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O/T: HEALTH Male mental health question: TW for attempted suicide

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johansunburg

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My(21F) boyfriend (21M) was admitted into a psychiatric hospital this morning.

Two weeks ago, he tried to commit suicide and I had to hold him down to stop him from hurting himself. He ended up hurting me during the struggle, and he still feels ashamed and guilty.

This all started when his doctor told him to get off of his antidepressants, and he just spiraled down into rock bottom.

Ever since his attempted suicide, it feels like he's just had one crisis after another. I've had to take off of work to be on suicide watch, even though we need the money. He's kept me up till 2 AM on work nights. On my second day back at work, he called me and told me that he hurt himself. I rushed home to find him buried in blankets, crying bc he had smashed his fists against his thighs until there were bruises.

In the middle of all of this, our anniversary came and passed. Neither of us celebrated or even acknowledged it because of his depression and suicide attempt.

I love him so much. My heart hurts for him and I hate that I'm powerless to help him. I'm mentally exhausted and just burnt out from everything. Getting him admitted into a facility seemed like our only option while he's off medication. I've been encouraging him every day with words of affirmation and so many hugs. I took on the housework and cooking, and I'm the only one working while he goes through all of this. Even when he's mean to me or loses his temper, I don't take it personally because I've been there before and it is a terrifying thing to not be able to control overwhelming emotions and racing thoughts.

My question is, have any of you gone through this before? If so, what would you have liked for people to do to help you? <sneaky link removed by mod> Was there anything in particular that made you feel better? What kinds of things did you want to be told? I want to be there and support my boyfriend as best I can, but I have no idea what to say or do to make him feel more comfortable and safe when he's checked out from the facility.

Extra info:

We live together. We've been together for 2 years. He wasn't like this before he was taken off of medication. He also has an anxiety disorder.
 
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Mattie

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My(21F) boyfriend (21M) was admitted into a psychiatric hospital this morning.

Two weeks ago, he tried to commit suicide and I had to hold him down to stop him from hurting himself. He ended up hurting me during the struggle, and he still feels ashamed and guilty.

This all started when his doctor told him to get off of his antidepressants, and he just spiraled down into rock bottom.

Ever since his attempted suicide, it feels like he's just had one crisis after another. I've had to take off of work to be on suicide watch, even though we need the money. He's kept me up till 2 AM on work nights. On my second day back at work, he called me and told me that he hurt himself. I rushed home to find him buried in blankets, crying bc he had smashed his fists against his thighs until there were bruises.

In the middle of all of this, our anniversary came and passed. Neither of us celebrated or even acknowledged it because of his depression and suicide attempt.

I love him so much. My heart hurts for him and I hate that I'm powerless to help him. I'm mentally exhausted and just burnt out from everything. Getting him admitted into a facility seemed like our only option while he's off medication. I've been encouraging him every day with words of affirmation and so many hugs. I took on the housework and cooking, and I'm the only one working while he goes through all of this. Even when he's mean to me or loses his temper, I don't take it personally because I've been there before and it is a terrifying thing to not be able to control overwhelming emotions and racing thoughts.

My question is, have any of you gone through this before? If so, what would you have liked for people to do to help you? <sneaky link removed by mod> Was there anything in particular that made you feel better? What kinds of things did you want to be told? I want to be there and support my boyfriend as best I can, but I have no idea what to say or do to make him feel more comfortable and safe when he's checked out from the facility.

Extra info:

We live together. We've been together for 2 years. He wasn't like this before he was taken off of medication. He also has an anxiety disorder.
Working with Mental Health Crisis in the past, there's really nothing you can do personally other then support him as he goes through counseling or support groups. Depends on his diagnosis. Depends on what kind of treatment plan he's on by his psychiatrist or psychologist.

I'm not sure why his physician would tell him to go off his medications knowing this is probability of the event in question. I'd question why the medications were stopped in the first place. Most physicians don't just drop medications cold turkey without them being replaced or weened off of over time.

This is really about him choosing to help himself. Hard to say. Medications can also influence suicide if they're the wrong medications.

You can be mixing drugs, alcohol, and medications and get the same effect.

You can go to the counseling appointments with him to learn what you can do support him. You might find a support group for yourself online or offline that is Suicide Survivor's Support Groups. I haven't been in that for awhile.

Cognitive Behavior Therapy is what many work on.

The Mental Health Apps are good for some individuals you can find online. They do different things for different people.

It takes a good year before he will be stable. It takes a lot of patience, understanding, compassion, and you really have to know what aggravates the situation.

What he's feeling trapped about in life. "I can't get out of these situations with these people?"

Restrictions of some sort he's feeling within certain environments with certain people.

Can be work, education, family, friends, your relationship, or all the above together.

Suicide is the best way to escape life. Life is to hard. He doesn't know how to problem solve, problem shoot, and might not have the best coping skills, tools, or methods.

"Life gets better as long as you breathe." Dr. Fuller.

Learning how to breathe. "Box Breathing".

Anxiety, Fear, Perfectionism.

"I can't get it right."

"I can't measure up."

You have to remember we're in a Pandemic, Natural Disasters, and this can really push people over the edge right now, because they might not see a way out. The Anxiety, the Fear, can be quite huge for some people depending on the situation there in.

Alcohol and Drugs can magnify the Depression and make matters 100% worse then they actually are in the present.

Walking, Running, Working Out, and Recreational Activities can help with Anxiety and stress.

You have to get down to the roots of what he's thinking internally about. He's really the only one who knows.

Is there anything behind the scenes that your unaware of that he feels guilt, shame, and blaming himself about?
 
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Mattie

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Working with Mental Health Crisis in the past, there's really nothing you can do personally other then support him as he goes through counseling or support groups. Depends on his diagnosis. Depends on what kind of treatment plan he's on by his psychiatrist or psychologist.

I'm not sure why his physician would tell him to go off his medications knowing this is probability of the event in question. I'd question why the medications were stopped in the first place. Most physicians don't just drop medications cold turkey without them being replaced or weened off of over time.

This is really about him choosing to help himself. Hard to say. Medications can also influence suicide if they're the wrong medications.

You can be mixing drugs, alcohol, and medications and get the same effect.

You can go to the counseling appointments with him to learn what you can do support him. You might find a support group for yourself online or offline that is Suicide Survivor's Support Groups. I haven't been in that for awhile.

Cognitive Behavior Therapy is what many work on.

The Mental Health Apps are good for some individuals you can find online. They do different things for different people.

It takes a good year before he will be stable. It takes a lot of patience, understanding, compassion, and you really have to know what aggravates the situation.

What he's feeling trapped about in life. "I can't get out of these situations with these people?"

Restrictions of some sort he's feeling within certain environments with certain people.

Can be work, education, family, friends, your relationship, or all the above together.

Suicide is the best way to escape life. Life is to hard. He doesn't know how to problem solve, problem shoot, and might not have the best coping skills, tools, or methods.

"Life gets better as long as you breathe." Dr. Fuller.

Learning how to breathe. "Box Breathing".

Anxiety, Fear, Perfectionism.

"I can't get it right."

"I can't measure up."

You have to remember we're in a Pandemic, Natural Disasters, and this can really push people over the edge right now, because they might not see a way out. The Anxiety, the Fear, can be quite huge for some people depending on the situation there in.

Alcohol and Drugs can magnify the Depression and make matters 100% worse then they actually are in the present.

Walking, Running, Working Out, and Recreational Activities can help with Anxiety and stress.

You have to get down to the roots of what he's thinking internally about. He's really the only one who knows.

Is there anything behind the scenes that your unaware of that he feels guilt, shame, and blaming himself about?
Here's a list for you online.
 

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Ask about Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), and if the doctors haven't heard of it or they mistakenly think it's a non-medical treatment (because of the word "magnetic"), find a doctor or treatment center that knows what it is. It's a proven medical treatment, permanently effective, and superior to antidepressants for some people. It uses MRI like equipment to change the action potentials of neurons in the parts of the brain responsible for depression (and/or other things). It's covered by insurance, at least the ones I know about.

I talked to two friends just yesterday who were helped by this therapy. One described it as "life changing" and it freed him from medication and depression both. The other was treated for anxiety, and it had benefit for her too.

You might also look into agmatine sulfate. It's just a supplement that you can buy from companies like liftmode. It may help with dependence and withdrawal if those are issues. Also perhaps depression. Just ask his doctor if it would interact negatively with anything he's taking now.
 

Itizn

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Had a close friend who I had to terminate a friendship with for similar reasons.

It started out with drug abuse, then deteriorated into suicide attempts, and finally he became psychologically abusive.

Easier for me to cut him off since we were just (really good) friends, but in your case you live together and are romantically involved, so I'm aware it's a tougher decision.

Your question seemed to be posed more towards those who were in his position, but that being said, at some point I believe the best remedy for those affected by such behavior is to completely cut them off.
 

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Stopped reading like 10% through. Leave anyone who is f*cked up enough to hurt themselves.

I'm not "Captain save-a-hoe". Thats my motto. I don't date headaches. I don't hire headaches. I don't befriend headaches. My life is awesome. All the headache people are in some other place giving other people headaches. Not me. I have a cheerful girlfriend. Cheerful customers. Cheerful employees. Cheerful friends. I love myself and don't want my life to suck.

Give that dude a Chinese name: Long Gon

You probably won't listen, and you'll continue to have a shit ton of problems. Oh well. Pat yourself on the back for being supportive I guess.
 

Antifragile

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Stopped reading like 10% through. Leave anyone who is f*cked up enough to hurt themselves.

I'm not "Captain save-a-hoe". Thats my motto. I don't date headaches. I don't hire headaches. I don't befriend headaches. My life is awesome. All the headache people are in some other place giving other people headaches. Not me. I have a cheerful girlfriend. Cheerful customers. Cheerful employees. Cheerful friends. I love myself and don't want my life to suck.

Give that dude a Chinese name: Long Gon

You probably won't listen, and you'll continue to have a shit ton of problems. Oh well. Pat yourself on the back for being supportive I guess.

In my limited life experience, people who boast how happy they are usually aren’t. Those who boast how rich they are, often aren’t. And people who take a strong stance on any particular issue (extreme views) are often biased because of their past experiences.

The world isn’t all sunshine and roses and it’ll beat you down.

C0VlD created a lot of mental health problems for the young. It’s a fact.

You said you read only 10% of the post but still chose to write a lengthy reply! Why?

Whatever demons you are fighting John, it’s ok to ask for support and help. Escaping head in the sand isn’t a solution. Leaving someone you love because they developed an illness isn’t cool, helping them isn’t being “captain save a Ho”.

Whatever led you to make that post - reflect on it.
 

Andy Black

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My(21F) boyfriend (21M) was admitted into a psychiatric hospital this morning.

Two weeks ago, he tried to commit suicide and I had to hold him down to stop him from hurting himself. He ended up hurting me during the struggle, and he still feels ashamed and guilty.

This all started when his doctor told him to get off of his antidepressants, and he just spiraled down into rock bottom.

Ever since his attempted suicide, it feels like he's just had one crisis after another. I've had to take off of work to be on suicide watch, even though we need the money. He's kept me up till 2 AM on work nights. On my second day back at work, he called me and told me that he hurt himself. I rushed home to find him buried in blankets, crying bc he had smashed his fists against his thighs until there were bruises.

In the middle of all of this, our anniversary came and passed. Neither of us celebrated or even acknowledged it because of his depression and suicide attempt.

I love him so much. My heart hurts for him and I hate that I'm powerless to help him. I'm mentally exhausted and just burnt out from everything. Getting him admitted into a facility seemed like our only option while he's off medication. I've been encouraging him every day with words of affirmation and so many hugs. I took on the housework and cooking, and I'm the only one working while he goes through all of this. Even when he's mean to me or loses his temper, I don't take it personally because I've been there before and it is a terrifying thing to not be able to control overwhelming emotions and racing thoughts.

My question is, have any of you gone through this before? If so, what would you have liked for people to do to help you? <sneaky link removed by mod> Was there anything in particular that made you feel better? What kinds of things did you want to be told? I want to be there and support my boyfriend as best I can, but I have no idea what to say or do to make him feel more comfortable and safe when he's checked out from the facility.

Extra info:

We live together. We've been together for 2 years. He wasn't like this before he was taken off of medication. He also has an anxiety disorder.
So sorry to read this, for him, for you, and all the people affected.

Like Mattie said, I’d question why/if he’s gone cold turkey.

Definitely seek professional help. This isn’t something you can fix on your own.

And as others have said, you need to take care of yourself. You’re no good to him or yourself if you get ill - physically or mentally.

At some time in our lives we’ll all be called upon to help loved ones. Just make sure you put your own oxygen mask on first.
 
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Mattie

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Stopped reading like 10% through. Leave anyone who is f*cked up enough to hurt themselves.

I'm not "Captain save-a-hoe". Thats my motto. I don't date headaches. I don't hire headaches. I don't befriend headaches. My life is awesome. All the headache people are in some other place giving other people headaches. Not me. I have a cheerful girlfriend. Cheerful customers. Cheerful employees. Cheerful friends. I love myself and don't want my life to suck.

Give that dude a Chinese name: Long Gon

You probably won't listen, and you'll continue to have a shit ton of problems. Oh well. Pat yourself on the back for being supportive I guess.
Not to be rude Mighty King, but you can find yourself there at some point in time for whatever reason. Lots of Famous People, Entrepreneurs, and Celebrities have walked in these shoes.
 

Kevin88660

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My(21F) boyfriend (21M) was admitted into a psychiatric hospital this morning.

Two weeks ago, he tried to commit suicide and I had to hold him down to stop him from hurting himself. He ended up hurting me during the struggle, and he still feels ashamed and guilty.

This all started when his doctor told him to get off of his antidepressants, and he just spiralled down into rock bottom.

Ever since his attempted suicide, it feels like he's just had one crisis after another. I've had to take off of work to be on suicide watch, even though we need the money. He's kept me up til 2 AM on work nights. On my second day back at work, he called me and told me that he hurt himself. I rushed home to find him buried in blankets, crying bc he had smashed his fists against his thighs until there were bruises.

In the middle of all of this, our anniversary came and passed. Neither of us celebrated or even acknowledged it because of his depression and suicide attempt.

I love him so much. My heart hurts for him and I hate that I'm powerless to help him. I'm mentally exhausted and just burnt-out from everything. Getting him admitted into a facility seemed like our only option while he's off medication. I've been encouraging him every day with words of affirmation and so many hugs. I took on the housework and cooking, and I'm the only one working while he goes through all of this. Even when he's mean to me or loses his temper, I don't take it personally because I've been there before and it is a terrifying thing to not be able to control overhwelming emotions and racing thoughts.

My question is, have any of you gone through this before? If so, what would you have liked for people to do to help you? Was there anything in particular that made you feel better? What kinds of things did you want to be told? I want to be there and support my boyfriend as best I can, but I have no idea what to say or do to make him feel more comfortable and safe when he's checked out from the facility.

Extra info:

We live together. We've been together for 2 years. He wasn't like this before he was taken off of medication. He also has an anxiety disorder.
Im not a medical professional or psychologist.

When people are depressed and feeling hopeless they need classical motivational hopium, the very cliche cult like repetition of “I can do it.”.

Hopium and unrealistic optimism are necessary ingredients to kick start something, especially out of a depressing situation.

Why would you commit suicide if you believe you are going to be a millionaire internet celebrity soon?
 

RicardoGrande

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2 cents:
If you have to stick around, either read the upward spiral by alex korb, or get him to read it and implement it.
I use to have some pretty bad mood crashes about every 2 weeks or so, turns out if you have poor life habits, you can drive yourself down.

By doing simple things like:
- Having proper amounts of sleep at the right time
- Cutting out unnecessary news or devices
- Daily exercise
- On point diet
- Socialization

You can do 80% of the work to climb out of depression and increase the chances for stable, long-term happiness.

Why not try taking him out on some walks first?

Caveat: I hate the modern medical industry and feel that it is full of stuffed suits that have financial incentive to push people onto pills instead of forcing them to get to good health. I also firmly believe that one should do everything in their own personal power to create change before resorting to $$$$ therapies and the pharma spiral.
 

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I'm mentally exhausted and just burnt-out from everything.
Please remember that you are not a therapist. You've done what you can but it's not your responsibility to get him back to 100%. Never feel like it's your fault.

Have you considered having him see a therapist? You can go with him if he wants you to or if he prefers to go alone. Therapists have a lot of stigma surrounding them, but they're there to help. They are not bad nor will they treat your boyfriend as if he has some weird problems. Sometimes all people need is someone to listen to them.

How is his living situation?
How is his physical health?
Does he have friends?
Does he have goals?
Things he wants to do or accomplish?
Hobbies?
Work?

Is he worried about anything specifically?

There's a lot of things that can impact him.

I personally find going to the gym helps improve my mood and makes me feel better.

I've recently been reading up about mushrooms, maybe something like Reishi or Lions Mane may help? I don't know much about them (mushrooms), but they do seem to have benefits. And I'm not talking about mushrooms that make you trip out. There are mushrooms out there that improve your mood and the clarity of your thoughts. (I'm not an expert on this subject. I have no experience in it. I've just recently started reading about it.)

And about the antidepressants... Is there any specific reason why the doctor told him to stop? You even said it yourself, everything got worse once he got off of it. People tend to feel guilty for relying on supplements, but they shouldn't if it genuinely helps them. Unless he is having some other health problems caused by the antidepressants.

All in all, I'm no therapist or doctor. And please don't take me too seriously. But I just left some food for thought. I hope all goes well. And again, it's not your fault or responsibility if he continues like this. But be careful. You don't want to end up in a situation where you're afraid of leaving the relationship because him self-harming. That's just toxic.
 

Johnny boy

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Not to be rude Mighty King, but you can find yourself there at some point in time for whatever reason. Lots of Famous People, Entrepreneurs, and Celebrities have walked in these shoes.
no one finds themselves there. They make decisions that PUT them there. Even in the language describing these situations there is a lack of accountability.
 

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Please explain how a person with a Brain Injury/Brain Disorder, Developmentally Disabled, or Severe Mentally Impaired person can always make a competent decision or always can be held accountable for their actions?

What if one has a brain tumor of Cancer? What if they've been in a Coma for 12 years?

I'll be the first to tell you there's not a "One Size Fits All" when it comes to Suicide.
 
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@Mattie

I wouldn’t argue with people like Jonny boy. He’s acting like a boy. His ignorance coupled with confidence made it so that he’s here not here to learn, but to preach. And remember he’s a 20 something year old landscaping company owner, who came into a molecule of success financially, it has given him wings… sad really.
 

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@Mattie

I wouldn’t argue with people like Jonny boy. He’s acting like a boy. His ignorance coupled with confidence made it so that he’s here not here to learn, but to preach. And remember he’s a 20 something year old landscaping company owner, who came into a molecule of success financially, it has given him wings… sad really.
I've seen how the ego can be broken down! Landscaping and Medical/Mental Health are completely different professions. Maybe he should stick with the Environment.
 

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no one finds themselves there. They make decisions that PUT them there. Even in the language describing these situations there is a lack of accountability.
No one finds themselves with cancer. People just put themselves in cancer, it's all their fault. I don't make friends with people with cancers, what a bunch of loosers, hahaha, lol. My life is awesome, I don't deal with sick losers. I'm twenty something and will never die.

You're still a baby it seems, I don't wish that on you and wish you all the best, but life might teach you a lesson or two in the future, with all due of respect. Now you seem to feel invincible. Maybe too invincible. It's hard to read honestly.
 
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@Mattie

I wouldn’t argue with people like Jonny boy. He’s acting like a boy. His ignorance coupled with confidence made it so that he’s here not here to learn, but to preach. And remember he’s a 20 something year old landscaping company owner, who came into a molecule of success financially, it has given him wings… sad really.

You won't argue with him but make ad hominem attacks about him to another user in this exact same thread?
It comes off as really petty, jealous, and envious. Even childish.

I would argue that hereby he has proven his point (that he is happy), and that you are not happy.

What Johnny perpetuates is the Law 10- Infection: (Avoid the unhappy and unlucky) of the 48 Laws of Power.
And I totally agree with this, since negative people have influence over you, the same as positive people have influence over you. Which would you rather have?

A lot of unhappy and 'unlucky' people have bad habits, bad mindsets, bad morals, mostly because they have been led astray about how to be happy by common culture/religion/etc. Why would you want to expose your precious life to this unhappiness?

People who boast about their happiness defenitely ARE happy, because you will get hated for it by the unhappy majority. It takes balls to be happy in this unhappy-mediocrity-filled world of slaves.

I also see that his words are being twisted into a strawman, implying that when someone gets cancer he would cut them out of his life. Very low move, also attacking his character implying as if he would do that when getting cancer is not the same as being a headache / negative person.

Needing to make this into a strawman confirms that this is an emotional argument (out of envy of his happiness) instead of a rational argument.

I myself am a happy person too. The same strategy that Johnny uses. Be selfish. Cut negative people out of your life. The best thing you can do for the people you are close to, is being happy.

EDIT:
I also believe you are one of those to avoid, with the toxic "Life will beat you down" mindset/belief.
Hal Elrod, from the Miracle Morning book is a happy man, even after experiencing very traumatic situations. He survived a car accident, and a very agressive type of cancer (with extreme treatment).
You should read his books and grow out of that negative belief.
 
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Itizn

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I believe both of the following can be true:

- an individual can succumb to mental illness through factors out of their control (genetics, lack of adequate resources, incompetent medical diagnoses, just to name a few)

- an individual can force themselves down the rabbit-hole into a point of no-return through high-risk choices (alcohol and hard drug abuse, engaging with dangerous and nefarious people and activities, to name a few)

Needless to say, the remedy for one is not like the other.
 

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Stopped reading like 10% through. Leave anyone who is f*cked up enough to hurt themselves.

I'm not "Captain save-a-hoe". Thats my motto. I don't date headaches. I don't hire headaches. I don't befriend headaches. My life is awesome. All the headache people are in some other place giving other people headaches. Not me. I have a cheerful girlfriend. Cheerful customers. Cheerful employees. Cheerful friends. I love myself and don't want my life to suck.
Not dating, hiring or befriending headaches is one thing, and leaving someone because they run into a problem (and hence become a headache), whether mental or physical quite another. The latter is known as betrayal, and it’s not cool. In fact, look at how such betrayal has been punished historically and you’ll see it’s not nice. I would resent a “friend” or “lover” who does not stick by me through thick and thin.

Of course, you may feel that such betrayal is cool… in that case, not a problem, except that the rest of us may also feel the need to keep you at distance and isolate you.

This isn’t to say that the best solution is to remain living with such a person, but just because you make the decision that it’s better for both of you to separate doesn’t mean you stop caring about the other person or trying to help them.

It’s cool to love yourself, but you’re sort of not loving yourself enough if you don’t give a damn about anyone else. Human beings have needs for connection and support, yourself included.

Cognitive Behavior Therapy is what many work on.
Mental health is a field that is, imo, in serious distress. Even therapy such as CBT (often considered the gold standard for many conditions, including depression) have a relatively low success rate.

I have personally never found a bullet proof way to personality change. You may have a tendency towards anxiety or depression or what not, and you’ll probably carry that in some form or another woth you for life. You can learn to manage it better, but cure it? I’d say that is rare, and we don’t have a blueprint for it.
My(21F) boyfriend (21M) was admitted into a psychiatric hospital this morning
Your boyfriend sounds like he’s dealing woth a lot more than just depression and anxiety. This honestly sounds like some personality disorder with roots in childhood, since the triggers are very obvious, he’s acting out, and the outbursts are very strong and uncontrollable.

I wouldn’t trust any doctor, try to research about these conditions and think with your own minds what can help. Doctors can sometimes mess you up more than otherwise. It seems like discontinuing the meds was very bad for example. Iatrogenesis (death due to medical errors) is the third leading cause of death in the US, behind only heart disease and cancer. Not a joke. You need to be careful, YOU, not doctors are ultimately responsible.

As for how you deal with this, you may need to separate from him momentarily and make sure he gets the help he needs. You cannot “pull him out” without his help and cooperation. Something needs to also come from him. You can encourage and guide him, but you cannot do it for him.


I would argue that hereby he has proven his point (that he is happy), and that you are not happy.
He may be, or he might not be. I don’t know. The question is how will he deal with hardship in his own life when it will arrive? How will he deal with going bankrupt for example? How will he deal with, for example, getting arrested? Dealing with hardship is what shows character.

It’s easy to be strong & happy when everything is working out for you
 

KAIZOS

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He may be, or he might not be. I don’t know. The question is how will he deal with hardship in his own life when it will arrive? How will he deal with going bankrupt for example? How will he deal with, for example, getting arrested? Dealing with hardship is what shows character.

It’s easy to be strong & happy when everything is working out for you

I disagree. It is hard to be happy when you have not experienced hardships. Because only after experiencing the lows do the highs feel great.

Most often, things work out BECAUSE you come from a place of hardship and decided change.

I have personally never found a bullet proof way to personality change.

I recommend the book "Personality Isn't Permanent". Lot's of insights about this topic 5/5
 

Mattie

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Mental health is a field that is, imo, in serious distress. Even therapy such as CBT (often considered the gold standard for many conditions, including depression) have a relatively low success rate.

I have personally never found a bullet proof way to personality change. You may have a tendency towards anxiety or depression or what not, and you’ll probably carry that in some form or another woth you for life. You can learn to manage it better, but cure it? I’d say that is rare, and we don’t have a blueprint for it.
I do not recall I pointed out there was a bullet proof cure for Depression. I was pointing out there is more then just Depression that causes suicide. Nor did I claim the Medical/Mental Health system is 100% accurate every time with every diagnosis or cures in the field. It is often upgrading medical and mental health technology as we go through the decades. In the present there are people working on this very topic in research and technology.

You can have many disorders and experience suicidal tendencies. This is why I pointed out in the first part it depends on the diagnosis, the treatment plan, and what the Psychiatrist or Psychologist and Physicians have determined from the event and is personal case.
 

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no one finds themselves there. They make decisions that PUT them there. Even in the language describing these situations there is a lack of accountability.
As much as I would like to tell you how dumb you are, I won't because I was you at 24. Once you bake a little longer and realize you aren't as smart or wise as you THINK you are, your tune will change.

I work in mental health. It is far too simplified to say that someone chose this. Its a condition. And someone can choose to improve the condition, but they have to get to the point where they make that choice. This person does indeed probably need a lot of support right now. Support does not include someone barking at them and telling them that they are choosing their current condition. You actually can say the wrong things and push someone who is feeling hopeless over the edge and BOOM.....another statistic.

You said your life is awesome. Let me tell you something......it takes one instant for ALL that to change.
 

Black_Dragon43

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I disagree. It is hard to be happy when you have not experienced hardships. Because only after experiencing the lows do the highs feel great.

Most often, things work out BECAUSE you come from a place of hardship and decided change.
You mentioned Hal Elrod in your post above. Yes, it’s 100% true that the man overcame tremendous suffering. But before his accident he was a happy go lucky dude. After his accident initially he was depressed and anxious and then he returned to his happy go lucky attitude. Research shows that people have a baseline of happiness, and they generally return to it regardless of outside circumstances. A depressed guy wins the lottery and is super happy for a few days or months, but then he returns to being depressed. A happy guy has an accident and is depressed for awhile and then returns to being a happy guy. Permanently altering your default state is DIFFICULT and there is no proven roadmap to doing it.


I recommend the book "Personality Isn't Permanent". Lot's of insights about this topic 5/5
I’ve read Personality isn’t Permanent. Useful advice, for sure. I wouldn’t say that it’s a solution to mental health issues though. Have a witness, overcome trauma, have big goals, etc. these things are easier said than done.

For me Personality isn’t Permanent was a useful “summary” of a lot of other books I’ve read about behavior change. But there’s nothing “bullet proof” in there. Even therapy is more effective than what you find inside, and therapy doesn’t have a great track record. Non-specific interventions aren’t as useful when dealing with behavior issues rooted in mental health.
 

VentureVoyager

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I also see that his words are being twisted into a strawman, implying that when someone gets cancer he would cut them out of his life. Very low move, also attacking his character implying as if he would do that when getting cancer is not the same as being a headache / negative person.

It is not a strawman, this is not the first time I hear preachy, condescending and totally cocky-ignorant message about mental health from our boy Johnny boy. Depression and anxiety is a medical condition just like cancer. People don't f*cking chose it. If you know better and are mental health expert, maybe you shoud get the Nobel prize in Psychiatry or Psychology. People sacrifice all ther lives to psychiatry and the study of anxiety and depression, you know. But hey, here's this 20 something years old guy who knows better lol because his business is going well and his life is great. And he won't deal with mentaly sick losers like us. And yeah, just go watch this coach and read that book, it will heal your depression for sure. As someone who romanced with suicide, I don't appreciate reading this bullshit that it's my fault and that people with depression put theselves into depression. Even though it is PARTLY true, but it's a deep, deep topic. But in this very topic, to post a reply like this in front of a serious human tragedy, is a true dickery and emotional stupidity as far as I'm concerned.

It's just not true, it's ignorant, it's dumb, it's disgusting. It's exactly the same to say that someone got cancer and it's their fault because they weren't following the all-healthy diet from this or that book or youtube channel.

And I'm not saying whether he's happy or not, not my business, I believe he's a very cool and inspiring guy in real life and woul be great to meet him one day, I just think that he's still very young and too cocky.

I totally agree with Biggeemac and Black Dragon on this, so no need to say more.
It's one thing to avoid dating people with problems (generally a good advice most of times, but sometimes you just fall in love and that's it, especially when you're young and exprienced), and another to stay in a relationship with someone for 2 years and then leave them as soon as serious problems appear. My parody of an ex did exactly that to me and she's probably the only person on this planet whom I wish bad things on (not proud to say that but it's really hard to forget something like this, the lowest human behavior possible. Even animals care for each other).

Getting back to the main thread:
@johansunburg - I'm not a psychiatrist nor a professional, but I struggled with depression for about 4 years of my life and got dangerously close to suicide 2 or 3 times. The only reason I didn't do it was simply fear and respect for my sister, friends and family (didn't want to mentally criple them for the rest of their lives). I can't give you advice because I'm not licenced and I don't know your boyfriend, but:

-Just be with him. Don't demand anything, don't push him, let him be. That's what I needed and wasn't given. Just let him know that whatever happens, you will be there for him and that you love him. Without tryin to change him, with patience. Maybe just a friendly nudge here and there. Love has the ability to heal, really, as cheesy as it might sound. Most mental and physical illnesses come from lack of love or closseness / meaningful relationships. No bullshit banals such as "other people have it worse", "just go take a walk", "kids in Africa are starving and you.." "you will get better you will see" "you should see people with real problems" "read this book, it will heal your depression". Just be there for him and wit him. Listen to him. Be like water.

-Therapy is great, and it helped me a lot (but you need a good therapist with a calling, not some money counting doc who doesn't give a damn about his patients, only his new mercedes. I was lucky enough to receive a great recommendation from my friend who's a doctor and got terribly depressed after a breakup)

-Be sure to check his overall physical health. In my case, my depression, among other reasons such as super weird parents (halfway autistic dad, obsessivly religious mom etc) came from Hashimoto's disease and Lyme disease (and for years I had absolutely no idea that I had them). I actually healed Hashimoto (or put it into remission) with herbs, iodine and unconventinal medicine (the conventional medicine was unable to help me) - could recommend you a Polish guy who heals people with diet, herbs and supplements. He studied in London and speaks English. I think he's an angel sent to Earth to help people.

-Also be sure to check for all deficiencies - mostly vitamin d3 (you should supplement D3K2 daily, around 2000 UI, especially if you live in the northern hemisphere, lack of D3 will ruin your mind and body), vitamin C, magnesium, zinc, and all of B group vitamines. Some people can't absorb B vitamines and hence their mental problems, so you might buy the methylated version.

-Check his microbiome and bowel health. With bad bacterial flora, depression is almost guaranteed. Invest in good probiotics, fermented foods, fresh real milk (from the cow, not the shit they sell in supermarket), these are the best probiotics. You can also do the bacterial flora transplant.

-Perform a brain scan. Again, it could be a physical problem, tumor, whatever. You never know.

-What helped my depression, other than therapy? Escitalopram. I don't know his medical history (do you know what medicine he was taking and if it helped him at least before he quit taking it?), and what he's tried, but in my case, escitalopram practically saved my life. I'm still on it, low dosage, just 20 g daily and I feel like a new born. A 180* change almost. I was super doubtful for a long time and wouldn't listen to my therapist, but at one point hit the rock bottom and started contemplating suicide again. I started taking the pills, no side effects, my mood improved 500% (well, it's hard to multiply 0 and my mood was 0 or even below 0). I did my research and generic escitalopram has the best success rate to failure rate on drugs.com and many other websites and forums. Actually my psychiatrist gave my a free hand to choose my own medicine (she presented me with many options) and I chose escitalopram on my own.

Apart from that, nature, sun, mindfulness, good food and people. Anyway, I don't want to be coaching you/him and shit, as I don't even know you guys, but I'm wishing you all the best!

Also, take into consideration that suicide success rate in males is at about 95% and around 40% in females. That means if he really wanted to end this game, he could've done that alone and to his desired effect. All that tells me that it was a shriek of desperation more than real suicide attempt (wasn't there however, so I don't know, but it's what I would say).
Means there's still space to help him. And he's still super young.

Let me know or send me a PM if you need some help.
 
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AceVentures

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Although I agree with some folks here that suggest you ought to stay away from negativity - if you have the courage and strength to see thru it, then you can take leadership and bring him up with you. Time after time, I have thought about abandoning my partner which I always thought had a limited mindset. Until I realized this "choice" of leaving was simply due to my own lack of leadership and ability to navigate tough waters. Since then, I can simply show my partner how I think, and I can get her on board with me.

Offering unconditional love and support can have a magical outcome - if you see him thru this, he can also now embody the same perspective around love. This strength you share with him can bounce back and be a source of support for you if and when you personally go thru a struggle as well.

If you can, inspire a more hopeful mindset in him. If you laugh, if you continue to be hopeful and not beat down, perhaps he can feed off of that energy. On the topic of mindset, one trick I have found that works wonders is if you can continuously think about "what would this look like if it were easy"? Try to have these talks with him, where you both dream about a scenario in which this whole dilemma could poof disappear and the both of you are laughing and loving each other. Try to plant that seed in his mind, because if the possibility exists in his mind, the opportunity can arise for himself to manifest it.

Encourage him to do something - or better yet do something with him. Something that actively engages his thinking capacity. Start a new project with him - and see him through taking action against this project. At first, the simpler the better.

If there's something he's ever been passionate about, or something he has the slightest curiosity towards, this can become something you leverage in the form of an actionable project. Does he love cars? Maybe you can start a project in which he creates a new collection of pictures of Cars he admires. Maybe he can start drawing some of these cars. Maybe he can start drawing isometric sketches of these cars. Maybe you can get him to take these sketches and give them to young boys/girls that are also fascinated by cars. These are all arbitrary examples, but simply trying to paint a picture that if he can do something, anything, that something presents windows of time during which he can step outside of himself.

Someone else mentioned this, but movement can be a critical element in ushering in new thoughts/emotions. Going for a walk while listening to music. There are many emotions that can become attached to music, and simply listening to songs can help as a reminder. I personally use music every single day to bring myself back, and I have also taught my partner to use this same trick when she feels emotionally unwell.

Perhaps you can go on a hike with the goal of finding as many new species of fungi or plants as you can! Maybe you can then start a little project of trying to do sketches of these species you find in the wild. Or maybe you can encourage him to start a new social profile centered around sharing beautiful imagery of nature, and day by day contribute to this memoir of beauty.

*EDIT: diet is also another critical element. What is he eating and drinking? They can be having a detrimental effect on his endocrine system. Try to eat more vegetables and drink plenty of water. Try to reduce light in the evenings in order to get his circadian rhythm back in check. Getting quality sleep can literally end his misery if that's what he's been lacking.

Win and let win. You do not need to escape tough situations. Overcoming these situations can lead to a much stronger communion and mutual understanding between the two of you. However, you can only pursue this route if you're comfortable enough with yourself. Patience and the willingness to fight on - these will become much easier if you can adopt a perspective that things CAN be easy. That his failures and weaknesses have nothing to do with who you are as a person, and that what the situation looks like today does NOT have to be projected into the future.

Chin up - better days ahead!
 
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