Dealing with customers who don't wanna pay you

[Ninjakid]

So I have a side-gig where I write essays/proposals and other things for people. I find it's been an okay way to make some extra income.

I got this one new client a few days ago who's been kind of difficult and demanding since the beginning. I agreed to write an essay for this person for a modest price of $80, because it was short and I figured wouldn't take a ton of time.

Now bear in mind, I always make sure my clients are satisfied with their work. And I always tell them that if they want anything changed I'll do it for them after free of charge. I have an extremely good reputation among my clients and many of them recommend me to others.

I sent the essay to this person, and they said it wasn't done well, and was full of spelling mistakes and incomplete sentences, and the references weren't done properly. They said they wouldn't pay me until it was done properly. I looked it over and it had no spelling or grammatical mistakes, and they references were acceptable to regular standard; but I considered that maybe their professor had different requirements. So I asked the person to highlight the spelling and grammar mistakes and tell me what I could fix. They then changed their story and said that it just didn't have enough depth.

Adding to that, they said they were going to lower the price, and weren't gonna pay me the full amount. So I was getting annoyed at this point because now I'm thinking this person is trying to rip me off. It's even more shady because this person didn't even give me their name nor an actual way to contact them. I've constantly asked this person what exactly is wrong with the essay, and they give me a vague runaround answer.

I'm really considering just telling this person to screw off and deal with it on their own, because at this point, the money isn't important to me anymore. At the same time, I don't want to tarnish my reputation by leaving someone unsatisfied with my work. In business I understand you're supposed to listen to your customer, but this person isn't telling me what they want and is only bitching.

What do you guys think? How should I deal with this?

 

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[ChickenHawk]

My best friend dated a cheap sidewalking turd. Whenever he went into a restaurant, he found fault, especially when it was his turn to pay. Basically, he was broke, had expensive tastes, but didn't want to pay full price -- so he nitpicked everything to death, looking for a discount or a free meal.

I suspect your customer is trying a similar approach. I don't think this person will ever be pleased, and I don't think they'll ever pay you full price, if at all. I'd suggest that you terminate him as your customer in the most professional way you can. The only real bummer is that he's already received his service -- much like that cheap dude, referenced above, who managed to gobble down the food, regardless that it was unsatisfactory in some vague way.

 

[Ninjakid]

My best friend dated a cheap sidewalking turd. Whenever he went into a restaurant, he found fault, especially when it was his turn to pay. Basically, he was broke, had expensive tastes, but didn't want to pay full price -- so he nitpicked everything to death, looking for a discount or a free meal.

I suspect your customer is trying a similar approach. I don't think this person will ever be pleased, and I don't think they'll ever pay you full price, if at all. I'd suggest that you terminate him as your customer in the most professional way you can. The only real bummer is that he's already received his service -- much like that cheap dude, referenced above, who managed to gobble down the food, regardless that it was unsatisfactory in some vague way.

I think you're right about that. I mean this person won't get a better essay written for that price from anyone else. They just won't. I'm very sure this is their method of "haggling". I'll just take it as a lesson learned. I have a clear conscious in this case; can't say the same for the other person. In the future, I'll maybe put a better system in place, like maybe requiring an initial down payment or something.

 

[loop101]

Tell him if he doesn't pay, you will publicly post it as an example of your essay writing service.

 

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[IceCreamKid]

There are times when you NEED to fire your customer. It is possible to do it without him getting angry. Do it with grace, my friend. Grace.

I can't remember where I read this quote, but it went something like this: "Steal my money and you are forgiven. Steal my time and you are my mortal enemy."

There are 24 hours a day. We gotta use it on high leverage activities. Fire the bad customers so you can focus on acquiring good ones that you can charge a premium to.

There are many reasons why you want premium customers:

• higher profit margins
• FAR less picky
  
• they make decisions faster
• they don't let a deal drag on forever
• they're more likely to be reliable when good communication is needed

All of my deals with customers require 20% down payment. This weeds out a lot of the douchebags, but even with 20% down some still get through. Most of my biz is now B2B because I got tired of dealing with picky people.

 

[Ninjakid]

Tell him if he doesn't pay, you will publicly post it as an example of your essay writing service.

I was actually considering that. I reluctantly agreed on a lower price because I figured it's better to get something from this person than nothing. But I took that thought back because this person wants to meet me again, and I don't feel like spending any more time on this bitchy customer. Like @IceCreamKid said, I should instead use my time to get better customers. At this point the money's not so important, it's the fact that this person is wasting my time.

There are times when you NEED to fire your customer. It is possible to do it without him getting angry. Do it with grace, my friend. Grace.

I can't remember where I read this quote, but it went something like this: "Steal my money and you are forgiven. Steal my time and you are my mortal enemy."

There are 24 hours a day. We gotta use it on high leverage activities. Fire the bad customers so you can focus on acquiring good ones that you can charge a premium to.

There are many reasons why you want premium customers:

• higher profit margins
• FAR less picky
  
• they make decisions faster
• they don't let a deal drag on forever
• they're more likely to be reliable when good communication is needed

All of my deals with customers require 20% down payment. This weeds out a lot of the douchebags, but even with 20% down some still get through. Most of my biz is now B2B because I got tired of dealing with picky people.

That's a great quote and a great concept. I should focus on appealing to the premium customers rather than trying to make every losers happy. I'll tell this person politely so that I don't have to feel guilty over it.

 

[Andy Black]

Another way to look at it is to use that first purchase as a test. You are testing the new potential customer, and they are testing you.

They failed, and it only cost you $80 to find out they aren't someone you want as a long term customer.

 

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[Ninjakid]

Another way to look at it is to use that first purchase as a test. You are testing the new potential customer, and they are testing you.

They failed, and it only cost you $80 to find out they aren't someone you want as a long term customer.

Exactly man! It's like a lesson that I paid only $80 for AND got firsthand experience.
To be honest, I could've squeezed out some dollars from this person, but I'm not. I sent the person an email saying that I'm concluding my business with them, and to not contact me for future proposals. That way, I don't have to feel like this person paid me out of guilt, and I have my dignity and honour. I provided my service, performed honestly, I chose to cut the person off.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Not sure where you get clients, but depending on the site you may be able to add extra protection.

Making sure clients are a good match for you really helps a lot.

If they have the "I'm the employer, you're the employee" mentality, then I'm done before it starts. We're both people. People who need things, and living in a shared environment.

Your time is valuable. If they don't acknowledge, then stop giving them your time. Even if you get bad feedback, it won't matter in the long run, because you're doing the right thing.

The client's attitude shows the path he's on.

In some circles there's a name for this. Psychic Vampires. People who suck your energy, and offer nothing in return. These aren't people you want in your life.

Any business is about mutual exchange. Energy for energy, time for money, personality for relationships etc. You both should benefit in a fair exchange.

 

[Ninjakid]

Not sure where you get clients, but depending on the site you may be able to add extra protection.

Making sure clients are a good match for you really helps a lot.

If they have the "I'm the employer, you're the employee" mentality, then I'm done before it starts. We're both people. People who need things, and living in a shared environment.

Your time is valuable. If they don't acknowledge, then stop giving them your time. Even if you get bad feedback, it won't matter in the long run, because you're doing the right thing.

The client's attitude shows the path he's on.

In some circles there's a name for this. Psychic Vampires. People who suck your energy, and offer nothing in return. These aren't people you want in your life.

Any business is about mutual exchange. Energy for energy, time for money, personality for relationships etc. You both should benefit in a fair exchange.

This particular person come to me via Craigslist. I find CL usually has a mist of sketchiness because not everyone is professional.

And you're totally right. Rather than label someone as an employee or employer, one should just respect the fact that everyone is a person. This whole MBA style thinking is a poison to society.

I had friends like that. They were just a drain on me. Every time I had a creative idea, they would just shoot it down. Or they would never want to go out of their way to do something for someone, even if that person was a friend. I don't have those kinds of people as friends anymore, and I've learned to not take them on as clients either.

 

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[Mattie]

I'm really considering just telling this person to screw off and deal with it on their own, because at this point, the money isn't important to me anymore. At the same time, I don't want to tarnish my reputation by leaving someone unsatisfied with my work. In business I understand you're supposed to listen to your customer, but this person isn't telling me what they want and is only bitching.

I run into people like this all the time. There is certain portion of customers that just want free! They'll bad mouth you regardless, because they feel entitled the free world. This is more there issue then yours. A good point to make is being paid before service. Otherwise they just have the writing, and also don't have to pay you. Not everyone is honest and in it for themselves what they can get free.

I would just say it they are not satisfied with your work to find someone that fits them much better to what they're searching for. And thank them for the opportunity, but you don't feel you can meet their requirements. If you've already tried to correct the situation, there are just people that are perfectionists as well, and nothing wrong with telling them, you've give it your best shot, so maybe someone else is better qualified for what they desire. And take note of the way they contacted you. You must have a name or email or something. If you see their name again or something similar avoid them. lol I know that doesn't sound good, but if you didn't please them the first time around, it's not going to get any better, and they'll keep coming back for more. Been that and done that, polite, gave it to them free to satisfy them, and then they want more. So, it's basically setting your boundaries and being honest, and if they keep bothering you then avoid them, because they just want free. You can't please everyone. And you can't bend over backwards for someone that is a perfectionist because you'll never have it right in the first place. lol

 

[Mattie]

MBA style thinking is a poison to society.

Ha Ha...the instructor I met that has helped me...has the same idea from teaching and tells me not to go there. MBA because they teach poor writers, and destroy creativity, and writers aren't learning the skills they need to be effective.

 

[FastNAwesome]

I'm really considering just telling this person to screw off and deal with it on their own, because at this point, the money isn't important to me anymore.

If you keep accepting cheap gigs, soon enough you'll discover it leads you to this feeling almost every time. You end up being at loss - losing time, putting up with BS and infinite requests, to the point where you'd love to pay them the same amount just to get them off your back.

Ideal solution is - you need to raise your prices. It filters out most such customers, and leaves you dealing with serious people, whom you'd love to see as repeat customers, who will be more satisfied, more likely to recommend you, and simply cooler.

If you need $80 for the sake of $80 - go earn it with manual labor or something. It will be much faster, easier, and it's good for the body

For future works, set a minimal price, and below that price you simply don't even want to hear what's the gig about. You don't do it and you don't care.

You should also request part of the payment in advance. Filters out even more bad customers.

For current situation, yes, you can do as you suggested.

Or you can do it in a polite way, and simply apologize that the writing is not up to their standards, that you can't do better and they don't need to pay you.

If suddenly they turn all nice, and ask you to continue the work, don't buy into it.
They're not keeping their word, they're haggling after the deal is made, and disrespecting you.

 

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[Ninjakid]

Ha Ha...the instructor I met that has helped me...has the same idea from teaching and tells me not to go there. MBA because they teach poor writers, and destroy creativity, and writers aren't learning the skills they need to be effective.

I think many of the ideas taught in business schools are outdated, just as public school systems in North America(especially America) are outdated and a throwback to the Industrial Revolution. People adopt this administrative, bean-counting mentality and see employees and clients as numbers; not even as real people. Creativity and brilliance is suppressed, while droneness and zombification is encouraged.

I'm not anti-business school, as I think there are valuable thinks to be learned there. But some people go into the system and come out as little more than bio-matter constructed caricatures with automated voice-systems.

If you keep accepting cheap gigs, soon enough you'll discover it leads you to this feeling almost every time. You end up being at loss - losing time, putting up with BS and infinite requests, to the point where you'd love to pay them the same amount just to get them off your back.

Ideal solution is - you need to raise your prices. It filters out most such customers, and leaves you dealing with serious people, whom you'd love to see as repeat customers, who will be more satisfied, more likely to recommend you, and simply cooler.

If you need $80 for the sake of $80 - go earn it with manual labor or something. It will be much faster, easier, and it's good for the body

For future works, set a minimal price, and below that price you simply don't even want to hear what's the gig about. You don't do it and you don't care.

You should also request part of the payment in advance. Filters out even more bad customers.

For current situation, yes, you can do as you suggested.

Or you can do it in a polite way, and simply apologize that the writing is not up to their standards, that you can't do better and they don't need to pay you.

If suddenly they turn all nice, and ask you to continue the work, don't buy into it.
They're not keeping their word, they're haggling after the deal is made, and disrespecting you.

You're right. I'm going to be raising my prices actually. This way I can attract a better class of clients. I'm also distancing myself from using CL, because there's too many scumbags there.

Well luckily for me I've got two other gigs lined up with decent clients.

The person actually did turn all nice when I told them I didn't think I would do anymore work for them haha.I politely told the person off. They didn't get off easily though. I told them that they failed to hold up their end of the agreement and to never contact me for any future proposals. I was just happy to finally have this person out of my hair for good.

 

[Andy Black]

The person actually did turn all nice when I told them I didn't think I would do anymore work for them haha.I politely told the person off. They didn't get off easily though. I told them that they failed to hold up their end of the agreement and to never contact me for any future proposals. I was just happy to finally have this person out of my hair for good.

Good for you.

I can't remember which podcast I listened to, but there was a business owner who took great glee in giving full refunds to PITA clients when saying they weren't a good fit. He enjoyed their incredulous responses.

 

[Ninjakid]

Good for you.

I can't remember which podcast I listened to, but there was a business owner who took great glee in giving full refunds to PITA clients when saying they weren't a good fit. He enjoyed their incredulous responses.

Sometimes it's fun to be the one person smiling when everyone else is crying

 

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[ChrisJTurner]

My dad always used to say
"If you borrow someone £20 and you dont see them again, it was probably worth it"

Drop em, tell them you wont do anything else for them

 

[pickeringmt]

So I have a side-gig where I write essays/proposals and other things for people. I find it's been an okay way to make some extra income.

I got this one new client a few days ago who's been kind of difficult and demanding since the beginning. I agreed to write an essay for this person for a modest price of $80, because it was short and I figured wouldn't take a ton of time.

Now bear in mind, I always make sure my clients are satisfied with their work. And I always tell them that if they want anything changed I'll do it for them after free of charge. I have an extremely good reputation among my clients and many of them recommend me to others.

I sent the essay to this person, and they said it wasn't done well, and was full of spelling mistakes and incomplete sentences, and the references weren't done properly. They said they wouldn't pay me until it was done properly. I looked it over and it had no spelling or grammatical mistakes, and they references were acceptable to regular standard; but I considered that maybe their professor had different requirements. So I asked the person to highlight the spelling and grammar mistakes and tell me what I could fix. They then changed their story and said that it just didn't have enough depth.

Adding to that, they said they were going to lower the price, and weren't gonna pay me the full amount. So I was getting annoyed at this point because now I'm thinking this person is trying to rip me off. It's even more shady because this person didn't even give me their name nor an actual way to contact them. I've constantly asked this person what exactly is wrong with the essay, and they give me a vague runaround answer.

I'm really considering just telling this person to screw off and deal with it on their own, because at this point, the money isn't important to me anymore. At the same time, I don't want to tarnish my reputation by leaving someone unsatisfied with my work. In business I understand you're supposed to listen to your customer, but this person isn't telling me what they want and is only bitching.

What do you guys think? How should I deal with this?

I think that this is fundamentally a problem with knowing who your ideal customer really is.

This specific scenario is most likely a symptom of going too broad.

If you can tighten your focus to a point where the value of your service is undeniable, you will never deal with this again.

I'd just refund the money and move on - lesson learned. There will always be people like this, just distance yourself quickly and try to make them happy about it too.

 

[Kyle Tully]

Get paid up front.


Sent from my iPhone using magic.

 

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[sector7]

Works every time:

 

[Change]

I've tried my hand in being a construction salesmen for my fathers company when I was in High School...

I learned something from it all- when I read the firing your customer thing...my father always said/says, if a person is too picky, being a pain in anyway, has great demands, too many requests etc., when they ask how much it will cost, make sure the price is double. Shut them up with price and a 30% down payment for work.

Picky, hated-customers, (like one you are mentioning) are the ones who are looking to get "Free" things... are customer you should fire as someone above mentioned.

I got a bit off topic but that's all I had to say

 

[RHL]

Tell him if he doesn't pay, you will publicly post it as an example of your essay writing service.

Brilliant. If he's using it to cheat on his exams, this will make it show up on Google, and make the "merchandise" worthless.

 

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[Esquire]

Get paid up front.


Sent from my iPhone using magic.

Exactly.

Doing the work ... without any guarantee of payment ... tells me one thing:

You need them more than they need you.

F*ck that.

People in demand ... demand payment up front.

People who are desperate ... take whatever they can get.

How do you want to be perceived ...?

I never do anything for anyone without getting paid up front ... or without a taking retainer that secures my fees.

Learned my lesson the hard way ... a very long time ago.

Never again.

If someone has a problem with that ... plenty of fish in the sea.

If you fail to protect yourself ... you have no one to blame but yourself.

If you did the work ... and you did not get paid ... that is YOUR fault.

YOU put yourself in a position to get burnt.

YOU allowed it to happen.

Hold yourself accountable. Take responsibility.

 

[Ninjakid]

Works every time:

This is a great movie and I particularly loved this scene

I've tried my hand in being a construction salesmen for my fathers company when I was in High School...

I learned something from it all- when I read the firing your customer thing...my father always said/says, if a person is too picky, being a pain in anyway, has great demands, too many requests etc., when they ask how much it will cost, make sure the price is double. Shut them up with price and a 30% down payment for work.

Picky, hated-customers, (like one you are mentioning) are the ones who are looking to get "Free" things... are customer you should fire as someone above mentioned, and are definitely why I hate a certain ethnic group of people (not being racist, but seriously you're all a pain in the a$$ when it comes to construction.)

I got a bit off topic but that's all I had to say

I totally agree with firing customers who are difficult, and getting better and more appreciative clients, but you should never hate another ethnic group. We're all people in the end.

Exactly.

Doing the work ... without any guarantee of payment ... tells me one thing:

You need them more than they need you.

F*ck that.

People in demand ... demand payment up front.

People who are desperate ... take whatever they can get.

How do you want to be perceived ...?

I never do anything for anyone without getting paid up front ... or without a taking retainer that secures my fees.

Learned my lesson the hard way ... a very long time ago.

Never again.

If someone has a problem with that ... plenty of fish in the sea.

If you fail to protect yourself ... you have no one to blame but yourself.

If you did the work ... and you did not get paid ... that is YOUR fault.

YOU put yourself in a position to get burnt.

YOU allowed it to happen.

Hold yourself accountable. Take responsibility.

You're actually right about that. I was undervaluing my service for a while (despite actually being very good at it). I'm not denying it was my fault for letting it happen. But lesson learned. I now require payment upfront, and charge quite a bit more.

 

[DennisD]

I now require payment upfront, and charge quite a bit more.

Remember this.

At a certain point, you will want to be weak and break again. you will regret it. I ONLY accept 100% upfront payments and I don't feel bad about it... if they don't like it, I try to refer them to someone else.

 

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[Equilibrium]

Maybe I'm just evil here, but when dealing with a customer I always implemented a self destruct.
I had a mini site for transactions built from PHPbb and a plugins called cash.
Customer signs up
I created a thread with details of project.
As I create things
I upload HEAVILY watermarked .jpg files.
Customer has to buy credits to download finished project
The files are encrypted. Once I have verified payment, they get the key to unlock files.

 

[theag]

Advance payments whereever possible.

For everything else, very fast handing over to collections agency.

 

[ClaytonAlbright]

Get paid up front.


Sent from my iPhone using magic.

If someone comes to my house to replace my siding and asks for 100% payment up front I'd be very uneasy about this person and would likely skip over them. I'd be willing to pay for materials up front and the rest once I'm satisfied and the work is completed. This is industry standard in home contractors at least.

It translates into other freelancers I hire online. I don't know you and I don't trust you. If you ask for 100% up front payment I move on. Once you build my trust then I'll be more willing to pay more up front but then it's a moot point.

Just remember the trust factor goes both ways in business, you could be losing good clients because you got burned by one customer and now demand up front payment. I think 20% is a fair amount to ask for up front.

 

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