Complete Noob Looking For Key Starting Points (Why I'm Here & My Perspective On Wealth Building)

[ucantseeme3d]

Good day, my name is John, I am in my 20's and I have a background in IT and Computer Science. If there's anything I'd like to get into is quant trading, and I would very much like advice on what indicators work best when paired together for an expert advisor (MT4) trading strategy

I saw someone mention this forum on reddit as a good place to start learning how to build wealth. The following is my intro but it is also somewhat of a rant revolving around my general experience within "wealth building forums" and the general mindset I see, which is why I believe many (most) users are stuck there for years having made barely any significant progress (or none at all). I can't afford to fall into that rut.

I know a lot of people have this mindset that hard work leads to success, but that's idealist nonsense (I can just feel my inbox about to get flooded with hate mail lol).

If you are honest with yourself you know for a fact real life doesn't work like that, all of these success stories you see touted all the time are the exception to the rule. For every hard work story that led to success there's thousands of stories of people who failed that worked just as hard if not more, but you'll never hear about them, because the winners write the history books, or in this case the autobiographies (and they get the tv show appearances, and they get the amazon best seller ranks, and they get the notoriety, etc).

The difference between failure and success is having access to essential data, key information, knowing where to start or knowing a specific strategy to begin with.

As the known computer science saying goes Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO).

Not all data and information is useful, you can read 100 books by 100 wealthy authors and still get no key information that leads to you becoming wealthy, especially if they are vague where it counts.



I've spoken to guys who are successful traders (friends of friends) through email, they have a specific trading strategy up their sleeve and key knowledge on the markets they trade on, that's why they are successful. For obvious reasons they say they can't just give me that information (they also say it wouldn't even take long), and I don't blame them, but it's still frustrating knowing that a 5 minute talk with someone could help you leave your job in a month. We are all one conversation away from changing our lives, a conversation that will never happen because nobody wants to help create their own competition or saturate their "niche" (like I said, I can't blame them).

The first few dollars I ever made online were the result of watching a short youtube video. I made barely anything but I liked that the information was specific and it works, more like it did work, doesn't work so well now. Whereas all of the few books and courses I've went through ironically didn't make me a single dollar yet, they failed in comparison to a simple youtube video because they were general and vague (again the size of the information doesn't matter, how specific and accurate it is does).

I need key information

That's the only reason I'm here. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I'm not here to:
1. Get a "just work hard" speech (you might as well say "just waste years of time patting yourself on the back for effort"). Results are all that matter not feelings, feelings won't pay your bills lol.
2. Be "inspired"
3. Be given false hope
4. Be told to read up on more general information (this is pretty much the norm in the forex community lol - "just go to babypips")
5. Be given someones life story (yes yes yes, X successful person is great, I know it, you know it, they know it, that doesn't help me at all though its useless data)
6. Hear more platitudes
Etc

These things are time wasters and I'm not special, I'm not a genius, I don't think I can afford to spend time swimming through platitudes and "feel good" nonsense, when I know that the real information is out there (I just want the data and information, sorry if this sounds abrasive).

I'm looking for a specific starting point when I ask about something and I will be sure to say that to whoever I ask:
A specific course (that is detailed)
A specific guide (that is detailed)
Information that gets straight to the point



Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Were all here "trying to make it" but I think most people get caught up in the "experience" of it all and the feeling of "brotherhood" you get when you are part of forums like this, and you get lost in it. When at the end of the day, that's not really objective, it doesn't really have anything to do with success, it just makes you feel like you are "on your way" to success being surrounded by so many people with the same goals, some of which have achieved it already. I think we need to take on an "AI mindset" (robotic mindset) when it comes to wealth building.

Be objective in our goals even if it seems harsh or brash. At the end of the day its the numbers that matter, its the data that matters (at least that's my perspective). If you don't have the right data you are just wasting your time, like a computer program stuck in an infinite loop.

 

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[Knugs]

Welcome to the forum or not?

Your intro is honestly confusing to me and I feel you hugely misunderstand how entrepreneurship works.

Nobody is going to give you a step by step guide on what you need to do and how you need to do it. You are suprised that you havent made a single dime from a course, which was designed to be sold to you? And again you are asking for a course that will ultimately lead to the same failure. Yet you understand the reason key information is left out and make most courses useless? Perhaps take a step back and reevaluate?

If you are looking to learn a skill that you can build products on or supply a service, then a course might be a headstart. You on the other hand, are looking for a holding hand/silver spoon that just tells you what to do. It doesnt exist. Well, it does but its aim is to generate revenue off you.

I will recommend to you to read all the GOLD and notable posts in this forum and consider reading TFL or unscripted so that you can reset your mindset and think like an entrepreneur. If you like that, signup to the INSIDERS to soak up more useful information that will help you to develop the characteristics that you need to succeed.

Contrary to your belief, you dont need specific data and information. You just need to execute well. Everything else can be found online by a simple search

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Welcome to the forum or not?

Lol, I knew I would ruffle some feathers, but that's just the norm for places like this

Tell me, on average how many users on this forum have quit their jobs and live off of knowledge they've gained here? (again numbers matter not feelings)

On most forums I've been to its just a bunch of guys patting eachother on the back, giving stories, and saying "keep at it", but like 90% of the users are going nowhere in life, they are really just there for the feeling of "becoming successful", but that's all they do, "become", the endless path of present continuous, they never escape the rat race

Your intro is honestly confusing to me and I feel you hugely misunderstand how entrepreneurship works.

Nothing ever really works "one way", I know traders who learned through trial and error because they were born into a rich family and could afford to learn by losing money. One guy lost 10K before he started to make a profit, and now he's consistently profitable. I'm currently learning some things from him

I also know someone who was (like you said never happens) given a step by step guide by another trader (his friend) and he is also profitable

You are suprised that you havent made a single dime from a course, which was designed to be sold to you?

consider reading TFL or unscripted so that you can reset your mindset and think like an entrepreneur

The irony, are these two books not sold? (and if they are free now were they not initially sold?)

Everything that is sold is designed to be sold (that's kind of the point), and if nothing sold ever worked by virtue of it being designed for that purpose, then markets wouldn't exist. There has to be something out there

Contrary to your belief, you dont need specific data and information. You just need to execute well

You need to know what to execute to begin with, so data and information is definitely relevant. I always notice a trend of vague statements in these kinds of forums, "you just need to execute well", that doesn't really amount to anything now does it

Nobody is going to give you a step by step guide on what you need to do and how you need to do it

For the most part you are right, though there are exceptions

Even so, a specific starting point (a reliable source) is what I would want, a step by step guide is preferable, but a source from which the guide was derived is just as good if not better. If I know someone with a specific trading strategy that works, I'd like to learn from the courses/information sources they learned from if I can't learn their strategy

But those sources have to be detailed and specific to make a difference:
NOT "the MACD indicator is mainly used for X"
BUT "here's how to get the best performance with the MACD indicator"

Everything else can be found online by a simple search

Yes, that's exactly the point, EVERYTHING can be found (excess information). How long will it take to wade through everything to find what works?

Truth is anyone can become wealthy (time is the only factor), but if it takes you decades and you are a millionaire at age 70, whats really the point?, your life is pretty much close to over at that point lol

 

[Knugs]

Lol, I knew I would ruffle some feathers, but that's just the norm for places like this

Tell me, on average how many users on this forum have quit their jobs and live off of knowledge they've gained here? (again numbers matter not feelings)

On most forums I've been to its just a bunch of guys patting eachother on the back, giving stories, and saying "keep at it", but like 90% of the users are going nowhere in life, they are really just there for the feeling of "becoming successful", but that's all they do, "become", the endless path of present continuous, they never escape the rat race


Nothing ever really works "one way", I know traders who learned through trial and error because they were born into a rich family and could afford to learn by losing money. One guy lost 10K before he started to make a profit, and now he's consistently profitable. I'm currently learning some things from him

I also know someone who was (like you said never happens) given a step by step guide by another trader (his friend) and he is also profitable



The irony, are these two books not sold? (and if they are free now were they not initially sold?)

Everything that is sold is designed to be sold (that's kind of the point), and if nothing sold ever worked by virtue of it being designed for that purpose, then markets wouldn't exist. There has to be something out there


You need to know what to execute to begin with, so data and information is definitely relevant. I always notice a trend of vague statements in these kinds of forums, "you just need to execute well", that doesn't really amount to anything now does it


For the most part you are right, though there are exceptions

Even so, a specific starting point (a reliable source) is what I would want, a step by step guide is preferable, but a source from which the guide was derived is just as good if not better. If I know someone with a specific trading strategy that works, I'd like to learn from the courses/information sources they learned from if I can't learn their strategy

But those sources have to be detailed and specific to make a difference:
NOT "the MACD indicator is mainly used for X"
BUT "here's how to get the best performance with the MACD indicator"


Yes, that's exactly the point, EVERYTHING can be found (excess information). How long will it take to wade through everything to find what works?

Truth is anyone can become wealthy (time is the only factor), but if it takes you decades and you are a millionaire at age 70, whats really the point?, your life is pretty much close to over at that point lol

1. I dont know the number but many have quit their jobs. We dont do guarantees but there are quite many that tell their story and how they made it thanks to the forum. You are welcome to count the progress threads and figure out how many have made it succesful "so far". If it really matters to you.

2. Not speaking for the forum but action faking is not well tolerated here. No patting for no fruitful work here.

3. These books dont promise you cash. They offer you a read from which you can learn. They are more lifestyle books than step by step guides.

4. I know, you know. At the end of the day the number that havent succeeded from courses is closer to 99%. The irony of trading is that your success can be gone in 1 trade.

5. Its a false perceived value, which these courses are. Most exist to sell you a lie.

6. You execute ideas and they are abundant. You identify problems and they are abundant. You figure out a solution to a problem and create a business on that, thats called entrepreneurship. You are not unique with the idea in general but the execution is the differentiating factor. Its not data and knowledge per se.

7. You need to connect with traders. they are not entrepreneurs in my view, since the definition is different. You aint solving an issue.

8. go to an investment bank and learn why they trade better than anyone else.

9. Its your job to "wade" through everything. you literally want us to spoon-feed you.

 

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[mdot]

I need key information

That's the only reason I'm here.

I'm looking for a specific starting point

Even so, a specific starting point (a reliable source) is what I would want, a step by step guide is preferable

Sounds like you are only here to take and offer nothing in return. I've only been on this forum a short time but after reading MJ's books and lurking threads I can already tell you aren't going to be entertained by many people here.

Aside from that

Lol, I knew I would ruffle some feathers, but that's just the norm for places like this

You're starting off on a bad foot. Even if people on the forum were willing to tolerate the "take-only" attitude (which I think they would for the sake of making information available to others that would appreciate it), being edgy and argumentative towards those trying to help won't get you very far. If you leave a trail of ruffled feathers and "offended" community members everywhere you go, you aren't a visionary or "spitting the truth", you're just a bully.

I second the recommendation that you read MJ's books.

 

[Deleted78083]

Hey,

I don't think this forum is a place for you. We don't do trading here, but build businesses based on the CENTS framework outlined in the books.

You were asking how many people quit their jobs based on what they found on the forum? Well, actually, quite a few. Look at the GOLD threads.

Furthermore, if we take trading out of the equation and you are looking for a place to start, try copywriting.

Best,

M.

 

[GoodluckChuck]

Oh boy. I sense a humble pie coming down the pipeline for you OP. Hopefully, it happens quickly so you don't waste too much time.

If someone could pick an indicator and build a trading bot and instantly become a billionaire, then it would only work a couple of times before the market absorbed it. That's how markets work. If there's a trick, it fades in effectiveness the more it's used until it doesn't work anymore. If you want to learn how to trade, study the markets and trade. You can't build a robot that makes money trading if you can't make money trading yourself. I recommend a book called A Not So Random Walk on Wall Street by Gregory Mannarino. It's only 76 pages long and it will tell you all you need to know to get started making money in the stock market. Hint: Everything goes up in price when the Fed creates money.

You've stumbled upon a forum that is unlike most. It's full of people of all success levels. Many found this place when they were just getting started and are now multi-millionaires. The information and connection they made here played a huge role in it. I've met hundreds of people from this forum and they are all grade A awesome people. The spirit of openness and sharing of information is incredible.

I recommend taking a step back and reading some of the Gold threads. Expect it to take time to build up your knowledge and ability to see value and understand how it flows from person to person. Read MJ's books. They change a lot of lives including mine.

Finally, about what you said about hard work. You're right that hard work doesn't guarantee success. But, I guarantee you that success requires hard work. Sure, 1 in a billion might get lucky, but do you want to sit around and wait for luck or do you want to get to work making shit happen for yourself?

Good luck

 

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[ucantseeme3d]

The irony of trading is that your success can be gone in 1 trade.

Only if you gamble with the money, if you use proper money management that doesn't happen. People "blow their accounts" because they try to "wing it" rather than sticking to a strategy of steady consistent profits

It would be the "entrepreneur equivalent" of you buying up a ton of something to sell at wholesale expecting to sell it all off only for something to happen that kills the demand for that product, leaving you stuck with all the inventory and its cost

From what I've heard, some people have actually made this mistake (it was more common before the era of dropshipping), so it isn't that ironic. Its just that its much easier to do this "all or nothing" method with trading because its more "meta", it deals with the currency directly, rather than items with a currency value, so there's less involved in the process

7. You need to connect with traders. they are not entrepreneurs in my view, since the definition is different. You aint solving an issue.

I think for most people coming here (well to any "wealth forum" really), their goal isn't to be an "entrepreneur", they don't care about the label, their goal is financial freedom, to escape the rat race of the 9 to 5 life

9. Its your job to "wade" through everything. you literally want us to spoon-feed you.

The irony of saying this on such a forum is it begs the question - why even join such a forum? (what is the purpose of gathering great and accomplished minds who never tell you anything you can't google?)

(If it can be found from a few google searches, its pretty much saturated)

What is the end goal of being around a collection of knowledgeable already successful individuals if they aren't going to give specific advice?

Do you really think the best use of such a forum is for men who already "made it" to function as "adda boy" and "pep talk" dispensers while the rest of us "wade" through everything? lol

I want you to seriously think about what you're saying, if the purpose of this forum is to simply be told to "wade" through everything with no clear guidance (no "spoon feeding")...... then why should anyone even join the forum when they can do that very thing on their own without the being told to? (most of us were already doing just that to begin with)

It doesn't make any sense when you think about it logically

If the point of a forum like this is for the "elite" to just stand around and "humblebrag" and tell everyone else to "just keep trying" then the "elite" don't actually serve a purpose, they are just here to circle jerk eachother and ego stroke lol

Either way I've already been given specific sources ironically due to this thread

I recommend a book called A Not So Random Walk on Wall Street by Gregory Mannarino. It's only 76 pages long and it will tell you all you need to know to get started making money in the stock market. Hint: Everything goes up in price when the Fed creates money.

Thanks for this, will check it out

Like you and @Knugs said I'll check out the gold threads

If someone could pick an indicator and build a trading bot and instantly become a billionaire, then it would only work a couple of times before the market absorbed it. That's how markets work. If there's a trick, it fades in effectiveness the more it's used until it doesn't work anymore. If you want to learn how to trade, study the markets and trade. You can't build a robot that makes money trading if you can't make money trading yourself

I'm not saying you can instantly become a billionaire, but you can make consistent profits, and also if you optimize the strategy to new data like every 3 months or so it could stay consistently profitable

So you are right but I don't think you are looking at the entire picture, there's software developed specifically for this task, you can research it if you want

Quant traders would not even exist if this were not a reality

Do you think there won't be a point where artificial intelligence surpasses even human understanding of the market and reading market trends?

In that era, even people who trade manually will be using AI to do their analysis for them, people will barely look at their charts

Sounds like you are only here to take and offer nothing in return.

I guess you didn't read the title

If a homeless man walks up to you and asks for some money to buy food, do you tell him - "Sounds like you are only here to take and offer nothing in return" (what does he have to offer again?)

If (when) I have something to offer I will, and it will be a very specific guiding post, specifics are all that really matter, without it you just end up wasting time

Furthermore, if we take trading out of the equation and you are looking for a place to start, try copywriting.

Thanks

I've seen some posts by Lex Deville on copyrighting, he seems to have a course that is promoted on a page on this forum, would you say its any good?

You see this is where my whole specifics matter thing comes into play lol

I could literally spend years going through different sources of copyrighting courses, youtube videos, books, etc, there's just so much out there

What would you recommend as a good place to start (a reliable source)?

Where did you start?

 

[GoodluckChuck]

I'm not saying you can instantly become a billionaire, but you can make consistent profits, and also if you optimize the strategy to new data like every 3 months or so it could stay consistently profitable

So you are right but I don't think you are looking at the entire picture, there's software developed specifically for this task, you can research it if you want

Quant traders would not even exist if this were not a reality

Do you think there won't be a point where artificial intelligence surpasses even human understanding of the market and reading market trends?

Oh, I have researched it. I used to think it was as simple as you do. It's not. The biggest banks in the world have teams of people doing this. They even make sure their computers are as close to the trading desk as possible so that they can take advantage of the milliseconds it takes for the data to go through the wires. It's extremely competitive.

The reason people make money in the markets is that someone else is losing it. Quant systems take advantage of inefficiencies and make most of their money from micro trades taking tiny bits here and there from retail.

Honestly, while I think trading is really fun and exciting, it's not the best way to make millions of dollars unless you already have millions of dollars. There are much more consistent ways to earn money that are less risky. Check out that book I recommended. He breaks down some numbers about day traders. A decent day trader using 25k to trade with can make 60k/yr. In another book called Wizards of Wall Street, Monroe Trout, a top trader of his time, had the goal of earning 30% returns per year. Unless you have a lot of money, that's not going to make you rich.

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Oh, I have researched it. I used to think it was as simple as you do. It's not. The biggest banks in the world have teams of people doing this. They even make sure their computers are as close to the trading desk as possible so that they can take advantage of the milliseconds it takes for the data to go through the wires. It's extremely competitive.

The reason people make money in the markets is that someone else is losing it. Quant systems take advantage of inefficiencies and make most of their money from micro trades taking tiny bits here and there from retail.

Honestly, while I think trading is really fun and exciting, it's not the best way to make millions of dollars unless you already have millions of dollars. There are much more consistent ways to earn money that are less risky. Check out that book I recommended. He breaks down some numbers about day traders. A decent day trader using 25k to trade with can make 60k/yr. In another book called Wizards of Wall Street, Monroe Trout, a top trader of his time, had the goal of earning 30% returns per year. Unless you have a lot of money, that's not going to make you rich.

You are right, its very competitive and definitely isn't the best way to make millions (that's an understatement), but if I could make at least $100 a day on the side from trading I would consider it a success, even just as a means of supplying extra income to fund other avenues that are more profitable

 

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[Knugs]

Only if you gamble with the money, if you use proper money management that doesn't happen. People "blow their accounts" because they try to "wing it" rather than sticking to a strategy of steady consistent profits

It would be the "entrepreneur equivalent" of you buying up a ton of something to sell at wholesale expecting to sell it all off only for something to happen that kills the demand for that product, leaving you stuck with all the inventory and its cost

From what I've heard, some people have actually made this mistake (it was more common before the era of dropshipping), so it isn't that ironic. Its just that its much easier to do this "all or nothing" method with trading because its more "meta", it deals with the currency directly, rather than items with a currency value, so there's less involved in the process


I think for most people coming here (well to any "wealth forum" really), their goal isn't to be an "entrepreneur", they don't care about the label, their goal is financial freedom, to escape the rat race of the 9 to 5 life


The irony of saying this on such a forum is it begs the question - why even join such a forum? (what is the purpose of gathering great and accomplished minds who never tell you anything you can't google?)

(If it can be found from a few google searches, its pretty much saturated)

What is the end goal of being around a collection of knowledgeable already successful individuals if they aren't going to give specific advice?

Do you really think the best use of such a forum is for men who already "made it" to function as "adda boy" and "pep talk" dispensers while the rest of us "wade" through everything? lol

I want you to seriously think about what you're saying, if the purpose of this forum is to simply be told to "wade" through everything with no clear guidance (no "spoon feeding")...... then why should anyone even join the forum when they can do that very thing on their own without the being told to? (most of us were already doing just that to begin with)

It doesn't make any sense when you think about it logically

If the point of a forum like this is for the "elite" to just stand around and "humblebrag" and tell everyone else to "just keep trying" then the "elite" don't actually serve a purpose, they are just here to circle jerk eachother and ego stroke lol

Either way I've already been given specific sources ironically due to this thread




Thanks for this, will check it out

Like you and @Knugs said I'll check out the gold threads


I'm not saying you can instantly become a billionaire, but you can make consistent profits, and also if you optimize the strategy to new data like every 3 months or so it could stay consistently profitable

So you are right but I don't think you are looking at the entire picture, there's software developed specifically for this task, you can research it if you want

Quant traders would not even exist if this were not a reality

Do you think there won't be a point where artificial intelligence surpasses even human understanding of the market and reading market trends?

In that era, even people who trade manually will be using AI to do their analysis for them, people will barely look at their charts




I guess you didn't read the title

If a homeless man walks up to you and asks for some money to buy food, do you tell him - "Sounds like you are only here to take and offer nothing in return" (what does he have to offer again?)

If (when) I have something to offer I will, and it will be a very specific guiding post, specifics are all that really matter, without it you just end up wasting time




Thanks

I've seen some posts by Lex Deville on copyrighting, he seems to have a course that is promoted on a page on this forum, would you say its any good?

You see this is where my whole specifics matter thing comes into play lol

I could literally spend years going through different sources of copyrighting courses, youtube videos, books, etc, there's just so much out there

What would you recommend as a good place to start (a reliable source)?

Where did you start?

How are we supposed to help you, when you have already known better from your first post? People are here for all sorts of reasons. Some are sick off their jobs and look for personal freedom, some have lost their jobs and look for an extra gig, some are wannapreneuers, some enjoy the thematics here and many are just simply reading/lurking etc.

Your anaolgy doesnt work with simply buying and selling products. It is far more complicated than trading and there are so many more factors that make it entrepreneurial. Many have tried and died replicating the dropshipping route and some have succeeded. You are rightly saying so there is a supply and demand side that rightly so gets businesses killed and is another reason why courses dont work. Its also a question of entry to barrier, which is well explained in TFL. The easier it is to enter the market, the more saturated and competetive it will become. Literally if you find that specific course you are after, it will soon be valueless when everybody has adopted the strategy. You are looking for some secret sauce, when you will never find it/or find it too late to be impactful.

It is literally what happened to dropshipping. Back in the days you could kill it with dropshipping but it was too easy to replicate. Now you have shopify as such which makes it even easier. And dropshippers have pushed up fb/ig/google CPC. Then what happened is that even the succesfull dropshipper got outcompeted and you will find them now selling their expertise in courses, which again lowers the barrier. Here on TFL, the advice was to innovate around the product and make it unique, therefore creating a difficult to copy USP, which sells. A lot of succesfull dropshippers on this forum have turned the dropshipping into a real business with real products and evolved away from dropshipping. Reflect on it.

This forum is not to spoon-feed you by giving you a step by step guide that has a false perceived value. Thats just lieing to you. Yet, the progress threads on here show how it could be done and how some people did it. It also shows more importantly what others did wrong and why they failed. You have to extract the sheer amount of knowledge and wisdom on this forum, which is being given away for free. Some posts alone are more valuable than an entire course.

If you have questions about a business, questions about ideas or have questions on your progress. When you are stuck and need some advice or need help with a decision the forum can help you. We are not giving you clear guidance that doesnt exist. If you are looking to build a skill than you can earn money from, Lex Deville course on copywriting is a good start.

 

[Deleted78083]

Only if you gamble with the money, if you use proper money management that doesn't happen. People "blow their accounts" because they try to "wing it" rather than sticking to a strategy of steady consistent profits

It would be the "entrepreneur equivalent" of you buying up a ton of something to sell at wholesale expecting to sell it all off only for something to happen that kills the demand for that product, leaving you stuck with all the inventory and its cost

From what I've heard, some people have actually made this mistake (it was more common before the era of dropshipping), so it isn't that ironic. Its just that its much easier to do this "all or nothing" method with trading because its more "meta", it deals with the currency directly, rather than items with a currency value, so there's less involved in the process


I think for most people coming here (well to any "wealth forum" really), their goal isn't to be an "entrepreneur", they don't care about the label, their goal is financial freedom, to escape the rat race of the 9 to 5 life


The irony of saying this on such a forum is it begs the question - why even join such a forum? (what is the purpose of gathering great and accomplished minds who never tell you anything you can't google?)

(If it can be found from a few google searches, its pretty much saturated)

What is the end goal of being around a collection of knowledgeable already successful individuals if they aren't going to give specific advice?

Do you really think the best use of such a forum is for men who already "made it" to function as "adda boy" and "pep talk" dispensers while the rest of us "wade" through everything? lol

I want you to seriously think about what you're saying, if the purpose of this forum is to simply be told to "wade" through everything with no clear guidance (no "spoon feeding")...... then why should anyone even join the forum when they can do that very thing on their own without the being told to? (most of us were already doing just that to begin with)

It doesn't make any sense when you think about it logically

If the point of a forum like this is for the "elite" to just stand around and "humblebrag" and tell everyone else to "just keep trying" then the "elite" don't actually serve a purpose, they are just here to circle jerk eachother and ego stroke lol

Either way I've already been given specific sources ironically due to this thread




Thanks for this, will check it out

Like you and @Knugs said I'll check out the gold threads


I'm not saying you can instantly become a billionaire, but you can make consistent profits, and also if you optimize the strategy to new data like every 3 months or so it could stay consistently profitable

So you are right but I don't think you are looking at the entire picture, there's software developed specifically for this task, you can research it if you want

Quant traders would not even exist if this were not a reality

Do you think there won't be a point where artificial intelligence surpasses even human understanding of the market and reading market trends?

In that era, even people who trade manually will be using AI to do their analysis for them, people will barely look at their charts




I guess you didn't read the title

If a homeless man walks up to you and asks for some money to buy food, do you tell him - "Sounds like you are only here to take and offer nothing in return" (what does he have to offer again?)

If (when) I have something to offer I will, and it will be a very specific guiding post, specifics are all that really matter, without it you just end up wasting time




Thanks

I've seen some posts by Lex Deville on copyrighting, he seems to have a course that is promoted on a page on this forum, would you say its any good?

You see this is where my whole specifics matter thing comes into play lol

I could literally spend years going through different sources of copyrighting courses, youtube videos, books, etc, there's just so much out there

What would you recommend as a good place to start (a reliable source)?

Where did you start?

Nothing like practice to get better, but I can recommend some books:

- Cashvertising by Drew Eric Whitman
- Copywriting secrets by Jim Edwards
- The Boron Letters by Gary Halbert
- Breakthrough advertising by Eugene Shwartz
- Scientific advertising by Claude Hopkins
- On advertising by David Ogilvy

Reading all of these will probably make you better than 90% of people doing ads out there.

However, you don't want to learn copywriting for the sake of copywriting. You want to learn copywriting because of what it teaches you to write powerful ads. Copywriting is the art of persuading through text. Should you master it, you will also master the art of knowing what people want, and how to give it to them. And that's really powerful.

 

[UK_Mike]

I think for most people coming here (well to any "wealth forum" really), their goal isn't to be an "entrepreneur", they don't care about the label, their goal is financial freedom, to escape the rat race of the 9 to 5 life

I'm not sure this is really a "wealth" forum - the tag says "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Entrepreneurship", rather than "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of cash". Of course, I'd imagine a lot of people like the idea of being an entrepreneur just because of the wealth it brings, but it's not always the only goal.

I've seen some posts by Lex Deville on copyrighting, he seems to have a course that is promoted on a page on this forum, would you say its any good?

...

What would you recommend as a good place to start (a reliable source)?

I'm going to be "that guy" now and say that a good place to start would be to do proper spell-checking - it's "copywriting", because you're writing copy. (I know, I know, but I couldn't resist it).

I understand your frustration with these so-called courses - back in the day I signed up to all sorts of "online marketing" courses which did suggest that they would be the catalyst to untold riches, but every single one of them missed out any kind of detail on exactly what could or should be marketed. Every single one of them also promoted the kind of email marketing that would go instantly in my "deleted" folder if it even made it out of the junk folder in the first place. But I soon realised that the course itself is what these people are marketing, and making their money from.

I once nearly signed up to a property developers organisation, thinking they'd be able to give me step-by-step guidance on how to buy cheap property, renovate it and then either sell it on or rent it out. One of these that does a short evening course on "how to be a property developer" in a local hotel / pub, which is really the hard-sell for the weekend course at £2000, which in turn is the hard sell for the "agency" at £9k / year which will handle all the difficult bits of property development. And again, it doesn't take long to realise that while they can organise all that stuff for me, that's where they make the money, and they make it regardless of whether *my* property sells or rents, because their income comes from the courses, and their commission on the purchase, and on the traders that they recommend, and on the rental management. It appealed because it was an easy way to get the job done, but in reality their company would basically be using me to fund their income, and the cynic in me quickly realised that if they were so good at doing all the things they said they could, they wouldn't be sharing that with me for £9k a year, they'd be quietly doing it themselves and keeping the money.

I don't have a problem with people selling their knowledge to people who want to buy it (as the above suggests that perhaps I do), but only if there's some actual value in it.

I should add, I'm not one of these wildly-successful entrepreneurs that post gold threads on here - I wouldn't even call myself an entrepreneur, and I'm not even sure it's possible to learn how to be done of those, perhaps you either think that way or you don't, and I certainly haven't thought that way until now. Maybe I will read something that lights a fire in me somewhere on here, at some point.

 

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[Johnny boy]

My name is John too and I'm also in my 20's (24)

You gravitate towards trading because you have no idea how to create any real value, and it seems easier than growing a business. Wouldn't it be nice to press some buttons according to your algorithm and churn out a 30% yearly return. No employees. No need to invent anything. No merchandise. No sales. No website building. No selling. Sounds like a dream.

It is a dream. Grow up and start a business before you blow your student debt payment money on robinhood options.

Here, we buy stuff and sell it for a profit, just like a trader, except we do something in between....we provide value. That's what an entrepreneur is. We take something that has low value and bring it to someplace with more value. We buy employees and pay them hourly to do a service or put together a product for a much higher rate, and after expenses we take home that profit. We spend time trying to optimize systems, optimize customer acquisition, lower costs, and turn our business into something scalable so we can make millions.

Many have done that on this forum. I'm on my way there. I have around 100 recurring customers paying me $150 a month and we should be around double that in 6 months.

You seem like the type to argue a lot and get an attitude (even though you're the one who needs help? lol)

I don't know what clown with a leased lambo selling forex courses (or whatever) convinced you that trading was a great way to make your millions (maybe if you're running a giant fund of other peoples money), but it's not. It's a good hedge against risk, a nice place to park sizable funds, etc. You aren't Eddie Morra...this isn't limitless...if you still want to make money on wall street, go get a time machine back to the 80's and go work for Jordan Belfort.

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Here, we buy stuff and sell it for a profit, just like a trader, except we do something in between....we provide value. That's what an entrepreneur is. We take something that has low value and bring it to someplace with more value. We buy employees and pay them hourly to do a service or put together a product for a much higher rate, and after expenses we take home that profit. We spend time trying to optimize systems, optimize customer acquisition, lower costs, and turn our business into something scalable so we can make millions.

1. There are hundreds of thousands of individuals who have done just this and never made it in the business world, so in the same way that trading sounds like a dream, this also sounds very "inspiring", but it just isn't that simple. We live on a planet of billions and everybody pretty much wants to "make it" and every customer wants more value for less money. You can't just be good, you have to find a niche to avoid competition or actually be better than your competition, and "just be better" isn't advice (I hope you wouldn't say that next) its just arrogance. Some people are just better than you.

2. In some businesses you will always lose to the person who has more capital to begin with which makes starting a business in certain fields pointless, there's a reason why malls and small businesses are closing down all over America. Amazon is a powerhouse that has and will continue to drastically affect the economy, because like you said, it provides value, more value that most other small companies, and that's because it can afford to.

Value is relative to your competition, if Amazon started pushing their way into your niche, your consumer base, how much value do you really provide relative to what they could offer within a month of establishing themselves?

Also value barely matters in the online world, and the COVID 19 pandemic has pushed a lot of business there.

One thing I learned about online sales is that keywords, traffic, marketing, etc matter 1000 times more than any value you can provide, you can get drowned out by your competition and nobody ever sees your superior products.

3. I never said trading would make me a millionaire, but I know successful traders, so unless I was delusionally talking to myself at those times these individuals definitely exist, and definitely live off of their trading profits (which are decent).

4. I get where you are coming from, but I'm a realist, not an optimist. All of these inspirational stories don't really mean anything at the end of the day, because like I said (and people like to forget) for every success story there's thousands of failures by individuals who were working just as hard if not harder.

Your success doesn't necessarily mean you "worked the hardest", you very well could have just found the right niche at the right time and you happened to market in the right way. This is what I mean when I say specifics matter.

In the business world there's this phenomenon of everybody just rolling the dice and those that happen to succeed just tell everyone else to do just that, roll the dice, and they delude themselves into thinking that their efforts paid off, when it had less to do with their efforts and more to do with random chance, they just happened to come out on top in that gamble. They very well could have become one of the thousands of failures among another persons success story.

Its easy to say "just start a business and provide value" but the most important question is "would this business even be profitable and is my competition too stiff?".

Everybody thinks they have a good business idea when they start off, you can feel the excitement welling up in you when you think about it and how you are going to start, but many realize very soon that better competition already exists, sometimes you can't just "follow your passions", because someone already outclasses you in that passion, you have to find whats feasible and profitable first before starting a business venture.

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Nothing like practice to get better, but I can recommend some books:

- Cashvertising by Drew Eric Whitman
- Copywriting secrets by Jim Edwards
- The Boron Letters by Gary Halbert
- Breakthrough advertising by Eugene Shwartz
- Scientific advertising by Claude Hopkins
- On advertising by David Ogilvy

Reading all of these will probably make you better than 90% of people doing ads out there.

However, you don't want to learn copywriting for the sake of copywriting. You want to learn copywriting because of what it teaches you to write powerful ads. Copywriting is the art of persuading through text. Should you master it, you will also master the art of knowing what people want, and how to give it to them. And that's really powerful.

Where would you find clients afterwards?

Places like upwork and fiverr I'm sure will be super saturated (and competition like that just drives the price down to ridiculous levels). I remember being on fiverr and there are guys charging $5 to do 30 of something that another person would charge $5 to do 10 of, and of similar quality too.

This kind of seems like a field where you would ironically have to go work for a company to get any money out of it

 

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[Deleted78083]

Where would you find clients afterwards?

Places like upwork and fiverr I'm sure will be super saturated (and competition like that just drives the price down to ridiculous levels). I remember being on fiverr and there are guys charging $5 to do 30 of something that another person would charge $5 to do 10 of, and of similar quality too.

This kind of seems like a field where you would ironically have to go work for a company to get any money out of it

Haha, come on man, that's the beauty of entrepreneurship, you need to figure that out for yourself ; )

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

The closest thing you’ll find to “exact steps” would be a business plan.

But there are thousands of types of businesses, so you’re not there yet.

 

[Mike Stoian]

I didn't read everything cuz honestly it's a waste of time.

1. OP is into trading -> which in itself is a pursuit of easy money where you don't have to actually provide anything of value to the world. I was into that too when I was younger.
2. OP doesn't trust anyone -> which makes sense 90% of the time but in this case he'd fail to see value if it hit him over the head.
3. OP wants step-by-step instructions not vague statements. Man, I for sure am not gonna sell out my business strategy to a rando on the internet. And so are many other people.

Figure it out yourself dude. That's what we all did.
All the info in the world will only help you to understand that :
1 - there are no step-by-step plans you can follow. If you want that go get a job or follow some expensive course where nobody makes money.
2 - nobody is gonna give out what works for them for free. Why make more competition for yourself in the marketplace? Instead, they're gonna give you info that worked for them as long as that doesn't put their business in risk.
3 - it's 90% in your psychology. The reason most people don't even try is because they've given up, or never even thought possible. The rest of us are called crazy by our relatives and friends until we succeed. Then they say: Oh we believed in you all along.

ps: and yeah, many fail and never succeed. But that's the road we choose. We'd rather die struggling than never try at all. All you can do is try to align the percentage as much as possible. in your favour and try as many times as possible.

 

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[Andy Black]

I need key information

That's the only reason I'm here

Business 101: Add value, get paid.

You say people won’t just give you the info you want. I’m curious what you did for them first.

What can you do so people want to help you without you even asking for help?

At the end of the day its the numbers that matter

Funny that. My favourite business quote ever is from Mother Theresa:

“Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time, and always start with the person closest to you.”

... and that’s coming from a guy with a Maths degree who spent 15 years in IT as a database administrator and then 10 years managing Google Ads teams and campaigns, sometimes spending €120k/day.

One thing I’ve learned is that we do better to stop trying to make money shuffling electrons around and instead realise that “money is proof we helped our fellow man.” (That’s a quote from the founder of this forum btw. Yeah, I drank the koolaid.)

But then I’m twice your age and I like being in forums where people support each other and try to help each other out... as I’ve just tried to do for you now.

 

[JordanK]

Why did you even bother posting on this forum if your mind is already made up that you won't succeed in business?

You are already defeated before you have started.

If you want a guaranteed average level of success then continue with your 9-5 and retire in your 60's with a pension.

Nothing else in life is guaranteed.

My advice would be to humble yourself. You are surrounded here on these forums by many people of different levels of experience and wealth yet as self confessed you haven't experienced any level of success yet in business. However, all of your posts are written from a perceived position of authority. You are trying to preach to us telling us how business is done and how people have become successful. Where are you getting this level of certainty in your thoughts/opinions from?

The attitude reminds me of working as an employee where people would pretend they understood certain things just to not look silly in front of co-workers/bosses. Things operate differently in the entrepreneurial world. You need to approach situations from a position of you know nothing and desire to learn from those who do. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" springs to mind.

I'm not in the business of bragging but the value from this forum has helped me become a full time businessman over the past few years. I respect the opinions of veteran contributors on this forum so much I flew out from Europe to America this year to be around them for a week and learn even more to level up my business even further.

 

[Knugs]

1. There are hundreds of thousands of individuals who have done just this and never made it in the business world, so in the same way that trading sounds like a dream, this also sounds very "inspiring", but it just isn't that simple. We live on a planet of billions and everybody pretty much wants to "make it" and every customer wants more value for less money. You can't just be good, you have to find a niche to avoid competition or actually be better than your competition, and "just be better" isn't advice (I hope you wouldn't say that next) its just arrogance. Some people are just better than you.

2. In some businesses you will always lose to the person who has more capital to begin with which makes starting a business in certain fields pointless, there's a reason why malls and small businesses are closing down all over America. Amazon is a powerhouse that has and will continue to drastically affect the economy, because like you said, it provides value, more value that most other small companies, and that's because it can afford to.

Value is relative to your competition, if Amazon started pushing their way into your niche, your consumer base, how much value do you really provide relative to what they could offer within a month of establishing themselves?

Also value barely matters in the online world, and the COVID 19 pandemic has pushed a lot of business there.

One thing I learned about online sales is that keywords, traffic, marketing, etc matter 1000 times more than any value you can provide, you can get drowned out by your competition and nobody ever sees your superior products.

3. I never said trading would make me a millionaire, but I know successful traders, so unless I was delusionally talking to myself at those times these individuals definitely exist, and definitely live off of their trading profits (which are decent).

4. I get where you are coming from, but I'm a realist, not an optimist. All of these inspirational stories don't really mean anything at the end of the day, because like I said (and people like to forget) for every success story there's thousands of failures by individuals who were working just as hard if not harder.

Your success doesn't necessarily mean you "worked the hardest", you very well could have just found the right niche at the right time and you happened to market in the right way. This is what I mean when I say specifics matter.

In the business world there's this phenomenon of everybody just rolling the dice and those that happen to succeed just tell everyone else to do just that, roll the dice, and they delude themselves into thinking that their efforts paid off, when it had less to do with their efforts and more to do with random chance, they just happened to come out on top in that gamble. They very well could have become one of the thousands of failures among another persons success story.

Its easy to say "just start a business and provide value" but the most important question is "would this business even be profitable and is my competition too stiff?".

Everybody thinks they have a good business idea when they start off, you can feel the excitement welling up in you when you think about it and how you are going to start, but many realize very soon that better competition already exists, sometimes you can't just "follow your passions", because someone already outclasses you in that passion, you have to find whats feasible and profitable first before starting a business venture.

1. how do you find your niche in trading and make yourself better than the big banks? Your argument is flawed.
2. Its not about capital. Why do startups disrupt the market so much that 7-8,9 figure companies cant keep up with it and lose a huge market share to?
2. Your superiors product implies greater value and an increased perceived value which is always and beyond keywords. Your online marketing campaign is going to be more efficient and allow more CPC than the competition
2. Btw how many succesfull traders got killed by COVID?
3. That depends on how much capital one trades with and if its full time. You on the other hand want to do it as a side gig. I believe trading doesnt work like that.
4. Equally, finding the right niche at the right time and executing correctly is not learned in a course.
4. Actually, most startup founders fail before they create their succesful business. Why do you think that is so?
_____

You are delusional how the real world works, because you have no idea and no experience in it. Thats not the problem. Most people dont have the experience until they start. The issue is rather your defeatist attitute towards entrepreneurship and you are certainly not the only one. That becomes apparent from all your comments so far. Hence you see a lot of motivational stories on this forum who progressed from newbies to succesful entrepreneurs. The reason these people share their progress and their success is because they are thankful what the forum has given them and want to give back. Its up to us, the users, to extract the key learnings and findings of that person. Its not meant for us to copy the process. That isnt how it works.

When I founded my startup I dived into uncertainty and I can tell you no course or guide could have ever prepared me for this journey. Why? each journey is unique in its own way. There is some info which overlaps but in the majority of cases its just pure uncertainty. I went on to create a tech company in the medical space, which stirred up the market and caused 6-7 new startups to form and compete. The big businesses with all their capital and clients are not able to react to this change and are being eaten up by all of us little startups. One of these startups for example has raised a 30 million round. Now, the largest traditional business is looking to aquire my company, so that they can use our technology to adapt to the market.

I could make a course and tell you all specifics about the market and how to's but most likely you are too late to the party

 

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[Andy Black]

Lol, I knew I would ruffle some feathers, but that's just the norm for places like this

I think this is telling.

My norm for “places like this” is different. I end up making quite a few friends and building some great relationships.

Do you prefer ruffling feathers to building relationships? It’s not a leading question. It’s maybe something for you to ponder, or not.

 

[LukeLukeLuke]

Just from today and yesterday on this forum, you have a guy starting his youtube channel, two guys running their marketing agency that did 10k for the first time, and another guy launching a cool product on kickstarter. That tells me (and I am new here), that this forum is probably more useful than you suggest. Of course, there are also people that did not and will never take any action. In the same way, fitness forums are full of people that will start exercising and get active on a forum for a month and then disappear forever. This is just the nature of the internet.
I tried trading for a bit when I was younger, but I realized it is all a myth, a mirage. A dream other people want you to believe: brokers, advisors, book authors, course sellers. Yes, they are all entrepreneurs. Traders are not. Traders are the plankton rest of this ecosystem is feeding on.
And if there is someone with a working trading system, that consistently brings them profit, why on earth would they share their system with you or anyone else?

I know you said you are not keen on reading 'The Millionaire Fastlane ', but anyway I highly recommend you do. This book is written from the perspective of scepticism towards what crowd believes, which is something I can see in what you are writing too. Regardless of your not very fortunate start on this forum, I think you would enjoy it. Anyway, it is 9$ on amazon, so not a big risk.

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Just from today and yesterday on this forum, you have a guy starting his youtube channel, two guys running their marketing agency that did 10k for the first time, and another guy launching a cool product on kickstarter. That tells me (and I am new here), that this forum is probably more useful than you suggest.

1. I never said it wasn't useful, I'm saying that if nobody is being specific then they are giving useless advice (and people are being specific to my answers). It would be like me telling you to "just build a computer" when you asked how to build a high performing gaming PC, and then proceeding to pat myself on the back and tell you off, for having the gall to ask for more information so you don't make mistakes and waste money.

This is just the general behavior and mindset I see on such forums, its their prerogative, they aren't obligated to actually help anyone, but I think one should at least be obligated to not delude themselves into thinking (or acting like) they actually are helping when all they are doing is making themselves feel good for giving google search tier advice (advice they definitely wouldn't give their children).

I'm not the child of anyone here (obviously lol), but if ones advice isn't at least 75% the quality of advice they'd give their own child, then their advice is worthless and I would go as far as saying it is MALICIOUS, because in that case you would literally just be giving someone "half truths" and leading them down a path that is likely prone to failure.

I would prefer someone with a mindset like that to not tell me anything at all period, as their advice is more harmful to my progress than them not telling me anything.

I did get great and specific advice in this thread though so I can't complain, but if I didn't ask for it would I have even gotten it, or would I have just been given a finger point in some general direction and told "good luck" lol.



2. You are assuming that these individuals aren't just very talented and are the exception to the rule.

Like I said in this thread, it is an all too cliche thing to attribute every persons success or effort to their "work ethic" when there are so many other factors like capital, genetics (not having mental defects for one), the chance of opportunity, etc.

There are so many factors outside of your control that dictate the path of your life, and most people really don't want to think about that, but that's reality. We probably aren't even in the same class as these men who you are touting as proof of how effective the forum is, they could very well just be amazingly talented, and you or I could spend 20 years here and never each anywhere.

Either way I hope you too ask for specifics and try to get as much details as possible, we all like to think were special and if we just work hard, keep at it, and believe in ourselves we'll make it.

That nonsense is only in the movies, some people are just born better than you (physically, intellectually, etc).

I'm not saying we can't make it with effort and planning, but come on now, don't you want more than hopes and effort on your side? lol (sorry, I won't trust in that, if I can get details and get a head start I'm taking it).

I know you said you are not keen on reading 'The Millionaire Fastlane ', but anyway I highly recommend you do. This book is written from the perspective of scepticism towards what crowd believes

It is probably an amazing book, but if it isn't telling me specifically HOW to make money or at least WHAT is currently profitable and WHERE to start, giving me a method, showing me a path, then it will pretty much just end up being a "water is wet" dictionary

The time I spend reading that book I could use to work on my online business

The money I spend on that book could be used for facebook advertising, etc

I'm not just trying one thing btw, I'm trying a lot of different things, some have began to give a few bucks profit. I'm testing the waters and continuously searching to see what specifically would be the best path for me to pursue

 

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[ucantseeme3d]

OP wants step-by-step instructions not vague statements. Man, I for sure am not gonna sell out my business strategy to a rando on the internet. And so are many other people.

Never said that lol, you guys can keep putting words in my mouth all you want my point still stands, I want specifics, as in a specific pool of knowledge to start from, that isn't a step by step layout of your strategy, I want the sources you learned from, if you aren't willing to provide even that, then I refer back to what I just told @LukeLukeLuke (in the quote below)

@Knugs @GoodluckChuck @JordanK

they aren't obligated to actually help anyone, but I think one should at least be obligated to not delude themselves into thinking (or acting like) they actually are helping when all they are doing is making themselves feel good for giving google search tier advice (advice they definitely wouldn't give their children).

I'm not the child of anyone here (obviously lol), but if ones advice isn't at least 75% the quality of advice they'd give their own child, then their advice is worthless and I would go as far as saying it is MALICIOUS, because in that case you would literally just be giving someone "half truths" and leading them down a path that is likely prone to failure.

I would prefer someone with a mindset like that to not tell me anything at all period, as their advice is more harmful to my progress than them not telling me anything.

If you are leaving stuff out on purpose because "you aren't family" or insert X reason, then you aren't really giving that person advice, you aren't really helping them at all, you are sending them in a pointless general direction, and if things work out you pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you helped make someone successful, and if they fail well they just didn't try hard enough or do enough research lol (so convenient, win win peace of mind no matter what)

Like I said, I have received specific advice from users in this thread already, some I just quoted, but I'll repeat again, a step by step guide is not required (though that would obviously be preferable), but anything that doesn't include specifics is worthless, and its definitely not the kind of advice you would give to a family member (so you are fully aware that you are artificially lowering the quality of the advice before responding)

From now on the next time you seek to advise someone, ask yourself - "Is this what I would tell a family member", and if it isn't, at least be honest and admit to yourself that its pretty much worthless advice LOL, that's my only point here. What I hate most is the self delusion of people in these places, you know full well you are lowering the quality of your response because the person you are advising MEANS NOTHING TO YOU, but you act as if you are giving them some kind of gift

Again you are under no obligation to help some rando online, but at least feel obligated to be honest with yourself that you aren't REALLY helping them, your advice and instruction quality is artificially lowered for that person, don't act like you are doing this great thing by reducing their google searches from 1000 to 500 lol (and even then they could be searching in the wrong direction)

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Now I think I'm done with this thread, you can continue on speaking ill of me if you like

 

[JordanK]

You are right! I have been lying, I actually got told the SECRET exact STEPS from a leprechaun with a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow here in Ireland! I have only ever shared his enlightened methods with those close to me!

edit:

We’re all stabbing in the dark, testing to see what works and occassionally getting help from someone with a torchlight who can illuminate certain parts of the path. There are no exact steps, just a general direction to go in.

If you don’t believe you are smart enough to make millions why even try? I’m as average as they come by traditional markers, solid C student in school but I can engage with people who know better than me in specific areas while applying a good work ethic along with a try and try again attitude.

 

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[ucantseeme3d]

You are right! I have been lying, I actually got told the SECRET exact STEPS from a leprechaun with a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow here in Ireland! I have only ever shared his enlightened methods with those close to me!

edit:

We’re all stabbing in the dark, testing to see what workers and occassionally getting help from someone with a torchlight who can illuminate certain parts of the path. There are no exact steps, just a general direction to go in.

If you don’t believe you are smart enough to make millions why even try? I’m as average as they come by traditional markers, solid C student in school but I can engage with people who know better than me in specific areas while applying a good work ethic along with a try and try again attitude.

You really haven't read a thing I said have you?

I have yet to ask for someone to give me a step by step guide, I've only asked for the sources they've learned from to get to where they are, if one can't offer those specifics, then I'd say its a stretch to even say they are "advising" anyone

 

[JordanK]

I have learned from probably over 1000 people, 100 books, 200 podcasts, 500 forum posts, 10,000 instant messages, 50 instagram accounts I follow, 5000 google searches, 100 youtube videos, 5 courses, 3 bad tenant experiences, my parents, 10 trips abroad, terrible public school in ireland.

Do you want me to list them all in alphabetical order too?