Working through my biggest mental block. Here it is.

[WJK]

Thank you for this. I had been avoiding coming back into this thread due to fear of exposing myself as a narcissist or total a**hole, but this was refreshing for me to hear. I definitely relate to being in that limbo of being between groups/social circles right now.

I appreciate everyone else in here too speaking about how they're motivated by helping other people. My contention is that you don't ACTUALLY like helping other people.

You like the benefits you get from helping other people, and you like those benefits MORE than the benefits you would get from making money or (insert reward here) WITHOUT helping people.

It really does all circle back to some self-serving purpose in my view. If you got nothing in return for your efforts, would you still help people?

I don't know why, but none of this "virtuous" stuff resonates with me. I already help people (from a business standpoint... I provide a great service), but that's not my root motivation or driving force. It's just that I know helping people is the only way I can help myself. I wouldn't help people if I knew it would never do anything for me. I don't think many would disagree with this.

I know everyone says you're not "supposed to" expect anything in return, but isn't the premise of "provide value and the universe will find a way to return it to you" or something more Earl Nightengale-like of "Our rewards will always be in exact proportion to our service." -- Don't these imply "expecting" something in return? Even if only on a macro basis? As in you know that your effort will someday result in a reward for you.

I like helping other people because it helps myself.

Maybe I'm just projecting my own assumptions on other people, so I'll ask.

WHY do you like helping other people?

Maybe you're just not there yet. Give yourself time...

I help people for a couple of different reasons:
1. Some very good people took me under their wings when I was a young, homeless, lost kid. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't be here. I think of those kind souls every time that I help someone. I try to pass on their kindness to honor them. They are on my "grateful" list even today, over 50 years later.
2. I try to pay forward and I am very loved by many of the people around me. I tell each person that I bless to pass it on to someone else or do me a small favor someday. Because I have a giving spirit, many of the people around me are always doing "kindnesses" for me. I have become lucky in a way that many people would only dream of.
I'm careful about when and how I give. Giving can cripple a person who isn't in the mindset to properly receive. If you give to a person, who doesn't feel that they deserve your gift, then they hate you for your generosity. I teach people to fish a lot more than giving them a fish. If they accept and run with the opportunity, then I give a little more. I "spoon-feed" the gifts rather than shower that person. Sometimes my gift is to set them up with the right person.

For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her.

Most of the time, my plan for giving doesn't work. They fail and I walk away wishing them well. When it does work, I walk away feeling blessed and in sync with the Universe. BUT, I've had people come back much later to thank me for my help. They tell me that they got their act together later out of my view... I don't care how or when it works. I just want good for them.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it is all for me. But, my work and gifts make a lot of difference to a lot of people around me. The generous side of my spirit is many times contiguous. I believe in the concept of karma. Conversely, I sure don't want to make any bad causes or unforced errors. I hate to take the time to clean up any new messes. I'm already too busy cleaning up my little corner of the world. I believe that one person can change the whole world by starting with themselves and the people around them. That's my secret goal. Through this conversation, I'm working on making the world a better place -- and I'm starting with talking to you, at this moment, and on this forum.

 

[MitchM]

The main thing I noticed here is that you seem to be prioritizing status. (Correct me if I’m wrong)

The reason I think this is because you seem to lose motivation after a win. If your motivation were deeper than a temporary status or ego boost, this wouldn’t happen.


If you’re financially well off, it seems like you have two options:

1. Move into a richer area where you won’t feel superior anymore and begin chasing the carrot on a stick again

2. Change your focus to something more meaningful

Option two can mean many things. Starting a business that you truly care about and that is bigger than you, for example.

To me it seems like you need to examine your underlying motive for success to begin with.

Are you just doing things as a form of masturbation?

 

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[Jakeeck]

Maybe you're just not there yet. Give yourself time...

I help people for a couple of different reasons:
1. Some very good people took me under their wings when I was a young, homeless, lost kid. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't be here. I think of those kind souls every time that I help someone. I try to pass on their kindness to honor them. They are on my "grateful" list even today, over 50 years later.
2. I try to pay forward and I am very loved by many of the people around me. I tell each person that I bless to pass it on to someone else or do me a small favor someday. Because I have a giving spirit, many of the people around me are always doing "kindnesses" for me. I have become lucky in a way that many people would only dream of.
I'm careful about when and how I give. Giving can cripple a person who isn't in the mindset to properly receive. If you give to a person, who doesn't feel that they deserve your gift, then they hate you for your generosity. I teach people to fish a lot more than giving them a fish. If they accept and run with the opportunity, then I give a little more. I "spoon-feed" the gifts rather than shower that person. Sometimes my gift is to set them up with the right person.

For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her.

Most of the time, my plan for giving doesn't work. They fail and I walk away wishing them well. When it does work, I walk away feeling blessed and in sync with the Universe. BUT, I've had people come back much later to thank me for my help. They tell me that they got their act together later out of my view... I don't care how or when it works. I just want good for them.

Maybe you're right. Maybe it is all for me. But, my work and gifts make a lot of difference to a lot of people around me. The generous side of my spirit is many times contiguous. I believe in the concept of karma. Conversely, I sure don't want to make any bad causes or unforced errors. I hate to take the time to clean up any new messes. I'm already too busy cleaning up my little corner of the world. I believe that one person can change the whole world by starting with themselves and the people around them. That's my secret goal. Through this conversation, I'm working on making the world a better place -- and I'm starting with talking to you, at this moment, and on this forum.

The type of post that really makes me think. Love this. Thank you so much.

This, specifically:

"For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her."

Why does this make ME feel warm and fuzzy inside, and I'm not even the one who did it? I can't imagine how rewarding that would be in your shoes.

I need to figure out why it feels so good to do things like this, and how I can put myself in a position to do them, preferably with my work or with the money/opportunities that come to me because of my work.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it. WHY do I need to know why it feels so good, rather than just accepting that it does feel good and doing more of it? I feel this need to dig to the very root, the very end of that root, to find out what causes these human emotions/reactions/behaviors. It's probably unknowable anyways.

 

[Andy Black]

I helped an electrician friend in 2009 who's work dried up when the economy tanked. He had a wife, two kids, a baby on the way, and he had to hand his van back. I setup a website and some Google Ads campaigns for him. I remember him ringing me saying "Andy, I've had a call!". The hair goes up on the back of my neck every time I tell that story.

I help local kids with their Maths. A few have gotten into College/University because I helped them pass their Maths exams. It tires me out to do it, but it's worth it because of the potential better direction they can take in life. I mostly get no thanks from them for it, but that's ok. I don't need to know what they're up to now.

I spend a lot of time helping people in this forum. I get satisfaction helping someone get out of their own way.


My favourite business quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you." (Mother Theresa)

If I like helping people so much then why don't I just help people and not get paid? Because I'd go out of business, have to get a job, and wouldn't help as many people.

Why don't I help bigger businesses and get paid more? Because I get to deal with a marketing manager in a j.o.b. instead of the business owner who's trying to keep a roof over his head and meet payroll. One frustrates me, the other motivates me.

I only help certain types of businesses and business owners. I insist on speaking to each of them before I help them. I need to understand that I can indeed help them, and get a feeling for what it means to them. Without that then they're just a "client", and not a person that I'm helping.



May I humbly suggest again that you listen to the first radio interview in my signature. Drop your feedback and/or takeaways in here or in that thread.

 

[Jakeeck]

I helped an electrician friend in 2009 who's work dried up when the economy tanked. He had a wife, two kids, a baby on the way, and he had to hand his van back. I setup a website and some Google Ads campaigns for him. I remember him ringing me saying "Andy, I've had a call!". The hair goes up on the back of my neck every time I tell that story.

I help local kids with their Maths. A few have gotten into College/University because I helped them pass their Maths exams. It tires me out to do it, but it's worth it because of the potential better direction they can take in life. I mostly get no thanks from them for it, but that's ok. I don't need to know what they're up to now.

I spend a lot of time helping people in this forum. I get satisfaction helping someone get out of their own way.


My favourite business quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you." (Mother Theresa)

If I like helping people so much then why don't I just help people and not get paid? Because I'd go out of business, have to get a job, and wouldn't help as many people.

Why don't I help bigger businesses and get paid more? Because I get to deal with a marketing manager in a j.o.b. instead of the business owner who's trying to keep a roof over his head and meet payroll. One frustrates me, the other motivates me.



May I humbly suggest again that you listen to the first radio interview in my signature. Drop your feedback and/or takeaways in here or in that thread.

Superb. This is all truly helping me re-build and re-frame to a healthier state of mind.

On another note, this makes me realize how amazing the Internet is. It's popular to hate on technology nowadays, but it's the most amazing tool we (or at least I) have at our (my) disposal.

Give me 100 years and I never would have been able to communicate these things to people I know in real life, let alone get truly thought-provoking responses that can re-frame my reality.

I'll be giving your radio interview a listen and will report back. Started reading Give and Take as well.

 

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[Tiago]

Thank you for asking those questions.

What is the real challenge here? The question that if you had answered, would shift everything?

I'm asking this first to avoid going down the rabbit hole, because we can go in many directions.

 

[MitchM]

Okay, so I just read your other reply.

Hey Tiago!

I think the real challenge for me here is not knowing the real *root* motivator behind human behavior.

I'm starting to believe it is solely competition, which contrasts with things I've learned in the past, so my beliefs are clashing.

I've come to a point where I've told myself, "okay stop thinking and theorizing... OBSERVE what is actually happening."

What I'm observing is that animal nature is ruthless. Competition rules. The weak die.

Why would humans be different? We used to kill the weak as well, using overt violence. However, we've now developed our minds to realize there's a better way.

Psychological warfare. The strong are still crushing the weak. Just like in nature. It's just psychological. It's concealed, unlike overt violence.

This doesn't mean people don't cooperate and build each other up. We do -- in our respective circles. Just like animals in a herd will cooperate but kill anyone who invades their territory. (Business competition is a modern day example of this)

My conflict is that I've been brainwashed with these ideas of what drives human behavior, and many of them are NOT this idea that life is based solely on competition.

In essence, my belief systems are conflicting.

It seems like you’re wanting things to be black and white.

There can be no competition without cooperation and the same is true of the inverse.

We live in a world that is interdependent.

On one level the bacteria within our very body are at war. On another level this war is the reason we are alive.

They are two sides of the same coin. If everyone was just chilling and cooperating... what would be the point if there was nothing to cooperate against?

In other words, nobody would have to hold you up if there weren’t gravity to pull you down.

 

[FinancerMike]

Hey this is an awesome roadblock.
I know the feeling myself, back in my earliest days of starting my business I constantly had these moments where I was BASKING in victories. Like YES FINALLY something goes right LOL.

That said INACTION IS FOR MEATHEADS.
(any time im doing something weak this mantra pops into my mind)

I've personally found if I make things unavoidable for me I get more done.

Put simply, I want to be in really good shape, so I dont buy any junk food... so when I'm hungry it's literally impossible for me to cheat.

I need to wake up at a certain time, so my phone is in airplane mode with an alarm on the other side of the room I have to get out of bed to shut off.

Meals, and gym clothes are always prepped.

I also have an 8 hour workday that is on a timer. I keep the timer running, have like 10 alarms on my phone throughout the day. I pretty much just treat myself like a dead stupid machine... input in is output out.

I put screen time on my iPhone so I cant use social media for more than 10 minutes a day. Facebook and YouTube are completely blacklisted on my phone. I have plugins for Google Chrome that make my youtube appear completely blank so I never get distracted, and one that kills my newsfeed so i see absolutely nothing on Facebook.

It's hard to stay in focus on the modern world without the willpower of a Greek God. So the best feedback I can give is for you to ask yourself, how can I make x bad habit more of a pain to do than a pleasure....

 

[WJK]

My biggest mental block: I can't seem to move on quickly from my successes. I must give myself extended pats on the back and tell myself how great I am every chance I get.

(btw, I'm not even remotely successful relative to many people here... but in my world, in my network... I see myself as quite successful)

I celebrate a success or brag about it (usually internally, but sometimes externally to others). What happens?

I get an ego boost. What does that do for me?

Makes me feel good for a little bit.

Then what?

I start to feel like crap because I’ve been dwelling on my success and my to-do’s aren’t getting done.

Then I think about how much potential I’m wasting. Probably about 50-60%.

If I just keep breaking through wall after wall, I’d be operating closer to 100%.

Why do I have to throw a mental masturbation party every time I break down a wall?

Is the root of it measuring myself against others? Why am I always monitoring my hourly and my income? Why am I thinking of how much other people are making, how much they’re working, in relation to me?

If I competed with myself every day, and tried to get better every day regardless of what anyone else was doing, would I reach my goals more effectively?

Or do I need to surround myself with people who are better than me so I get that motivation back? What I observe in nature is that life is just one big competition. People (even successful ones) try to convince us that it isn’t, and that we must drop the ego, but is this just some kind of coping mechanism where they don’t want to believe their achievements come from competition with others? I’m beginning to think it is a coping mechanism of that sort. You can’t just come out and say you’re competing against people. They won’t like you. Thus, you have to conceal it and make them think you’re not on a quest to feel superior to them.

Can I keep growing when I’m around a network with such low standards? I already feel so far ahead of them. There’s no competition anxiety. I feel superior.

That sounds bad but it’s honestly how I feel. They even tell me they’re jealous, which further feeds my ego, but I know it’s not what I need. That’s not going to help me grow. It’s going to make me complacent. If I had someone in my network who was far above me, who was telling me I was shit (or made me feel inadequate indirectly), I really feel like I’d have motivation again to keep pushing until I caught up and beat him or her.

Is this why surrounding yourself with a strong network is so important? For competition? So you don’t stagnate?

Stoicism seems like an obvious alternative, but where does motivation come from as a stoic? Where’s the drive? Where does that fire come from if the goal is to suppress emotion? What’s the payoff?

I know there’s a flaw in my thought pattern somewhere. I’m just trying to find some insight so I can use my logic and reason to rewire my brain into a more conducive approach, instead of celebrating excessively and stunting my potential.

Anyone ever have similar thoughts?

Your answer is very simple. You are having "growing pains". You don't fit in with your old friends anymore. And you haven't found your new group yet. You will. This is normal. And it is also very dangerous to your success path. This is when people shoot themselves in the foot -- become self-defeating. When they no longer are comfortable and they no longer fit in -- then they regress until they are back on that level and everyone smugly welcomes them back. People will say they happy for you when you break out of the crowd and outdistance them. It's a lie. That's when they do things to throw stones into your path that trip you. It can be snarky little comments... Behavior that blocks your path... Talking smack about you behind your back with your friends and family... Fending concern about your health and well being and advising you to quit immediately... The people around you have a vested and secret interest in you failing, so they can feel good about themselves. If you can do it, why can't or don't they?????

This shows up when someone gets promoted from a worker bee to a supervisor. At that point, the promoted guy is no longer welcome at the Friday night get together. He's shunned socially. He supposed to hang out with others at his level. But, he's not welcomed into the executive management social functions except by special invitation.

My Grandmother always told me, "Water finds it's own level." That true in a social sense as well. You need to find your new level and run with that crowd. You will become more successful through association. And then start making contacts in the next level up from that one. You can't climb up if you don't know where you're going and what is expected of you. That information is gleaned from the people who are close to, or already there.

About your bragging... If you run with other successful people, you won't have to brag. It won't work for you if you try. They'll just laugh and tell you their war stories. You can't "best" people who are doing the same stuff that you are doing or who are doing better than you. Find your new tribe!

 

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[Andy Black]

How often do you get out and help people who will never pay you back? You have some traits that trigger the feeling that you are a taker. It seems from what you have written that you may be self obsessed and focused primarily about your own stuff that is going on. Sounds harsh maybe, but it is okay and somewhat normal. You obviously want help.

My advice have a quick read of Give and Take by Adam Grant and report back after swallowing that pill. It is one of those books that you can instantly put into practice and it changed my outlook on life. I realised was a matcher (i.e. happy to give but always counted my debts), now I am constantly working on giving instead of taking.

good luck!

You beat me to it. I was going to recommend that book too.

@Jakeeck ... Competition doesn’t motivate me in the slightest. Helping other people does. Figuring stuff out does. Getting better at things does.

 

[WJK]

The type of post that really makes me think. Love this. Thank you so much.

This, specifically:

"For example, I had a tenant come in who read on the 3rd-grade level. She's on disability for being "slow". I hooked her up with the local group that does tutoring. And I've been her cheerleader every step of the way. A few months later, she's reading on a high school level and she's gotten her learner's permit for driving. Yes, she passed the test. And now she can her GED and finish high school if she wants. She simply has learning disabilities. She's not mentally retarded. No one had worked with her."

Why does this make ME feel warm and fuzzy inside, and I'm not even the one who did it? I can't imagine how rewarding that would be in your shoes.

I need to figure out why it feels so good to do things like this, and how I can put myself in a position to do them, preferably with my work or with the money/opportunities that come to me because of my work.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it. WHY do I need to know why it feels so good, rather than just accepting that it does feel good and doing more of it? I feel this need to dig to the very root, the very end of that root, to find out what causes these human emotions/reactions/behaviors. It's probably unknowable anyways.

Because your human and you're a kind person on the inside. Honor your best nature. And pass it on to the next person you meet. Even if it's giving them a smile and a little wave. You may make their day better!

 

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[Choices]

I've read all your posts @Jakeeck .

To me it seems that you already know what makes you tick.
You are just avoiding it.
By going into every little detail, by looking on the forum (externally) at answers about what should you be doing, by analyzing your problems instead of just acting to overcome them.

All of this is your subconscious mind playing games with your conscious one which already listed in this thread what needs to be done.

You can choose to continue to analyze your thoughts and avoid taking action, or take action towards what brings you results.

Are you afraid of the next level?
You listed this thread as a "Mental Block". Will posting more and analyzing help you "Work" out of this mental block, or will taking action do it?
How many meetings with people that you consider as "next level" have you had so far?

 

[Jakeeck]

My biggest mental block: I can't seem to move on quickly from my successes. I must give myself extended pats on the back and tell myself how great I am every chance I get.

(btw, I'm not even remotely successful relative to many people here... but in my world, in my network... I see myself as quite successful)

I celebrate a success or brag about it (usually internally, but sometimes externally to others). What happens?

I get an ego boost. What does that do for me?

Makes me feel good for a little bit.

Then what?

I start to feel like crap because I’ve been dwelling on my success and my to-do’s aren’t getting done.

Then I think about how much potential I’m wasting. Probably about 50-60%.

If I just keep breaking through wall after wall, I’d be operating closer to 100%.

Why do I have to throw a mental masturbation party every time I break down a wall?

Is the root of it measuring myself against others? Why am I always monitoring my hourly and my income? Why am I thinking of how much other people are making, how much they’re working, in relation to me?

If I competed with myself every day, and tried to get better every day regardless of what anyone else was doing, would I reach my goals more effectively?

Or do I need to surround myself with people who are better than me so I get that motivation back? What I observe in nature is that life is just one big competition. People (even successful ones) try to convince us that it isn’t, and that we must drop the ego, but is this just some kind of coping mechanism where they don’t want to believe their achievements come from competition with others? I’m beginning to think it is a coping mechanism of that sort. You can’t just come out and say you’re competing against people. They won’t like you. Thus, you have to conceal it and make them think you’re not on a quest to feel superior to them.

Can I keep growing when I’m around a network with such low standards? I already feel so far ahead of them. There’s no competition anxiety. I feel superior.

That sounds bad but it’s honestly how I feel. They even tell me they’re jealous, which further feeds my ego, but I know it’s not what I need. That’s not going to help me grow. It’s going to make me complacent. If I had someone in my network who was far above me, who was telling me I was shit (or made me feel inadequate indirectly), I really feel like I’d have motivation again to keep pushing until I caught up and beat him or her.

Is this why surrounding yourself with a strong network is so important? For competition? So you don’t stagnate?

Stoicism seems like an obvious alternative, but where does motivation come from as a stoic? Where’s the drive? Where does that fire come from if the goal is to suppress emotion? What’s the payoff?

I know there’s a flaw in my thought pattern somewhere. I’m just trying to find some insight so I can use my logic and reason to rewire my brain into a more conducive approach, instead of celebrating excessively and stunting my potential.

Anyone ever have similar thoughts?

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

you have to conceal it and make them think you’re not on a quest to feel superior to them.

Crushing ppl beneath your metaphorical heel?

I feel superior.

Cool. You’re not though.. it’s just your dragon. (Addiction is a dragon that devours itself) Your pride. You gotta keep chasin the dragon to get your high.

You’ll keep feeding it and feeding it until you realize it’s less and less effective each time - the high doesn’t last - because you’ve been feeding something that can’t ever be full.. it’ll just keep getting hungry and you’ll keep enjoying the high but a little less each time, like porn or a sugar rush or a heroine addiction. Your main motivator is destructive.

The ppl who say ego is bad aren’t lying. They don’t have your dragon. They struggle with other things.

The way to beat this is threefold but all three steps involve accessing your heart not your mind: find something you’re genuinely sorry about, say you’re sorry, start caring about others. Right now you mostly care about yourself and you prolly don’t know how to selflessly serve anyone.

Or you can go the Sith Dark Lord route.. find other ways to crush ppl until you die and keep chasing your personal idea of enjoyment.

 

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[Brewmacker]

Edit: what I'm getting at here is that if I KNEW life was just one big competition, I'd know the answer for me would be to find better competitors to challenge myself against. That's something I could accept and work toward.

How often do you get out and help people who will never pay you back? You have some traits that trigger the feeling that you are a taker. It seems from what you have written that you may be self obsessed and focused primarily about your own stuff that is going on. Sounds harsh maybe, but it is okay and somewhat normal. You obviously want help.

My advice have a quick read of Give and Take by Adam Grant and report back after swallowing that pill. It is one of those books that you can instantly put into practice and it changed my outlook on life. I realised was a matcher (i.e. happy to give but always counted my debts), now I am constantly working on giving instead of taking.

good luck!

 

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[Here]

Everyone is chasing a dragon. Nobody is immune.

It sounds like you’re searching for the meaning of life rather than motivation.

I’d say to keep searching. Find your own path. The answers are different for everyone.

 

[Jakeeck]

Hey Jakeeck, I think the fact that you even caught yourself doing this and discovered it as a sticking point, already speaks a lot about your level of personal development and self awareness: Its really high.

In the end of the day, you know you have something you want to fix, the best thing for you to do is to create a new successfull habit which will replace your old unproductive habit.

For Example:

--> Its 11:30, just before lunch, when a prospect you have been trying to convert for 3 months suddenly calls you out of the blue and tells you that hes going to become your new best paying customer.

Usual reaction: Mental masturbation about how cool and successfull you are, bragging to your friends about it during lunch, being unproductive for the rest of the day (until 17:00) because you just cant stop thinking about how good you closed the deal.

New reaction: From the moment you catch yourself drifting into your old habits, do the following:

1) Think about something Weird/Abstract (for example, a pink elephant)
2) Think about something Sexual (for example, your first kiss)
3) Think about something really funny (for example, a monkey eating a banana... or whatever else you find funny)

After you thought about these 3 things, your mind should be distracted enough from the old habit (mental masturbation etc... etc...) --> Thats when you implement your new success habit.

Examples of your new success habit could be the following:

- You remind yourself to sit straight (to improve your posture and be more healthy)
- You take 5 deep breaths and remember to relax and be more conscious at work

You need to keep repeating this for as long as it takes, in order to replace your old habit with the new one, but itl be worth it!

Hope this helps you out man.

Best
Champion

You nailed it in your example. That's a quintessential thing I would do (and have done).

Interesting approach. I'm going to try it. Thank you!

 

[Andy Black]

Thank you for this. I had been avoiding coming back into this thread due to fear of exposing myself as a narcissist or total a**hole, but this was refreshing for me to hear.

I appreciate everyone else in here too speaking about how they're motivated by helping other people. My contention is that you don't ACTUALLY like helping other people.

You like the benefits you get from helping other people, and you like those benefits MORE than the benefits you would get from making money or (insert reward here) WITHOUT helping people.

It really does all circle back to some self-serving purpose in my view. If you got nothing in return for your efforts, would you still help people?

I don't know why, but none of this "virtuous" stuff resonates with me. I already help people (from a business standpoint... I provide a great service), but that's not my root motivation or driving force. It's just that I know helping people is the only way I can help myself. I wouldn't help people if I knew it would never do anything for me. I don't think many would disagree with this.

I know everyone says you're not "supposed to" expect anything in return, but isn't the premise of "provide value and the universe will find a way to return it to you" or something more Earl Nightengale-like of "Our rewards will always be in exact proportion to our service." -- Don't these imply "expecting" something in return? Even if only on a macro basis? As in you know that your effort will someday result in a reward for you.

I like helping other people because it helps myself.

Maybe I'm just projecting my own assumptions on other people, so I'll ask.

WHY do you like helping other people?

It’s funny. Until I listened to “Give & Take” I didn’t realise there were people who didn’t help people for the sake of helping people. I found myself going round in circles trying to help a few people in here who I now realise just don’t think the same way I do.

 

[broswoodwork]

It’s funny. Until I listened to “Give & Take” I didn’t realise there were people who didn’t help people for the sake of helping people. I found myself going round in circles trying to help a few people in here who I now realise just don’t think the same way I do.

I think it's like an Erikson style psycho- social development thing.

You're operating on the next developmental level, while some are still wrestling with the resolution in earlier stages. They may even feel that moving on to the next level is a sign of aging. It's emotional and intellectual aging, but nevertheless the transition may feel uncomfortable, despite some part of them compelling them to move on from the "F*ck YEAH I WIN!" mindset.

I don't know. Interesting to observe though.

 

[Jakeeck]

Listen/read the book.

Okay. Will circle back when I finish.

 

[Andy Black]

I know you work with Adwords. What about your work makes you feel good? I personally wouldn't be able to find purpose in helping businesses make more money, at least nowhere near the magnitude in which I'd feel good about helping an old lady who fell in the street.

Listen the first radio interview in my signature, or the shorter version here (ideally both):

• You don't need to be an expert

 

[WJK]

I helped an electrician friend in 2009 who's work dried up when the economy tanked. He had a wife, two kids, a baby on the way, and he had to hand his van back. I setup a website and some Google Ads campaigns for him. I remember him ringing me saying "Andy, I've had a call!". The hair goes up on the back of my neck every time I tell that story.

I help local kids with their Maths. A few have gotten into College/University because I helped them pass their Maths exams. It tires me out to do it, but it's worth it because of the potential better direction they can take in life. I mostly get no thanks from them for it, but that's ok. I don't need to know what they're up to now.

I spend a lot of time helping people in this forum. I get satisfaction helping someone get out of their own way.


My favourite business quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you." (Mother Theresa)

If I like helping people so much then why don't I just help people and not get paid? Because I'd go out of business, have to get a job, and wouldn't help as many people.

Why don't I help bigger businesses and get paid more? Because I get to deal with a marketing manager in a j.o.b. instead of the business owner who's trying to keep a roof over his head and meet payroll. One frustrates me, the other motivates me.

May I humbly suggest again that you listen to the first radio interview in my signature. Drop your feedback and/or takeaways in here or in that thread.

Andy, I love to read your posts. And the quote from Mother Theresa is lovely. Cheers!

 

[Andy Black]

Add this to the list too:

• Who have you helped?

 

[Andy Black]

And this seems relevant too (especially post 4 when you get to it):

• The biggest landing page mistake

 

[MitchM]

Humans have mirror neurons that make us feel good when other people feel good.

For many, helping others and knowing that we’ve helped is a motivating factor.

If the only thing you care about is the result in terms of money or status - that’s okay.. maybe you’re just wired differently.

Just know know that the same dynamics still apply.

 

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[Jakeeck]

Thank you for asking those questions.

What is the real challenge here? The question that if you had answered, would shift everything?

I'm asking this first to avoid going down the rabbit hole, because we can go in many directions.

Hey Tiago!

I think the real challenge for me here is not knowing the real *root* motivator behind human behavior.

I'm starting to believe it is solely competition, which contrasts with things I've learned in the past, so my beliefs are clashing.

I've come to a point where I've told myself, "okay stop thinking and theorizing... OBSERVE what is actually happening."

What I'm observing is that animal nature is ruthless. Competition rules. The weak die.

Why would humans be different? We used to kill the weak as well, using overt violence. However, we've now developed our minds to realize there's a better way.

Psychological warfare. The strong are still crushing the weak. Just like in nature. It's just psychological. It's concealed, unlike overt violence.

This doesn't mean people don't cooperate and build each other up. We do -- in our respective circles. Just like animals in a herd will cooperate but kill anyone who invades their territory. (Business competition is a modern day example of this)

My conflict is that I've been brainwashed with these ideas of what drives human behavior, and many of them are NOT this idea that life is based solely on competition.

In essence, my belief systems are conflicting.

Edit: what I'm getting at here is that if I KNEW life was just one big competition, I'd know the answer for me would be to find better competitors to challenge myself against. That's something I could accept and work toward.

 

[Jakeeck]

The main thing I noticed here is that you seem to be prioritizing status. (Correct me if I’m wrong)

I like feeling superior. I like being a winner. It sounds bad to say but I don't think anyone can disagree with this?

As for status, that could be defined in many ways. I don't care about outward status. I drive an old ugly Honda Civic with over 200k miles on it even though I have money to buy something nice.

What I really like is this internal feeling of knowing that I'm winning relative to my competition. I don't feel a need to show off outwardly (and honestly, part of that is because even if I DID own a nice car or nice whatever, everyone would just assume I have high car payments or that there's a good chance I'm in CC debt like most people, and what kind of achievement is it to get approved for a car loan or credit card, right?).

The reason I think this is because you seem to lose motivation after a win. If your motivation were deeper than a temporary status or ego boost, this wouldn’t happen.


If you’re financially well off, it seems like you have two options:

1. Move into a richer area where you won’t feel superior anymore and begin chasing the carrot on a stick again

This is looking like the most likely option. It's not that I'd have to move to a richer area. I'd just have to develop relationships with successful people. People who I actually look up to or that I see on a similar plane of success as me.

2. Change your focus to something more meaningful

Option two can mean many things. Starting a business that you truly care about and that is bigger than you, for example.

To me it seems like you need to examine your underlying motive for success to begin with.

Everything you said for #2 is kind of what I've been talking about. This whole "meaningful" shtick, which when you boil it down, is just a drive for competition. Doing "meaningful things" would just be someone else's competitive arena, no? (Who can do the most meaningful thing? Who can be recognized for helping the most people? What can I do to be viewed as a top humanitarian?)

Are you just doing things as a form of masturbation?

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It's helping me connect things and convey my observations/thoughts.

Answers in your quote in bold.

 

[Jakeeck]

Okay, so I just read your other reply.

It seems like you’re wanting things to be black and white.

Maybe I'm naive, but it feels like this can be black and white. Competition is the reason for everything we currently have. For life as we know it.

There can be no competition without cooperation and the same is true of the inverse.

Agreed, and we see that in nature and in modern day humans. I have 2 employees that I cooperate with, but our competition is weak and we've been winning for so long. I feel like I need to step into a more difficult arena with better challengers to move forward.

I shouldn't have this "luxury" of celebrating my successes for extended periods of time. That means I'm feeling no pressure from my competition. I need someone either breathing down my back or someone to chase and take down.

We live in a world that is interdependent.

On one level the bacteria within our very body are at war. On another level this war is the reason we are alive.

They are two sides of the same coin. If everyone was just chilling and cooperating... what would be the point if there was nothing to cooperate against?

Exactly, so wouldn't competition then be the root of motivation?

In other words, nobody would have to hold you up if there weren’t gravity to pull you down.

Answers again in bold.

 

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[Here]

what are your values? What inspires you to get out of bed in the morning?

Is it so you can outdo others? Or something more?

 

[Jakeeck]

what are your values? What inspires you to get out of bed in the morning?

Is it so you can outdo others? Or something more?

I value producing high-quality, creative work. Where a mutually beneficial relationship is formed.

My favorite thing is coming up with creative solutions that nobody has ever thought about and being recognized for them.

As for getting out of the bed in the morning? Usually nothing nowadays. I USED to get out of bed early to work on my business and grow it because of this sense of being competitive. I've always been really competitive, but now I don't feel the urgency with the lack of competition. (I mean immediate competition... my social circle. I don't feel competitive urgency with random people on the internet)

The things I mentioned in my first 2 lines aren't strong enough motivators to get me moving at 100%. It's only got me going at 40-50%.