Can money buy happiness? Scientists (finally) say yes.

[N.S.]

BTW, I can tell you that I was much happier driving a Ferrari vs a BMW. You can't even compare the two. But, how would you know? Oh, you read a study.

This.

Almost everyone I know who contradicts this has never actually experienced it. Everyone I know who bought a supercar AND could afford to actually run it, has enjoyed the experience and cherished the memories it's created.

I'll give the data point of me.

When I bought my first Porsche 911, my uncle learned it had been ordered and said to me unsolicited "Buying a Porsche won't make you happy". I replied "I'm not buying it to make me happy, but I think it will be a fun car to have".

The day it arrived I had a HUGE smile on my face. Every time I drove it I had a HUGE smile on my face. Even now years later when I think of that car I have a HUGE smile on my face. It was super fun to drive and I felt good having it.

On the first day, my wife (who is actually a good driver) blew out a tyre. It was no biggie, we laughed about it, called a guy out and he changed it for a new one. So many friends said "Oh if I got a Porsche and my wife did that I'd be so angry".

My response "Why would I care about a $500 tire when I've just dropped $100k on a car? I care that no one got hurt.".

That's the calmness money buys you. The reason ppl get mad is when they stretch to flex, and then some obvious but unforeseen expense comes and the illusion starts slipping.

By the way I drive a BMW these days as I wanted something more practical (435i M Sport Convertible). I love that car too, it is also fun but let me tell you it doesn't make me grin ear to ear like the 911 did. As @biophase says, you can't even compare the two.

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

I haven't experienced it fully but know plenty of people who have. When you earn more than you can spend and you have everything paid for plus passive income and/or investments to pay your bills, your income is free to just buy fun things you want and not just survive or need, it's impossible for that to not make you happy... Because you are totally in control!

Of course - there is more to life than that - family, love, community, values, spiritual purpose. But good luck fulfilling those needs when you are focused on survival.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

This threshold was initially posited by Kahneman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and psychologist, in a 2010 study that concluded that “emotional well-being [also] rises with log income, but there is no further progress beyond an annual income of $75,000.”

lol, what a psyop

 

[Shono]

A better title for "The Secret" would be "The Scam".

This is a new age pseudo-scientific mystical garbage that promises free money and success for the lazy and undeserving.

And the most dangerous part about "The law of attraction" is that it's half true. Which makes it so appealing for a lot of people.

The life we are living is the result of a very complex chain of reactions. This deterministic chain of events starts with our imagination.

What we think and how we view the world will determine what we do. What we do repeatedly, will determine how our future will look like. A -> B, cause and effect.

So yes, we are the creators of our own destiny. But "The secret" encourages people to stop at the imagination stage and perform no action, hoping that the universe will break the natural deterministic rules of how existence is happening, and give us free money.

This is preposterous. This is narcissistic self-delusion.

i think we will agree to disagree, it is a best seller for a reason amigo

 

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[garyfritz]

i think we will agree to disagree, it is a best seller for a reason amigo

Yes -- because it tells people "you don't have to work for what you want, just wish upon a star and The Universe will give it to you." People LOVE that message so they buy the book.

It would be very interesting to see how many people who bought the book GOT the things they said they wanted before they bought it. I would bet big it's a veerrrry small number.

 

[N.S.]

Yes -- because it tells people "you don't have to work for what you want, just wish upon a star and The Universe will give it to you." People LOVE that message so they buy the book.

It would be very interesting to see how many people who bought the book GOT the things they said they wanted before they bought it. I would bet big it's a veerrrry small number.

Agree.

It's a good example of a productocracy, but a very unethical one.

I strongly suspect that folks who wrote that knew what they were doing.

 

[Xavier X]

I already expressed some thoughts about this on the other thread. I'll add more context here, with figures I'm guessing could be a potential point of lateral returns on happiness. None of this post is based on any scientific research, just my individual opinion and thought process.

First off, I think the notion of making just enough to be okay in some places ($75-100k) is crap. One thing I often tell people is if your desired financial outcome can be wiped away by one serious medical emergency (in the US, that is), then your goals are self-sabotaging. A few hundred thousand dollars as a retirement goal is planning for retirement finances that can easily be wiped away by one injury. A terrible plan.

That said, I still believe with happiness, there is a point where more money may or may not contribute significantly further to your happiness. If I was to guess, I'd say a mostly liquid and semi-liquid net worth around $10-15 billion.

Statistically, only a minuscule percentage of us on this forum will ever get there. There are only around 2,700 - 3,500 billionaires worldwide (depending on the source). So for most intents and purposes, I agree that more money will bring you more happiness (until you crack this kind of net worth).

Why is my guess $10-15 billion and not $1-2 billion?

Making it to billionaire status is still the financial holy grail of any entrepreneur truly out to conquer big things. I am no billionaire, but I believe hitting $1-2 billion will bring incredible happiness (in the "I f*cking made it into the billionaire club!" sense). However, it is likely to also bring anxiety of losing that status, since they're still only one step in the door. This will likely push them to "fortify" that status. With each extra billion, they'll gain even more happiness in that regard.

This brings them to $10-15 billion. At this point, I'm guessing some sense of safety in keeping their billionaire status is now in place. In which case, the level of happiness going from $500m to $1b would be much greater than going from $15b to $16b, even though it's larger in absolute figures and not a doubling, as the former.

I don't imagine everyday life needs and affordance will change in this range. So on a purely personal level, more money will likely do little for their happiness. At very high net worth (not necessarily billions), many people start looking beyond themselves and start engaging legacy projects to improve communities and such. If a billionaire goes in this direction, more money means greater impact and greater impact means more happiness for them.

So in a sense, more money can have a potentially lifetime positive correlation with happiness, depending on the direction a person goes after a certain massive wealth accumulation.

 

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[Shono]

People LOVE that message so they buy the book.

Peaple also LOVE money, as this thread clearly posits. so by your logic money is bad? no, of course not lets not be silly, so why are you disparaging the secret or the law of attraction? I guarantee every successful person who made their own success (not trust fund babies or lottery winners etc. ) was very positive thinking towards it. Maybe you just didn't BELIEVE hard enough, in which case i am sorry to hear that...

 

[Athena_]

A better title for "The Secret" would be "The Scam".

This is a new age pseudo-scientific mystical garbage that promises free money and success for the lazy and undeserving.

And the most dangerous part about "The law of attraction" is that it's half true. Which makes it so appealing for a lot of people.

The life we are living is the result of a very complex chain of reactions. This deterministic chain of events starts with our imagination.

What we think and how we view the world will determine what we do. What we do repeatedly, will determine how our future will look like. A -> B, cause and effect.

So yes, we are the creators of our own destiny. But "The secret" encourages people to stop at the imagination stage and perform no action, hoping that the universe will break the natural deterministic rules of how existence is happening, and give us free money.

This is preposterous. This is narcissistic self-delusion.

Agree! Steve Siebold talks about it in his book 177 mental toughness secrets of the world class, quote " what controls how you perform? What you think controls how you perform - pure cause and effect. Your thinking is the cause, Your performance is the effect, so thinking the right thoughts and acting on them makes great sense. "
It's not about just attracting or manifesting but thinking that you can achieve your goals and acting on them - cause and effect.
I'd like to learn more about the cause and effect but could not find much out there - compare this to so many books out there on manifesting and thinking and growing rich - it is just sad how many people are selling this scam

 

[Shono]

Agree! Steve Siebold talks about it in his book 177 mental toughness secrets of the world class, quote " what controls how you perform? What you think controls how you perform - pure cause and effect. Your thinking is the cause, Your performance is the effect, so thinking the right thoughts and acting on them makes great sense. "
It's not about just attracting or manifesting but thinking that you can achieve your goals and acting on them - cause and effect.
I'd like to learn more about the cause and effect but could not find much out there - compare this to so many books out there on manifesting and thinking and growing rich - it is just sad how many people are selling this scam

It's only a scam if it doesn't work for you. ARe you saying that lets say, 90% of new years resolutionists who buy a gym pass on a whim and then quit are being scammed? the gym didn't work for them , they didnt get fit, therefore gyms must be a scam? No of course not, then it is also the same failure bias concluded when you say the secret didnt work for you. The secret definitely works and you can definitely manifest your dreams but maybe you gave up too quick?

 

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[heavy_industry]

i think we will agree to disagree, it is a best seller for a reason amigo

It's a best seller because the world is full of idiots that like to believe in the magic pill that will give them free and easy money.

People are hardwired to look for a shortcut. The shortcut does not exist. And in many cases taking the perceived "shortcut" leads to catastrophe, tragedy, pain and suffering.

But I guess this is natural selection. Not everybody has to win.

Alcohol and cigarettes are best sellers too.

 

[Athena_]

It's a best seller because the world is full of idiots that like to believe in the magic pill that will give them free and easy money.

People are hardwired to look for a shortcut. The shortcut does not exist. And in many cases taking the perceived "shortcut" leads to catastrophe, tragedy, pain, and suffering.

But I guess this is natural selection. Not everybody has to win.

Alcohol and cigarettes are best sellers too.

This is so accurate!

 

[Subsonic]

It's only a scam if it doesn't work for you. ARe you saying that lets say, 90% of new years resolutionists who buy a gym pass on a whim and then quit are being scammed? the gym didn't work for them , they didnt get fit, therefore gyms must be a scam? No of course not, then it is also the same failure bias concluded when you say the secret didnt work for you. The secret definitely works and you can definitely manifest your dreams but maybe you gave up too quick?

Well, did it work for you ?
Do you have millions right now from thinking positively?

 

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[heavy_industry]

Well, did it work for you ?
Do you have millions right now from thinking positively?

YOU NEED TO VISUALIZE HARDER IN ORDER TO MANIFEST YOUR DREAMS

I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.


You will see that in less than 40 day's time I will manifest this dream into reality and then you will see that you were WRONG and I was RIGHT.

Because the LAW OF ATTRACTION WORKS.

 

[Supa]

It's a best seller because the world is full of idiots that like to believe in the magic pill that will give them free and easy money.

People are hardwired to look for a shortcut. The shortcut does not exist. And in many cases taking the perceived "shortcut" leads to catastrophe, tragedy, pain and suffering.

But I guess this is natural selection. Not everybody has to win.

Alcohol and cigarettes are best sellers too.

Absolutely agree with this.

In his book Psychocybernetics (though quite old and some parts may be outdated by now) Maxwell Maltz talks a lot about the self-image.

He writes about his experience of being a plastic surgeon and sometimes experiencing drastic changes in personality in his patients after he removed or changed something that hurt their self-image. Other times, though, objectively the patients looked good, they didn't change at all.

This led him to his beliefs about the self-image and how a person, before being able to achieve something, must first have a clear image of themselves in mind, as someone who is capable of achieving that. Of being the "kind of person" to achieve that.

But he is not talking about sitting there and visualize yourself achieving it often enough. He is talking about fundamentally changing your own image of yourself.

Now, that's something I can get on board with.

He even mentions in his book, that this does not take away the amount of work the person has to do to achieve their goal. It simply steers it in the right direction.

 

[N.S.]

YOU NEED TO VISUALIZE HARDER IN ORDER TO MANIFEST YOUR DREAMS

I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.


You will see that in less than 40 day's time I will manifest this dream into reality and then you will see that you were WRONG and I was RIGHT.

Because the LAW OF ATTRACTION WORKS.

This is some powerful stuff @heavy_industry - thank you!

I'm cancelling all of my tasks today right NOW to do manifesting practice all day.

Can't believe it took me this long to finally figure out that the missing piece all along was simply that I haven't been visualizing and manifesting enough . I guess it's called The Secret for a reason.

 

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[heavy_industry]

YOU NEED TO VISUALIZE HARDER IN ORDER TO MANIFEST YOUR DREAMS

I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.


You will see that in less than 40 day's time I will manifest this dream into reality and then you will see that you were WRONG and I was RIGHT.

Because the LAW OF ATTRACTION WORKS.

IT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE LAW OF ATTRACTION IS REAL!

Thank you so much, @Everyman !
You are a legend!

 

[Shono]

Well, did it work for you ?
Do you have millions right now from thinking positively?

Yes, I will soon and then i will post here and you will all have serious egg on face, i cultivate my belief in myself everyday and my convictions are invincible i wont be pulled down by naysayers and non-believers.

 

[Everyman]

IT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE LAW OF ATTRACTION IS REAL!

Thank you so much, @Everyman !
You are a legend!

I'll allow myself to paraphrase a quote by the Oracle from the conversation with Neo in The Matrix (1999).

Ohh, what's really going to bake Our noodle later on is, would you still have received it if You hadn't written anything?

 

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[rensjake]

Yeah, Its a sad reality. Most people does not know how lucky they are to have such a beautiful wife that they could ride with and when things go south thier attitude changes. Speaking of luck, I'am pretty sure that the luckiest thing in this world would be having a wife that is caring for you. Yeah right, being rich does not mean you are lucky, but having a great wife with a great bond together is one of the luckiest thing in this world you could possibly have.

 

[Athena_]

YOU NEED TO VISUALIZE HARDER IN ORDER TO MANIFEST YOUR DREAMS

I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.
I am so happy and grateful NOW that I have a Fastlane Forum INSIDERS's subscription.


You will see that in less than 40 day's time I will manifest this dream into reality and then you will see that you were WRONG and I was RIGHT.

Because the LAW OF ATTRACTION WORKS.

I wanna manifest too lol here we go

I am so happy and grateful NOW that my net worth exceeded that of Elon Musk
I am so happy and grateful NOW that my net worth exceeded that of Elon Musk

I will manifest this in 2 days time
I do not need to do even get out of my couch I'm gonna attract the money

 

[SDE]

I wanna manifest too lol here we go

I am so happy and grateful NOW that my net worth exceeded that of Elon Musk
I am so happy and grateful NOW that my net worth exceeded that of Elon Musk

I will manifest this in 2 days time
I do not need to do even get out of my couch I'm gonna attract the money

 

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[SoniXx]

A better title for "The Secret" would be "The Scam".

This is a new age pseudo-scientific mystical garbage that promises free money and success for the lazy and undeserving.

And the most dangerous part about "The law of attraction" is that it's half true. Which makes it so appealing for a lot of people.

The life we are living is the result of a very complex chain of reactions. This deterministic chain of events starts with our imagination.

What we think and how we view the world will determine what we do. What we do repeatedly, will determine how our future will look like. A -> B, cause and effect.

So yes, we are the creators of our own destiny. But "The secret" encourages people to stop at the imagination stage and perform no action, hoping that the universe will break the natural deterministic rules of how existence is happening, and give us free money.

This is preposterous. This is narcissistic self-delusion.

I agree with you, I was in the manifesting delusion for a while. It actually works for some time. But then you get lazy, that is what happened to me. Thank god I am not in that space anymore, just living in delusions. Taking action is what roots you in reality and shows you how far you've got in life.

 

[Sebzmaniac]

I think one reason, why there seems to be a trend towards "being happy with mediocrity" ist the boom of entrepreneurship over the last 5-10 years or so.

I remember, when I read TMF and came on here, most people didn't give a crap about entrepreneurship. Sure there have always been some that did, but those were quite in the minority compared to the rest.

But then all these new possibilities of becoming wealthy by doing something enjoyable and not work too much, emerged:

YouTube creators. Instagram Influencers. And now TikTokers.

Getting rich online suddenly wasn't about building a business or a product anymore. All you needed was a smartphone with a camera, an internet connection and, most importantly, yourself. That's it.

Of course we all know, that it is definitely not easy, and that you need to put a ton of work into this type of business. All of that in an overcrowded market. But it SEEMS easy.

So what does this lead to?

Millions of young people trying to become rich the easy and enjoyable way.

But what happens, once most of these realize, that it's not as easy as they thought? That they may never make it?

You need a counter perspective to sooth all those frustrated by the fact, that they will probably never make a living from filming themselves and putting it on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok or whatever other social media platform.

Not to mention, that there's a whole market now of these people who will probably not make it.

Lots of people to sell your books and courses and stuff about how it's totally ok to be mediocre.

In the millioniare fastlane, MJ said that the secret escape of the slowlane is fame. It is the get out of jail free key.

So, if you think about it, Influencing on YouTube, Tiktok and Instagram is fame

What do you think?

 

[Athena_]

View attachment 47555

In the millioniare fastlane, MJ said that the secret escape of the slowlane is fame. It is the get out of jail free key.

So, if you think about it, Influencing on YouTube, Tiktok and Instagram is fame

What do you think?

Yes I think it is, and it follows law of effection, if you have 1 million subscriber or let's say even 50 K followers on Instagram - you have access to high numbers - you can sell a product or service to that many people

 

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[ErrandRunnerUSA]

Coming from personal experience, money does buy happiness. I've talked about my partner's and my experience about putting everything we had in the crypto market. (Yes, I already know not the best course of action. We have already been emotionally attacked by many people we talked to so no need to comment or attack us on this now. Please don't. One close friend said you should have taken the money out at $100,000; that's what you get for being greedy.)

Roughly last year, we had $220,000 in ADA. We had hope and joy. We started dreaming of what our lives could look like within the next year. One day we were caught in a flash crash on a margin trade and lost about 90% of our money. That was the worst day of the year for us--and that's after this COVID mess. We felt sick to our stomachs. We were not the only ones caught in this flash crash; other traders posted threads and started reaching out to one another. A handful of us felt like committing suicide over this loss; again, a feeling--living in the moment, not actually going through with suicide. Logic doesn't kick in until you go through the emotional stages first; you have to let the emotions run their course in this situation before the logical voice can be heard.

We are still recouping our losses even now from that flash crash. Definitely not as happy as were were before the flash crash--even now. For the past decade, we are and have been at the bottom of the food chain financially. We have been homeless living out of offices, living with parents for years now, on Food Stamps for at least five years, on the waiting list for affordable housing, rejected from the purple affordable housing cause we didn't make enough money, etc. . . Point being, we are poor. Losing $200,000 was extremely devastating for us.

Here's the thing. We aren't the only ones who lost $200,000. There were some people who didn't attack us when we told them about losing that much money--even now. Interestingly enough, they empathized with us. Notice how I used the word empathize and not sympathize? They also lost a good chunk of money ($200,000 or more). They knew exactly what we were going through and felt the same way from their experiences. They didn't attack us saying that was stupid and greedy of you. Nor did they shove advice down our throats when we didn't ask for advice. They felt the same exact way when they lost a huge chunk of money. Were they happy when they lost the money? Hell no. Did they quickly recover from the loss mentally? Nope. It was a tough lesson; one that changes how you trade and what you do from then on. Just like some hard lessons learned via experience as an entrepreneur.

Moving forward, a few users from my partner's business stepped forward claiming they also lost a huge sum of money on trading. They learned from that terrible experience and eventually became rich. It sounds like most of his (my fiancé's) rich users have experienced losing a large sum; it's just no one talks about it.

In conclusion, from my personal experience, money does/can buy happiness. Ya, there's always exceptions to the rules, but for the majority of us--money buys happiness.

(The article seems weird cause I think this might be logic trying to fight emotions. Logically, of course money buys happiness! Would I rather have the choice of walking or driving to the grocery store vs. having to walk to the grocery store cause I can't afford a car or I'm on a strict budget? Money gives you more choices/options. Basically listing all the reasons money does buy happiness from a logical standpoint. Emotionally--money doesn't buy happiness. You are greedy if you are rich; rich people are evil. It's those brainwashing societal scripts speaking. Some of my coworkers at Walmart brag about not being materialistic. It's an emotional battle, it seems. It seems obvious money buys happiness; on the other hand, we have people like my coworkers believing money is the root of all evil.)

 

[Shono]

I wanna manifest too lol here we go

I am so happy and grateful NOW that my net worth exceeded that of Elon Musk
I am so happy and grateful NOW that my net worth exceeded that of Elon Musk

I will manifest this in 2 days time
I do not need to do even get out of my couch I'm gonna attract the money

there is a difference between delusion and pragmatic dreams... I now get your guys's point that the secret is a scam, its a scam because of guys like this, but for others like me who are realistic it is 100% legit.

 

[Sebzmaniac]

Yes I think it is, and it follows law of effection, if you have 1 million subscriber or let's say even 50 K followers on Instagram - you have access to high numbers - you can sell a product or service to that many people

I don't really think it follows the law of effection, because what's also included in that law is "in an entity you control"

So, I was thinking of that law as kind of a business you create, since you control it.

You don't control YouTube, Tiktok and Instagram, because you're not in control of the income you earn. The people in control dictate how much you earn

When your in a business, you control your income and your income will explode violently.

Do you agree?

 

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[Athena_]

I don't really think it follows the law of effection, because what's also included in that law is "in an entity you control"

So, I was thinking of that law as kind of a business you create, since you control it.

You don't control YouTube, Tiktok and Instagram, because you're not in control of the income you earn. The people in control dictate how much you earn

When you are in a business, you control your income, and your income will explode violently.

Do you agree?

Yes you are right about the violation of control but there are ways around it - here is how I think about it - first build an audience - use social media as distribution platform, provide free content - then get them into your email list or may be your forum where you have much more control - then sell your digital or even physical products