What GURUs are really selling you...

[MJ DeMarco]

TLDR; Gurus sell easy hustles like dropshipping that are trash opportunities selling trashy imported goods from China.

Meanwhile, if you sell those shitty courses to 1,000,000 fools who buy the BS, you make bank.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

YouTube millionaires are not your friends

YouTube and TikTok are plagued with 20-something "passive income" bros who want your attention — and your money.

www.vox.com

 

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[Panos Daras]

The realization of how many people are preying on young men really makes me sad. In addition, I love the fact that MJ's opinions swing from the left to the right of the political spectrum. I totally relate to this approach, I am the same.

 

[heavy_industry]

Gurus make bank on your willingness to believe that "the shortcut" exists.

The more desperate and lazy people there are, the bigger the guru industry.

 

[Xeon]

Many of these youtube gurus, especially the ones in their late teens to early/mid 20s, look very douchey.

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.


"Like their younger counterparts, these men often espouse deep mistrust of higher education and government, encouraging followers to devote their time and money to learn how to market themselves and their entrepreneurial ventures."

So basically most of this forum lol

 

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[BellaPippin]

Been thinking a lot about this. There’s also a lot of “bizbabes” “bossbabes” type of things aimed at women. I follow a few small business IG out of idk. I like the aesthetic of their posts I guess? Seems like it’s much more about being aesthetically pleasing when it’s targeted towards women lol—they have cute craft studios to make their products. Also the things they show aren’t quick hassles: they tend to be crafty businesses, but in the end they promote making your own job. So idk what’s worse. Them selling cheapo hustles or selling you your own Etsy cute stationery business that takes 24/7 to run. Looks cute on IG, leaves you dehydrated with gray hairs. Hmm.

 

[Guest931Xfjyx]

Don't take advice from those who aren't better than you.

If you want to become rich, learn from those who have made themselves rich. If you want to build muscle, learn from those who have built plenty. Most teenagers and young adults lack the life experience to impart any worthwhile wisdom in the most critical life domains.

I believe it was Henry Rollins that once said "knowledge without mileage equals bullshit."

 

[BellaPippin]

Don't take advice from those who aren't better than you.

If you want to become rich, learn from those who have made themselves rich. If you want to build muscle, learn from those who have built plenty. Most teenagers and young adults lack the life experience to impart any worthwhile wisdom in the most critical life domains.

I believe it was Henry Rollins that once said "knowledge without mileage equals bullshit."

I think part of the appeal is that they seem to have made it on their first try, fast, while in their prime, which is what they want. It’s part of why they relate. If given to choose ofc they’re going to watch someone their age.

 

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[REV5028]

Gurus make bank on your willingness to believe that "the shortcut" exists.

It's interesting because it seems gurus are also looking for "the shortcut" - they don't put the effort in to provide value, they would rather sell a quick scam. It's kind of a fascinating (and sad and confusing) positive feedback system - the more lazy and ignorant consumers there are, the more predatory gurus there are. No wonder it's a growing industry.

 

[Subsonic]

Many of these youtube gurus, especially the ones in their late teens to early/mid 20s, look very douchey.

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.


"Like their younger counterparts, these men often espouse deep mistrust of higher education and government, encouraging followers to devote their time and money to learn how to market themselves and their entrepreneurial ventures."

So basically most of this forum lol

Disagree. I follow Alex and his only product on sale is a 0.99 cent ebook.
He's very open about his strategy. He says that he wants to help people get to 1 to 3 million a year so he can then invest in their business.

You can think what you want but imo it's not fair to call someone shady just because he has edited youtube videos and speaks in a certain way.

I'm always open to changing my mind tho so you can tell me what wrong or scummy things he said/did.

 

[heavy_industry]

I think part of the appeal is that they seem to have made it on their first try, fast, while in their prime, which is what they want. It’s part of why they relate. If given to choose ofc they’re going to watch someone their age.

It's not only "part" of their appeal.
It's the very core of the image they are trying to project. Everything is done on purpose.

The whole business model revolves around selling the idea that you too can become just like them, for a quick and easy one-off payment of $xxxx to join their shitty program.

The fact that all gurus of the last 50 years have the same BS on display (big house, fast cars, beautiful women) really makes me question the intelligence of the audience.

 

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[savefox]

Many of these youtube gurus, especially the ones in their late teens to early/mid 20s, look very douchey.

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.


"Like their younger counterparts, these men often espouse deep mistrust of higher education and government, encouraging followers to devote their time and money to learn how to market themselves and their entrepreneurial ventures."

So basically most of this forum lol

He's not selling any courses is he?

 

[Andy Black]

Also good to see Alex Hormonzi on that guru list in the article. Always knew something was off with him. If one smells like a guru or talks like a guru, he IS a guru.

I haven't read the article. I like Alex Hormozi. I think his podcast is great.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I haven't read the article. I like Alex Hormozi. I think his podcast is great.

The great thing about a guy like Alex Hormozi is that you can find him talking about all sorts of topics and the advice is good, and free.

There is no $10,000 seminar that you are slowly being led to... yet.

 

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[Andy Black]

The great thing about a guy like Alex Hormozi is that you can find him talking about all sorts of topics and the advice is good, and free.

There is no $10,000 seminar that you are slowly being led to... yet.

From some of what I've listened to he talks about how fame is an asset he'd underestimated.

I believe he's thinking longer term and growing his goodwill as much as he can. I suspect withdrawing that goodwill via $10k seminars is thinking too small for him.

He's even mentioned Jab, Jab, Jab, Jab, and *not* having a right hook.

 

[Andy Black]

He's not selling any courses is he?

I don't believe he's selling a course.

Even if he was, would that make him a fake guru?

I think it's more about how they're selling their courses, who they're selling to, and what they're promising.

Some prey on those who want to better themselves, and some serve those who want to better themselves.

 

[fastlane_dad]

TLDR; Gurus sell easy hustles like dropshipping that are trash opportunities selling trashy imported goods from China.

Meanwhile, if you sell those shitty courses to 1,000,000 fools who buy the BS, you make bank.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

YouTube millionaires are not your friends

YouTube and TikTok are plagued with 20-something "passive income" bros who want your attention — and your money.

www.vox.com

Yes - it's the new form of late night infomercials 'How to Flip Homes for millions or profits overnight' etc etc.

Sadly additionally in this 'attention' economy - to get clicks and views - the video titles, claims, and 'flash' showing off must be more and more outrageous then ever.

Luckily all you now need to market and sell this life now is an internet connection, cell phone to tape yourself and a few bucks to rent a huge mansion + several hot cars.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

It's because human emotions haven't changed in 40 years. And most likely won't in the next 100 as well - we are a very slow species as much of our internal 'wiring' still dates to prehistoric ages in almost any regard.

People will always look for shortcuts, instant riches, overnight bodybuilder physiques and glowing skin - and it's easiest to sell all this to 20 year olds who haven't tasted much of the world yet.

This ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

The medium, delivery method and the 'clowns' themselves will change - but there will always be a 'market' and a 'buyer' for the get-me-rich-overnight program mentality.

 

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[Private Witt]

Disagree. I follow Alex and his only product on sale is a 0.99 cent ebook.
He's very open about his strategy. He says that he wants to help people get to 1 to 3 million a year so he can then invest in their business.

You can think what you want but imo it's not fair to call someone shady just because he has edited youtube videos and speaks in a certain way.

I'm always open to changing my mind tho so you can tell me what wrong or scummy things he said/did.

Has there been cases where a disciple of his has gotten to 1 to 3 mil and than he helped scale to great success. Don't follow much of Alex but have seen him put this out there and wondering if it's happening.

 

[Xeon]

He's not selling any courses is he?

There are two types of gurus : B2C gurus and B2B gurus. Alex Hormonzi is operating on the same business model as Gary Vee.

Those prepubescent and 20+ year old gurus are selling their courses (The Product) to you, the Customer.

In the case of Alex and Gary, YOU are The Product. They're using you, a numerical digit in their business model, to get clout, proof and social status, from which they use to give assurance and confidence to investors, to get the big $$$ deals/funding and whatever stuff they need to enrich their own bank accounts.

Some gurus are really good at disguising and people don't start waking up until years later. In the 2017-2019 period, young boys were salivating over Gary Vee. They nod their heads at everything he says. Many would even pay him $$$ to crawl under his legs in front of a cheering audience if given an "opportunity".

What happens now? People started waking up a couple years ago to him, you start seeing comments in YouTube comment section making fun of him and his hustle culture.

The exact same thing is happening with Hormonzi. Young dudes consuming his books and bow to him like he's the 2nd coming of Jesus, but years later, some start waking up and realize, hey, he's a guru!

The only one "guru" which I'm still not certain if he's a guru is David Fogarty.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

There are two types of gurus : B2C gurus and B2B gurus. Alex Hormonzi is operating on the same business model as Gary Vee.

Those prepubescent and 20+ year old gurus are selling their courses (The Product) to you, the Customer.

In the case of Alex and Gary, YOU are The Product. They're using you, a numerical digit in their business model, to get clout, proof and social status, from which they use to give assurance and confidence to investors, to get the big $$$ deals/funding and whatever stuff they need to enrich their own bank accounts.

Some gurus are really good at disguising and people don't start waking up until years later. In the 2017-2019 period, young boys were salivating over Gary Vee. They nod their heads at everything he says. Many would even pay him $$$ to crawl under his legs in front of a cheering audience if given an "opportunity".

What happens now? People started waking up a couple years ago to him, you start seeing comments in YouTube comment section making fun of him and his hustle culture.

The exact same thing is happening with Hormonzi. Young dudes consuming his books and bow to him like he's the 2nd coming of Jesus, but years later, some start waking up and realize, hey, he's a guru!

The only one "guru" which I'm still not certain if he's a guru is David Fogarty.

The amount of content creation required to be considered a content creator (guru) is a full time job or business. They are all “gurus.”

 

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[Kak]

I wish the truth made bank, but it doesn’t. My radio show has made approx negative $1500 in the last 12 months.

Me- “Hey, try hard and work your a$$ off to build something scalable, I believe in you. Here’s why you should believe in yourself too.”

The world- “where is that dropshipping course, maybe I should be a copywriter.”

Me- “I’m just going to record a show whenever I feel like it now.”

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I wish the truth made bank, but it doesn’t. My radio show has made approx negative $1500 in the last 12 months.

Me- “Hey, try hard and work your a$$ off to build something scalable, I believe in you.”

The world- “where is that dropshipping course, maybe I should be a copywriter.”

Me- “I’m just going to record a show whenever I feel like it now.”

Hey man, I listen to your show all the time and share it with friends.

I love it. You always speak the truth.

 

[James Klymus]

I remember when I was 19 I almost joined OMG Machines. If you know you know.

 

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[James Klymus]

The only one "guru" which I'm still not certain if he's a guru is David Fogarty.

David Fogarty seems like he has good intentions, though I don’t know why he would want to teach people e-commerce when he could do the same thing him self, since he has so much experience.

That said, I like the fact he isn’t outwardly a douche who poses in front of cars for clout. He has nice things, And I believe he worked hard to get them.

 

[ZackerySprague]

I think I found a real legit book on what it takes to run an e-commerce store:

Amazon.com: The COMPLETE BOOK of Product Design, Development, Manufacturing, and Sales: A guide for anyone looking to develop and sell products/inventions. The next step beyond FBA, ecommerce, or licensing. eBook : Selikoff, Steven: Kindle Store

The COMPLETE BOOK of Product Design, Development, Manufacturing, and Sales: A guide for anyone looking to develop and sell products/inventions. The next step beyond FBA, ecommerce, or licensing. - Kindle edition by Selikoff, Steven. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones...

www.amazon.com

Most YouTubers like Meet Kevin, Jordan Platten, Jaime Higuera and others know the power of building an audience and making them look like an authority. Not suggesting their courses are bad or they do not work.

But it’s best to do your due diligence into their backgrounds and see if they are actually teaching you what they do. That’s at your discretion.

But some people know how to create an audience and then sell courses or a content system.

Take for example Jordan Platten. He had over 1,000 students purchase his Affluent Academy course. You can tell how much a content creator or educator that sells courses how much they’ve earned from their audience, just by the sheer amount of students in a Facebook group.

If Jordan’s course was $1,500 dollars and had 1000 students he made $1.5million

His Funnel goes like this:

1. Create a YouTube Channel and create videos related to certain topics that gets views.

2. Place links in description, this will entice users to click on the links after watching videos that got them interested.

3. Users will then hit a landing page for the course and then decide to buy based on the content that educator placed on their landing page.

The funnel is pure genius if you ask me and it is a good marketing method. The problem will be is when the student actually takes the course, implements the action, and thus your product or course in this case actually provides true value to their problem.

It’s easy to deliver perceived value, but will your course actually help people achieve the desired result they signed up for. In a nutshell making the educator rich, leaving the student poor and in-debt because of pipe dream that was sold.

I was guilty of paying for courses in the past as so, but stopped thanks to MJs paradox of practice principle and who you should listen to.

 

[Antifragile]

I wish the truth made bank, but it doesn’t. My radio show has made approx negative $1500 in the last 12 months.

Me- “Hey, try hard and work your a$$ off to build something scalable, I believe in you.”

The world- “where is that dropshipping course, maybe I should be a copywriter.”

Me- “I’m just going to record a show whenever I feel like it now.”

I don't listen to any other podcast. Just your radio show.

It's a weird thing to read that your show is not rolling in $$ like it should. It's quite upsetting to read that.

But then again... you aren't selling the vision of working 4-hour workweek, are you? You are after bigger things and harder things.

I'm tempted here to go on a massive rant... about how more and more people prefer comfort over success. Success isn't complicated, but it's not easy either.

Just today, I invested time replying to a thread on something I know very well, expert level. Only to get a "you are assuming yada yada yada".

It's frustrating because I felt like I was playing tennis with a curtain. And that's here, on FLF! Which already pre-selects members based on their desire to do business. What about the rest of the world? People can't differentiate a sparkly headline from solid, deep rooted, useful and actionable advice (like your show!).

It's probably the same reason why @MJ DeMarco books aren't #1 on Amazon business bestseller list. "Oh you want me to read all that? Does it have 37 exact steps? Can I get it on Audible abridged?"

... so much for me not going on a rant...

 

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[Kak]

I don't listen to any other podcast. Just your radio show.

It's a weird thing to read that your show is not rolling in $$ like it should. It's quite upsetting to read that.

I think I turned on general advertising for the first time ever like a month ago. Before that I had a read with APMEX and Nord VPN. Those paid better, but I agreed to amount of monthly episodes. It worked out to 8 per month, minimum. It was fun for a while, but unsustainable for my real business to do all that work for $650-1200 a month.

We parted ways, I went to ~once a week and that was better for me. Meanwhile, I’m still an audio nerd that likes high end equipment and plugins, so I spend money on perfection, even with nothing coming in.

My point is not to make this about me. It’s to say it is a shame that actual truthful entrepreneurship is ignored in favor of bullshit “steps to success” programs.

 

[Pat Cush]

I think I found a real legit book on what it takes to run an e-commerce store:

Amazon.com: The COMPLETE BOOK of Product Design, Development, Manufacturing, and Sales: A guide for anyone looking to develop and sell products/inventions. The next step beyond FBA, ecommerce, or licensing. eBook : Selikoff, Steven: Kindle Store

The COMPLETE BOOK of Product Design, Development, Manufacturing, and Sales: A guide for anyone looking to develop and sell products/inventions. The next step beyond FBA, ecommerce, or licensing. - Kindle edition by Selikoff, Steven. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones...

www.amazon.com

Most YouTubers like Meet Kevin, Jordan Platten, Jaime Higuera and others know the power of building an audience and making them look like an authority. Not suggesting their courses are bad or they do not work.

But it’s best to do your due diligence into their backgrounds and see if they are actually teaching you what they do. That’s at your discretion.

But some people know how to create an audience and then sell courses or a content system.

Take for example Jordan Platten. He had over 1,000 students purchase his Affluent Academy course. You can tell how much a content creator or educator that sells courses how much they’ve earned from their audience, just by the sheer amount of students in a Facebook group.

If Jordan’s course was $1,500 dollars and had 1000 students he made $1.5million

His Funnel goes like this:

1. Create a YouTube Channel and create videos related to certain topics that gets views.

2. Place links in description, this will entice users to click on the links after watching videos that got them interested.

3. Users will then hit a landing page for the course and then decide to buy based on the content that educator placed on their landing page.

The funnel is pure genius if you ask me and it is a good marketing method. The problem will be is when the student actually takes the course, implements the action, and thus your product or course in this case actually provides true value to their problem.

It’s easy to deliver perceived value, but will your course actually help people achieve the desired result they signed up for. In a nutshell making the educator rich, leaving the student poor and in-debt because of pipe dream that was sold.

I was guilty of paying for courses in the past as so, but stopped thanks to MJs paradox of practice principle and who you should listen to.

IMO there's nothing wrong with paying for courses.

The problem is when you are paying for the transformation that the guru is promising...

And thinking that it's EASY to get there.

If you are just paying to learn a skill or get coaching from someone that is legit, then courses/coaching can be such a high ROI thing. You just need to have a high enough BS meter to determine if the person has good intentions.

And enough life experience to know that it takes a lot of persistence to get to the results the top students get.

@Fox is a great example. Sells a really solid course that is super worth it IMO. I have got a lot from it.

But if you go into it expecting that it is easy to make a lot of money, you are dumb.

I mean - for christs sake, people spend $997 on a course and expect to make $10k a month, without a shit tonne of effort.

Yet people spend 10's of thousands on a degree, years of their life, and know they aren't guaranteed a lot of $$$.

lol.

 

[Xeon]

David Fogarty seems like he has good intentions, though I don’t know why he would want to teach people e-commerce when he could do the same thing him self, since he has so much experience.

That said, I like the fact he isn’t outwardly a douche who poses in front of cars for clout. He has nice things, And I believe he worked hard to get them.

I used to think a lot about this when I used to binge watch his videos. I think he's building an additional bridge for himself, in case if his current businesses sink, he can still go the guru route lol. But it seems more likely he's doing this out of the desire to build a legacy, or an ego boost, like that feel-good feeling you get when you teach kids how to run a bicycle, for example, or basketball.

 

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[ZackerySprague]

IMO there's nothing wrong with paying for courses.

The problem is when you are paying for the transformation that the guru is promising...

And thinking that it's EASY to get there.

If you are just paying to learn a skill or get coaching from someone that is legit, then courses/coaching can be such a high ROI thing. You just need to have a high enough BS meter to determine if the person has good intentions.

And enough life experience to know that it takes a lot of persistence to get to the results the top students get.

@Fox is a great example. Sells a really solid course that is super worth it IMO. I have got a lot from it.

But if you go into it expecting that it is easy to make a lot of money, you are dumb.

I mean - for christs sake, people spend $997 on a course and expect to make $10k a month, without a shit tonne of effort.

Yet people spend 10's of thousands on a degree, years of their life, and know they aren't guaranteed a lot of $$$.

lol.

I completely agree, but personally for me. I have learned that I learn much more from books than a course. I even veered off course to find books that were supplemental to courses that I have bought in the past due to some situations where the course material wasn’t exactly enough to get me going, but the foundations were good.

I just have this bias towards them now, not in a hateful way.

I’m more careful and aware to who I buy courses from for now on. I don’t even think it’s worth purchasing courses sometimes when you can buy a book on the subject for less than $30 dollars. I’m now a frequent buyer at Barnes & Nobles now lol and I tell you. I use to hate reading and now I adore it/love it.

I don’t have many books, but I only buy them when I have a problem that I need to help solve. My friends think that books have “warped” my mind, but they haven’t.

They helped me understand past problems I had and helped me develop solutions to better myself and getting past them. For example, my ex, I was able to find closure. I understood what childhood emotional neglect was or why I have this inner burning desire to win after losing so much because of my younger self choices.

So in-short, I try to veer away from them or if anything I’ll make sure the person I’m learning from actually did what I want to do.

I just don’t want to buy anymore, even after read TMF and understanding how educators can earn riches from courses very fast just errks me in a way. Not saying every educator is out for money. I just want to see people succeed and not get burned.

 

[Kevin88660]

TLDR; Gurus sell easy hustles like dropshipping that are trash opportunities selling trashy imported goods from China.

Meanwhile, if you sell those shitty courses to 1,000,000 fools who buy the BS, you make bank.

Nothing has changed in 40 years.

YouTube millionaires are not your friends

YouTube and TikTok are plagued with 20-something "passive income" bros who want your attention — and your money.

www.vox.com

I used to fell for the boomer gold bugs guru community. Mike Maloney, Jim Sinclair..

Steal have a lot of precious metals locked with custodian companies paying fees…

Not producing value and hoping that the world burns in flames is not a good wealth strategy. Lesson learnt.

There was a american dude with 200k followers in youtube back in 2013. Back then 200k was really a huge number. He sold his family business of car dealership and converted all into silver bars, with some for ammo and canned food. He literally went crazy and his marriage ended up in divorce. Never heard about him again.