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HOT TOPIC Elizabeth Warren: Break up Big Tech

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Rabby

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Not a political statement, just analysis: A politician proposing something like this doesn't have your best interests at heart.

The end result will be some outcome they or their sponsors desire (whoever is threatened by 'big tech', a political group that big tech doesn't make contributions to, or whoever benefits in terms of finance or power).

Some things to consider about "big <insert-industry-here>":
  • If you take the 'subsidies' companies like facebook and google receive from various levels of government, once those companies are at a certain size where they qualify for such things, you can build a staircase to the moon by stacking the $100 bills. It's billions of dollars every year.
  • SEC regulations favor public funding of large companies, while locking small companies out of traditionally the largest source of capital and liquidity (also notably throwing a bone to the banking industry by shoving fundraising in their direction).
  • IP laws are typically amended to favor Goliath market strategies. Look at DMCA, or copyright changes to benefit Disney, as examples.
  • The legal system favors big corporate litigators on IP issues, to the point where a small operator has a Herculean trial before him/her if he is wedged between a cash-rich corporate legal department and all the laws and court rulings that already favor the big dog.
  • Legislatures are just so exhausted by pressure politics, you might wonder if they have any ideas of their own. It's not Bob the Mechanic who's writing new law in most cases, and it's not Susan the Legislator. It's Frank the corporate/industry lobbyist; sorry to break the news.
Is it any wonder "big ___" is so big? The last people I want telling me how to "break up" things that are too big are the people who are facilitating and protecting the big-ness.
 

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Rabby

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Oh, and I saw "free market" in the thousands of pages here. Giants are typically not products of free markets. They're the results of exploiting limitations on freedom in the markets. The more limitations you add, the more there is for them to exploit.

Side note: the word "unfettered" fills me with the urge to kill. "We can't have unfettered 'capitalism,' good heavens!" We don't have it, and the shackles are what screw things up most of the time.
 

rwhyan

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In India the word "internet" is the same as the word "Facebook.”
That’s not true according to my Indian friend except for maybe very rural areas
 
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404profound

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That’s not true according to my Indian friend except for maybe very rural areas
I'd read something before that India heavily favored facebook because of the pricing model around regular internet there. Checking back now, it looks like that strategy failed fabulously, so, my bad.
 

Kak

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Just as the terms of your business. The terms are not equal for both parties. But both parties come to arrangement... so they are fair.
Simple, but so true. The essence of free market exchange is choice. No one has a gun to anyone’s head. No one is forcing terms on anyone.

An agreement is an agreement... Fair is both parties upholding their commitment thereafter.
 

Kak

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Where does the company's loyalty lie? With profits.
Rightfully so.

Not one of these companies would provide us the amazingly valuable products and services they do if it wasn’t rooted in profit seeking.

The entire advancement of civilization beyond a “do everything yourself” economy is rooted in profit.

Would you want to own stock in a company that wasn’t seeking profits? What is wrong with profit? Profit means someone voluntarily gave you money in exchange for something they like better than money. A win for you and a win for them.
 
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MTEE1985

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saying who and what can do business, and at what price.
So go around it.

Netflix is curbing a $256 million revenue stream for Apple by circumventing iTunes billing

Just not sure there is any amicable solution...
Like you said, there is no magical correct answer and I’m probably (definitely) being overly simplistic, but I think Netflix is on the better path by saying FU, we’ll go around you instead of how Spotify is crying “no fair” to mommy and hoping mommy makes things all better. Though given that Apple and Google charge everybody the same for in app purchases and they aren’t singling Spotify out, I would be surprised to see Apple lose on this.

In any event, how do you even punish an Apple with a balance sheet and income statement like they have? A $5,000,000,000 fine like Google got? That’s a borderline rounding error for Apple, talk about scary.
 
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Kak

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So go around it.

Netflix is curbing a $256 million revenue stream for Apple by circumventing iTunes billing



Like you said, there is no magical correct answer and I’m probably (definitely) being overly simplistic, but I think Netflix is on the better path by saying FU, we’ll go around you instead of how Spotify is crying “no fair” to mommy and hoping mommy makes things all better. Though given that Apple and Google charge everybody the same for in app purchases and they aren’t singling Spotify out, I would be surprised to see Apple lose on this.
Right... We forget Netflix, Spotify, Uber all have leverage too. Apple customers would be pissed if these companies were able to convince customers that they don’t have the app functionality they want (and android users do) because Apple was dicking around with the deal.

In a negotiation, party 1 wants the best deal possible for party 1 and party 2 wants the best deal possible for party 2. If there is acceptable overlap between the two... The deal will occur somewhere within that window. If one party decides to be unreasonable, or simply can’t get the terms in that window, the deal won’t happen. Everyone has customers to please pushing it towards the center.
 
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Eric Flathers

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Presidential Candidate Elizabeth Warren (Pocahontas if you're a fan of Trump) wants to break up big tech.

I don't like this politician much less her political orientation (she's a typical "pay your fair share nutjob") but I have to say, I like the idea.

Elizabeth Warren Imagines Big Tech After the Breakup

Incidentally, she posted an ad on Facebook advocating the breakup of Facebook and Facebook promptly removed (censored) the ad, hence, proving her point. FB only later put it back. Did I say recently how much I hate Facebook?

What are your thoughts to the break up idea?

(Please try and keep politics out of it.)
Although I think breaking up big tech will help spur more innovation by making it easier for startups to play in the social media arena. What will probably happen if they do break up a company like Facebook is it will become more profitable.

When they made Standard Oil break up it unlocked more value and now the parts of those companies are worth more than the whole.

Once big companies and brands start spending more of their ad budgets on Facebook that they are now spending on TV, the ad prices will skyrocket and the little guys using FB and IG to advertise their small businesses will get blown out of the water and not be able to compete. I know this comment is a bit off topic but thought important enough to mention.
 

rogue synthetic

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You only had to listen

 

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Roli

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Incidentally, she posted an ad on Facebook advocating the breakup of Facebook and Facebook promptly removed (censored) the ad, hence, proving her point. FB only later put it back.
If someone posted an ad on here for their business forum you too might take it down, and nobody would blame you. I'm surprised Facebook put it back up, I wouldn't have.

If I owned one of these giants I would blow it to bits, burn every building and fire every employee before I let the government take it.
Same.

The reason why I think it is a good idea because these powerful companies have powerful platforms that have the power to influence elections and public opinion
This is nothing new, I was born in the 70s so remember when the only place you could get news from were newspapers and TV companies all owned by about six people. If that isn't an example of political influence and corrupting power, I don't know what is.

I'm pretty sure Amazon and Google have what's called a monopoly and last I checked those were illegal
Nope, a monopoly is a situation whereby nobody is allowed a piece of the pie, nothing is stopping anyone creating their own Amazon or Google.

Google literally provide so unbelievably much value to our lives in exchange for so little money. They are amazing to me and get high praise in my book. Should they be punished for excellence?
Agreed, punishing success seems anti-American (this coming from a Brit).

Amazon only accounted for 44% of e-commerce retail last year.
Lol! Only!

Facebook is free until you choose to make it not free by utilizing their services to try and benefit yourself. Same with Google.
Not so, you pay with your time and metrics, you are their product, that isn't free.

-

For me the whole debacle is strange, it's like the death of the American dream, come here make it big from nothing, but not too big mind or we'll demonise you and steal your profits.

Amazon started from a garage and had people openly mocking it for years, Google started in similar circumstances. Bezos and Page weren't given help from government schills, they simply had great ideas and executed them and in the case of Bezos, simply refused to give up.

I say leave them alone.
 

Maxboost

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Giants are typically not products of free markets. They're the results of exploiting limitations on freedom in the markets. The more limitations you add, the more there is for them to exploit.
The Giants are the ones creating the rules and barriers to entry. Thats the problem!!!

I remember we briefly learned this in business school and a common tactic that oligopolies and monopolies use to stiffle the competition.

An example was MMA. As huge fan, the UFC blocked the Pride Fighting Championship by petitioning the CSAC from barring Pride to do business in the states due to their fight rules being "dangerous". Now this same fight organization is trying to implement some of the same rules as Pride such as hitting a downed opponent. What a joke..
 

MTEE1985

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Not so, you pay with your time and metrics, you are their product, that isn't free.
I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post but you don’t actually believe this about time and metrics do you? The toilet got my time earlier, does that make me its product?

I have no love lost for the people with a severe external locus of control who complain about how much time they spend online like it’s a genetic disease.

The last time I logged into Facebook was 2011 so how do they get my time (besides right now talking about the company) if you don’t use the site, they don’t get your time. If you don’t advertise or purchase through them they don’t get your money. If you do then you’ve entered into a mutually agreeable business transaction.

They probably still get your metrics somehow but if anybody believes they can use the Internet today and not have their data pulled and tracked and sold they might be clinically insane.
 
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Rabby

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The Giants are the ones creating the rules and barriers to entry. Thats the problem!!!

I remember we briefly learned this in business school and a common tactic that oligopolies and monopolies use to stiffle the competition.

An example was MMA. As huge fan, the UFC blocked the Pride Fighting Championship by petitioning the CSAC from barring Pride to do business in the states due to their fight rules being "dangerous". Now this same fight organization is trying to implement some of the same rules as Pride such as hitting a downed opponent. What a joke..
Yes. That's exactly what I object to as well. Government powers are frequently abused, and end up under the influence of the worst abusers. When you see politicians jumping in with their 1 minute messiah snippets, they're not trying to stop the abuse. They're just siding with the blue team abusers, instead of the red team ones.

This is not a new problem at all. The Great Depression was made significantly longer and worse by union lobbies, farm lobbies, etc, that wanted to prop up food prices. They passed the Smoot-Hawley tariff with the express intention of increasing food prices for an already financially distressed population. I have two copies of EE Schattshneider's book chronicling the pressure lobbyists' efforts (because all the other copies have been shredded or exported apparently... why the heck is this book rare?). Later, children in the US actually starved while facilities incinerated pigs because they didn't want cheap pork on the market. Same story arc.

But here's the thing. These 'powers' don't just become powerful first, and then abuse government. They become powers (once they reach noticeable size anyway) by abusing government to gain power over others, squash or devalue or weigh down competitors, or they exploit government rules (made by them or competitors or industry groups) that pay them unreasonable favors. Their economic power is relative - the reason it is so out of balance is, very often, because they are exploiting incentives, laws, or rules that effectively exclude you. Your rights are not documented with the same ink as theirs! This can take the form of encouraging excessive regulations to lock out new market entries, or placing legal limits on number of operators (as taxi companies famously did, and it worked for a while), or simply calling a regulator and getting an upstart competitor shut down or audited. It's usually done with the angelic-sounding stated intent of "helping the people" or "encouraging a robust market." It's the opposite.

Don't expect politicians to come to the rescue of the little folks. They won't... most of them are part of the game. If you want to break monopolies, examine what special rules they are exploiting, what special incentives they are getting, what patent monopolies they're being granted (and with what level of preferential treatment), and then make sure people who are not crooked can do the same things. The monopolies will break themselves then. Unfortunately to do that, you'll have to walk through the fire. Make some friends at think tanks, or start one, or collect a few true believers in government and support their efforts if you have the skills.
 

Roli

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you don’t actually believe this about time and metrics do you? The toilet got my time earlier, does that make me its product?
Hahaha! :-D No. But the toilet doesn't actively seek advertisers to fill erm, ahem, space...

The last time I logged into Facebook was 2011 so how do they get my time (besides right now talking about the company) if you don’t use the site, they don’t get your time.
Exactly, you're not one of their products.

if anybody believes they can use the Internet today and not have their data pulled and tracked and sold they might be clinically insane.
Or own and use a VPN...

... still cracking up about that toilet comment! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

ChrisV

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I don't know. I don;t know that I'm a huge fan of anti-trust actions. What we've been fed is that 'monopolies are bad' etc... but i don't know that that's true. I mean Microsoft was basically a monopoly and the PC revolution did tremendous good for humanity. Google could be considered a monopoly but that's because everyone else sucks. If you want to beat Google, stop sucking. Amazon is soon the be a monopoly. I really don't know because I feel like these companies make our lives better. I'd have to see the proposed effects of such a breakup and if there's any evidence that it would be beneficial.

I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post but you don’t actually believe this about time and metrics do you? The toilet got my time earlier, does that make me its product?

I have no love lost for the people with a severe external locus of control who complain about how much time they spend online like it’s a genetic disease.

The last time I logged into Facebook was 2011 so how do they get my time (besides right now talking about the company) if you don’t use the site, they don’t get your time. If you don’t advertise or purchase through them they don’t get your money. If you do then you’ve entered into a mutually agreeable business transaction.

They probably still get your metrics somehow but if anybody believes they can use the Internet today and not have their data pulled and tracked and sold they might be clinically insane.
I think what he's refering to is the use of your data. These companies use your data to send you targeted ads/ So people argue that 'since it's your data and they're making money off you, you are the product'
 
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Kid

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a)
more regulations = more communism
more communism = more suffer to people

b)
less regulation = more free market
more free market = more suffer to people

a = b
 

ChrisV

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a)
more regulations = more communism
more communism = more suffer to people

b)
less regulation = more free market
more free market = more suffer to people

a = b
This type of overly simplistic black and white thinking is what get us in trouble.
 
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Kak

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a)
more regulations = more communism
more communism = more suffer to people

b)
less regulation = more free market
more free market = more suffer to people

a = b
If the free market bothers you why are you even on an entrepreneur forum?

There is no better system of exchange than one where people are free and willing to exchange.
 

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jcvlds

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This type of overly simplistic black and white thinking is what get us in trouble.
Seriously...

a)
more regulations = more communism
more communism = more suffer to people

b)
less regulation = more free market
more free market = more suffer to people

a = b
Reducing complex subjects to such high level of abstraction like how you stated the above makes it impossible to have any meaning. There are so many underlying factors and intricacies behind pretty much every word you mentioned: ‘regulation’ (in which area, what kind, to what degree, etc), ‘free market’, ‘suffer’ (? what kind of suffering, to what degree, etc), ‘people’ (who?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Kid

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@ChrisV, @Kak ,@jcvlds thank You for responses.

The thing that bothers me is that both ways: wild capitalism and communism
are proved to hurt large groups of average people.

Its not the idea of capitalism or communism that is bad. Its the execution.
 

MTEE1985

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The thing that bothers me is that both ways: wild capitalism and communism
are proved to hurt large groups of average people.
Not sure why the capitalism has to be “wild” and communism doesn’t have an adjective attached.

Anyway, capitalist economy countries: http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/capitalist-countries/

Interesting to note that all the Scandinavian countries that people think are these socialist utopias are actually quite capitalistic as well.

Contrast the list above to the most famous communist/socialist economies of China, Cuba, North Korea and the former Soviet Union and it’s hard even worth a discussion as to which one is a superior option. Capitalism would at least give these people a fighting chance instead of zero chance.
 
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Kak

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The thing that bothers me is that both ways: wild capitalism and communism
are proved to hurt large groups of average people.
What is the proof that capitalism hurts large groups of average people? The reality is quite the contrary.

Quoting my younger self:

There is zero connection between wealth redistribution and the advancement of society. (Which is this middleground you are talking about.)

Very few would disagree that we have a pretty great standard of living in the USA... Possibly the best of the larger countries in the world. That said, my question for you is this... What drove our country to this point? No one in the US needs to go hungry, very very few do. No one in the US works in working conditions like that of just 50 years ago. No one in the US is forced to work long hours. Very few that are truly willing to work are unemployed.

The WORKING CLASS are buying big beautiful homes with very little sacrifice, or risk. They are driving luxurious automobiles and flying on airplanes to go on nice vacations every year. They are playing golf. They are healthier and happier than ever before.

Ask a working class guy from the 1950s what his lifestyle looked like... It was quite different.

Did government do this? HELL No!

The reason for this constant improvement... FREE MARKET Capitalism... Government does not advance society. Evil, greedy, capitalist pigs advance society.

Capitalism begot machinery that reduced human workload.

Capitalism harnessed the energy stored in fuels to further reduce workload.

Capitalism begot railways that spread economies far and wide.

Capitalism begot cars that made capitalist exchange even more efficient within city centers.

Capitalism made air travel affordable for the masses.

Capitalism begot technology that turned us into an information sector economy.

Capitalism creates the value that employs people. Even government indirectly.

Capitalism is virtuous. Win-win, trade-up value exchanges create opportunity for everyone.

All along the way there was a producer that made a killing off of each and every one of these advancements. They deserve it.

What has the government done? Bombs people, jails citizens, blows resources on frivolous endeavors, death marches our soldiers into battle, kills (mostly minority) unborn babies, regulates and creates expensive compliance issues, makes trying to “capitalism” the world forward a living hell and they charge us 40-60 percent of everything we earn for the privilege. For their "help."

All of this said, the facts are there... The money is much better left with us greedy capitalists. Government is where value goes to die.

So build... build the most audacious pile of money you possibly can. Capitalistically exchange your way to the biggest business you possibly can build. Along the way you will provide means for all of your employees and value to your customers and shareholders. The world is better for your efforts...

Uncle Sam is dead weight.
 
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G-Man

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What is the proof that capitalism hurts large groups of average people? The reality is quite the contrary.

Quoting my younger self:

There is zero connection between wealth redistribution and the advancement of society. (Which is this middleground you are talking about.)

Very few would disagree that we have a pretty great standard of living in the USA... Possibly the best of the larger countries in the world. That said, my is this... What drove our country to this point? No one in the US needs to go hungry, very very few do. No one in the US works in working conditions like that of just 50 years ago. No one in the US is forced to work long hours. Very few that are truly willing to work are unemployed.

The WORKING CLASS are buying big beautiful homes with very little sacrifice, or risk. They are driving luxurious automobiles and flying on airplanes to go on nice vacations every year. They are playing golf. They are healthier and happier than ever before.

Ask a working class guy from the 1950s what his lifestyle looked like... It was quite different.

Did government do this? HELL No!

The reason for this constant improvement... FREE MARKET Capitalism... Government does not advance society. Evil, greedy, capitalist pigs advance society.

Capitalism begot machinery that reduced human workload.

Capitalism harnessed the energy stored in fuels to further reduce workload.

Capitalism begot railways that spread economies far and wide.

Capitalism begot cars that made capitalist exchange even more efficient within city centers.

Capitalism made air travel affordable for the masses.

Capitalism begot technology that turned us into an information sector economy.

Capitalism creates the value that employs people. Even government indirectly.

Capitalism is virtuous. Win-win, trade-up value exchanges create opportunity for everyone.

All along the way there was a producer that made a killing off of each and every one of these advancements. They deserve it.

What has the government done? Bombs people, jails citizens, blows resources on frivolous endeavors, death marches our soldiers into battle, kills (mostly minority) unborn babies, regulates and creates expensive compliance issues, makes trying to “capitalism” the world forward a living hell and they charge us 40-60 percent of everything we earn for the privilege.

All of this said, the facts are there... The money is much better left with us greedy capitalists. Government is where value goes to die.

So build... build the most audacious pile of money you possibly can. Capitalistically exchange your way to the biggest business you possibly can build. Along the way you will provide means for all of your employees and value to your customers and shareholders. The world is better for your efforts...
I think I've related this story on the forum before, but this thread seems like a good place to re-iterate. It is the story of one of the first stark moments that made me realize that I didn't belong in the non-profit world anymore.

I was in a meeting where they were talking about "social justice" as it pertains to ethnic minorities. Forget that social justice is tautological. All justice is social. If the world consisted of 1 guy alone on a desert island, there would be no concept of justice, but I digress.

Me the lonely guy in a room of PhD's, and the subject got onto how capitalism doesn't work, and cannot solve complex problems. So, here we are, people from at least 7 different countries, meeting in a single location. We took commercial jets manufactured in the USA, flown with fuel drilled in the middle east, met in a room in a country none of us lived in, in a pre-set office rented from an owner in Europe. We're sitting there typing on devices designed in California, manufactured in China, and sold by distributors in Europe. The room is kept cool by a device called an air conditioner that none of us knows how to make, and installed by a person that none of us can even communicate with because we don't speak the language. One of our colleagues couldn't make it. He's joining us via teleconference from a signal that literally travels to space and then back to earth.

All of this, and these PhDs are sitting around talking about how capitalism can't solve complex problems. I don't know why, but in that one serendipitous moment, the absurdity all somehow hit me at the same time.

I had one foot out the door after that.
 

Kid

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This is very interesting discussion. So thank all for providing their experience and insights.
(Which i guess are more diverse and sound then on so called social media.)

The problem, probably, lays in the extremes.

Extreme capitalism is what Standard Oil did in early days - one one coast where the competition still existed the gallon of gas was at $1. On the other coast where there were none of competitors, gallon of gas was about $7 or $11, at a same cost of production.

You might believe in self-governance of private sector. I don't. 2008 crisis is one of recent examples if you don't want go as far back as to Standard Oil times.

Communism is what China does today. Corruption among local gov is very high. People are invigilated with street cameras and artificial intelligence-based face recognition. Not to mention state of free speech in China.

The regulation based economy ("centrally planned economy") failed every time it was implemented.


The reasons in this (and previous) post are the reason that i can't stand for any of the sides.
 

Kak

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Extreme capitalism is what Standard Oil did in early days - one one coast where the competition still existed the gallon of gas was at $1. On the other coast where there were none of competitors, gallon of gas was about $7 or $11, at a same cost of production.
What was so wrong with Rockefeller? Why was he so bad? Because "people" say he was?

Looking at him from another angle, he almost single handedly put light in the homes of every American and later provided the economy with fuel for their cars. None of which they would have otherwise been able to get at that particular point in time.

The option was fuel or no fuel. Buy or dont buy. Thankfully a lot of people had the option to buy when many didn't.

The gasoline thing is inacurate because he started with lamp oil, gasoline was a byproduct of Kerosene production and didn't enter the picture until the car was invented.

For the sake of argument... Let's say your numbers are true... What's wrong with this anyway? First of all, transportation of product was costlier than production back then. So it is realistic that product literally had to be higher priced on the west coast than the east. High prices don't put competitors out of business, low prices do. Higher margins actually create opportunities for new entrants.

For that to even be an endeavor he took on, there must have been a market willing to pay to have the product transported out there, despite the higher pricing. Being the good businessman he was, he figured out what it took to make sense to deliver product there. They got fuel when they would have had nothing. That doesn't sound so bad does it?

Rockefeller also employed massive amounts of people that would have otherwise not been working.

There are two sides to every coin. Don't believe everything you hear. It is popular to demonize every businessman. As long as people have freedom of choice, there is nothing ever wrong with a business making large profits.

How could the government have "fixed" this "problem?" The only answer involves tying a lead weight to economic progress.

You might believe in self-governance of private sector. I don't. 2008 crisis is one of recent examples if you don't want go as far back as to Standard Oil times.
The 2008 crisis was indirectly the fault of government policy designed to provide home loans to people that were not qualified for them.

When they legislate what is considered an acceptable loan and they insure the bank against default by buying the loans, banks will listen and send loans up the pipeline. This made homes more valuable on paper and the cycle repeats until the music stops.

Mortgage backed securities? Well people should have done more research at a time politically in our country when people were regularly buying homes they couldn't afford.

"2008" was not a failure of capitalism. It was capitalism correcting a government created problem after the music stopped.
 
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Maxboost

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What was so wrong with Rockefeller? Why was he so bad? Because stupid people say he was?
He was the second richest man in the history of the world right behind Genghis Khan (nothing wrong with that) estimated worth was over 300 billion dollars. His wealth dwarfed Bezo, Gates and everyone on the Forbes list today.

With his wealth, he incredible influence which you can argue was DESTRUCTIVE to society.
  • squashed the bio fuel industry (global warming anyone? oil spills?)
  • Had a hand in destroying the electric car
  • had a hand in the creation of the federal reserve (uh oh libertarians would hate that!)
  • Took control of the education system at the time, controlled information and history, imagine controlling the internet

With his $300 billion dollar net worth, he could have EASILY bought EVERY industry up at the time or petitioned the government to go to war with oil rich nations to control the supply of oil like what Debeers does with Diamonds (but hey free markets and shareholder value right?)

Not allowing a competitive market to function properly can set back human progress and technology, for example look at Thomas Edison vs Nicola Tesla with the AC vs DC current.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QstrRR031XE


Edison, with his wealth, set back human progress as we look back on how important AC current is!

You're obviously not going to watch it since you are unwilling to change your mind but here you go. Feel free to point out any factual errors


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osTbkdZAnBo&t=251s


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySnk-f2ThpE
 

Kak

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He was the second richest man in the history of the world right behind Genghis Khan (nothing wrong with that) estimated worth was over 300 billion dollars. His wealth dwarfed Bezo, Gates and everyone on the Forbes list today.

With his wealth, he incredible influence which you can argue was DESTRUCTIVE to society.
  • squashed the bio fuel industry (global warming anyone? oil spills?)
  • Had a hand in destroying the electric car
  • had a hand in the creation of the federal reserve (uh oh libertarians would hate that!)
  • Took control of the education system at the time, controlled information and history, imagine controlling the internet

With his $300 billion dollar net worth, he could have EASILY bought EVERY industry up at the time or petitioned the government to go to war with oil rich nations to control the supply of oil like what Debeers does with Diamonds (but hey free markets and shareholder value right?)

Not allowing a competitive market to function properly can set back human progress and technology, for example look at Thomas Edison vs Nicola Tesla with the AC vs DC current.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QstrRR031XE


Edison, with his wealth, set back human progress as we look back on how important AC current is!

You're obviously not going to watch it since you are unwilling to change your mind but here you go. Feel free to point out any factual errors


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osTbkdZAnBo&t=251s


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySnk-f2ThpE
You are so unbelievably stupid, yet you think this mess is intellegence. Wow.

JDR died in 1937. Electricity was barely powering light bulbs... Electric cars and biofuel weren't even words yet.

This is actually rather funny. Enjoy my ignore list.
 
Last edited:

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