Anger Issues

[Antifragile]

I have a quick temper, it's something I've been working on for a long time now, but at the moment I'm struggling. I'm trying to quit or at least cut down on smoking (marijuana), but it's the only thing that calms me when I feel myself flying into a rage. Maybe it's got something to do with my childhood, I grew up in an area where the ability to be violent was an asset.

I'm 51 now and it's better than in my teens, 20s, or even 30s. In fact if I lived in America through that time, the easy access to guns over there leaves me in no doubt I'd be in prison for murder. Even though I'm 51 now, I almost got into a fight the other day with some little scrote who was rude to me in a shop, it's only because he threatened to shoot me (not a real threat where I live) and I started laughing, which diffused the situation.

I hate losing my shit, I hate how I feel afterwards, I hate making people feel scared or uncomfortable (I'm a big [not fat] guy) and it just all round feels like a waste of energy.

The usual advice (count to ten and all that bs) does not work on me, I'm too angry in the moment to feel it. When I lose it, I can feel my brain splitting in two. On one side is the rational, much quieter side saying "no, chill, don't do this. You'll regret this afterwards" The other, much louder, side of me is shouting "JUST F*ckING SMASH!!!"

So, anyone else out there with these issues that has found a good coping mechanism please feel free to drop a few lines on how it's worked for you.

Lots of interesting replies already…

A little different angle for you from my own life. Growing up in Eastern Europe being tough was an asset. That and various family dynamics made my fuse short.

Today I am seem by most people around me as the calm and rational one. Never buckle under pressure, and you can’t set me off even if you try.

What’s the difference?

One word: identity.

Who are you as a person? What is your identity? I accepted that since as far back as I can remember, I was meant to be tough. Weak men are weak for a reason. I thought being angry was being tough, only later to realize that only weak men are angry. Men who aren’t in control aren’t tough. “Losing it” isn’t being tough, it’s the opposite.

In the animal kingdom, there is a certain graceful calmness about top of the pyramid predators. They are in control over their emotions. Same with humans. And that realization is what changed me. My identity is consistent with my behaviour now.

I am a calm person. Try as you might to set me off, you won’t succeed. You may even be physically stronger than me, but I’ll be tougher.


Sidebar: distilling why someone typically gets mad is simple. It is a violation of a rule in your own mind. Your rule. Not a real rule, just your own rule that you made up. That means you can make up a new rule. Unless you are weak. Weak men cannot do that. Like when someone is rude to you. It is your rule that “such and such has no right to talk to me this way”. My rule will be “this personal demeanour is beneath me, people who are like me don’t engage with losers like this person. People like him did not earn the right to take up my time and any emotion from me, that is reserved for people I like/love” etc.


Outcome?
- Turns out my new approach means I do very well in negotiations. And that helps me with my business.
- Same with family
… most of all, I am happier being this way.

In short, don’t look for a “method”. As Nike says “just do it” - you have the power within you to change your mind from being easily triggered to someone who’s calm. Calm people are wickedly tough.

Edit:
Of course, everyone has limits. And I do mediate (TM), go for walks, read and write to remain in control over my responses to life’s events. The difference is just like for people who try to quit an addiction. As long as you identify as a “smoker who’s trying to quit” you’ll fail. The minute you start identifying as a “non-smoker who occasionally smokes” you’ve done it. Identity.

It is not what happens to you, it is how you react to it that matters.

 

[Andy Black]

How do you avoid feeling the helplessness @Andy Black ? Let’s say someone from your team steals $20,000 from you, and you can’t legally pursue them for whatever reason. How would you avoid feeling helpless in that situation, and hence angry, if you know you most likely can’t get the money back?

If that happened my first reaction would likely be shock and like my stomach had dropped. I don't think my first reaction would be anger.

I'd try to breathe and maybe go for a walk. I'd be trying to calm my mind and not make matters worse.

I worked in IT supporting critical business systems. The first thing I learned was to keep my head and not make things worse.

"Nothing's so f*cked up you can't f*ck it up more."

Think your way through it, rather than go off half cocked. And if that means stepping away to take a few breathes and calm down then that's better than hammering away at it.

In those moments, and on that walk, I'd try and figure out if I can do anything about it, and if I can't, then what I can do to not allow things to get worse.

I'll logically try and control what I think about the situation, and go looking for silver linings. In a way I'm hacking my own brain.

"I'm glad it was only $20k they stole and I found out now."

"At least I found out and got rid of them before they ruined my reputation in the market."

"How can I turn this to my advantage? Are there holes in my systems that I can now see and close?"

Etc.

I remember hearing a boss give a reference for me on the phone. "What's he like under pressure? Ha. He's still there, giggling."

I'm known to get calmer when the shit hits the fan, not madder. It's intentional and I suspect my military dad had a hand in that.

 

[Antifragile]

Pure gold!

This comment deserves a thread of its own.

Thanks.

There may be a thread in weaving a few topics:

• your own mind is the greatest source for your success or failure, your identity defines your actions
• controlling your emotions and how it helps with business: negotiations, employees, most stressful moments etc.
• quality of questions you ask yourself determines the qualify of life you will live

There is a reason why books like "Die with Zero" are popular. I didn't read it, but heard enough to know that its'a bout reframing your relationship to how you view money and life. It's again about changing your mind. And while I disagree with the premise of dying with $ zero, I‘d like to die with zero regrets and a shit ton of wealth… but I digress.

I’ll let it perculate in my head, appreciate the suggestion.

This was excellent. I really like how you explained this and I'm learning this too. It works perfectly for strangers, friends, etc. BUT is a bit more difficult with family, S/O type situations (can't exactly decide "this person's a loser who I won't deal with again" - I mean, you CAN, sometimes, but you catch my drift) so if you expanded more on your thoughts on this, would be interesting.

We love making life more complicated, humans… that’s what we do. But does it have to be?

Sure, it sounds like the approach with relatives would be much more nuanced. But is it really?

Either I am a calm person or not. Calm person won’t yell at relatives no more than strangers, won’t ”lose it” etc. Right?

Diving a bit deeper.

The "loser" comment was just a quick reframe that:
a) isn't true - the person who's "misbehaving" probably has his own rules that he's following and doesn't think he's being an a**hole. For example, if I cut someone off in traffic because I am running late to a big meeting, or someone in my family is sick and I need to get meds, in my head I am not an “a**hole” or “loser” but whoever flips me the bird from the other car probably thinks I am both. When my wife was in labour and I double parked my car and didn’t pay parking right across from hospital entrance... Some might think I was a total douchebag, especially because I drive a Range Rover and everyone knows, those douchebags double park all the time!
b) was meant for me to be able to let go. I need tools as a calm person to remain calm even when the events around me violate my own "rules" of life. You should have many rules that keep you calm, if that’s what you choose do be.

Family is similar, same identity applies. My identity is that of a calm person. Family will not trigger me, but because I love them, I will invest time and energy into resolving conflict (vs just shrugging and walking away). They get the benefit of doubt.

For example: my wife and I have been together for over 20 years. When we have a fight / conflict I want to hang on to "But I am right, damn it". What if I am not right? She gets the benefit of doubt, I want to talk it out with her. Some random person in a store means nothing to me, they didn't earn the right to occupy space in my head or waste my time.

Here’s another way to think, a 10-10-10 rule.

Ask yourself: “How will I feel in 10 hours about this event? How about 10 months? How about 10 years?” And then get excited appropriately. If I’ll forget it ever happen by tomorrow, why even bother? But If it’s something that’ll last 10 years… gee… I guess I should invest time to get it resolved, whatever it is.

Dude, I love your posts. So damn thoughtful, and they always leave me with something to chew on.

Thanks for saying this, it means a lot to me!


Edit:

A powerful quote that fits here very well:

“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”​

― Viktor E. Frankl

If you haven't read Man's Search for Meaning Book by Viktor Frankl, I highly recommend.
From wikipedia:

"a 1946 book by Viktor Frankl chronicling his experiences as a prisoner in Nazi concentration camps during World War II, and describing his psychotherapeutic method, which involved identifying a purpose in life to feel positive about, and then immersively imagining that outcome. According to Frankl, the way a prisoner imagined the future affected his longevity. The book intends to answer the question "How was everyday life in a concentration camp reflected in the mind of the average prisoner?"

 

[Andy Black]

I see anger as not wanting things the way they are AND a feeling of helplessness that it can't be changed.

It helps me deal with people who are angry. And it helps me stop getting angry.

 

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[WJK]

I have a quick temper, it's something I've been working on for a long time now, but at the moment I'm struggling. I'm trying to quit or at least cut down on smoking (marijuana), but it's the only thing that calms me when I feel myself flying into a rage. Maybe it's got something to do with my childhood, I grew up in an area where the ability to be violent was an asset.

I'm 51 now and it's better than in my teens, 20s, or even 30s. In fact if I lived in America through that time, the easy access to guns over there leaves me in no doubt I'd be in prison for murder. Even though I'm 51 now, I almost got into a fight the other day with some little scrote who was rude to me in a shop, it's only because he threatened to shoot me (not a real threat where I live) and I started laughing, which diffused the situation.

I hate losing my shit, I hate how I feel afterwards, I hate making people feel scared or uncomfortable (I'm a big [not fat] guy) and it just all round feels like a waste of energy.

The usual advice (count to ten and all that bs) does not work on me, I'm too angry in the moment to feel it. When I lose it, I can feel my brain splitting in two. On one side is the rational, much quieter side saying "no, chill, don't do this. You'll regret this afterwards" The other, much louder, side of me is shouting "JUST F*ckING SMASH!!!"

So, anyone else out there with these issues that has found a good coping mechanism please feel free to drop a few lines on how it's worked for you.

I know in a negotiation that the guy who gets the most emotional loses. I hate losing for stupid reasons -- like my own bad behavior. How can you hear what the other person is saying? How can you think if you are having a meltdown?

And here's another thought. You may be intimidating other people with your outbursts, but you are not convincing them of anything. They will walk away and never return if they can get away from you. You should want people to like you and trust you. Who likes or trusts a bully? You can't get people on your team IF you act like an a$$. Business and human life take the cooperation of other people. Instead, you are asking others to be passive-aggressive with you when they must deal with you. They will try to take you down.

You have a vested interest in controlling yourself. Your behavior pattern is self-defeating. Maybe you need to talk to the guy in your mirror and make some hard decisions. Only you can control yourself!

 

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[Matt Lee]

Have you tried writing out what you'd do to a person when you are angry in a private journal?

I think I got this routine from the book "How to stop worrying and start living". Abraham Lincoln (if I recall correctly) did this too because he had quite a temper. He never quite mailed these angry letters to the recipients or maybe he did... but his wife burnt them before they got shipped.

In short, when something or someone live in your head rent-free, it's best if you put your feelings and thoughts down on paper---how nasty the person is, what you feel like doing to them(if the police wouldn't catch you), why they are such assholes, and whatever detail you'd like to put down. Then you close the journal and you get on with your life.

You're better than to 1) burst/lose control and 2) give them a reaction. People love it when you get angry because it give them a reason to get angry too. Yeah, but he started first. He punched me first.

Your time is always worth more than having to argue or prove a point to someone. I find myself asking when I get pissed off "Do they even deserve my time?" or "I'll be the bigger man here". I also learned the hard way that I really can't change anyone's opinion or attitude even if I make a rational argument. They're always on the right side and I'm always wrong. Even if I'm actually right... so proving that you're right is a waste of time.

Lastly, it's best not to show anyone that journal(they might put you in a psych ward). What has helped me is just to write out all the bad stuff that's on my mind and read it a few times. Then you'll have a bird eye view of how the other person is actually an idiot and you'd be a bigger idiot if you let the other idiot get a reaction from you.

 

[Private Witt]

I'm on day 30 of quitting weed and can say my anxiety has plummeted and feel way more calm. I'm a passive/aggressive non-violent person so a little different but I do get upset with things and bottle it up and once every six months or so lose my chit and interested to see what others say on this matter.

 

[Roli]

I have a quick temper, it's something I've been working on for a long time now, but at the moment I'm struggling. I'm trying to quit or at least cut down on smoking (marijuana), but it's the only thing that calms me when I feel myself flying into a rage. Maybe it's got something to do with my childhood, I grew up in an area where the ability to be violent was an asset.

I'm 51 now and it's better than in my teens, 20s, or even 30s. In fact if I lived in America through that time, the easy access to guns over there leaves me in no doubt I'd be in prison for murder. Even though I'm 51 now, I almost got into a fight the other day with some little scrote who was rude to me in a shop, it's only because he threatened to shoot me (not a real threat where I live) and I started laughing, which diffused the situation.

I hate losing my shit, I hate how I feel afterwards, I hate making people feel scared or uncomfortable (I'm a big [not fat] guy) and it just all round feels like a waste of energy.

The usual advice (count to ten and all that bs) does not work on me, I'm too angry in the moment to feel it. When I lose it, I can feel my brain splitting in two. On one side is the rational, much quieter side saying "no, chill, don't do this. You'll regret this afterwards" The other, much louder, side of me is shouting "JUST F*ckING SMASH!!!"

So, anyone else out there with these issues that has found a good coping mechanism please feel free to drop a few lines on how it's worked for you.

 

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[Choate]

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that the long term weed use has you functioning at a lower level than you could be functioning on, and it's not the solution to your fits of rage, but rather a contributing factor. I've seen similar in other long time smokers in my own family.

Quit the weed and hit the gym more.

 

[DW85014]

I have a quick temper, it's something I've been working on for a long time now, but at the moment I'm struggling. I'm trying to quit or at least cut down on smoking (marijuana), but it's the only thing that calms me when I feel myself flying into a rage. Maybe it's got something to do with my childhood, I grew up in an area where the ability to be violent was an asset.

I'm 51 now and it's better than in my teens, 20s, or even 30s. In fact if I lived in America through that time, the easy access to guns over there leaves me in no doubt I'd be in prison for murder. Even though I'm 51 now, I almost got into a fight the other day with some little scrote who was rude to me in a shop, it's only because he threatened to shoot me (not a real threat where I live) and I started laughing, which diffused the situation.

I hate losing my shit, I hate how I feel afterwards, I hate making people feel scared or uncomfortable (I'm a big [not fat] guy) and it just all round feels like a waste of energy.

The usual advice (count to ten and all that bs) does not work on me, I'm too angry in the moment to feel it. When I lose it, I can feel my brain splitting in two. On one side is the rational, much quieter side saying "no, chill, don't do this. You'll regret this afterwards" The other, much louder, side of me is shouting "JUST F*ckING SMASH!!!"

So, anyone else out there with these issues that has found a good coping mechanism please feel free to drop a few lines on how it's worked for you.

So at 22 I was just like you. I had a quick temper flew off the handle very quickly and blamed everyone around me for the bulk of my problems.

One day one of my best friends said something pretty rude to me and all I could think about was killing him for the insult.

We were roommates at the time and I took a walk to calm down, walked down to bookstore - which was easily 2 miles away at the time - I was in Chicago at the time. Anyway, I used to use read when I got really stressed and the first few books I read in that bookstore just set me off more.

I came across the Christianity aisle and things didn't calm me down.

I went to the history aisle and nothing seemed to calm me down but found some strategies for killing my friend quicker.

Then I came upon the Eastern Philosophy section and I picked up a book of koans and started to read.

One was the story of a group of 30 guy friends who had gone on camping trip on a mountain- back in 500 BC (it was a cool thing to do back then rumor has it) :
So 29 of the guys had brought along their wives but one single guy brought along a courtesan (basically a prostitute).
Well, the guys and the girls partied into the wee hours of the night, got drunk and had some fun.
However, in the morning, one of the first to wake up noticed his (500 BC-era wallet was gone) then his wife noticed that all her jewelery was gone. As more couples woke up they noticed their possesions were gone as well.
Then Larry (the guy who brought the courtesan- rumor has it) noticed the courtesan was gone and so was his wallet.
Well the group was furious a little bit at Larry for bringing the courtesan but mostly at the courtesan because clearly she had robbed them all.

So a group of the guys started down the mountain in search for the courtesan and the first person they came to - a young man - they said "Have you seen this courtesan? She took all our money! She took all our jewelry! we must find her and get our revenge!"
The young man said "No I haven't seen the courtesan"
They thanked him and moved on.

The group got farther down the mountain and came upon an old lady. They asked the old lady ""Have you seen this courtesan? She took all our money! She took all our jewelry! we must find her and get our revenge!""
The old lady said "No I haven't seen the courtesan"
They thanked her and moved on.

Finally, they came upon this guy from town named Buddha who always hung out at this Bodhi Tree. They asked Buddha " Hey Buddha, have you seen this courtesan? She took all our money! She took all our jewelry! we must find her and get our revenge!"

Buddha thought for a moment and said "No, I haven't seen the courtesan, BUT, Can I ask YOU a question"

Larry and the gang thought for a 1/2 second and said "Sure" Still a little angry but confused.

Buddha asked "Is it more important for you to find this courtesan or to find enlightenment?"

They thought for a 1/2 second and said "Well, enlightenment...duh"

Buddha replied "Well sit down and meditate with me now" and those who sat became the first Buddhist monks.

Anyway after I read that, something flipped in me and I started pursuing my ideal of "the truth" and reducing the list of things that annoy me. I also started Meditating pretty regularly too. Also, that best friend is still a best friend today but that's a whole 'nother story.

What's odd is that I also started wearing a jade necklace then as well and it's been about 20 years at this point almost exactly and just yesterday my 2nd jade necklace broke from about 15 years of wear and tear. Not sure if that's a sign from the universe to evolve my worldview further or just to get another necklace.

My advice to the author though is pursue meditation as a practice - possibly guided meditation if you're not sure where to start.

If you read down to this point you should get a prize - I hope this was helpful.

 

[Private Witt]

How do you avoid feeling the helplessness @Andy Black ? Let’s say someone from your team steals $20,000 from you, and you can’t legally pursue them for whatever reason. How would you avoid feeling helpless in that situation, and hence angry, if you know you most likely can’t get the money back?

In this case this is when this happens..

 

[Private Witt]

Here's to the next 30 days! Cheers!

By the way, I don't smoke skunk as that triggers anxiety in a massive way, but still, I take your point about the anxiety.

Thanks man! Hate to tell you this but long term weed abuse regardless of skunk or which other stain leads to anxiety, the suppression of REM sleep and other issues we think it's actually helping. New age cannabis is not like the old days stuff. Maybe in your country a little different but if you think you are abusing weed it may have something to do with your anger but sure like you said environment has something to do with too. Hope you can find some peace and thrive. I'm looking forward to what 100 days weed free looks like. This is a double challenge for me as own many brands in cannabis.

 

[Kevin88660]

I have a quick temper, it's something I've been working on for a long time now, but at the moment I'm struggling. I'm trying to quit or at least cut down on smoking (marijuana), but it's the only thing that calms me when I feel myself flying into a rage. Maybe it's got something to do with my childhood, I grew up in an area where the ability to be violent was an asset.

I'm 51 now and it's better than in my teens, 20s, or even 30s. In fact if I lived in America through that time, the easy access to guns over there leaves me in no doubt I'd be in prison for murder. Even though I'm 51 now, I almost got into a fight the other day with some little scrote who was rude to me in a shop, it's only because he threatened to shoot me (not a real threat where I live) and I started laughing, which diffused the situation.

I hate losing my shit, I hate how I feel afterwards, I hate making people feel scared or uncomfortable (I'm a big [not fat] guy) and it just all round feels like a waste of energy.

The usual advice (count to ten and all that bs) does not work on me, I'm too angry in the moment to feel it. When I lose it, I can feel my brain splitting in two. On one side is the rational, much quieter side saying "no, chill, don't do this. You'll regret this afterwards" The other, much louder, side of me is shouting "JUST F*ckING SMASH!!!"

So, anyone else out there with these issues that has found a good coping mechanism please feel free to drop a few lines on how it's worked for you.

There is usually two component to this and one is personality and temper which you are trying to work on.

The other component is how satisfied you are with your own life which you could work on the imperfection here and there.

I am generally good tempered but during lows of life when things don’t get my way I could remember viewing the outside world in a more antagonist manner.

When your own life is in order and you see incremental progress you are less likely yo get triggered.

 

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[socaldude]

You have to "de-construct" and "de-energize" anger.

Anger is a stimulus response to a person who caused you pain, then you project thoughts, justifications and actions towards that person.

You need self-awareness and then you need to replace the anger with better values and more positive emotions.

Also you are just hurting yourself in the end as anger is a form of sadness and weakness.

 

[PureA]

I get angry when I'm anxious (too many stimulants) - check your stim intake.

Check your diet, the blood sugar rollercoaster will make a beast out of any man. You are an organic machine... inputs = outputs

You've heard it a million times before, but meditation will change your life. Use the waking up app by Sam Harris. Try it for 30 days and I promise you won't want to go back, you can always quit...

If you need an endorsement Ray Dailo credits meditation is the most important thing in helping him accumulate $19b.

pm me if you want.

 

[WJK]

Everyone says this, but this hasn’t been my experience. I frequently get angry and emotional in negotiations and I tend to win more often than not. In fact, I’d win LESS if I wouldn’t get as emotional. Getting emotional allows you to uncover the truth and get the other side to face the facts. Everybody wants to take the easy way out instead, and will only go down the hard path if pushed from behind.

Although, I will give you that getting emotional tends to drain you and probably has bad effects on your health. But it works.

That only works IF you aren't ruffled inside. Yes, I can put on a good show and get my way. I’m much better at winning rather than losing. My best skill is getting others to think that it is their idea. That works a lot better for me.

BUT, if I was really angry inside, it wouldn't work. Anger makes you do and say stupid things. It disconnects your rational brain from your emotional brain.

 

[Happyheart]

I hear ya! I get hangry if I don't eat right.

I meditate, however I've heard this is good, however I can't be asked to pay for something I so easily do for free.

I do indeed meditate, everyday for around 10-15 minutes. It doesn't help in the moment though... or maybe it does and I haven't noticed!


It's funny because in my OP I was going to say, I don't want to rid myself completely of my anger, because I see it as my passion. Plus as I'm getting older, I want to know I can still fight if some young buck tries it with me.

My daughter helps, I feel terrible any time I shout at her and do it less and less these days.

Anger like you say, can be good, but loss of control is not, I guess that's my main problem.

The interesting question of control. Would you be able to control yourself if a big muscular guy with a machine gun was aiming at you? If yes, you have to acknowledge that you do have control, but unconsciously give yourself permission to act out, because you can. If no, you need to think about medical help.


1. If the adrenalin kicks in you think with your reptile brain, that know to kill or be killed. You want to take advantage of your frontal cortex - your intelligent brain
2. learn to relax your body at the drop of a hat (this takes a few months) - if you do this in tense situations it will help make the adrenalin go away and you can think with the intelligent part of the brain
3. Every time you do this, it will make the nerve paths in your brain stronger that lead you to think with your frontal lobe when angry and you will learn to relax very swiftly in tense situations

Our brains are plastic and can change. There are people who learn how to ride a one-wheeled cycle on a tightrope. If they can, you can learn how to think with your frontal brain instead of with your instincts. Takes practice though. You have gotten some very good answers about nutrition and sport as well.

Good luck!

 

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[Roli]

If that happened my first reaction would likely be shock and like my stomach had dropped. I don't think my first reaction would be anger.

I'd try to breathe and maybe go for a walk. I'd be trying to calm my mind and not make matters worse.

I worked in IT supporting critical business systems. The first thing I learned was to keep my head and not make things worse.

"Nothing's so f*cked up you can't f*ck it up more."

Think your way through it, rather than go off half cocked. And if that means stepping away to take a few breathes and calm down then that's better than hammering away at it.

In those moments, and on that walk, I'd try and figure out if I can do anything about it, and if I can't, then what I can do to not allow things to get worse.

I'll logically try and control what I think about the situation, and go looking for silver linings. In a way I'm hacking my own brain.

"I'm glad it was only $20k they stole and I found out now."

"At least I found out and got rid of them before they ruined my reputation in the market."

"How can I turn this to my advantage? Are there holes in my systems that I can now see and close?"

Etc.

I remember hearing a boss give a reference for me on the phone. "What's he like under pressure? Ha. He's still there, giggling."

I'm known to get calmer when the shit hits the fan, not madder. It's intentional and I suspect my military dad had a hand in that.

Having spoken to you personally and read a ton of your content on here, I can one hundred percent believe you would react like that.

I on the other hand would be sitting there inventing different and ingenious ways in which I can hurt the person. Although situations such as this hypothetical aren't my problem. It's the situations whereby I need to stay calm in the moment which are my Achilles

 

[Andy Black]

Lots of interesting replies already…

A little different angle for you from my own life. Growing up in Eastern Europe being tough was an asset. That and various family dynamics made my fuse short.

Today I am seem by most people around me as the calm and rational one. Never buckle under pressure, and you can’t set me off even if you try.

What’s the difference?

One word: identity.

Who are you as a person? What is your identity? I accepted that since as far back as I can remember, I was meant to be tough. Weak men are weak for a reason. I thought being angry was being tough, only later to realize that only weak men are angry. Men who aren’t in control aren’t tough. “Losing it” isn’t being tough, it’s the opposite.

In the animal kingdom, there is a certain graceful calmness about top of the pyramid predators. They are in control over their emotions. Same with humans. And that realization is what changed me. My identity is consistent with my behaviour now.

I am a calm person. Try as you might to set me off, you won’t succeed. You may even be physically stronger than me, but I’ll be tougher.


Sidebar: distilling why someone typically gets mad is simple. It is a violation of a rule in your own mind. Your rule. Not a real rule, just your own rule that you made up. That means you can make up a new rule. Unless you are weak. Weak men cannot do that. Like when someone is rude to you. It is your rule that “such and such has no right to talk to me this way”. My rule will be “this personal demeanour is beneath me, people who are like me don’t engage with losers like this person. People like him did not earn the right to take up my time and any emotion from me, that is reserved for people I like/love” etc.


Outcome?
- Turns out my new approach means I do very well in negotiations. And that helps me with my business.
- Same with family
… most of all, I am happier being this way.

In short, don’t look for a “method”. As Nike says “just do it” - you have the power within you to change your mind from being easily triggered to someone who’s calm. Calm people are wickedly tough.

Edit:
Of course, everyone has limits. And I do mediate (TM), go for walks, read and write to remain in control over my responses to life’s events. The difference is just like for people who try to quit an addiction. As long as you identify as a “smoker who’s trying to quit” you’ll fail. The minute you start identifying as a “non-smoker who occasionally smokes” you’ve done it. Identity.

It is not what happens to you, it is how you react to it that matters.

I think this is key.

I see anger as coming from a feeling of helplessness. I don't see or want to see myself as helpless, so I refuse to get angry.

It doesn't really matter if anger comes from a feeling of helplessness or not. In this case, I believe what I need to believe to get the outcome I want.

I see anger as a weakness so it's not something I want as part of my identity.

I also see calmness as a sign of strength. I see the leader as the one who keeps his head and works his way through the problem whole everyone around them is panicking.

 

[Strategery]

Lots of interesting replies already…

A little different angle for you from my own life. Growing up in Eastern Europe being tough was an asset. That and various family dynamics made my fuse short.

Today I am seem by most people around me as the calm and rational one. Never buckle under pressure, and you can’t set me off even if you try.

What’s the difference?

One word: identity.

Who are you as a person? What is your identity? I accepted that since as far back as I can remember, I was meant to be tough. Weak men are weak for a reason. I thought being angry was being tough, only later to realize that only weak men are angry. Men who aren’t in control aren’t tough. “Losing it” isn’t being tough, it’s the opposite.

In the animal kingdom, there is a certain graceful calmness about top of the pyramid predators. They are in control over their emotions. Same with humans. And that realization is what changed me. My identity is consistent with my behaviour now.

I am a calm person. Try as you might to set me off, you won’t succeed. You may even be physically stronger than me, but I’ll be tougher.


Sidebar: distilling why someone typically gets mad is simple. It is a violation of a rule in your own mind. Your rule. Not a real rule, just your own rule that you made up. That means you can make up a new rule. Unless you are weak. Weak men cannot do that. Like when someone is rude to you. It is your rule that “such and such has no right to talk to me this way”. My rule will be “this personal demeanour is beneath me, people who are like me don’t engage with losers like this person. People like him did not earn the right to take up my time and any emotion from me, that is reserved for people I like/love” etc.


Outcome?
- Turns out my new approach means I do very well in negotiations. And that helps me with my business.
- Same with family
… most of all, I am happier being this way.

In short, don’t look for a “method”. As Nike says “just do it” - you have the power within you to change your mind from being easily triggered to someone who’s calm. Calm people are wickedly tough.

Edit:
Of course, everyone has limits. And I do mediate (TM), go for walks, read and write to remain in control over my responses to life’s events. The difference is just like for people who try to quit an addiction. As long as you identify as a “smoker who’s trying to quit” you’ll fail. The minute you start identifying as a “non-smoker who occasionally smokes” you’ve done it. Identity.

It is not what happens to you, it is how you react to it that matters.

Dude, I love your posts. So damn thoughtful, and they always leave me with something to chew on.

I can really resonate with your self-talk approach to this. One thing I think that would help @Roli is to do what you’re saying, and also to go a step further and ask yourself, are the people that I hang around promoting this behavior in me? In other words, do they accept it to avoid conflict? If not, maybe think of who’s opinions you respect, and who would simultaneously not accept behavior like that and surround yourself with them. I feel like that helps to “prove” the new self-talk/identity to your subconscious.

 

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[Roli]

Check your diet, the blood sugar rollercoaster will make a beast out of any man.

I hear ya! I get hangry if I don't eat right.

Use the waking up app by Sam Harris.

I meditate, however I've heard this is good, however I can't be asked to pay for something I so easily do for free.

My advice to the author though is pursue meditation as a practice - possibly guided meditation if you're not sure where to start.

If you read down to this point you should get a prize - I hope this was helpful.

I do indeed meditate, everyday for around 10-15 minutes. It doesn't help in the moment though... or maybe it does and I haven't noticed!

My take will not be liked by most people, but I think anger is a gift. If you’re not angry, you’ll struggle to get rich.

I’m angry when I see someone doing better than me — that motivates me to work hard and get ahead of them.

It's funny because in my OP I was going to say, I don't want to rid myself completely of my anger, because I see it as my passion. Plus as I'm getting older, I want to know I can still fight if some young buck tries it with me.

My daughter helps, I feel terrible any time I shout at her and do it less and less these days.

Anger like you say, can be good, but loss of control is not, I guess that's my main problem.

 

[REV5028]

It seems like you're on a good path forward! I agree with a lot of what you and others have said about diet, exercising, cutting back on weed, meditation, and not dismissing anger altogether. I think of anger as a secondary emotion - there's almost always a deeper reason/emotion for the anger. I think it helps to dig deeper into the anger. Kind of like how Andy described what he would do in a situation where $20k was stolen from him. It's not anger first, it's betrayal, surprise, sadness, relief, disappointment, etc. all at once that bubble up so fast that you don't have enough time to feel all the feels and so you express anger and rage. If you can reflect on past times where you felt really really angry and identify all the emotions comprising the anger, I think it could help you deescalate things and keep a little calmer in the future when you start becoming enraged. Also, where did your anger issues start? I used to have horrible road rage until I realized that I was really getting upset over nothing and I realized that I was just copying my dad.

 

[Isaac Odongo]

Anger is part of our emotional makeup. Thus, there are times when expressing anger in a controlled fashion may be appropriate. However, unhealthy anger, can harm us and others emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

Anger that is controlled has advantages. It can help in overcoming obstacles.

Problem anger on the other hand is dangerous. It is a lack of self control. This is a huge weakness. It could directly lead you to a worse life situation than you want to be in. It hurts, physically, emotionally, socially and spiritually.

You've lost your head. You're mad.
You've people who value their peace. They'll leave you.
You're on verge of getting into serious trouble.
You could find yourself a criminal.
Your friends are probably enduring. I don't know why.
But your daughter is suffering. You could do better for her.

You are stronger and more controlled.
You are master of your mind. You are pilot of yourself.
You are captain of your emotions.
You keep them in check.

A 19-year-old male beat his fiancée’s 11-month-old baby to death. The man had been playing a violent video game and lost his temper when the baby touched the game’s control panel and thus caused the man to forfeit the game.

You don't want to be the one in the report above. Or do you?

The brochure Boiling Point—Problem Anger and What We Can Do About It describes “problem anger” as “any dysfunctional way of relating to and managing anger that persistently causes significant difficulties in a person’s life including their thinking, feeling, behaviour and relationships.”

Could that be your problem?

Well, this may help.

“Let anger alone and leave rage; do not show yourself heated up only to do evil.” (Psalm 37:8)

1. Slow down and relax. The way Andy and Antifragile explain.
2. Learn to relax. “A calm heart is the life of the fleshly organism.” (Proverbs 14:30)
   • Breathing deeply
   • Repeating an action verb such as "relax", "calm down". Remember, “Where there is no wood the fire goes out.” Proverbs 26:20
   • Take your leave immediately. In many situations you can do this. Help diffuse the probable explosion. “The beginning of contention is as one letting out waters; so before the quarrel has burst forth, take your leave.” Proverbs 17:14.
   • Immerse yourself into something meaningful, self development. Like reading, listening to music or doing whatever you find relaxing. But not stimulants. Would smoke to strengthen your lungs? Would get drunken to strengthen your kidneys? Would you gorge on fatty meat to strengthen your heart? Why do you do weed to strengthen your mind? It's ironical.
   • Getting regular exercise. To strengthen your heart, your mind, your lungs, and your life. Ask @Shono.
3. Change your thinking. Remember humans are imperfect. Mistakes and failures will abound. Yes, “there is no man righteous in the earth that keeps doing good and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20) You youself will err and relapse into your anger. Remember, an athlete who slips and falls in the the race doesn't stop altogether. Get up and keep on.

 

[biophase]

I hate losing my shit, I hate how I feel afterwards, I hate making people feel scared or uncomfortable (I'm a big [not fat] guy) and it just all round feels like a waste of energy.

So, anyone else out there with these issues that has found a good coping mechanism please feel free to drop a few lines on how it's worked for you.

I just heard this in a podcast, but can't remember which one. The person said that when he was in high school one of his friend's dad suddenly became very mean to everyone. Turned out that the dad was diagnosed with a brain tumor years later and passed away. Then everyone suddenly understood why the sudden mood change and felt bad.

So now when someone gets him mad, he just assumes that the other person has an undiagnosed illness which then makes him feel empathy and diffuses his anger towards the person.

I used to go to 24hr Walmart around midnight because I can avoid all the crowds and get in and out. Many times, the checkout person would be either rude or just not friendly. It never bothered me because I understood it must suck that your job is to work the overnight register shift at Walmart. I'm about to leave to go home and sleep and this person has to stand here another 6 hours.

 

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[S.Y.]

It's quite a skill to be able to condescend via the written word. Well done.

I re-read what I wrote and you are right. I am sorry @Roli.

My intent was to give a different perspective and some pointers on where you can find tools that can help you. The delivery was pure hot garbage.

And please, if anything, look at CBT. It has a lot of tools, many of them very accessible to help people change their behaviours.

 

[Raedrum]

I have the same kind of issues, I do not tolerate disrespect and think that it should be crushed immediately without compromise.

Of course the world do not work like that.

My advice is you take boxing lessons. It seems that it will make it worse but believe me it is actually a great way of tempering your emotions. The mindset of self-esteem and skills that results will actually make it a lot easier for you to "let it go". Plus there is the intense exercices that will be beneficial and calm you down.

Any coach will say that this is great for anger issues.

If you are technically able to crush someone's neck, you just won't do it. Fighters are generally very calm, only using their skills in dangerous situation.

In addition people will eventually feel it and stay out of the way.

Being 51 is no problem, you obviously won't do competition, but beside that it's all benefits. (and yes, young fighters at the gym will respect that)

(PS: when I say boxing I mean any martial art/combat you'd like to do).

I seriously believe learning combat is on of the best thing one can do.

 

[Roli]

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that the long term weed use has you functioning at a lower level than you could be functioning on, and it's not the solution to your fits of rage, but rather a contributing factor. I've seen similar in other long time smokers in my own family.

Quit the weed and hit the gym more.

You are one hundred percent right. The old me would have got super defensive, but it's clearly true.

I exercise 5-6 days a week, eat healthily, do cold exposure and anything else I can in order to if not negate, at least mitigate some of the negative effects of smoking. Bizarely in my last health check a couple of years ago, I apparently have the lung capacity of a 21 year old elite athlete, so I guess it's working somewhat on a physiological level. However, like you correctly point out, on a psychological level it is affecting me big time.

I am on a cut down regime, I've tried cold-turkey and it hasn't worked, so I'm going for control over abstinence.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I know in a negotiation that the guy who gets the most emotional loses.

Everyone says this, but this hasn’t been my experience. I frequently get angry and emotional in negotiations and I tend to win more often than not. In fact, I’d win LESS if I wouldn’t get as emotional. Getting emotional allows you to uncover the truth and get the other side to face the facts. Everybody wants to take the easy way out instead, and will only go down the hard path if pushed from behind.

Although, I will give you that getting emotional tends to drain you and probably has bad effects on your health. But it works.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

That only works IF you aren't ruffled inside. Yes, I can put on a good show and get my way.

Right, you still need to retain control. But… “putting on a good show” as you say, is still emotionally draining. You will still feel anger, fight or flight etc, it’s just that you will be in control of what you say and do.

 

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[Kevin88660]

How do you avoid feeling the helplessness @Andy Black ? Let’s say someone from your team steals $20,000 from you, and you can’t legally pursue them for whatever reason. How would you avoid feeling helpless in that situation, and hence angry, if you know you most likely can’t get the money back?

I think the orginal intention of the thread was about how to cut down unnecessary escalations.

Back to your question thieves have pattern that are recognizable. They likely have stolen in the past or have chronic gambling or money issues. I would blame the victim’s background check process also for letting someone gain access to that money without due dilligence.

Don’t start worrying about the issue only when it already happens.

I would never think it is a good idea to trust a gigantic sum of money to trust in a single unmarried guy with no children. When men become parents they become a different kinds of animals who stop taking stupid unethical risk. You don’t want to have vengeful enemies in the world when you have children.

 

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