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roguehillbilly

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I've been really curious about "Rank and Rent" Lead-Gen lately. I've found a course on it but from what I could find online it's 6,000 F*cking dollars!

For the uninitiated:
Create a website for a local business niche eg "Louisville Locksmiths"
Rank the Site on Google
Fwd calls from the landing page to the business owner and charge them on a per lead or monthly basis. There is software that will do this and track things.
Profit -- do it again.

I'm sure I probably sound uninformed because this business model has been around for many years.
It seems like a pretty solid business model but I don't think $6k is warranted. I have some experience already with prospecting, making an offer and closing it.

I've done a search here and found a bit of content I'm working through but I want more.
Looking to learn a bit more about this business model, what do you guys know?
What are some good resources for learning SEO and lead-gen? Is this still viable? ( I think so )
 

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roguehillbilly

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You'd be better off building affiliate sites for yourself then creating sites in the hope of 'renting' them to technically unsavvy business owners.

Same skillset for sure. Why do you think business owners wouldn't buy? You don't really need to be tech-savvy. Just curious, not doubting!
 

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roguehillbilly

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MHP368

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I just failed at this. Best I got one was page 4 after 6 months. Called it in. Those PBN's aren't free.

I agree with the other poster about affiliate if anything to do with SERP's and SEO , better to be on the multibillion dollar conglomerates side then trying to grey hat things.

In a game of cat and mouse , dont be the mouse
 

mws87

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Rank & Rent is thrown around a lot these days. Are you referring to using a lightbox plugin to overlay your client's site on top of yours? Or are you referring to ranking a page and selling the leads (lead generation)?

Here's the thing everyone screws up: call businesses first and get their interest. There's no point in ranking properties and having nobody to sell the leads to.

It's a lucrative industry but needs to be done properly. Don't look at it as black & white as "get plumbing site ranked, sell plumbing leads". There are tons of different angles you can take to get success.

I like taking the approach of building up local businesses/brands, getting them ranked and selling the leads via call tracking.
 

roguehillbilly

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Rank & Rent is thrown around a lot these days. Are you referring to using a lightbox plugin to overlay your client's site on top of yours? Or are you referring to ranking a page and selling the leads (lead generation)?
The latter, I have no idea what the first is about.

I like taking the approach of building up local businesses/brands, getting them ranked and selling the leads via call tracking.
I'm confused -- didn't you say that is the wrong approach?

I agree with the other poster about affiliate if anything to do with SERP's and SEO , better to be on the multibillion dollar conglomerates side then trying to grey hat things.
In a game of cat and mouse , dont be the mouse
I think this is sharp, many of these courses and things are def gaming things. Not the right approach.
 

MHP368

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think this is sharp, many of these courses and things are def gaming things. Not the right approach.

Right , you're basically skimming off the top of service businesses who have poor web skills , not adding value. I think thats why I couldn't get my head into it , why not just start an SEO agency and go legit if you have the skillset?

Those gurus make it seem easy too but even neil patel can't work miracles , its gonna take time and resources (money) yo maybe have an "asset" that can then evaporate overnight once google catches up.

I learned some stuff though.
 

mws87

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I'm confused -- didn't you say that is the wrong approach?
No. I find interested parties then build out my platforms. I was more referring to the actual "renting" part of it rather than an entire step-by-step process.

Whatever you choose to do — affiliate, lead gen, r&r, whatever — just stick with it. So many people in this industry hop from idea to idea without investing the proper resources (time & money), only to throw up their arms and declare "this shit don't work!". It does work.

Plan for the long game with whatever path you take.
 

Primeperiwinkle

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You talking about a course that starts with the letters JK?

If so they’re a scam. They make almost double their profit from selling their course (based on Weebly, not Wordpress) to ppl.
 

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MattR82

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I lived with a guy in Bali that did this for concreters and the like in Australia (he's an ex concreter).

Made pretty good money for a few hours work per day, but took him like 3 to 4 years or something like that of grinding for about 500 bucks a month.

He now knows seo really well, builds his own pbns etc, but the money sites don't look great (he's no web dev/designer). Still, seo was enough.

I get the impression he doesn't feel very secure about it lasting a long time.
 

GoodluckChuck

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I did this before but neither I nor my clients liked how my listing and website had to have a fake name. It seems shady.

Another thing I don't like about this model is that Google is cracking down on it hard. They don't want fake GMB listings out there. It devalues the entire platform.
 

roguehillbilly

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You talking about a course that starts with the letters JK?

If so they’re a scam. They make almost double their profit from selling their course (based on Weebly, not Wordpress) to ppl.
That's the one -- they apparently rebranded recently. I ended up picking up a Udemy course for 10 bucks. I think the model definitely sounds interesting. What other info do you know? Can you pm me?

I get the impression he doesn't feel very secure about it lasting a long time.
Yeah, honestly I'm not sure I would either.

Another thing I don't like about this model is that Google is cracking down on it hard. They don't want fake GMB listings out there. It devalues the entire platform.
That's a fair point, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing lead-gen but yeah it is a bit sketchy
 

Primeperiwinkle

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SEO is like bad crack to me dude.. I went down the rabbit hole on this one waaaaaay faster than I should have.

“Rabbit Hole” = Every fb group that has SEO in it has a course. Every SEO tool has a course. Every SEO agency loves to brag about their mad skills to a blonde chick.

Suffice to say.. if you learn how to use hosting that’s not GoDaddy, build a good looking site on Wordpress, comprehend Google Analytics and can understand Ahrefs enough to explain it to other ppl while you search your competitor‘s sites for backlinks you’ll be ahead of 95% of everybody who takes that course.

But you STILL won’t make any money unless you can sell.

Annnnnnnd one Google update can undo everything you just built.

Good luck.
 

daniel_m

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I've (successfully) built out and ranked several sites for this business model and there are several reasons why I won't be continuing and why I wouldn't recommend you start.

1. The piece of the pie is not as big as you might think it is
If you've checked the search volume for any "keyword + city" in a major locality, you might be encouraged and think that you can just rank to #1 and take up the majority of the traffic. But it doesn't work that way - there are going to be 4 ads being shown at the top first, then 3 map-pack listings (sometimes 4, with an ad) and then the remaining traffic goes to any of the top 3 organic results, usually. So while you might see the search volume as a couple of thousand in any given city, realistically even the top 3 positions don't yield as much traffic as you might expect. Getting top 3 organic is also a whole different ball game than just getting to the first page, which isn't easy for most people to begin with. Google is making their search engine more and more ad-heavy (and recently they rolled out an update that almost makes the ads look like organic results).

2. SEO is almost always a pain in the a$$ for new sites
I'm going to assume here that you're going to be building out new sites on new domains from scratch. If this is true, you can easily expect to wait a minimum of 6 months - a year just to sniff the first or second page, and of course - it's not guaranteed you'll even get there. Site age is one of the most important factors out there - just go ahead and check the WHOIS of all the top 10 organic results for whatever local keyword you'd have in mind. If it's a keyword worth ranking for, I'd bet that almost each and every one of those sites is over 5 years old, and probably many even 10+ years old. It's just the way it is most of the time and unless you're going to be buying a premium aged domain with relevant links, a new site is going to have a really tough time ranking.

3. Business Owners Are More Savvy
In 2020 business owners are way, way more knowledgable in this space than they were 10 years ago. They've already been spammed to death from Indian callers about "Google marketing" and "Facebook Advertising". They know what SEO is and how it works. I've spoken to a nearly 70 year old dude and he understood pretty much everything I was saying which was pretty shocking. Obviously not all of them are that experienced with this stuff, but many of them know that they can just buy ads directly from Google for $10, $20, or something in that range. Even if they do buy your leads, it won't be for much more than market value.

4. The fake business name ordeal
It's not really that big of a deal and there are still lots of business owners that don't really care that much about this, but you will meet the occasional guy who will be real butthurt about the fact that you built out a fake business and are generating more buzz in a year than his 10 year old business is lol. Some are against it - I'd say this is the least of your worries if you're going down this path.


I agree with @Sebastya for sure. If you have the skills to rank, then there's no denying that affiliate sites are significantly more profitable than ranking for local businesses. Unless you're going to sub-contract or build out the business yourself, I'd say that for the most part it's not worth it.

If you decide to continue down this route make sure you're picking your niche very, very wisely. Don't go for the cheap or low margin stuff like pest control or small repairs that require high volume. You need to go for the high-ticket stuff like masonry or asbestos/mold removal.
 

roguehillbilly

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If you decide to continue down this route make sure you're picking your niche very, very wisely. Don't go for the cheap or low margin stuff like pest control or small repairs that require high volume. You need to go for the high-ticket stuff like masonry or asbestos/mold removal.
Awesome overview! Do you think that working managing google ads as Andy mentioned would be a better path?
 

daniel_m

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Awesome overview! Do you think that working managing google ads as Andy mentioned would be a better path?

I'd say so, but you'd have to know how to sell to pull it off. Something like this requires an upfront investment from the business owner as opposed to post-paying for the leads after they've already made their money. It's certainly more scalable.
 

roguehillbilly

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I'd say so, but you'd have to know how to sell to pull it off. Something like this requires an upfront investment from the business owner as opposed to post-paying for the leads after they've already made their money. It's certainly more scalable.
Thanks, I’ll be looking into this more. I won’t say I’m a sales expert but I know a little and I’m not afraid to learn
 

DaRK9

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Not worth it imo. Google has been ranking real business higher recently and with rank and rent the websites are thin. (Yes I know it’s possible to rank a thin site but takes a lot more)

I ranked a one pager for several plastic surgery searches in a large city with decent volume.

Even ranking #1 over yelp and directory sites I only got 5% of the traffic. GMB tends to swallow up a lot of service based terms and people don’t even make it to the SERPS.
 

Kristjan

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I've been working with local business owners for the last 4 years and let me tell you that all of them need leads. This business model got me hooked from day one because it checks all the boxes.
You own the leads, results in advance (no selling required), seo wise - competing with local plumbers and electricians, local business owners only know how to buy Google ads and that's it, compare that with affiliate marketing (good luck with that), 90% of clients of mine I have never met because there is no need for it, somewhat passive income, scaleable, long term, seo is hard which keeps competition far away, list goes on. Sure it takes time and money from you at the beginning and I'm not saying it's easy but very doable. Hey even M.J. Started with local leadgen :)
 

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Daniel.

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SEO is like bad crack to me dude.. I went down the rabbit hole on this one waaaaaay faster than I should have.

“Rabbit Hole” = Every fb group that has SEO in it has a course. Every SEO tool has a course. Every SEO agency loves to brag about their mad skills to a blonde chick.

Suffice to say.. if you learn how to use hosting that’s not GoDaddy, build a good looking site on Wordpress, comprehend Google Analytics and can understand Ahrefs enough to explain it to other ppl while you search your competitor‘s sites for backlinks you’ll be ahead of 95% of everybody who takes that course.

But you STILL won’t make any money unless you can sell.

Annnnnnnd one Google update can undo everything you just built.

Good luck.

Agreed, there is so much BS in the SEO industry that it is insane. Everyone is talking about backlinks this or that, it's all crap if at the end of the day if the prospect does NOT convert to a client. The point of SEO is to be put in front of people that are interested in your product/service and turning them into customers.

Business owners don't give a crap about the inner workings of SEO (they shouldn't) all they care about is if they invest a dollar, pull a lever, and get 2-3 dollars out of it. Too many people are focused on the metrics that don't matter "I'm ranking for this" but are those rankings converting? It doesn't matter if you're ranking great for keywords when those same keywords aren't making the phone ring.

"Annnnnnnd one Google update can undo everything you just built."
- I disagree here, if one does clean SEO and not anything shady - you will not get penalized. Once you start buying shitty backlinks off someone on Fiverr or playing with strategies that aren't aligned with proper SEO guidelines, then you will get dinged.

There are groups dedicated to finding loopholes, which sooner than later get found. Do you think you can outsmart a team of Google search engineers? C'mon. SEO is a long game and there are business owners that understand and others that don't.
 

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I started a business with this model.

I sold a business with this model for a modest sum.

I absolutely hate this business model.

Maybe that's an indicator for ya, but it is population n=1.
 

GoodluckChuck

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I prefer the rank for my business method. With solid SEO skills it's very simple to generate customers for any local business.
 

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