Anonymous review site to bring light to a shady industry.

[sonny_1080]

Apologies for the long-winded-ness... I've basically just been journaling my thoughts.

Any feedback is welcome.

 

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[sonny_1080]

After talking directly with the market this past year and give it what it wants, I drafted quick plan on the changes that need to be made in order in to get it done.

#1: Need to be able to track which users call which service providers.

I already had GA4 linked up to the site and an event triggering for each time a phone call link is clicked. However, the specifics of who was clicked and by whom was not there. This week I figured out how to segment where the link the was clicked (page_title); and I learned how to create user ID custom definitions in GA4 so I can track data per user. Then I can correlate user ID's with used info submitted to the site upon registration (names and phone numbers) so I can call them up and see if they ended up using a service provider who I can THEN make my offer to (pay to continue getting people, or nah).

Problem: my visitors can call without logging in. Which leads me to step #2...

#2: Get everybody to login before they can call a service provider.

Trying to make the UI/UX as seamless as possible, I just created a staging site where I can add in the login gate that triggers up clicking an archive listing.

More updates soon.

 

[sonny_1080]

Launched new update that makes sure users have to be logged in before they interact with the site.

Analytics stopped working for some reason and I got tied up with life stuff that distracted me.

Got fed up with my job and while browsing new job opportunities this morning I decided to check in with the forum (been like 3 months) and came across @Lex DeVille 's thread.

It simultaneously made me feel very stupid for making so little progress these past 2 years, but it also motivated me to stop looking for a new job and use the dissatisfaction from my current job to motivate me to make this thing work.

Reached out to a couple people to help with the conversion tracking stuff this morning. Hopefully I hear back from one of them and if not, then I'll just tinker with it this weekend.

 

[Andy Black]

Launched new update that makes sure users have to be logged in before they interact with the site.

Analytics stopped working for some reason and I got tied up with life stuff that distracted me.

Got fed up with my job and while browsing new job opportunities this morning I decided to check in with the forum (been like 3 months) and came across @Lex DeVille 's thread.

It simultaneously made me feel very stupid for making so little progress these past 2 years, but it also motivated me to stop looking for a new job and use the dissatisfaction from my current job to motivate me to make this thing work.

Reached out to a couple people to help with the conversion tracking stuff this morning. Hopefully I hear back from one of them and if not, then I'll just tinker with it this weekend.

@FastNAwesome does our conversion tracking.

 

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[BizyDad]

Launched new update that makes sure users have to be logged in before they interact with the site.

Analytics stopped working for some reason and I got tied up with life stuff that distracted me.

Got fed up with my job and while browsing new job opportunities this morning I decided to check in with the forum (been like 3 months) and came across @Lex DeVille 's thread.

It simultaneously made me feel very stupid for making so little progress these past 2 years, but it also motivated me to stop looking for a new job and use the dissatisfaction from my current job to motivate me to make this thing work.

Reached out to a couple people to help with the conversion tracking stuff this morning. Hopefully I hear back from one of them and if not, then I'll just tinker with it this weekend.

I'm glad you're back, engaged, and getting after this again.

 

[Andy Black]

Where are you at with this project @sonny_1080?

Are you making sales?

What needs to happen for this to replace your j.o.b?

 

[sonny_1080]

@FastNAwesome does our conversion tracking.

I DM'd him

 

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[sonny_1080]

I'm glad you're back, engaged, and getting after this again.

thank you

 

[sonny_1080]

Where are you at with this project @sonny_1080?

Are you making sales?

What needs to happen for this to replace your j.o.b?

so long story short... no. im not making sales.




this is the quarter-to-date metrics.

$0 in ad spend and no marketing efforts at all.

just organic search.

couple new registrations and a couple new reviews.

to monetize i needed to change the user flow of the website to monitor any results that are actually generated for the buyer.

those user flow changes have been made, and in the process the conversion tracking in GA4 hiccup'd so once i fix this, i can start to reach out to propsects and say "hey, this person reached out to you, if you'd like to continue using this service click the link to pay" - basically.

once i get to that point i can accumulate some data to see if this worth continuing.

 

[sonny_1080]

Anybody have any advice on how to contract a SEO guy to build my site's audience? Should I hire a freelancer on fiverr? Ideally, I'd like to hire someone overseas who will do a good job, but all I've ever used is fiverr... which I could do again, but I'd want something a bit more ongoing. Hence, contractors. Idk if they're the same thing.

I did some traveling for a couple months and when I got back I couldn't keep telemarketing so I started looking for a new job. I landed a sales job for a manufacturing company where I'd be wholesaling. Because of my experiences (a.k.a. "failures") with running Google Ads, copywriting, web design, sales, graphic design, managing people, analyzing financials, etc, I demonstrated so much value at this place that within 3 weeks my salary was doubled. It's been 5 months and I've been promoted to General Manager. I'm making more money than I ever have which is cool, but I because of that depression I went through in 2022 to the beginning of this year, I racked up over $20,000 in credit card debt. My paycheck comes and goes to paying that down immediately. By month 6 at this new job, all of that debt will be paid off.

However, I am still tied to the slowlane. I can be terminated at any time. But I still have this website. I changed the business model from PPC (or whatever it was I don't remember I changed it so many times) to just putting AdSense on it, which was something I was adamantly against these last couple years because I didn't want to "sell out." Whatever, lol. I'm just gonna keep it simple - it's like "rate my professors" but for sober living homes so people can make informed decisions about where to start their journey in recovery.

Fixed some hiccups on the platform and got some ads on there. Still have the upgraded listing for operators, but that's not my focus. I've accepted this is gonna be a long-game of building a community and a huge audience before I make any decent revenue. So now that I have a functioning platform that does what I say it does, I need to market it aggressively.

Problem is, I don't have the time, energy, nor the desire to be a digital marketer anymore. I'd rather spend my time running this manufacturing company and use the money I make to contract an SEO person to bring people to the site.

I'm probably in the hole like $15,000 with this thing by now and the only revenue it has generated is the $0.34 in the last 7 days from the AdSense. So I guess my plan is:

1. Contract SEO guy
2. Build manufacturing company while SEO guy increases site audience
3. Pray that bigger audience = more revenue

Totally open to suggestions.

 

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[Andy Black]

Anybody have any advice on how to contract a SEO guy to build my site's audience? Should I hire a freelancer on fiverr? Ideally, I'd like to hire someone overseas who will do a good job, but all I've ever used is fiverr... which I could do again, but I'd want something a bit more ongoing. Hence, contractors. Idk if they're the same thing.

I did some traveling for a couple months and when I got back I couldn't keep telemarketing so I started looking for a new job. I landed a sales job for a manufacturing company where I'd be wholesaling. Because of my experiences (a.k.a. "failures") with running Google Ads, copywriting, web design, sales, graphic design, managing people, analyzing financials, etc, I demonstrated so much value at this place that within 3 weeks my salary was doubled. It's been 5 months and I've been promoted to General Manager. I'm making more money than I ever have which is cool, but I because of that depression I went through in 2022 to the beginning of this year, I racked up over $20,000 in credit card debt. My paycheck comes and goes to paying that down immediately. By month 6 at this new job, all of that debt will be paid off.

However, I am still tied to the slowlane. I can be terminated at any time. But I still have this website. I changed the business model from PPC (or whatever it was I don't remember I changed it so many times) to just putting AdSense on it, which was something I was adamantly against these last couple years because I didn't want to "sell out." Whatever, lol. I'm just gonna keep it simple - it's like "rate my professors" but for sober living homes so people can make informed decisions about where to start their journey in recovery.

Fixed some hiccups on the platform and got some ads on there. Still have the upgraded listing for operators, but that's not my focus. I've accepted this is gonna be a long-game of building a community and a huge audience before I make any decent revenue. So now that I have a functioning platform that does what I say it does, I need to market it aggressively.

Problem is, I don't have the time, energy, nor the desire to be a digital marketer anymore. I'd rather spend my time running this manufacturing company and use the money I make to contract an SEO person to bring people to the site.

I'm probably in the hole like $15,000 with this thing by now and the only revenue it has generated is the $0.34 in the last 7 days from the AdSense. So I guess my plan is:

1. Contract SEO guy
2. Build manufacturing company while SEO guy increases site audience
3. Pray that bigger audience = more revenue

Totally open to suggestions.

Swap the word "failures" for "experience".

Well done getting that job and doubling your salary.

Get that debt paid off. Give yourself a pat on the back every time you pay down a chunk.

Maybe put your website idea on hold for the moment? What if you focused 100% on the job and made yourself more and more valuable? You'll grow in confidence and I'm sure fastlane opportunities will start presenting themselves over time.

 

[sonny_1080]

Swap the word "failures" for "experience".

Well done getting that job and doubling your salary.

Get that debt paid off. Give yourself a pat on the back every time you pay down a chunk.

Maybe out your website idea on hold for the moment? What if you focused 100% on the job and made yourself more and more valuable? You'll grow in confidence and I'm sure fastlane opportunities will start presenting themselves over time.

Really?

I mean… if I can have my website produce some revenue passively, isn’t that the right way to go? And since I have the money to hire somebody now who can do it better than I, shouldn’t I?

 

[Andy Black]

Really?

I mean… if I can have my website produce some revenue passively, isn’t that the right way to go? And since I have the money to hire somebody now who can do it better than I, shouldn’t I?

It depends on how much it will cost to produce this passive revenue, and how much passive revenue it will bring.

Maybe do some maths.

What search terms do you want to rank for?

How many visitors might you get if you ranked number 1 for those search terms?

Who's running ads for those searches on Google?

How are they monetising those visitors? Would they pay to also appear on organic results (via Adsense)?

How many visitors do you need to earn decent money from Adsense?


I can't remember, but what were the reasons you weren't profitable with this before?

 

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[BizyDad]

Really?

I mean… if I can have my website produce some revenue passively, isn’t that the right way to go? And since I have the money to hire somebody now who can do it better than I, shouldn’t I?

Please don't hire anyone. This idea of yours doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Andy Black]

Please don't hire anyone. This idea of yours doesn't seem to be working.

Bizydad said what's on my mind. Drop it for now and focus on your job? You're doing something valuable enough for people to pay you.

 

[sonny_1080]

Please don't hire anyone. This idea of yours doesn't seem to be working.

Finally somebody said it.

One more stupid question so I don’t have to think about it anymore… why do you say it’s not working?

It’s a community. It serves a purpose. People write reviews. The only monetization that seems to be working is ads and that revenue will increase as traffic goes up. Not a single dollar has been spent on marketing yet so the audience is super small.

 

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[sonny_1080]

It depends on how much it will cost to produce this passive revenue, and how much passive revenue it will bring.

Maybe do some maths.

What search terms do you want to rank for?

How many visitors might you get if you ranked number 1 for those search terms?

Who's running ads for those searches on Google?

How are they monetising those visitors? Would they pay to also appear on organic results (via Adsense)?

How many visitors do you need to earn decent money from Adsense?


I can't remember, but what were the reasons you weren't profitable with this before?

I tried to sell upgraded listings to operators and nobody bought them.

 

[Andy Black]

Finally somebody said it.

One more stupid question so I don’t have to think about it anymore… why do you say it’s not working?

It’s a community. It serves a purpose. People write reviews. The only monetization that seems to be working is ads and that revenue will increase as traffic goes up. Not a single dollar has been spent on marketing yet so the audience is super small.

Did you go through the Maths exercise I mentioned above? It's not our place to tell you what to do, but we can help you decide for yourself.

 

[Andy Black]

why do you say it’s not working?

It's not working because you're not making enough revenue and profit.

It doesn't mean there isn't something there, but surely there's something that's a better product-founder and product-market fit?

What if you focused on your job, got exceptional at something, and turned that skill into a fastlane?

It feels like you're married to an idea, and one that you're passionate about. It seems like the market isn't that keen to spend money.

As Derek Siver says in his great little book "Anything You Want":

"If it's not a hit, switch."

Is there any sunk-cost fallacy here?

 

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[BizyDad]

This sounds like one of those situations where you might be providing value, but you are not providing enough value that people will pay for.

That means your only revenue stream will be ads.

If you want to make money on ad revenue, you're going to need tens of thousands of people. In order to get tens of thousands of people, you're probably going to spend a decent amount of money on SEO.

Unless you really know what you're doing, the return on investment probably won't be there.

My other concern is that any SEO will tell you they can help you get traffic, but SEOs are not often experts and ads. And the ones who are, are usually building their own properties and don't take clients. So getting the right kind of help will be pretty difficult for you to sift through since you don't know the lingo.

I think there are other business models that will work out better for you. Maybe you can come back to this one in the long run. I have a couple of business ideas like that. I wasn't able to execute on them back in the day, but maybe someday in the future I'll be able to pull it together.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Imo, a business is only worth investing in if it makes you at least enough money to finance the bare minimum of living. If your business can't replace a minimum wage job in 1-2 months, that's a sucky business and you should shut it down.

What you generally see is 100 sucky businesses, and 1 becomes a giant success, and everyone looks at that giant success and tries to mimic it. That's a$$-backwards.

A real, first-time business, should make solid income from the get-go. If it doesn't close it.

I think it took James Jani 2 months to start bringing in solid cash with his YouTube channel. And that's a VERY hard business to start and make profitable so fast (even this is a massive understatement).

People call me a money-chaser but in my mind it's all about the money. If it's making money, that's what matters. F*ck the value. If you're making money, especially in a sustainable way, you're doing something right. Business isn't charity.

My advice to you is stop providing value, and look around at people who are making money, and do what they do. Copy them first. Make cash. Then improve.

You gave up Google Ads because clients weren't obtaining results. Imo, that was a wrong move. You should've persisted. The fact that they aren't obtaining results is a problem. As a business owner you've got to fix it. But you got too worried about "providing value" and felt like you were scamming them. The truth is, they were financing the growth of your business. You could've turned it into a real business, had you persisted, accepted the financing, and looked for ways to solve the existing problems. Maybe targeting different customers? Maybe investing in better landing pages? Maybe subcontracting to people like Andy? I don't know. Even if they got no results, they still got your time, so that's gotta be worth something. Plus they experimented with something, and found out what's not working.

But the point is, at least that business had proven revenue. Now you're up in the air with a "value providing" business that's not working and a J.O.B.. How is this an improvement?

Hyper morality is the single-biggest roadblock most people have to success. Release those brakes!

 

[Andy Black]

Imo, a business is only worth investing in if it makes you at least enough money to finance the bare minimum of living. If your business can't replace a minimum wage job in 1-2 months, that's a sucky business and you should shut it down.

What you generally see is 100 sucky businesses, and 1 becomes a giant success, and everyone looks at that giant success and tries to mimic it. That's a$$-backwards.

A real, first-time business, should make solid income from the get-go. If it doesn't close it.

I think it took James Jani 2 months to start bringing in solid cash with his YouTube channel. And that's a VERY hard business to start and make profitable so fast (even this is a massive understatement).

People call me a money-chaser but in my mind it's all about the money. If it's making money, that's what matters. F*ck the value. If you're making money, especially in a sustainable way, you're doing something right. Business isn't charity.

My advice to you is stop providing value, and look around at people who are making money, and do what they do. Copy them first. Make cash. Then improve.

You gave up Google Ads because clients weren't obtaining results. Imo, that was a wrong move. You should've persisted. The fact that they aren't obtaining results is a problem. As a business owner you've got to fix it. But you got too worried about "providing value" and felt like you were scamming them. The truth is, they were financing the growth of your business. You could've turned it into a real business, had you persisted, accepted the financing, and looked for ways to solve the existing problems. Maybe targeting different customers? Maybe investing in better landing pages? Maybe subcontracting to people like Andy? I don't know. Even if they got no results, they still got your time, so that's gotta be worth something. Plus they experimented with something, and found out what's not working.

But the point is, at least that business had proven revenue. Now you're up in the air with a "value providing" business that's not working and a J.O.B.. How is this an improvement?

Hyper morality is the single-biggest roadblock most people have to success. Release those brakes!

"Money is proof you helped your fellow man." (MJ DeMarco)

Nothing wrong with providing value and getting paid for it so you can continue to provide value.

 

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[sonny_1080]

Did you go through the Maths exercise I mentioned above? It's not our place to tell you what to do, but we can help you decide for yourself.

I haven’t yet but I will and let you guys know

 

[sonny_1080]

It feels like you're married to an idea, and one that you're passionate about. It seems like the market isn't that keen to spend money.

This is exactly the truth. I couldn’t have said it more precisely.

 

[sonny_1080]

This sounds like one of those situations where you might be providing value, but you are not providing enough value that people will pay for.

That means your only revenue stream will be ads.

If you want to make money on ad revenue, you're going to need tens of thousands of people. In order to get tens of thousands of people, you're probably going to spend a decent amount of money on SEO.

Unless you really know what you're doing, the return on investment probably won't be there.

My other concern is that any SEO will tell you they can help you get traffic, but SEOs are not often experts and ads. And the ones who are, are usually building their own properties and don't take clients. So getting the right kind of help will be pretty difficult for you to sift through since you don't know the lingo.

I think there are other business models that will work out better for you. Maybe you can come back to this one in the long run. I have a couple of business ideas like that. I wasn't able to execute on them back in the day, but maybe someday in the future I'll be able to pull it together.

Thank you for not beating me up for my ignorance and instead sharing your experience. I greatly appreciate this.

 

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[sonny_1080]

Imo, a business is only worth investing in if it makes you at least enough money to finance the bare minimum of living. If your business can't replace a minimum wage job in 1-2 months, that's a sucky business and you should shut it down.

What you generally see is 100 sucky businesses, and 1 becomes a giant success, and everyone looks at that giant success and tries to mimic it. That's a$$-backwards.

A real, first-time business, should make solid income from the get-go. If it doesn't close it.

I think it took James Jani 2 months to start bringing in solid cash with his YouTube channel. And that's a VERY hard business to start and make profitable so fast (even this is a massive understatement).

People call me a money-chaser but in my mind it's all about the money. If it's making money, that's what matters. F*ck the value. If you're making money, especially in a sustainable way, you're doing something right. Business isn't charity.

My advice to you is stop providing value, and look around at people who are making money, and do what they do. Copy them first. Make cash. Then improve.

You gave up Google Ads because clients weren't obtaining results. Imo, that was a wrong move. You should've persisted. The fact that they aren't obtaining results is a problem. As a business owner you've got to fix it. But you got too worried about "providing value" and felt like you were scamming them. The truth is, they were financing the growth of your business. You could've turned it into a real business, had you persisted, accepted the financing, and looked for ways to solve the existing problems. Maybe targeting different customers? Maybe investing in better landing pages? Maybe subcontracting to people like Andy? I don't know. Even if they got no results, they still got your time, so that's gotta be worth something. Plus they experimented with something, and found out what's not working.

But the point is, at least that business had proven revenue. Now you're up in the air with a "value providing" business that's not working and a J.O.B.. How is this an improvement?

Hyper morality is the single-biggest roadblock most people have to success. Release those brakes!

Thank you for your advice. I’d be curious to know what @Andy Black and @BizyDad think about this

 

[Black_Dragon43]

@BizyDad

– the ball has been raised up to your net @BizyDad ! What will you do buddy?

 

[BizyDad]

If your business can't replace a minimum wage job in 1-2 months, that's a sucky business and you should shut it down.

Generally speaking, I agree with my alter ego. I would say it a little differently. The more you revenue you make in your first two months, the more likely it is this business will be successful.

I don't think it has to replace your income in one or two months. It took me 6 months in my agency to get to the point where I can make a living on it.

Is that right? Is that wrong?

It was right for me. Every month we grew a little bit. We got results for clients. We got referrals.

Like MJ talks about, we were getting little positive gumballs. Objectively speaking, I had good reason to continue going even if I wasn't making a living. I was positive I would get there. And I knew how to get there. I was working my plan.

Someone like black dragon will tell you to get there faster. They're not wrong. That just didn't work for me at the time.

But in your case, you're not getting the positive gumballs. You're not getting the little "value vouchers" that really show that people will support you in this.

If you have a good idea, you will start getting those value vouchers pretty early in your process. That's how you know you're on to something good. Positive feedback in the form of payment.

If it's making money, that's what matters. F*ck the value. If you're making money, especially in a sustainable way, you're doing something right. Business isn't charity.

Money is just a store of value. The value matters. Both the perception of value, and the delivery of value matters.

Business isn't charity, I agree. Taking this "F value" attitude to the other extreme, business isn't a scam either.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Generally speaking, I agree with my alter ego. I would say it a little differently. The more you revenue you make in your first two months, the more likely it is this business will be successful.

I don't think it has to replace your income in one or two months. It took me 6 months in my agency to get to the point where I can make a living on it.

Is that right? Is that wrong?

It was right for me. Every month we grew a little bit. We got results for clients. We got referrals.

Like MJ talks about, we were getting little positive gumballs. Objectively speaking, I had good reason to continue going even if I wasn't making a living. I was positive I would get there. And I knew how to get there. I was working my plan.

Someone like black dragon will tell you to get there faster. They're not wrong. That just didn't work for me at the time.

But in your case, you're not getting the positive gumballs. You're not getting the little "value vouchers" that really show that people will support you in this.

If you have a good idea, you will start getting those value vouchers pretty early in your process. That's how you know you're on to something good. Positive feedback in the form of payment.



Money is just a store of value. The value matters. Both the perception of value, and the delivery of value matters.

Business isn't charity, I agree. Taking this "F value" attitude to the other extreme, business isn't a scam either.

Damn, I knew it — I always have the best thoughts. Tremendous!

I think a “scam” is half a business. Now the question really is which part of the business should you get right first, if you catch my drift?

Because I think we can all agree that running a scam is, at best, only a short term operation, not something sustainable.

A scam is basically an operation that does really well at marketing & sales, but very bad at fulfilment.

I’ve always approached all my businesses by focusing on getting the sales & marketing right first, and THEN getting the fulfilment right.

Might be my direct response backround — anyone remember Ready, FIRE, Aim?!

Now perhaps Mr. Hyde-dad disagrees with the doctor and thinks that fulfilment should be “built” first, then sales and marketing. It’s hard to know your own thoughts sometimes.

Some people consider that delivering a really solid result should come first. And even with weak marketing/sales, you can still build up, albeit more slowly.

I’m of the opposite opinion — make sales first, even if you deliver little to no results, and see if you can improve the results by reinvesting the money. In a way, I look at your first customers as your investors — yes, they’re taking a gamble, a much bigger gamble than future customers will. But that gamble will hopefully pay off, if not for them, then for others.

I’m of the opinion that you should only build something if you’re getting financed to build it — from investors or from customers, it matters less who.

Perhaps if I wasn’t educated by direct response masters, and I had my start as an employee, I would think differently. Perhaps if I had my start by delivering a non-sales/marketing related service, I’d also think differently.

But for me, the starting point of everything is sales & marketing.

And btw, I should clarify, I think your business should help you make minimum wage job in the first 1-2 months. You shouldn’t expect it to replace a $200K job income for example, and thinking like that is imo a big mistake — you’ll never quit your job that way.

 

[StrikingViper69]

Your website: makes a few cents

Your work: salary doubled in a few months

Work with what’s working. Being in your job will present opportunities. You’ll be able to find things that haven’t been tried, have been overlooked, can be improved or executed on better.

Long term, could you turn your job into an independent business that companies outsource to?