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Paul David

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Man here you are killing it on autopilot and I've emailed 23 Facebook leads so far with ZERO replies lol

I'm getting probably 1-2 leads every day or so for about $3 a lead. What could I be doing wrong?

Have you tried calling them? If you get no answer I'd suggest sending them a text message asking when is the best time to call them to discuss the program they have shown an interest in.

The 13 clients that signed up over the weekend, only 4 so far have filled in the client survey (which is the next step). So it's just a case of pushing them along.
 

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So many threads, so little time. Glad you guys have made this an active one. The constant reminders got me to finally read through it all. I second this emotion.



This exact model has been in the back of my mind for a few years now. So many do pay-per-lead, and that always struck me as having certain hurdles that I didn't care for, so I've always stayed with my agency model. Buuuut this model is something I've always thought to try... at some point. Pay for results. I'm happy to hear someone actually taking this approach and making it work. It really is a no brainer.

My question is more on the fulfillment side. You mentioned having a team. How many worker bees do you have? Do they focus on calls/email/chat or...? How do you structure pay for them? Do you think you'll ultimately replace them with chatbots or will there always be some labor component, a small team? Ultimately, after ad cost and employee expense, what kind of gross profit margin do you see?

It's interesting to me that there's all these folks on this forum that want an "easy money" solution, they'll study copywriting, take courses, etc, and yet this thread isn't more active...

I only have 2 worker bees! They are from the Phillippines and I pay them $250 a month each. Both work full time.

I'll probably always need them as we have to manually book appointments with working with so many different calendars - it's going to be difficult to automate.

Some areas (clients) are doing better than others and we're continually testing new follow ups with leads to increase the conversion rate. I have a target of 15 appointment arrivals per month (180 a year) which would yield around £600 profit per area once I extract ad spend. And would like to have 100-200 areas within 12 months.
 

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Have you tried calling them? If you get no answer I'd suggest sending them a text message asking when is the best time to call them to discuss the program they have shown an interest in.

The 13 clients that signed up over the weekend, only 4 so far have filled in the client survey (which is the next step). So it's just a case of pushing them along.
I haven't called any of them but I'll shoot them a text like you suggested.
 

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Out of 13 clients that signed up last weekend 6 haven’t replied at all yet to me either.
Oh ok. The way you word it makes it seem like you sign all of them on as clients. How many clients do you have currently?
 

Paul David

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Oh ok. The way you word it makes it seem like you sign all of them on as clients. How many clients do you have currently?

Ive got about 23 in total now but some of the 13 I signed up automatically last week haven’t replied yet.

Some of the clients I signed during lockdown haven’t gone live yet for various different reasons on their side.

I’m actually considering trying this model in a different niche, one which doesn’t have some of the follow up issues of my current niche. (Leads for clients side)
 

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Wow.

Thanks for the thread. Very insightful.

You control the whole process until the lead walks in the door. Therefore, when leads are scheduling appointments, they're doing so on your calendar/CRM. You're then manually adding the lead to your client's calendar... How do you know for certain that when you go to input that new booking in your clients calendar (that they've given you access to), they're able to take that appointment and you're not over-booking them? I

'm assuming either A) you're the only way the client gets a booking or B) the industry your working with is so fragmented and commoditized that it doesn't make a difference who gets the booking. Therefore, you're just booking whichever client has the open calendar space. Right?

If in the latter situation, I guess verticals where people tend to shop wouldn't fit the mold because you'd have to cater to one particular client's calendar.

I'm not sure I'm articulating my question well enough. Let me know if I should re-word that.
 

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When we book an appointment and give the address for the client we put our brand name inside their store. For example - Our address is Dominate Dental (inside HGL Dentists & Son), address. We've never had a problem.

We create trust by having a professional looking website with all our clients addresses on there and also a facebook page with lots of fans and regular posts.
Are you saying that when leads see the addresses on your website, they're looking at all your client's addresses - essentially under the impression that all those addresses are your various locations?

So you're literally telling them: "Our address is Dominate Dental (Inside XYZ Dental Office), 123456 Get Money Ln. "

Am I understanding you correctly?
 

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Wow.

Thanks for the thread. Very insightful.

You control the whole process until the lead walks in the door. Therefore, when leads are scheduling appointments, they're doing so on your calendar/CRM. You're then manually adding the lead to your client's calendar... How do you know for certain that when you go to input that new booking in your clients calendar (that they've given you access to), they're able to take that appointment and you're not over-booking them? I

'm assuming either A) you're the only way the client gets a booking or B) the industry your working with is so fragmented and commoditized that it doesn't make a difference who gets the booking. Therefore, you're just booking whichever client has the open calendar space. Right?

If in the latter situation, I guess verticals where people tend to shop wouldn't fit the mold because you'd have to cater to one particular client's calendar.

I'm not sure I'm articulating my question well enough. Let me know if I should re-word that.

We work with one client in each area. So whatever leads we attract in that place we'll send all to the same client. We have access to their calendar so we can see when they have availability which prevents us from double booking.

We check their calendar before booking the client, so if the client wants 4pm today if they already have someone else in then on their calendar we'll offer the lead a time slot thats free. Then book.
 

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Paul David

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Are you saying that when leads see the addresses on your website, they're looking at all your client's addresses - essentially under the impression that all those addresses are your various locations?

So you're literally telling them: "Our address is Dominate Dental (Inside XYZ Dental Office), 123456 Get Money Ln. "

Am I understanding you correctly?

Yes correct.
 

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This exact model has been in the back of my mind for a few years now. So many do pay-per-lead, and that always struck me as having certain hurdles that I didn't care for, so I've always stayed with my agency model. Buuuut this model is something I've always thought to try... at some point. Pay for results. I'm happy to hear someone actually taking this approach and making it work. It really is a no brainer.

Same. I love this model. My hesitation has been mainly because of the upfront risk that I take on, and the amount of control that the client has to cede. You really do need a high level of control in order to make this work. You need to own the landing page, the ad accounts and campaigns, and even the offer. I was under the impression that business owners didn't want to give up that control, because I had presented similar options to my clients and they all said no. Not one said yes. My clients would much rather pay for services than pay for leads.

Thing is, it's mainly because they came to me for services, not for leads. Of course they want results, but they want to pay for the service rather than the result. If they came to me for leads then it would be a different story. It's not actually because there aren't business owners who are willing to pay per lead, it's because the business owners I work with don't want to pay per lead.

I really do love the idea of shifting away risk from apprehensive business owners. Paying ONLY when they make money is an awesome model. It works for lawyers, why wouldn't it work for marketing agencies?

I remember @Andy Black sent me something about a Youtube video ads agency who does this exact same model. Pay for results. The agency fronts the ad spend, makes the creative, controls the ad accounts. They don't control the offer but they do track what they generate. They have input on the offer, though (as any good agency should).

I bet this model can work in other markets, maybe harder markets. I aim to build up to this.
 

Paul David

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Same. I love this model. My hesitation has been mainly because of the upfront risk that I take on, and the amount of control that the client has to cede. You really do need a high level of control in order to make this work. You need to own the landing page, the ad accounts and campaigns, and even the offer. I was under the impression that business owners didn't want to give up that control, because I had presented similar options to my clients and they all said no. Not one said yes. My clients would much rather pay for services than pay for leads.

Thing is, it's mainly because they came to me for services, not for leads. Of course they want results, but they want to pay for the service rather than the result. If they came to me for leads then it would be a different story. It's not actually because there aren't business owners who are willing to pay per lead, it's because the business owners I work with don't want to pay per lead.

I really do love the idea of shifting away risk from apprehensive business owners. Paying ONLY when they make money is an awesome model. It works for lawyers, why wouldn't it work for marketing agencies?

I remember @Andy Black sent me something about a Youtube video ads agency who does this exact same model. Pay for results. The agency fronts the ad spend, makes the creative, controls the ad accounts. They don't control the offer but they do track what they generate. They have input on the offer, though (as any good agency should).

I bet this model can work in other markets, maybe harder markets. I aim to build up to this.

Very true. Although I go a step further than pay per lead, I do pay per show. So I only get paid when the leads show up for their appointment.

I'm actually just about to test pay per booking on a percentage basis for another niche. So very similar to what I'm doing now but we know the value the lead is paying my client beforehand. We just schedule the appointments and make 25-30%. If the clients upsell the leads during the appointment then that's just a bonus for them.
 

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Very true. Although I go a step further than pay per lead, I do pay per show. So I only get paid when the leads show up for their appointment.
That's part of what I really love about this. This is pay per result.

It's an easy differentiator from all the pay per lead people, and all the service providers.

And theoretically, you should be able to command a higher price point for the service. Plus you have greater control, because you're empowered to follow up if someone doesn't show up for their appointment.

There is a particular industry where I'm going to be setting up this model. Or at least very very similar. That's 2 verys. There's some legal issues I have to overcome first, but I hope to be starting a progress threat on this sometime in 2021.
 
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sonny_1080

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We work with one client in each area. So whatever leads we attract in that place we'll send all to the same client. We have access to their calendar so we can see when they have availability which prevents us from double booking.

We check their calendar before booking the client, so if the client wants 4pm today if they already have someone else in then on their calendar we'll offer the lead a time slot thats free. Then book.
What does your lead form look like? Is that where the lead tells you what time he wants?

I was assuming the lead had access to the calendar, but that’s not the case. That would be pretty dope for you if they could though, right? Then you wouldn’t have to manually follow up to book the appointment.

I’m trying to see your process from the leads perspective. It sounds like the client gives you his ideal time, you check the calendar and follow up with a confirmation or an alternative. Have i got it right?
 

sonny_1080

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Same. I love this model. My hesitation has been mainly because of the upfront risk that I take on, and the amount of control that the client has to cede. You really do need a high level of control in order to make this work. You need to own the landing page, the ad accounts and campaigns, and even the offer. I was under the impression that business owners didn't want to give up that control, because I had presented similar options to my clients and they all said no. Not one said yes. My clients would much rather pay for services than pay for leads.

Thing is, it's mainly because they came to me for services, not for leads. Of course they want results, but they want to pay for the service rather than the result. If they came to me for leads then it would be a different story. It's not actually because there aren't business owners who are willing to pay per lead, it's because the business owners I work with don't want to pay per lead.

I really do love the idea of shifting away risk from apprehensive business owners. Paying ONLY when they make money is an awesome model. It works for lawyers, why wouldn't it work for marketing agencies?

I remember @Andy Black sent me something about a Youtube video ads agency who does this exact same model. Pay for results. The agency fronts the ad spend, makes the creative, controls the ad accounts. They don't control the offer but they do track what they generate. They have input on the offer, though (as any good agency should).

I bet this model can work in other markets, maybe harder markets. I aim to build up to this.
That’s an interesting concept. I wonder what makes the difference between business owners who want to pay for the services and business owners that want to pay for results.

Was that YouTube video a Dan Warthrope video by chance?
 

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That’s an interesting concept. I wonder what makes the difference between business owners who want to pay for the services and business owners that want to pay for results.

Was that YouTube video a Dan Warthrope video by chance?

I forget who it was, it's been a while.

The difference may simply be control. I know that I wouldn't pay for a service like Paul's unless I had full control over the offer. That's a done deal for me.

Other business owners want to have much more control over their customer acquisition process as a whole. They want to have the data for themselves and utilize it in decision making. They wanted the customer info and they wanted to have full control over how they service the customer. I worked with a company that didn't play ball with Amazon for this purpose, despite the fact that it probably cost them hundreds of dollars in revenue on the platform.
 

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What does your lead form look like? Is that where the lead tells you what time he wants?

I was assuming the lead had access to the calendar, but that’s not the case. That would be pretty dope for you if they could though, right? Then you wouldn’t have to manually follow up to book the appointment.

I’m trying to see your process from the leads perspective. It sounds like the client gives you his ideal time, you check the calendar and follow up with a confirmation or an alternative. Have i got it right?
We use a chat bots to qualify the leads and then the final question asks them when is the earliest they can come in?

Then we just open up the clients calendar on our side and check their preferred date and give some times that are free. Then we book on that calendar and also our own internal one which is used for follow ups and to send all appointments to a google sheet which we use to invoice the clients weekly.
 

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I forget who it was, it's been a while.

The difference may simply be control. I know that I wouldn't pay for a service like Paul's unless I had full control over the offer. That's a done deal for me.

Other business owners want to have much more control over their customer acquisition process as a whole. They want to have the data for themselves and utilize it in decision making. They wanted the customer info and they wanted to have full control over how they service the customer. I worked with a company that didn't play ball with Amazon for this purpose, despite the fact that it probably cost them hundreds of dollars in revenue on the platform.

Yes I can understand this. The clients I work with have control over the offer. So we'll both agree a price point that firstly I think will work to attract leads and secondly is also profitable for the client.

My current niche works on a flat fee, £60 per appointment arrival. That's because we don't know what the leads pay eventually. However, the new niche is going to be a percentage model because my team are booking a service where we can quote the price upfront.

With this model, clients can also still conduct their own internal advertising as normal, as everything is done under my brand so it doesn't interfere with that.
 

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That’s an interesting concept. I wonder what makes the difference between business owners who want to pay for the services and business owners that want to pay for results.

Was that YouTube video a Dan Warthrope video by chance?
I know Dan Wardrope. He's done very well with pay per lead model.
 

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If this question is too invasive by all means dont answer it.

How do you price your offer? I think dans model is (AOV/3) * 10% which basically gives your client the ability to break even after 3 leads.

Since his mode is pay per lead, how are you pricing pay per show?

I know of another website. Basically what they do is they capture lead information. And somehow they have the ability to monitor if that lead makes a deal with one of their clients. At any point that lead makes a deal with a client, the client pays the website the first months payment.

I don’t know how they monitor if that lead does business with the Client. Probably some kind of contract that keeps the websites access to the CRM.

Do you have a certain formula for how you price your offer to clients?
 

sonny_1080

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I sort of fell into my niche because my wife's friend wanted help with a Facebook campaign. Then I signed up a couple more clients on retainers so from running their campaigns I got to know the pain points, ad spend, cost per lead etc using their money not mine.

I understand lots of people won't have that luxury so I'd suggest running a 3 day campaign as a test. Won't cost much on facebook maybe $60-80 max. We only book appointments for 1 client in each area usually within an 8km radius of their location.

Generally yes we get anywhere from 60-90 leads a month. Then we have to convert them into booked appointments.




The higher the amount the more costly it's going to be in ad spend up front. Ideally you want something between £150-300 and then also that client can be upsold to something higher or just repeat business from them.



It all depends on how much it costs you to attract a lead and book an appointment. For example if it was for dental implants which is high ticket, you'd do some research and ask a dentist out of how many consultations turn into a paying customer? That sort of thing. Then you know you need to get x amount of people to turn up for them to convert. You can run a trial campaign for a few days and see how you get on. You can use facebook ads library to see what ads other dentists are running.




At the moment I'm only running facebook ads. You can get data back in a few days with that. You can decide your own margin. Just need to make sure that you're making money and so is your partner. Otherwise they'll leave.

For facebook ads join facebook agency groups online and ask as many questions as you need. I've probably asked 300 in them over the last 12 months! Alternatively on the best courses I know is from a guy called Ben Alistar. Facebook

I have set this up for other agency owners yes but it's not something I advertise. If I can help on here for free I'm happy to do so.
Very interesting stuff. You're killing it man! Thank you for taking the time to share your success with us.

What do you use to automate your payment processing?
 

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Very interesting stuff. You're killing it man! Thank you for taking the time to share your success with us.

What do you use to automate your payment processing?

I use go cardless or stripe.
 

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If this question is too invasive by all means dont answer it.

How do you price your offer? I think dans model is (AOV/3) * 10% which basically gives your client the ability to break even after 3 leads.

Since his mode is pay per lead, how are you pricing pay per show?

I know of another website. Basically what they do is they capture lead information. And somehow they have the ability to monitor if that lead makes a deal with one of their clients. At any point that lead makes a deal with a client, the client pays the website the first months payment.

I don’t know how they monitor if that lead does business with the Client. Probably some kind of contract that keeps the websites access to the CRM.

Do you have a certain formula for how you price your offer to clients?

I don't use a formula. I research on average whats it going to cost to get the lead/appointment/sale etc and what vaule that's worth to the client and price profitably for both sides.
 

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The UK will enter another lockdown tomorrow for at least 4 weeks, that means all my clients will close.

Any appointments that we've set during this period can no longer be performed and we won't be paid. That will take us into December and if my clients are allowed to re-open and it's a big if it's likely they'll be swamped so won't want any new appointments until next year now.

Income back down to £0 a month.

I have a backup niche which I'm going to start this week. One that can continue during lockdown.
 

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You mean England rather than UK?

Scotland has the tier thingy and Wales ends midnight on Sunday.

So could you get clients in Wales and/or Scotland depending upon whereabouts in Scotland?

Good idea in having other niches though.

Construction and I assume - not checked - home Improvements - are allowed to carry on as those jobs can't be conducted from home.

Can you transition to some of those companies?

Dan
 

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You mean England rather than UK?

Scotland has the tier thingy and Wales ends midnight on Sunday.

So could you get clients in Wales and/or Scotland depending upon whereabouts in Scotland?

Good idea in having other niches though.

Construction and I assume - not checked - home Improvements - are allowed to carry on as those jobs can't be conducted from home.

Can you transition to some of those companies?

Dan

Sorry England not UK. Force of habit!

Yes, I could find more clients in Wales or Scotland.

New niche is on home improvement side, should have it ready to go in a few days. Then I just need to sign some clients which hopefully won't take long.
 

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I've been working as a PPC Specialist over the last year for an agency and this has my head spinning!

I know you didn't mention price - but to make it worthwhile, I'm assuming you charge 2-3x the original CPL?
 

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I've been working as a PPC Specialist over the last year for an agency and this has my head spinning!

I know you didn't mention price - but to make it worthwhile, I'm assuming you charge 2-3x the original CPL?

I do pay per show so I just manually came up with pricing offer.
 

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