The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

HOT TOPIC Are all online coaches scammers?

Accelerate wealth. Build a business that pays freedom. Join more than 70,000 entrepreneurs and register for the Fastlane Entrepreneur forum. Remove ads? Join the INSIDERS.

drahz

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 24, 2019
47
58
110
If only a coach would put in a statement like...

"If I just show up you will guarantee me X amount of dollars or I get all my money back"

...then I will be in!

Man, I think nobody said anything like that... you take too much personally... I was not referring to anyone when I created this post.

I was talking about measuring the progress of the mentee... let's put it this way... if someone pay someone else for the SEO... and the person providing SEO will not be able to make the website to rank better in 1 year... then is there still value for them here?

Depends about what is in the contract... if there is something like this... we will try our best to make you website rank, we are not guarantee ANYTHING, ONLY THAT WE TRY OUR BEST. You have to pay upfront $50k... and if it will not rank... we are sorry.

Compare to this one... We are good and we know it... You pay us $1000 every month... but if we can get you to the FIRST PAGE... you will pay us another $50k... WE CAN MEASURE THIS THING HERE. And also, we do the research upfront to see if there is a chance for us to rank your website (our experience)... and if there is a lot of AMAZING COMPANIES with AUTHORITY in the space... YOU ARE NOT OUR CUSTOMER.

I was just talking about... why many coaches are not CLEAR WITH THERE VALUE PROPOSITION... AND YET THEY STILL FOCUS ON A DESPERATE AUDIENCE PROMISING A LOT, GUARANTEE NOTHING.

I am not saying anybody can guarantee success... that is utter non-sense... but you will never see "landing page" talking clearly about this... only something like WE HAVE 1000s of HAPPY CLIENTS... 80% earn money in the first 4 moths... IF IT IS THAT GOOD... PUT GUARANTEE ON THAT AND YOU WILL SCALE YOUR COACHING THROUGH THE ROOF.
 

Andy Black

Making a nuisance of himself on Twitter
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
12,115
48,173
4,306
Ireland
Man, I think nobody said anything like that... you take too much personally... I was not referring to anyone when I created this post.

I was talking about measuring the progress of the mentee... let's put it this way... if someone pay someone else for the SEO... and the person providing SEO will not be able to make the website to rank better in 1 year... then is there still value for them here?

Depends about what is in the contract... if there is something like this... we will try our best to make you website rank, we are not guarantee ANYTHING, ONLY THAT WE TRY OUR BEST. You have to pay upfront $50k... and if it will not rank... we are sorry.

Compare to this one... We are good and we know it... You pay us $1000 every month... but if we can get you to the FIRST PAGE... you will pay us another $50k... WE CAN MEASURE THIS THING HERE. And also, we do the research upfront to see if there is a chance for us to rank your website (our experience)... and if there is a lot of AMAZING COMPANIES with AUTHORITY in the space... YOU ARE NOT OUR CUSTOMER.

I was just talking about... why many coaches are not CLEAR WITH THERE VALUE PROPOSITION... AND YET THEY STILL FOCUS ON A DESPERATE AUDIENCE PROMISING A LOT, GUARANTEE NOTHING.

I am not saying anybody can guarantee success... that is utter non-sense... but you will never see "landing page" talking clearly about this... only something like WE HAVE 1000s of HAPPY CLIENTS... 80% earn money in the first 4 moths... IF IT IS THAT GOOD... PUT GUARANTEE ON THAT AND YOU WILL SCALE YOUR COACHING THROUGH THE ROOF.
Are people even allowed to guarantee results in their sales pages?
 

Kak

Entrepreneurial Ambition and Economic Truth
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,402
32,456
4,554
Amerizuela
Mentoring should be about providing value first.

If a mentor is about PROVIDING VALUE (not chasing money) for the RIGHT audience (audience which is able to receive the value), then this mentor should be very careful about who can get in as a mentee.

The mentor should be EXTREMELY REPULSIVE IN THEIR MARKETING to people who do not possess something crucial for attaining success. And if someone passed the very strict filter by accident, they can get a refund, after all, it is a mentor's fault to let them in knowing they will not get anything out of it.

But for a mentor who is proactively searching for mentees by running ads, hardy filter anyone out. Promising money even without ANY SKILL, stating that ABSOLUTELY ANYONE can do it, ONLY THING WHICH IS REQUIRED IS HUNGER TO BE SUCCESSFUL... With a statement like this, anyone can get in and most of the people will not get results, and unfortunately, there is also NO REFUND policy (compared to majority products on the market).

If the mentor put a statement like this in their marketing:

I can personally mentor you and show you my way to success, but let me be clear first... If you are not willing to work as hard as I did (read 12+ hours a day including weekends)... and even if you do, there are certain conditions outside your control and you might not get successful as fast as I did... ONLY THING I CAN PROMISE TO YOU IS YOU WILL GET SOME GEMS HERE AND THERE from my course BECAUSE THERE IS NOT A TEMPLATE FOR SUCCESS... All just for $2497.

The mentor will get many more people (and money) on board with a first statement, but the majority will not get success. With the second statement, only very few can get on board, but none of them would even think about refund.

So, if the mentor is not chasing money, they should put a very clear message in their marketing and filter out people who are not able to get results. The problem is most of the mentors do not want to cut their profit, so they let anyone in, and LAZY / STUPID / WHATEVER people not satisfied with results cannot get their many back.

This about sums it up in my opinion. Repulsive in marketing... I think that makes the offer more real.

There are people that make empty promises and there are people that ultimately let the results speak for themselves.
 
Last edited:

Kak

Entrepreneurial Ambition and Economic Truth
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,402
32,456
4,554
Amerizuela
Are people allowed to guarantee results in their sales pages?

It depends, but something as fulid as being a coach, mentor or incubator leader... Guarantees are BS. Everyone has something different going on. It is an art not a science. There is no formula to apply and guarantee results.

I would say for folks that guarantee results... They just need to be ready to back it up financially. "Guaranteed OR (some kind of offer)."

I bought a Chrysler 300 in 2013... The dealership had "Warranty Forever" on the billboard... So I bought it from them instead of the other dealership. It had so many stipulations it was a total joke. Like a requirement to change tires every 20k miles, at the dealership. I don't even own that car now. LOL
 
D

DeletedUser0287

Guest
We purge scammers from the forum. He’s not one of them. Someday you are going to say something to somebody that will then end up teaching you a lesson you will never forget.

Well that is good that you purge scammers.

But...your last sentence. What do you specifically mean by your last statement? Sounds like a threat to be honest.
 

James Klymus

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 28, 2018
372
1,339
411
25
Chicago, Illinois
Of course there are some jerks who happen to be "coaches" that suck. Just like in any industry, there's crappy people.

But I'd like to believe (because I and others on this forum are this type of person) that there are people out there that are smart, and have dedicated a lot of time to a particular craft/trade, and are therefore qualified to speak and guide others. AND they also WANT to help people, not just make a buck any way they can.

If I just wanted to make a buck, I could sell widgets on amazon. I want to help people and improve lives through teaching people how to get in amazing shape.

You can't paint people with a broad brush, there's people like me and others on this forum that want to help because it feels good, and you can just so happen to make a good living doing it.

There are also people who see an easy opportunity to pull people's strings and manipulate them into buying a course or coaching program, because they know how their customers brains tick. So they can over promise and make an amazing offer that they wont deliver on.
 

James Klymus

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 28, 2018
372
1,339
411
25
Chicago, Illinois
I bought a Chrysler 300 in 2013... The dealership had "Warranty Forever" on the billboard... So I bought it from them instead of the other dealership. It had so many stipulations it was a total joke. Like a requirement to change tires every 20k miles, at the dealership. I don't even own that car now. LOL

Why the hell would any one in their right mind buy a Chrysler?

I'm teasing you, But i've owned 2 and they were unreliable crap compared to my toyota now. You'll need that warranty if you buy a chrysler
 

Kak

Entrepreneurial Ambition and Economic Truth
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,402
32,456
4,554
Amerizuela
Why the hell would any one in their right mind buy a Chrysler?

I'm teasing you, But i've owned 2 and they were unreliable crap compared to my toyota now. You'll need that warranty if you buy a chrysler

I would buy that new Jeep Gladiator!

LOL It didn't help the reliability that I crashed it like 2 months after I bought it. Even the factory warranty wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I paid out of pocket for 2/3 of the things that went wrong with it.

It was a cool car at the time! It was the first of the new body style. I got black and chrome. Like an old school town car. Got a lot of compliments for maybe 18 months. I was also lobbying a lot, so American pride BRO! It was a very inoffensive car.

3 years in... I was getting pulled over by every other cop that saw me... Draw your own conclusions on that.

Now I have an S class that is going to make people think they should bill me more and an OLD Suburban that will make people think I am broke. :rofl:
 
Last edited:

James Klymus

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Dec 28, 2018
372
1,339
411
25
Chicago, Illinois
3 years in... I was getting pulled over by every other cop that saw me... Draw your own conclusions on that.

Hahaha 300's are popular targets for police. I had 2 chargers, fun and fast, but made like crap

Now I have an S class that is going to make people think they should bill me more and an OLD Suburban that will make people think I am broke.

Ah yes, balance
 

seb451

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Apr 9, 2020
43
48
107
Chile
So, if the mentor is not chasing money, they should put a very clear message in their marketing and filter out people who are not able to get results. The problem is most of the mentors do not want to cut their profit, so they let anyone in, and LAZY / STUPID / WHATEVER people not satisfied with results cannot get their many back.

Most producers are not willing to cut their profit.

I think at the end of the day they are offering a product, they are probably concerned about providing real value and also making money. I'd say mentoring is a different thing because is long-term process and mostly altruistic, while these offerings are often standarized courses (with a bit of interaction) which are almost the same for everyone . That doesn't mean it can't help, they could be offering valuable information to develop a business in a specific area such as real state, dropshipping, ecommerce, etcetera. Things that someone could find useful instead of having to research it from scratch. Also they may be available to talk with you once in a while to offer some tips and track your progress (which is not a bad thing considering they have some decent expertise in the field you want to enter)

As most products it won't put a huge filter for people who want to buy it, and if they say anyone can do it is actually true, if its supposed that if someone is spending a decent amount of money on it they will put the proper effort in order to achieve the results they want. Likewise universities, virtually anyone can put money on a career and expect brilliant results in the end but it ultimately depends on one's efforts. There are many opportunities in life wich can give or not give results but that doesn't make it a scam, it is up to the consumer if the value perceived is worth the price.
 
D

DeletedUser0287

Guest
If only a coach would put in a statement like...

"If I just show up you will guarantee me X amount of dollars or I get all my money back"

...then I will be in!

I mean if they are a good coach they will definitely do this yet?

lol

No one owes you anything and this thread has some of the laziest thinking around.
Yes some coaches are a scam.
No not every single person involved in teaching ever is a con artist.

There is a middle ground and if you can't see it then you are going to be the person who gets scammed.

If you guys can't even bother checking this forums own marketplace for coaching programs AND feedback left by many coaches and 100s of student over the last few years then best of luck.

Are there any unbiased reviews I can get though?
 

Andy Black

Making a nuisance of himself on Twitter
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
12,115
48,173
4,306
Ireland
There's a gold thread on how to identify different types of gurus.
Can you link to that please @Lex DeVille? I may need to check through it and make sure I don’t have any of those signatures when I start running ads.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 25, 2007
7,696
36,258
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
No it does not mean spaghetti method. It means doing your due diligence for each product as much as possible and if it fails, learn why, and execute again.

All knowledge I see are the same as all the other “Amazon courses.” I have seen examples of what he does for product development and they are incredibly low barrier products.

I am not a fan of the strategy, but I guess a lot of people are here: Bullding a business to sell, but not a long term one. New business owner stuck with a business with faulty foundation. But who cares right? You sold out...

Well, it's too bad that he got deleted before I could reply to him. I'm sure he doesn't know more than 10% of what I do, but that is fine. Too bad he was here for so long and never learned anything.

To be honest, during my mentor course, due to budgets of my clients, we had limits on what we could do in terms of launching products. If someone only has $5-$10k to launch, we are very limited on product development.

The ironic thing is that Morevalue trashes the $8k price and then says that you could have tried 8-10 products with $8k. LOL. Who is launching the shitty products now?

The reason I don't offer my mentoring anymore now is because I don't feel that I can successfully mentor people to launch on Amazon in 2020 within their lower budgets. You almost need $25k-$50k to get off the ground now as most sellers are now entrenched with many reviews and years of selling account weight. A new seller would have to put alot of time and money to get a foothold. It's more about brand building than launching products now.
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
32,103
121,523
3,751
Fountain Hills, AZ
Side note...

It's not often I get an email that states "Delete my account" which I don't question.

And can't do fast enough.

I wish him *luck* which I'm guessing he believes, most of success is.
 

Kak

Entrepreneurial Ambition and Economic Truth
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jan 23, 2011
7,402
32,456
4,554
Amerizuela
Side note...

It's not often I get an email that states "Delete my account" which I don't question.

And can't do fast enough.

I wish him *luck* which I'm guessing he believes, most of success is.

And just like that he leaves? LOL Wow!
 

Mike Partee

(Formerly UnrealCreative)
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Sep 20, 2016
887
4,147
996
24
San Juan
Glad that loser's gone. But back on topic.

@drahz – to answer your question, I don't see coaches in general as scammers.

That said, I've rarely had a use for getting one.

You're paying a coach to give you a third person's perspective on any number of problems you have; Perspective that can be gained from tons of alternative sources...good books, trusted friends, business associates, you get the idea.

If you're looking for a "lightbulb moment," where something clicks for you – paying someone on retainer to do that for you is just odd, IMO.

But this is my personal experience.

The best "coaches" were figures in my life who never realized they were coaches in the first place. These guys are my heroes. They've "coached" me in ways they will probably never know, and it didn't cost a dime...
 

lludwig

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 18, 2018
445
1,207
361
New York
Oh boy here it goes.

I sold my business 2 years ago. It was an affiliate marketing blog and sold it for $6M (see other threads on here by me for more detail).

I think I have some clue about digital marketing, affiliate marketing, SEO and CRO. I think many businesses need help in said spaces. They are struggling and IMHO can use help, or specifically my help.

Why not do it through coaching, courses, and consulting?

Are these not legit methods to help other businesses?

To put everyone who offers these in the scam category is doing a disservice to themselves and others.

I'm certainly not in the camp of 'faking till I make it' and don't care if you think I'm a scammer. I've achieved much in my life and not interested in trying to change your view of the world. You are long gone but there are people that DO want to help and see the value I can add to their business.

I've been doing this type of work for over 25 years now. I'm at a point financially and life where I'm doing it more to leave a legacy to help others. I like helping other businesses succeed, I want to see other business owners achieve success. Especially now where business owners have been shit on. Either because of local municipalities blocking them because of COVID or because of riots destroying their business.

Is that a bad thing I want to help entrepreneurs?

Should I do it for free? I say no for a number of reasons.

One is if you offer something for free people don't respect it, plus I've spent years developing my craft and should get paid for the time and research spent doing this. You are paying for a shortcut to avoid mistakes in your business.

I do think there are many 'gurus' (cough Tai Lopez) that only burn a hole in your pocket.

Though everyone could use help improving their business, why not take some guidance from a course? It is certainly much cheaper than one-on-one consulting.

The problem is how do you weed out the bad coaches? I don't have an easy answer to that but what I'm doing is weeding out the bad customers. Which I really didn't see discussed.

In my case, to weed out the 'wannapreurs', I'm targeting a customer base who already have an established business. Quite frankly, I've seen many here on this very forum who are 'wannapreurs'. Who at least read MJ's book, but don't do anything about it. They will keep doing the action faking but yet not building a business.

I have no interest in helping beginners at this moment via courses, coaching, or consulting. I will do it via articles on my blog though. Targeting courses to that market is a crowded market and is filled with crappy products which many are all-flash. So they will react to the fancy sports car and the lavish home.
 
Last edited:

100ToOne

Silver Contributor
Speedway Pass
Jul 1, 2018
336
658
263
"Success is nothing more than a few simple disciplines, practiced every day." Jim Rohn

We can find a way to make money using the internet/offline for free but we usually don't have the will to practice it everyday.

And just like everywhere, there are scammers and there are legit. The scammers are more though.
 

drahz

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 24, 2019
47
58
110
I think I have some clue about digital marketing, affiliate marketing, SEO and CRO. I think many businesses need help in said spaces. They are struggling and IMHO can use help, or specifically my help.

Why not do it through coaching, courses, and consulting?

Are these not legit methods to help other businesses?

To put everyone who offers these in the scam category is doing a disservice to themselves and others.

I'm certainly not in the camp of 'faking till I make it' and don't care if you think I'm a scammer. I've achieved much in my life and not interested in trying to change your view of the world. You are long gone but there are people that DO want to help and see the value I can add to their business.

I've been doing this type of work for over 25 years now. I'm at a point financially and life where I'm doing it more to leave a legacy to help others. I like helping other businesses succeed, I want to see other business owners achieve success. Especially now where business owners have been shit on. Either because of local municipalities blocking them because of COVID or because of riots destroying their business.

Is that a bad thing I want to help entrepreneurs?

Should I do it for free? I say no for a number of reasons.

One is if you offer something for free people don't respect it, plus I've spent years developing my craft and should get paid for the time and research spent doing this. You are paying for a shortcut to avoid mistakes in your business.

I would never call you or anyone else a scammer who is clearly communicating value through marketing.

You DO NOT HAVE TO (and you should not actually) do anything for free if you have expertise to really help people
. To be honest I know that I put very "clickbaity" type of headline for this topic, and yes not everyone is a scammer obviously.

I have nothing against courses (I bought couple of them and NEVER REFUND any of them) which are clearly communicating what you get.

For example someone's marketing... (1) I have 20 million followers on Instagram and for $10k I can give you shout-out.

Second one... (2) I have 20 million followers on Instagram and for $10k I can MAKE YOU FAMOUS by shouting out your account.

They seems very similar but (1) is promising only shout out (they can put guarantee on that even 200% back). On the other hand (2) is promising to MAKE SOMEONE FAMOUS (well they will be careful about guarantees this time)

(2) is a SCAM for someone who will not become famous... because for someone to be famous on Instagram in the end is about THEM, their content, how likeable they are, etc. Unfortunately (2) is taking advantage of some people out there.

Actually I was not even looking for a course to get... I just find about Coffeezilla channel... and got quite disgusted about some "gurus" out there.
 
Last edited:

Andy Black

Making a nuisance of himself on Twitter
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
12,115
48,173
4,306
Ireland

drahz

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jul 24, 2019
47
58
110

Yes, if people receive something for free, many times they do not value it... but before you scream I gotcha...

People love to spend money on things they see value in (you can see it on people buying habits)... BUT if someone sell dogs and delivering cats (or vice versa)... they will not really appreciate "value" this time (even though there are many cat (dog) lovers out there)
 

YoungPadawan

Miles to go before I sleep
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Nov 7, 2015
471
1,248
374
28
Well that is good that you purge scammers.

But...your last sentence. What do you specifically mean by your last statement? Sounds like a threat to be honest.
It's not a threat... It's a promise.
 

Bearcorp

Gold Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Jul 2, 2012
639
1,499
434
37
Australia
Side note...

It's not often I get an email that states "Delete my account" which I don't question.

And can't do fast enough.

I wish him *luck* which I'm guessing he believes, most of success is.

Told him on another thread last week he needs to shut up on here and do more listening/reading, not surprised to see how this has turned out. He’ll be back soon enough with a new name, but likely the same shitty attitude.
 

zblundell

Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Oct 2, 2019
64
53
49
Hi there,

Recently I was watching videos on Coffeezilla youtube channel and it got me thinking... are all "online gurus" scammers? Actually, it was nothing new to me that there are many online "entrepreneurs" coaching and mentoring people for money, promising the results which X% of people can easiliy achieve, if and only if they do the hard work and follow the process to the point.

The problem is that their value proposition is a bit weird... they will sell you the HIGH TICKET course (couple of thousand bucks) and they will promise you, actually they do not really guarantee anything, that you can get let's say $1000 M.R.R. in 6-9 months if you follow their process.

The problem is... if the coaches out there really stand for what they are teaching their value proposition should be... I will personally mentor you for 1 year and I know my stats -> 75% of people following my teachings can get at least $1000 / month in 6 months -> If you follow my process (and YOU CAN PROVE IT by giving me reports every week or month or something) and you will not achieve the results I am saying you will achieve, then I will give you all your money back - that is my guarantee.

There are countless times said... if you are selling your service or product you should at least 10x your value for the customer (compared to a product already in the market) to cut through the noise and get noticed. So if someone puts value proposition above with a money-back guarantee and they will refund only 25% customers (because their success rate is 75%) they still can get a very profitable business (and more clients as well).

What I think is very shady about many coaches and mentors out there:

* If they have profitable business themself, why they want to bring others to space, teach them a "secret" and make a competition for themself... For example, someone teaching about how to make 6 figures e-commerce, instead of building another one for themself (they can outsource almost everything).
...Or for example, someone teaching how to sell websites to the companies charging 20k per website... while they can build a software company, scale it, make a brand, hire people and step out of the process and still get a lot of money (Fastlane).
...Why to put the effort into building a course, mentoring people instead of scaling a company? - and this mentoring thing is more like a job because a mentor has to spend time with mentees and once the mentees know a thing they are gone and do it by themself - no money for the coach anymore.

* I think a successful mentor actively searching for mentees is quite a weird thing...did you ever see any executive from fortune 500 company begging for a mentee?... I was once watching an interview with some very successful Silicon Valley CEOs talking about getting business partners and mentors... and they said it starts as a common interest and friendship, it is not based on business transactions like give me money and I will coach you how to be successful (those successful people do not need to waste their precious time for getting scrape money).

* If somebody compares this mentoring thing to a let's say UDEMY course than it is not the same thing... If someone teaches you about copywriting or marketing and sales but they will only guarantee you knowledge but they will not be promising you any money as result... then I think they will not be able to get desperate people on board (wanting results more than knowledge) and also I do not think they will be able to sell it for a couple of thousands... SO IF THEY MARKET THEIR COACHING SERVICE AS A WAY TO GET MONEY... THEY SHOULD GUARANTEE THE MONEY AT THE END OF THE COURSE... THE SAME WAY AS UDEMY COURSE ABOUT PHOTOSHOP WILL GUARANTEE YOU THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW TO WORK WITH LAYERS. If there is a bit of luck involved in the process, then they should market their product as such and see if they still can get so many people on board.

So, to make a summary... why if some couch out there which does not want to be perceived as a scammer, will not put an amazing value proposition with a money-back guarantee for their mentees. And as I said above, you can always find a way how to track the progress of people, IT IS A MENTORING AFTER ALL... think about the milestones similar to UPWORK, there is a way for sure to filter out people who do not want to work (no money back guarantee for them).

...BUT if there is not a money-back guarantee, actually not guarantee at all, then I think it screams a SCAM. They should sell the CRASH COURSE TO COPYWRITING or SALES 101 instead... not mentioning any money at all.

What is your view on all of this "online coaching" thing?
I actually like Alex Berman. His YouTube channel seems legit and genuine. He is not advertising courses or anything that I have watched so far.
 

Walter Hay

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Speedway Pass
Sep 13, 2014
2,960
12,033
2,453
World citizen
When people teach especially in terms of business, it is a sign of failure or their current business isn’t doing well so they need an extra income source. Is this the type of person you want to learn from?
This is without a doubt one of the most stupid and totally unsupportable statements I have read. Without access to their financial records or news reports about such a failure, (if it happened) the idiotic statement was plucked out of thin air.
One is if you offer something for free people don't respect it, plus I've spent years developing my craft and should get paid for the time and research spent doing this. You are paying for a shortcut to avoid mistakes in your business.
Agreed. I found early on in my chemical business that when I gave out free samples they just gathered dust. When I charged for them, usually supplying at a heavily discounted price, they were used, most often leading to a sale.

The foundation behind what I have written in my three business books is:

Twenty years operating a business that I started from zero, including Nine years exporting my own products. Every customer I got was already buying from competitors. I gained a near monopoly. Sold business for 7 figures.

Twenty two years importing and B2B marketing. Captured the Australian market from an entrenched competitor who owned 90% of the market. Sold franchises in 4 countries to allow scaling.

Finally, this teacher/ coach/ mentor/Guru(?) gives away a huge amount of helpful stuff. Search my posts. You might find the one where I quote a Fastlane member who thanked me for saving him $3,000.

Walter
P.S. To those who only want freebies: I will continue to charge for my books containing those years of experience.
 

johnmgr

Contributor
Jun 5, 2020
19
20
14
Araure, Venezuela
Hi there,

Recently I was watching videos on Coffeezilla youtube channel and it got me thinking... are all "online gurus" scammers? Actually, it was nothing new to me that there are many online "entrepreneurs" coaching and mentoring people for money, promising the results which X% of people can easiliy achieve, if and only if they do the hard work and follow the process to the point.

The problem is that their value proposition is a bit weird... they will sell you the HIGH TICKET course (couple of thousand bucks) and they will promise you, actually they do not really guarantee anything, that you can get let's say $1000 M.R.R. in 6-9 months if you follow their process.

The problem is... if the coaches out there really stand for what they are teaching their value proposition should be... I will personally mentor you for 1 year and I know my stats -> 75% of people following my teachings can get at least $1000 / month in 6 months -> If you follow my process (and YOU CAN PROVE IT by giving me reports every week or month or something) and you will not achieve the results I am saying you will achieve, then I will give you all your money back - that is my guarantee.

There are countless times said... if you are selling your service or product you should at least 10x your value for the customer (compared to a product already in the market) to cut through the noise and get noticed. So if someone puts value proposition above with a money-back guarantee and they will refund only 25% customers (because their success rate is 75%) they still can get a very profitable business (and more clients as well).

What I think is very shady about many coaches and mentors out there:

* If they have profitable business themself, why they want to bring others to space, teach them a "secret" and make a competition for themself... For example, someone teaching about how to make 6 figures e-commerce, instead of building another one for themself (they can outsource almost everything).
...Or for example, someone teaching how to sell websites to the companies charging 20k per website... while they can build a software company, scale it, make a brand, hire people and step out of the process and still get a lot of money (Fastlane).
...Why to put the effort into building a course, mentoring people instead of scaling a company? - and this mentoring thing is more like a job because a mentor has to spend time with mentees and once the mentees know a thing they are gone and do it by themself - no money for the coach anymore.

* I think a successful mentor actively searching for mentees is quite a weird thing...did you ever see any executive from fortune 500 company begging for a mentee?... I was once watching an interview with some very successful Silicon Valley CEOs talking about getting business partners and mentors... and they said it starts as a common interest and friendship, it is not based on business transactions like give me money and I will coach you how to be successful (those successful people do not need to waste their precious time for getting scrape money).

* If somebody compares this mentoring thing to a let's say UDEMY course than it is not the same thing... If someone teaches you about copywriting or marketing and sales but they will only guarantee you knowledge but they will not be promising you any money as result... then I think they will not be able to get desperate people on board (wanting results more than knowledge) and also I do not think they will be able to sell it for a couple of thousands... SO IF THEY MARKET THEIR COACHING SERVICE AS A WAY TO GET MONEY... THEY SHOULD GUARANTEE THE MONEY AT THE END OF THE COURSE... THE SAME WAY AS UDEMY COURSE ABOUT PHOTOSHOP WILL GUARANTEE YOU THE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW TO WORK WITH LAYERS. If there is a bit of luck involved in the process, then they should market their product as such and see if they still can get so many people on board.

So, to make a summary... why if some couch out there which does not want to be perceived as a scammer, will not put an amazing value proposition with a money-back guarantee for their mentees. And as I said above, you can always find a way how to track the progress of people, IT IS A MENTORING AFTER ALL... think about the milestones similar to UPWORK, there is a way for sure to filter out people who do not want to work (no money back guarantee for them).

...BUT if there is not a money-back guarantee, actually not guarantee at all, then I think it screams a SCAM. They should sell the CRASH COURSE TO COPYWRITING or SALES 101 instead... not mentioning any money at all.

What is your view on all of this "online coaching" thing?

I also follow Cofizilla, and most of those gurus don't actually have a "return policy" they say they'll give you your money back, but they always have an excuse and keep the money.

In this case, everyone and their mother are trying to make money fast, and thanks to a psychological phenomenon known as vicarious experience, when people see these gurus, and what they're showing, they think "I can also get the Lamborgini or that mansion. He did it, and now he's going to tell me what to do" and that's actually their pitch.

They're not in the business they say they are, they're in the business of selling a lifestyle, and the course or whatever they sell is the way to have that lifestyle. "buy my s#!@% and you'll live like me"

I think the answer can be found in UNSCRIPTED . Is like the example of that city full of restaurants. Everyone is trying to open a restaurant (being an entrepreneur) but instead of selling restaurant supplies or real estate, these fake gurus are selling a PDF on how to open a restaurant with only ten dishes that sell like crazy, and if you want more money from the restaurant you don't have, buy this other course

And since people are desperate, and want proven formulas, they're willing to pay the fake gurus.

I also think this distinction is important, I believe there are real "gurus", people that walked the road and see the potential in the training industry; is just that there are way more fake gurus than real ones. At least that's what I believe.
 

Datingafter35

New Contributor
Feb 2, 2016
64
17
20
46
Just to be clear, I have nothing against coaching at all. If some coach tells upfront I WILL NOT COACH ANYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE BUSINESS ALREADY that is perfectly clear and OK.

My point is if someone is talking to the audience where there are people with no businesses at all, and they try to coach people to START FROM $0 to $1000, then they should EITHER GUARANTEE SOMETHING (as I said only if the mentees proof their work) OR TRY TO FOCUS ON ANOTHER AUDIENCE.



Agree, but then there should not be a coach, who is coaching everyone from homeless to someone earning $100 000 000 per year. And there is a better chance that someone not earning anything at all, not even $1000, is gonna be more desperate and falling for a scam than someone earning $100+ mil a year. And someone with $100+ mil is not gonna really feel the loss of $10k for a course as much as someone with no income.



As I said, there should not be ONE COACH for all levels out there.



Agree, books are wonderful coaches. Actually I am not really frustrated about it and not looking for UDEMY courses about how to get rich :)... Anyway, my referring was only to someone claiming to JUST FOLLOW THIS PROCESS AND YOU CAN GET $100k A YEAR.

Clearly, the audience for the person stating things above is not audience where there are entrepreneurs earning millions upon millions bucks per year, but people earning little to nothing.

Hey. I have one like that. But I don't want to get in trouble with cftc as I want to deal with English speaking audience not 3rd world.

I have a challenge I did for myself for the recent 3 months and I've been able to churn out 10% on each money on borrowed money trading forex.

I sucked at it that's why I I took 14 years. Now I'm gaining progress my adhd brain wants to venture into online marketing as trading is still a job. Not passive.

21 business days challenge. 10% in profits end of the challenge. Can't achieve. Full money back. Cost price $1999.

What must I prepare to ensure they get it? I can do it but I'm not sure how they will.

Who must I screen to get them on the challenge?
 

Sponsored Offers

MARKETPLACE Fox Web School "Legend" Group Coaching Program 2021
Any update? Hey bud! When I can squeeze out the time to work, it's been going pretty well...
MARKETPLACE Not sure how to start? This free book will teach you how to build a successful web design business
Hi Fox. Starting the book and got through the introduction. Had a conversation with Andy Black...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE NEW: The Best School for Going Fastlane (Now open for summer enrollment)
For any web designers struggling to sell it is hardly ever about competition with other web...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE You Are One Call Away From Living Your Dream Life - LightHouse’s Accountability Program ⚡
Chris is super sharp and is aware of many facets of entrepreneurship and can help get your...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Lex DeVille's - Advanced Freelance Udemy Courses!
This month's promo code is MINDCONTROL Those who are subscribed to my new Youtube channel will...
  • Sticky
MARKETPLACE Entrepreneur's Toolbox: Company Formation, Virtual Mailbox, Registered Agent, Remote Online Notary
Appreciating the transparency and lack of hidden fees. The website is very up-front and user...
Introducing MJ's Personal Unscripted Network, Join Now for FREE!
Any chance to make it available outside of US? It has been available outside of the US on...

Forum Sponsor

Learn Fastlane Business Skills & Get Profitable Within 30 Days...

Get Started Now

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom