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Cold Calling - Am I doing this wrong?

Jon L

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Awesome strategy. Fishing with nets. Every single yes you get from a cold call leads lots of yes's in perpetuity. It's like almost a perfect system.

Do they get a kickbackor are they just happy to point their clients in the right direction?
I give them 5% of revenue from the client for the first year the client is with me. I have one IT firm that doesn't want any money. The rest are fine appreciate it.
 
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Jon L

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20 cold calls a day is nothing. If you want to be successful you will want way more than that.
I hear you. But, if my current revenue per call sustains itself, I don't want more business than that for now. Later, yes.
 

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I just need you ppl to know that I was PARTICULARLY kind to a cold caller today and even outlined why their strategy was inherently flawed.

The guy was not amused.
A really good cold caller, if they're relationship-selling B2B, won't have that kind of attitude.
 

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I give them 5% of revenue from the client for the first year the client is with me. I have one IT firm that doesn't want any money. The rest are fine appreciate it.
Pretty impressive. You're literally selling them money they didn't have to work for.

Swing back through on the no's from time to time to let them know how much money they missed out on since your last call. You'll probably have all 200 converted in a few years time.
 
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Jon L

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Pretty impressive. You're literally selling them money they didn't have to work for.

Swing back through on the no's from time to time to let them know how much money they missed out on from your last call. You'll probably have all 200 converted in a few years time.
Yeah...right now, I'm focused on smaller projects. A larger project is multiple hundred thousand dollars, or so. 5% of that is a pretty decent referral fee.
 

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call 200 companies a day for 10 days ...... then you will know. 2 weeks to change your life.
 

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Hey Jon,

There has been some good feedback here.

I am in the financial services business and call businesses for 45 minutes a day and during that time I am able to make somewhere between 25 and 30 calls. That nets me one meeting with a business owner. On a good day I get two meetings booked during that same time. If I do get hold of the contact I want, I'll spend about 10 to 15 minutes with them at most over the phone.

I use Sales Genie as my list source and then I use PhoneBurner which automates my calls. I feed my list into the system and it auto dials for me. I can then sort each call by the outcome. I can send automated emails and I can direct the system to leave a voicemail while it starts to dial the next number. It costs me about USD $165 per month.

I have created a call script that gets me the conversation and the appointments I want. I usually speak with 10 to 15 people per call session and then out of that I usually speak with 2 to 4 business owners (the people I really want to speak with). The rest of the calls are gatekeepers, voicemail, someone taking a message, no answer and bad numbers, etc.

So out of 2 to 4 business contacts I am able to get the 1 to 2 meetings. (Now at least)

For the first few months I was testing out a number of scripts. Some were better than others but mostly they sucked. Then I read the book by Chris Voss, a former FBI hostage negotiator. The book is Never Split the Difference. He helped me understand how to captive someone in a conversation and to use an approach that made the person on the other end of the phone or negotiation feel like they had control (felt safe) when speaking with me while I directed them toward the outcome I want. Once I deployed his approach I started having the success of a 25% to 50% meeting booking ratio.

I have trained sales people on solution selling for years and managed a ERP distribution channel where I was brought in to close sales for our distributors but I could never figure out cold calling until now.

I'd be happy to have a zoom meeting with you where I can show you my systems and process.

I have also started a referral system or process. In a matter of two meetings, using this process I received 24 hand written referrals. (This system is new for me but the company I bought from knows that out of every 8 to 12 referrals I can close 4 to 8 contracts.)

If you have a problem make it a system.

As far as the whole self confidence in calling people. I have some great thoughts on that . I dealt with the less than adequate in the past but they don't even come up for me anymore.

If you want to review my systems and process I'd be happy to connect. Just PM me. Cheers!
 
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Jon L

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Hey Jon,

There has been some good feedback here.

I am in the financial services business and call businesses for 45 minutes a day and during that time I am able to make somewhere between 25 and 30 calls. That nets me one meeting with a business owner. On a good day I get two meetings booked during that same time. If I do get hold of the contact I want, I'll spend about 10 to 15 minutes with them at most over the phone.

I use Sales Genie as my list source and then I use PhoneBurner which automates my calls. I feed my list into the system and it auto dials for me. I can then sort each call by the outcome. I can send automated emails and I can direct the system to leave a voicemail while it starts to dial the next number. It costs me about USD $165 per month.

I have created a call script that gets me the conversation and the appointments I want. I usually speak with 10 to 15 people per call session and then out of that I usually speak with 2 to 4 business owners (the people I really want to speak with). The rest of the calls are gatekeepers, voicemail, someone taking a message, no answer and bad numbers, etc.

So out of 2 to 4 business contacts I am able to get the 1 to 2 meetings. (Now at least)

For the first few months I was testing out a number of scripts. Some were better than others but mostly they sucked. Then I read the book by Chris Voss, a former FBI hostage negotiator. The book is Never Split the Difference. He helped me understand how to captive someone in a conversation and to use an approach that made the person on the other end of the phone or negotiation feel like they had control (felt safe) when speaking with me while I directed them toward the outcome I want. Once I deployed his approach I started having the success of a 25% to 50% meeting booking ratio.

I have trained sales people on solution selling for years and managed a ERP distribution channel where I was brought in to close sales for our distributors but I could never figure out cold calling until now.

I'd be happy to have a zoom meeting with you where I can show you my systems and process.

I have also started a referral system or process. In a matter of two meetings, using this process I received 24 hand written referrals. (This system is new for me but the company I bought from knows that out of every 8 to 12 referrals I can close 4 to 8 contracts.)

If you have a problem make it a system.

As far as the whole self confidence in calling people. I have some great thoughts on that . I dealt with the less than adequate in the past but they don't even come up for me anymore.

If you want to review my systems and process I'd be happy to connect. Just PM me. Cheers!
Malcom, thank you so much for your time today. That process you showed me will greatly improve my efficiency.

Oh, and Chris Voss is the man. Seriously. Lead hostage negotiator for the FBI. The pressure he must have been under...
 

Jon L

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Check out Connect and Sell. Their services might get you connected much faster.

Also I’m working with a coach who owns a 7 figure business, has built it through cold calling and is teaching me cold calling and sales. If you want I can connect you with her, she might be able to help.
Tiago. Thanks so much for the call today. I'm starting to let what you said sink in ... slowly :)
 
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458

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How to characterize myself... I've been plagued by self doubt most of my life. In the past, I really didn't know how to interact with people much at all. Now, I have a pretty decent handle on that. On the sales side, if a prospect has a budget and a project, I can close them 9 times out of 10. Cold calling to find/develop projects is something I would like to get good at.

My current strategy is to partner with IT service companies. These companies will run across custom software projects on occasion (a few times a year). Typically, they don't have anyone to refer people to, and so that client need just goes unfulfilled. I've gotten a few projects this way in the 6 months I've been pursuing this.

If I called 20 companies a day like you said, I'd likely have 40k/month in revenue.

Maybe I'm an idiot and should just do that?

But I also feel like I'm wasting a lot of time when I call. The list I'm using kinda sucks: only about 15 percent of it are companies I actually want to talk to. The rest wouldn't know their clients well enough (either because they only do break/fix, or because their clients are only residential, etc). So, I spend a lot of time looking at websites, marking people off the list, etc. In 2 hours the last time I did this, I made 5 calls and sent 3 emails.

I also wonder if this strategy is the best use of my time. Should I try going direct to potential clients? And, if I do, I wonder if what I'm planning to say is the best strategy.

Here is the thing that you need to realize. No one cares about your success or your business processes and how you decide to structure your time as much as you do. You are not paying me for advise, therefore I have zero incentives to lie to you or keep you sending me fee money.

You can hire 1,000 coaching and consultants, none of them have done what i have done in the amount of time i have done it with zero background or experience doing it.

Here is the bottom line, take it how you want:

You are 200% responsible for building through trial error/blood sweat & tears all lead generation processes(buying lists is bullshit, ive never bought a list in my life), scripts, email templates, follow up processes, and manual material of YOUR sales cycle that can be later systematized and automated through fronters and closers on a dialer driven system. NO ONE and i don't care how much you believe otherwise, is EVER going to produce these things for you to the degree that you can produce them yourself. The difference between success and failure is truly decided right here. There are no shortcuts, you won't find one no matter how long you search on here or otherwise. Just get to work.

In this life you are either closing or being closed, the cold call game is harsh and brutal and the industry is a sharks den. Lead brokers will take every penny you have on all lies. No one cares about you making money, only you do..

Its blood sweat and tears on that first go around, but what you learn is so valuable you can flip into into the next venture and make billions. It's that or pay everyone else to "coach you" and "figure it out for you". Your last hire in that sequence is a bankruptcy attorney.

Good luck!
 

Jon L

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Here is the thing that you need to realize. No one cares about your success or your business processes and how you decide to structure your time as much as you do. You are not paying me for advise, therefore I have zero incentives to lie to you or keep you sending me fee money.

You can hire 1,000 coaching and consultants, none of them have done what i have done in the amount of time i have done it with zero background or experience doing it.

Here is the bottom line, take it how you want:

You are 200% responsible for building through trial error/blood sweat & tears all lead generation processes(buying lists is bullshit, ive never bought a list in my life), scripts, email templates, follow up processes, and manual material of YOUR sales cycle that can be later systematized and automated through fronters and closers on a dialer driven system. NO ONE and i don't care how much you believe otherwise, is EVER going to produce these things for you to the degree that you can produce them yourself. The difference between success and failure is truly decided right here. There are no shortcuts, you won't find one no matter how long you search on here or otherwise. Just get to work.

In this life you are either closing or being closed, the cold call game is harsh and brutal and the industry is a sharks den. Lead brokers will take every penny you have on all lies. No one cares about you making money, only you do..

Its blood sweat and tears on that first go around, but what you learn is so valuable you can flip into into the next venture and make billions. It's that or pay everyone else to "coach you" and "figure it out for you". Your last hire in that sequence is a bankruptcy attorney.

Good luck!
I needed to hear this like 20 years ago. Not sure I could have done anything with it back then, but you're right.

One question though ... you don't use lead brokers. Do you subscribe to a data service like InfoUSA or DNB?
 
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458

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I needed to hear this like 20 years ago. Not sure I could have done anything with it back then, but you're right.

One question though ... you don't use lead brokers. Do you subscribe to a data service like InfoUSA or DNB?

Hundreds. Public records are at the county level and there are thousands of counties all with their own systems. I go direct on everything, and have cut out the middle man at every level of the lead production process.
 

Jon L

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Hundreds. Public records are at the county level and there are thousands of counties all with their own systems. I go direct on everything, and have cut out the middle man at every level of the lead production process.
wow. This is cool. Do you find that the county websites are more up to date? I'm looking at SalesGenie right now, and a good portion of the list I just created are dead ... their websites don't work (I have no interest in talking to a computer support company with a website that doesn't work)
 

458

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wow. This is cool. Do you find that the county websites are more up to date? I'm looking at SalesGenie right now, and a good portion of the list I just created are dead ... their websites don't work (I have no interest in talking to a computer support company with a website that doesn't work)

Every county and document type has a different cycle times but on average they post online twice per day. Some are free and some are paid. Most allow download by PDF, some are Tiff images only.

Going this route gives me a lead time of two weeks on average over everyone that's still in my space, pretty sure I put almost everyone under. If I call you today, you won't hear from any of my competition for a week or two.
 
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Jon L

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Every county and document type has a different cycle times but on average they post online twice per day. Some are free and some are paid. Most allow download by PDF, some are Tiff images only.

Going this route gives me a lead time of two weeks on average over everyone that's still in my space, pretty sure I put almost everyone under. If I call you today, you won't hear from any of my competition for a week or two.
which is why you say 'do this yourself.' The average coach wouldn't even think about that unless they'd done exactly what you'd done previously.
 

458

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which is why you say 'do this yourself.' The average coach wouldn't even think about that unless they'd done exactly what you'd done previously.

99 percent of people that write books or coach never did what they're claiming they did.

Only reason any of us is here is because MJ did what he said he did first and then wrote a book. He doesn't coach or consult that I am aware of and I've been around here for a long long time.
 

Jon L

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99 percent of people that write books or coach never did what they're claiming they did.

Only reason any of us is here is because MJ did what he said he did first and then wrote a book. He doesn't coach or consult that I am aware of and I've been around here for a long long time.
So ... I was going through SalesGenie some more and got more and more annoyed by the quality of the leads. Half the websites of companies I clicked on didn't work, most of the rest were not companies I wanted to talk to. I don't like the idea of paying $1500 for a service I'm going to be annoyed with for the next year.

Then, thinking about what @458 said, I realized that ALL users of a particular software product would be exactly the kind of companies I want to talk to. This software is pricey, and you wouldn't sign up for it unless you were an established Managed IT Services provider. A quick google search turned up 55 companies I can call. I'm sure that another google search or two would turn up quite a few more. There are 100,000 users of this particular package.
 
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Andy Black

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As one of the TropicalMBA podcasts said: our market is an “established cashflow”. What do people already spend money on that indicates they’d hire you?
 

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I own a small company with a team overseas that builds custom software for businesses. I've made enough to pay for the expenses of a family of four, in an expensive city, but not much more. The reason I haven't made more is that my sales skills have been lacking. That's changed, though, and I've gotten a lot better at it. At this point, if a prospect has a project and the budget, I can easily talk them into using me. I do that by listening and giving the client what they want (a development company that cares, understands their business, will help them build what they truly need instead of what they think they need, and will support them long-term).

Recently, I've cold called IT service companies, talking with them about a 'potential partnership' where I provide software programming services to their clients. Out of 200 calls over the last 6 months, I've netted about $25k. That's not a bad return on 200 calls, but I need to ramp things up dramatically. (I had several other large projects that are now concluding that were supporting me). Out of those 200 calls, I had probably 20-40 conversations and about 5 companies that have said that they want to direct clients my way. Out of the five, 2 have already given me clients, and will continue to do so. The others, I'm nurturing.

By the way, even though I have clients that rave about me, I haven't gotten too much referral business. I talked to a recent client a month ago, for example. He said, 'by the way, I mentioned your name to a friend of mine.' Now that I think about it, I probably should have asked for that friend's name and phone number. Overall, though, my best source of leads has been service firms that know the business needs of large numbers of clients. I do get former clients that have me do a fair amount of additional work for them.

So: a few questions:
1) Calling IT companies that support the computers and networks of other businesses is an easy sell. When I do find someone that's open to working with me, we have a great conversation. We'll often end up talking for an hour or more. Is this the best use of my time, or should I try calling companies that might need my services directly?

2) The list I'm using, from Dunn & Bradstreet, no less, is frustrating to use. I'd guess that only 15% of the companies on it are my target market (IT companies that support small to midsized businesses, and are themselves decent size (10+ employees, min). The rest are companies that fix iphones, repair laptops, or generally have a very small mindset and probably don't gross more than $50k per year. These types of companies would never have a conversation with a client about their custom software needs. I find that I spend a lot of time sifting through this mess. In 2 hours yesterday, I sent 3 emails and called 5 companies. Is this normal?

3) How do I know if I'm using my cold calling time effectively? I've read books that say that I should be making 10-20 dials per hour, and not spending much time researching prior to making the call.

Thanks!




oh my. I read the first few sentences and thinking this person is stuck in the similar situation as me. Turned out we live in the same city... Sorry a little off topic here. Bellevue is expensive.
 

Jon L

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oh my. I read the first few sentences and thinking this person is stuck in the similar situation as me. Turned out we live in the same city... Sorry a little off topic here. Bellevue is expensive.
Bellevue ain't cheap, that's for sure.
 
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I own a small company with a team overseas that builds custom software for businesses. I've made enough to pay for the expenses of a family of four, in an expensive city, but not much more. The reason I haven't made more is that my sales skills have been lacking. That's changed, though, and I've gotten a lot better at it. At this point, if a prospect has a project and the budget, I can easily talk them into using me. I do that by listening and giving the client what they want (a development company that cares, understands their business, will help them build what they truly need instead of what they think they need, and will support them long-term).

Recently, I've cold called IT service companies, talking with them about a 'potential partnership' where I provide software programming services to their clients. Out of 200 calls over the last 6 months, I've netted about $25k. That's not a bad return on 200 calls, but I need to ramp things up dramatically. (I had several other large projects that are now concluding that were supporting me). Out of those 200 calls, I had probably 20-40 conversations and about 5 companies that have said that they want to direct clients my way. Out of the five, 2 have already given me clients, and will continue to do so. The others, I'm nurturing.

By the way, even though I have clients that rave about me, I haven't gotten too much referral business. I talked to a recent client a month ago, for example. He said, 'by the way, I mentioned your name to a friend of mine.' Now that I think about it, I probably should have asked for that friend's name and phone number. Overall, though, my best source of leads has been service firms that know the business needs of large numbers of clients. I do get former clients that have me do a fair amount of additional work for them.

So: a few questions:
1) Calling IT companies that support the computers and networks of other businesses is an easy sell. When I do find someone that's open to working with me, we have a great conversation. We'll often end up talking for an hour or more. Is this the best use of my time, or should I try calling companies that might need my services directly?

2) The list I'm using, from Dunn & Bradstreet, no less, is frustrating to use. I'd guess that only 15% of the companies on it are my target market (IT companies that support small to midsized businesses, and are themselves decent size (10+ employees, min). The rest are companies that fix iphones, repair laptops, or generally have a very small mindset and probably don't gross more than $50k per year. These types of companies would never have a conversation with a client about their custom software needs. I find that I spend a lot of time sifting through this mess. In 2 hours yesterday, I sent 3 emails and called 5 companies. Is this normal?

3) How do I know if I'm using my cold calling time effectively? I've read books that say that I should be making 10-20 dials per hour, and not spending much time researching prior to making the call.

Thanks!
I am very new to this forum, but I do want to make a contribution. I have recently listened to a book on the topic that helped me. Fanatical Prospecting by Jeb Blount.

Below is the link to the book in Audible:

I hope this helps.
 

Jon L

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I am very new to this forum, but I do want to make a contribution. I have recently listened to a book on the topic that helped me. Fanatical Prospecting by Jeb Blount.

Below is the link to the book in Audible:

I hope this helps.
Excellent book. Seriously. I just finished reading it myself.
 

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Might be off topic but Outsourcing my Appointment Setting & Cold calling was one of the best things that I did.

Having someone who strictly just focuses on hitting the dials and has nothing else to worry about speeds things up big time. I'm actually looking to hire my second appointment setter.
 
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Hey @Jon L - I think I have a pretty good tip for you, which is a strategy I've developed a few months ago.

One tactic that massively boosts cold-call conversion rate, is to find relevant companies and first advertise to them on LinkedIn (you can pick names of companies to advertise to their employees) before you cold-call them.

Run a few awareness ads with your main value-proposition, but nothing too complex - all you want is for them to associate a name to a face. Focus on showing your name and your face on the ads because this will increase your conversion rate (people trust other people and not voices on the phone).

After a few days, try calling them, and just introduce yourself - they will be much more receptive because the cold-call will not be so cold.

They will be much warmer to you because they've seen and read about you on LinkedIn in a non-intruse way (such as sales cold-call).

You can pull this hack for about 10-20$ a month, to reach anywhere from 50-100 companies.

The results are phenomenal and since you're B2B, this strategy is perfect for you.

Let me know if you need any help!
 

Jon L

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Hey @Jon L - I think I have a pretty good tip for you, which is a strategy I've developed a few months ago.

One tactic that massively boosts cold-call conversion rate, is to find relevant companies and first advertise to them on LinkedIn (you can pick names of companies to advertise to their employees) before you cold-call them.

Run a few awareness ads with your main value-proposition, but nothing too complex - all you want is for them to associate a name to a face. Focus on showing your name and your face on the ads because this will increase your conversion rate (people trust other people and not voices on the phone).

After a few days, try calling them, and just introduce yourself - they will be much more receptive because the cold-call will not be so cold.

They will be much warmer to you because they've seen and read about you on LinkedIn in a non-intruse way (such as sales cold-call).

You can pull this hack for about 10-20$ a month, to reach anywhere from 50-100 companies.

The results are phenomenal and since you're B2B, this strategy is perfect for you.

Let me know if you need any help!
I like that a LOT
 

Andy Black

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In the same vein @Jon L... run paid search ads to a page and do reverse IP lookups.
 

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