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How to Learn Code, Start a Web Company, $15k+ per month within 9 months

Fox

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Thanks for the posts on development and coding practice (everyone). I am pretty new still to this stuff so I always look into what I has been posted.

Overall though the technology will always change and what works this year might be different next year. The business approach to this stays the same though and with skills like company selection, cold calling, adding value, overall design concept, copy, and client service you will always have work.

If you are new to this don't get intimidated with code or coding language. If you can do all this with WordPress and never use HTML then its all good. Whatever form of coding you use all this advice should be 99% the same. As long as your website works your client doesn't care how you made it.
 
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devine

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My point was that the business owner should be building the business, not websites.
A business owner that runs a web design company and doesn't know design/code/wordpress/insert essential skill here - is up to make pennies, as he doesn't know the water he dives in.
In great companies CEO knows more about smallest details of the process than actual specialists from not so great companies do.

Steve Jobs knew typography, which allowed him to implement gamechanging things.
Jose Neves knows code and web design, which is the main reason he's at pre-ipo now with the best website in the industry.
Pavel Durov excellently knows programming and web design, which is why VK slayed FB from day one. And now his Telegram slayed every messaging platform within their niche.

Great things are built by great specialists, or great visionaries with a decent skillset.
There is not a single exception from that rule laying outside of mediocrity.
 

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A business owner that runs a web design company and doesn't know design/code/wordpress/insert essential skill here
But he does know HMTL/CSS - this is a good foundation to apply to more or less anything web based and you can hire experts to go beyond this if needed.

You could argue that Wordpress is getting too specific and by really specialising in it you're limiting yourself to only doing Wordpress sites (until you have time to learn something else in detail).

Wordpress might not be the right solution for every web project (in fact I think it definitely isn't).

A business owner that runs a web design company and doesn't know design/code/wordpress/insert essential skill here
Steve Jobs knew typography, which allowed him to implement gamechanging things.
Great things are built by great specialists, or great visionaries with a decent skillset.
There is not a single exception from that rule laying outside of mediocrity.
I do think this makes the argument fall down - how does Steve Jobs knowing typography apply to how he built Apple (a company making complex electronic devices and software)?

He worked with experts when they where needed e.g. Steve Wozniak
 

devine

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But he does know HMTL/CSS - this is a good foundation to apply to more or less anything web based and you can hire experts to go beyond this if needed.

You could argue that Wordpress is getting too specific and by really specialising in it you're limiting yourself to only doing Wordpress sites (until you have time to learn something else in detail).

Wordpress might not be the right solution for every web project (in fact I think it definitely isn't).
Wordpress for a web design agency is essential, no matter how paradigm shifts towards static solutions. Also, it allows you to work with people who can't work in a more complex environment.

There is not a single word about specializing solely in wordpress in this conversation.

I do think this makes the argument fall down - how does Steve Jobs knowing typography apply to how he built Apple (a company making complex electronic devices and software)?

He worked with experts when they where needed e.g. Steve Wozniak
It's not where the argument falls down, it's where your knowledge about Apple and Steve Jobs falls down.
 
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devine

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I'll have to politely disagree with you on this. I know of lots of companies and individuals (including respected industry leaders) who won't touch it, and don't need to.
There is no web agency that successfuly operates and cannot deliver a website running on Wordpress themself, but that's not the main point.

That's where your argument becomes arguing for the sake of arguing though. Not spending more time on it.
 

Andy Black

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A business owner that runs a web design company and doesn't know design/code/wordpress/insert essential skill here - is up to make pennies, as he doesn't know the water he dives in.
In great companies CEO knows more about smallest details of the process than actual specialists from not so great companies do.

Steve Jobs knew typography, which allowed him to implement gamechanging things.
Jose Neves knows code and web design, which is the main reason he's at pre-ipo now with the best website in the industry.
Pavel Durov excellently knows programming and web design, which is why VK slayed FB from day one. And now his Telegram slayed every messaging platform within their niche.

Great things are built by great specialists, or great visionaries with a decent skillset.
There is not a single exception from that rule laying outside of mediocrity.
I don't know graphic design or how to build websites. I sold a landing page last week and am over-seeing the design and build before we deliver it to the client.

I don't want to know "how" it's done, just that it's going to help generate leads and sales for the client.



As the business owner, I consider my purpose to be:
  1. Create the vision for my business.
  2. Determine what needs done to make it happen.
  3. CAUSE it to happen - not "do it". (Aka delegate.)
  4. Measure progress.

I personally believe that if I'm to grow my business then I need to get away from the keyboard, not spend more time at the keyboard.



That's my 2c. I honestly don't mind whether people take it or leave it.
 
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Andy Black

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There is no web agency that successfuly operates and cannot deliver a website running on Wordpress themself, but that's not the main point.

That's where your argument becomes arguing for the sake of arguing though. Not spending more time on it.
I know a successful web and marketing agency that won't touch Wordpress.
 

Fox

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I get my foot in the door with HTML. Andy uses Adwords. Lex uses Copy.
Once in we can move around and add different services since we now have that trust.
People presume if you could do one thing you can do the rest also. Its the Halo effect.

I have done copy after a website, Andy has sold websites, Lex has done it too. We also promote and sell other services when needed.

There was a guy on here who made a 1m+ app company who didn't know how to code (if I remember correctly). MJ built his site himself.
There is no right or wrong way, results are what matter.

If there was a sales guy good enough I could teach him to do what I do without ever learning to code. In fact I already have (My Canadian sales guy) but luckily he still works for me. He didn't know anything about HTML but could show clients past results and talk about future solutions. He has closed my biggest deals. He just called this morning actually with a site sold, first question "can we also build a system for taking orders, I think we can up sell that?".

Again code and particulars don't matter. If you are the guy who gets results people will want to work with you.

I do enjoy the differences in opinion though, its good to look at things from different angles.
 

devine

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I don't know graphic design or how to build websites. I sold a landing page last week and am over-seeing the design and build before we deliver it to the client.

I don't want to know "how" it's done, just that it's going to help generate leads and sales for the client.



As the business owner, I consider my purpose to be:
  1. Create the vision for my business.
  2. Determine what needs done to make it happen.
  3. CAUSE it to happen - not "do it". (Aka delegate.)
  4. Measure progress.

I personally believe that if I'm to grow my business then I need to get away from the keyboard, not spend more time at the keyboard.



That's my 2c. I honestly don't mind whether people take it or leave it.
And you're not into web design and development field. Those business owners who are in this field know how it works.

The day you will want to come up with a solution and not with a service provided by your company (two completely different animals) - you will either need to learn what you deal with or you won't be able to come up with a solution. Though it applies to services as well, it's just not so obvious and not so fatal (but probably it is).

As a business owner, especially when you're a chief executive for your business, your purpose is to make sure your company provides good enough* services and that your solutions are effective enough*, create a workflow that ensures maximal efficiency and put a whole system on passive rails, then yep - measure progress and refine the system.
If anything in this chain lacks - it means waste expenses, missed opportunities and profits.
read: when you get more headache than you profit.

I deal with exactly this and I'm yet to see a first company that operates efficiently with minimal waste expenses on at least a medium scale. 10 years later I still won't see one, because it's technically impossible.
Next month I'm flying to Berlin and Singapore to manage this kind of workflow, because nobody in the company knows the depth of the waters they're stepping in.
Because they're too busy measuring and cause stuff to happen, while their business bleeds hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Because it's not enough to determine what needs to be done, someone has to actually get it done. And finding a right specialsit to delegate to is rare luck. Close to non-existent I'd say.
I've worked with a lot of major companies and they are successful not because they got lucky with above, but much more often because someone, almost always CEO himself, was doing stuff by himself before delegating it to others.
Coincidence? (No.)

Business has a tremendous growth potential on every step. If business lacks at any of these steps - it means that the next one is merely polishing a turd.
I know a successful web and marketing agency that won't touch Wordpress.
I know web and marketing agencies that lose hundreds of thousands of dollars because they won't touch Wordpress.
I can't call it successful operation, because it's not.
 
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devine

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I get my foot in the door with HTML. Andy uses Adwords. Lex uses Copy.
Once in we can move around and add different services since we now have that trust.
People presume if you could do one thing you can do the rest also. Its the Halo effect.

I have done copy after a website, Andy has sold websites, Lex has done it too. We also promote and sell other services when needed.

There was a guy on here who made a 1m+ app company who didn't know how to code (if I remember correctly). MJ built his site himself.
There is no right or wrong way, results are what matter.

If there was a sales guy good enough I could teach him to do what I do without ever learning to code. In fact I already have (My Canadian sales guy) but luckily he still works for me. He didn't know anything about HTML but could show clients past results and talk about future solutions. He has closed my biggest deals. He just called this morning actually with a site sold, first question "can we also build a system for taking orders, I think we can up sell that?".

Again code and particulars don't matter. If you are the guy who gets results people will want to work with you.

I do enjoy the differences in opinion though, its good to look at things from different angles.
I think the difference is in scale. I find a lot of things working both ways for not so big companies, but that's the difference between success and major success: first doesn't require excellence, while second does.
I aim for the second and encourage everyone to aim for it too.
 
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ALEX-P

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Thanks to @Fox and all people in this thread for the useful information!

I follow Fox's to-do-list.

Now i'm in the middle of Udemy course and
today I met my first client (for free).

I'm excited, they are a Law firm!

The website will be informative, tho languages with some monthly new posts. I m going to work through Wordpress. They give me all text and photos.


If website fits to their expectations they pay me some money + give another work!

great, Great, GREAT !!!


Some advices learned from FL:

There is always a first time, so NOW could be that time!

You don't need to know anything!




... KEEP LEARNING NOW, THANK YOU !
 
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Denim Chicken

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Fox, hows your mentorship course thing going? Are all of them learning to code at this point?

For those wondering about WP, the reason why I bought it up is because 99% of things, whether it's ecommerce, static, an analytics dashboard, or a landing page, can be done in Wordpress. Its the versatility from 1 platform that makes it a strong contender to learn after html/css, which means money is not left on the table when you're starting out.
It's true though, you can hire someone to code and build WP more efficiently (in time and cost) than learning it yourself but.. in the beginning stages when you don't have the margins it wouldn't be a bad idea to have an idea of how it works to get quotes and jobs done effectively. It does have a steep learning curve I am finding.

I assume you havent done any ecommerce jobs yet right fox?

I was listening to a podcast the other day and a lot of designers get umbrella insurance esp in ecommerce because if you mess something up and say they have massive losses or security issues, guess who's getting a letter from a lawyer? lol Kind of scary but good to know to be covered. Static websites are almost impossible to get sued over to that degree unless it's something rare like copyright or trademark infringement or something like that.

Have you had any issues with non-payment yet?
Also, how many conversations and brain-storm sessions do you have with your clients or is it a few calls, close and then you just deliver the goods?

In traditional web design, there are iterations after iterations because they may not like the color, or the layout, etc. but I only assume construction and some of these companies are less picky about sleek and more about function
 
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Lex DeVille

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Static websites are almost impossible to get sued over to that degree unless it's something rare like copyright or trademark infringement or something like that.

Haha that's why people should make lawyers their free clients at the start. Make em' happy and you'll have a legal army to fight for you!
 

Fox

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Fox, hows your mentorship course thing going? Are all of them learning to code at this point?

I assume you havent done any ecommerce jobs yet right fox?

Have you had any issues with non-payment yet?

Also, how many conversations and brain-storm sessions do you have with your clients or is it a few calls, close and then you just deliver the goods?

Its going good, got a few more to talk to this week (first week) but I think I have had a quick chat with everyone at this stage. Everyone is at different levels but I can already see that some people will do really well out of this. Two or three guys are about to start on their first client (some paid, some for free) and the rest are gearing up fast. I think by next week everyone should be on their first client.

I have done two ecommerce jobs and my own site is kinda ecommence. I am not a huge plan (apart from my own), it takes a lot of work, there are lots of changes and the margins seem to be smaller. Also HTML is not the best code for online stores, I used add on software for the checkout.

Everyone has paid. They would lose 50% deposit and have no website if they didn't. I take 50% up front and 50% when I am done. I also have my own access to the files so they would have to put in a lot of effort to rip me off. I have turned down jobs though where I can sense some possible issues.

I don't brain storm too much. I look for what they want and then request some info and photos. I do all the design and writing by myself and then give a week for feedback and changes. I do changes for free but I also trust them to trust me during the build stage. If I go to a dentist I would not want to be asked "what kind of filling do you want?" (ah the good one!!?). I think of web design the same way - the client should trust you to do it the right way. The plus is I can build way faster, the downside is possible changes. Overall though its faster.

People don't know what they want until you tell them what they are getting. With a website its easier to ask for feedback and make changes then it is to ask for advice up front.

Quick note on content - learn to write it all yourself, even "direct" quotes from the owner. The only thing I don't write is testimonials. It is way faster and most small businesses actually don't know how to write about what they do. They will know what changes to make though when they see what you have written. Asking a small concrete company to describe themselves for an About Us page is as funny as it is futile. These guys want to get out there and run a business, they usually don't have time to sit down and write up this stuff.

The more you do - the more you can do - the more you make. Treat every website like it was for your own business.
 

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The great thing about this thread is that inspires people in different ways.

Lot's of people learning to build websites, which is great!

I'm already from a technical web background and my company specialise in a couple of content management systems. We are very good at this but have struggled with how we 'sell'.

The thing I've been finding frustrating is that people don't seem to care much about the details of what we do or appear to value it (except when we do outsourced work for other agencies). It's not surprising because more often than not we're trying to sell what we do based on technical specifics that people mostly don't care about (or need to know).

This thread has made me stop complaining about this and look at how we need to change our approach to finding leads, sales, pitching and delivering work.

It seems so obvious now but people are interested in the value we can bring to their business and this is how I should be selling our services (thanks especially to @Fox and @Andy Black for supplying great content on this).

In a lot of cases it's much simpler than I've been making it, and this sums it up very well:

Don't make things harder then they have to be...

Aim for big companies
with terrible websites
with clear cashflow
in obscure industries
who need help

This is what I've been doing this week and already making good progress (in discussions with two new opportunities).

Thanks!
 
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Martinv678

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Just a quick question, when you first get in contact do you previous work you have done for other companies via a sales deck / PDF?
 

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Have you guys had any trouble with GoDaddy and their emailing functions, as in; emails sent from your own domain (@foxwebdesign.com etc) ending up in spam?
I've just sent out 10 mails to potential clients, only to find out that my email goes to the spam folder.. :shifty:
Seriously doubting if I should use my personal email to resend the mail right away or to wait a few days.
 

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Have you guys had any trouble with GoDaddy and their emailing functions, as in; emails sent from your own domain (@foxwebdesign.com etc) ending up in spam?
I've just sent out 10 mails to potential clients, only to find out that my email goes to the spam folder.. :shifty:
Seriously doubting if I should use my personal email to resend the mail right away or to wait a few days.

How long have you had that domain and have you been doing any bulk emailing from it?

It's possible it's blacklisted for some reason.

Don't know much about the GoDaddy service specifically.

I would avoid using a personal email if you can. We get sales emails a lot and as soon as I see someone trying to sell web related services from a gmail/hotmail/whatever account, it's a major red flag for me.
 
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Fox

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Have you guys had any trouble with GoDaddy and their emailing functions, as in; emails sent from your own domain (@foxwebdesign.com etc) ending up in spam?
I've just sent out 10 mails to potential clients, only to find out that my email goes to the spam folder.. :shifty:
Seriously doubting if I should use my personal email to resend the mail right away or to wait a few days.

I sometimes (50/50) contact companies off my personal email. Especially if its a referral.
Seems to get a better response.
I think presenting yourself as a person is better then a company.
 

Fox

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Just a quick question, when you first get in contact do you previous work you have done for other companies via a sales deck / PDF?

I just send links to past sites. I don't have any sales material as such. Proven results (by past websites) is by far the most powerful approach.

Something like...

"Here is a recent website that I increased monthly bookings from 2-5 to over 30 <link>"
 

Denim Chicken

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Its going good, got a few more to talk to this week (first week) but I think I have had a quick chat with everyone at this stage. Everyone is at different levels but I can already see that some people will do really well out of this. Two or three guys are about to start on their first client (some paid, some for free) and the rest are gearing up fast. I think by next week everyone should be on their first client.

I have done two ecommerce jobs and my own site is kinda ecommence. I am not a huge plan (apart from my own), it takes a lot of work, there are lots of changes and the margins seem to be smaller. Also HTML is not the best code for online stores, I used add on software for the checkout.

Everyone has paid. They would lose 50% deposit and have no website if they didn't. I take 50% up front and 50% when I am done. I also have my own access to the files so they would have to put in a lot of effort to rip me off. I have turned down jobs though where I can sense some possible issues.

I don't brain storm too much. I look for what they want and then request some info and photos. I do all the design and writing by myself and then give a week for feedback and changes. I do changes for free but I also trust them to trust me during the build stage. If I go to a dentist I would not want to be asked "what kind of filling do you want?" (ah the good one!!?). I think of web design the same way - the client should trust you to do it the right way. The plus is I can build way faster, the downside is possible changes. Overall though its faster.

People don't know what they want until you tell them what they are getting. With a website its easier to ask for feedback and make changes then it is to ask for advice up front.

Quick note on content - learn to write it all yourself, even "direct" quotes from the owner. The only thing I don't write is testimonials. It is way faster and most small businesses actually don't know how to write about what they do. They will know what changes to make though when they see what you have written. Asking a small concrete company to describe themselves for an About Us page is as funny as it is futile. These guys want to get out there and run a business, they usually don't have time to sit down and write up this stuff.

The more you do - the more you can do - the more you make. Treat every website like it was for your own business.
I sometimes (50/50) contact companies off my personal email. Especially if its a referral.
Seems to get a better response.
I think presenting yourself as a person is better then a company.
Do you have a portfolio site up yet? I may have missed that part
 
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lowtek

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so ... much ... gold....

I'm doing something parallel, which is boot strapping an AdWords agency for a single class of verticals.

Everything Fox is saying is spot on here. His coaching clients will do well if they just follow instructions and push the flag forward every day.

One thing I would add, that I don't know if I've seen here, is that closing larger deals is no more difficult than closing smaller deals.

I just closed my first $2,500/mo deal, when the previous deals were around $400 / mo. It was no more difficult to do the sale, but is 6x more profitable. It has allowed me to hire my first employee who can start taking some of the delivery off my hands, while I focus on developing systems and selling.

Time to a) deliver to the new big client and b) go forth and get 10 more just like him.

Never again will I work for peanuts.

Thanks @Fox - you're an inspiration to many on the forum.
 

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Smaller website sold today for $3,500-$4000 (doing up contract soon).

Sold through my sales guy for a popular restaurant. I usually don't go for that side of the market since the margins are smaller for the client but it is someone I have personally meet before (the client). The first email I have gotten about the job is the details needed to put together a quote and start building. Sales guy brought it in on commission so I have yet to even talk to the owner directly about the project. This is the advantage of having sales guys and its nice for him too, over 1k for a few hours work (I think maybe 2).

I will share this project with the guys on the course and run people through the project life of a smaller project.
 

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Do you have a portfolio site up yet? I may have missed that part

Ya but its not great. I sell on past sites and referrals.

Why spend time building my site when I can get paid to do it for someone else? :woot:
 
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Just did an hour Skype with someone just getting started. Really nice to pass on all the info that will save the weeks/months I spent figuring it out for myself.

If @MJ DeMarco can make it happen I would like to do an INSIDERS call for this. Its not mega millions but I think 1-2 hours will be enough to get anyone interested started towards a 5-10k monthly income after a few months.

If people are interested in something like this let me know. I have gotten a lot of PMs and while I try my best its not going to be possible to Skype everyone for an hour.
Just record some of the Skype calls you have with people @Fox. (I'm not suggesting the ones people have paid for btw.)

Don't make it into a bigger deal than it is. Cos you then won't start. ;)

I've done a few for the forum with a few other forum members, and they seem to have helped people as is, without editing, and without preparation.

Also... JDI. No need to wait for anyone's permission (except the person you're chatting with of course).



I'm using www.evaer.com.
 

Fox

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closing larger deals is no more difficult than closing smaller deals.

Thanks. Very true.

Sometimes it can be a little easier. Larger companies think bigger and have more money to throw around.
Smaller companies like to micro manage and stress the small things.

I am generalizing but don't be scared to approach the five figure deals once you know what you are doing.
On the deal side its nearly all the same, but ya it is more work so don't oversell yourself (its tempting to do).
Future jobs rely on past success, don't kill the golden goose.
 

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Just record some of the Skype calls you have with people @Fox. (I'm not suggesting the ones people have paid for btw.)

Don't make it into a bigger deal than it is. Cos you then won't start. ;)

I've done a few for the forum with a few other forum members, and they seem to have helped people as is, without editing, and without preparation.

Also... JDI. No need to wait for anyone's permission (except the person you're chatting with of course).



I'm using www.evaer.com.

I was thinking of maybe doing some breakdowns of past websites and looking for possible new jobs? (Would be by myself).

What is a good software for doing that? I know @SinisterLex has done it before with copy (I find them hilarious).

I have recorded a little using the Quicktime Player screen capture before but not sure if that is great for a 20 minute video.
 
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Andy Black

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I was thinking of maybe doing some breakdowns of past websites and looking for possible new jobs? (Would be by myself).

What is a good software for doing that? I know @SinisterLex has done it before with copy (I find them hilarious).

I have recorded a little using the Quicktime Player screen capture before but not sure if that is great for a 20 minute video.
I've used Camtasia on my PC. It was simple enough and a lot of people swear by it.

I recently used that www.evaer.com to record a Skype screenshare where I looked over someone's shoulder at their AdWords account. I'll import it into Camtasia and edit it and let you know how it turns out (or you can see for yourself if I drop it into the forum).

Talking to yourself doesn't quite have the same dynamic as talking to someone else I find. More for the mindset of you, the person presenting.



EDIT: I've just remembered we were going to do one together. Now *that* would be hilarious - the two of use face palming at ads and websites...
 

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so ... much ... gold....

I'm doing something parallel, which is boot strapping an AdWords agency for a single class of verticals.

Everything Fox is saying is spot on here. His coaching clients will do well if they just follow instructions and push the flag forward every day.

One thing I would add, that I don't know if I've seen here, is that closing larger deals is no more difficult than closing smaller deals.

I just closed my first $2,500/mo deal, when the previous deals were around $400 / mo. It was no more difficult to do the sale, but is 6x more profitable. It has allowed me to hire my first employee who can start taking some of the delivery off my hands, while I focus on developing systems and selling.

Time to a) deliver to the new big client and b) go forth and get 10 more just like him.

Never again will I work for peanuts.

Thanks @Fox - you're an inspiration to many on the forum.

Larger deals in general have a long sales cycle. But they are in many ways an easier sell because if you deal with price sensitive people no matter the industry, you get higher churn rate, higher returns, higher nickpicking and handholding. god couldnt tell you some of the assholes i dealt with selling a $19 plan (on sale as a test for data from my company for a limited time). The $5k or $15k deals weren't as troublesome. But they did take longer. And once you start getting past $10k, you may find that you're dealing with budgets that are set and structured and possibly partners or board that have to decide on things.

Also for anyone wondering just throwing it out there, nonprofits have no money. Well, they say they have no money always but they do have a fixed budget. it's sometimes bigger than you think .. BUT they almost always need to get multiple meetings and approval for any purchase, just like government bodies.
 

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