Learning to Program is STUPID! (or SMART?!)

[Iwokeup]

Knowing how to code will open up certain opportunities that those who do not know how to code will miss.

But this can be said for every skill such as copywriting, marketing, SEO, etc.

Just learn as much as you can. Learn what you enjoy, learn what you need.

The more you learn the more you earn. As long as you are willing to bust your a$$ and apply your knawlege.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Funny. You and I, and @thorn (who has an extensive coding background) and I separately had variations of JUST this conversation this weekend.

I like learning to code if it will quickly (and cheaply) solve an immediate problem. I actually have enjoyed the small tasks and find it fun. I would DIE if I had to learn enough to code a big project. Just not where my interests lie.

 

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[TonyStark]

This is a good discussion. I like the way people learn from the bottom up. It really seems to solidify those "entrepreneurial" values to me. Someone that comes to mind when I'm asking these questions are people like Elon Musk or Bill Gates. These guys were autodidacts who had many skills. The reason, I believe, that their businesses are so great are because they're able to go down to any level of the process/production and see the errors or mistakes that are being made, and change/fix them.

 

[TonyStark]

I understand some people might want to 'outsource' parts of the process, but there really is no substitute for hard work. Like they say, "If you want something done right, you better do it yourself."

 

[KingSaul]

IMO Learning code has its benefits for improving your logic and rational skills. Also having some code skills is good for troubleshooting if something is minor and fixable with lil coding skill instead of paying someone.

 

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[hellolin]

IMO Learning code has its benefits for improving your logic and rational skills. Also having some code skills is good for troubleshooting if something is minor and fixable with lil coding skill instead of paying someone.

But develop a software of what you want is so much more than just coding, if you ever worked in a software shop you should know this, coding is maybe only 30% of the work needed to come out with a decent software product. The one man app writer success stories that you see are all the best of the best coder's work, but I bet majority of those app developer's product is a mess and it will take someone who doesn't know how to code a long time before they are able to get what they want.

 

[madmoney]

But develop a software of what you want is so much more than just coding, if you ever worked in a software shop you should know this, coding is maybe only 30% of the work needed to come out with a decent software product. The one man app writer success stories that you see are all the best of the best coder's work, but I bet majority of those app developer's product is a mess and it will take someone who doesn't know how to code a long time before they are able to get what they want.

But develop a software of what you want is so much more than just coding, if you ever worked in a software shop you should know this, coding is maybe only 30% of the work needed to come out with a decent software product. The one man app writer success stories that you see are all the best of the best coder's work, but I bet majority of those app developer's product is a mess and it will take someone who doesn't know how to code a long time before they are able to get what they want.

I got too much on my plate at the time to learn to code. If I hire like, 99designs, can they duplicate my app idea to something much similar? Does anyone have any experience with this? is there a thread on this?

 

[Roli]

I have had two solid ideas for apps which I wouldn't have had if I wasn't learning to code, I've "designed" one of them already and "tested" it out on a potential customer and got great feedback.

I will learn to code to the point it makes sense to concentrate on developing it with experienced programmers.

 

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[healthstatus]

I understand some people might want to 'outsource' parts of the process, but there really is no substitute for hard work. Like they say, "If you want something done right, you better do it yourself."

So you won't use an attorney if you need to go to court? Or go to a restaurant if you want an incredible meal? Did you build your own house? There are lots of substitutes for hard work, like being smart. If there is a wall in front us, many of you will start running into it trying to bust it down, others will start trying to climb over it, I'm going to use the door.

Many of you have this notion that PROFESSIONAL LEVEL coding is easy. It isn't.

 

[Roli]

So you won't use an attorney if you need to go to court? Or go to a restaurant if you want an incredible meal? Did you build your own house? There are lots of substitutes for hard work, like being smart. If there is a wall in front us, many of you will start running into it trying to bust it down, others will start trying to climb over it, I'm going to use the door.

Many of you have this notion that PROFESSIONAL LEVEL coding is easy. It isn't.

I think I had a notion that professional level coding would be easier than it is, but that notion was torpedoed in about the 3rd coding class I did Horses for courses, some will take to coding and become pros, others won't take to it at all and others like (hopefully) me, will fall somewhere in the middle and along the way I'll set up an app with the base classes and functionality and then have an intelligent conversation with an experienced programmer (who probably rips my work to shreds ).

 

[Torobaro]

I think I had a notion that professional level coding would be easier than it is, but that notion was torpedoed in about the 3rd coding class I did Horses for courses, some will take to coding and become pros, others won't take to it at all and others like (hopefully) me, will fall somewhere in the middle and along the way I'll set up an app with the base classes and functionality and then have an intelligent conversation with an experienced programmer (who probably rips my work to shreds ).

Hi Roli,

I might be biased by my own experience and imposing my limiting beliefs on you but what about having a conversation with an experienced programmer form the beggining?

I tried learning to code once and quit when an experienced programmer told me, programming is the "easiest part" meaning when your app is done you have to get people to pay and use it. After that I more or less quit coding and continued working on my selling skills

 

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[Roli]

Hi Roli,

I might be biased by my own experience and imposing my limiting beliefs on you but what about having a conversation with an experienced programmer form the beggining?

I tried learning to code once and quit when an experienced programmer told me, programming is the "easiest part" meaning when your app is done you have to get people to pay and use it. After that I more or less quit coding and continued working on my selling skills

I will eventually, I am raising capital at the moment, the more I learn to code, the more I realise how much I'm going to have to pay an experienced coder to develop my idea, it's super complex, but it will be worth it. I think I'll need about £10k to get even a rough working beta and I simply don't have that cash.

I could try and get funding for it, though I don't believe I'm in a position to do that, that's not being limiting, just realistic.

Or I could just concentrate on raising the funds and ignore coding.

However learning coding has given me so much and it really fits me as a skill, it has helped me develop my idea and understand how to make things possible. Whilst coding may not be the "hard part" it is definitely the essential part and I believe I have saved a lot of messing about by learning this.

If I was learning to the detriment of getting on and paying someone, then I would 100% agree with you, case in point, I am about to set up another affiliate site at the moment, the site will be pretty simple and kind of templatey, so I thought I'd give it a bash myself. It took about 6 days to realise I should pay someone.

6 days later (last night) I was paid some commission I was due and I have posted the job on codeable.io, because I have the cash now and getting the site up and running is more important than learning Wordpress (I'll do that in my spare [ha ha] time).

Ultimately you're right though, I am already thinking of ways to market it once it comes to fruition

 

[ejames]

So you won't use an attorney if you need to go to court? Or go to a restaurant if you want an incredible meal? Did you build your own house? There are lots of substitutes for hard work, like being smart. If there is a wall in front us, many of you will start running into it trying to bust it down, others will start trying to climb over it, I'm going to use the door.

Many of you have this notion that PROFESSIONAL LEVEL coding is easy. It isn't.

Well said. I'm a professional coder by trade and trust me it isn't easy to develop a well structured app

 

[hellolin]

Well said. I'm a professional coder by trade and trust me it isn't easy to develop a well structured app

Because when most people here said they are learning to "code", they simply mean learning the syntax of the language, little did they know that building an app is more like building a car or house from scratch, it requires so much more than just knowing the language, sometimes it takes years of practice and reading just to learn the structure of the application if you are on the enterprise side of stuff.

 

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[tchombo]

there is a lot to be said just like with any other profession. as most have already outlined it isn't just about learning java syntax. I have been studying computing for the past 3 years and i have the ability to code but i personally dont like it. A friend of mine was trying to convince me to work on his vision and his pitch went something like this... "T, you do not realize what you are throwing away, you have the ability to learn code quick and understand it yet you refuse to come work with me. you see we can have the freedom to work when we want on our projects and whats better is if we come up with an idea for a app, we ourselves can create it without outsourcing and that my friend is power"

is he right, i think he is correct. if your plan is to submerge yourself in the world of apps then you dont want to be outsourcing every single idea you have. then thats where it gets hard... you will have to spend months at the very least learning how to build applications (notice i did not say how to code). i to build as a hobby, but do i want to spend the rest of my life on the screen. lord no. but that is just me, im sure a lot of people do not mind especially the pros.

 

[Delmania]

little did they know that building an app is more like building a car or house from scratch,

It's easier to build a car or a house from scratch because those devices have standards and guidelines that must be followed to the detriment of the company. Only in very rare instances do those rigorous standards apply to software. Just think what would happen if we build cars like we did software. This is why I am extremely wary of automated cars.

 

[hellolin]

It's easier to build a car or a house from scratch because those devices have standards and guidelines that must be followed to the detriment of the company. Only in very rare instances do those rigorous standards apply to software. Just think what would happen if we build cars like we did software. This is why I am extremely wary of automated cars.

True, building software itself is a creative process, much like doing art or creative writing, but in a different sense. The only thing that developers follow from apps to apps maybe the design patterns each eco system uses, but other than that, a thousand different developers can come up with a thousand different ways of solving the same problem.

 

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[Martinv678]

As someone that code's professionally in the slowlane i'd just like to say it is both a blessing and a curse.

In the UK you get paid well which is ultimately good and you get to work on huge projects which means you gain knaaaawledge on where other companies suck (hidden needs).

What sucks is this can trap you... Coding requires full time logic solving and a lot of the time stupid deadlines (which push you hard). As I see myself creating a platform / app / ethereum mega business the last thing sometimes I want to do when I get home is code. This is a one way stop to burnoutville.

What's amazing though is I'll never have to pay a developer and I can generally turn around a solid prototype in a week and it cost nothing. But I wouldn't code product and here's why....

I work with people who actually love code. They go home think about it. Read about it. They don't care about the idea they just want to write good code. If you have no desire to be like this... Then hire them.

They will get it done quicker than you ever could imagine. Developers are expensive, but part of me thinks that if you find the right one, and you promise a cut, they would do it for FREE for the love of code.

Learning to code IS stupid if you're only doing it to create working prototypes or test ideas (as there are so many tools out there). If you want to build an app / mega website and you have tested the idea, then either hire and create shares of the business or learn to code. Be prepared... The market literally is moving so quick that you'd better be prepared to sprint.

 

[Ninjakid]

I've always liked the fact that I instead of having to come up with an excess of $10K and and find partners/hire people, all I need to build an app or a website is a computer and my brain.

 

[healthstatus]

I've always liked the fact that I instead of having to come up with an excess of $10K and and find partners/hire people, all I need to build an app or a website is a computer and my brain.

and the 5000+ hours of learning how to code at a professional level

 

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[hellolin]

and the 5000+ hours of learning how to code at a professional level

By the time you had that 5000 hour, most likely the technology that you are learning is way behind the curve already.

 

[ilrein]

By the time you had that 5000 hour, most likely the technology that you are learning is way behind the curve already.

By that logic no one would ever be a successful programmer. Yet clearly, there are.

 

[Daniel A]

I was going to go through The Complete Web Developer Course 2.0 this summer, but what I've read in the last few pages convinced me to at least hold it off for later. I have other things to do right now.

 

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[hellolin]

By that logic no one would ever be a successful programmer. Yet clearly, there are.

The very few that does, reality is that in any company the majority of the developers suck, only 1 or 2 that has the productivity to cover rest of them. Doesn't matter if its Google or Apple or your local software shop, it's very hard to find good developers. I belong to one just like that, unfortunately I am one of the bad ones at the moment...it's a long learning curve.

 

[ilrein]

It's nothing more than barrier to entry. The longer and more difficult the learning curve, the better it is for me.

 

[healthstatus]

It's nothing more than barrier to entry.

I'm sorry, but that is wrong.
It isn't a barrier to entry, there are thousands of people you can hire to do it cheaper, faster and better than you can trying to learn it and do it yourself.

 

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[hellolin]

I'm sorry, but that is wrong.
It isn't a barrier to entry, there are thousands of people you can hire to do it cheaper, faster and better than you can trying to learn it and do it yourself.

Again you might find a thousand more people that can code, but software development is so much more than code, the communication between team and between team and PM and the customer is so much more.

 

[nradam123]

Well, you can use the time you spent debating here whether to learn code to ACTUALLY learn how to code.

To help everyone interested I just wrote a tutorial in the forum - https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...l-1-the-hello-world-to-web-development.68423/

Give me some feedback so I can put up tutorials on something you guys really want to learn.

 

[ilrein]

I'm sorry, but that is wrong.
It isn't a barrier to entry, there are thousands of people you can hire to do it cheaper, faster and better than you can trying to learn it and do it yourself.

Since everybody does everything better than me, should I just get the gun now or?

 

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[Siberia]

Thanks for posting this, I can't agree more!

I always cringe when people write that they want to learn how to code. Its not worth it. It takes too long and as soon as you learned the basics there are 1000 things that changed on the technology side. Learn marketing and sales. Use your time to find a need. Don't learn to program if you want to be an entrepreneur. Even the great entrepreneurs in technology only coded the first prototype themselves and then let the specialists take over.

That said, I think every internet/technology entrepreneur should know about the basic technologies that his business is based on. The people wanting to start an ecommerce empire without knowing how to set up a site themselves are just as bad as the guys wanting to learn programming. This is also vital if you're eventually outsourcing/hiring for the technology/programming part, you won't get what you want/need if you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Yes i am agree with your mindset.

 

[seanjohn]

pretty sure kevin oleary of shark tank fame can't code. He partnered with a programmer and made millions in software.

This is the first guy that came to my mind.

He sold his software company for $4 BILLION without writing a line of code.

He's like Steve Jobs in a way -- he sees the potential and vision, understands the scope, puts the pieces (and people) in place.

These type of people are more common than you think. There's countless successful businesses with owners that wouldn't be able to do the actual grunt work.

That's not to say that learning programming is stupid. Just focus on your strengths. If learning the basics allows you to build and sell your product with more confidence, then do it. But it's not necessary.