What GURUs are really selling you...

[MJ DeMarco]

TLDR; Gurus sell easy hustles like dropshipping that are trash opportunities selling trashy imported goods from China.

Meanwhile, if you sell those shitty courses to 1,000,000 fools who buy the BS, you make bank.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

YouTube millionaires are not your friends

YouTube and TikTok are plagued with 20-something "passive income" bros who want your attention — and your money.

www.vox.com

 

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[Kak]

I wish the truth made bank, but it doesn’t. My radio show has made approx negative $1500 in the last 12 months.

Me- “Hey, try hard and work your a$$ off to build something scalable, I believe in you. Here’s why you should believe in yourself too.”

The world- “where is that dropshipping course, maybe I should be a copywriter.”

Me- “I’m just going to record a show whenever I feel like it now.”

 

[Fox]

And just to throw this in here, to show life on the other side of the fence...



This is day in and day out of running a legit course.

- You give people who aren't ready yet lots of free advice.
- You tell people who are not suitable that they don't need this course (like above).
- And you look for the few right people who you can actually help.

But then, once the right people join, they do actually have to show up and do some work.
These are just skills, which only work if people use them and stick with them long enough to get results.

And it is actually a pretty fun business and when you run it right, it's cool to help a lot of people in some small way.

 

[Antifragile]

Just saw this post re-tweeted by someone I know.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1655563455380815875

View: https://twitter.com/steveonspeed/status/1655563455380815875?s=46&t=QVRWd3GUWSHaaHwdvWGZPg


Read it and weep for the generation of fools following this "guru". It is a plague on Twitter and other social media platforms today wanting your attention to monetize it for their "retirement".

This guy claims to have retired at 35.

Details matter:

1. He is grinding harder on Twitter than he probably ever worked at his job. Hoping to get more eyeballs.
2. He sells courses on how to grow your twitter account followers! That's how he monetizes.
3. His "retirement" is funded by fools who pay for his courses on how to grow twitter *sad*
4. He thinks that having "big monitors" and "going our for dinner" isn't being extreme frugal and is in fact retirement prosperity. Oh how low we've fallen with accepting mediocrity as a new bar for "success"
5. He ends with "These threads take a long time to craft. If you dig this thread, please leave a comment and RT the first tweet. It helps me and it helps you spread money intel that's much needed out there."

FIRE community should be proud to accept him as a "successful" member. What a cunt.

For all the imperfections we all have, I'd like to give a public kudos to @MJ DeMarco for being someone who's actually built a business, wrote books to help others build real businesses for real prosperity! And for running a forum that provides tools to those willing and prevents scum like this "millionaire habits" guru from posting his BS on here.

Members here walk the talk (for the most part). @Andy Black teaches things he's an expert in, he makes a living doing something he's great at. @Kak runs a successful chemicals company and gives away his experience for free here and on his KKRS. @Lex DeVille is the ultimate hustler successfully making it even after chasing ... well everything! @Johnny boy and I disagree on a few things but he's running a successful landscaping company! Too many examples to go on here... but you get the picture.

If you are a young reader, the greatest thing you can do for yourself is think. Think if following someone, reading something is useful to you or a money grab for the other side.

 

[heavy_industry]

Gurus make bank on your willingness to believe that "the shortcut" exists.

The more desperate and lazy people there are, the bigger the guru industry.

 

[Fox]

------

-----

Damn Buffet got scammed with that $1k speaking course.

Poor fella has been thinking for 60+ years that the skills you can pick up from a course can be useful.

---

In all seriousness, courses are just another form of information.

If you have a problem with courses, but not books, podcasts, forum posts etc - then that doesn't add up.
Either information is valuable or it isn't. Going after the medium makes no sense.

Plus the video course format is the best approach for some topics. Good luck trying to learn any of the following from a book: video editing, new design tools, audio skills, social media platforms that change by the day, sales tonality.

When done right a video course can show + tell = a lot more effective for teaching.

Here is a good take on courses from Alex Hormozi...

He puts courses right where they should be - valuable, but not some life saving purchase that does all the work for you.

To put this in action, I have applied for a $4,000 course (well cohort) from Paddy Galloway.

Who is that? The #1 Youtube strategist guy who has worked with Mr Beast, RedBull and many top creators.

He has been a big part of them getting millions of views a day on organic content.

So... is this a scam or a waste of money? Obviously not, but it wouldn't be worth it for many people to take this.
They just aren't going to get a ROI and they would have been better off just applying some free content first.

---

If people can't see that yes some courses are bad, but also some other courses can be good - then that is only on them. It would take a very strong bias to ignore 1000s of solid course creators making valuable affordable content.

And the same logic applies to all the "guru" products... let's say a mastermind.

Would a 20k a year country club membership be a scam?
No, for a lot of people it makes sense.

Then apply that same same logic to an online (or in person) mastermind for entrepreneurs.
Or are people only allowed to network and make connections if they are playing golf?

----

Once again... the problem is shady people, not courses.

Scam artists also exist in property, finance, health, e-commerce, shipping, politics and every other industry out there.

But I will admit courses and masterminds etc do attract quite a few of them ha.

Anyway it not like this topic hasn't been covered before and the same points made.

 

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[Kak]

I know a lot of wealthy people.

I don’t know a single one that says an expensive internet course helped them do it. Not one.

All of them have good books to recommend, and a few have podcasts they like.

Let that sink in.

There is no shortcut. There is no easy button. There is knowledge and grit, or there is lack of knowledge and grit.

 

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[Subsonic]

Many of these youtube gurus, especially the ones in their late teens to early/mid 20s, look very douchey.

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.


"Like their younger counterparts, these men often espouse deep mistrust of higher education and government, encouraging followers to devote their time and money to learn how to market themselves and their entrepreneurial ventures."

So basically most of this forum lol

Disagree. I follow Alex and his only product on sale is a 0.99 cent ebook.
He's very open about his strategy. He says that he wants to help people get to 1 to 3 million a year so he can then invest in their business.

You can think what you want but imo it's not fair to call someone shady just because he has edited youtube videos and speaks in a certain way.

I'm always open to changing my mind tho so you can tell me what wrong or scummy things he said/did.

 

[Andy Black]

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.

I haven't read the article. I like Alex Hormozi. I think his podcast is great.

 

[BellaPippin]

Been thinking a lot about this. There’s also a lot of “bizbabes” “bossbabes” type of things aimed at women. I follow a few small business IG out of idk. I like the aesthetic of their posts I guess? Seems like it’s much more about being aesthetically pleasing when it’s targeted towards women lol—they have cute craft studios to make their products. Also the things they show aren’t quick hassles: they tend to be crafty businesses, but in the end they promote making your own job. So idk what’s worse. Them selling cheapo hustles or selling you your own Etsy cute stationery business that takes 24/7 to run. Looks cute on IG, leaves you dehydrated with gray hairs. Hmm.

 

[Antifragile]

I wish the truth made bank, but it doesn’t. My radio show has made approx negative $1500 in the last 12 months.

Me- “Hey, try hard and work your a$$ off to build something scalable, I believe in you.”

The world- “where is that dropshipping course, maybe I should be a copywriter.”

Me- “I’m just going to record a show whenever I feel like it now.”

I don't listen to any other podcast. Just your radio show.

It's a weird thing to read that your show is not rolling in $$ like it should. It's quite upsetting to read that.

But then again... you aren't selling the vision of working 4-hour workweek, are you? You are after bigger things and harder things.

I'm tempted here to go on a massive rant... about how more and more people prefer comfort over success. Success isn't complicated, but it's not easy either.

Just today, I invested time replying to a thread on something I know very well, expert level. Only to get a "you are assuming yada yada yada".

It's frustrating because I felt like I was playing tennis with a curtain. And that's here, on FLF! Which already pre-selects members based on their desire to do business. What about the rest of the world? People can't differentiate a sparkly headline from solid, deep rooted, useful and actionable advice (like your show!).

It's probably the same reason why @MJ DeMarco books aren't #1 on Amazon business bestseller list. "Oh you want me to read all that? Does it have 37 exact steps? Can I get it on Audible abridged?"

... so much for me not going on a rant...

 

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[heavy_industry]

Every single time I took a high-quality course, my life improved and revenue went up.

Courses + books + university lectures posted on Youtube are everything you need to get a world-class education in anything.

The problem with financial gurus is not that they are selling courses, because that's not what they are doing.

The business model of gurus is not selling educational products. They are selling you a dream. A fake promise. A scam.

The "course" is just used as a means for justifying a transaction, and transfer the money from you to them.

 

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[eliquid]

I want to throw a wrench into some of this.

How many of us, knowing these were "gurus" still bought a course though?

:: raises hand ::

How many of us will continue to buy courses from them ( not the same guru, but future ones maybe )?

:: raises hand ::

I want to preface, I'm a different kind of person. Shame me all you want, but this is how I learn below ( generally in this same order too ):

1. Jump in headfirst on my own, no experience
2. Learn through "hard knocks" university
3. Read top 3 books on the subject once I jumped in and took action
4. Listen to several podcasts on subject
5. Watch some youtube videos on the subject
6. Continue to jump in and take action on my own again
7. Buy guru course and maybe learn a little more

But I have the money earmarked to learn also. Like a casino bet, I'm only purchasing a course with the money I have to lose. But I don't feel I will lose it even if I buy a bad course.

Why?

Many times I bought access to the owner, the guru.

You might think it's worthless to spend money to buy a course from Tai Lopez and for the most part if all you do is buy the course and watch it, I would agree with you.

But I've been able to buy a course, learn nothing, and then reach out to the owner of the course directly THROUGH that monetary exchange/first step relationship and use that reach out to find more entrepreneurs and deals then.

I'll give a real-life example, but I will change the names as I don't want anyone who doesn't want to be talked about angry at me.

1. Signed up for GURU X course, and paid money. Learned very little. Expected this
2. Reached out to GURU X, as planned. Asked if I could interview on ABC topic, but really this ABC topic was questions I personally wanted to know answers to. Used the fact I was a customer of their GURU X course. Maybe had to jump through some email hoops, but reached them finally.
3. Got all the info I wanted and needed. Info that was not in the course. Worth the price I paid for course to be able to do this, most times. Never posted the interview on YouTube, but I could and use that as "eyeballs" to my brand even more.
4. During the interview, found out GURU X was doing an in-person event with a few high-level entrepreneurs. Was able to get a free seat by simply asking if I could help film the event for them. Not sure I could have gotten this without the reach-out and interview or from buying the course prior, which got me all this.
5. Attended the event months later. Met several entrepreneurs that I would have never easily met on my own potentially. Exchanged info with them, and even struck up some deals. Sent the video/audio to fivver to be edited and handed off to GURU X.
6. Closed 2 big deals from this. Started a new venture with another. Expanded my rolodex with 20+ new high-level entrepreneurs who several had agreed for me to "interview" as well ( and I did ). Time to rinse and repeat and get everything I really want to know answered.

I just look for opportunities and try to get the most I can from them. Even if buying a guru course.

I'm not saying that these courses are typically NOT horrible. I know many of them are.

But I don't let the ability to get more out of the GURU simply slip past me. I paid money, I expect value. I find ways to extract more value most times if I can.

 

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[Guest931Xfjyx]

Don't take advice from those who aren't better than you.

If you want to become rich, learn from those who have made themselves rich. If you want to build muscle, learn from those who have built plenty. Most teenagers and young adults lack the life experience to impart any worthwhile wisdom in the most critical life domains.

I believe it was Henry Rollins that once said "knowledge without mileage equals bullshit."

 

[Andy Black]

He's not selling any courses is he?

I don't believe he's selling a course.

Even if he was, would that make him a fake guru?

I think it's more about how they're selling their courses, who they're selling to, and what they're promising.

Some prey on those who want to better themselves, and some serve those who want to better themselves.

 

[Pat Cush]

I think I found a real legit book on what it takes to run an e-commerce store:

Amazon.com: The COMPLETE BOOK of Product Design, Development, Manufacturing, and Sales: A guide for anyone looking to develop and sell products/inventions. The next step beyond FBA, ecommerce, or licensing. eBook : Selikoff, Steven: Kindle Store

The COMPLETE BOOK of Product Design, Development, Manufacturing, and Sales: A guide for anyone looking to develop and sell products/inventions. The next step beyond FBA, ecommerce, or licensing. - Kindle edition by Selikoff, Steven. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones...

www.amazon.com

Most YouTubers like Meet Kevin, Jordan Platten, Jaime Higuera and others know the power of building an audience and making them look like an authority. Not suggesting their courses are bad or they do not work.

But it’s best to do your due diligence into their backgrounds and see if they are actually teaching you what they do. That’s at your discretion.

But some people know how to create an audience and then sell courses or a content system.

Take for example Jordan Platten. He had over 1,000 students purchase his Affluent Academy course. You can tell how much a content creator or educator that sells courses how much they’ve earned from their audience, just by the sheer amount of students in a Facebook group.

If Jordan’s course was $1,500 dollars and had 1000 students he made $1.5million

His Funnel goes like this:

1. Create a YouTube Channel and create videos related to certain topics that gets views.

2. Place links in description, this will entice users to click on the links after watching videos that got them interested.

3. Users will then hit a landing page for the course and then decide to buy based on the content that educator placed on their landing page.

The funnel is pure genius if you ask me and it is a good marketing method. The problem will be is when the student actually takes the course, implements the action, and thus your product or course in this case actually provides true value to their problem.

It’s easy to deliver perceived value, but will your course actually help people achieve the desired result they signed up for. In a nutshell making the educator rich, leaving the student poor and in-debt because of pipe dream that was sold.

I was guilty of paying for courses in the past as so, but stopped thanks to MJs paradox of practice principle and who you should listen to.

IMO there's nothing wrong with paying for courses.

The problem is when you are paying for the transformation that the guru is promising...

And thinking that it's EASY to get there.

If you are just paying to learn a skill or get coaching from someone that is legit, then courses/coaching can be such a high ROI thing. You just need to have a high enough BS meter to determine if the person has good intentions.

And enough life experience to know that it takes a lot of persistence to get to the results the top students get.

@Fox is a great example. Sells a really solid course that is super worth it IMO. I have got a lot from it.

But if you go into it expecting that it is easy to make a lot of money, you are dumb.

I mean - for christs sake, people spend $997 on a course and expect to make $10k a month, without a shit tonne of effort.

Yet people spend 10's of thousands on a degree, years of their life, and know they aren't guaranteed a lot of $$$.

lol.

 

[heavy_industry]

It’s to say it is a shame that actual truthful entrepreneurship is ignored in favor of bullshit “steps to success” programs.

Have you ever seen a guru preach from his library or boring desk, instead of dancing in front of a Ferrari?

Has any one of those clowns presented the real monotony and arduous process of building a large scale project?

The general population is not interested in any of that.

All they want to see is Event. Event. Event.

Dopamine! Fun!

Even the basic process of daily workflow has been glamorized and turned into an event, which is now called "the grind" (lol).

In the guru industry the packaging is 99% of the product.
You can sell literal dog shit, if your presentation is good enough. Rent some fast cars, dress in a suit, and make up a bullshit rags-to-riches story to be relatable to your audience.

I'm not a big fan of this industry (to put it mildly), because it's essentially a worthless scam hidden under the disgusting lie of "I want to help other people".

But there is one thing that gurus got 100% right, and we all have to learn this lesson: know your target audience.

 

[Andy Black]

I dunno. I'm only half-heartedly skimming this thread. I think we've argued courses to death. I just find it sad so many automatically judge people because they have a course, book, podcast, or whatever.

I find it odd that teaching a man to fish is noble but the teacher is looked down on.

"Those who can't do, teach". Come again? Have you tried teaching, creating a course, or running a community? That's *hard* work. I find doing much easier than teaching. Teaching business especially involves untangling people, and as my gran used to say: "There's nowt stranger than folks."

Anyway... just my 2c.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I haven't read the article. I like Alex Hormozi. I think his podcast is great.

The great thing about a guy like Alex Hormozi is that you can find him talking about all sorts of topics and the advice is good, and free.

There is no $10,000 seminar that you are slowly being led to... yet.

 

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[fastlane_dad]

TLDR; Gurus sell easy hustles like dropshipping that are trash opportunities selling trashy imported goods from China.

Meanwhile, if you sell those shitty courses to 1,000,000 fools who buy the BS, you make bank.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

YouTube millionaires are not your friends

YouTube and TikTok are plagued with 20-something "passive income" bros who want your attention — and your money.

www.vox.com

Yes - it's the new form of late night infomercials 'How to Flip Homes for millions or profits overnight' etc etc.

Sadly additionally in this 'attention' economy - to get clicks and views - the video titles, claims, and 'flash' showing off must be more and more outrageous then ever.

Luckily all you now need to market and sell this life now is an internet connection, cell phone to tape yourself and a few bucks to rent a huge mansion + several hot cars.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

It's because human emotions haven't changed in 40 years. And most likely won't in the next 100 as well - we are a very slow species as much of our internal 'wiring' still dates to prehistoric ages in almost any regard.

People will always look for shortcuts, instant riches, overnight bodybuilder physiques and glowing skin - and it's easiest to sell all this to 20 year olds who haven't tasted much of the world yet.

This ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

The medium, delivery method and the 'clowns' themselves will change - but there will always be a 'market' and a 'buyer' for the get-me-rich-overnight program mentality.

 

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[Xeon]

He's not selling any courses is he?

There are two types of gurus : B2C gurus and B2B gurus. Alex Hormonzi is operating on the same business model as Gary Vee.

Those prepubescent and 20+ year old gurus are selling their courses (The Product) to you, the Customer.

In the case of Alex and Gary, YOU are The Product. They're using you, a numerical digit in their business model, to get clout, proof and social status, from which they use to give assurance and confidence to investors, to get the big $$$ deals/funding and whatever stuff they need to enrich their own bank accounts.

Some gurus are really good at disguising and people don't start waking up until years later. In the 2017-2019 period, young boys were salivating over Gary Vee. They nod their heads at everything he says. Many would even pay him $$$ to crawl under his legs in front of a cheering audience if given an "opportunity".

What happens now? People started waking up a couple years ago to him, you start seeing comments in YouTube comment section making fun of him and his hustle culture.

The exact same thing is happening with Hormonzi. Young dudes consuming his books and bow to him like he's the 2nd coming of Jesus, but years later, some start waking up and realize, hey, he's a guru!

The only one "guru" which I'm still not certain if he's a guru is David Fogarty.

 

[Panos Daras]

The realization of how many people are preying on young men really makes me sad. In addition, I love the fact that MJ's opinions swing from the left to the right of the political spectrum. I totally relate to this approach, I am the same.

 

[Spenny]

I like the article but it has tinges of victim mentality in it which is gross. I think the real wake up for celebs not caring was the Travis Scott debuckle.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3x6QXm63zBo


These guys will dance on your grave and not give a shit. People forget that they are there to entertain you & not be your friend. I can't blame them, parasocial relationships are a very real thing.

The best I advice I heard: observe them, see the techniques, study the techniques. Why are people watching this? How can I learn?

• Appealing to FOMO - being a "1%er"
• Wishful identification with audience - "I'm 23", flashy cars, handsome guy
• Using money
• Tutorial style - "How I'm going"
• Appealing to big trends with large audiences - dropshipping, stupid monkey jpegs
• Snappy & short writing "300k", "100k" "LITERALLY ANYONE CAN DO"

Overall I get the message is "I'll get you rich quick & easy". Superb marketing.

 

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[SeeYouAtTheTop]

Many of these youtube gurus, especially the ones in their late teens to early/mid 20s, look very douchey.

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.


"Like their younger counterparts, these men often espouse deep mistrust of higher education and government, encouraging followers to devote their time and money to learn how to market themselves and their entrepreneurial ventures."

So basically most of this forum lol

Have to disagree here.

I've had the chance to work with Hormozi and can say he's actually really helpful. The guy is hardcore intense and quirky, but most wealthy people I know are like this.

 

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[BizyDad]

Have you ever seen a guru preach from his library or boring desk, instead of dancing in front of a Ferrari?

Yeah. I mean...

View: https://youtu.be/Cv1RJTHf5fk


Isn't that kinda this whole script?

I don’t know a single one that says an expensive internet course helped them do it. Not one.

I’ve never met anybody that took a course on how to get Rich that got rich.

Really? I mean law of averages. Y'all don't know anybody that went to a Rich Dad course? A Tony Robbins course?

I know at least three people that are worth well into eight figures that did at least one course back in the day. In their early twenties. When they were still trying to figure things out.

Does someone like @GuitarManDan count cause he went through @Fox 's school. Okay, he might not be rich *yet*, but he's on his way. Please don't tell me Fox ain't a guru.

I'll put it like this. I asked the first guy I ever knew that legit spent a lot of money on courses and then ultimately went on to "make it" if it was worth it. He told me...

"Bro, 10k courses or big dollar masterminds are like anything else in life. You are going to get out of it what you put into it.

Most people don't put in the work, so it doesn't matter if they're buying a big dollar course, or borrowing a book from the library. Winners are going to win. Losers are going to lose."

Edit: Here's some marketing help @Kak

 

[Black_Dragon43]

They are selling you a dream.

Ummm you're saying this as if it was wrong to sell a dream. The tragedy in this world is that most people don't have ANY dreams. And those that do, don't believe their dreams are possible. Selling a dream is KEY to helping people get results. If they don't believe they can do it, then they'll struggle to work for it, and nothing will come of it.

Most people need to dream bigger. That's the first stepping stone into a bigger life.

 

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[mikecarlooch]

But I've been able to buy a course, learn nothing, and then reach out to the owner of the course directly THROUGH that monetary exchange/first step relationship and use that reach out to find more entrepreneurs and deals then.

Can affirm, this works.

I put one of my new information products in front of someone massive after buying their product and it actually worked to get them interested, if it goes through it could be the biggest deal of my life up to this point.

I actually got a massive amount of value from the course too, and offered to use what I learned from them specifically (with a few other leverage points) in order to make what I was offering 10X better.

Become an expert on people, buy their stuff because you GENUINELY like them, what they do, and their product (this is key, you can't "Fake" this).. The reason I got the response is because I've studied almost everything the dude has posted on the internet because it helped me so much, and I made that clear.

To add - This is someone who charges $4,000 for an hour of their time. My investment was about half of that, yet my tenacious persistence in getting into their ecosystem and getting them to see me consistently was the big thing.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

View attachment 48710


Holy shitballs I didn’t know this guy was such a legit baller. I hope my girl doesn’t find this guy.

I swear, every time I log onto Twitter I see this guy's BS in my feed.

I don't follow him.

I don't follow anyone like him.

WTF do I keep seeing his shit?

As always with guys like this, the devil is in the details...

Home gym = Cinder blocks and a pipe in a back closet.
MacBook Pro = 9 years old bought off Craigslist
TopShelf Liquor = Smirnoff
Prime Cut Steak = bought on clearance due to 6 days expired
Weekly Restaurants = Subway, Arbys and a big lavish excursion, Olive Garden
Big Computer Monitors = Bought 4 years used from Goodwill.

 

[heavy_industry]

I think part of the appeal is that they seem to have made it on their first try, fast, while in their prime, which is what they want. It’s part of why they relate. If given to choose ofc they’re going to watch someone their age.

It's not only "part" of their appeal.
It's the very core of the image they are trying to project. Everything is done on purpose.

The whole business model revolves around selling the idea that you too can become just like them, for a quick and easy one-off payment of $xxxx to join their shitty program.

The fact that all gurus of the last 50 years have the same BS on display (big house, fast cars, beautiful women) really makes me question the intelligence of the audience.

 

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[Kak]

I don't listen to any other podcast. Just your radio show.

It's a weird thing to read that your show is not rolling in $$ like it should. It's quite upsetting to read that.

I think I turned on general advertising for the first time ever like a month ago. Before that I had a read with APMEX and Nord VPN. Those paid better, but I agreed to amount of monthly episodes. It worked out to 8 per month, minimum. It was fun for a while, but unsustainable for my real business to do all that work for $650-1200 a month.

We parted ways, I went to ~once a week and that was better for me. Meanwhile, I’m still an audio nerd that likes high end equipment and plugins, so I spend money on perfection, even with nothing coming in.

My point is not to make this about me. It’s to say it is a shame that actual truthful entrepreneurship is ignored in favor of bullshit “steps to success” programs.