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Does everyone struggle to learn code?

GIlman

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It’s like anything in life, there are no absolutes to any question you ask. Some people will find it really easy and some incredibly hard. Coding is the one thing in life that always came super easy to me. I taught myself to code Basic at 6, C at 10, and have learned other languages usually with less than 20-40 hours of practice to be proficient enough.

From talking to others, I don’t think this is typical. For whatever reason for me that was just my one gift in life.

But, then there are tons of things a lot of people pick up easily that I really struggle with. I’m not the most social person, and for example one on one sales has always been extremely difficult for me. I don’t read people that well, and that creates a lot of difficulty for me in various scenarios. But...even though I struggle with this, I'm am still continuously working to develop these skills as much as possible for me.

The key is to find your aptitudes and play to your strengths. I’ve done extremely well for myself in business over the years by focusing on the things that I can do well, find work arounds for the things that I can’t do well, and on occasion getting others to do the things that I simply don’t do well and can’t find a work around.
 

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Ubu_roi

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Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?
Well, I recommend two routes that I particularly like:

- if you want to create a simple back-end for JQuery, have a look at (Google) Firebase: it can serve JSON content with little or no code at all, and can easily deal with CRUD operations; it will also remove most publishing/system related issues;

- if you need a more complex back-end, I would use the latest version of (Microsoft) .net core with C# to create a web api. The learning curve will be tougher, but the reward will pay off in the long term.

Or, you could try both, one after the other.

A small warning though: before this causes some angry comments because "Java is better than C#", or "Python is the only Way to the Future", or "PHP always wins because Wordpress is using it", up to "Microsoft and/or Google are evil": everyone of us has their own favourite technologies. Yours may be different than mine, and I'm totally OK with that ;-)
 

Never1

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A small warning though: before this causes some angry comments because "Java is better than C#", or "Python is the only Way to the Future", or "PHP always wins because Wordpress is using it", up to "Microsoft and/or Google are evil": everyone of us has their own favourite technologies. Yours may be different than mine, and I'm totally OK with that ;-)
I'm a complete novice, but I suppose the requirements for the application would likely dictate what languages and framework to use, for current iterations and future 2.0+ versions of the finished product? This would render the "which is best" comment war pointless. Case by case subjectivity above everything.
 

UK.SteRioN

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Simply put coding isn't for everyone it requires aptitude the same as learning foreign languages

If you're doing okay and you've got to a module that's hard that's different. Stick at it, try a different tutorial sometimes the key is in the way you learn
 

GoodluckChuck

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Haha I'm literally dealing with the same feeling.

I'm 2.5 months into daily Python practice starting from almost no coding knowledge.

I was cruising through courses until I got into an intermediate data science course. All of a sudden the code stopped making sense.

I realized I didn't have enough base knowledge to build on yet so I went back to a more beginner course and am working through it. Thankfully it makes sense again.

Coding is one of those things that makes it really clear when you don't know what's going on. It's actually a good thing.

I've learned a lot of other skills where it wasn't so easy to know why I wasn't successful. With coding it's obvious when I can't understand a syntax that I need to figure out what the hell I'm reading.

It's def nice to hear others expressing the same thing. It cements in my mind that it's natural to struggle with this just like learning any other language.
 

Ubu_roi

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I'm a complete novice, but I suppose the requirements for the application would likely dictate what languages and framework to use, for current iterations and future 2.0+ versions of the finished product? This would render the "which is best" comment war pointless. Case by case subjectivity above everything.
It's not (always) that simple: yes, sometimes the requirements dictate the language and framework: for example if someone asks you to create a Wordpress plugin, you definitely have to stick to php.

But there's a lot of overlap for the most common scenarios. For example if somebody asks you to create a web application for an event (enroll, see the program, download speaker's materials etc.) you could choose among dozens of languages, frameworks, and architectural patterns.

Answering @Brewmacker question on an alternative route to php, I suggested Firebase and .net Core, which I think are the "best" tools to create full stack applications: one very easy, the second very complete. And by "best" I mean those that can create a reliable and maintainable software in less time than their alternatives.
 

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@Brewmacker ASP.NET. The best and fastest websites in the world run on .NET. Yes PHP can make great websites too, but I see zero reason to bother with it if you have a choice. Plus there's a gigantic developer base across the world for help and hire.

ASP.NET can make any complexity of backend and make MVC or whatever variant desired for a clean secure frontend.
 

André Casal

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I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code? I feel really dumb right now, and not sure if I should just look up the solution and skip ahead.
Being a computer science tutor for more than 14 years I can tell you with certainty that if you don't understand something, it's not because you're dumb, it's because whoever's teaching it doesn't understand it well enough to explain it simply and clearly.

Do you want to make your doubt explicit so I can help?

I'm doing a full course on HTML, CSS and JS after I'm done creating the VS Code course btw.
 
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Thanks for all your input! :smile2:

I ended up watching a tutorial that explained how to create the project. It's the first time I had to do that, and hopefully the last. It's weird because I understood all the lessons, but the project seemed very confusing.

I'm going to keep learning JavaScript.
 

Real Deal Denver

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Being a computer science tutor for more than 14 years I can tell you with certainty that if you don't understand something, it's not because you're dumb, it's because whoever's teaching it doesn't understand it well enough to explain it simply and clearly.

Do you want to make your doubt explicit so I can help?

I'm doing a full course on HTML, CSS and JS after I'm done creating the VS Code course btw.
I am in the process of learning HTML and CSS so I can build great websites. Do I need JS? What would you recommend to someone that wants to have total control over websites, but doesn't want to take it as far as being a coder that builds things from scratch?
 

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AustinS28

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I’m employed as a software engineer and I still can look back every 3/6/12 months and see how much I’ve learned and still need to learn.

You solve one challenge and something harder comes along.

The fundamentals of OOP can be a little tough to grasp at first, but once you get it, everything makes sense.
 

AustinS28

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I am in the process of learning HTML and CSS so I can build great websites. Do I need JS? What would you recommend to someone that wants to have total control over websites, but doesn't want to take it as far as being a coder that builds things from scratch?
If you want to build a website from scratch that isn’t a static page, yes JavaScript is part of the process.
 

Real Deal Denver

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If you want to build a website from scratch that isn’t a static page, yes JavaScript is part of the process.
Thanks. Because I don't know how to phrase this question, let me use an analogy.

I want to be a great mechanic working on cars - able to fix anything - but I want to limit myself to replacing parts and/or repairing cars - not being a machinist and making parts from scratch. I want to be an Ace mechanic. Able to even build custom cars by combining already existing parts, such as making a '36 Ford into a hot rod with a modern engine, tranny, AC, power steering, etc. But I sure don't want to BUILD a tranny from scratch. I want to be able to know which tranny to use and how to modify it to make it fit and work. Pretty high skill level - but I'm using existing parts. Make sense?

The same with websites. I use templates - I don't want to spend the time to build one from scratch when there are so many great ones already available. I also want to be able to incorporate a database, say to manage a membership where people sign in - or have a database of products. Something a lot more than just a website for only viewing. I want to be able to manage an interactive website. I want to be able to know how to assemble the pieces, and custom modify them - but NOT build them from scratch.

Another good example is that I want to be able to search, install, and configure an app to make a website very functional. Coders, on the other hand, would want to BUILD the app. I don't want to know how to build the app, so I don't want to be a coder, but I do need some coding to integrate it and make it work. Every plugin I've used in Wordpress has had to have CSS added to make it work. I don't want to know CSS, but I'm forced to learn it because damn apps - which I pay a lot of money for because I use the full-featured pro ones - don't work. Case in point - I just had to modify the PHP file of one slider app because it only allowed a 10 second time for each slide. Who in their right mind decides to put a 10 second time limit on something? The modification stopped the app for a set time period, then restarted it, so it could last however long I wanted it to. Idiots...

Now I hope you know the skill level I want to obtain. What do I need to know beyond HTML and CSS to pretty much be able to handle 90% of what customers may want if I am to build, modify, and maintain sites for them? Thanks~
 

André Casal

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Thanks. Because I don't know how to phrase this question, let me use an analogy.

I want to be a great mechanic working on cars - able to fix anything - but I want to limit myself to replacing parts and/or repairing cars - not being a machinist and making parts from scratch. I want to be an Ace mechanic. Able to even build custom cars by combining already existing parts, such as making a '36 Ford into a hot rod with a modern engine, tranny, AC, power steering, etc. But I sure don't want to BUILD a tranny from scratch. I want to be able to know which tranny to use and how to modify it to make it fit and work. Pretty high skill level - but I'm using existing parts. Make sense?

The same with websites. I use templates - I don't want to spend the time to build one from scratch when there are so many great ones already available. I also want to be able to incorporate a database, say to manage a membership where people sign in - or have a database of products. Something a lot more than just a website for only viewing. I want to be able to manage an interactive website. I want to be able to know how to assemble the pieces, and custom modify them - but NOT build them from scratch.

Another good example is that I want to be able to search, install, and configure an app to make a website very functional. Coders, on the other hand, would want to BUILD the app. I don't want to know how to build the app, so I don't want to be a coder, but I do need some coding to integrate it and make it work. Every plugin I've used in Wordpress has had to have CSS added to make it work. I don't want to know CSS, but I'm forced to learn it because damn apps - which I pay a lot of money for because I use the full-featured pro ones - don't work. Case in point - I just had to modify the PHP file of one slider app because it only allowed a 10 second time for each slide. Who in their right mind decides to put a 10 second time limit on something? The modification stopped the app for a set time period, then restarted it, so it could last however long I wanted it to. Idiots...

Now I hope you know the skill level I want to obtain. What do I need to know beyond HTML and CSS to pretty much be able to handle 90% of what customers may want if I am to build, modify, and maintain sites for them? Thanks~
If you want to handle whatever a customer throws at you, you don't need to know anything. Just use Just-In-Time learning. This is a viable path if you don't mind putting in the hours of required study. My personal experience tells me this is a really bad professional path to take because you'll become a jack of all trades but master of none. And the money won't come as much as you'd like. My advice is that you invert the equation and ask yourself which technology you want to master. If you become a master of a particular language, technology or technology stack you can charge much higher prices for your work at a small fraction of your time. The hard part is acquiring a high-income skill. The rest is easy.
 

Bekit

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I think this is a great article at describing the stages of learning to code....
 

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Coding is not just about intelligence. Being very smart helps, but what's way more important is patience, understanding the problem solving process (within algorithms and scripts), and knowing when to use what tool. You can achieve these things with consistent effort. Codecademy kinda sucks, I would recommend doing freecodecamp then building your first small app.
 

404profound

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:rofl: @Tourmaline @Ubu_roi - Agreed PHP is a f'ing nightmare. I am learning it in combo with Jquery for a month now, and it feels like I am running in deep water.

Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?
If programming had a perineum it would be PHP. Literally the taint, the grundle if you will. JQuery isn't much better. Today there is no need for either, for front end learn Vue or, if you're a masochist, React. Backend would say Node or Python (personal bias). But for the love of God, not PHP.
 

LittleWolfie

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I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code?
Nope,in fact most people in my class were suprised I had never learnt code before.

I struggle to understand emotions and context though, we all have our strengths and weakness
 

Phylosopha

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It’s like anything in life, there are no absolutes to any question you ask. Some people will find it really easy and some incredibly hard. Coding is the one thing in life that always came super easy to me. I taught myself to code Basic at 6, C at 10, and have learned other languages usually with less than 20-40 hours of practice to be proficient enough.

From talking to others, I don’t think this is typical. For whatever reason for me that was just my one gift in life.

But, then there are tons of things a lot of people pick up easily that I really struggle with. I’m not the most social person, and for example one on one sales has always been extremely difficult for me. I don’t read people that well, and that creates a lot of difficulty for me in various scenarios. But...even though I struggle with this, I'm am still continuously working to develop these skills as much as possible for me.

The key is to find your aptitudes and play to your strengths. I’ve done extremely well for myself in business over the years by focusing on the things that I can do well, find work arounds for the things that I can’t do well, and on occasion getting others to do the things that I simply don’t do well and can’t find a work around.
Every master was once a disaster my brother
 

S.Y.

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Haha I'm literally dealing with the same feeling.

I'm 2.5 months into daily Python practice starting from almost no coding knowledge.

I was cruising through courses until I got into an intermediate data science course. All of a sudden the code stopped making sense.

I realized I didn't have enough base knowledge to build on yet so I went back to a more beginner course and am working through it. Thankfully it makes sense again.
Learning Python for data science as well.

Something that worked for me: dont spend too much time on the course. You will understand faster on real application.

What I do now is to look for jobs posting on upwork & using it as practice. Have learned much more on EDA & visualization.

On the coding side, am doing alright. I think for what I am learning code for, real practice makes it much more easier to grasp.
 

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Remiremi

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In a nutshell :
Yes it's hard, keep practicing.

P. S. : code has an exponential learning curve, you can start and only observing tiny progress for several months to a year, then boom, it clicks. Then you will keep getting noticeably better and better every hour you spend grinding the skill.
 

OlivierMo

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It can be challenging for complex topics. Object oriented programming is usually when a lot of people hit some kind of roadblock. It requires abstract thinking, which some people are not good at.

I was a trainer in programming and I had to use very concrete example to showcase object oriented programming.

You'll eventually get there. You just have to train your brain to think in terms of reuse and abstraction.

To help you, every time you start reusing similar code, you may want to create a function. If you start seeing that that function belongs to something greater and could rely on other internal functions and that various areas of your code could use all that stuff you may start thinking in terms of creating an object.

Another way to think of this is by thinking of your data at a high level. Products, customers, orders, etc... They are all actual world things that can be translated into code. Once you're used to translating actual world entities into code, you'll start making objects to encapsulate other reusable pieces of logic.

JS isn't the best for OO. But you could always use Typescript and convert your code. It's really good for OO programming.


I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code? I feel really dumb right now, and not sure if I should just look up the solution and skip ahead.
 

OlivierMo

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:rofl: @Tourmaline @Ubu_roi - Agreed PHP is a f'ing nightmare. I am learning it in combo with Jquery for a month now, and it feels like I am running in deep water.

Can you recommend an alternative more efficient route, other than PHP, for full-stack development?
PHP is a fantastic language. Problem is: it's like freedom. If you use it the wrong way it can turn to shit pretty quickly. Usually people who criticize PHP are people who are not disciplined enough to keep things clean.
 

Solais

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There are 2 types of brains, in a nutshell - brains that make "deep connections" and brains that make "wide connections."

People who are capable of making "deep connections" generally find coding very easy and can more easily master technical work. I belong in this category (the most extreme example are people with some autism spectrum disorder, a condition I don't have, thankfully).

People who are capable of making "wide connections" develop a variety of interests and talents and are more sociable, but not as skilled at doing "deep work." You might belong in this category if coding doesn't come to you naturally.

If coding is difficult for you, consider doing some more socially engaging work as part of your business. It doesn't matter how your brain is structured, there are suitable businesses for both groups.

Just like how some people are naturally better at math...there's nothing you can do about it. Innate talent is real - it means some people improve or learn certain subjects much more quickly than others. (Though I agree "passion is bullshit")
 

AlexCornila

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I'm learning JavaScript on Codecademy, and so far I've been understanding most of it. However, I'm currently completely lost on an Advanced Objects project.

Does everyone struggle to learn code? I feel really dumb right now, and not sure if I should just look up the solution and skip ahead.
Keep chipping at it you’ll get it eventually. JavaScript is on the easy side, In undergrad college CS profs were not even considering JavaScript a real programming language but might be a good start depending on what are you trying to achieve. Good thing you are not starting with the beast meaning with C++, it was my first language in college with no prior coding experience, I failed miserably actually first time I dropped the class second time got a D; it require the 3rd try to get an A. I did it eventually get it, doing my ms now in computer hardware arhitecture and using C++ daily. Keep hustling work at it daily and you’ll get it.
 

LittleWolfie

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It can be challenging for complex topics. Object oriented programming is usually when a lot of people hit some kind of roadblock. It requires abstract thinking, which some people are not good at.

JS isn't the best for OO. But you could always use Typescript and convert your code. It's really good for OO programming.
Of course few companies/products require OO code.

I like to think as imperative as automatic transmission car and oo as manual transmission.

Does it matter to your delivery business if your unable to drive manual?
 

Black Wolf

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I'm interested in creating an app so I am watching pluralsight videos on xamarin at the moment.

Beyond the complex visual studio setup the realisation I'll have to learn c# brings me little joy.

Means to an end though.
 

mshiddensecret

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Don't be fooled. Coding isn't easy for anyone. And this is coming from someone who studied eng at a top 30 college globally and done internships at the big tech companies (i.e. GOOG, FB, AMZN, MSFT).

What matters most is really just being persistence. Keep testing and testing until you can hack something working. Refer to CS50 on youtube for good tutorial
 

tylerwilkinson

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Beyond the complex visual studio setup
Development environments have come LIGHTYEARS since I first learned “hello world” in high school (ish?). But with that amazing power comes obnoxious setup. At least for me, learning the language isn’t usually the main source of discouragement! It’s the damn IDE!

Disclaimer: again, professionally I’m a mechanic, not a software developer.
 

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