Learning to Program is STUPID! (or SMART?!)

[Siberia]

You have 28 pages in this thread going over that exact thing, and now you want to someone to spoon feed it to you? How about making an effort, that would be the most important thing to do.

I thank you for your clarification. The effort I've already 'done I read them all. I also read Jack's article that you should read. After reading the article I asked Jack, as a programmer, his opinion. Perhaps it might have something original to add to the previous 28 pages. Do not you think?

 

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[Siberia]

Love ya healthstatus but I disagree,

I'm learning how to code as we speak. Have been for a while now. I love learning this just as much as I enjoy learning about all other aspects of business. Instead of saying that learning something you want to learn is "stupid", perhaps you should say that it wasn't beneficial to YOU. To tell anyone that learning anything is stupid is in fact, stupid, and I know you're smarter than that.

I also enjoy learning how to cook, speak different languages, sew, and a million other things. I'm not stupid I'm enlightened and interested.



All the best,

Cory

Even i am not stupid i'm enlightened and interested. I prefer buy two things: 1. The ready code for my website and my app; 2. The

Love ya healthstatus but I disagree,

I'm learning how to code as we speak. Have been for a while now. I love learning this just as much as I enjoy learning about all other aspects of business. Instead of saying that learning something you want to learn is "stupid", perhaps you should say that it wasn't beneficial to YOU. To tell anyone that learning anything is stupid is in fact, stupid, and I know you're smarter than that.

I also enjoy learning how to cook, speak different languages, sew, and a million other things. I'm not stupid I'm enlightened and interested.



All the best,

Cory

Hi Cory, I respect your point of wiew but
I make the entrepreneur. I do not want to find out the wheel. This has already 'done. www.getbootstrap.com (Fluent code multidevice that update continuously). I want to buy and learn the procedure to introduce in my company to handle internet programmers. the procedure that the same deviating respected in their work. I'm trying to figure out what to do to get this result. I will not buy the event but learning the process of corporate management process for programmers. What do you think, is possible to do it?

 

[Siberia]

[QUOTE="Siberia, post: 555139, member: 39637

Hi Cory, I respect your point of wiew but
I make the entrepreneur. I do not want to find out the wheel. This has already 'done. www.getbootstrap.com (Fluent code multidevice that update continuously). I want to buy and learn the procedure to introduce in my company to handle internet programmers. the procedure that the same deviating respected in their work. I'm trying to figure out what to do to get this result. I will not buy the event but learning the process of corporate management process for programmers. What do you think, is possible to do it?[/QUOTE]

 

[ExcelGuy]

I still don't understand why people here want to learn to code!
...
Learn to market and write copy:
1000 hours learning to market and write code, while that 1000 hours is going on, pay someone that has 10,000 hours of training on apps to write your app.
Start marketing your app immediately.
Sell lots of your app.
Pass any support issues to the developer
Sell lots more of your app.
Create 3 more apps and market the hell out of them
Go to the bank often to deposit checks.

I see the logic here... except I already learned how to code I like the results of learning how to market and copy though. Now to find a good ebook with an affiliate program...

The one thing I hate about forums is that I probably will not read the entire 25 pages of previous replies but it looks like an interesting talk.

 

[ExcelGuy]

Pretty decent advice here.
...
Good advice would be to take a weekend and pay a really, really good programmer to give you an intensive training on a LAMP stack (normal hosting environment) and some kind of overview on basic concepts of programming (database connection & interraction, arrays, loops & scraping).
...

Great business idea! I should design that course, host it at UDemy, and I'll give everyone on Fastlane a $10 discount

 

[Siberia]

I see the logic here... except I already learned how to code I like the results of learning how to market and copy though. Now to find a good ebook with an affiliate program...

The one thing I hate about forums is that I probably will not read the entire 25 pages of previous replies but it looks like an interesting talk.

May be.....may be!!!!

 

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[ZF Lee]

Jack Ma doesn't code. But he does have business acumen.

Holds mass weddings for promotion, plays up publicity.

 

[arfadugus]

Luckily I realised this early.

I study copy, it opens doors. I team with coders.

Is there a book that teaches you how to write copy?

 

[Delmania]

Some food for thought. Zuckerberg didn't make his mark writing sales copy; he made it programming in PHP. Gates didn't make his mark writing sales copy. C and ASM were his tools of choice. Learning sales copy isn't some miracle that's going to make your rich and it's not pointless. It's a tool. What you DO with tool is what gets you there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[juan917]

Is there a book that teaches you how to write copy?

Read through the thread there have been plenty of books mentioned

 

[Siberia]

Is there a book that teaches you how to write copy?

Hi,
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/members/crypto.10055/

Is there a book that teaches you how to write copy?

 

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[Niptuck MD]

i cant stand programming nor do i ever aspire to do so. not to say i would ever possibly consider embarking on it, but i would leave that to a professional. some people programming comes naturally and for some others they do it out of necessity. like others have retorted, you get what you pay for. finding a great grandois web designer is hard these days. im sure there are many on this forum however.

 

[healthstatus]

Some food for thought. Zuckerberg didn't make his mark writing sales copy; he made it programming in PHP. Gates didn't make his mark writing sales copy.

They didn't start their companies in the last 7 years either. My points on these are fully discussed earlier in the thread.

 

[Delmania]

They didn't start their companies in the last 7 years either. My points on these are fully discussed earlier in the thread.

After searching through the 5 pages of your posts in this thread, I wasn't able to find out what you said, but I can guess. Something to the effect of the rapid advancement in technology and how those people started when things were newer.

Anyways, on this forum, people throw around writing sales copy like it's the holy grail of entrepreneurship; like it's the one skill you need to learn. If you're not learning how to write copy, you're wasting your time. It's the silver bullet; the magic pill. I believe the premise of this is that you're better off learning to write sales copy and outsourcing your development.

I'm hardly one to speak, as I am the exact opposite of a successful entrepreneur, but I would argue it's not writing sales copy that's important, it's important to learn how to sell and market your product. I can name a few successful one man shops that have the person writing an selling an application.

Learning to code is not stupid, the stupidity comes from the belief that all you need to succeed is a killer product. Learning to code is a good idea, learning to sell and market is a good idea, learning to do BOTH is a great idea.

 

[healthstatus]

I am the exact opposite of a successful entrepreneur, but I would argue

maybe that is why you aren't successful...

 

[Delmania]

maybe that is why you aren't successful...

Why? Because I like to argue? Or because I don't buy that writing sales copy is the one thing you need to succeed? Either is wrong, there's a host of other reasons, but they're not important.

 

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[arfadugus]

SOME of the books recommended to me by a pro copywriter.

However if you want to accelerate you'll need to pay for a mentor

"Scientific Advertising" Claude Hopkins

"Tested Advertising" Caples (4th edition or earlier only)

"How I Raised Myself from a Failure to Success in Selling" Betger

"How to Write a Good Advertisement" Schwab.

"How to Write Sales Letters That Sell" Drayton Bird

"The Robert Collier Letter Book" - by Robert Collier

"Tested Advertising Methods" -by John Caples

"The Lazy Man's Way to Riches" - by Joe Karbo

"Break-Through Advertising" - by Eugene M. Schwartz

"Advertising Secrets of The Written Word" by Joe Sugarman

"Making Ads Pay" by John Caples

Web Copy That Sells by Maria Veloso

The Architecture of Persuasion by Michael Masterson

Influence The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini

The Adweek Copywriting Handbook by Joe Sugarman

"The Elements of Copywriting" by Gary Blake and Robert Bly

"The Ultimate Sales Letter" by Dan Kennedy

Cashvertising by Drew Eric Whitman

"Write to sell " it is written by Andy Maslen

"Influencing Human Behaviour" by H.A.

"Tested Sentences That Sell" by Elmer Wheeler

"Unlimited Selling Power" by Moine and Lloyd.

Writing for Emotional Impact by Karl Iglesias

Bob Bly's "The Copywriter's Handbook"

How To Make Your Advertising Make Money - John Caples

The Copywriters Handbook - Bob Bly

The Adweek Copywriting Handbook - Joseph Sugarman

Sales Letters That Sizzle - Herschell Gordon Lewis

Cash Copy - Jeffrey Lant

Magic Words That Bring You Riches - Ted Nicholas

Ogilvy On Advertising

Method Marketing by Denny Hatch.

My First 50 Years in Advertising by Maxwell Sackheim.

The Greatest Direct Mail Sales Letters of all Time " by Richard Hodgson.

How To Write Advertising That Sells by Clyde Bedell

Ads That Sell by Bob Bly

Advertising Headlines That Make You Rich-- David Garfinkle

Magic Words-- Ted Nicholas

Robert Collier Letter Book-- Robert Collier

My Life In Advertising -- Claude Hopkins

Bird - Commonsense

The First Hundred Million by E. Haldeman-Julius

David Ogilvy's "Blood, Brains and Beer"

"Confessions of an advertising man"

"Million Dollar Mailings" by Denison Hatch

"The Wizard of Ads" trilogy by Roy H. Williams

Making Ads Pay by John Caples

Method Marketing - Denison Hatch

"How to Write Sales Letters that Sell" by Drayton Bird.

Hypnotic Writing -- Joe Vitale

"The Lazy Man's Way to Riches" - by Joe Karbo

Denny Hatch's Million Dollar Mailings

What are the top 5 books from this list to learn copywriting? I don't have time to read 53 books lol

 

[Siberia]

The contents and programming are two different things not to be confused.

 

[fhs8]

My version:

Learn to market and write copy:
You currently have $15,000 in your bank account
1000 hours learning to market and write code, while that 1000 hours is going on, pay someone $11,000 that has 10,000 hours of training on apps to write your app.
Start marketing your app immediately.
Nobody buys your app.
Pass any support issues to the developer
Your developer asks for $1,000 to fix issues.
You then realize some simple features that could be added to the app
Your developer asks for $3,000 to add those features.
Your app doesn't get a single purchase after a month.
Try to create 3 more apps and market the hell out of them since your first one was a total failure
Your developer asks for $30,000 but you don't have the money.
You didn't take coding seriously because your developer was doing it so that 1000 hours was never put in.

...Or you could first finish putting in 1,000 hours of both learning to market and write code without paying someone to write your apps. Then you won't have the problem with running out of money.

Also another thing never said is that app developers don't care that much about your app. If you were making the app yourself you'd test it to make sure there's no bugs and add features that suddenly pop in your head. Change layout to something good instead of just anything.

 

[healzer]

My version:
....

You are correct, but there's another side to the coin.
If you, as a business man, have the connections/experience to make the app successful, and you know exactly what you're doing then it's the right way to go.
However for most of us, who have neither the experience nor the connections we have to take the hard(er) road by learning how to code ourselves so we can cut costs and risks. We actually put our own time at risk. But knowing how to code isn't necessarily a nerd-ish thing, by having the knowledge we are able to asses other freelancers/companies and know exactly when they are trying to rip you off (by charging too much for instance), since we know how much time/effort it would take to make something. This allows us to negotiate the deal much better.

 

[healthstatus]

Nobody buys your app.

If you would have learned marketing and copywriting, then you would have presold the idea to a number of people and realized no one was going to buy your useless idea and not spent the money having it coded.

Pass any support issues to the developer
Your developer asks for $1,000 to fix issues.

Why did you accept delivery and pay in full on a buggy untested app?

You didn't take coding seriously because your developer was doing it so that 1000 hours was never put in.

If you tested your idea in the marketplace first, you still have all your money and most of your time.

But let's go down this road, you spend 1000 hours and write an app, the app has two serious bugs in it, one allows hackers access to the devices your app resides on, the second causes random additional charges to the devices credit cards. You have to pay $300,000.00 defending yourself in court that you didn't do this intentionally.

 

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[fhs8]

If you would have learned marketing and copywriting, then you would have presold the idea to a number of people and realized no one was going to buy your useless idea and not spent the money having it coded.

...Or you could first finish putting in 1,000 hours of both learning to market and write code

I already mentioned to learn both. I never said to not learn marketing and copy-writing.

Why did you accept delivery and pay in full on a buggy untested app?

Some bugs are hard to find and have to do with parsing packets or a certain series of steps. Even big name apps have bugs that's why there's updates all the time for most apps. Also maybe the dev is demanding payment before

If you tested your idea in the marketplace first, you still have all your money and most of your time.

You can do that and learn how to program at the same time.

But let's go down this road, you spend 1000 hours and write an app, the app has two serious bugs in it, one allows hackers access to the devices your app resides on, the second causes random additional charges to the devices credit cards. You have to pay $300,000.00 defending yourself in court that you didn't do this intentionally.

All of this is nonsense. Apps are very rarely hacked. Most apps will never run into this issue to begin with since it'll be the client that starts the connection. Why would you need an app to listen on a port for incoming connections? Makes no sense. Also how would the data be parsed so that it even lets hackers access the device? Hence why apps don't get hacked. Show me one news report where an app was hacked that didn't have malware intentionally put on it already.

Random additional charges? How would that happen? I don't think an app would pass approval if it was intentionally coded to charge credit cards randomly. You would also never have to pay $300,000 in court you would simply receive chargebacks with the reason code of being duplicates.

Of course if you don't understand programming then how do you know that your dev didn't put in a backdoor?

What I learned in life is that if you do something to benefit yourself you typically care the most/put the most effort. If you make an app to get out of poverty you're going to look at every little detail, think of ways to make it better while making it, think what the user will do while on the app, etc... An app dev just wants to get it done to go on the next app.

 

[healthstatus]

Apps are very rarely hacked.

https://securityintelligence.com/how-to-hack-a-mobile-app-its-easier-than-you-think/

 

[fhs8]

https://securityintelligence.com/how-to-hack-a-mobile-app-its-easier-than-you-think/

I watched the video and yes mobile apps are hackable if the user that's holding on the phone intentionally hacks it or the user downloads a malicious app. No where did they demonstrate apps being hacked by sending packets over the internet. If the app becomes popular then you can always hire devs to work on the app later to secure it.

 

[UncleIroh]

https://www.upwork.com/blog/2014/01/app-making-101-hire-developer-or-learn-to-code/

 

[AustinS28]

I've been enjoying coding for the past two months.

I outsourced the work for my app to a developer.

Now I can get on github and understand his work. I can't build it yet but it makes sense.

Ruby on Rails hasn't been that hard to pick up. I'm no where near a pro but every week I'm better.

I think knowing how to code is an invaluable skill. Everything is digital these days. I've also set sights on working for someone to get better and learn until my apps take off. We'll see about that.

I'd hate to run an online business/software service and not know how all the pieces work.

I don't know why anyone would discourage someone from learning to code. Why couldn't you learn to code and write copy?

 

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[healthstatus]

I don't know why anyone would discourage someone from learning to code.

As I have said repeatedly in this thread, there is this theory that you can take an online course or read a book and be able to write professional level code in six months or less. You can't. If you could, you would then have to learn how to sell your application. You would be much better served to take those 6 months learn how to SELL and make some money, then pay to have a professional programmer do your MVP while you developed your sales funnel. A lot more people have the aptitude to be able to sell, than have the aptitude to write high quality code.

 

[AustinS28]

As I have said repeatedly in this thread, there is this theory that you can take an online course or read a book and be able to write professional level code in six months or less. You can't. If you could, you would then have to learn how to sell your application. You would be much better served to take those 6 months learn how to SELL and make some money, then pay to have a professional programmer do your MVP while you developed your sales funnel. A lot more people have the aptitude to be able to sell, than have the aptitude to write high quality code.

Sure I see your point if you're learning to code to launch an application you have the idea for now. Totally agree - hire someone.

But are you also saying because something takes more than 6-12 months to learn and is a hard skill to master to just not do it? That I totally disagree with.

I can't understand the mentality. If someone else is skilled enough to do the work. Why can't I learn that skill?

If you make every decision based on the present how are you ever going to better yourself? What will be worth learning. You can't learn much in a day, why bother trying anything? I hope to be alive another 60 years. It makes 0 sense to me not to do something I can master in 3-5 of those years because it's hard.

Hopefully not veering too far off topic, because the op is exactly how I'm handling my current app. I am not coding it. The MVP would be done so much further from now if I did it and in this case time is of the essence.

 

[Sharilli]

I still don't understand why people here want to learn to code!

Spend that time learning to market and write sales copy. Spending 1000 hours to learn to code to spend 200 hours writing an app is STUPID.

Spend the 1000 hours learning to market and write copy, and you can use that skill for the life of the app, plus the life of the next app, and other peoples apps AND it makes you money. Writing code just means you have something, but it won't sell itself.

Here is how it will work if you learn to code:
1000 hours learning to code.
200 hours writing an app.
wait for a sale, wait some more, wait some more.
Spend 1000 hours learning to market and write copy.
sell some of your app
spend 150 hours fixing bugs and responding to support issues because your app is crap because it takes 5000 hours to really learn how to code.
get frustrated and yank your app because of the PITA factor and all the bad reviews of your app.


Learn to market and write copy:
1000 hours learning to market and write code, while that 1000 hours is going on, pay someone that has 10,000 hours of training on apps to write your app.
Start marketing your app immediately.
Sell lots of your app.
Pass any support issues to the developer
Sell lots more of your app.
Create 3 more apps and market the hell out of them
Go to the bank often to deposit checks.

Do you SEE the difference????

Smart.

 

[Sharilli]

Without giving up ownership....

Copyright your shit, secure your business.