Need help with pricing/negotiating

[DVU]

I got an answer from the email that I posted above

"
Hi Domagoj -


Thanks for the quote on adjusted pricing. We will review our options over the next couple of weeks.


As we already have more work than resources, the top priority is design and show casing our existing work (vs getting new clients).

"
Should I write anything back or just wait?

 

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[Utopia]

How is this negotiating, and my post is duping?


Genuinely asking. I liked your post, so maybe there's something I don't understand.

The way I see this most times is when someone sells something like a web development service and then underperforms because the price isn't enough. You probably didn't mean it this way, but this doesn't work well in business. People reward when you do things well for them, generally, just wanted to make that point.

I got an answer from the email that I posted above

"
Hi Domagoj -


Thanks for the quote on adjusted pricing. We will review our options over the next couple of weeks.


As we already have more work than resources, the top priority is design and show casing our existing work (vs getting new clients).

"
Should I write anything back or just wait?

He just communicated an important need to you.

He does not have the time mess with this or the interest to do so. I'm not sure how exactly this will show up in the business that he is doing, but the best you can do for him is communicate this need being met for him without him having to do anything. Simple is king here. He will not be looking for a 10 page paper on why your company is best, but he wants to know that you will take care of everything and he won't have to spend doing things he doesn't care about (web development, probably that whole process).

Showing up with technical terms such as SEO, SEM, and other things are likely to only hinder any kind of connection this man has with what he needs and what you will provide. Such things as "You will be seen more by the people who want your products, without you having to do hardly any extra work." Will be much more effective if you can communicate those messages.

 

[Andy Black]

The way I see this most times is when someone sells something like a web development service and then underperforms because the price isn't enough. You probably didn't mean it this way, but this doesn't work well in business. People reward when you do things well for them, generally, just wanted to make that point.

He just communicated an important need to you.

He does not have the time mess with this or the interest to do so. I'm not sure how exactly this will show up in the business that he is doing, but the best you can do for him is communicate this need being met for him without him having to do anything. Simple is king here. He will not be looking for a 10 page paper on why your company is best, but he wants to know that you will take care of everything and he won't have to spend doing things he doesn't care about (web development, probably that whole process).

Showing up with technical terms such as SEO, SEM, and other things are likely to only hinder any kind of connection this man has with what he needs and what you will provide. Such things as "You will be seen more by the people who want your products, without you having to do hardly any extra work." Will be much more effective if you can communicate those messages.

Yep.

There are people who want a "done for you" service.

These people will pay more than the ones who want to be shown how to do it, or those who want help doing it.

Here's a sliding scale:

1) Show me.
2) Help me.
3) Do it for me.​

Personally I like the hidden levels of:

4) I'm doing it anyway.​

and especially:

5) I've already done it.​

...


He's told you he's swamped, and he's told you his priority.

Have you quoted for that piece of work separately already?


...


What would I do?

Me personally, I would reply with something like:

"Thanks for the update <firstname>.

It sounds like you're swamped!

Design and show casing your existing work are your priorities?

Attached is a short report showing what some of your competitors are doing, and some thoughts on what you could do.

Hope it helps.

Andy"





I'd then attach a short presentation with screenshots (and the links) of websites you've already done, competitor websites (always nice to show better ones), and maybe some mock ups you've done (not needed if you annotate the other screenshots).

Point out what you see on each of those pages, and why you think it's good or bad.

Don't spend too long on it. You're showing what you can do in a quick look at what he's now told you are his priorities.

Show him stuff he might not have thought of. Make him think "what else have I not thought of?"

Attach it as a PowerPoint so he can share/print it if he wants/needs to show it to other decision makers.

Your job is to make him look good to the other stakeholders, and to take the risk out of hiring you.

"Show don't tell."

The purpose of your email is to get him to open the PowerPoint. ("Sell the click.")

Check the last few comments in my Lead Gen for Local Services thread for an example (HERE).



After sending that, I'd move on personally.

He either wants my help now, or he doesn't.

He either sees the value in what I'm offering, or he doesn't.

I'm unattached to the outcome.

There's plenty of businesses out there that will bite my hand off.

Keep moving.


Just how I'd approach it. Take from it what you will.



...



Here's a few mantras often echoing around my head:

"Sell the click."

"Show don't tell."

"You don't need permission."

"Just do it."

"The first purchase is a test."

"Find the people who see the value in what you do, and not the cost."

"Help the people in motion."

"I'm doing it anyway."

"Opportunity doesn't knock once. She knocks so often it's a drumroll on your door."

"Good things happen when you move at pace."

"Keep moving."


Hope they help.

 

[DVU]

The way I see this most times is when someone sells something like a web development service and then underperforms because the price isn't enough. You probably didn't mean it this way, but this doesn't work well in business. People reward when you do things well for them, generally, just wanted to make that point.

He just communicated an important need to you.

He does not have the time mess with this or the interest to do so. I'm not sure how exactly this will show up in the business that he is doing, but the best you can do for him is communicate this need being met for him without him having to do anything. Simple is king here. He will not be looking for a 10 page paper on why your company is best, but he wants to know that you will take care of everything and he won't have to spend doing things he doesn't care about (web development, probably that whole process).

Showing up with technical terms such as SEO, SEM, and other things are likely to only hinder any kind of connection this man has with what he needs and what you will provide. Such things as "You will be seen more by the people who want your products, without you having to do hardly any extra work." Will be much more effective if you can communicate those messages.

Yep.

There are people who want a "done for you" service.

These people will pay more than the ones who want to be shown how to do it, or those who want help doing it.

Here's a sliding scale:

1) Show me.
2) Help me.
3) Do it for me.​

Personally I like the hidden levels of:

4) I'm doing it anyway.​

and especially:

5) I've already done it.​

...


He's told you he's swamped, and he's told you his priority.

Have you quoted for that piece of work separately already?


...


What would I do?

Me personally, I would reply with something like:

"Thanks for the update <firstname>.

It sounds like you're swamped!

Design and show casing your existing work are your priorities?

Attached is a short report showing what some of your competitors are doing, and some thoughts on what you could do.

Hope it helps.

Andy"





I'd then attach a short presentation with screenshots (and the links) of websites you've already done, competitor websites (always nice to show better ones), and maybe some mock ups you've done (not needed if you annotate the other screenshots).

Point out what you see on each of those pages, and why you think it's good or bad.

Don't spend too long on it. You're showing what you can do in a quick look at what he's now told you are his priorities.

Show him stuff he might not have thought of. Make him think "what else have I not thought of?"

Attach it as a PowerPoint so he can share/print it if he wants/needs to show it to other decision makers.

Your job is to make him look good to the other stakeholders, and to take the risk out of hiring you.

"Show don't tell."

The purpose of your email is to get him to open the PowerPoint. ("Sell the click.")

Check the last few comments in my Lead Gen for Local Services thread for an example (HERE).



After sending that, I'd move on personally.

He either wants my help now, or he doesn't.

He either sees the value in what I'm offering, or he doesn't.

I'm unattached to the outcome.

There's plenty of businesses out there that will bite my hand off.

Keep moving.


Just how I'd approach it. Take from it what you will.



...



Here's a few mantras often echoing around my head:

"Sell the click."

"Show don't tell."

"You don't need permission."

"Just do it."

"The first purchase is a test."

"Find the people who see the value in what you do, and not the cost."

"Help the people in motion."

"I'm doing it anyway."

"Opportunity doesn't knock once. She knocks so often it's a drumroll on your door."

"Good things happen when you move at pace."

"Keep moving."


Hope they help.

I didn't see it altho it was staring in my face.

He obviously told me that he has no time to deal with any of this and just wants a fancy design.

What I will do is just make him the website(without the search). It will take me 2 or 3 days and send it to him. I already quoted it at 5k for just that.

I will make sure it delivers and is something I think he would go for.

And then its up to him to just take it and solves his problem of finding a web designer, making sure he is good, talking about all the stuff, basically take the "boring" part out, so that he doesn't have to do it. If he thinks its good its already a done deal, he just has to say yes.

Thanks @Utopia, @Andy Black for pointing that out in his email.

 

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[Utopia]

I didn't see it altho it was staring in my face.

He obviously told me that he has no time to deal with any of this and just wants a fancy design.

What I will do is just make him the website(without the search). It will take me 2 or 3 days and send it to him. I already quoted it at 5k for just that.

I will make sure it delivers and is something I think he would go for.

And then its up to him to just take it and solves his problem of finding a web designer, making sure he is good, talking about all the stuff, basically take the "boring" part out, so that he doesn't have to do it. If he thinks its good its already a done deal, he just has to say yes.

Thanks @Utopia, @Andy Black for pointing that out in his email.

This is great. If you can set this up and solve his problem now, that is what he really wants.

 

[DVU]

I am 80% done with the website and will be sending it tomorrow(It's 4 am so It's today pretty much)

This is the email that I am planning to send, bash it to the ground lol:

""

Hey Dan,

As you mentioned you don't have a lot of time to deal with web design guys and your schedule is swamped, we wanted to help you and solve your problem by offering you a finished website, everything you have on your old one is here and all in a very beautiful design.


""

 

[Jon L]

I am 80% done with the website and will be sending it tomorrow(It's 4 am so It's today pretty much)

This is the email that I am planning to send, bash it to the ground lol:

""

Hey Dan,

As you mentioned you don't have a lot of time to deal with web design guys and your schedule is swamped, we wanted to help you and solve your problem by offering you a finished website, everything you have on your old one is here and all in a very beautiful design.


""

are you going to give him the completed design without expecting payment? That's what this email suggests... I would just give him the first couple pages and tell him that you can have the rest completed within x days - all with very little involvement from him for $5000

 

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[Utopia]

I am 80% done with the website and will be sending it tomorrow(It's 4 am so It's today pretty much)

This is the email that I am planning to send, bash it to the ground lol:

""

Hey Dan,

As you mentioned you don't have a lot of time to deal with web design guys and your schedule is swamped, we wanted to help you and solve your problem by offering you a finished website, everything you have on your old one is here and all in a very beautiful design.


""

It's not about you. It's about him. This is better:

"As you mentioned you don't have a lot of time to deal with web design guys and your schedule is swamped, so I took care of everything for you. This should give benefit 1, benefit 2, and benefit 3. Here it is. Let me know what you think."

These benefits should be exactly what we identified early (he doesn't have to do it, he has peace of mind, he can show off his work without thinking about it, etc.) I don't think having a beautiful design was that much of importance before. Realize every opportunity to cut what he doesn't want or care about here and fill it in with what he does care about.

 

[DVU]

are you going to give him the completed design without expecting payment? That's what this email suggests... I would just give him the first couple pages and tell him that you can have the rest completed within x days - all with very little involvement from him for $5000

Of course not. I'm not going to just give it to him, It will be an offer, if he wants it, he will have to pay, if not, it goes to trash.

It's not about you. It's about him. This is better:

"As you mentioned you don't have a lot of time to deal with web design guys and your schedule is swamped, so I took care of everything for you. This should give benefit 1, benefit 2, and benefit 3. Here it is. Let me know what you think."

These benefits should be exactly what we identified early (he doesn't have to do it, he has peace of mind, he can show off his work without thinking about it, etc.) I don't think having a beautiful design was that much of importance before. Realize every opportunity to cut what he doesn't want or care about here and fill it in with what he does care about.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[jpanarra]

Wow, as a newbie to negotiations, this thread is golden! I haven't negotiated a large site like this one yet, but you guys are giving great strategies and tips on how to close the sale. I will be bookmarking this thread for sure! Hope to hear more!

 

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[DVU]

UPDATE: I got a response

"
"
Hi Domagoj –


Thanks for the link/offer. For the new site, we would like to make quite a few design and layout changes. Some of the sections, like services/pricing, needs to be re-architected. Also, for the portfolio section, we are going to change this to a project showcase section. The new site needs to be all about the visual presentation and using our images/films to showcase our work.
"
"

From what I understand, he is now "hooked" and now knows I can do the job, but has a different design in mind so we will change that to his liking and done deal.

This is my response:

"
"
Sure,

Did you have anything particular in mind, like an example or a mockup that I can recreate?

If you can provide that I can have it updated and altered within 2 to 3 days.
"
"

Any advice/critic welcome.

 

[Waspy]

I fear he is stringing you along. If you go ahead with that work you are 6 days in. He can full on low-ball the shit out of you and what you going to do about it?

I imagine he knows once its built, you are going to take $100 rather than nothing for it, when really it is worth $x,xxx

 

[DVU]

I fear he is stringing you along. If you go ahead with that work you are 6 days in. He can full on low-ball the shit out of you and what you going to do about it?

I imagine he knows once its built, you are going to take $100 rather than nothing for it, when really it is worth $x,xxx

Not really, no, I specifically said in one of the previous emails that it is 5k for just a static website.

I will stand my ground on that if he wants to drop the price I walk, simple as that.

And If he does end up not taking it, it took me 4 days to make it, and to miss a 5k deal for 30 hours of work, kinda worth it. Because there will be more deals in the future and I am not going to miss.

 

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[Waspy]

Not really, no, I specifically said in one of the previous emails that it is 5k for just a static website.

I will stand my ground on that if he wants to drop the price I walk, simple as that.

And If he does end up not taking it, it took me 4 days to make it, and to miss a 5k deal for 30 hours of work, kinda worth it. Because there will be more deals in the future and I am not going to miss.

That's fine then, as long as you are happy with the possibility of walking away with nothing from 30 hours of work, all experience at the end of the day.

However, it's not really sustainable in my opinion. You wouldn't be able to do it for every potential client. If I wanted someone to build me a house, I wouldn't expect them to build it before I have agreed to buy it.

 

[DVU]

That's fine then, as long as you are happy with the possibility of walking away with nothing from 30 hours of work, all experience at the end of the day.

However, it's not really sustainable in my opinion. You wouldn't be able to do it for every potential client. If I wanted someone to build me a house, I wouldn't expect them to build it before I have agreed to buy it.

Of course not, i sent this guy an email not expecting any response and it turned into a potential 5k deal.

I plan to get my future clients trough cold calling.

 

[Niptuck MD]

This is just a business negotiation. I love this shit.

Your price wasn't too high for them or they would have just balked and left.

A counter-offer would have been better, but the next best thing is them showing you another offer that they have on the table. They are in the market and must have some interest or they wouldn't have talked to you more.

I am with Fox on the pricing of the job and if you truly believe it to be higher, then I would advise you to stick true to yourself before all others, but if you want to continue negotiations you can definitely do so.

You have to set a minimum price you would accept and a goal price. This could be Goal=$15k Minimum=$13k
-Be specific because your mind goes fuzzy in negotiations.

Then talk to them about it and offer high. I would come back with something such as $22k. They will possibly counter somewhere at $10k or $12k, maybe they didn't even have an offer before and that was just their form of a counter offer? Doesn't matter.

I would counter again for something like $18k or $19k. Act like you are willing to walk away and they might just agree then, or they counter offer at $15k or $16k.

Again I state that knowing your worth is first, but if you do negotiate this, understand you have power and could win here depending on your outcome.

amazing advice sir.

 

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[FastNAwesome]

And If he does end up not taking it, it took me 4 days to make it, and to miss a 5k deal for 30 hours of work, kinda worth it. Because there will be more deals in the future and I am not going to miss.

Agreed. You can only win.

And actually this is exactly why this works so well. Few people are willing to take that "big risk" of working 4 days for potentially nothing. Which makes you stand out.

In addition, it's much easier for a client to like a website that he can see, and to want to pay for it.

 

[Utopia]

UPDATE: I got a response

"
"
Hi Domagoj –


Thanks for the link/offer. For the new site, we would like to make quite a few design and layout changes. Some of the sections, like services/pricing, needs to be re-architected. Also, for the portfolio section, we are going to change this to a project showcase section. The new site needs to be all about the visual presentation and using our images/films to showcase our work.
"
"

From what I understand, he is now "hooked" and now knows I can do the job, but has a different design in mind so we will change that to his liking and done deal.

This is my response:

"
"
Sure,

Did you have anything particular in mind, like an example or a mockup that I can recreate?

If you can provide that I can have it updated and altered within 2 to 3 days.
"
"

Any advice/critic welcome.

Not only is he hooked, but he also demonstrated that he does have time to go over this. Notice how his response was so detailed and he told you of the things he wanted as if he checked the whole site, he does matter to him and it is important enough to him to go through. As you said with the pricing, it will work itself out.

But I hate your response to him. "Do you have anything particular in mind?" Seriously who uses "particular" when they are talking with their friends in business. In addition, he doesn't want to go find you a mockup and the chances of him knowing of anything particular in what you can use or model for this project are very rare. Since he doesn't care about the technical details here, he just wants what he wants, you are off giving this response. Lastly, I sincerly doubt he is concerned about the time it takes to get this done, it's not something you should mention. He has put this off for weeks and you have given him this gift of having a realization that it could be done sooner than he imagined. No reason to bring up, "it could be done within 2 to 3 days."

A more appropriate response would have been:

"Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to take a look at this. From what you said we can make those few design and layout changes. We can also re-architect x.....etc. To know exactly what you want lets just set up a brief time to go over this, probably just 30 minutes where we can decide all the changes so that you don't even have to think about this anymore."

 

[Niptuck MD]

Not only is he hooked, but he also demonstrated that he does have time to go over this. Notice how his response was so detailed and he told you of the things he wanted as if he checked the whole site, he does matter to him and it is important enough to him to go through. As you said with the pricing, it will work itself out.

But I hate your response to him. "Do you have anything particular in mind?" Seriously who uses "particular" when they are talking with their friends in business. In addition, he doesn't want to go find you a mockup and the chances of him knowing of anything particular in what you can use or model for this project are very rare. Since he doesn't care about the technical details here, he just wants what he wants, you are off giving this response. Lastly, I sincerly doubt he is concerned about the time it takes to get this done, it's not something you should mention. He has put this off for weeks and you have given him this gift of having a realization that it could be done sooner than he imagined. No reason to bring up, "it could be done within 2 to 3 days."

A more appropriate response would have been:

"Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to take a look at this. From what you said we can make those few design and layout changes. We can also re-architect x.....etc. To know exactly what you want lets just set up a brief time to go over this, probably just 30 minutes where we can decide all the changes so that you don't even have to think about this anymore."

like @Utopia stated, see if you can get a meeting via phone or even better skype/etc to really lock yourself in. he is needing something valuable for the business; you offer that. the ball is in your court. you need to get what is rightfully yours. you have a quality service he needs a quality product; quality costs $.

just make sure you follow through with exemplary service based on the PROPER quotation you give.

 

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[DVU]

Not only is he hooked, but he also demonstrated that he does have time to go over this. Notice how his response was so detailed and he told you of the things he wanted as if he checked the whole site, he does matter to him and it is important enough to him to go through. As you said with the pricing, it will work itself out.

But I hate your response to him. "Do you have anything particular in mind?" Seriously who uses "particular" when they are talking with their friends in business. In addition, he doesn't want to go find you a mockup and the chances of him knowing of anything particular in what you can use or model for this project are very rare. Since he doesn't care about the technical details here, he just wants what he wants, you are off giving this response. Lastly, I sincerly doubt he is concerned about the time it takes to get this done, it's not something you should mention. He has put this off for weeks and you have given him this gift of having a realization that it could be done sooner than he imagined. No reason to bring up, "it could be done within 2 to 3 days."

A more appropriate response would have been:

"Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to take a look at this. From what you said we can make those few design and layout changes. We can also re-architect x.....etc. To know exactly what you want lets just set up a brief time to go over this, probably just 30 minutes where we can decide all the changes so that you don't even have to think about this anymore."

Not my native so yeah, I probably have to give my formal speech some work.

Appreciate all the advice. But just one thing that caught my eye

"Thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to take a look at this.

Isn't this a bit TOO much, I would have opted for just "Thanks for checking it out, [we can do this that]" To me it's giving almost a desperate feel. Any opinion on this?

 

[MidwestLandlord]

Isn't this a bit TOO much, I would have opted for just "Thanks for checking it out, [we can do this that]" To me it's giving almost a desperate feel. Any opinion on this?

I like @Utopia 's wording better. His wording not only thanks your client, but acknowledges the fact that your client is over-overwhelmingly busy.

None of @Utopia 's wording has a question mark in it either, which gives him an air of authority, assumes the sale, and communicates that both needs will be met: 1) your client's need to free up time 2) your client's need to have a website built with someone he can trust to do it right

Plus @Utopia 's subtle push to get in front of him with a 30 minute meeting is more likely to result in your client committing to the project. Just like texting a girl for a date, always push for a physical meet, or she'll just text forever.

"Thanks for checking it out..." sounds lackadaisical.

 

[DVU]

I like @Utopia 's wording better. His wording not only thanks your client, but acknowledges the fact that your client is over-overwhelmingly busy.

None of @Utopia 's wording has a question mark in it either, which gives him an air of authority, assumes the sale, and communicates that both needs will be met: 1) your client's need to free up time 2) your client's need to have a website built with someone he can trust to do it right

Plus @Utopia 's subtle push to get in front of him with a 30 minute meeting is more likely to result in your client committing to the project. Just like texting a girl for a date, always push for a physical meet, or she'll just text forever.

"Thanks for checking it out..." sounds lackadaisical.

Makes sense when you put it like that.

I will definitely try to set up a meeting in the next email.

 

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[Utopia]

How did this go?

 

[DVU]

How did this go?

He said that he will talk to his partner about what exactly they want, and then I suggested a meeting the day after that.

It was 2 days before Christmass so he replied the next week that they are still not exactly sure what they want to do with it and that he will get back to me as soon as they do.

 

[Utopia]

He said that he will talk to his partner about what exactly they want, and then I suggested a meeting the day after that.

It was 2 days before Christmass so he replied the next week that they are still not exactly sure what they want to do with it and that he will get back to me as soon as they do.

And you have three other people just like this to sell next?

 

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[DVU]

And you have three other people just like this to sell next?

Not sure I follow. Could you elaborate?