HOT TOPIC Interested in Digital Marketing? Why not try pay per appointment/show model? Ask anything you need!

[door123]

I do pay per show so I just manually came up with pricing offer.

Hi
Love this thread, makes so much sense. I have 3 questions.
Where did you get the local owners emails (client side leads)? scrape from their business websites?
What type of offers are you running? " roofers free roof inspection?" Are you running the client's offers to a cold audience or using video ads then targeting those who watched the video with the client's offer?

 

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[Paul David]

Hi
Love this thread, makes so much sense. I have 3 questions.
Where did you get the local owners emails (client side leads)? scrape from their business websites?
What type of offers are you running? " roofers free roof inspection?" Are you running the client's offers to a cold audience or using video ads then targeting those who watched the video with the client's offer?

I use websites like D7 Leadfinder for email addresses of businesses in my niche and send cold email. However I've found facebooks ads works better.

I run the clients offers to a combination of cold audience and Lookalike audience using data such as video views and the current leads details we already have.

 

[Paul David]

UPDATE

I started outreach this week for the new niche I'm targeting with this system that's allowed to work in the UK during this current lockdown.

I've created my own brand and joined several facebook pages related to this niche. I posted a link to a video on my brands page in one of those niches and it got 300 views in 2 hours. I then created a lookalike audience on facebook from those views which gave me an audience size of 370,000 people.

I started running ads two days ago to try and sign up clients, I'm getting leads for £0.62 each, I've signed up 5 clients already and have my calendar booked up with calls every 30 mins from 10am today (5 mins time) to 7pm. Same for tomorrow. I think there's 36 booked calls on my calendar!

Let's see what the next two days brings!

 

[Tiago]

Keep up the good work!

 

[Ronak]

Paul, I've been playing with this model as a side hustle.

Figured out a good pay per result offer that would resonate, reached out to my network and got my first client.

Launched first campaign, got leads, and proceeded to spend nearly $2k with no conversions. That client referred me to 2 others.

One of those wanted to put me through the wringer, asking me dozens of questions. I started to answer, then paused, deleted what I wrote, and said, essentially-- "good questions..my answer to all of them is, you don't get results, you don't pay, and I don't get paid. Our interests are aligned here. I'm very selective about clients since I am at risk for ad spend, so if you want to go with someone else who are more "slick" with their answers, please proceed without hesitation." A few days later, they came back wanting to move forward.

I was hesitant because the 1st client was costing me money. Moved forward anyway. Already got them dozens of leads, 5 figures in revenue, and my cut is 4 figures. This is within the first week of launching.

To anyone on the sidelines, just fricking do it. You'll figure it out as you go. I'm so glad I didn't stop after the first loss.

Since this is a side hustle, I'm struggling now with how far to take it, its so tempting to scale it up, but it would take away from my main venture. Good problem to have. I'm going to look into high-level.

I only have 2 worker bees! They are from the Phillippines and I pay them $250 a month each. Both work full time.

I'll probably always need them as we have to manually book appointments with working with so many different calendars - it's going to be difficult to automate.

How do you find qualify, and train them?

 

[Paul David]

Paul, I've been playing with this model as a side hustle.

Figured out a good pay per result offer that would resonate, reached out to my network and got my first client.

Launched first campaign, got leads, and proceeded to spend nearly $2k with no conversions. That client referred me to 2 others.

One of those wanted to put me through the wringer, asking me dozens of questions. I started to answer, then paused, deleted what I wrote, and said, essentially-- "good questions..my answer to all of them is, you don't get results, you don't pay, and I don't get paid. Our interests are aligned here. I'm very selective about clients since I am at risk for ad spend, so if you want to go with someone else who are more "slick" with their answers, please proceed without hesitation." A few days later, they came back wanting to move forward.

I was hesitant because the 1st client was costing me money. Moved forward anyway. Already got them dozens of leads, 5 figures in revenue, and my cut is 4 figures. This is within the first week of launching.

To anyone on the sidelines, just fricking do it. You'll figure it out as you go. I'm so glad I didn't stop after the first loss.

Since this is a side hustle, I'm struggling now with how far to take it, its so tempting to scale it up, but it would take away from my main venture. Good problem to have. I'm going to look into high-level.



How do you find qualify, and train them?

That's amazing well done!

If you're going to try High Level let me know and I'll send you my affiliate link, I'll then help you set anything up on there.

For the VA's I find them on onlinejobs.ph and first thing i do is get them to send me a voice note of them reading a script to instantly disqualify any who don't speak perfect english. Then I just train them over time with guides and watching over them, giving advice etc.

 

[killa_graham]

Paul, I've been playing with this model as a side hustle.

Figured out a good pay per result offer that would resonate, reached out to my network and got my first client.

Launched first campaign, got leads, and proceeded to spend nearly $2k with no conversions. That client referred me to 2 others.

One of those wanted to put me through the wringer, asking me dozens of questions. I started to answer, then paused, deleted what I wrote, and said, essentially-- "good questions..my answer to all of them is, you don't get results, you don't pay, and I don't get paid. Our interests are aligned here. I'm very selective about clients since I am at risk for ad spend, so if you want to go with someone else who are more "slick" with their answers, please proceed without hesitation." A few days later, they came back wanting to move forward.

I was hesitant because the 1st client was costing me money. Moved forward anyway. Already got them dozens of leads, 5 figures in revenue, and my cut is 4 figures. This is within the first week of launching.

To anyone on the sidelines, just fricking do it. You'll figure it out as you go. I'm so glad I didn't stop after the first loss.

Since this is a side hustle, I'm struggling now with how far to take it, its so tempting to scale it up, but it would take away from my main venture. Good problem to have. I'm going to look into high-level.



How do you find qualify, and train them?

Amazing progress @Ronak!

Is client #2 in a different niche than client #1?

If they're in the same niche and you're running the same offer I wonder why results were so different.

 

[Ronak]

Amazing progress @Ronak!

Is client #2 in a different niche than client #1?

If they're in the same niche and you're running the same offer I wonder why results were so different.

Same niche, different service (which isn't being offered by the original client). The offer I was referring to earlier was my offer to the client, not the client's offer to customers.

In any case, results can definitely vary, even if everything is the same. I haven't taken over the follow up process either, so that can also make a big difference from client to client.

 

[door123]

r that would resonate, reached out to my network and got my first client.

Launched first campaign, got leads, and proceeded to spend nearly $2k with no conversions. That client referred me to 2 others.

One of those wanted to put me through the wringer, asking me dozens of questions. I started to answer, then paused, deleted what I wrote, and said, essentially-- "good questions..my answer to all of them is, you don't get results, you don't pay, and I don't get paid. Our interests are aligned here. I'm very selective about clients since I am at risk for ad spend, so if you want to go with someone else who are more "slick" with their answers, please proceed without hesitation." A few days later, they came back wanting to move forward.

I was hesitant because the 1st client was costing me money. Moved forward anyway. Already got them dozens of leads, 5 figures in revenue, and my cut is 4 figures. This is within the first w

UPDATE

I started outreach this week for the new niche I'm targeting with this system that's allowed to work in the UK during this current lockdown.

I've created my own brand and joined several facebook pages related to this niche. I posted a link to a video on my brands page in one of those niches and it got 300 views in 2 hours. I then created a lookalike audience on facebook from those views which gave me an audience size of 370,000 people.

I started running ads two days ago to try and sign up clients, I'm getting leads for £0.62 each, I've signed up 5 clients already and have my calendar booked up with calls every 30 mins from 10am today (5 mins time) to 7pm. Same for tomorrow. I think there's 36 booked calls on my calendar!

Let's see what the next two days brings!

How were you able to post the promo video to the client's group without being banned for self-promotion? 99% of groups will remove you from their group if you self-promote

 

[Paul David]

How were you able to post the promo video to the client's group without being banned for self-promotion? 99% of groups will remove you from their group if you self-promote

I posted a video showing people in the group something that will help them.

I did the same thing in another group in the USA and you’re right it was took down straight away.

 

[Paul David]

So the weekend has more or less ended and I’ve got 19 clients signed up.

I’ve got 39 booked calls still to go including 16 alone tomorrow. The advert is currently at £0.32 per lead which is unbelievable.

Ive had to pause It now whilst I get caught up and get all the new clients onboarded.

Let the fun begin....

 

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[Ronak]

That's amazing well done!

If you're going to try High Level let me know and I'll send you my affiliate link, I'll then help you set anything up on there.

For the VA's I find them on onlinejobs.ph and first thing i do is get them to send me a voice note of them reading a script to instantly disqualify any who don't speak perfect english. Then I just train them over time with guides and watching over them, giving advice etc.

Grabbed your link from earlier posts, thanks.

Does the platform allow you to manage client FB ad accounts directly, or do you use another platform for that?

 

[Paul David]

Grabbed your link from earlier posts, thanks.

Does the platform allow you to manage client FB ad accounts directly, or do you use another platform for that?

you can pull data in from ads when you link accounts but you can’t actually manage them directly. You need to go back into ads manager for that

 

[Thiago Machado]

@Paul David

A family friend has a dental clinic in Brazil and I told him about your model.

I just set up some call only campaigns on Google Adwords for him and created ad groups based on the type of services they offer (braces, surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc).

I figured this could be a cheap way for me to test this out and to help a friend!

Quick question...

1. What do you do when search volume is low? The keywords based on his location receive between 10 - 100 searches per month and I'm bidding on about 50 kw right now.

2. In case this is way too low of a search volume to work, do you do any display or social ads for these types of niches? I figured I'd start with a search & call only campaign because they have a high intent to book a call. Just wondering how I'd make display work for a dental clinic if his first approach doesn't work so well. (There's a bunch of laws that won't allow you to do things like "free consultation" in Brazil).

Right now we're focusing on generating calls since the culture down there is still to pick up a phone and schedule a consulttion. But I'll definitely be testing it against a form soon too.

Thanks for creating this thread. I'm excited to try this out and push for a pay per show if the data seem promising!

 

[Paul David]

@Paul David

A family friend has a dental clinic in Brazil and I told him about your model.

I just set up some call only campaigns on Google Adwords for him and created ad groups based on the type of services they offer (braces, surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc).

I figured this could be a cheap way for me to test this out and to help a friend!

Quick question...

1. What do you do when search volume is low? The keywords based on his location receive between 10 - 100 searches per month and I'm bidding on about 50 kw right now.

2. In case this is way too low of a search volume to work, do you do any display or social ads for these types of niches? I figured I'd start with a search & call only campaign because they have a high intent to book a call. Just wondering how I'd make display work for a dental clinic if his first approach doesn't work so well. (There's a bunch of laws that won't allow you to do things like "free consultation" in Brazil).

Right now we're focusing on generating calls since the culture down there is still to pick up a phone and schedule a consulttion. But I'll definitely be testing it against a form soon too.

Thanks for creating this thread. I'm excited to try this out and push for a pay per show if the data seem promising!

I haven't used Google Ads with this model as yet, only Facebook ads sorry!

 

[Blackman]

@Paul David

A family friend has a dental clinic in Brazil and I told him about your model.

I just set up some call only campaigns on Google Adwords for him and created ad groups based on the type of services they offer (braces, surgery, cosmetic dentistry, etc).

I figured this could be a cheap way for me to test this out and to help a friend!

Quick question...

1. What do you do when search volume is low? The keywords based on his location receive between 10 - 100 searches per month and I'm bidding on about 50 kw right now.

2. In case this is way too low of a search volume to work, do you do any display or social ads for these types of niches? I figured I'd start with a search & call only campaign because they have a high intent to book a call. Just wondering how I'd make display work for a dental clinic if his first approach doesn't work so well. (There's a bunch of laws that won't allow you to do things like "free consultation" in Brazil).

Right now we're focusing on generating calls since the culture down there is still to pick up a phone and schedule a consulttion. But I'll definitely be testing it against a form soon too.

Thanks for creating this thread. I'm excited to try this out and push for a pay per show if the data seem promising!

I don't use Facebook Ads or Paul's strategy for attracting clients, but I do Google Ads instead, so I think I can help you out with the above questions.

1. Generally speaking, with lead gen campaigns on Google Ads you're heavily dependant on the location's search volume, so if the numbers are really low and it doesn't make sense to advertise, then there's not much else you can do.

The only option is to target multiple areas, but making sure that customers from those areas would be willing to travel to the clinic. Most businesses don't need hundreds of leads every month, so even if you can get 10-20-30 leads/month, then a lot of times it's good enough, as long as you can work out a reasonable monthly fee for your services that works for both the client and yourself.

2. I work with search ads only, because as you said yourself, the commercial intent is very high, so I haven't bothered with any other ad types. As long as you have the campaign set up correctly, these leads are really high quality and they convert well.

Don't want to hi-jack Paul's thread, so if you want to do more reading on local lead gen via Google Ads, then you might want to check out this thread >> HOT TOPIC - Lead Gen for Local Service Businesses

 

[G Man]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answers so far! Could I ask for some further advice? I'm very new to Facebook Ads and struggling generally I must admit.

When evaluating a niche to understand how many leads you may be able to deliver to a client in a month, what specific actions do you take using Facebook Ads to do so?

Let's say I'm evaluating the niche of "tree surgeons" in "glasgow" to see how many potential leads I could supply.

My plan would be;
Step 1 - I'd need to advertise to potential leads
Step 2 - See how many people click my ad and show real buying intent via a form or chat bot

I'm stuck at step 1, I find Facebook ads very unintuitive and jargon heavy. I don't want to show my ad to every adult in "glasgow", but there's nowhere I can see to specify that I want my ad shown to people talking about tree surgery (in groups/pages/chat etc).

How do I narrow the targetting as much as possible? How do you define the audience to show your ad to? Hope that makes sense


Sincere thanks!

 

[Ronak]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answers so far! Could I ask for some further advice? I'm very new to Facebook Ads and struggling generally I must admit.

When evaluating a niche to understand how many leads you may be able to deliver to a client in a month, what specific actions do you take using Facebook Ads to do so?

Let's say I'm evaluating the niche of "tree surgeons" in "glasgow" to see how many potential leads I could supply.

My plan would be;
Step 1 - I'd need to advertise to potential leads
Step 2 - See how many people click my ad and show real buying intent via a form or chat bot

I'm stuck at step 1, I find Facebook ads very unintuitive and jargon heavy. I don't want to show my ad to every adult in "glasgow", but there's nowhere I can see to specify that I want my ad shown to people talking about tree surgery (in groups/pages/chat etc).

How do I narrow the targetting as much as possible? How do you define the audience to show your ad to? Hope that makes sense


Sincere thanks!

There's 3 levels on facebook--

1) Campaign-- this is your overall objective-- do you want a lead, conversion, etc?
2) Ad set-- this is your targeting--who will see the ad?
3) Ad- this will be your actual ad that shows on facebook

Your question pertains to the Ad set-- you can choose to target based on location, interest, demographics etc. In your case, it's probably homeowners in glasgow within x miles of the business location. On the right, FB will give you an estimate of audience size.

The bigger issue-- it doesn't really matter. Those are estimates and you have no way of knowing except to just do it.

So just do it!

If the client asks how many they can expect, be honest and say no one can really tell, it's all just estimates, but you only pay per appointment, so no risk to you!

Start with 1 campaign, 1 ad set, and 1-2 ads.
Then add in more ad sets with different interest targeting and copy the original ads over.

 

[G Man]

Thanks for your input Ronak, there's a lot of useful stuff in there. Facebook is an unusual beast i feel.

I've been looking into Pauls system for the last few weeks and I feel I want to replicate it as closely as possible.

In terms of choosing and evaluating a niche, I need to really have proof that I can get a number of leads per month for any client *before* I go looking for clients, sign them up, onboard them, negotiate offer, share access to calenders etc. I don't want to do all that and then find out I can't supply any leads. I definitely don't feel I can say to clients that I have no idea how many leads I can get them. I feel I need to prove the market first, preferably at as low a cost as possible

So I'm staying focused on this part right now and hoping Paul will still find time to chime in.

 

[Ronak]

Thanks for your input Ronak, there's a lot of useful stuff in there. Facebook is an unusual beast i feel.

I've been looking into Pauls system for the last few weeks and I feel I want to replicate it as closely as possible.

In terms of choosing and evaluating a niche, I need to really have proof that I can get a number of leads per month for any client *before* I go looking for clients, sign them up, onboard them, negotiate offer, share access to calenders etc. I don't want to do all that and then find out I can't supply any leads. I definitely don't feel I can say to clients that I have no idea how many leads I can get them. I feel I need to prove the market first, preferably at as low a cost as possible

So I'm staying focused on this part right now and hoping Paul will still find time to chime in.

How much of a budget do you have to test and get proof of concept?

 

[Thiago Machado]

@Blackman thanks for the response!

Just for some updates:

I created a call only campaign.

Ad group themes were broken down into:

• Dentists
• Orthodontists
• Braces
• Transparent / clear braces
• Implants
• Etc (saying these off the top of my head)

The results:

• 36 calls
• Average CPC = $0,91
• 1 lead for braces with the AOV of $1920 for the lifetime of the treatment

Problems:

• A lot of calls were people looking for specific clinics (adding negative keywords on those)
• This is a new clinic and it seems like when people choose dentists they rely a lot on branding and word of mouth.

@Blackman do you ever do any Display Ads to build up awareness within a specific range of miles around the clinic?

Also, @Paul David - she said her best patients are the ones who want braces. The reason is because this gives her monthly recurring revenue. I was thinking of creating a FB ad within a 5mi radius of her clinic of her explaining everything about braces (video).

At my job I've only used Facebook for remarketing. So right now I'm just looking for some prospecting strategies to try to get her these braces leads.

 

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[Blackman]

@Thiago Machado

No, I don't do any display ads - search ads only.

Dentistry is an expensive niche, so it is natural for people to do more research and look for well-known branded companies. As long as your client has all the necessary certifications/equipment/business premises, then I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to get leads for them.

As for getting loads of calls and no bookings, you need to look into your targeting and see what search terms are triggering your ads. Then neg all the irrelevant stuff and make sure your ads/keywords tie up well with your landing page.

 

[Paul David]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your answers so far! Could I ask for some further advice? I'm very new to Facebook Ads and struggling generally I must admit.

When evaluating a niche to understand how many leads you may be able to deliver to a client in a month, what specific actions do you take using Facebook Ads to do so?

Let's say I'm evaluating the niche of "tree surgeons" in "glasgow" to see how many potential leads I could supply.

My plan would be;
Step 1 - I'd need to advertise to potential leads
Step 2 - See how many people click my ad and show real buying intent via a form or chat bot

I'm stuck at step 1, I find Facebook ads very unintuitive and jargon heavy. I don't want to show my ad to every adult in "glasgow", but there's nowhere I can see to specify that I want my ad shown to people talking about tree surgery (in groups/pages/chat etc).

How do I narrow the targetting as much as possible? How do you define the audience to show your ad to? Hope that makes sense


Sincere thanks!

Sorry for my late reply I’ve been very busy this week with my new niche.

I was helped with my first niche because I’d already run ads on retainer model. So I’d used my clients money to see how much it was costing for leads etc.

In my new niche I’d never run an advert before until last week. So I had no idea how it was going to go and I was using my money to validate. The good thing with Facebook ads is that you can get feedback quite quickly.

As my clients are paying me commission it doesn’t matter to them if this fails, it hasn’t cost them nothing so don’t worry about that.

So my far in my new nice Ive got commission of around £1850 profit since last Thursday. That’s after ad spend. So not a bad start.

Unless a niche is very unique I wouldn’t even bother using Facebook interests targetting at first just call out your audience in your advert.
For example Attention Denver Homeowners or whatever.

 

[Paul David]

Thanks for your input Ronak, there's a lot of useful stuff in there. Facebook is an unusual beast i feel.

I've been looking into Pauls system for the last few weeks and I feel I want to replicate it as closely as possible.

In terms of choosing and evaluating a niche, I need to really have proof that I can get a number of leads per month for any client *before* I go looking for clients, sign them up, onboard them, negotiate offer, share access to calenders etc. I don't want to do all that and then find out I can't supply any leads. I definitely don't feel I can say to clients that I have no idea how many leads I can get them. I feel I need to prove the market first, preferably at as low a cost as possible

So I'm staying focused on this part right now and hoping Paul will still find time to chime in.

Worst case scenario you can spend $10 a day in ads and offer to run them for free to one company to give you an idea of how many leads you can get

Remember though it’s not just about getting leads it’s following up with them and converting. In my niche we handle everything, my clients or I call them partners get a message in their phone app that we supply to tell them we’ve booked a new job and all they have to do is confirm or reschedule with the client.

Yesterday we had 200 leads from 10 partners to deal with!

 

[Paul David]

@Blackman thanks for the response!

Just for some updates:

I created a call only campaign.

Ad group themes were broken down into:

• Dentists
• Orthodontists
• Braces
• Transparent / clear braces
• Implants
• Etc (saying these off the top of my head)

The results:

• 36 calls
• Average CPC = $0,91
• 1 lead for braces with the AOV of $1920 for the lifetime of the treatment

Problems:

• A lot of calls were people looking for specific clinics (adding negative keywords on those)
• This is a new clinic and it seems like when people choose dentists they rely a lot on branding and word of mouth.

@Blackman do you ever do any Display Ads to build up awareness within a specific range of miles around the clinic?

Also, @Paul David - she said her best patients are the ones who want braces. The reason is because this gives her monthly recurring revenue. I was thinking of creating a FB ad within a 5mi radius of her clinic of her explaining everything about braces (video).

At my job I've only used Facebook for remarketing. So right now I'm just looking for some prospecting strategies to try to get her these braces leads.

I know lots of marketers doing very well running ads for dentists. Braces works well.

You can find out from the dentist how far people travel to them generally for braces and run an advert. Remember with Facebook people aren’t in buying mode so you need to come up with an offer to stop them scrolling down. For example 30% Braces. Or $1000 off etc. Not just information about them.

 

[killa_graham]

Worst case scenario you can spend $10 a day in ads and offer to run them for free to one company to give you an idea of how many leads you can get

Remember though it’s not just about getting leads it’s following up with them and converting. In my niche we handle everything, my clients or I call them partners get a message in their phone app that we supply to tell them we’ve booked a new job and all they have to do is confirm or reschedule with the client.

Yesterday we had 200 leads from 10 partners to deal with!

@Paul David you mentioned your staff consists of two VA's that handle lead follow up. I'm at the point where I need some help in following up with leads and would love to hear more about the hiring and training process you went through.

Could you share a bit about how you came to find these folks, such as where you looked, any screening processes, onboarding to your team, etc?

 

[Paul David]

@Paul David you mentioned your staff consists of two VA's that handle lead follow up. I'm at the point where I need some help in following up with leads and would love to hear more about the hiring and training process you went through.

Could you share a bit about how you came to find these folks, such as where you looked, any screening processes, onboarding to your team, etc?

I initially went to onlinejobs.ph and hired from there.

Usually the first thing I do is get them to send me a voice recording.

If they have a good phone voice I can show them how to do everything else. Mostly its hands on training about how to use our CRM, and then questions our leads ask etc.

 

[killa_graham]

I initially went to onlinejobs.ph and hired from there.

Usually the first thing I do is get them to send me a voice recording.

If they have a good phone voice I can show them how to do everything else. Mostly its hands on training about how to use our CRM, and then questions our leads ask etc.

Thanks @Paul David. Do you have them work US hours if they're in the Philippines?

How are things going with your new niche during the lockdown?

 

[Paul David]

Thanks @Paul David. Do you have them work US hours if they're in the Philippines?

How are things going with your new niche during the lockdown?

They work UK hours for me yes.

 

[Paul David]

Update:

The new niche was working great, booked £14000 worth of jobs in 9 days of which I get 30%.

Then as per usual with the last 20 years of my business career things have gone to shit.

Facebook in order to comply with new privacy laws in Europe have stopped the way their messenger API works with users from those countries. So my ads that were running and converting well where stopped on Saturday morning. Without even sending me a notification.

I'm no longer allowed to run messenger ads with the objective of conversations. This must be replaced with Traffic ads and link clicks as the objective. Tested this yesterday and got 0 leads for 12 clients. Not only that my messenger bots which were booking jobs on autopilot are no longer working.

Unfortunately as I'm not in control, Facebook is (MJ talks about control in his book) and there's not much I can do about it. Still testing other ads but to see I'm angry, frustrated and down right pissed off at the moment is an understatement.

It's cold, miserable and wet here in the UK as usual this time of year which I despise anyway so I'm not in the happiest places. Always seems to be one step forward and two steps back.

I won't feel like this tomorrow but today i feel like giving up. Getting a job in a supermarket or anywhere for that matter turn up do the work, get paid and go home and forget about it.