Expanding Outside Upwork -- Creating My Own Website, Email- and Direct Mail Campaigns + much more!

[Lex DeVille]

I’ve been on Upwork for the last 9 months and just now got my first real, repeating client. It’s a big European online tire shop that needs product descriptions pretty frequently.

Despite the fact that I have a repeating client I’m still on my way to the first 1k from Upwork. I know I should’ve made that 1k A LONG TIME AGO but learning copywriting and how to get clients has taken a lot of my time. I’m also guilty of procrastinating to be honest.

Since there are plenty of prospective clients outside Upwork I thought why the hell haven’t I reached out to them yet? Why have all the eggs in one basket?

So, here’s what I’m going to do:

1. Create my own website so everybody can find me.
2. Figure out what kind of services I’m going to provide. (Copywriting, consulting, etc…)
3. Start a blog on that website to educate my clients and drive traffic. (I’m figuring out ideas for content, I have to find a way to teach my clients about copywriting, I’m open to suggestions.)
4. Find lists of fresh startups and send them personalized emails about how I could help them stand-out and get clients with my copywriting.
5. Send direct mailers to local businesses. (Or should I look up their website and walk in to the store and tell them how I could make their copy better?)
6. Create Autoresponder series to have people sign up for my newsletter and to sell my services to them. (I could send an email every time I post on the blog and when I have some valuable information for my newsletter receivers. I think I should create at least 15 emails before hand. Again, open to suggestions.)
7. Figure out pricing.
8. Create my own E-book(s) for clients to educate them. (Topics are still unknown)
9. Maybe set up social media accounts? (Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram)

So, this is what I’m currently working on, I’m not sure if I’m going to do everything in that order but these are the things I’m going to do. If I missed something relevant or there’s something wrong with that list, please let me know, I don’t want to do this half-assed.

This is my first time really trying to grow my business so any advice is welcomed, no need to be kind, no need to handle with care, if there’s anything wrong with these ideas, let me know!

Crossing all of these will take a little bit of time since my current financial situation doesn’t allow me to spend on these immediately. I’m going to have my next salary on Friday (yes, I’m currently working a slowlane job) so after Friday I can calculate how much money I can spend.

Currently I have money coming in from two sources; Upwork (about 250€ a month) and my part-time slowlane job which is stevedoring (about 450-1500€ a month). If you have any ideas on how I could hustle things up more, I’m all ears.

Few questions for you:

1. How much money should I spend on a website?
2. What should the website contain other than blog, basic information, picture, contact form, portfolio (I only have pieces that I created when I was applying for jobs on Upwork)?
3. What do you think is the best web host? GoDaddy?
4. Should I use Upwork, Fiverr or Craigslist to find the person who’d make me a website?

I’d like to feel accountable for this forum, so if you guys are interested I’d be happy to feed you information about my journey and how everything is evolving.

I'm glad I read TMF and grateful for the people on this forum who put time and effort to give advice for others that are just starting out and going through hurdles.

-Tuomas

1. Figure out who you can serve best with your copy.
2. Figure out how much you will charge.
3. Find clients and get sales.

Skip all that other shit until you get a client outside of Upwork because until you do, it's a waste of time.

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

"You don't need a website, you need sales." - @Andy Black

 

[Andy Black]

www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/spend-your-money-on-diesel-and-coffee.70072

What's worked for me is to find a client from the people I already know, do a good job, make it a case study/story I can tell people, and have delighted clients refer me to other people.

Maybe check out the first radio interview linked to in my signature (and the calls with @SinisterLex and @Nicoknowsbest in particular).

PS: I've been self employed since 2000 and only got a business card a couple of weeks ago, and my website only recently had more than the business name on it (it now has a contact us form on it).

PPS: Posting in forums has helped me too. Listen to the call with @TedM.

 

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[TheGrind]

@TheGrind Yes, you are right, I'm going after small businesses. I believe that with my current skill level they are the ones that will benefit the most from my copywriting. I don't yet consider myself a master copywriter since my copy hasn't been "proven".

What I mean by that is I haven't gotten any results or feedback from my former clients about how well the copy has performed.

It's true that many of the small business owners don't know what copywriting is, they usually have never even heard the word!

Would you like to tell me a little bit more about the "Advertising Blueprint" -bundle idea you mentioned? It sounds interesting.

Thanks for helping me out!

@Nicoknowsbest Yes, I'll move forward with stable steps, try not to get too many tasks at hand at the same time. They 7 Day Startup is going to be something I'll take a closer look when the time is right. I already put your progress thread on my watched thread list.

It's great to have such motivating advice from you guys, I'll definitely keep you posted!

Sure, basically when I was writing copy for smaller businesses I bundled it up and offered a package that included a direct mail letter and a few Adwords variations.

You can include whatever you want in this bundle and charge whatever you want -- I started off at $1,000.

Then explain the benefits of your copy and how the direct mail letter and Adwords can be put to use in their business.

 

[Andy Black]

@Nicoknowsbest @Andy Black I called the prospect today and he sounded excited when he remembered what we discussed a week ago.

He had seen the examples I sent.

He was in a middle of a meeting so the call wasn't long, we agreed that I'll call him on Monday.

I've been stalking local business' websites and I have to say there are opportunities out there.

Law firms without proper slogans...

An academy with bad quality pictures on their website...

Almost none of the accounting firms in the area have any kind of slogan and neither do law firms.

I think those businesses are among the best to write slogans for.

For inspiration here are two links that contain hilarious and very effective slogans for law and accounting firms:

Law firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/124-catchy-law-firm-slogans-and-attorney-taglines/

Accounting firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/list-42-catchy-accounting-slogans-and-taglines/

I'm also going to keep my eyes open while walking the streets for poorly written signs...

There's so much money circulating within 50m of where you're sat. All you have to do is get some of it to flow through you. (It's called currency for a reason right?)

Maybe even try listing everything wrong with their marketing efforts and rattle off what they could do to solve them?

Say you can get it done for them if they want, starting with their tagline which you think doesn't do them justice?

What I'm finding is that some businesses just want a done-for-you service. They want a go-to person for all their marketing needs - AdWords, landing pages, website, infographics, logos, email newsletters, eCommerce site design, etc.

 

[TheGrind]

From reading this, I get the vibe you're going after smaller business owners.

Which is great because you've identified a target market. However, most small business owners have no idea what copywriting is. A solution to this is to package your service in a bundle such as an "Advertising Blueprint" or something.

Assuming you're a decent copywriter, you can handle the rest. I'd love to help you in your transition though!

 

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[Andy Black]

First cold call behind.

I spoke with the person for more than 30mins, he was interested in my ideas and we discussed about the product and how the big pharmaceutical companies are trying to get his product out of the market.

But he wanted to know more about me before he'd say yes.

This is a bit of a pickle since I don't have any similar portfolio pieces from previous clients. I think the life coaching website's case study should be made in the near future.

@Andy Black @TheGrind @Nicoknowsbest if a client wants to know more about you, how would you tell them about yourself and about what you do?

I told him how I started my business in January and how I'm now trying to get more clients. I also told him my full name and the name of my company, where I live and so on...

...but he told me to send more information about myself to his email.

I had troubles telling him the price and I ended up saying something like: "I'm trying to get more client's. You are the first person I'm calling, what if you get this first ad for free and if it performs well, I'll do more for you." I know it's bad but that was all I could get out of my mouth.

But the fact that he didn't hang up on me or tell me that he doesn't need my services keeps me positive. He said that he is interested in hearing new ideas and how he could improve his marketing.

He has been writing the ads himself for 40 years, and I can tell he hasn't learned much about copywriting during those years...

It's all good.

When you're asked about price just laugh it off and say it's too early to say as you've not worked out what he needs yet, and what you can do for him. I'll sometimes give a range for different services but make it obvious there's a big range and "it depends".

I don't normally get people asking more about me, but then I probably drop so many stories into our first conversation that I've automatically overcome that objection/fear of theirs.

Just aend an email telling him what you've done for people already, and what successes people have had. Or show him a few simple things he can do to improve his copy/ads/etc already. "Show don't tell." is a very good rule to live by.


Check out one of the latest posts in my Local Lead Geb thread (linked to in my signature).

 

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[Nicoknowsbest]

@TomW

Good work on holding yourself accountable and making progress.

Picking up the phone is something many people struggle with.

When you're asked about price just laugh it off and say it's too early to say as you've not worked out what he needs yet, and what you can do for him. I'll sometimes give a range for different services but make it obvious there's a big range and "it depends".

In the beginning, don't worry too much about pricing.

Put it out there.

Get it wrong. Too high. Too low. Don't worry.

You'll learn.

He has been writing the ads himself for 40 years, and I can tell he hasn't learned much about copywriting during those years...

Stop what you are doing.

Take one ad and write it for him.

Pour your heart and soul into it.

Send him an email, give him the information he asked for, be honest and SHOW him the ad.

I had troubles telling him the price and I ended up saying something like: "I'm trying to get more client's. You are the first person I'm calling, what if you get this first ad for free and if it performs well, I'll do more for you." I know it's bad but that was all I could get out of my mouth.

Once you finished the ad, you could spend an hour reading this book:

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/free-breaking-the-time-barrier.71226/

It helped me tremendously.

Keep going!

 

[TomW]

I went to the kebab restaurant after all.

Felt so F*cking bad for being lazy. Luckily they are open till 10 PM.

It wasn't a success though, I felt like the owner didn't understand what I meant by copywriting or "writing his website".

He said he had been talking to a friend who's a web developer that agreed to "do everything" which in this case meant buying the domain, coding the site and writing the copy.

I tried to explain him why it's good to have a copywriter to do the writing. Web developers are web developers not copywriters, they are better at making the site function better and all the technical aspects.

He also told me that he had been talking to other web developers and advertising companies and that they charge 1500€ for a website which in his opinion is way too much.

After this he suddenly just stood up and went to the kitchen. Never really gave me a yes or a no. But judging from his body language he was not interested.

This was a real shame because the previous restaurateur made the same mistake. Didn't invest in a proper website OR advertising OR copywriting.

He had to close in two months.

Even if he agreed to have me write his website he wouldn't have seen the value in it since he already told me that "1500€ for a website is too much".

I probably would've ended haggling for him and that's something I don't want to do.

My takeaways from the event:

1. SET UP A MEETING. Don't walk in to a place which has a constant flow of customers or a lot of people around you while the owner tries to run the place at the same time he is discussing business with you, or things he/she has never even heard of.

I started the conversation just by walking in and asking if he remembered what we discussed last time we saw.

2. PREPARE. Show 'em, don't tell 'em. Have something relevant you can show immediately, don't expect everybody to know about copywriting and the value it has.

When I was eating my kebab I started to google "kebab copywriting" and "restaurant copywriting". I managed to find decent copy about a kebab restaurant but it was on a brochure not a website. Not good.

3. LEAVE THEM WITH SOMETHING. Give tips about how they can improve their current copy, whether it's the slogan on their window or their current web copy, or the flier they give people or the copy on the sign they have in front of the door in the street.

Before I went out the door I just awkwardly stood there for a while because the owner just stood up and went to the kitchen. I didn't know how to end a conversation like this or how to act when someone just stands up and leaves. I felt like a moron.


But it was good practice for me, I'm glad I went out and didn't stay home like loser.

Not picking up the phone still makes me a little bit mad, though.

 

[TomW]

There's so much money circulating within 50m of where you're sat. All you have to do is get some of it to flow through you. (It's called currency for a reason right?)

Maybe even try listing everything wrong with their marketing efforts and rattle off what they could do to solve them?

Say you can get it done for them if they want, starting with their tagline which you think doesn't do them justice?

What I'm finding is that some businesses just want a done-for-you service. They want a go-to person for all their marketing needs - AdWords, landing pages, website, infographics, logos, email newsletters, eCommerce site design, etc.

@Andy Black You are absolutely right. I have a 10 million supercar dealership business right below me!

https://www.instagram.com/autoliikemarkosipila/?hl=fi
http://www.markosipila.fi/

You are right about being the go-to guy.

I don't have that much experience about designing things but I think I could outsource it. Or just simply learn the basics and work it up from there.

I could list things that don't work for the business owner or things that are just plain wrong, explain it to them and ask if they want me to take care of it.

It could be like a bundle just like @TheGrind said in earlier posts.

 

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[AgainstAllOdds]

Gotta admit, I've been lazy for over a week and picked up the phone until today.

I called the man I've been trying to reach who knows how many times. He was again in the middle of a meeting.

We agreed that I call him tomorrow 1 pm.

It's been difficult to get into conversation with him, if it doesn't work tomorrow I'm going to let this one go and move to the next one.

The customers that are hardest to get are the ones that are easiest to keep. Think of it form a competitor's perspective: Will a competitor want to come in and compete if it's too much work?

 

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[Andy Black]

my mother has a life coaching website that needs improvement, first thing I'm going to do is rewrite her website.

Boom. Right under your nose! (Watch the second video in this post.)

“Never worry about numbers.
Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you.”
(Mother Theresa)​

I'm going to listen the interviews and calls.

So long as it's in your down time from working on your mother's site first.

(Producing > Consuming)

 

[TomW]

It's all good.

When you're asked about price just laugh it off and say it's too early to say as you've not worked out what he needs yet, and what you can do for him. I'll sometimes give a range for different services but make it obvious there's a big range and "it depends".

I don't normally get people asking more about me, but then I probably drop so many stories into our first conversation that I've automatically overcome that objection/fear of theirs.

Just aend an email telling him what you've done for people already, and what successes people have had. Or show him a few simple things he can do to improve his copy/ads/etc already. "Show don't tell." is a very good rule to live by.


Check out one of the latest posts in my Local Lead Geb thread (linked to in my signature).

@Andy Black that's a great way to approach when it comes to talking about prices. For some reason every time when someone starts talking numbers I immediately try to come up with a number. Not the way to go. I think I just have to do more calling to get more comfortable at this.

I will write him an email and tell him how he can improve the current copy and how I've managed to help people. I'll also include a few samples of how the ad could look like.

"Show 'em, don't tell 'em" that's what I've heard also!

I will check out your Local Lead Gen thread and also drop the nuggets I picked from your radio interview to the calls and interview threads, I haven't forgot about it!

 

[Andy Black]

I went to the kebab restaurant after all.

Felt so F*cking bad for being lazy. Luckily they are open till 10 PM.

It wasn't a success though, I felt like the owner didn't understand what I meant by copywriting or "writing his website".

He said he had been talking to a friend who's a web developer that agreed to "do everything" which in this case meant buying the domain, coding the site and writing the copy.

I tried to explain him why it's good to have a copywriter to do the writing. Web developers are web developers not copywriters, they are better at making the site function better and all the technical aspects.

He also told me that he had been talking to other web developers and advertising companies and that they charge 1500€ for a website which in his opinion is way too much.

After this he suddenly just stood up and went to the kitchen. Never really gave me a yes or a no. But judging from his body language he was not interested.

This was a real shame because the previous restaurateur made the same mistake. Didn't invest in a proper website OR advertising OR copywriting.

He had to close in two months.

Even if he agreed to have me write his website he wouldn't have seen the value in it since he already told me that "1500€ for a website is too much".

I probably would've ended haggling for him and that's something I don't want to do.

My takeaways from the event:

1. SET UP A MEETING. Don't walk in to a place which has a constant flow of customers or a lot of people around you while the owner tries to run the place at the same time he is discussing business with you, or things he/she has never even heard of.

I started the conversation just by walking in and asking if he remembered what we discussed last time we saw.

2. PREPARE. Show 'em, don't tell 'em. Have something relevant you can show immediately, don't expect everybody to know about copywriting and the value it has.

When I was eating my kebab I started to google "kebab copywriting" and "restaurant copywriting". I managed to find decent copy about a kebab restaurant but it was on a brochure not a website. Not good.

3. LEAVE THEM WITH SOMETHING. Give tips about how they can improve their current copy, whether it's the slogan on their window or their current web copy, or the flier they give people or the copy on the sign they have in front of the door in the street.

Before I went out the door I just awkwardly stood there for a while because the owner just stood up and went to the kitchen. I didn't know how to end a conversation like this or how to act when someone just stands up and leaves. I felt like a moron.


But it was good practice for me, I'm glad I went out and didn't stay home like loser.

Not picking up the phone still makes me a little bit mad, though.

Yes, "leave something behind to keep talking to them when you're gone. Preferably the thing you used to "Show, don't tell."

Thanks for the honest writeups. Good learnings. Well done.

 

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[TomW]

It's not one specific post, but rather a development I saw recently.

Some of it might be on the inside (INSIDERS's section of the forum) though.

He linked to his private Facebook group in his signature and there this was the topic of discussion recently - go and join.

Let me know if you find what you are looking for!

P.S.: Any feedback from that prospect?

@Nicoknowsbest Okay. I deleted my Facebook account a year ago because of the noise.

I may be putting it up again if there are other golden groups like @SinisterLex's though!

I found something similar: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/need-help-with-pricing-negotiating.71622/

I know the thread is mainly about pricing and all that stuff (which isn't my main concern at the moment ) but there are also things said about how the right client sees the value in what you are doing for them.

Great read in my opinion.

Actually he hasn't responded to me yet, I sent him a text message yesterday. I'll call him tomorrow and let you know how it went!

I'm currently looking for local businesses on Google Maps and their websites to see if there's something I can help them with or improve.

I'm also going to get back to the newspaper ads I found at the library last week.

Thanks for the help again @Nicoknowsbest!

 

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[TomW]

@Nicoknowsbest @Andy Black I called the prospect today and he sounded excited when he remembered what we discussed a week ago.

He had seen the examples I sent.

He was in a middle of a meeting so the call wasn't long, we agreed that I'll call him on Monday.

I've been stalking local business' websites and I have to say there are opportunities out there.

Law firms without proper slogans...

An academy with bad quality pictures on their website...

Almost none of the accounting firms in the area have any kind of slogan and neither do law firms.

I think those businesses are among the best to write slogans for.

For inspiration here are two links that contain hilarious and very effective slogans for law and accounting firms:

Law firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/124-catchy-law-firm-slogans-and-attorney-taglines/

Accounting firms slogans
http://brandongaille.com/list-42-catchy-accounting-slogans-and-taglines/

I'm also going to keep my eyes open while walking the streets for poorly written signs...

 

[TomW]

The 10 million € super car biz below me!

 

[TomW]

I’ve been on Upwork for the last 9 months and just now got my first real, repeating client. It’s a big European online tire shop that needs product descriptions pretty frequently.

Despite the fact that I have a repeating client I’m still on my way to the first 1k from Upwork. I know I should’ve made that 1k A LONG TIME AGO but learning copywriting and how to get clients has taken a lot of my time. I’m also guilty of procrastinating to be honest.

Since there are plenty of prospective clients outside Upwork I thought why the hell haven’t I reached out to them yet? Why have all the eggs in one basket?

So, here’s what I’m going to do:

1. Create my own website so everybody can find me.
2. Figure out what kind of services I’m going to provide. (Copywriting, consulting, etc…)
3. Start a blog on that website to educate my clients and drive traffic. (I’m figuring out ideas for content, I have to find a way to teach my clients about copywriting, I’m open to suggestions.)
4. Find lists of fresh startups and send them personalized emails about how I could help them stand-out and get clients with my copywriting.
5. Send direct mailers to local businesses. (Or should I look up their website and walk in to the store and tell them how I could make their copy better?)
6. Create Autoresponder series to have people sign up for my newsletter and to sell my services to them. (I could send an email every time I post on the blog and when I have some valuable information for my newsletter receivers. I think I should create at least 15 emails before hand. Again, open to suggestions.)
7. Figure out pricing.
8. Create my own E-book(s) for clients to educate them. (Topics are still unknown)
9. Maybe set up social media accounts? (Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram)

So, this is what I’m currently working on, I’m not sure if I’m going to do everything in that order but these are the things I’m going to do. If I missed something relevant or there’s something wrong with that list, please let me know, I don’t want to do this half-assed.

This is my first time really trying to grow my business so any advice is welcomed, no need to be kind, no need to handle with care, if there’s anything wrong with these ideas, let me know!

Crossing all of these will take a little bit of time since my current financial situation doesn’t allow me to spend on these immediately. I’m going to have my next salary on Friday (yes, I’m currently working a slowlane job) so after Friday I can calculate how much money I can spend.

Currently I have money coming in from two sources; Upwork (about 250€ a month) and my part-time slowlane job which is stevedoring (about 450-1500€ a month). If you have any ideas on how I could hustle things up more, I’m all ears.

Few questions for you:

1. How much money should I spend on a website?
2. What should the website contain other than blog, basic information, picture, contact form, portfolio (I only have pieces that I created when I was applying for jobs on Upwork)?
3. What do you think is the best web host? GoDaddy?
4. Should I use Upwork, Fiverr or Craigslist to find the person who’d make me a website?

I’d like to feel accountable for this forum, so if you guys are interested I’d be happy to feed you information about my journey and how everything is evolving.

I'm glad I read TMF and grateful for the people on this forum who put time and effort to give advice for others that are just starting out and going through hurdles.

-Tuomas

 

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[TomW]

1. Figure out who you can serve best with your copy.
2. Figure out how much you will charge.
3. Find clients and get sales.

Skip all that other shit until you get a client outside of Upwork because until you do, it's a waste of time.

@SinisterLex You are right. I think I'm guilty of action faking, I wasn't focusing on what's relevant.

1. I think my current skill level is best for entrepreneurs and businesses that are writing all of their ads and online copy themselves without knowing how to do it properly, also I could help online and offline businesses with their product descriptions and their website copy.

2. I could charge 25€/h or 50e per ad or 100€ per landing page. This is something I'm still figuring out and having problems with.

3. I think I'll go to the library today, crab a lot of local newspapers, find ads on them that I could improve, make a list of those improvements and then call to the person or business that placed the ad and suggest my ideas on how the ad could perform better and then ask them if they want me to re-write it.

I asked my mother today if I could rewrite her life coaching website's copy and she agreed to that, so that's going to be my first piece to my portfolio outside Upwork. I will also be able to make a case study about it.

"You don't need a website, you need sales." - @Andy Black

@Nicoknowsbest True, I listened to Andy's radio interview and realized that I wasn't thinking correctly when I thought I'd need to put up a website to get my business rolling.

www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/spend-your-money-on-diesel-and-coffee.70072

What's worked for me is to find a client from the people I already know, do a good job, make it a case study/story I can tell people, and have delighted clients refer me to other people.

Maybe check out the first radio interview linked to in my signature (and the calls with @SinisterLex and @Nicoknowsbest in particular).

PS: I've been self employed since 2000 and only got a business card a couple of weeks ago, and my website only recently had more than the business name on it (it now has a contact us form on it).

PPS: Posting in forums has helped me too. Listen to the call with @TedM.

You are right @Andy Black my mother has a life coaching website that needs improvement, first thing I'm going to do is rewrite her website.

I listened the first radio interview yesterday and it had great advice, I realized I was an action faker when I thought that I'd need to put up a website and all that other stuff to get business rolling.

I'm going to listen the interviews and calls.

-Tuomas

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

If you were in a similar situation, what would you do?

Don't worry.

(Over-)think less.

Do more.

Help somebody with what you can do today.

Watch what happens once you become active. Once you build momentum.

If you start doing, many pieces will start falling into place.

 

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[Andy Black]

The problem is that I don't yet know what the "value" in this case is. Is it the amount of calls the customer will get after I rewrite an ad? Is it the amount of clicks their banner get's, or is it the amount of money they will receive after I've written a sales letter?

Let me ask you this: If you were in a similar situation, what would you do?

What would I do? Same as what @Nicoknowsbest suggests.

And to charge a flat-rate rather than hourly rate.

Base the price on what you think they will pay. (It's not really the actual value they will get, but the perceived value they will get, and this will be reflected in the price they are prepared to pay.)

The best piece of pricing advice I heard was to "get it wrong". (www.tropicalmba.com/services)

Stick a price on it and see how the market reacts.

 

[TomW]

Don't worry.

(Over-)think less.

Do more.

Help somebody with what you can do today.

Watch what happens once you become active. Once you build momentum.

If you start doing, many pieces will start falling into place.

@Nicoknowsbest True, I've been trying to think everything through for a while now without even trying things in practice. I'll be out of town from tomorrow till Sunday. Monday is when I'll start writing the website copy and when I get that finished (I think it'll take me 2-3 days) I'll grab the phone and start calling.

What would I do? Same as what @Nicoknowsbest suggests.

And to charge a flat-rate rather than hourly rate.

Base the price on what you think they will pay. (It's not really the actual value they will get, but the perceived value they will get, and this will be reflected in the price they are prepared to pay.)

The best piece of pricing advice I heard was to "get it wrong". (www.tropicalmba.com/services)

Stick a price on it and see how the market reacts.

@Andy Black I'll charge a flat rate, I'll figure out how much, and then begin calling, see how they react and start working my way up from there.
I'm gonna check out those TropicalMBA guys!

Thanks for all the wisdom you've slapped my face with. I'm really just beginning so I'm very thankful for you for taking the time and giving advice.

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

I think it'll take me 2-3 days

One step at a time.

Focus on getting stuff done.

But don't get overwhelmed.

Don't keep anything for yourself - get feedback from the market as soon as possible.

Something that might help you too: I just finished reading "The 7 Day Startup" today.

An easy, but powerful read.

Start. Don't stop. Report your experiences. Get feedback. Learn. Move. Succeed.

GO!

 

[TomW]

From reading this, I get the vibe you're going after smaller business owners.

Which is great because you've identified a target market. However, most small business owners have no idea what copywriting is. A solution to this is to package your service in a bundle such as an "Advertising Blueprint" or something.

Assuming you're a decent copywriter, you can handle the rest. I'd love to help you in your transition though!

@TheGrind Yes, you are right, I'm going after small businesses. I believe that with my current skill level they are the ones that will benefit the most from my copywriting. I don't yet consider myself a master copywriter since my copy hasn't been "proven".

What I mean by that is I haven't gotten any results or feedback from my former clients about how well the copy has performed.

It's true that many of the small business owners don't know what copywriting is, they usually have never even heard the word!

Would you like to tell me a little bit more about the "Advertising Blueprint" -bundle idea you mentioned? It sounds interesting.

Thanks for helping me out!

One step at a time.

Focus on getting stuff done.

But don't get overwhelmed.

Don't keep anything for yourself - get feedback from the market as soon as possible.

Something that might help you too: I just finished reading "The 7 Day Startup" today.

An easy, but powerful read.

Start. Don't stop. Report your experiences. Get feedback. Learn. Move. Succeed.

GO!

@Nicoknowsbest Yes, I'll move forward with stable steps, try not to get too many tasks at hand at the same time. They 7 Day Startup is going to be something I'll take a closer look when the time is right. I already put your progress thread on my watched thread list.

It's great to have such motivating advice from you guys, I'll definitely keep you posted!

 

[TomW]

First cold call behind.

I spoke with the person for more than 30mins, he was interested in my ideas and we discussed about the product and how the big pharmaceutical companies are trying to get his product out of the market.

But he wanted to know more about me before he'd say yes.

This is a bit of a pickle since I don't have any similar portfolio pieces from previous clients. I think the life coaching website's case study should be made in the near future.

@Andy Black @TheGrind @Nicoknowsbest if a client wants to know more about you, how would you tell them about yourself and about what you do?

I told him how I started my business in January and how I'm now trying to get more clients. I also told him my full name and the name of my company, where I live and so on...

...but he told me to send more information about myself to his email.

I had troubles telling him the price and I ended up saying something like: "I'm trying to get more client's. You are the first person I'm calling, what if you get this first ad for free and if it performs well, I'll do more for you." I know it's bad but that was all I could get out of my mouth.

But the fact that he didn't hang up on me or tell me that he doesn't need my services keeps me positive. He said that he is interested in hearing new ideas and how he could improve his marketing.

He has been writing the ads himself for 40 years, and I can tell he hasn't learned much about copywriting during those years...

 

[TomW]

@TomW

Good work on holding yourself accountable and making progress.

Picking up the phone is something many people struggle with.

@Nicoknowsbest Thanks, it feels great.

Before I started calling I wrote on this thread what I was going to do, that's how I will keep myself accountable now and in the future. I was so nervous when I picked up the phone but once he answered and I started explaining my nervousness went away.

In the beginning, don't worry too much about pricing.

Put it out there.

Get it wrong. Too high. Too low. Don't worry.

You'll learn.

I will now stop worrying about the price, I'm sure I will come to an agreement with the client.

Stop what you are doing.

Take one ad and write it for him.

Pour your heart and soul into it.

Send him an email, give him the information he asked for, be honest and SHOW him the ad.

I know it sounded wrong when I put it like that. What I meant was; there's still very much for him to gain.

Once you finished the ad, you could spend an hour reading this book:

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/free-breaking-the-time-barrier.71226/
(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});
It helped me tremendously.

Keep going!

I will definitely read the book!

 

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[TomW]

Yes, "leave something behind to keep talking to them when you're gone. Preferably the thing you used to "Show, don't tell."

Thanks for the honest writeups. Good learnings. Well done.

Thanks @Andy Black, lessons were learned. It's funny how I never even thought about these things but during the conversation I was like "Hell, why didn't I prepare for this, shit I have nothing to show".

By the way @Andy Black and @Nicoknowsbest, when you guys started your businesses did you immediately set some kind of monetary goals or milestones for your business?

For example: "In the next 30 days I try to make 1000$" or "In the next 30 days I will try to get 2 customers"

I feel a little bit like I'm just calling everyone without a definite goal.

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

By the way @Andy Black and @Nicoknowsbest, when you guys started your businesses did you immediately set some kind of monetary goals or milestones for your business?

Check @Andy Black's quotes in his signature:

“Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you.” - Mother Theresa

 

[Nicoknowsbest]

Go and dig for some of @SinisterLex's posts.

What I recently learned from him is to go after the right client, not just any client.

 

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[TomW]

Boom. Right under your nose! (Watch the second video in this post.)

“Never worry about numbers.
Help one person at a time, and always start with the person nearest you.”
(Mother Theresa)​

So long as it's in your down time from working on your mother's site first.

(Producing > Consuming)

Yes! From now on I will start to look from people around me first.

You are right, the website is the top priority now, after that comes the case study and the other things.