RANT - This Must Be Talked About More

[amp0193]

All of those ideas, with the exception of lawn-mowing, require real domain expertise. In other words, for John, an admin clerk in the media industry, to quit his job and "take massive action" to start a business in the "cement furbication industry", he needs to first quit his job and take up a job in said industry, work for 10 years minimum (and another 1-4 years for relevant education if needed), go balls deep into it, another 2 - 5 years to discover a NEED (seriously fark this thing) with the expertise that he now has, before he can even get going.

The "Fast" in Milionaire Fastlane is "faster than working for 40 years, saving your pennies, and retiring at 65".

10-20 years to achieve financial freedom (and a really cool life) is pretty damn fast in comparison.

Spring-boarding off relevant work experience is a great way to get into business. You use what you know.

 

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[BizyDad]

Good post lol, and one that should have been talked about long ago. On the forums are several '100 unsexy business ideas' threads.

All of those ideas, with the exception of lawn-mowing, require real domain expertise. In other words, for John, an admin clerk in the media industry, to quit his job and "take massive action" to start a business in the "cement furbication industry", he needs to first quit his job and take up a job in said industry, work for 10 years minimum (and another 1-4 years for relevant education if needed), go balls deep into it, another 2 - 5 years to discover a NEED (seriously fark this thing) with the expertise that he now has, before he can even get going.

This guy apparently just read one book on "cement furbication"

Rajendra Chamaria: Daring Entrepreneur Who Built A Cement Empire In The Northeast - Forbes India

Over two decades ago, Rajendra Chamaria took a flurry of concrete steps to build a cement empire in the Northeast. The audacious gambit is now paying off for the regional Goliath—vice chairman and MD of Star Cement

www.forbesindia.com

Ok, ok, maybe because this guy comes from an entrepreneurial family you want to argue that he had domain experience...

Well these don't have 10 years of domain experience...

These scientists bonded over toilet tech. Now they're working on carbon-free cement

Breakthrough Energy Ventures and Silicon Valley venture capital firm DCVC invest $55 million in a start-up aiming to make Portland cement carbon negative.

www.cnbc.com

And here's a couple more stories with founders still under 30.

The Startups Creating Concrete Alternatives | Built In

Concrete has a massive carbon footprint, but its future doesn’t have to be set in stone.

builtin.com

You are correct in the steps (education, find a need) but several of these people weren't in the concrete industry when they started their concrete companies...

And honestly, many cement businesses don't seem all that hard to start.

10+ Best & Profitable Cement Business Ideas [2023]

Take your business to the next level with these 10+ creative and demanding ideas for cement businesses. Expert advice and top tips to help you succeed. Discover the untapped potential of the cement industry today.

www.newfoundr.com

I have a client in the cement industry. We've turned off their ads because they get more business than they can handle.

Less and less people want to run this kind of business.

I bet I could get domain experience by spending a weekend on YouTube. And after this thread, I kind of want to...

Just to show how easy it can be.

 

[Bearcorp]

Gold Coast twins hit rapid growth with eco-friendly startup

With almost no prior experience in business behind them when they founded Lucent Globe in March 2022, Gold Coast twins Brodie and Roger Cook have rapidly scaled

www.businessnewsaustralia.com

Not bad for a couple of lads on the Gold Coast that didn't have 10 years domain experience in detergent or business...

 

[Andy Black]

many cement businesses don't seem all that hard

That would be a problem...

 

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[MitchC]

Just my opinion - from my world - but it feels like if you know a thing or two about something before jumping into it, especially a technical venture, like.. learning to code or natural language processing or machine learning..

I tried jumping into those things months ago without having a solid foundation for understanding the basics of programming - when I did this - my confidence levels of what I could do with the technology in application to my industry of choice or even the pursuit of learning, was out of my reach.

So what I believe, is that having the basics down REALLY WELL creates somewhat of a feedback loop that gives you the mental confidence to say.. Ok.. This is possible.. Other people aren't just extremely gifted. This can be done by me.

To give another analogy, it's almost like.. How I noticed the amount of confidence I gained when I pursued a technical co-founder for an AI product I wanted to create. Before having him, I was thinking.. How in the world can I do this..? I need other people.

It feels like the same way with improving your education before just jumping in. The confidence, the feeling like it is possible and not out of reach for you.

And this brings me back to my belief on why some people pursue low entry barrier businesses. Because it's within the scope of what they believe they can do within their skillset. They don't pursue higher entry opportunities because they haven't exposed themselves to that world.

Again , just an opinion from a 20 year old trying to figure all this confusing stuff out.. lol!

Start smaller

Don’t start trying to build the next big app, make a few small ones, get them working, make them free, get users.

I wouldn’t say it’s passion but curiosity and interest are required for things like this or you just wouldn’t stick at it or be interested enough for long enough to see results.

Build your experience and confidence from there.

There’s a thread on here at the moment where a guy who’s never run a business wants to start selling a $1500 home appliance that will cost 10k to develop.

Sure that’s a fast lane idea and has a barrier to entry and required domain expertise, but it’s not where someone should start with no experience and no money.

He would be better off starting a business reselling existing appliances, or selling small cheap kitchen gadgets, and then grow from there.

I follow a lot of watch flippers on social media now.

Everyone sees them flipping APs and Pateks and making crazy money and wants to do the same.

They probably say oh I need the domain expertise.

How do you think you get that?

By flipping cheaper watch brands, making mistakes, making money, getting better at negotiating, building clients and before you know it you are gaining confidence and skill and working your way up in the price ranges to more and more expensive deals.

I know a few people on the forum who do ecommerce and what I notice is they all started with a cheap easy product and then took that experience and money and used it to build a better more defensible ecommerce business that required more skill and upfront investment.

I did exactly the same. I started dropshipping crap and once I had it figured out I started ordering in bulk, then I started investing in product development and branding. Now the business is quite defensible.

I didn’t take a bunch of money with no skill and expertise and expect to start a business with a high barrier to entry and domain expertise right out the gate. That just comes naturally with time. You have to start smaller and easier.

 

[Andy Black]

Start smaller

Don’t start trying to build the next big app, make a few small ones, get them working, make them free, get users.

I wouldn’t say it’s passion but curiosity and interest are required for things like this or you just wouldn’t stick at it or be interested enough for long enough to see results.

Build your experience and confidence from there.

There’s a thread on here at the moment where a guy who’s never run a business wants to start selling a $1500 home appliance that will cost 10k to develop.

Sure that’s a fast lane idea and has a barrier to entry and required domain expertise, but it’s not where someone should start with no experience and no money.

He would be better off starting a business reselling existing appliances, or selling small cheap kitchen gadgets, and then grow from there.

I follow a lot of watch flippers on social media now.

Everyone sees them flipping APs and Pateks and making crazy money and wants to do the same.

They probably say oh I need the domain expertise.

How do you think you get that?

By flipping cheaper watch brands, making mistakes, making money, getting better at negotiating, building clients and before you know it you are gaining confidence and skill and working your way up in the price ranges to more and more expensive deals.

I know a few people on the forum who do ecommerce and what I notice is they all started with a cheap easy product and then took that experience and money and used it to build a better more defensible ecommerce business that required more skill and upfront investment.

I did exactly the same. I started dropshipping crap and once I had it figured out I started ordering in bulk, then I started investing in product development and branding. Now the business is quite defensible.

I didn’t take a bunch of money with no skill and expertise and expect to start a business with a high barrier to entry and domain expertise right out the gate. That just comes naturally with time. You have to start smaller and easier.

Product-Founder fit.

If you can't launch or make a sale in a week/month then do something smaller or different.

 

[Xeon]

Start smaller

Don’t start trying to build the next big app, make a few small ones, get them working, make them free, get users.

I wouldn’t say it’s passion but curiosity and interest are required for things like this or you just wouldn’t stick at it or be interested enough for long enough to see results.

Build your experience and confidence from there.

There’s a thread on here at the moment where a guy who’s never run a business wants to start selling a $1500 home appliance that will cost 10k to develop.

Sure that’s a fast lane idea and has a barrier to entry and required domain expertise, but it’s not where someone should start with no experience and no money.

He would be better off starting a business reselling existing appliances, or selling small cheap kitchen gadgets, and then grow from there.

I follow a lot of watch flippers on social media now.

Everyone sees them flipping APs and Pateks and making crazy money and wants to do the same.

They probably say oh I need the domain expertise.

How do you think you get that?

By flipping cheaper watch brands, making mistakes, making money, getting better at negotiating, building clients and before you know it you are gaining confidence and skill and working your way up in the price ranges to more and more expensive deals.

I know a few people on the forum who do ecommerce and what I notice is they all started with a cheap easy product and then took that experience and money and used it to build a better more defensible ecommerce business that required more skill and upfront investment.

I did exactly the same. I started dropshipping crap and once I had it figured out I started ordering in bulk, then I started investing in product development and branding. Now the business is quite defensible.

I didn’t take a bunch of money with no skill and expertise and expect to start a business with a high barrier to entry and domain expertise right out the gate. That just comes naturally with time. You have to start smaller and easier.

This needs to be pinned, laminated, framed and showcased as the no. 1 post in the list of threads on the FLF homepage!

 

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[mikecarlooch]

Start smaller

Don’t start trying to build the next big app, make a few small ones, get them working, make them free, get users.

I wouldn’t say it’s passion but curiosity and interest are required for things like this or you just wouldn’t stick at it or be interested enough for long enough to see results.

Build your experience and confidence from there.

There’s a thread on here at the moment where a guy who’s never run a business wants to start selling a $1500 home appliance that will cost 10k to develop.

Sure that’s a fast lane idea and has a barrier to entry and required domain expertise, but it’s not where someone should start with no experience and no money.

He would be better off starting a business reselling existing appliances, or selling small cheap kitchen gadgets, and then grow from there.

I follow a lot of watch flippers on social media now.

Everyone sees them flipping APs and Pateks and making crazy money and wants to do the same.

They probably say oh I need the domain expertise.

How do you think you get that?

By flipping cheaper watch brands, making mistakes, making money, getting better at negotiating, building clients and before you know it you are gaining confidence and skill and working your way up in the price ranges to more and more expensive deals.

I know a few people on the forum who do ecommerce and what I notice is they all started with a cheap easy product and then took that experience and money and used it to build a better more defensible ecommerce business that required more skill and upfront investment.

I did exactly the same. I started dropshipping crap and once I had it figured out I started ordering in bulk, then I started investing in product development and branding. Now the business is quite defensible.

I didn’t take a bunch of money with no skill and expertise and expect to start a business with a high barrier to entry and domain expertise right out the gate. That just comes naturally with time. You have to start smaller and easier.

Ok.. This makes a lot of sense too.

I do have small software apps that I built to analyze real estate deals/comps and find new motivated leads. I haven't thought of productizing them however because they are minimal applications made with Python that don't seem highly worthy of publicizing. But what you're saying here is basically saturate the world with your creations, even small ones, and adjust based on feedback. Makes sense. Thanks.

On another note though, it seems like having some insight and knowledge before creating things is still very underrated. If you don't know the foundations, or have any insight, how can you even create something that's differentiated or understand why the differentiating factor in your product is valuable?

 

[Robdavis]

Ok.. This makes a lot of sense too.

I do have small software apps that I built to analyze real estate deals/comps and find new motivated leads. I haven't thought of productizing them however because they are minimal applications made with Python that don't seem highly worthy of publicizing. But what you're saying here is basically saturate the world with your creations, even small ones, and adjust based on feedback. Makes sense. Thanks.

On another note though, it seems like having some insight and knowledge before creating things is still very underrated. If you don't know the foundations, or have any insight, how can you even create something that's differentiated or understand why the differentiating factor in your product is valuable?

Mike, if you know Python, you can sell that skill directly as a freelancer, you could create a Python agency employing other freelancers / staff to sell python programming and / or you could directly try to sell the utilities that you have already created.

So you probably already know enough to get started.


EDIT: With respect to having some insight and knowledge before creating things, I reckon that the amount of "tech" that is involved probably makes a difference.

If the job is "low tech" then you can probably pick up what you want to know very quickly. If the job is high tech. then you will probably need to learn some background before even starting because you might not understand what the product is or does otherwise.

 

[James Klymus]

MJ Posted this a while ago, And I think it applies perfectly to this discussion:

MINDSET - NEWSLETTER - From Dummy to Expert in 6 months...

Imagine having a map to buried treasure, a journey that can change your life in unimaginable magnitude. And yet, after close examination of the map, you decide to sit home and do nothing because the journey looks difficult, or the journey doesn't come with a mentor that will hold your hand...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

He went from no knowledge to expert in deodorant in a few months.

When I hear "domain expertise" I automatically associate that with years and years of experience in a field.

There is no rule that says you can't become an expert on something in a short amount of time. Or, At the very least, Gain ENOUGH knowledge to start. You just have to be a step ahead of somebody to help them.

As @Andy Black would say, "Who can you help this week?"

 

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[Kak]

This is walking a tight line for many readers. This thread could talk a new entrepreneur out of big ambitions if perceived the wrong way. There is a tradition of these misconceptions here at FLF.

Starting small, while often very useful, can also be a great way to end small. Careful.

I favor a one step at a time approach. Each step might be a small win, but make no mistake the steps are aimed upward.

The biggest logical problem with anyone deciding to learn some helplessness from this thread are the under 40 entrepreneurs worth 100 million+. We can all agree that some really dumb people can get social media popular and build a 3-5 million dollar business. But crossing into the 100+ million mark there is serious expertise at play. Yet, there are a lot of them? How did that happen? Don't tell me they were born with domain expertise, yet they have it now.

The answer still is to become the expert. You don't have to wait until you are 57 to learn things. Incredibly related experience is the only experinence that matters. So some guy's 20 years as a mid-level analyst at Exxon doesn't make him better suited to be an oil magnate than a true entrepreneur like @Antifragile. So what if one career was oil adjacent and the other wasnt. The mountain moving entrepreneurial effort wins. I'd put my money on @Antifragile with 6 months of diving in to the truly relevant, over that analyist's 20 years of modestly relevant work in a heartbeat.

My point is, don't go thinking you are advancing your fastlane dreams while looking at the top floor from the ground.

 

[Kevin88660]

Establishing entry is not just learning or having experience.

There are a lot of dentists with 20 years experience. That doesn’t make it a defensible moat.

It is about doing what others can’t do. It can be a single variable feat. It can be a multi-variables skew. It must be hard so that very few in the same industry could replicate.

In singapore there is a top bullion dealer who monopolise the business for most serious buyers. They offer the cheapest retail price. The open secret is because they purchase in bulk of 1000 bars instead of the competitors who do in 100. Key word is scale. That’s a single variable feat. It kind of sounds easy but there must be something that is hard to replicate since so many could not do it.

There are cheap food. There are healthy food. There are tasty food. Very very few can be all 3. There is a sandwich chain that always got sold out of stocks. They sell 450 calories sandwich that is quite tasty, priced between 7-8 dollar. I would say they score 8 in taste, 8 in nutrition and 7 in pricing, out of 10. That is already an impossible trinity to hit.

Experience and domain experience does not necessarily ensure you escaping out of the rat race, if you are doing and training like everyone else, and there are thousands of providers indistinguishable from one another.

 

[mikecarlooch]

This is walking a tight line for many readers. This thread could talk a new entrepreneur out of big ambitions if perceived the wrong way. There is a tradition of these misconceptions here at FLF.

Starting small, while often very useful, can also be a great way to end small. Careful.

I favor a one step at a time approach. Each step might be a small win, but make no mistake the steps are aimed upward.

The biggest logical problem with anyone deciding to learn some helplessness from this thread are the under 40 entrepreneurs worth 100 million+. We can all agree that some really dumb people can get social media popular and build a 3-5 million dollar business. But crossing into the 100+ million mark there is serious expertise at play. Yet, there are a lot of them? How did that happen? Don't tell me they were born with domain expertise, yet they have it now.

The answer still is to become the expert. You don't have to wait until you are 57 to learn things. Incredibly related experience is the only experinence that matters. So some guy's 20 years as a mid-level analyist at Exxon doesn't make him better suited to be an oil magnate than a true entrepreneur like @Antifragile. So what if one career was oil adjacent and the other wasnt. The mountain moving entrepreneurial effort wins. I'd put my money on @Antifragile with 6 months of diving in to the truly relevant, over that analyist's 20 years of modestly relevant work in a heartbeat.

My point is, don't go thinking you are advancing your fastlane dreams with some look at the top floor from the ground.

This is what I'm trying to understand. How those huge companies start, and how they eventually become worth a hundred million from nothing. Some of the "small" stuff seems like it's leading to a perpetual couple hundred grand a year as a goal or something like that. How are the BIG things started.. That's my interest..

I'm showering you with a lot of questions Kyle.. sorry lol:

It seems you're a bit iffy with how the thread is turning out with those saying to start small.

I know there are no 1-10 steps in business like you said, those 1-10 businesses are just undifferentiated commodity BS.

But to drive it home for us young people who want to build something big, let me put you in a scenario.

You decide, without current expertise in the industry, to start a business that you intend to make very large, say, deodorant (like in MJ's thread). You know nothing. I'm not necessarily asking what would you do, but what would you NOT do? and What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

Tagging @Antifragile @Kung Fu Steve @WestCoast @amp0193 @Johnny boy @Andy Black @biophase @BizyDad @Envision @MJ DeMarco and others to also make a response to this prompt (only if you want to of course, I'm just very curious and I'm sure others following this thread are too!)

 

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[biophase]

This is what I'm trying to understand. How those huge companies start, and how they eventually become worth a hundred million from nothing. Some of the "small" stuff seems like it's leading to a perpetual couple hundred grand a year as a goal or something like that. How are the BIG things started.. That's my interest..

I'm showering you with a lot of questions Kyle.. sorry lol:

It seems you're a bit iffy with how the thread is turning out with those saying to start small.

I know there are no 1-10 steps in business like you said, those 1-10 businesses are just undifferentiated commodity BS.

But to drive it home for us young people who want to build something big, let me put you in a scenario.

You decide, without current expertise in the industry, to start a business that you intend to make very large, say, deodorant (like in MJ's thread). You know nothing. I'm not necessarily asking what would you do, but what would you NOT do? and What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

Tagging @Antifragile @Kung Fu Steve @WestCoast @amp0193 @Johnny boy @Andy Black @biophase @BizyDad @Envision @MJ DeMarco and others to also make a response to this prompt (only if you want to of course, I'm just very curious and I'm sure others following this thread are too!)

I would suggest listening to podcasts on how Native deodorant started. This is exactly what you’re asking

Just some quotes below from other websites.

“When Native founder Moiz Ali randomly checked out the ingredient label on his antiperspirant, he couldn’t have known that it would be a pivotal moment in his life. What began as a curiosity about aluminum turned into a mission to make clean deodorant that could go head to head—err, pit to pit—with antiperspirants.”

“It isn’t rocket science, but boy did it work. By his own admission, Moiz knew almost nothing about the deodorant space when he founded Native - but he did know a little about business, and a lot about people.

Rather than exhaust time and money on lengthy R&D, he figured the quickest way to find out if there was a market for his product was to try and sell it. To pull this off, speed of execution was key, and Native’s profile as a lean, frugal, early stage business fitted this necessity perfectly. They got into operation mode from day one and put an early version of their natural, toxin free, ethical deodorant in front of the market.”

 

[MJ DeMarco]

You decide, without current expertise in the industry, to start a business that you intend to make very large, say, deodorant (like in MJ's thread). You know nothing. I'm not necessarily asking what would you do, but what would you NOT do? and What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

You're asking what weapon to take with you in the forest and insist on knowing the dangers in the forest before stepping inside.

If you have no clue what I'm referencing, you'll find the story in Unscripted (Book 2).

 

[BizyDad]

This is what I'm trying to understand. How those huge companies start, and how they eventually become worth a hundred million from nothing. Some of the "small" stuff seems like it's leading to a perpetual couple hundred grand a year as a goal or something like that. How are the BIG things started.. That's my interest..

I'm showering you with a lot of questions Kyle.. sorry lol:

It seems you're a bit iffy with how the thread is turning out with those saying to start small.

I know there are no 1-10 steps in business like you said, those 1-10 businesses are just undifferentiated commodity BS.

But to drive it home for us young people who want to build something big, let me put you in a scenario.

You decide, without current expertise in the industry, to start a business that you intend to make very large, say, deodorant (like in MJ's thread). You know nothing. I'm not necessarily asking what would you do, but what would you NOT do? and What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

Tagging @Antifragile @Kung Fu Steve @WestCoast @amp0193 @Johnny boy @Andy Black @biophase @BizyDad @Envision @MJ DeMarco and others to also make a response to this prompt (only if you want to of course, I'm just very curious and I'm sure others following this thread are too!)

What is the problem you are trying to solve?
How are you going to solve it?
Who do you need to tell about the solution?
How are you going to let them know?

That's what you focus on...

And I feel cheap adding this, but all credit goes to @Kak

This is my paraphrase of his words...

If you want a bigger bank account, start solving bigger problems.

 

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[mikecarlooch]

You're asking what weapon to take with you in the forest and insist on knowing the dangers in the forest before stepping inside.

If you have no clue what I'm referencing, you'll find the story in Unscripted (Book 2).

In essence I’m trying to predict the unpredictable. Even after reading unscripted 3 times. Yes understood, I see the problem here. Thanks MJ.

 

[Antifragile]

I'm not necessarily asking what would you do, but what would you NOT do? and What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

A different angle here...

If you want to build big things, stop thinking about building big things.

Get good at living the absolute best and most productive life.
Do things today that will make your tomorrow easier and better.

Continue to educate yourself on different subjects. Continue to experiment and test markets and listen to the feedback. Take care of your mindset, health etc. Adjust, pivot when needed, double down on what works and do more of that. Do less of what doesn't work.

Be productive, not busy. I think the real trick behind doing BIGGER things is just having the clarity of mind. Seeing the world as it is, not as we want it to be. This makes it possible to spot things others miss and fill that niche. The less we are preoccupied with "busy/unproductive" activities, the more we are free to pursue and become better at bigger things.

Domain experience comes from doing deep meaningful work. At first it feels like you know all you need by "a 3 months in the field experience..." or "a book you read...", but only later you start feeling like a fraud. That's because you didn't even know what you didn't know! Once you start getting some of that domain experience The Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in.



You need confidence to do BIG things, but with some competence, you feel like all the world's big problems in every field have been solved! Your confidence hits a low before it starts climbing again.

That's when you are most likely to start seeing things that are missing. Ideally by then you've also amassed an army of skills:

• Legal for your deal making
• Employment (hiring, firing, managing staff, scaling)
• High finance (raising funds, borrowing debt, going public etc)
• Marketing and Sales
• Execution on creating new products

With those skills and effective execution you start hitting big results quickly. That's what "Fastlane" looks like. And this is also why it's not luck anymore. You can replicate it. Sure a few things won't go as planned, but you can correct and hit hard again and again. Odds are greatly tilted in your favour.

 

[machinistguy]

This is what I'm trying to understand. How those huge companies start, and how they eventually become worth a hundred million from nothing. Some of the "small" stuff seems like it's leading to a perpetual couple hundred grand a year as a goal or something like that. How are the BIG things started.. That's my interest..

Your post reminds me of Peter Thiel's Zero to One. If you're trying to copy how other companies became massive you'll fail because each situation is unique. You don't have the same strengths/weaknesses as the other founder, not the same industry, not the same customers, not the same period in history, etc... Make your own decisions

"All happy companies are different."
"If you are copying these guys, you aren’t learning from them."

As for the starting small, you're goal is to achieve a productocracy (MJ)/monopoly(Thiel). You can't achieve that in a massive market if you have no knowledge or resources, but you can achieve that in a small market the big boys don't bother with. So the goal is to dominate small then scale.

 

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[Panos Daras]

First of all , thank you everyone for the responses, I really appreciate them and look forward to getting back to replying soon..

I wanted to understand deeper on this response, so I used ChatGPT to do so and I think it builds on top of what @Antifragile said here very well.. ( read below )




From ChatGPT after inputting AF's response:

1. Learning the Fundamentals (Education): Initially, you're investing in education by taking in knowledge. This step provides you with a solid foundation of theoretical knowledge, teaching you the principles, tools, and concepts related to your desired field.
2. Getting in the Field (Doing): However, domain expertise doesn't stop at just acquiring knowledge. To truly become an expert, you need to apply what you've learned in practical scenarios. This means working on real-world projects, utilizing the skills you've gained, and actively engaging with the industry.
3. Hands-On Experience (Experience Matters): As you start working on projects, you'll encounter unique challenges and complexities that may not have been covered in your course. This hands-on experience is where true expertise is cultivated. You'll learn to adapt, troubleshoot, and innovate as you face real issues.
4. Iterative Learning (Trial and Error): Along the way, you'll likely encounter situations where your textbook knowledge doesn't provide an immediate solution. This is where you experiment, try different approaches, and learn from your mistakes. This iterative process is a vital part of gaining domain expertise.
5. Continuous Improvement: Over time, your understanding of your desired industry will evolve. You'll build a deep understanding of the industry, its nuances, and its specific challenges. This ongoing process of learning and improving is how you develop domain expertise.
6. Becoming the Best: With persistent effort, you can become one of the best in your chosen industry. You'll be well-equipped to start your successful startup because you've combined education with practical experience, and you've learned to adapt and innovate in a rapidly changing field.

Yes, this is supremely helpful. Thank you and I think this also sums up the point @Kak @Johnny boy @amp0193 @Black_Dragon43 @Andy Black are wanting to get across to me here. Thanks guys.

Nothing to add here but just an observation.

Please ask ChatGPT 4 better questions. Better questions lead to better answers!

This way you can challenge your OWN beliefs. This is very important in life.

I do this all the time and it has helped me tremendously.

Example:

Panos: (I copied and pasted the original post) I want the understand where the person can be right or wrong and why

Chat:

Absolutely, let's dissect where the author of the post may be right or wrong, based on facts and logic.

Where the Author May Be Right:​

1. Importance of Domain Expertise: The author argues that domain expertise is essential for success, especially for solving complex problems. This is generally supported by business literature and case studies. Specialized knowledge can provide a competitive edge.
2. Low-Barrier Entry & Saturation: The point about many "marketing agencies" popping up because of low entry barriers is valid. The easier it is to enter a market, the more saturated and competitive it becomes, often diluting quality.
3. Delegation Limits: While delegation is crucial in scaling a business, the author is right that you can't effectively delegate tasks if you lack fundamental understanding of the industry or the problem you're solving.
4. Investor Skepticism: The claim that investors are unlikely to back an entrepreneur with zero experience in a domain is generally true. Most investors look for a team with a proven track record or at least domain expertise.
5. Customer Understanding: Knowing your customer’s pain points intimately is generally seen as a precursor to business success.

Where the Author May Be Wrong:​

1. Overemphasis on Domain Expertise: While expertise is important, many successful entrepreneurs have entered fields in which they were not experts but were able to learn quickly or team up with experts. Adaptability and a willingness to learn are also key traits of successful entrepreneurs.
2. Barrier to Entry: The author seems to suggest that you need deep industry knowledge to even start. This could discourage aspiring entrepreneurs. Many successful businesses have started as side projects or from skills learned "on the job."
3. One-Size-Fits-All: The post leans towards a generalization that you absolutely need domain expertise in all kinds of businesses. The necessity can vary depending on the industry, type of business, and the problem being solved.
4. Undervaluing Other Skills: The focus on domain expertise might overshadow other essential entrepreneurial skills like sales, networking, and financial management.
5. Negative Tone: The somewhat ranty tone could discourage some readers. While the author aims to challenge conventional wisdom, the negativity could deter action, which is often the first step in any entrepreneurial journey.

In summary, the author raises some valid concerns about the role of domain expertise in entrepreneurship but may overemphasize its importance to the exclusion of other factors. Entrepreneurship is a multi-faceted endeavor, and while domain expertise is undoubtedly important, it's not the only variable in the equation for success.
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What I would take as a takeaway from all this is that in the future really avoid blanket statements like the plague. Most of the time they do not apply. Especially in the world of business that is messy by default.

 

[amp0193]

You decide, without current expertise in the industry, to start a business that you intend to make very large, say, deodorant (like in MJ's thread). You know nothing.

Moiz Ali knew nothing about deodorant (supposedly). Then created one of the largest deodorant brands: Moiz Ali's story of starting a natural deodorant company. | Codie A. Sanchez posted on the topic | LinkedIn).

What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

Not quitting. Odds of success are greater if you don't quit when you hit roadblocks and it gets hard. Plan to invest 10 years or more. Unless you are already starting with the 5 skills @Antifragile listed in bullet points above. Then maybe faster, but there's still going to be a lot of unknowns to tackle once you start digging in.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Start smaller

Don’t start trying to build the next big app, make a few small ones, get them working, make them free, get users.

I wouldn’t say it’s passion but curiosity and interest are required for things like this or you just wouldn’t stick at it or be interested enough for long enough to see results.

Build your experience and confidence from there.

There’s a thread on here at the moment where a guy who’s never run a business wants to start selling a $1500 home appliance that will cost 10k to develop.

Sure that’s a fast lane idea and has a barrier to entry and required domain expertise, but it’s not where someone should start with no experience and no money.

He would be better off starting a business reselling existing appliances, or selling small cheap kitchen gadgets, and then grow from there.

I follow a lot of watch flippers on social media now.

Everyone sees them flipping APs and Pateks and making crazy money and wants to do the same.

They probably say oh I need the domain expertise.

How do you think you get that?

By flipping cheaper watch brands, making mistakes, making money, getting better at negotiating, building clients and before you know it you are gaining confidence and skill and working your way up in the price ranges to more and more expensive deals.

I know a few people on the forum who do ecommerce and what I notice is they all started with a cheap easy product and then took that experience and money and used it to build a better more defensible ecommerce business that required more skill and upfront investment.

I did exactly the same. I started dropshipping crap and once I had it figured out I started ordering in bulk, then I started investing in product development and branding. Now the business is quite defensible.

I didn’t take a bunch of money with no skill and expertise and expect to start a business with a high barrier to entry and domain expertise right out the gate. That just comes naturally with time. You have to start smaller and easier.

This is a gold post. I had stepped out of this discussion, but this is worth pointing out.

A business metamorphoses through several different business models as it develops and grows.

The problem is that people see the end product, try to mimic it, and fail… because that’s not how the end product was created in the first place.

Everything had a different purpose initially. And through iterative evolution, it morphed into what you see today. Things start out shitty.

When I started working with agency owners, I worked with people 1 on 1. And I had no materials, no methodology, no nothing. It was purely trying to solve problems.

All the rest developed organically. If someone else jumps to doing what I’m doing today, they will not succeed, for the simple reason that my business today is in a very different place than 2 years ago, and hence requires very different means of development.

 

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[Kak]

It's not fake it until you make it. It is legitimately becoming who you need to be. Make no mistake that elephant isn't actually stuck there. Neither are any of you... Well, maybe a few of you are.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

You decide, without current expertise in the industry, to start a business that you intend to make very large, say, deodorant (like in MJ's thread). You know nothing. I'm not necessarily asking what would you do, but what would you NOT do? and What aspects would you FOCUS on in order to make yourself successful there with no prior expertise?

If I was a 20-year old, I’d not really have a choice, since I don’t have any experience. So whatever I’d start in, I’d gain experience. Reading about it, talking to people, getting a job (only in my @Antifragile persona), finding and helping people, whatever. In a certain sense, at 20, the world is your oyster, you can do anything, precisely because you’re a beginner at everything, so you don’t lose anything by picking something else.

If I am myself today, at 30 — I’d not start a deodorant business or anything that I don’t have experience in. I have no interest to compete in something I don’t have “unfair” advantages in, to use the term @Antifragile (me) loves.

Instead, if I had to start a new business today, I’d orient myself towards something where my existing experience could help in. I’ve been in the agency world for 12-years now, give or take. If starting from scratch today, I don’t think I’d go into this world again, but rather I’d use those skills probably with some ecommerce, physical product business, maybe B2B too.

Selling to big businesses, large volume, 1 client = tons of money, biggest challenge is to sell, not to fulfil, over time it’s a matter of building your network which becomes your competitive advantage.

Yes, I’d have things to learn. And also things I already know how to do. I’d learn the ones I need step by step. For example, I have no clue how to do a pitch presentation since I never had to. I’d research it, ask people who have done it, and so on. Same for contacting those executives and so on.

In other words, pick a direction aligned with your experience (if you have any), then figure out the next step and what you need to do.

 

[mikecarlooch]

I think a lot of advice given in this thread is absolutely life-changing.

Thank you all for your contributions again. It has been and will be in the future extraordinarily helpful.

I will always come back to this thread when feeling off about what to do.

 

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[mikecarlooch]

A different angle here...

If you want to build big things, stop thinking about building big things.

Get good at living the absolute best and most productive life.
Do things today that will make your tomorrow easier and better.

Continue to educate yourself on different subjects. Continue to experiment and test markets and listen to the feedback. Take care of your mindset, health etc. Adjust, pivot when needed, double down on what works and do more of that. Do less of what doesn't work.

Gold.. so basically..

Learned knowledge applied creates specific knowledge (aka domain expertise)

Be productive, not busy. I think the real trick behind doing BIGGER things is just having the clarity of mind. Seeing the world as it is, not as we want it to be. This makes it possible to spot things others miss and fill that niche. The less we are preoccupied with "busy/unproductive" activities, the more we are free to pursue and become better at bigger things.

I like your approach here. It feels very practical.

Exposing myself to new technologies and embracing curiosity has brought clarity of mind, and with that the feeling like I can apply the knowledge to new things. And through it I've spotted endless opportunities that can be solved.

Domain experience comes from doing deep meaningful work. At first it feels like you know all you need by "a 3 months in the field experience..." or "a book you read...", but only later you start feeling like a fraud. That's because you didn't even know what you didn't know! Once you start getting some of that domain experience The Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in.

View attachment 51977

You need confidence to do BIG things, but with some competence, you feel like all the world's big problems in every field have been solved! Your confidence hits a low before it starts climbing again.

You also have a very interesting perspective here that I've not heard of much as well.. If I'm not mistaken you're saying that as you become more competent, you get more of an unfair advantage, but at the same time you don't take up opportunities because someone is already doing it.

 

[mikecarlooch]

If I was a 20-year old, I’d not really have a choice, since I don’t have any experience. So whatever I’d start in, I’d gain experience. Reading about it, talking to people, getting a job (only in my @Antifragile persona), finding and helping people, whatever. In a certain sense, at 20, the world is your oyster, you can do anything, precisely because you’re a beginner at everything, so you don’t lose anything by picking something else.

If I am myself today, at 30 — I’d not start a deodorant business or anything that I don’t have experience in. I have no interest to compete in something I don’t have “unfair” advantages in, to use the term @Antifragile (me) loves.

Instead, if I had to start a new business today, I’d orient myself towards something where my existing experience could help in. I’ve been in the agency world for 12-years now, give or take. If starting from scratch today, I don’t think I’d go into this world again, but rather I’d use those skills probably with some ecommerce, physical product business, maybe B2B too.

Selling to big businesses, large volume, 1 client = tons of money, biggest challenge is to sell, not to fulfil, over time it’s a matter of building your network which becomes your competitive advantage.

Yes, I’d have things to learn. And also things I already know how to do. I’d learn the ones I need step by step. For example, I have no clue how to do a pitch presentation since I never had to. I’d research it, ask people who have done it, and so on. Same for contacting those executives and so on.

In other words, pick a direction aligned with your experience (if you have any), then figure out the next step and what you need to do.

Thanks. I really like how you put this. you seem to be of the belief that having a curiosity and some skin in the game in an industry is pretty important like I was saying originally.

 

[mikecarlooch]

Moiz Ali knew nothing about deodorant (supposedly). Then created one of the largest deodorant brands: Moiz Ali's story of starting a natural deodorant company. | Codie A. Sanchez posted on the topic | LinkedIn).


Not quitting. Odds of success are greater if you don't quit when you hit roadblocks and it gets hard. Plan to invest 10 years or more. Unless you are already starting with the 5 skills @Antifragile listed in bullet points above. Then maybe faster, but there's still going to be a lot of unknowns to tackle once you start digging in.

It's very clarifying the way you think on a long term perspective. I get anxious thinking in 2-4 year terms but a 10 year horizon feels like there's much more time for going deep and creating lasting value.

 

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[mikecarlooch]

Your post reminds me of Peter Thiel's Zero to One. If you're trying to copy how other companies became massive you'll fail because each situation is unique. You don't have the same strengths/weaknesses as the other founder, not the same industry, not the same customers, not the same period in history, etc... Make your own decisions

Nailed it.

"All happy companies are different."
"If you are copying these guys, you aren’t learning from them."

As for the starting small, you're goal is to achieve a productocracy (MJ)/monopoly(Thiel). You can't achieve that in a massive market if you have no knowledge or resources, but you can achieve that in a small market the big boys don't bother with. So the goal is to dominate small then scale.

I always forget that even Peter Thiel says to start small...

Thanks for bringing this up

 

[MitchC]

Native deodorant keeps being mentioned here and ironically it is the perfect example

Moiz who founded it can tell all the stories about how he wanted to change the deodorant industry and world and make everyone healthy and did all this research and became an expert in deodorant he wants but none of that is true

Moiz went on Etsy and saw what was selling

He was looking for a small product that was cheap to ship so he could make some money

He picked natural deodorant because it was small, had good margins, good repeat purchases, and was one of the most popular products on Etsy

He ordered a bunch, tested them and picked the best

He then set up a Shopify store and posted in on product hunt

He got a few 100 sales in the first day

Then he ran Facebook ads and scaled

Eventually the Etsy lady who was supplying him said this is too much for me to handle I just wanted to sell a few deodorants online not become a deodorant factory, so he bought the recipe from her and started getting it made by a manufacturer

Yes, he started and scaled his business by having a lady from etsy private label her products for him, he didn’t even know what her recipe was, and it sounds like he didn’t think to change to a manufacturer or find out what her recipe was until she said I can’t do this anymore

He didn’t run ads with a huge budget on day 1 and spend 1000s testing until they’re worked, he posted on product hunt, and probably told his friends and posted on reddit etc to get a few sales, plus he picked something that was already validated on Etsy, he didn’t invent something new that wasn’t already selling

When he sold it to proctor and gamble or whoever bought it, he didn’t even have the trademark, he had to pay someone who was squatting on it some stupid amount to get it

The logo and name is the same as a cafe local to him

The guy did not spend 6 months action faking in his room reading about deodorant recipes

He literally picked like the easiest money making idea he could find and the easiest and fastest way to market and just grew it from there