Cannot even get 1 meeting with potential customers

[Itizn]

Pick


Up


The


Phone

 

[Andy Black]

Ok, I see, yes that’s interesting. How do you filter for those who may need your help vs those who don’t? Because at the moment, your questions/comments seem to be totally unrelated to what you do (Google Ads or generating leads etc), so even if they reply you’ll have no better idea if they may be a good fit for you or not!

I’m not thinking that transactionally. I’m literally engaging as I go… “bouncing around” I call it.

I saw an interesting ad on Facebook, replied to it to boost it in the algorithm and to give the guy encouragement, observed the video didn’t have subtitles so messaged him about it, then insta-bought and messaged him again telling him well done and giving a wee tip about how else he could help people.

I’d have been very surprised if he didn’t reply, even just to say thanks.

Now I’m going through his eBook I’ve more ideas on how he could improve his ad and his initial offer. It’s no skin off my nose to message him those thoughts.

So what’s likely to happen?

He’s likely to check me out, even just out of curiosity.

“Oh, he’s a Google Ads guy.”

Will he hire me? Very very unlikely, but that’s not why I helped him.

What he knows now:

1. I’m genuine.
2. I’m helpful.
3. I’m know a thing or two about lead gen, funnels, and digital marketing in general.
4. I’m likely someone good to know.
5. I’m likely someone he can refer people to and I won’t be a dick and make him regret it.
6. I’m a Google Ads guy.

I do this whenever I hop onto social media platforms, including this forum.

I’ve also been doing it for 10+ years.

Each day it doesn’t take long, but that’s a LOT of people out there who think of me as helpful, genuine, knowledgeable about digital marketing, and a “Google Ads Guy” specifically.

That brings a lot of referrals and interesting introductions.

I get to learn sooo much from people.

It’s made me a better person.

It’s made me a better conversationalist and business person too.

I take it further and hop on calls at the drop of a hat and help people. Some became podcast episodes. Most I didn’t record. I’m starting to record them again with the idea of getting a VA/team to pull out short videos. I’ll post to various social media platforms. I’ll message them when I do (and prior if I think it needs their permission).

Seems like a lot of effort helping people every day right?

1) I enjoy it. I can’t NOT do it (hence trying to restrict my time on the social media platforms!)

2) I believe in my bones it comes back tenfold.


I know some people reading this won’t get it. They’ll think I’m employing some sneaky method to slide into people’s DMs.

I learned that’s just because they’re not wired like me.

I discuss this on a call with @Kak .

 

[Miketing]

Based on the approach you've been taking for outreach, there's no way to know whether your product solves a big enough problem or not. You simply haven't been doing it right.

You need to first of all:

1. Figure out who your ideal client is
Would this really be "somebody in Digital Marketing"? How is digital marketing related to this? Would someone in digital marketing be making the decisions on dropping in your product? What does your ideal client actually care about? What problems are they having? If someone in digital marketing wanted more traffic, they'd just do the usual types of marketing.

2. Clarify your value proposition
How would dropping in your software even help to drive traffic? Is traffic even what they care about? Or is it something like more sales or customer happiness and higher lifetime value?
Businesses care about making money, saving money, and saving time. Where does your product fit into that?

3. Create a strong offer
"Since the softwares complement each other nicely, I think there is an opportunity for [company] and [my app] to both benefit" - It sounds like you're just leaving it up to them to figure out how you would help them. What are you actually proposing here? How would the collaboration work?

4. Stop pitching in your LinkedIn connection request
Build some rapport first. You can hint at how you can help, but you need to show you can provide value to them first. The only exception to this is if you have a very strong offer, which I don't see being the case here.

5. Actually personalise your outreach messages
The example you posted could just be copy and pasted to anyone in that industry. It needs to be so personalised that it couldn't be sent to anyone else in the world and make sense. This is even more important in small niches where you don't have a huge target market to burn through.

6. Test different call to actions
At the moment, you've just been asking them if they're interested. What other options could you try though? What value could you propose to them? Is there some kind of PDF or video you could share on your product? A free trial? A quick call where you would give them some kind of value?

7. Send. More. Messages.
I don't know how many people you've contacted so far, but it doesn't sound like a lot. You need to be doing high volume. If there's not a large market, then follow up with every person you contact on multiple channels. Send followup emails. Interact with their posts on LinkedIn. Cold call them. Send them a letter even.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Itizn]

Fair enough but these are large pharma companies. Who would I call?

Everyone who wants to make big deals calls "large (market) companies".

Even when I was just starting (aka a "nobody" in the game) I called every large oilfield company in the United States and Canada. Didn't know who to speak to or what to say.

Guess what? After enough committment, repetition, and not giving a damn about what others think, you slowly begin to figure it out.

Make a list of 100 companies, call them, and let us know how it goes.

Just don't hide behind a keyboard like most developers/software/tech guys do.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ZCP]

You call what I've done barely trying?

yep. 10x minimum what you are doing.

I sent 70 linkedin messages myself this week. and i own the company. and am NOT in our marketing / sales department. up your game.

you have no results. either you don't have enough hooks in the water (expect 1% to 2% response), your pitch does not give perceived value, or you are in the wrong channel.

if i gave you $1M to get someone on the phone TODAY, what would you do?

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Your email copy sucks balls. There is no intrigue, no nothing. You run a software app for cypo whatever. Big deal.

What’s the intrigue? What’s the hook?

 

[Happyheart]

As a matter of fact I am experienced in flow cytometry. You are right that this is a niche product that may be most interesting to the companies producing the equipment.

You email would probably land in my spam folder. This may work for a shoe shop, but I would recommend another approach:
1. look for the product lead or product specialist at the company. It should at least be someone who has some power. It may be
2. give them a call and tell them very nicely; this is Dr so and do from <your company>. I hope you may be able to help me or tell me who would be the correct person to talk to.
3. Explain the summary of your matter in less than 20 seconds.
4. be very friendly if you speak to people and most people actually like to be asked to help, because it makes them feel gracious and important.
5. repeat the call with another department as necessary.
6. speak about what your product can do for them, delete all I‘s from your mail and focus on how your product can make their company thrive.
7. write an abstract and go to a relevant conference or write an article in a scientific journal. You will be viewed as the expert while you will be holding a sales pitch for a full 10 minutes and all the interested experts will be there and people will come to you. This will also make your product more serious and attractive.

 

[Edgar King]

I believe you need to get in front of the person who needs this.

I'd say it's a bit like how you can't just knock on the door of a family who needs a dog and speak to the maid who answers about dog offers. Until the information gets to the parents not the children, no deal is going to occur. The maid simply, does not personally have this hole (need).

You need to get in front of the person who needs and is willing and able to pay for your offer.

You could find and message/call the person who's most likely to care about increasing traffic to their website e.g. head of digital marketing or CEO of the company (Call the company, and ask to be redirected to them by giving their name). Then, you'll first want to confirm if they care about increasing web traffic on the call. If they are, you can then introduce your app as the solution to getting them what they want, this way you'll at least get a response.

"Hey x, I was wondering if you guys were interested in increasing web traffic?"

Yes? Go for it.

No? Nothing you say from this point on will matter because there will be no hole for you to fill.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ZCP]

Summary:
I barely tried a little and haven't gotten massive results. Yep.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Hi
I posted before about software I developed that allows people to analyse flow cytometry experiments in their browser. Its extremely niche and at this point Im trying to just make something from it, I'd be happy with 500 euro a month. I've tried different business models for the software, mainly B to C and I've come to the conclusion it doesn't work. End users - biomedical researchers in Universities and labs mainly - will simply not pay for it.

There are about 20 major players in the market. These are medium to large pharma companies. One of the biggest is Thermofisher. Thermo and the others sell the machines, but also provide a webapp to drive people who are doing their experiments to their sites. All 20 players have the same type of simple webapp (simple software to help set up flow cytometry experiments). I want to propose to them that they could drop in the software I developed (I have bundled as a Javascript library) and 1/ drive more traffic to their site as it works nicely alongside their existing webapp 2/ helps their product portfolio since I track experiment data and can feed this back to the company.

However, I cannot believe how difficult it is to get even the tiniest bit of engagement. I have a live site with daily users in labs around the world - its not like Im selling nothing.

My strike rate over the last 2 months is approximately:

For every 70 emails I send, I get 1 reply, this tends to be "contact this person" - I contact them and no reply.

For every 30 LinkedIn connect request "with note" I get 1 connection. I follow up with a fuller message, I get no reply.

For every "inmail" LinkedIn (I started paying) I have never gotten a reply.


Now I dont know if this is specific to the industry, to the size of the companies (medium to large), or if cold approach in every form is now dead due to overwhelming amounts of spam in email and on LinkedIn, or Im just a horrible seller. I dont blame my software as I cant get to the point of anyone actually replying to me.

When Im sending an email/message, I spend time researching the company and person, and I personalise it. Here's an example of the email I recently sent to 30 or so people in various pharma companies in the area:

Hi Gil

I came across your profile on LinkedIn as I've been looking for somebody in Digital Marketing within [company].

I run a cytometry analysis app [my website] and many of my users use [company] Full Spectrum Viewer alongside my app.

Since both softwares complement each other really nicely, I think there's a good opportunity here to drive more traffic to [company]'s website. Is this something you're interested in doing?

Thanks
Mark

PS My LinkedIn profile is [url to my LinkedIn]



The email subject was "drive more traffic to [company]"


This got zero replies.

Here is the LinkedIn note:

Hi Eric, reaching out as I'm the founder of a app [link to my app] that users often use alongside [companys]'s spectra viewer. Since the softwares complement each other nicely, I think there is an opportunity for [company] and [my app] to both benefit. Would love to connect.


Sent to 50 or so people with 0 connecting so far.

I have tried variations on the above for months with similar results.

I am completely exasperated. I'm at the point of giving up and throwing the software in the bin and moving on to something else but there's a nagging "If I cant get meetings for this, how am I going to get meetings and sell the next thing I work on"?

Now I know getting the foot in the door is only the first step. One of these companies actually contacted me themselves and we had 7 meetings before they pulled the plug saying the software didn't pass UAT by an external consultant. Very frustrating as it was one consultant's opinion and the internal team at the company were supportive of the software and wanted to proceed. So I know how hard it is to get the said over the line but I cannot believe how hard it is to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder!

Anyone with any advice, I'd be grateful. Anyone who thinks they can sell anything, Im open to a chat too (warning this is super niche and a tiny market as the software stands right now).

It seems like you’re selling something when you connect via LinkedIn. Why not try getting into a *genuine* conversation first and then seeing where that goes?

Also, what will they find if they check out your profile before responding? Will it help them trust you? Can they read a few posts or articles related to what you do?

I’ve been active on LinkedIn for about a week after not doing much for years. I’ve had loads of wee message conversations and even one chat with someone who wanted to hire me (I sent them off to do some homework instead).

Talk us through how you’re finding someone to contact.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Ok, so what sort of message do you have in mind then?

The only ones I’ve seen work which are not “pitchy” is asking them about a problem. For example, for FB ads, “have you considered using an isometric creative to increase conversions back to pre-iOS changes”? Then they’re like uhh what’s that, tell me more!

Funny you ask.

I'm literally back after bouncing around on Facebook and LinkedIn. I sent a few PM's to people who I'd interacted with in their posts.

I'll often tell them I liked something they posted and that I probably replied to. Then I go into a quick deep-dive of their account/profile and comment on that. Sometimes (often) I'll come across some typo, broken link, or whatever and mention that too.

Then I'm on my way.

1) Here's one this evening...






2) For another guy, I'd replied to his great LinkedIn post with a thoughtful response, then shared his post to my timeline. I checked out his profile and About and was going to let him know he had a broken link but I've run out of LinkedIn in message things.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Itizn]

Quit and start over if you'd like.

You'll continue to run into the same obstacle until you commit to improving your outreach and prospecting strategies.

Basically every post in here was about that being the problem, not necessarily the product.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Based on the approach you've been taking for outreach, there's no way to know whether your product solves a big enough problem or not. You simply haven't been doing it right.

You need to first of all:

1. Figure out who your ideal client is
Would this really be "somebody in Digital Marketing"? How is digital marketing related to this? Would someone in digital marketing be making the decisions on dropping in your product? What does your ideal client actually care about? What problems are they having? If someone in digital marketing wanted more traffic, they'd just do the usual types of marketing.

2. Clarify your value proposition
How would dropping in your software even help to drive traffic? Is traffic even what they care about? Or is it something like more sales or customer happiness and higher lifetime value?
Businesses care about making money, saving money, and saving time. Where does your product fit into that?

3. Create a strong offer
"Since the softwares complement each other nicely, I think there is an opportunity for [company] and [my app] to both benefit" - It sounds like you're just leaving it up to them to figure out how you would help them. What are you actually proposing here? How would the collaboration work?

4. Stop pitching in your LinkedIn connection request
Build some rapport first. You can hint at how you can help, but you need to show you can provide value to them first. The only exception to this is if you have a very strong offer, which I don't see being the case here.

5. Actually personalise your outreach messages
The example you posted could just be copy and pasted to anyone in that industry. It needs to be so personalised that it couldn't be sent to anyone else in the world and make sense. This is even more important in small niches where you don't have a huge target market to burn through.

6. Test different call to actions
At the moment, you've just been asking them if they're interested. What other options could you try though? What value could you propose to them? Is there some kind of PDF or video you could share on your product? A free trial? A quick call where you would give them some kind of value?

7. Send. More. Messages.
I don't know how many people you've contacted so far, but it doesn't sound like a lot. You need to be doing high volume. If there's not a large market, then follow up with every person you contact on multiple channels. Send followup emails. Interact with their posts on LinkedIn. Cold call them. Send them a letter even.

^^^ This.

You haven't figured out how to sell to people yet or what to sell. I'd get super specific about every single connection request. You're trying to get people on a call so you can learn from them what real pain points your product can solve.



More importantly... if you've already got 5,000 free users then can you get some of them to pay?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ZCP]

Damn, dude. Lot of heavy hitters here to help you.
So you bail?

Maybe take a few days, come back with some seriousness, and make a run using the help.
Can always use the experience for future projects.

You've spent ALL this time and bail before putting in two more days.
Sounds like entrepreneurship may not be for you?

Maybe get this thread closed, then start a new one with the actual full problem and full info?
Or hire someone to help you diagnose the real root cause and chase it out.
You could even be starting something else at the same time.
Just seems solvable.

 

[Andy Black]

Some feedback from a marketing agency owner who deals with pharma companies. He was happy for me to post it here.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Two Dog]

Why do you think busy medium-large pharma executives have time for a “genuine” conversation?

Well, they don't. I spent too many years selling a few million dollars worth of software to such people. Not exactly my go-to earnings strategy any more (Thank God), but I learned a lot about endlessly pushing the rock uphill and closing deals regardless.

@zander1983

There's really only two ways of contacting those people. You either reach them directly or you get referred up the food chain from a lower level manager. That's it. The pitchy email is garbage. Complete waste of time even writing it much less sending it. Start by identifying who you should be contacting in the first place. That's Step 1 in the sales process. You can't possibly expect anyone here to answer that without an in-depth knowledge of the industry, your product and what problems it solves. Sorry to sound harsh, but that's *your* job.

Have you studied or learned ANYTHING about direct response marketing? About selling complex solutions to executives? About how to generate interest by offering lead magnets in the form of white papers, industry analysis studies or webinars? About getting industry news rags to write an article about your product? About using PR?

Hit Amazon Books, search for "selling enterprise software" and start reading up.

 

[Hong_Kong]

Hi
I posted before about software I developed that allows people to analyse flow cytometry experiments in their browser. Its extremely niche and at this point Im trying to just make something from it, I'd be happy with 500 euro a month. I've tried different business models for the software, mainly B to C and I've come to the conclusion it doesn't work. End users - biomedical researchers in Universities and labs mainly - will simply not pay for it.

There are about 20 major players in the market. These are medium to large pharma companies. One of the biggest is Thermofisher. Thermo and the others sell the machines, but also provide a webapp to drive people who are doing their experiments to their sites. All 20 players have the same type of simple webapp (simple software to help set up flow cytometry experiments). I want to propose to them that they could drop in the software I developed (I have bundled as a Javascript library) and 1/ drive more traffic to their site as it works nicely alongside their existing webapp 2/ helps their product portfolio since I track experiment data and can feed this back to the company.

However, I cannot believe how difficult it is to get even the tiniest bit of engagement. I have a live site with daily users in labs around the world - its not like Im selling nothing.

My strike rate over the last 2 months is approximately:

For every 70 emails I send, I get 1 reply, this tends to be "contact this person" - I contact them and no reply.

For every 30 LinkedIn connect request "with note" I get 1 connection. I follow up with a fuller message, I get no reply.

For every "inmail" LinkedIn (I started paying) I have never gotten a reply.


Now I dont know if this is specific to the industry, to the size of the companies (medium to large), or if cold approach in every form is now dead due to overwhelming amounts of spam in email and on LinkedIn, or Im just a horrible seller. I dont blame my software as I cant get to the point of anyone actually replying to me.

When Im sending an email/message, I spend time researching the company and person, and I personalise it. Here's an example of the email I recently sent to 30 or so people in various pharma companies in the area:

Hi Gil

I came across your profile on LinkedIn as I've been looking for somebody in Digital Marketing within [company].

I run a cytometry analysis app [my website] and many of my users use [company] Full Spectrum Viewer alongside my app.

Since both softwares complement each other really nicely, I think there's a good opportunity here to drive more traffic to [company]'s website. Is this something you're interested in doing?

Thanks
Mark

PS My LinkedIn profile is [url to my LinkedIn]



The email subject was "drive more traffic to [company]"


This got zero replies.

Here is the LinkedIn note:

Hi Eric, reaching out as I'm the founder of a app [link to my app] that users often use alongside [companys]'s spectra viewer. Since the softwares complement each other nicely, I think there is an opportunity for [company] and [my app] to both benefit. Would love to connect.


Sent to 50 or so people with 0 connecting so far.

I have tried variations on the above for months with similar results.

I am completely exasperated. I'm at the point of giving up and throwing the software in the bin and moving on to something else but there's a nagging "If I cant get meetings for this, how am I going to get meetings and sell the next thing I work on"?

Now I know getting the foot in the door is only the first step. One of these companies actually contacted me themselves and we had 7 meetings before they pulled the plug saying the software didn't pass UAT by an external consultant. Very frustrating as it was one consultant's opinion and the internal team at the company were supportive of the software and wanted to proceed. So I know how hard it is to get the said over the line but I cannot believe how hard it is to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder!

Anyone with any advice, I'd be grateful. Anyone who thinks they can sell anything, Im open to a chat too (warning this is super niche and a tiny market as the software stands right now).

This makes sense. Two points:

1. For cold email (which seems like your tactic) to work, you need a decent amount of volume. The response rate you mentioned isn't bad for cold email (I don't really use cold email much). For people doing cold outreach, they send 100+ emails per day. If you want to get a higher response rate you can personalize the email more.

2. Its possible this is due to customer demand. Your product was really advanced and interesting, but a product fundalmentaly should be a 'pain killer' not a 'vitamin'. In other words you want to a product that solves a burning issue people face. You want your customers to be aware that they have a problem, and be willing to spend money on the solution. In my opinion, this is one of the most challenging parts of the business process but worth it to get it right. Your product could be more in the category of something nice to have, but doesn't solve a pressing issue.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I didn’t say pitch friendship. I’m suggesting a less “pitchy” first message.

Ok, so what sort of message do you have in mind then?

The only ones I’ve seen work which are not “pitchy” is asking them about a problem. For example, for FB ads, “have you considered using an isometric creative to increase conversions back to pre-iOS changes”? Then they’re like uhh what’s that, tell me more!

 

[Andy Black]

It's not clear who you help, what you help them with, and how you do it.

Let's say you cold messaged your ideal prospect, or they read something you posted, or they read a comment you wrote on a post by some thought leader they follow.

They'll likely check out your profile.

Would they *immediately* see you help people exactly like them to solve the problem they have that they want to get rid of?

Treat your profile like a landing page.

You've your banner/header area which you've left blank and which is a missed opportunity.

The photo looks good imo. Friendly and approachable.

The headline/title doesn't mention you've got 5,000 users signed up. Should you mention "Software Engineer and part-time farmer."? (Not saying not to. Maybe it helps let people know more about you as a person.)

Your About section should be more about them and less about you. Go into more detail about who you help, what you help them with, and how you do it.

People might spot your featured posts. What are they about? Are they related to what you do? Will they be intrigued, want to read them, and get some actionable tips while getting to know what you do?


Get your profile sorted, then maybe we can discuss who you're trying to reach out to.

Who do you help?

What do you help them with?

How do you do it?



For context, here's my work in progress. It's not perfect by any means, but I lead with "Google Ads Freelancer". That's enough imo for people to know what I do. (Note that I have Creator mode ON so my profile options are likely different from yours.)

Go create a swipe file of good profiles you come across that make it obvious what they do and who they help.





Here's my Featured section. I want to create a couple more articles to feature in here.

 

[Johnny boy]

Post stuff on linkedin in your industry and people will take notice.

My buddy sells sonar utility detection equipment. Like the guys that come mark paint lines on the road to indicate where gas lines are. He sells the equipment as a dealer and makes bank.

He gets a lot of business by posting content on linkedin. He's gotten about 300k impressions on his videos and content. Not a ton, but its a lot for the type of business he's in. It's gotten him lots of more deals.

You should find a better way to show yourself to your customer. Cold calling isn't working. Change up your strategy. If you're even sure that it's a useful and helpful solution.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Thanks Andy, you've been a great help. I slowly realised this, that pharma companies want everything proprietary. In fact, I spend a long time working on "standardisation" across machines so that experiments are reproducable. This seemed like a great idea to me. Turns out, pharma companies dont want that. They want their machines to be slightly different as it prevents existing customers from leaving. Honestly, the app is not amazing. Its a web version of existing heavy-duty desktop software, with about 30% of the functionality of that software - all the important stuff to cover about 75% of all flow experiments. My thinking was "well if I make an easily accessible browser version, only coding the key functionality, and these softwares make 2k per customer per year, then I'll make 1k". When I released the software in 2018 it was quite useful. However I never pushed on (personal circumstances). Since then a few similar (and now probably better apps) have emerged. Now Im pushing a white-label version of it (thats what I was trying to sell in those emails and linked in message) but honestly, I dont think the software is up to scratch. And no way am I putting in more time in trying to improve it.

So....I used to work for TreeStar. Is this an approved white label offshoot, or are you pirating someone's code? because there's issues, and those issues apply to your potential customers.

Why should anyone, let alone the big players, who move at the speed of sloth moss, change up their system for a lightweight version of something they're already using? What EXACT experiments can your version do, and what are the EXACT time and money savings.

Run side by side visual examples, and start showing them to the researchers. The researchers are not the purchasers, but if the tool is good enough, they'll open channels for you.

If you want to get your code baked in to the cytometers, you need to hit a couple of conferences and start talking to people. They won't respond to vague LinkedIn stuff; they're not even paying attention to that. You need a COMPELLING REASON they should drop in your stuff rather than whatever they're using now.

The flow cytometry world is small. Very small. Tread politely, and offer a real solution to a real problem.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[LightHouse]

Dropping in to pour gas on the fire here cause all the heavy hitters came out.

All these tactics are great. I'd propose your entire purpose is missing.

So long before deploying all these tactics.... I would say, that the market doesn't really care if you feel like you are entitled to compensation.

You mention you just want to get something out of it... that's good for you... and no one else.

********** Then I scroll through and see that you came to that conclusion... the correct one. That this product doesn't solve a big enough problem, or doesn't solve it well enough, or the problem it self is non-existent.

There are a lot of interesting and novel products out there that aren't commercially viable.

My suggestion, open source the code, and move on. See if anyone can pick up where you left off for some application you don't even know about, better than the trash at the end of the day. Then re-focus on building something that you can already see a clear commercial need for and use your talent in that direction.

Anyone here who has had success, also has a trail of failures behind them, just keep at it long enough and you'll find success to some degree. Good luck!

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Why not try getting into a *genuine* conversation first and then seeing where that goes?

Why do you think busy medium-large pharma executives have time for a “genuine” conversation?

If they have time for such conversations they’re not doing their job. Their job is to bring profit for their company. Not to chit chat and have fun with people.

What these people are looking for is ways to grow profitability, expand market share, reduce time. Pitch those things to them, and it may pique their interest. Pitch a “how are you? I’m so happy to be connected!” to them, and they will ignore you.

Only broke people have time for genuine conversations. In all the time I’ve done cold outreach for, only broke people were the ones having genuine conversations.

Every big hitter I came across was on the ball - either I had something that intrigued him, or I was a nuissance. It’s one or the other.

And pitching “friendship” and a “genuine conversation” is your way of saying you’ve got nothing better… since if you did, you’d pitch that.

My 2c and how I see it, no offense meant. I just don’t think this piece of advice has any chance of working.

 

[DougRMR]

Hi Gil

I came across your profile on LinkedIn as I've been looking for somebody in Digital Marketing within [company].

I run a cytometry analysis app [my website] and many of my users use [company] Full Spectrum Viewer alongside my app.

Since both softwares complement each other really nicely, I think there's a good opportunity here to drive more traffic to [company]'s website. Is this something you're interested in doing?

Thanks
Mark

I agree with BlackDragon that the copy is a bit bland. We're not the target audience, mind you, but given what you're saying here you can definitely spruce it up. How about you move the hook (which I'm assuming is the fact you will drive more traffic to [company's] website) to the beginning? You could send this, for example:


Hi Gil

I came across your profile on LinkedIn as I've been looking for somebody in Digital Marketing within [company] and I think there's a good opportunity here to drive more traffic to [company]'s website.

Is this something you're interested in doing?

Thanks
Mark

When you pique their interest, THEN start talking about what exactly your app does. Just a suggestion. I don't do copy professionally but I have been practicing/studying it for a long time now and I think this would be a much better way to approach the outreach.

Maybe @Lex DeVille can chime in. Copywriting is one of his strong suits.

 

[Kevin88660]

Hi
I posted before about software I developed that allows people to analyse flow cytometry experiments in their browser. Its extremely niche and at this point Im trying to just make something from it, I'd be happy with 500 euro a month. I've tried different business models for the software, mainly B to C and I've come to the conclusion it doesn't work. End users - biomedical researchers in Universities and labs mainly - will simply not pay for it.

There are about 20 major players in the market. These are medium to large pharma companies. One of the biggest is Thermofisher. Thermo and the others sell the machines, but also provide a webapp to drive people who are doing their experiments to their sites. All 20 players have the same type of simple webapp (simple software to help set up flow cytometry experiments). I want to propose to them that they could drop in the software I developed (I have bundled as a Javascript library) and 1/ drive more traffic to their site as it works nicely alongside their existing webapp 2/ helps their product portfolio since I track experiment data and can feed this back to the company.

However, I cannot believe how difficult it is to get even the tiniest bit of engagement. I have a live site with daily users in labs around the world - its not like Im selling nothing.

My strike rate over the last 2 months is approximately:

For every 70 emails I send, I get 1 reply, this tends to be "contact this person" - I contact them and no reply.

For every 30 LinkedIn connect request "with note" I get 1 connection. I follow up with a fuller message, I get no reply.

For every "inmail" LinkedIn (I started paying) I have never gotten a reply.


Now I dont know if this is specific to the industry, to the size of the companies (medium to large), or if cold approach in every form is now dead due to overwhelming amounts of spam in email and on LinkedIn, or Im just a horrible seller. I dont blame my software as I cant get to the point of anyone actually replying to me.

When Im sending an email/message, I spend time researching the company and person, and I personalise it. Here's an example of the email I recently sent to 30 or so people in various pharma companies in the area:

Hi Gil

I came across your profile on LinkedIn as I've been looking for somebody in Digital Marketing within [company].

I run a cytometry analysis app [my website] and many of my users use [company] Full Spectrum Viewer alongside my app.

Since both softwares complement each other really nicely, I think there's a good opportunity here to drive more traffic to [company]'s website. Is this something you're interested in doing?

Thanks
Mark

PS My LinkedIn profile is [url to my LinkedIn]



The email subject was "drive more traffic to [company]"


This got zero replies.

Here is the LinkedIn note:

Hi Eric, reaching out as I'm the founder of a app [link to my app] that users often use alongside [companys]'s spectra viewer. Since the softwares complement each other nicely, I think there is an opportunity for [company] and [my app] to both benefit. Would love to connect.


Sent to 50 or so people with 0 connecting so far.

I have tried variations on the above for months with similar results.

I am completely exasperated. I'm at the point of giving up and throwing the software in the bin and moving on to something else but there's a nagging "If I cant get meetings for this, how am I going to get meetings and sell the next thing I work on"?

Now I know getting the foot in the door is only the first step. One of these companies actually contacted me themselves and we had 7 meetings before they pulled the plug saying the software didn't pass UAT by an external consultant. Very frustrating as it was one consultant's opinion and the internal team at the company were supportive of the software and wanted to proceed. So I know how hard it is to get the said over the line but I cannot believe how hard it is to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder!

Anyone with any advice, I'd be grateful. Anyone who thinks they can sell anything, Im open to a chat too (warning this is super niche and a tiny market as the software stands right now).

There is something wrong in your marketing approach. You are in a very niche market as you said. Potential leads to put it optimistically maybe 50-100. You cannot afford to be passive and send some text and expect miracles to happen.

If you are selling to C when you could literally sell to hundreds of thousands of people then its a different game.

You have to grab the phone to call them and by hook or crook force out some appointments with them. Surprise visit at their office if it is in the same city.

The message also seems vague. Do you have quantifiable data to back up your claim that you actually did help people to drive traffic to their website? You should include it in your text.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Itizn]

Oh the product is definitely a major problem - it simply doesnt solve a big enough problem.

Then at the very least hear these words directly from your audience before you throw in the towel on something you admitted to spending so much time on.

Run another outreach campaign, except this time with zero intent to "sell", but rather to get qualified people to hear you and your product out.

Do this right and two very valuable things will happen:

1) You'll actually find out from your ideal users how effective or useful your product is.

2) You'll learn how to initiate dialogue (which means a channel of communication between more than just yourself, just a reminder) with a target audience. In case you do choose to move on, this skill will be there in your arsenal.

P.S. I had a very similar problem and mindset when I was starting out. This thread will detail it.

EXECUTION - NOTABLE! - Had to call it quits today.

Well, one of those threads no one wants to make. Basically the dream came to a sudden halt today, flew too close to the sun and got burned. My last year plus failed to produced enough tangible success and it's time to go back to the slowlane for the time being. General details are that I...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

The difference is I didn't give up, but instead committed to addressing the very same issues you're having. Since that thread was made, I've sold >$100,000 of products (with millions more in the pipeline), expanded my business network to sixteen countries across six continents, learned how to properly reach out to anyone with any job title, and a bunch of other cool shit along the way.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Miketing]

Thanks, very thorough. You know what would give me the motivation? Making a sale. This has been live since 2018 with 5,000 or so signed up users. Guess how many upgraded? 0. Thats why Ive pivoted to B to B via a library integration. But this isnt a case of me giving up at the first hurdle, this has been going a long time (for a couple of years I just left it be, it worked away on its own). For my sanity, I believe it's time to move on.

In the first post you made it sound like your problem was getting any kind of validation for your product. That's clearly not the problem then.

As you've already got validation from 5,000 people, it would actually be a much easier problem to solve.

Giving up after you've got validation sounds even more ridiculous to me. It sounds like you've made your mind up though.

Sorry for being blunt, but did you make this thread to actually get help because you want this to work? Or did you just want to vent about how hard it is and hope to get people to agree with you so that you can validate your decision to give up?

 

[zander1983]

Hi
I posted before about software I developed that allows people to analyse flow cytometry experiments in their browser. Its extremely niche and at this point Im trying to just make something from it, I'd be happy with 500 euro a month. I've tried different business models for the software, mainly B to C and I've come to the conclusion it doesn't work. End users - biomedical researchers in Universities and labs mainly - will simply not pay for it.

There are about 20 major players in the market. These are medium to large pharma companies. One of the biggest is Thermofisher. Thermo and the others sell the machines, but also provide a webapp to drive people who are doing their experiments to their sites. All 20 players have the same type of simple webapp (simple software to help set up flow cytometry experiments). I want to propose to them that they could drop in the software I developed (I have bundled as a Javascript library) and 1/ drive more traffic to their site as it works nicely alongside their existing webapp 2/ helps their product portfolio since I track experiment data and can feed this back to the company.

However, I cannot believe how difficult it is to get even the tiniest bit of engagement. I have a live site with daily users in labs around the world - its not like Im selling nothing.

My strike rate over the last 2 months is approximately:

For every 70 emails I send, I get 1 reply, this tends to be "contact this person" - I contact them and no reply.

For every 30 LinkedIn connect request "with note" I get 1 connection. I follow up with a fuller message, I get no reply.

For every "inmail" LinkedIn (I started paying) I have never gotten a reply.


Now I dont know if this is specific to the industry, to the size of the companies (medium to large), or if cold approach in every form is now dead due to overwhelming amounts of spam in email and on LinkedIn, or Im just a horrible seller. I dont blame my software as I cant get to the point of anyone actually replying to me.

When Im sending an email/message, I spend time researching the company and person, and I personalise it. Here's an example of the email I recently sent to 30 or so people in various pharma companies in the area:

Hi Gil

I came across your profile on LinkedIn as I've been looking for somebody in Digital Marketing within [company].

I run a cytometry analysis app [my website] and many of my users use [company] Full Spectrum Viewer alongside my app.

Since both softwares complement each other really nicely, I think there's a good opportunity here to drive more traffic to [company]'s website. Is this something you're interested in doing?

Thanks
Mark

PS My LinkedIn profile is [url to my LinkedIn]



The email subject was "drive more traffic to [company]"


This got zero replies.

Here is the LinkedIn note:

Hi Eric, reaching out as I'm the founder of a app [link to my app] that users often use alongside [companys]'s spectra viewer. Since the softwares complement each other nicely, I think there is an opportunity for [company] and [my app] to both benefit. Would love to connect.


Sent to 50 or so people with 0 connecting so far.

I have tried variations on the above for months with similar results.

I am completely exasperated. I'm at the point of giving up and throwing the software in the bin and moving on to something else but there's a nagging "If I cant get meetings for this, how am I going to get meetings and sell the next thing I work on"?

Now I know getting the foot in the door is only the first step. One of these companies actually contacted me themselves and we had 7 meetings before they pulled the plug saying the software didn't pass UAT by an external consultant. Very frustrating as it was one consultant's opinion and the internal team at the company were supportive of the software and wanted to proceed. So I know how hard it is to get the said over the line but I cannot believe how hard it is to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder!

Anyone with any advice, I'd be grateful. Anyone who thinks they can sell anything, Im open to a chat too (warning this is super niche and a tiny market as the software stands right now).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

Why do you think busy medium-large pharma executives have time for a “genuine” conversation?

If they have time for such conversations they’re not doing their job. Their job is to bring profit for their company. Not to chit chat and have fun with people.

What these people are looking for is ways to grow profitability, expand market share, reduce time. Pitch those things to them, and it may pique their interest. Pitch a “how are you? I’m so happy to be connected!” to them, and they will ignore you.

Only broke people have time for genuine conversations. In all the time I’ve done cold outreach for, only broke people were the ones having genuine conversations.

Every big hitter I came across was on the ball - either I had something that intrigued him, or I was a nuissance. It’s one or the other.

And pitching “friendship” and a “genuine conversation” is your way of saying you’ve got nothing better… since if you did, you’d pitch that.

My 2c and how I see it, no offense meant. I just don’t think this piece of advice has any chance of working.

I didn’t say pitch friendship. I’m suggesting a less “pitchy” first message.

 

[Happyheart]

And if you do write to serious people in a serious business (after calling), don‘t believe the modern crap about informal style. Borrow an older school book from your parents and go with „Dear Professor Miller,“ I am writing to you regarding the following matter …
and „sincerely“.

In a year or two when you will have gone for a beer with them, maybe you can go informal.

And also, instead of linkedin, you may want to use researchgate, which is also great to highlight your scientific background.