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Ask Me Anything About SaaS ( I'm building my 7th )

alexkuzmov

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Hey @eliquid me again :D

Remember a couple of months back I asked you for some advice on onboarding a shady client.
Well it turned out OK, he signed, refused to pay for ~2 months and just when I thought my gut was right, he paid for a full year. So twists and turns I suppose...
Also we kept the prices as they are, kept developing and we got new clients :)

Since then we`ve been steadily onboarding 2-3 clients per month and things are starting to get a bit out of hand in terms of developing.
I cant neglect my job since it pays the bills but I also cant devote my full time to the project.
As a result, we`ve started hardcoding features here and there just so we can keep up with the current and new client requests.
Some features we do integrate into the system, but for half lets say, we do them only for the client that wants them.
I`m hearing my gut again.
On one hand I want to improve on the system, clear out the hardcode, streamline and automate.
On the other hand I keep thinking over and over in my head: Its for the clients, its not for you.

My question is, have you dealt with such a scenario?
Can the project fail because of the accumulated tech debt?
What would you be your advice? Should we slow down/stop with clients until we catch up with development, or keep hardcoding and onboarding until the monthly revenue surpases my income so I can devote 100% to the project?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

PS. Thank you for your previous advice and your time spent ot writting it.
 
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eliquid

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Hey @eliquid
Not sure if this is the right thread to post this question.
If it isn’t, I’d appreciate if someone can direct me to the right thread or person to speak with.

I want to do 3 things to my website:

1. Add a filtering feature to filter listings based off information givenby the site’s visitor.
2. Make it possible for businesses to add their listing by filling out a form and the website automatically Creates a page for that business including the given information
3. Create a system where folks can leave reviews and they automatically post to the site.

Anybidy have any experience with this or know someone I can speak to? I might have to outsource it but I’m not sure the ballpark estimate of how much it will cost.

Any feedback is helpful.

You need to reach out to a dev and get an estimate.

There is a lot missing here, in order for me to help you ( such as complexity of your site, your budget, etc )
 

eliquid

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Hey @eliquid me again :D

Remember a couple of months back I asked you for some advice on onboarding a shady client.
Well it turned out OK, he signed, refused to pay for ~2 months and just when I thought my gut was right, he paid for a full year. So twists and turns I suppose...
Also we kept the prices as they are, kept developing and we got new clients :)

Since then we`ve been steadily onboarding 2-3 clients per month and things are starting to get a bit out of hand in terms of developing.
I cant neglect my job since it pays the bills but I also cant devote my full time to the project.
As a result, we`ve started hardcoding features here and there just so we can keep up with the current and new client requests.
Some features we do integrate into the system, but for half lets say, we do them only for the client that wants them.
I`m hearing my gut again.
On one hand I want to improve on the system, clear out the hardcode, streamline and automate.
On the other hand I keep thinking over and over in my head: Its for the clients, its not for you.

My question is, have you dealt with such a scenario?
Can the project fail because of the accumulated tech debt?
What would you be your advice? Should we slow down/stop with clients until we catch up with development, or keep hardcoding and onboarding until the monthly revenue surpases my income so I can devote 100% to the project?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

PS. Thank you for your previous advice and your time spent ot writting it.

Nice to hear!

I have somewhat dealt with that in the past, but not at an extreme level.

The only way the project will fail is IF you fail with it.

You can always go back and recode at your own pace. You can always hire someone once you make good money to recode it at a slow pace.

Money and oppertunities can fade away, especially if competitors creep in or recessions stomp in unexpectedly.

Always get money first. Use that money once obtained to handle your other issues.
 

eliquid

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Sometimes just showing up, even unprepared is enough to win most of your battles.

I began helping a friend of mine with his SaaS in Dec 2019. Helping him with marketing ( no heavy tech stuff ) and almost entirely just SEO within that marketing help I did.

Wanna see how I got them to first page, 5th rank in Google for their largest B2B SaaS term in JUST 6 months with no SEO gameplan?

I don't give away the term or niche, but I wrote this out over at SERPWoo ( my current SaaS ) and here is the ranking right now.

zCm7BFe.png




Here are the posts:
Ranking A New Site From Scratch, Day 0
Ranking A New Website From Scratch, Day 1-31
Ranking A New Website From Scratch, Day 31-60
Ranking A New Website From Scratch, Day 61-90
Ranking A New Website From Scratch, Day 91-120

The series is still a work in progress, so there will be future updates.

.
 
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eliquid

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I started this thread in Oct of 2017.

I laid out basically a mini course here within that month of Oct, back in 2017.

Since that time, I have mainly answered questions and not really added a lot more. In those times I couldn't really think of what more I could add honestly after all my major posts.

However, I think I have figured out more I need to post to help you especially after helping a friend with his SaaS ( see post above ) and going through the motions with him for the last 6 months.

So just letting you know I am going to actively post on this thread again ( not just being reactive to questions ) and it might last a week, a month, who knows.

If you all have questions or interests, get them in now please.
 

livetrue

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I'm new, and going to be spending my time in the SaaS space quite heavily I anticipate.

How do you find your customers?
When deciding on developing a SaaS product, how are you discovering its value?
Who do you use to service your SaaS products? Do you use AWS? Azure? Your own servers?
 

eliquid

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I'm new, and going to be spending my time in the SaaS space quite heavily I anticipate.

How do you find your customers?
When deciding on developing a SaaS product, how are you discovering its value?
Who do you use to service your SaaS products? Do you use AWS? Azure? Your own servers?

Not trying to be rude, but I have a feeling you haven't read all 14 pages of this thread and the 3 years worth of reading material put into it.

Every one of these questions was answered within its pages already.

I can't reanswer the same questions over and over. Sorry. I know I asked for more questions, but I was expecting ones not already answered here from before.
 
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Carnegie

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Thanks for this thread @eliquid I’ve read it from start to finish and have learnt loads.

I recall you from back in the day of WF (RIP), was an early user of serpwoo and I’m currently developing a SaaS which your fits your criteria of having knowledge in the niche.

Our niche is small and all the offerings charge a seemingly unnecessary fee, simply because there’s money in the industry and high prices have long since been established primarily due to onsite training, onsite servers and the like.

I actively work in the industry and have been quite involved in helping one of the current leaders become better and more feature rich.

We’ve been using that now for a number of years, but it’s very slow, it’s buggy and for what it costs (£xx,xxx per annum) it’s a joke.

I’m now developing our own, for us, but plan to take this to market once it’s stable and can support our business.

I can under cut every single provider in the industry and likely sell it at As low as 1/10 of their prices and still be comfortably profitable.

My question is should I set this precedent, or should I "join the club" and provide my software at the same prices to prevent a race to the bottom?

I feel like you’ve answered this (in a way) and you'd say I should outdo them on features at the same price. I'm considering that, but part of me feels this is different as having paid these prices I resent them for it and I can’t be alone in that.

Not just that, but being the first at the bottom might allow me to establish a strong user base first and these larger less nimble companies won't be able to compete for some time. (Especially as we will be actively using the software no matter what, so if it fails I couldn't care less, we will still use and need it.)

Further more, as a marketer first, I can't help but think that by being cheaper, potential customers would see my low price point and assume my product is poor as the high price point is long established.

(I have many more questions, but after that wall of words, I'll not bombard you.)

Thanks!

Edit: "You have been awarded speed points for first post". I joined in 2011... :cool:
 
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eliquid

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Thanks for this thread @eliquid I’ve read it from start to finish and have learnt loads.

I recall you from back in the day of WF (RIP), was an early user of serpwoo and I’m currently developing a SaaS which your fits your criteria of having knowledge in the niche.

Our niche is small and all the offerings charge a seemingly unnecessary fee, simply because there’s money in the industry and high prices have long since been established primarily due to onsite training, onsite servers and the like.

I actively work in the industry and have been quite involved in helping one of the current leaders become better and more feature rich.

We’ve been using that now for a number of years, but it’s very slow, it’s buggy and for what it costs (£xx,xxx per annum) it’s a joke.

I’m now developing our own, for us, but plan to take this to market once it’s stable and can support our business.

I can under cut every single provider in the industry and likely sell it at As low as 1/10 of their prices and still be comfortably profitable.

My question is should I set this precedent, or should I "join the club" and provide my software at the same prices to prevent a race to the bottom?

I feel like you’ve answered this (in a way) and you'd say I should outdo them on features at the same price. I'm considering that, but part of me feels this is different as having paid these prices I resent them for it and I can’t be alone in that.

Not just that, but being the first at the bottom might allow me to establish a strong user base first and these larger less nimble companies won't be able to compete for some time. (Especially as we will be actively using the software no matter what, so if it fails I couldn't care less, we will still use and need it.)

Further more, as a marketer first, I can't help but think that by being cheaper, potential customers would see my low price point and assume my product is poor as the high price point is long established.

(I have many more questions, but after that wall of words, I'll not bombard you.)

Thanks!

Edit: "You have been awarded speed points for first post". I joined in 2011... :cool:

Thanks and nice to meet you.

On the race to the bottom, someone else will come and do it. No worries about that. It will either be you or someone else in a short time.

However, that doesn't mean you should do it.

I thought being first to the bottom would provide some value as well, but then someone told me that higher ups at larger companies would pass you up.

Why?

Because people's jobs and careers depending on the choices they make.

Lets say you are the VP or Director in a company and you find a tool like yours and it's only $9 a month. You will pass that up thinking, "can I integrate my IT stack with this and depend on it?".

They might think you wont be around in 6 to 12 months.

They might think you wont be able to support your API or customer service.

They might think there is no way you can secure the data about their account safely.

They might think it's a 1 man show and you wont be able to handle things when they fall apart.

If this guy picks you and shit hits the wall in 90 days and causes this company to be down in some fashion ( lets pretend your solution links into some critical reporting the board uses ), this guy is going to look like shit and maybe looked at as incompentent.

People want to make sure you are going to be able to support their needs.

That's hard to do as the "cheapest" option on a first impression.

Hope that helps.
 

Carnegie

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Thanks, @eliquid that's absolutely gold. I really appreciate it.

What you say makes so much sense and parts of it didn't cross my mind. I mean I'm the arse carrying the can after pushing someone towards a SaaS which is flawed despite due diligence that has taken place over a number of years. I'm now having to build a SaaS to resolve the problems I've caused.

It's why I plan to give the ability to close/cancel in my plans that will provide a user with not just their data, but some kind of working read-only app with all their data so their business will be unaffected by leaving.

I want this facility available at all times as I think service providers in this industry like knowing that their subscribers are locked in once they've started using their services and I want to be Mr Transparent - "You want to leave me, no worries. Here's all your data in a fully working and usable format."

See, I'm absolutely up to my neck in shit due to the way the industry operates and there's no way I'm alone.

It's left of field, but like you mention, this is business critical stuff, and there's a lot of fear around because data is not only held by the providers, but not handed over in an easy to use format. It keeps people stuck in their SaaS. I'd wager there's a lot of ill feeling surrounding these apps.

Thanks again.
 
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LifeisSuffering

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Hello everyone.

A lot of you know me for my digital marketing Gold Thread here on the FLF ( see sig ), as well as other posts in the forum.

What you might not know is that I've successfully built 6 profitable SaaS programs either solely by myself, or with a single partner ( and with no other employees other than VA's ), and that I am working on building my 7th SaaS

I've learned a few things in SaaS over the last 7 years that span:
  • Handling competitors
  • Reducing churn
  • Fraud reduction
  • Technology for SaaS needs
  • Big Data ( billions of new data points daily over years )
  • Increasing LTV
  • APIs
  • Pricing
  • Onboarding
  • Project management
  • Marketing
  • Customer service
  • Partnerships
  • Customer demos/profiles, MVPs, UVP's, ahHa moments, etc
  • many many more things

I've focused all my SaaS programs in the digital marketing space, but I have some ideas for new SaaS programs expanding outside of that for the future.

I can't answer questions related to:
  • Legal - please seek an attorney
  • Specific finance questions about my current or past SaaS programs - I'm not going to divulge other than generalities to the public. I can verify for a mod though if needed.
  • Info on verticals outside of digital marketing - meaning if you have a SaaS for doctors and you ask me a specific medical question, I won't know it if it pertains to doctors or medical
  • LLC vs Scorp Vs etc - This is legal
  • How long is a piece of string type questions

And before anyone asks.. NO, not all 6 SaaS are currently running right now. I closed down the first 5 over the years at different times due to either partner problems or interest died off for me and I rolled into the next SaaS combining ideas to make something new.

For clarification, I am running 1 active SaaS right now and building another ( the 7th ) that is not public atm since it is not finished.

Ask away!


P.S. - Listen, I'm a different type of person. I have very unique views that don't always fit the norm you might have heard elsewhere. What I tell you is what has worked for me and the way I see things from my own personal experience. There are many ways to skin a cat. If you don't agree, that's cool but always think things over for yourself and what will work for you.

.
Thank you for the great contribution and the time you providing to answer our questions, if u got a simple advice from where can a beginner start to program his first SaaS, What would be ?
 

eliquid

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Thank you for the great contribution and the time you providing to answer our questions, if u got a simple advice from where can a beginner start to program his first SaaS, What would be ?

  • Code to just get things done. Don't code to follow some computer science pattern
  • Learn what the market wants by being an authority of some kind
  • The language type doesn't matter
  • Build the most basic MVP possible, test if people will buy before building anything else
  • Learn CRUD for whatever language you are coding in
 

jeandearme

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I just recently finished my first SaaS - DocTemple but I made a mistake of not testing early and not having people already waiting for that service. Now I struggle with finding my first customer.
 
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GatsbyMag

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I just recently finished my first SaaS - DocTemple but I made a mistake of not testing early and not having people already waiting for that service. Now I struggle with finding my first customer.
What have you done in an attempt to increase your customer acquisition?
 

jeandearme

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What have you done in an attempt to increase your customer acquisition?

Just recently I created lifetime deal and so far I got 13 customers (almost 800 euros made in two days). I decided to do that because I have almost no cost for keeping it running.
 

GatsbyMag

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Just recently I created lifetime deal and so far I got 13 customers (almost 800 euros made in two days). I decided to do that because I have almost no cost for keeping it running.
Haha that sounds similar to me, I created a lifetime deal too but not because I was struggling to get customers, more of a technical issue.

Interesting how people are willing to pay higher price upfront vs. month-by-month. I guess it makes sense.

Going back to your question, I'm presuming you've already tried cold emailing? If it's not working, maybe it's your website messaging/positioning. When I went on your website, it took me awhile to figure out what your service does, even now I still don't really see the benefit. Who are your competitors?
 
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Nick T

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Solid thread... There is a ton of value in it. Thanks for taking the time!

The industry my partners and I are innovating in has a company who has majority market share. This company abused it for the last decade, and our clients minds are blown when they come on board with us.

This is us...

"If your competitors are stealing from you and finally trying to upgrade their product after a decade of not doing so, you're doing something right. " - Jason Brown

They will have to rip us off. To combat this we do not offer self serve on-boarding until to keep them out for now ( LTV's are high, so we have room). We will eventually, but we think we can get them into a high churn first. So they take on water as they try and pivot.

This line from you is classic! It's good advice on how I should probably be thinking. I get on this, and my partners get scared to poke the bear.

"I'm coming after you and I don't care what I have to do, I will carve my name in your forehead and take everything I can from you. There isn't room for all of us, so you're going down. If you're drowning in a lake and expect me to help you up, I'm sticking a water hose in your mouth at full blast."

So I had a question you may or may not have an answer to...

We built converters to move data from their platform to ours. If we show our customers exactly what they need to do in a tutorial to get their data exported can the competition stop us from doing that?

Whether you to respond to this or not @eliquid. Super grateful you added this information on here.

Thanks again!
 
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Hi Jason,

First of all, I just want to say thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and helping people out.

I'm curious if you've ever had to do influencer marketing for one of your SaaS'es and how that went? I'm currently trying to get into it as we want to reinvest everything over basic living expenses back into the business and I want to get into YouTuber sponsorships.

Thanks.
 

Nick T

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Hi Jason,

First of all, I just want to say thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and helping people out.

I'm curious if you've ever had to do influencer marketing for one of your SaaS'es and how that went? I'm currently trying to get into it as we want to reinvest everything over basic living expenses back into the business and I want to get into YouTuber sponsorships.

Thanks.

Go to page one of this thread and read it... He answers this amigo...
 
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jeandearme

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Haha that sounds similar to me, I created a lifetime deal too but not because I was struggling to get customers, more of a technical issue.

Could you elaborate more on how LTD was more of a technical issue? :D

Interesting how people are willing to pay higher price upfront vs. month-by-month. I guess it makes sense.

Yes, not sure if it's a trend though. To make SaaS sustainable (SaaStainable? lol) monthly payments are better for business. Otherwise, cost of acquiring new customers will be much higher. I treat LTD customers as investors so I can go after monthly paying users using money gathered on LTD.

Going back to your question, I'm presuming you've already tried cold emailing? If it's not working, maybe it's your website messaging/positioning. When I went on your website, it took me awhile to figure out what your service does, even now I still don't really see the benefit. Who are your competitors?

No, I'm not even planning on cold emailing. Barely have time to work on product. I just improved a bit explanation on the site, but I know it still needs improvement. I want to first sell first 50 spots for early bird LTD so I can move on to paid ads to see what's what.
 

DrScream

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This thread is literal cocaine. Thank you for taking the time. I've been getting into programming myself and I've stumbled on this at the perfect time as I'm currently in the service business and want to release some sort of SaaS that helps others. I'm building things for myself so it should be fun as even if the software fails, I'll still be able to use it for myself :D

I will post questions as they come into a notepad and send them over the comment after I've read this entire thread. Currently on page 3.

Do you think Javascript can build functional software or is JS simply for the look of the pages? I've heard conflicting answers.
 

eliquid

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Solid thread... There is a ton of value in it. Thanks for taking the time!

The industry my partners and I are innovating in has a company who has majority market share. This company abused it for the last decade, and our clients minds are blown when they come on board with us.

This is us...

"If your competitors are stealing from you and finally trying to upgrade their product after a decade of not doing so, you're doing something right. " - Jason Brown

They will have to rip us off. To combat this we do not offer self serve on-boarding until to keep them out for now ( LTV's are high, so we have room). We will eventually, but we think we can get them into a high churn first. So they take on water as they try and pivot.

This line from you is classic! It's good advice on how I should probably be thinking. I get on this, and my partners get scared to poke the bear.

"I'm coming after you and I don't care what I have to do, I will carve my name in your forehead and take everything I can from you. There isn't room for all of us, so you're going down. If you're drowning in a lake and expect me to help you up, I'm sticking a water hose in your mouth at full blast."

So I had a question you may or may not have an answer to...

We built converters to move data from their platform to ours. If we show our customers exactly what they need to do in a tutorial to get their data exported can the competition stop us from doing that?

Whether you to respond to this or not @eliquid. Super grateful you added this information on here.

Thanks again!

I'm not a lawyer, but from what I have seen and know.. they can not stop you from doing this legally.

They can try and tie you up in court fees and paperwork of course for anything, but when it comes down to the end of it ( unless you give up ) they can not stop you.
 
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eliquid

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Hi Jason,

First of all, I just want to say thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and helping people out.

I'm curious if you've ever had to do influencer marketing for one of your SaaS'es and how that went? I'm currently trying to get into it as we want to reinvest everything over basic living expenses back into the business and I want to get into YouTuber sponsorships.

Thanks.

I haven't. Sorry.

I would still try it though.
 

eliquid

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This thread is literal cocaine. Thank you for taking the time. I've been getting into programming myself and I've stumbled on this at the perfect time as I'm currently in the service business and want to release some sort of SaaS that helps others. I'm building things for myself so it should be fun as even if the software fails, I'll still be able to use it for myself :D

I will post questions as they come into a notepad and send them over the comment after I've read this entire thread. Currently on page 3.

Do you think Javascript can build functional software or is JS simply for the look of the pages? I've heard conflicting answers.

It can build out the software.

The design/frontend is your product too, so JS fits the bill there.

However, NODEJS is all JS and that can handle all the backend. So you can do both.
 

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Aug 26, 2020
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I'm not a lawyer, but from what I have seen and know.. they can not stop you from doing this legally.

They can try and tie you up in court fees and paperwork of course for anything, but when it comes down to the end of it ( unless you give up ) they can not stop you.

Lol, you called it... They are trying to do the old "knock everyone else's building down, instead of building their's up in order to have the tallest building." We have a retainer fund we add to every month because of it. (And they don't know we eliminated their ability to force people to stay yet.) They started to send us stuff the moment we over took them in Google...

Definitely makes it a "dog eat dog" world. The little bio note you have on the bottom of your website is pretty great...

"At some point, he would like the bigger companies in this space to stop stealing his, and his partner's, ideas and innovate on their own instead. " LMAO...

Appreciate you taking the time good sir!
 
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DrScream

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Oct 4, 2019
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It can build out the software.

The design/frontend is your product too, so JS fits the bill there.

However, NODEJS is all JS and that can handle all the backend. So you can do both.
When you say "you can do both" do you mean you can do both front-end and back-end development with javascript or do you mean I could learn both PHP and JS? Thanks for the info!
 

MHP368

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what does your rollout look like in terms of sales and marketing? , hungry commission-only sdr's on Linkedin? any software you utilize to get your first batch of clients?
 
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Big Spender

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Jul 1, 2019
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Hello everyone.

A lot of you know me for my digital marketing Gold Thread here on the FLF ( see sig ), as well as other posts in the forum.

What you might not know is that I've successfully built 6 profitable SaaS programs either solely by myself, or with a single partner ( and with no other employees other than VA's ), and that I am working on building my 7th SaaS

I've learned a few things in SaaS over the last 7 years that span:
  • Handling competitors
  • Reducing churn
  • Fraud reduction
  • Technology for SaaS needs
  • Big Data ( billions of new data points daily over years )
  • Increasing LTV
  • APIs
  • Pricing
  • Onboarding
  • Project management
  • Marketing
  • Customer service
  • Partnerships
  • Customer demos/profiles, MVPs, UVP's, ahHa moments, etc
  • many many more things

I've focused all my SaaS programs in the digital marketing space, but I have some ideas for new SaaS programs expanding outside of that for the future.

I can't answer questions related to:
  • Legal - please seek an attorney
  • Specific finance questions about my current or past SaaS programs - I'm not going to divulge other than generalities to the public. I can verify for a mod though if needed.
  • Info on verticals outside of digital marketing - meaning if you have a SaaS for doctors and you ask me a specific medical question, I won't know it if it pertains to doctors or medical
  • LLC vs Scorp Vs etc - This is legal
  • How long is a piece of string type questions

And before anyone asks.. NO, not all 6 SaaS are currently running right now. I closed down the first 5 over the years at different times due to either partner problems or interest died off for me and I rolled into the next SaaS combining ideas to make something new.

For clarification, I am running 1 active SaaS right now and building another ( the 7th ) that is not public atm since it is not finished.

Ask away!


P.S. - Listen, I'm a different type of person. I have very unique views that don't always fit the norm you might have heard elsewhere. What I tell you is what has worked for me and the way I see things from my own personal experience. There are many ways to skin a cat. If you don't agree, that's cool but always think things over for yourself and what will work for you.

.
What is SaaS?
 

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