Learning to Program is STUPID! (or SMART?!)

[InspireHD]

I was going to go through The Complete Web Developer Course 2.0 this summer, but what I've read in the last few pages convinced me to at least hold it off for later. I have other things to do right now.

I've been going through The Web Developer's Bootcamp by Colt Steele. I highly recommend it. I'm about 80% or so through it. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

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[Siberia]

This is the first guy that came to my mind.

He sold his software company for $4 BILLION without writing a line of code.

He's like Steve Jobs in a way -- he sees the potential and vision, understands the scope, puts the pieces (and people) in place.

These type of people are more common than you think. There's countless successful businesses with owners that wouldn't be able to do the actual grunt work.

That's not to say that learning programming is stupid. Just focus on your strengths. If learning the basics allows you to build and sell your product with more confidence, then do it. But it's not necessary.

Hi Bob, i am full agree with your mindeset. Now i start a new project on line business and i want anderstand only the basic of it. For all the rest i am fully self-sustaining and i am able to handle and take the relative risk.

 

[harryvent]

In my point of view, learn coding is a smart choice. Because you can apply your creativity, ideas in the development project. It increases your working experience and practical knowledge.

 

[healthstatus]

I made the initial post on this thread a few days shy of 4 years ago. Still waiting on the post that says "I didn't listen to you and went out and learned to code and now feel I am top notch and here is my project to prove it...."

Since then I have outsourced five new web projects, two mobile apps, and redesigned and added significant features to my flagship website.

 

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[seanjohn]

In my point of view, learn coding is a smart choice. Because you can apply your creativity, ideas in the development project. It increases your working experience and practical knowledge.

Depends on your objectives. If you already have an idea -- and haven't programmed a line of code in your life, learning a coding language is a waste of time.

6 to 8 months+ to string together a crappy v1.0 without any sort of customer feedback isn't smart.

You NEED to get a v1.0 out quickly to get feedback. I've made huge mistakes before and spent half a year on a project to only find out that no one wanted it.

Instead of creating apps line by line, now there's frameworks that you can get up to speed in a month or two and launch an MVP.
Like Ruby on Rails or Django. There's no need to learn a low-level language anymore, unless you want to be a lead developer.

At the end of the day, for the most part, @healthstatus is right. You can usually create a mockup/prototype quickly and hire someone from Upwork to get your product done.

The only exception, I think, is SaaS products. If you have an idea but don't have the money to pay for a developer or find a technical co-founder, you'll need to learn a least some sort of framework.

 

[seanjohn]

Also, if there's people still on the fence (after 4 years, LOL) -- learn how to use a mockup tool.

I use FlairBuilder (http://www.flairbuilder.com) but most people seem to use Balsamiq (https://balsamiq.com) or even OmniGraffle.
Heck, you could get away with just using Photoshop or GIMP. As long as the germ of the idea is there and is portrayed clearly for the developer.

Maybe @healthstatus has suggestions for tools that he uses.

I don't code anything myself (I could, I just suck at it.)
I design the mockup, pass it to a designer, the designer cleans it up, and then its passed to a coder/developer. From start to finish I have a website done within a week.

 

[Siberia]

In my point of view, learn coding is a smart choice. Because you can apply your creativity, ideas in the development project. It increases your working experience and practical knowledge.

Hi harryvent,
my creativity is focused on global marketing strategy for my new venture online. I have identified deficiencies, aggravation, current needs and dreams of my market. I got one, just one, but it makes all the difference. My priorities are current learn good copy, online marketing, learn the basic know-how to get a view of a good webmaster. I don't want to become an engineer. Currently only learn to converse with the engineers programmers and web platforms. Learn the language and the tools used. I have a budget of time, me and my dead line must comply with. I am doing and study at the same time and I'm sure I'm going to create from scratch a new Fastlane beautiful still. The code I'm going to learn if I will go later. I wouldn't risk to distract me from the real goal for excessive perfectionism. I want to leave early to my new and exciting journey with all the basic tools in tow. I respect your opinion and I will share my findings.

 

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[Deleted0x8687]

I'd like to learn more about writing copy and how to get started. Any advice appreciated but the more details the better

 

[Siberia]

I'd like to learn more about writing copy and how to get started. Any advice appreciated but the more details the better

Hi River Town,
i suggest the "ipnotic writing" by Joe Vitale and others authors.

 

[healthstatus]

I'd like to learn more about writing copy and how to get started. Any advice appreciated

Use the search function of the forum, lots of threads just on that subject.

 

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[#nowhere]

I made the initial post on this thread a few days shy of 4 years ago. Still waiting on the post that says "I didn't listen to you and went out and learned to code and now feel I am top notch and here is my project to prove it...."

Since then I have outsourced five new web projects, two mobile apps, and redesigned and added significant features to my flagship website.

I'm just curious (outsourced coding myself this time). How did your mentioned ventures go?

 

[healthstatus]

I'm just curious (outsourced coding myself this time). How did your mentioned ventures go?

Not sure I understand the question. They were all completed and are operating now.

My point was, 4 years ago I started this thread, MANY argued (and continue to do so) that they had to learn code to move their project forward, or that outsourcing was confusing, hard to do, hard to manage, hard to communicate. I outsourced and got quite a bit done, still haven't heard from anybody who was going to learn to code with a finished marketable project.

 

[theag]

my flagship website

FYI, if you visit the site without the www., you get an "Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page" instead of the site. Should probably fix that..

 

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[#nowhere]

Not sure I understand the question. They were all completed and are operating now.

My point was, 4 years ago I started this thread, MANY argued (and continue to do so) that they had to learn code to move their project forward, or that outsourcing was confusing, hard to do, hard to manage, hard to communicate. I outsourced and got quite a bit done, still haven't heard from anybody who was going to learn to code with a finished marketable project.

Sorry health, didn't explain well enough.

So basically I said:
My opinion also is that outsourcing is the right way to go. As long as I did it too, I have the same opinion. I just wondered if all of your outsourced software projects succeeded, or if you can see that outsourcing for any venture led to failure? (succeeded: cash flow, revenue is growing)

All the best

#n

 

[healthstatus]

I just wondered if all of your outsourced software projects succeeded, or if you can see that outsourcing for any venture led to failure?

No, all of my outsource projects are not successful, if the idea sucks, it doesn't matter if you do yourself or outsource. All my outsource projects get completed (unless I figure out the idea really sucks before we get done). But with outsourcing I can do a number of major products in parallel. More chances for success. I fire outsource team members if they don't perform, but I do a LOT on the front end to make sure I hire correctly in the first place, the only time I can remember taking the low bidder was a couple of times I only had one bid.

visit the site without the www.

hmmm, weird, tested internally and through a couple of external sites (trying to avoid a cache) and got the home page....

 

[InspireHD]

I'll throw this out there and ask. I have an idea for a website, but my limited programming knowledge is nowhere near enough to be able to do what I want to do.

How much does it generally cost to outsource designing a website? I'm not looking for an exact number, but an estimate or range. I have no idea how much it might cost, which might be a reason why I'm not moving forward today. Thanks.

 

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[seanjohn]

I'll throw this out there and ask. I have an idea for a website, but my limited programming knowledge is nowhere near enough to be able to do what I want to do.

How much does it generally cost to outsource designing a website? I'm not looking for an exact number, but an estimate or range. I have no idea how much it might cost, which might be a reason why I'm not moving forward today. Thanks.

That's a very general question. That's like asking, "how much would it cost to fix my car?" without any idea of what you're trying to have done.

What do you want this site to do?

If it's just a brochure website, between $250 and $1,000.
If it's an ecommerce site, between $750 and $5,000.
A more complicated site (A basic SaaS like Freshbooks), starts at $2,000 - $10,000+.

Your #1 priority right now is to build a mockup. You need to get the basics of your ideas down.

Then, what I usually do, is get a designer to make my mockup look like a functional web app, and then drive traffic to a nice looking landing page (tons of wordpress theme out there) with pictures of the mockup and get feedback.

There's no point in dumping thousands into a site that doesn't sell anything worth shit. Spend a couple hundred bucks and get feedback immediately.

 

[InspireHD]

That's a very general question. That's like asking, "how much would it cost to fix my car?" without any idea of what you're trying to have done.

What do you want this site to do?

If it's just a brochure website, between $250 and $1,000.
If it's an ecommerce site, between $750 and $5,000.
A more complicated site (A basic SaaS like Freshbooks), starts at $2,000 - $10,000+.

Your #1 priority right now is to build a mockup. You need to get the basics of your ideas down.

Then, what I usually do, is get a designer to make my mockup look like a functional web app, and then drive traffic to a nice looking landing page (tons of wordpress theme out there) with pictures of the mockup and get feedback.

There's no point in dumping thousands into a site that doesn't sell anything worth shit. Spend a couple hundred bucks and get feedback immediately.

I was just looking for a general range of numbers, which you provided. My idea is a forum-like/social gathering website. It's definitely not e-commerce. I thought of the idea several years ago and it's one of those things that just keeps coming back to me, like it's knocking on my brain saying "let me out!"

I started designing a mockup based on the programming that I already know how to do, but when it comes to integrating everything interacting with each other behind the scenes, I don't know how to do that.

 

[healthstatus]

How much does it generally cost to outsource designing a website? I'm not looking for an exact number, but an estimate or range.

1) is there an open source version of what you want to do? Google "open source dating software", "open source instagram" or open source whatever site that is kind of like what you want to do. If there is something, bingo, you have an MVP with $200 worth of graphics and css work.
2) build a mockup for each screen using the mockup software mentioned in the last couple of pages, or use powerpoint on the left hand side mockup a page, and on the right hand side describe what the page is doing and what every button does.
2a) take your mockup to upwork and get bids on the project, your criteria is that it should run on a LAMP stack, don't put in a budget.
2b) go to the inside and listen to my recording on how to pick a good outsourcer, it was directed at Elance but works with any decent outsource marketplace.
2c) decide if you are going to proceed.

The lowest I have spent on a project is $5 from fiverr, and have 3 projects I have spent north of $40,000. And a several hundred in between.

 

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[seanjohn]

I was just looking for a general range of numbers, which you provided. My idea is a forum-like/social gathering website. It's definitely not e-commerce. I thought of the idea several years ago and it's one of those things that just keeps coming back to me, like it's knocking on my brain saying "let me out!"

I started designing a mockup based on the programming that I already know how to do, but when it comes to integrating everything interacting with each other behind the scenes, I don't know how to do that.

Ah cool. I know what you mean about nagging ideas -- sometimes those "what-if"s keep me up at night

Any good developer will know what to do for the behind the scenes stuff.
Your mockup should show exactly how things work on the front end for what the users see.

Any modern mockup tool will allow you to build a mockup with actions/interactions.
For example, if I click a button, a sidebar pops up, or I click on a submit button, it'll go to a "That you for submitting" page in the mockup.
You can easily learn one of these tools in an afternoon, and have a basic mockup in a day or two. Maybe 5 or 6 hours total.

But like what @healthstatus says -- chances are there are open-source versions similar to what you want to do. Do some research, and get a developer to program in what features you want to add.

 

[healzer]

I find this discussion very fascinating.
There is much true in what is being said.
And I thank you guys for recommending great sources to learn copy writing & sales from.

However, someone still has to create AWESOME software, right?
And if a person loves sales and programming, then we may not call that stupid at all.
But if a person doesn't know a thing about programming, nor about selling -- then I agree that learning programming isn't the best way to earn a quick buck.

 

[Siberia]

I find this discussion very fascinating.
There is much true in what is being said.
And I thank you guys for recommending great sources to learn copy writing & sales from.

However, someone still has to create AWESOME software, right?
And if a person loves sales and programming, then we may not call that stupid at all.
But if a person doesn't know a thing about programming, nor about selling -- then I agree that learning programming isn't the best way to earn a quick buck.

Hi healzer,
I think know the copy and marketing communications are skills 'strategic for any good entrepreneur. I think it is not necessary to know the programming code. www.getbootstrap.com, here is a perfect multi-device code that is updated constantly
and can 'be easily used by anyone who wants it.

 

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[healzer]

Hi healzer,
I think know the copy and marketing communications are skills 'strategic for any good entrepreneur. I think it is not necessary to know the programming code. www.getbootstrap.com, here is a perfect multi-device code that is updated constantly
and can 'be easily used by anyone who wants it.

Programming / coding goes way beyond just web apps.
The desktop software business is a huge market.
Someone once created software such as Photoshop, ScrapeBox, Skype, ... and is now rich.

To program or not to program, it depends on the business model you chose to follow.

Nobody has the right to say that programming is stupid or useless.
It's like saying you shouldn't learn how to read because now we have audiobooks...

 

[Siberia]

you can choose the business model that you want but you have to control it. In the web there are some specific tools for your business specific model. To me only affect certain instruments of control that I can manage independently. Ones that allow me to communicate with my team of programmers in a professional way.

 

[healzer]

you can choose the business model that you want but you have to control it. In the web there are some specific tools for your business specific model. To me only affect certain instruments of control that I can manage independently. Ones that allow me to communicate with my team of programmers in a professional way.

Yea that's right.
At a certain point, programmers have to learn how to delegate and manage people.
Otherwise they just remain mere programmers.
But we all have to start somewhere

 

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[Siberia]

Yea that's right.
At a certain point, programmers have to learn how to delegate and manage people.
Otherwise they just remain mere programmers.
But we all have to start somewhere

yes,
the BUSINESS KING is do

Yea that's right.
At a certain point, programmers have to learn how to delegate and manage people.
Otherwise they just remain mere programmers.
But we all have to start somewhere

KING OF BUSINESS and 'doing unstoppable. Start even if we do not know 100% why 'the magic of making will complete' our action in an unexpected way. I'm creating my online business but do not know everything technically. My team will perform 'what I want.I want to travel very fast and I do not have the time to do the technical.

 

[healzer]

It's cool if you can afford a team & pay people.
I didn't have that luxury. But I also enjoy creating things and selling them.
And once I find something that works & sells well, then I can split it up in multiple parts and delegate.

What kind of products do you develop?

 

[Siberia]

It's cool if you can afford a team & pay people.
I didn't have that luxury. But I also enjoy creating things and selling them.
And once I find something that works & sells well, then I can split it up in multiple parts and delegate.

What kind of products do you develop?

I'm creating a Community 'in my market formed by small and medium-sized enterprises that arises in conflict with the multinationals. I want to bring together the discontent into being and direct it toward an on-line services that are lacking now. information services, sales, marketing very original. see you tomorrow now for me is very late 23,50 Krasnoyarsk local time.

 

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[Siberia]

hey guys, I'm an iOS instructor over at the London App Brewery. I agree, not everyone should become a programmer just as not everyone should become a cook. We all have our own specialisations. But I think everyone should give learning to code a go as you never know, you might end up like me and really loving it. Here's an article I wrote on Medium that goes a bit deeper into this. https://medium.com/london-app-brewery/the-biggest-lies-about-learning-to-code-4c7e202a2c78

Hi jack,
Hello Jack, I read your article and found it interesting. According to you, I who am not a programmer, what can I do to run a business online without learning code. What do you recommend I do and how I do. I'm sure there must be a way to do it. What 's the most' important things I have to do?

 

[healthstatus]

Hello Jack, I read your article and found it interesting. According to you, I who am not a programmer, what can I do to run a business online without learning code. What do you recommend I do and how I do. I'm sure there must be a way to do it. What 's the most' important things I have to do?

You have 28 pages in this thread going over that exact thing, and now you want to someone to spoon feed it to you? How about making an effort, that would be the most important thing to do.