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Ronak

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Update:

The new niche was working great, booked £14000 worth of jobs in 9 days of which I get 30%.

Then as per usual with the last 20 years of my business career things have gone to shit.

Facebook in order to comply with new privacy laws in Europe have stopped the way their messenger API works with users from those countries. So my ads that were running and converting well where stopped on Saturday morning. Without even sending me a notification.

I'm no longer allowed to run messenger ads with the objective of conversations. This must be replaced with Traffic ads and link clicks as the objective. Tested this yesterday and got 0 leads for 12 clients. Not only that my messenger bots which were booking jobs on autopilot are no longer working.

Unfortunately as I'm not in control, Facebook is (MJ talks about control in his book) and there's not much I can do about it. Still testing other ads but to see I'm angry, frustrated and down right pissed off at the moment is an understatement.

It's cold, miserable and wet here in the UK as usual this time of year which I despise anyway so I'm not in the happiest places. Always seems to be one step forward and two steps back.

I won't feel like this tomorrow but today i feel like giving up. Getting a job in a supermarket or anywhere for that matter turn up do the work, get paid and go home and forget about it.

Ah, Facebook, the ole devil.

Is messenger disabled for your account completely, or can you still run them for non EU countries?

BTW, that's phenomenal that you got 30%, was that an easy sell?
 

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Paul David

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Ah, Facebook, the ole devil.

Is messenger disabled for your account completely, or can you still run them for non EU countries?

BTW, that's phenomenal that you got 30%, was that an easy sell?

No I can run Traffic ads and send them to messenger but none of the automation is working correctly (ie many chat) and the ads are performing very poorly.

Plus now with these new rules you can't even see ad performance for messenger, like how many chats have started etc.

Yes 30% was pretty easy sell to be honest.
 

Ronak

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No I can run Traffic ads and send them to messenger but none of the automation is working correctly (ie many chat) and the ads are performing very poorly.

Plus now with these new rules you can't even see ad performance for messenger, like how many chats have started etc.

Yes 30% was pretty easy sell to be honest.

I wonder if that change affects US accounts? I still see the option for conversations objective. How about going after non eu?
 

Paul David

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I wonder if that change affects US accounts? I still see the option for conversations objective. How about going after non eu?

Yes its fine for US. Just Europe thats affected.

US clients are a possibility however it would cost more to run ads over there and I just haven't got the cash flow at the moment to subside paying for ads myself.

Depending on how this situation goes I might have to go back to retainer model and hire a closer on commission.
 

G Man

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I won't feel like this tomorrow but today i feel like giving up. Getting a job in a supermarket or anywhere for that matter turn up do the work, get paid and go home and forget about it.
Speaking as someone currently working in a supermarket I can assure you that you're not missing anything. All it takes is a few a-holes around you, rude public, idiot managers, shift work or a low hours contract and you'll be fantasising about being your own boss again, lord knows I daydream about it most of my shifts.

Keep a cool head mate, bottom line is if this has gone wrong it's 0% your fault. You built a working system and as such you will be able to build another. It's only human to feel knocked down but you don't seem to be a person to stay down. I'm sure you'll bounce back!
 

Paul David

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Ok so today is a new day.

Time to climb over this hurdle. I've created lead ads now and just waiting for them to go live. Then see how these ads compare to the messenger ones before.

As for giving up and working for someone else, I read this post earlier and it re-emphasizes why I'll keep moving forward.

 

Ronak

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Ok so today is a new day.

Time to climb over this hurdle. I've created lead ads now and just waiting for them to go live. Then see how these ads compare to the messenger ones before.

As for giving up and working for someone else, I read this post earlier and it re-emphasizes why I'll keep moving forward.


The power of a brand new day. It's amazing how that works sometimes, and a great approach to life, which inevitably will have its ups and downs.

Go get em!
 

Paul David

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Just a little update, since facebook messenger is now essentially useless in Europe for running ads. I've now set up a chat bot (with live chat option) as a landing page which is working fine.

It's not as ideal as messenger was, as when a user has left the page we can no longer message them but its a working solution nonetheless.
 
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Paul David

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Any progress Paul?

Well yes and no really.

The last couple of weeks have exposed some major floors in my model -

1) My partners sometimes taking a couple of days to confirm jobs which is upsetting clients and we're having to chase up

2) Some partner payments getting declined even though they've been paid already, again meaning I'm having to chase up

3) Cash flow issues - because I'm paying for ads on my credit card and getting paid when the jobs are done it's having a negative effect on my cash flow. Some clients don't book jobs until mid february or even March meaning I'm waiting until after that to get paid. I've now maxed out my credit card and I can't run ads until I clear it and I can't clear it because I need to wait another 1-2 weeks for payments from my partners.

4) Complaints by clients about my partners work. Or complaints the partner hasn't turned up at all. As the ads are run under my brand people are complaining to me about jobs that aren't done right. Meaning I'm have to mediate. I had so many complaints from one partner I had to turn reviews off on my facebook page to protect my brand.

5) Cancellations. Since Jan 4th there are £6500 worth of job cancellations, mainly because of covid related issues. I would have got 30% of that.

6) Scaling. The reason why I've maxed out my credit card is because I added some more partners this month and my spend has increased. Unless you have a very high limit credit card or cash reserves it's difficult to scale this model. (Unless you charge a set up fee to cover the Ad spend for first month)

7) I had one partner who we booked lots of work for, unfortunately he was the one who we got the most complaints from by clients. Just after Christmas his bank payments were stopped and he wouldn't answer my calls for 3 weeks.

Eventually I got through and was told don't worry the money is safe, they will pay me etc. In the end I had to physically threaten to drive to this guys house and get the money myself and also leave 50 negative reviews on his company social media pages. This guy got his partner to call me, very apologetic but said he's only willing to pay what was outstanding for jobs done. There was another £1100 of future jobs that I was entitled to 30% commission from that they refused to do.

In the end I got the money from the jobs completed and left them negative reviews. I had to cancel the jobs with the customers for future jobs even though the agreement when they signed up was that they can stop at any time but they must complete any future jobs they'd already confirmed.

------------

After these issues I've actually decided to completely move away from the pay per lead/appointment model. On paper it seems like a great model but it doesn't take into consideration the behaviour from human beings. Some of which I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.

I've now moved onto a different model, selling Saas (which I was using for the pay per job model) to partners so they can run it themselves rather than paying me commission. Monthly subscription paid up front. Will also be setting it up for different niches.
 

G Man

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wow Paul, you've had quite the rollercoaster ride on this, thanks for the updates and I've no doubt you'll find a way through.
 

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Paul David

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wow Paul, you've had quite the rollercoaster ride on this, thanks for the updates and I've no doubt you'll find a way through.

Thanks, I'm excited for the Saas model going forward. It certainly solves all 7 issues I highlighted earlier! Plus there's literally and unlimited ceiling for scaling.
 

Ronak

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Yes, chasing payments isn't fun-- I'm still waiting on $4000 from client for work done in November, while they want to add more projects. No more work until past payments are paid.

I still like the model, just needs a few tweaks:

1) Upfront payments--it takes some of the appeal away of "no upfront spend", but you can mitigate with a money back guarantee.

2) Choose your clients-- they must have a robust sales/followup process and in general be good with customers.

3) Set expectations-- if they've never done advertising before, they will not realize that the majority of leads will not convert, and you only need a small percentage to make a great return. If they are comparing your leads to referrals, that's not going to go well for anyone.

4) Larger clients-- they have more sophistication and are used to paying for services/value.
Currently working on this myself.

Saas is not a bad option, plus it's more scalable, though less cash flow upfront.
 

Paul David

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Yes, chasing payments isn't fun-- I'm still waiting on $4000 from client for work done in November, while they want to add more projects. No more work until past payments are paid.

I still like the model, just needs a few tweaks:

1) Upfront payments--it takes some of the appeal away of "no upfront spend", but you can mitigate with a money back guarantee.

2) Choose your clients-- they must have a robust sales/followup process and in general be good with customers.

3) Set expectations-- if they've never done advertising before, they will not realize that the majority of leads will not convert, and you only need a small percentage to make a great return. If they are comparing your leads to referrals, that's not going to go well for anyone.

4) Larger clients-- they have more sophistication and are used to paying for services/value.
Currently working on this myself.

Saas is not a bad option, plus it's more scalable, though less cash flow upfront.

I'd certainly also suggest never to create your own brand and run ads from there then sending the work to other companies like I did. Had another customer today complaining, they've left two comments on my facebook page, they've just called me ranting and raving. My partner that I referred the work to has done a terrible job and he's not answering his phone to them or me.
 

neofox

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The ending was a bit unexpected, but good on you for being so open about everything! I wish you well in your new endeavors.
 

paulan

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I'd certainly also suggest never to create your own brand and run ads from there then sending the work to other companies like I did. Had another customer today complaining, they've left two comments on my facebook page, they've just called me ranting and raving. My partner that I referred the work to has done a terrible job and he's not answering his phone to them or me.
How is going so far with the business for you?
 

Paul David

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How does this model work? If you use this model can't they lie about them not showing up?

They can lie of course but our team followed up with every client they said was a no show to make sure that was correct.
 

Paul David

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How is going so far with the business for you?

So many things have changed since I started this thread!

Over the past 2 months, I've been working with clients in one niche. I'm essentially charging them for my software but I also help them with Facebook ads.

The problem is that a lot of these people are very impatient when it comes to ads. The ad will be running for 3 days and they'll say the ad isn't working, can we change it etc. Or the ad was great for a week but now it's gone quiet.

I've even been having to educate them just on general business. One client called me and said I've got a new lead what do I say to them when I call? ha.

This week I've launched my software for any business niche. I'm charging a monthly fee for the software and I'm not including any ads. I'm out of the game.

I only got into marketing to grow my former eCommerce brand. I'm much more comfortable and happier in just selling software. Throughout this journey, I've now found my calling.

My goal is for 1000 paying users in 12 months. I'm only 979 short!
 
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Votorik

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So many things have changed since I started this thread!

Over the past 2 months, I've been working with clients in one niche. I'm essentially charging them for my software but I also help them with Facebook ads.

The problem is that a lot of these people are very impatient when it comes to ads. The ad will be running for 3 days and they'll say the ad isn't working, can we change it etc. Or the ad was great for a week but now it's gone quiet.

I've even been having to educate them just on general business. One client called me and said I've got a new lead what do I say to them when I call? ha.

This week I've launched my software for any business niche. I'm charging a monthly fee for the software and I'm not including any ads. I'm out of the game.

I only got into marketing to grow my former eCommerce brand. I'm much more comfortable and happier in just selling software. Throughout this journey, I've now found my calling.

My goal is for 1000 paying users in 12 months. I'm only 979 short!
Did you build the software? is there a preview?
 

Paul David

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Did you build the software? is there a preview?

No, I didn't actually build the platform. It's sort of like an operating system for marketing agencies and you tailor it for your target niche.

I build out what features and functions I require. Will send you a link when it's ready.
 

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