From podcasting to newsletters... the new HOT thing?

[MJ DeMarco]

Well, the problem with zero entry is that there would be thousands of other people *trying* to do the same thing.

And that's the problem, it becomes such a noisy crowded space, that only the top few will remain. Opening your inbox every day to 19 newsletters is untenable, regardless of the content.

That's how I find podcasting today. The content is overwhelming, saturated, and plentiful -- to the point I haven't accepted any new podcast interviews as of late.

EVERYONE has a podcast which is why I never bothered to enter that space although with a small audience already, I'd have a slight advantage there. There are so many episodes, so many guests, so many talks, that it just becomes all noise to me. It is impossible to discern the good from the bad and after awhile, it all sounds the same.

Here's a tip: When the guru courses and books come out on a particular business model, like "how to start a podcast" which started with Dumas and snowballed-- the business model has climaxed and is on the way down. So when you see, "How to start your billion dollar newsletter! Join my $497 online training!" you know the business model has peaked.

 

[Lex DeVille]

What's the difference between the current gold rush of email newsletters and what's been going on for decades?

I thought "the money's in the list" and "you *need* and email list" were phrases bandied about for years.

The gold rush is in the reframing of email lists from marketing tools that sell stuff to individuals, to email newsletters as exclusive niche communities where hidden knowledge is found.

What's funny is the newsletter can still be used to sell you stuff as an individual.



Russell Brand promotes his newsletter in his free YouTube videos just in case YouTube cancels his channel. It's easy for people to want to join. Once they're inside, all of the standard email rules still apply. He can still promote and sell stuff as long as he also shares content the audience finds valuable.

Email lists are perceived kind of like this:

- I opted-in for this thing
- All other emails from this business are spam
- All other emails are written by NOT the influencer
- I am alone in a series of automations
- This experience is depersonalized

With newsletters you get:

- Charismatic leader
- In-Group
- Sense of community / identity
- Exclusive access to *hidden knowledge*
- Implied exclusive access to a guru
- Only the content you think you want
- I am part of something bigger than myself

When you break it down like that, newsletters are not so different from guru funnels and the cults we've talked about before.

P.S. I enjoy watching Russell's videos. I'm not calling him a dangerous cult leader. His opt-in page was just too perfect not to share as an example lol. Then again, can you really believe a cult member?

 

[MTF]

I got really deep into newsletters and don't really like podcasts much (I do listen to some but rarely as audio is my least favorite medium).

In my opinion, newsletters, as much as I enjoy reading them, are very overrated as a business model.

Podcasts are public, easily shareable, and relatively easy to market.

Newsletters are usually only available to subscribers which makes them hard to share and difficult to market. Add to that the fact that young generations don't really use email much and you have a really hard thing to sell, even for free.

I know for a fact that if my newsletter were a YouTube channel I'd probably be at 10x the amount of subscribers by now. Newsletters have no discovery mechanism built in and most people are too lazy to read, let alone read emails.

Also, the success stories for newsletters are mostly the same few newsletters over and over again.

So IMO, newsletters aren't the new hot thing. Short videos definitely are, though, as much as I dislike them.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

He doesn't care the size of their audience.

Are you serious? I guarantee you a guy who charges $50,000 an hour for speaking IS NOT getting interviewed by a podcaster with 25 followers and 100 downloads. Don't buy into his PR machine.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Good thread bump as I'm seeing this space growing quickly and getting saturated. I'm examining it (and trying to leverage) the shovel side of the equation, will report more on that later.

And that's the problem, it becomes such a noisy crowded space, that only the top few will remain. Opening your inbox every day to 19 newsletters is untenable, regardless of the content.

I'm subscribed to a dozen newsletters (all that seem valuable) and I'm having trouble consuming all of them. I've found they are contributing to information overload.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Was going to post this in the Random Chat thread but thought a separate discussion might be better.

Question: Are Newsletters the new hot thing? Closely behind short videos?

A few years ago it was podcasting and I feel like everyone had a podcast, and if they didn't, they were starting one.

Now I feel like it's "everyone has a newsletter" -- I always see these trends as a function of recent publicity in the space, such as Morning Brew sold for $X millions!

Of course, years ago it was "XYZ Podcast made $X millions! Joe Rogan got a 9-figure contract!"

Your thoughts?

 

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[ZF Lee]

Was going to post this in the Random Chat thread but thought a separate discussion might be better.

Question: Are Newsletters the new hot thing? Closely behind short videos?

A few years ago it was podcasting and I feel like everyone had a podcast, and if they didn't, they were starting one.

Now I feel like it's "everyone has a newsletter" -- I always see these trends as a function of recent publicity in the space, such as Morning Brew sold for $X millions!

Your thoughts?

I don't think it's a hot thing per say...more of a resurrection.

Newsletters used to be the de-facto way of publishing exclusive information for a select group of people.

And turns out with all the online censorship...the spam of poor content online (we are talking whacko Tik Tok dances mixed in with thinly veiled content marketing pieces)...newsletters can provide quality information for folks who are SICK of the drivel.

And how can Google or whatever media platform BAN newsletters?

If you are selling PRINTED copies-- and you have backup lists-- you can keep running.

Also, I think Ben Settle's book 'elBenbo Press' must have encouraged many to open newsletter-like channels.
Here, he digs into how he set up his flagship newsletter 'Email Players'.

I remember once he launched the book some time back, many top-notched copywriters like Chris Orzechowski and Daniel Throssell started offering paid newsletters of their own too. At least monthly.

They already sold their own offers-- so they weren't too desperate yet. But a side newsletter with some short articles could make for some OK recurring income.

 

[MTF]

EVERYONE has a podcast which is why I never bothered to enter that space although with a small audience already, I'd have a slight advantage there. There are so many episodes, so many guests, so many talks, that it just becomes all noise to me. It is impossible to discern the good from the bad and after awhile, it all sounds the same.

And the end result is that people only pay attention to the few biggest podcasts like Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, etc. This makes it very, very hard for an average guy to stand out unless you happen to be in a very specific niche where there's much less competition yet a need for information is strong (say, you're the biggest expert on skincare and mostly talk about that).

 

[Cameraman]

MailCheat(Chimp) is good for the free plan, but if you exceed that, the monthly fees is a huge cost center especially when there's better and cheaper alternatives. They're relying on being one of the first and most prominent names in this space to be able to charge this high.

I used a mail service about 6 years ago that offered 12,000 free emails a month. MailCheat(Chimp) bought it and said nothing would change. They then slapped the 500 limit on me and I needed to find a better solution fast.

I now use Amazon Web Services SES directly and pay around $2.00 a month for about 13,000 emails and +99% delivery. I'm using the Newsletter plugin in WorPress to build my emails and hook up to AWS. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of the email providers are built on AWS SES.

 

[Andy Black]

I can't be bothered having a free newsletter. If I'm going to make content free then I'd rather put it out there so people can find and share it. (I prefer open systems to closed systems.)

I think *paid* newsletters are hot at the moment. Substack, Revue, Beehiiv, etc are all tapping into the gold rush.

Twitter brought Revue a while back and integrated it into their ecosystem.

I've always liked paid email newsletters as MVPs for subscription based info-products.

Shove up a landing page where people pay to subscribe, and when you get your first subscriber send a personalised video welcome and ask what specifically they'd like to see.

I've done it a few times and it's so simple to setup and blow people's socks off.

I've never tried to scale any as my clients and revenue don't come through from consuming my content.

I subscribed to a few hardcopy monthly marketing newsletters years ago. I kind of miss those. I expect they'll become all the rage sometime soon.

I doubt many paid newsletter owners make much money. They still have to do the marketing right?

 

[SEBASTlAN]

I think the sale of the Hustle for $25M+ opened a few eyes. There's a ton now on substack but I suspect many will go to zero in a couple years. The same thing happened to podcasts, and blogs before that.

 

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[redshift]

I think the term 'newsletter' is also being overused now.

Most of the stuff on substack, ghost, etc, are essentially just blogs, which also happen to end up in your inbox. Substack is already starting to transition readers back into their ecosystem (with an app, web reader etc), and you can opt-out of the email component entirely now. Bit ironic, lol.

So it's a bit like a medium style paid publication which may or may not end up in your email. They also support podcasts, actually, and I know some creators are switching to Substack just for the podcast element of it.

Then, there are also the Morning Brew-style curated newsletters. Those are more close to the original term 'newsletter.' There's already a bunch of morning brew like clones popping up on beehiv. Not sure how well they are doing, though.

Basically, newsletter entry is effectively non-existent today. You can set up shop in less than 5 minutes with a $0 investment. Yes, you can succeed, but you'd have to be EXCEPTIONAL and stick to it for a long time (years).

 

[Red]

Question: Are Newsletters the new hot thing?

I honestly think it's because content creators realize how easy it is to get de-platformed or demonetized and they understand the importance of having a direct connection to their followers outside of these platforms & their completely subjective "community standards" bullshit.

 

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[DarkZero]

Ok, let me rephrase. He cares about audience size, *and* goes on smaller podcasts to get the content. So he says anyway. It was an aha moment for me to think of it as a way to get your own content.

I actually know of a guy that has a really small podcast and a very tiny audience at the time of interviewing GaryVee.

He went through the process of ordering books (or his wine... can't remember) in hopes for an interview. He knew Gary was going to be in his town for an event. Something about how the order didn't pan out and Gary's team said they wanted an large amount of money for him to be on the podcast. What happened was:

- Guy replied no thanks he couldn't afford.
- GaryV replies late at night saying he's in for 15 minutes to do the interview. Completely free.
- Ends up doing an hour long interview

The podcast never grew substantially. And his audience didn't grow from that. He even says he got a little spike in views for the video itself and then traffic dropped off. Just wasn't big enough to leverage it. But he's used the story to get traffic for sure haha.

^This is of course, not repeatable. Not a formula whatsoever. But just showing that he HAS done it. It's just not very common for hiim to do it.

And back on the topic of newsletters, the key is understanding if they ARE the business model itself or used to supplement the business to control traffic.

People might be confusing the two.

Russell Brand uses his to control his audience and feed them information while building the community. If he gets cancelled, he has that list and can go to another platform and continue to grow it. Tate continues to do this. The business model isn't the newsletter itself. But it amplifies the businesses.

The Morning Brew style newsletter is more focused on that being the make-or-break of revenue. Most personal brands don't rely on this. But for Morning Brew/The Hustle, this was everything to them.

Better to use a newsletter as a controlled source of communicating with your prospects/audience/community if your business is set up to benefit from that.

Going all in on a newsletter business as a sole form of revenue requires patience and a ton of marketing on platforms to drive traffic.

 

[Andy Black]

Good thread bump as I'm seeing this space growing quickly and getting saturated. I'm examining it (and trying to leverage) the shovel side of the equation, will report more on that later.

Me too. It's why I'm trying to figure out how to grow newsletters with Google Ads.

I'm subscribed to a dozen newsletters (all that seem valuable) and I'm having trouble consuming all of them. I've found they are contributing to information overload.

I unsubscribed from loads of newsletters recently.

I also heard someone's nice tip of having a filter for all emails that contain "Unsubscribe".

 

[MJ DeMarco]

He's probably going to start his own version of MailCheat(Chimp) or Klaviyo lol

Because it's another good company that was turned into garbage by Intuit, forged by Intuit's primary manifesto of greed and extortive business practices.

 

[amp0193]

Is there room for something like that again? Maybe a way to stand out in a crowded space. Perhaps if you increase the value somehow.... include the really great actionable info for sure, but depending on your niche, a physical product that goes along with it? Almost like combining the newsletter idea with the monthly boxes idea. Just spitballing here...

I saw Taylor Swift's cds and records on an end cap at Target yesterday.

Made me really miss owning physical media.

Getting a new album you've been waiting for. Unboxing it, flipping through the included book.


That, and nothing arrives in the mail anymore that isn't an Amazon package or junk mail. I've got my kids on a monthly subscription to a kid's magazine/activity thing. They love getting that mail when it arrives for them.


I think there are some macro trends at play that could make a physical newsletter type product be successful.


In business it's often good to do something that's different from what the crowd is doing.

 

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[Andy Black]

Basically, newsletter entry is effectively non-existent today. You can set up shop in less than 5 minutes with a $0 investment.

That's what I love about them. Have an idea? Setup a quick newsletter opt-in page and direct people to it. You don't even have to create a welcome email never mind your first issue till you've got your first subscriber.

Yes, you can succeed, but you'd have to be EXCEPTIONAL and stick to it for a long time (years).

I don't think you have to be exceptional or stick at it for a long time. I think it's a case of getting the right offer in front of the right people.

Dammit... you're getting me distracted again. I'm almost tempted to start something just to see how to grow it from nothing.


Here's my orignal long and winding progress thread where I ultimately didn't get very far:

• EXECUTION - Figuring Out Paid Email Newsletters

EDIT: Now look what you made me do...

A hobby?

I'm thinking of setting up a new email newsletter and linking to that from my mucking about on TikTok and YouTube Shorts.

I don't want the newsletter related to my Google Ads course. Making sales of that course isn't even a goal ... it's there for when people ask if I have a course.

I don't want the newsletter to be a funnel towards my client work either. I don't get client work from emails, or posting on TikTok or YouTube. Client work comes via building relationships with people and word-of-mouth. I want this completely separate from my client services business.

So this newsletter will be just a wee hobby and labour of love that I'll do for fun, and that gives a bit more purpose behind my mucking about on TikTok and YouTube.

What will the subject be? I'm not quite sure... but probably aimed at newbies to help them get started in business, and get better at marketing and sales. So I can post that stuff on TikTok and YouTube, and it will be the content of the newsletter.

Maybe I start a brand new YouTube channel for this too. Not sure. Not too fussed either way, which probably points towards not starting a new channel.

What platform? I don't want it linked to my New Zenler installation in any way, so I might use something like www.beehiiv.com which has a free tier.

 

[redshift]

What's the difference between the current gold rush of email newsletters and what's been going on for decades?

I'd say it's just the number of platforms popping up to make it easier to start something like this.

As mentioned above, some big ones selling for $mm deals (hustle, morning brew, etc) probably turned some heads.

But back then, entry was probably much higher too. So, you'd have to put in a lot more work (or at least $$$) to build something worth $mm.

Substack, Revue, Beehiv, Sendfox are all free and one-click setups. Just like a blog. So everyone is doing it now.

Only the better ones will stand after the new rush fades.

I thought "the money's in the list" and "you *need* and email list" were phrases bandied about for years.

I like to approach this equation the other way around.

Money's in the product. Build a good enough product and the list will come.

Yes, this applies to 'newsletter as the product' as well.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

And the end result is that people only pay attention to the few biggest podcasts like Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, etc. This makes it very, very hard for an average guy to stand out unless you happen to be in a very specific niche where there's much less competition yet a need for information is strong (say, you're the biggest expert on skincare and mostly talk about that).

If you have a podcast and you manage to become a guest on one of those guys' podcasts though, you are going to go from 1,000 listeners to millions. Instantly.

Of course you can go to B-list, C-list, or D-list hosts and guests as well. It's really all about guests and audiences. If your guests and hosts don't have audiences it's kind of a waste of time.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I honestly think it's because content creators realize how easy it is to get de-platformed or demonetized and they understand the importance of having a direct connection to their followers outside of these platforms & their completely subjective "community standards" bullshit.

Excellent point, it's a good method to reign in control over one's audience.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

I think it was Gary V who I heard recently say he mostly does podcats for the content. His team needs content to chop up and distribute. His talks and podcast appearances are mostly to get material to feed into his content machine. He doesn't care the size of their audience.

He definitely cares about the size of the audience. He says that because he is appealing to the little guy. Keep in mind too he also already has made his footprint - millions of followers - household name - so growing his audience isn’t as difficult as it is for a new podcaster and might not be his top focus. But I guarantee it’s a part of his strategy

 

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[Andy Black]

Ok, let me rephrase. He cares about audience size, *and* goes on smaller podcasts to get the content. So he says anyway. It was an aha moment for me to think of it as a way to get your own content.

 

[Andy Black]

I used a mail service about 6 years ago that offered 12,000 free emails a month. MailCheat(Chimp) bought it and said nothing would change. They then slapped the 500 limit on me and I needed to find a better solution fast.

I now use Amazon Web Services SES directly and pay around $2.00 a month for about 13,000 emails and +99% delivery. I'm using the Newsletter plugin in WorPress to build my emails and hook up to AWS. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of the email providers are built on AWS SES.

Thanks for this.

I'll check it out: Amazon Simple Email Service (SES)

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

t gave me the idea to promote my business on other's newsletters

I think this is still a great way to advertise, and likely should get cheaper as newsletters saturate the marketplace. My grandma and the next door neighbor now have a newsletter ... the stampede of entrants should follow the same pattern as podcasting in 2018.

The real money will be made by those who SERVE the newsletter industry... just like many entrepreneurs got wealthy SERVING the podcasting industry versus those Toms, Dicks, and Harriets who started another podcast, 1 amongst the other 3,110,401 podcasts.

 

[Sean Marshall]

If you are selling PRINTED copies-- and you have backup lists-- you can keep running.

Years ago I was on this guy's list and I paid $50/mo for a printed newsletter that came in the mail each month along with a CD (yes, a CD) of a recorded interview (basically a podcast but on a CD). It was a cute little package and I actually really liked the physical aspect of it.

Is there room for something like that again? Maybe a way to stand out in a crowded space. Perhaps if you increase the value somehow.... include the really great actionable info for sure, but depending on your niche, a physical product that goes along with it? Almost like combining the newsletter idea with the monthly boxes idea. Just spitballing here...

I'm subscribed to a dozen newsletters (all that seem valuable) and I'm having trouble consuming all of them. I've found they are contributing to information overload.

I wonder if there's some handy AI tool out there where you could plug in your favorite newsletters, tell it what you want to know, and then it sends you a TL;DR kind of thing?...

 

[redshift]

I don't think you have to be exceptional or stick at it for a long time. I think it's a case of getting the right offer in front of the right people.

Well, the problem with zero entry is that there would be thousands of other people *trying* to do the same thing. So consumer tolerance for this type of stuff gets lower and lower the more people come in. Yeah, you could probably find a niche and market to them. But for someone trying to get in on the gold rush. i.e - starting from scratch with not much of a budget, I would say the odds are stacked against.

Dammit... you're getting me distracted again. I'm almost tempted to start something just to see how to grow it from nothing.


Here's my orignal long and winding progress thread where I ultimately didn't get very far:

Haha, go for it. I would be curious to see your results.

Although doesn't your second post answer the first? (i.e "didn't get very far")

 

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[redshift]

I just signed up to Beehiiv and will start a new newsletter as a hobby and to see how they work.

They actually have some interesting features they've been adding recently.

eg: A/B testing the headline/subject of a newsletter with corresponding analytics for the open rates (similar to ad platforms). This is a pretty cool marketing tool on its own if you have a newsletter for a product and want to test conversion rates etc.

They also have an in-built partner/ad network (similar to sparkloop partner network) as an alternate monetization option. So you can have a free newsletter (which is easier to grow) and find sponsors directly from within the platform. They take care of placements and invoicing etc. But you can only enable it after 1000 subs (fair enough).

And there's also the morning brew style referral system built in where you can offer rewards for readers to refer your newsletter and grow faster.

BUT, everyone else on beehiv has all this as well I still stand by my original premise of having to be exceptional and sticking to it for a long time.

Good luck. Curious to see your results.

 

[Andy Black]

'newsletter as the product'

I think that sums up the difference.

Email marketing is seen as a way to make sales of products/services.

Newsletters are seen as the product itself.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

There's a line of thinking that it's the content you want not so much access to other people's audiences. Chop up the content and post it to the platforms.

It might be both, but something I've noticed is that I used to watch Graham Stephan and MeetKevin a lot when I was younger, and they have totally left the pure financial videos and now they are interviewing people like Liver King and MrBeast.

It's a very typical thing... People with audiences go after people with more audiences. It's not even about the content. It's about reach. The good ones all do this.

 

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