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HOT TOPIC Agree or Disagree: Entrepreneurship is a privilege

Fox

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That privilege mindset is putting massive blinders on your ability to see the millions of examples that don’t match your beliefs.

Did some “privileged” people start businesses - ya sure
Have millions of others done so with little or no resources - yes of course

Play with what you got and don’t worry about the others.

—-

On the flip side to all this privilege nonsense - who wouldn’t give their own children the biggest leg up they could in life? For every privileged person there is someone who behind the scenes who put in the work and sacrificed.

To complain about privilege is to also think it’s wrong to pass on your own lessons and resources to your children. In a way you are complaining that some benefit by their own families making smart decisions and working hard in the past. It’s mental maths for those who can’t do the work and always want a “fresh start” so everyone starts from zero again.

Fact - someone with less than you is going more while you sit and wish things that will never happen.
 

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Raoul Duke

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You ever notice that some of the big players here like Kak, Vig, JasonR, Bio go missing for weeks, even months on end?
Have you ever noticed, that all I do, is shit post?
 

Thoelt53

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Really? No disrespect MJ, but you do need decent amount of money to start a productocracy. Even something as low cost as programming, will need capital to get market feedback with ads at least. I am making the assumption that most people have internet, smartphone, and laptop. I can see non-productocracy businesses that can be started with near $0 capital, but those businesses are pointless to start.

If I were to make a physical product based business like a backpack that is a productocracy. It requires a lot of trial and error. Trial and error isn't free. If you go DIY route, you got to be able to pay for all the tools, equipment, and materials to make the prototypes. This is necessary so no one can just Alibaba my stuff. If you go outsource method, you got to pay the manufacturer to prototype for you. Either way, there is always a cost. Obviously, designing a backpack is not in the league of Silicon Valley, but shows that a small business produtocracy does require capital as well.

Edit: How did I forget? There is a zero cost business model, but I don’t really consider it a productocracy. Not sure if you can value skew content exactly. Unless something truly unique about yourself. Social Media Personal Branding, Audience Aggregation.
You need to go and find the MFCEO Project on iTunes or google it to pull it up in your browser.

Find episode #089, “Zero Options Mentality.” Fast forward to 7:30 if you wish.

Don’t come back until you give that a listen.

Maybe hearing it instead of reading it will help you understand what the dozens of posters before me are trying to tell you. Which you chose to graze right over to further argue your ignorance to @MJ DeMarco.
 

Roz

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zen*******, once a respected member on this forum, said the following lines in another thread,

if you define the world by what you cant do, it will look like that for the rest of your life.

if you start to define the world by what do you have to do to get X, it will start to shape its self, accordingly
 

Scot

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zen*******, once a respected member on this forum, said the following lines in another thread,
Which, in his case....

Not really advice I’d recommend to follow.
 
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MoreValue

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Yes, when Jeff Bezos left his investment banking job to start an online book store he was so privileged.

How dare he even try. #entreprenuershipprivilege #metoo
Wasn’t speaking about the intention. That’s not the priviledge part. Many people have the intention to start a business, but never do due to capital/resources. Bezos got like an 80k loan if I remember correctly.

Will respond to all other posts, but gotta work now.
 

Determined2012

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Yes a lot of lies and bullshit circulates around about this.

The first thing that must be understood is the power law of return. Thiel talks about this in his zero-to-one book. "Theoretically" everyone can get rich with a startup, but if you look at who does get rich and where, there are a lot of patterns. The internet, supposedly "democratizing" everything, actually resulted in most of the big name tech companies coming out of the San Francisco bay area.

Claiming it's just about having a good idea and working hard is complete bullshit. Instagram was not a good idea. It's dead simple. People were already sharing pictures on the internet long before Instagram. But instagram got a bit of traction so they hit it with multiple rounds of funding until it blew up. Instragram simply would not have become a household name were it not for the millions pumped into marketing it. Mass popularity is bought.

This is all because of the power law of return. The VCs pump huge cash into 10 ventures, multiplying investments by around 10 at each stage of confirmed progress, because they know due to the power law curve that the 9 that fail are irrelevant as long as they get 1 that blows up.

This is the same reason that people say "your first 1 million is the hardest", because after that you're up in the blade of the power law curve, and a 1% shift horizontally causes a 10% shift vertically. E.g. once you create an offer that reliably converts, and you know an ad for it costs $1 per click, and it makes you back $5 lifetime customer value, it's just a case of pumping money into the ads, and managing fulfillment and cash flow in order to blow it up.

This is why the best step from being poor is not to launch into some capital heavy business, but to focus on building a marketable skill and reputation for that skill, until you can make enough income per hour to save up money and reinvest it in business pursuits.

It's not about jumping from being a shoe store clerk into opening a restaurant chain. Those concepts are just foolhardy and encourage more failure than is necessary. That's why you've got 1000 guys grinding away at their fluff blog getting nowhere, because one guy pulled it off once and 10000 people heard about it. It's about increasing your active income, from your marketable skill, first. I.e. getting to the point of sale, not being some lowly unskilled (or skilled) laborer at the bottom of a corporate hierarchy. After that it's much much easier to build more passive income (leveraged) projects, because you've got more surplus income, more savings, and a skill & reputation you can fall back on if your passive projects fail.

This is the EXACT method Grant Cardone teaches in his Millionaire Playbook for Wealth Creation!
 

ChrisV

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I agree. Those who who are successful are just lucky that they have such a great work ethic work

They’re privileged to live in a capitalist society where this is okay

They really caught the right breaks in life like getting those promotions they worked hard for

They’re fortunate they found some great books that changed their perspective

But honestly, I would argue that the wealthy that start businesses have to make bigger sacrifices. There are people who left their cushy corporate 6 figure job in order to pursue entrepreneurship. That’s sacrifice. When you’re working at Friendly's and start a business it’s like ‘what do you have to lose?’ It’s not really sacrifice.

If you want the truth, you’re actually right in a sense. The data does support what you’re saying. Successful entrepreneurs are more likely to come from good families, wealthy families and despite popular opinion, entrepreneurs are statistically more likely to succeed if they have a degree. That’s not to say that the degree caused the successful entrepreneurship... it could easily be a testament to their work ethic and intelligence (and likely is.)

But it doesn't matter. Those who want to start a biz? Just get your little paycheck, cut back expenses, hold off on the next iPhone and put all that money into your business. If you don’t have much money, offset it with skills. Pick out some books related to your field on Audible. Learn sales (one of the most valuable skills you can have) and other skillsets.
 

Walter Hay

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That doesn’t make any sense. A productocracy is something you BECOME, not something you START.

If you’re looking to start a productocracy, you’ve already lost.

The thing is, privilege or not, it doesn’t matter.

Nobody cares about your privilege or lack of, it’s what you DO WITH IT.

Discussing privilege doesn’t move the ball down the court.

You know what does?......

Action.
How true. I started with $47 but I had to feed my wife and two children until I got that first order.

I had negotiated a monthly account with my supplier without any references or credit history. No money to buy inventory.

I made that big value sale and ordered the product from my supplier. I picked it up, hurried home, removed the labeling, replaced it with my own improvised label, hurried back to my first customer ever, and delivered the goods.

I persuaded the customer to pay within 7 days so we all got fed. I also had cash to pay for fuel to go out and sell more.

That business developed into a huge productocracy exporting to countries all over the Asia/Pacific region.

No privilege, no big bank account - just blood sweat and tears.

Anything is possible. How can MoreValue say it is not?

Walter
 

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MJ DeMarco

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I can see non-productocracy businesses that can be started with near $0 capital, but those businesses are pointless to start.
In other words, you want to start the next Facebook in 6 days. You want your "hard work" to be guaranteed and not wasted in failure. Screw being the best lawn mower in the neighborhood, that's for those hustling chumps who are OK making only $25/hour!

I can see non-productocracy businesses that can be started with near $0 capital, but those businesses are pointless to start.
If I were to make a physical product based business like a backpack that is a productocracy
Wuh? It's clear you don't even know what a productocracy is.

Not bothering any further.
 

ChrisV

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ChrisV

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Oh wait.. he thinks that a productocracy means you developed a physical revolutionary product

lmfao

ummmmm actually his entire post kinda makes sense now

dude a productocracy is when your product is so high quality people love it and recommend it

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4iUdRu8sw

yea i mean in that case your initial post makes sense.. it does take a decent amount of money to develop
 
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MoreValue

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Being an average or low income person is a privilege because hard times make strong men.
Your life is only limited by the laws of physics. That level of success is not guaranteed to anyone, rich or poor, though the rich have higher access to resources.

On the flip side, the rich tend not to have the same drive as the poor. I have a wealthy friend who could start a business at any moment, probably without even working in it, and he doesn't because he doesn't have to. The less choices you have in life, the more appealing the prospect of freedom becomes.
Earned privileges, yes. You work hard, you work smart . . . you deserve privilege.

Those who don't like it? Losers. Screw them.
When I made this post, I was looking objectively at capital/resources. Other things like strong mentality, I assumed it as default in both the rich and poor.

We all get dealt different hands in life bud, do what you gotta do!

Low income or high income just go for it.
Yeah, in my OP I said I was still going to work regardless. Just wanted other opinions and views.

Stop victimizing yourself
Ok, maybe I was victimizing myself a bit. Maybe because my situation is currently limited my capital and literally nothing else. I am in the stage of developing my offer (physical product), and the only thing stopping me is capital for tools and materials.

Entrepreneurship is not a privilege, its human nature. A lot of people strive for something bigger in their lives and contribute to society in ways you don't even realize is entrepreneurship.

The scope of owning your own business is vast and it's found in every single human civilization you can think of. However, there are some limitations to how you can scale depending on where you are. For example, you can't be as successful as Jeff Bezos in China. Speaking of China which is considered a communist country in the modern world, go to the streets of any major city there and you'll find business owners and innovators swarming the streets trying to sell or entertain in exchange of money.

Reality is, entrepreneurship is everywhere. It is scaling a business that's different where you go in the different parts of the world due to government control and economics. But to categorize it as a privilege or not is a weird way of wording it.

The fact is, you're already on this forum and you write good English and it might even be native to you. Which means you probably have access to free internet and capital. Which means you're already 'privileged' compared to the rest of the world and is probably in the top 1% of the world's population.

To keep things in perspective, my salary from my full-time job is in the ballpark of 50k a year. That puts me in the top .30% in the world.
I don't think entrepreneurship is human nature. Consumerism is human nature. Anyone that runs a business knows that customers/clients just want to know "What's in it for me?"

Yes, I have internet. Although not free. I do have some capital, but that is because I had to live like crap to build that up and not go out. Which goes along with my OP saying is that, a wealthy person can start a business like me, but they didn't have to spend several years "not living" to build up capital. They could live a decent life and build a business at the same time. Obviously, very subjective. But its one or the other. If I "live" my life, I won't have money for my business. Its a trade off the wealthy don't have to make.

The "P" word. Almost as bad as the "D" word.



Um ok...

You're just realizing that starting a business when you're poor requires sacrifice???

I'm confused. Lots of average/poor users on this forum have started successful businesses... including the founder of the forum. It requires more work + some creative thinking.

Don't think you'll find much sympathy (or whatever you're looking for by posting this thread) on this forum.
When I first got started in entrepreneurship, I was blindly optimistic. I read too many "You can do it!" books or that everyone has an equal chance. So I am waking up to the fact that it ain't. I was saying that those that have capital just need sacrifice less. They don't need to ramen every night for this business to work. But a poor, person needs to live like crap first.

I made this post asking if people agreed or disagreed.

@MoreValue consider reading The Power of Broke.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WPQHK14/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

Having less money forces an entrepreneur to be more creative, more effective, more efficient, and more focused.
I will try to take a look. Thanks for recommendation.

I’m afraid for you for when @MJ DeMarco finds this thread.

You’re being a victim.

I hate the word ‘privilege’.. not to be harsh but, it’s really just liberal, left wing crybabying

Dude, half of these people started businesses while working the night shift at Denny’s

I mean yes, statistically successful entrepreneurs are more likely to have come from wealth and have a good education, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

I mean yea if you’re trying to start a business that needs a lot of startup capita
l sure.. but there are tons of people on here that started books, apps, websites.. stuff that didn’t cost a lot to start.

I think this stems from the ‘takes money to make money’ myth
Yeah, I gotta get over it. I just keep thinking that a person with wealth can LIVE and BUILD a business at the same time. Unfortunately for us muggles, its one or the other...

Unfortunately my product has high start up costs, but it is where I can provide the most value relative to the marketplace.

Didn’t mean to come off as harsh in my reply, but yea I get the impression you’re talking about your specific biz, which we don’t have the details of.

I just don’t want you to get caught up in the ‘its too hard’ or ‘its not fair’ type thinking. It will kill you before you even start. I promise you that. Get creative. Bootstrap if you have to. Talk to Venture Capitalists or Angel Investors. Most Investors won’t invest until you have proof/sales but if you have a really good idea there are VC firms that will believe in you. Just gotta get the right ones. Crowdfunding (kickstarter) imo is changing the face of business. They love productocracies. So many great products are being launched on kickstarter. There’s even equity crowdfunding where people who invest now own part of your business.

Don’t worry about why something can’t be done. Think about ways it can be done. Google it if you have to. Just the people who succeed are the ones who figure out how to get around the mountain rather than saying ‘we can’t’
All good brotha.

And bro, no one is saying this sh*t is easy. It’s not.

It requires sacrifice, ripping your hair out, crying wives, parents who give up on you, friends who think you’re a delusional moron with your head in the clouds. If it were easy than every caveman and gecko would do it. That being said, we argue that it's still better than the alternative. So you suck it up, drive your 12 year old car for a bit, water the fruit bearing tree then you’ll have something you can eat from your whole life. But do the rich have an advantage? Sure. So what do you do? Join them! Then the next business you start you’ll be in the same position as them. Everyone’s gotta start somewhere.
Thanks bro

Entrepreneurship is a choice and not a privilege.
Remember that it is the choices and not the produtocracy or a certain type of startup that makes you free.
I was speaking in terms of capital/resources. I think that anyone can have the intention/desire to start a business, but it may or may not be executable due to lack of resources.

Purpose of your post?
Wondering if people Agreed or Disagree and to get discussion of what other entrepreneurs thought.

Hustle is free. If you are in good health, then you are OMG, guess what, privileged! If you have your mind in good working order, then you are privileged.

If you are only focusing on R & D for a productocracy, then you are doomed to fail. There are productocracies that don't require R & D, and there are a lot of businesses that aren't productracies. All of the following resources are free:

-The library
-Craigslist for flipping and generating cash
-Facebook Marketplace for flipping and generating cash
-Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook are free and you can borrow Gary Vee's book "Crushing It" from the library for free to learn how to use them.
-YouTube
-This forum

Things that are cheap:

A notebook
A pen

Use your notebook and pen and the above free resources and after reading and generating enough bad ideas, you will likely come up with some good ones.
Focusing on R&D doomed to fail? R&D is developing the compelling offer relative to the marketplace. In my case it is a physical product. Its very important. Productocracies that don't require R&D, high risk of it being a me too. Fighting for pennies type deal.

Is spelling a “priviledge”?
Oh, a grammer nazi.

Comfort is a threat and a big potential hinderance to entrepreneurship.
I agree, but I was just thinking in terms of capital at the time this post was made, not mentality pros and cons.

This is because you aren't smart enough yet. Don't confuse being ignorant or uninformed with impossible. That's like saying it's impossible to get to the moon because you don't know how to build a rocket.
In my case, the "how-to of building something", aka the technicalities are not a problem at all for me. There are a lot of things I need to work on for my physical product, but I know it is very possible.

You have to realize your limitations and REALIZE that these are YOUR limitations, not everyone elses. Guess what R&D is free, thinking.
I have been doing the R&D thinking. But once you have the plan to build the product, you need money for all this:

In House: All tools, equipments, books (knowledge), materials for each prototype iteration.
Outsource: Pay for mold/tooling, prototype iterations, MOQ sample order.

I know knowledge is freely available online, but depending on what you are doing. There can be not much information at all. Sometimes books are a necessary purchase.

What I am trying to say is R&D, ain't cheap and its not because I don't know what I'm doing.

What about TOM shoes, aren't they a me too business? They just sell regular shoes. Did they have to do R&D?
They are a me too product. But like all me too products aka unremarkable products, they need marketing to compensate for unremarkable product. Its either one way or the other.

Unremarkable or Bad Product requires marketing to compensate.
Remarkable or Good Product does not require as much marketing.

I saw read their story, looks like they got a lot of publicity early on and didn't have to pay for the marketing. They also had an unremarkable product, so must be cheap to produce. Looks like they won on both fronts of capital (doesn't happen to many). Their power is in their story. If that story, didn't end up getting the big initial publicity upfront, they would be paying up the arse like any other business for publicity like that.

I will give you a product that I'm launching in to that is 100% a me too businesses. Fishing lures. Yes, I'm selling regular f*king fishing lures. Just plunging into Amazon with a straight up private label lure. But guess what... I know of one that's missing in the market and not on Amazon. You want to know why? Because I go fishing and this one simple problem frustrates me so much AND I can't find its solution anywhere.
If you get in first to a product not readily available, they you can profit initially. But since you said its a me too product, I am assuming any dude can Alibaba it in a second and no R&D is done either. So a template Alibaba product import. Once a couple of dudes import that, then margins will shrink so fast, then you gotta start paying PPC or do it the right way R&D a product that no one can Alibaba for centuries.

I have 2 more product lines that do require R&D, if you see my thread one is costing me $600 for samples, that's not much R&D. The next one will be way cheaper for a sample. Again, I'm pretty confident at these niches because they are unserved and not served very well. How did I come across these niches? Both are from doing fun stuff outdoors and realizing that something I needed was missing.

I'll even give you one more because I don't have time for this one. Make a biking backpack that can conceal a handgun that is accessible without having to stop the bike. Please? Then take my money and the money of hundreds of other mountain bikers.

So many ideas... not enough time.
Funny, you mention that backpack idea. My backpack productocracy was based on high functionality although not for guns. But the cost to implement is very high, not close to $600 at all. Sigh...it just seems that all my best ideas cost an arm and leg. Another reason, I made this thread, because capital is my largest barrier.

And lol, why would someone need to pull outa gun while riding a bike, unless they a cop. Obviously I'm not the target market.

To beat a dead horse... I don't remember what thread I posted my early tax returns in, but they basically said my AGI was like $30k, $18k and $30k in the years that I started my business. I don't believe MJ was rolling in dough when he started his business. Maybe have @SteveO come reply about how he worked 18 hour days, coming back from bankruptcy to making a few million. Your conclusion again, comes down to the fact that you just don't have the knowledge yet. Instead of trying again, you base your failures on your situation.
I am trying again, but I haven't lived at all because of entrepreneurship. I've just been sacrifiing too long and my whole life is on put. Those with capital can run a business and live at the same time.

The fact of the matter is that poor people have no business starting a business. That's lottery mentality. If you're worried about having enough to eat and pay rent, you should not be worrying about business, you should be working for someone else, and working on increasing your labour value and cash reserves.
I agree this. I know most will disagree. I feel like most people don't have the perspective of the really poor. All they are thinking about is necessities because they so poor. I know its very slowlane, but they gotta build up some cash reserve, so they can at least breath.

Big companies know this as well. Pay employees their food, water, gas, laundry, accommodation. So they don't have to worry about anything besides...you guessed it working more.

I don't agree with the way you've defined it as a privilege. Because poor people can succeed just as much as rich in entrepreneurship. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The poor person will have to become more resourceful to become successful. And that skill will help them stay successful. The rich person will tend to fall back in their money or investments when times get hard because they didn't have to develop this skill.

---
If we just talk about the title. I do think it's a privilege. But not because only some people are lucky enough to do it. But because we are lucky enough to be born into societies where we can be entrepreneurs. And I'm definitely grateful for that.
Thanks for your opinion and time.

I would argue having a safety net or being born into wealth can be a disadvantage. For a lot of people it's only when their back is against the wall that's when they truly put in the effort. Why are there so many dysfunctional rich kids it seems?

But anyways, we're living in the easiest time in history to make money so really, there's almost no excuse to be poor.
I don't want to keep repeating myself, but I was assuming that the rich and poor person both had the right mentality. Only was speaking in terms of capital in the post.

I find that to be a bad thing that "it is the easiest time in history to make money." Lower barriers to do things, makes things harder for entrepreneurship.

Entrepreneurship is a right - atleast in western civilization. The right and freedom to determine your destiny is at the heart of the founding of Western civilization and is what makes our culture so great.

Where you start has it's advantages/disadvantages. Had friends in highschool who drove Range Rovers paid for by their parents, while I had to work 5 hours a night to pay for my vehicle and insurance. I thought it was unfair at the time. But 10 years later, they are working 9-5 corporate jobs and still don't understand personal responsibility.
If it were solely about the privilege of starting with millions then why do lottery winners usually end up as big losers?
They do not have the financial mentality. I was more or so comparing people that already had producer mentality. Not typical consumers.

I know their are still more responses, maybe I will get to them.
 

biophase

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I have been doing the R&D thinking. But once you have the plan to build the product, you need money for all this:

In House: All tools, equipments, books (knowledge), materials for each prototype iteration.
Outsource: Pay for mold/tooling, prototype iterations, MOQ sample order.

I know knowledge is freely available online, but depending on what you are doing. There can be not much information at all. Sometimes books are a necessary purchase.

What I am trying to say is R&D, ain't cheap and its not because I don't know what I'm doing.
I think you are looking at it wrong. You say R&D is too expensive for your product and that's true. But let's say I wanted to start a new car company, I can't afford to R&D a new car line. But I'm not thinking I can't do it because entrepreneurship is for rich people. Yes R&D is too expensive for me.

Who's fault is it that I don't have enough money to do start a car company?
 

Siberia

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When I made this post, I was looking objectively at capital/resources. Other things like strong mentality, I assumed it as default in both the rich and poor




Yeah, in my OP I said I was still going to work regardless. Just wanted other opinions and views.



Ok, maybe I was victimizing myself a bit. Maybe because my situation is currently limited my capital and literally nothing else. I am in the stage of developing my offer (physical product), and the only thing stopping me is capital for tools and materials.



I don't think entrepreneurship is human nature. Consumerism is human nature. Anyone that runs a business knows that customers/clients just want to know "What's in it for me?"

Yes, I have internet. Although not free. I do have some capital, but that is because I had to live like crap to build that up and not go out. Which goes along with my OP saying is that, a wealthy person can start a business like me, but they didn't have to spend several years "not living" to build up capital. They could live a decent life and build a business at the same time. Obviously, very subjective. But its one or the other. If I "live" my life, I won't have money for my business. Its a trade off the wealthy don't have to make.



When I first got started in entrepreneurship, I was blindly optimistic. I read too many "You can do it!" books or that everyone has an equal chance. So I am waking up to the fact that it ain't. I was saying that those that have capital just need sacrifice less. They don't need to ramen every night for this business to work. But a poor, person needs to live like crap first.

I made this post asking if people agreed or disagreed.



I will try to take a look. Thanks for recommendation.



Yeah, I gotta get over it. I just keep thinking that a person with wealth can LIVE and BUILD a business at the same time. Unfortunately for us muggles, its one or the other...

Unfortunately my product has high start up costs, but it is where I can provide the most value relative to the marketplace.



All good brotha.



Thanks bro



I was speaking in terms of capital/resources. I think that anyone can have the intention/desire to start a business, but it may or may not be executable due to lack of resources.



Wondering if people Agreed or Disagree and to get discussion of what other entrepreneurs thought.



Focusing on R&D doomed to fail? R&D is developing the compelling offer relative to the marketplace. In my case it is a physical product. Its very important. Productocracies that don't require R&D, high risk of it being a me too. Fighting for pennies type deal.



Oh, a grammer nazi.



I agree, but I was just thinking in terms of capital at the time this post was made, not mentality pros and cons.



In my case, the "how-to of building something", aka the technicalities are not a problem at all for me. There are a lot of things I need to work on for my physical product, but I know it is very possible.



I have been doing the R&D thinking. But once you have the plan to build the product, you need money for all this:

In House: All tools, equipments, books (knowledge), materials for each prototype iteration.
Outsource: Pay for mold/tooling, prototype iterations, MOQ sample order.

I know knowledge is freely available online, but depending on what you are doing. There can be not much information at all. Sometimes books are a necessary purchase.

What I am trying to say is R&D, ain't cheap and its not because I don't know what I'm doing.



They are a me too product. But like all me too products aka unremarkable products, they need marketing to compensate for unremarkable product. Its either one way or the other.

Unremarkable or Bad Product requires marketing to compensate.
Remarkable or Good Product does not require as much marketing.

I saw read their story, looks like they got a lot of publicity early on and didn't have to pay for the marketing. They also had an unremarkable product, so must be cheap to produce. Looks like they won on both fronts of capital (doesn't happen to many). Their power is in their story. If that story, didn't end up getting the big initial publicity upfront, they would be paying up the arse like any other business for publicity like that.



If you get in first to a product not readily available, they you can profit initially. But since you said its a me too product, I am assuming any dude can Alibaba it in a second and no R&D is done either. So a template Alibaba product import. Once a couple of dudes import that, then margins will shrink so fast, then you gotta start paying PPC or do it the right way R&D a product that no one can Alibaba for centuries.



Funny, you mention that backpack idea. My backpack productocracy was based on high functionality although not for guns. But the cost to implement is very high, not close to $600 at all. Sigh...it just seems that all my best ideas cost an arm and leg. Another reason, I made this thread, because capital is my largest barrier.

And lol, why would someone need to pull outa gun while riding a bike, unless they a cop. Obviously I'm not the target market.



I am trying again, but I haven't lived at all because of entrepreneurship. I've just been sacrifiing too long and my whole life is on put. Those with capital can run a business and live at the same time.



I agree this. I know most will disagree. I feel like most people don't have the perspective of the really poor. All they are thinking about is necessities because they so poor. I know its very slowlane, but they gotta build up some cash reserve, so they can at least breath.

Big companies know this as well. Pay employees their food, water, gas, laundry, accommodation. So they don't have to worry about anything besides...you guessed it working more.



Thanks for your opinion and time.



I don't want to keep repeating myself, but I was assuming that the rich and poor person both had the right mentality. Only was speaking in terms of capital in the post.

I find that to be a bad thing that "it is the easiest time in history to make money." Lower barriers to do things, makes things harder for entrepreneurship.





They do not have the financial mentality. I was more or so comparing people that

already had producer mentality. Not typical consumers.

I know their are still more responses, maybe I will get to them.




I am sorry to have intervened in this useless thread and to receive the relevant notifications of further interventions.
Here you should be able to exit and no longer receive the related alerts.
Friend continues your useless brain masturbation alone in the landfill !!!
 

splok

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Really? No disrespect MJ, but you do need decent amount of money to start a productocracy. Even something as low cost as programming, will need capital to get market feedback with ads at least. I am making the assumption that most people have internet, smartphone, and laptop. I can see non-productocracy businesses that can be started with near $0 capital, but those businesses are pointless to start.
You (well, someone) can sit down with that laptop (or a phone or even a public library computer if you're really starting from zero) and write a piece of software that people will be happy, even eager, to pay you for because there isn't anything else that really solves their specific problem. That's a productocracy, and you can do that for $0. It will take time and effort of course, maybe a LOT of time and effort, but it doesn't have to take money.
 

Kak

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I agree, but I was just thinking in terms of capital at the time this post was made, not mentality pros and cons
Very very rarely do folks who start 9-10 figure businesses use their own money. Value and competence attract capital.

I think you're crossing back over in to the "small business" side where everything is self funded and these people are lucky to make the same amount of money as a decent job. Most of these small businesses are 3x the work, 10x the risk and they rarely end up rich or privileged. The rich already think bigger than that.

Basically, I'm saying if you aren't doing something, at least in the beginning, that simply REQUIRES more than you and your own finances, you probably could be thinking a lot bigger.
 

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jpanarra

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I don't think entrepreneurship is human nature. Consumerism is human nature. Anyone that runs a business knows that customers/clients just want to know "What's in it for me?"

Yes, I have internet. Although not free. I do have some capital, but that is because I had to live like crap to build that up and not go out. Which goes along with my OP saying is that, a wealthy person can start a business like me, but they didn't have to spend several years "not living" to build up capital. They could live a decent life and build a business at the same time. Obviously, very subjective. But its one or the other. If I "live" my life, I won't have money for my business. Its a trade off the wealthy don't have to make.

You cannot consume if you don't have someone selling it... So your point here is controversial. Kinda like the chicken and the egg argument... but in this case, its much more apparent because you cannot have a trade without someone offering something (the entrepreneur) .

As for the rest of it... You're not the only one that has been dealt a bad hand, but at this point it feels like you're copping out, enjoy your excuses and have a good life. I wish you the best of luck.
 
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I think you are looking at it wrong. You say R&D is too expensive for your product and that's true. But let's say I wanted to start a new car company, I can't afford to R&D a new car line. But I'm not thinking I can't do it because entrepreneurship is for rich people. Yes R&D is too expensive for me.

Who's fault is it that I don't have enough money to do start a car company?
Ok..I'm responding to you because you are giving valid discussion. Well was slowlane for majority of the time, thats why I didn't have money. Then failed multiple times and lost a lot of money. Pretty much running my business paycheck to paycheck at the time. That's why I don't have money. In the beginning it wasn't my fault that I was scripted. But after I woke up, now its all my fault for trying non-productocracy type businesses.

I know mentality is a big part of it, but that doesn't mean you disregard the numbers. If both a wealthy person an a poor person both have the entrepreneur mindset. The wealthy can afford to start immediately and fail more times. Failure isn't free. There is a monetary cost like I have experienced. Like right now, I can't do much with my venture until I build up capital again. A wealthy person can afford to keep trying non-stop. I can keep trying, but I will have to keep building up funds again from slowlane for another business venture.

You said your cost before was $600 for samples? $600 isn't that much. But that is assuming it works. If not, they you are constantly going to have to spend $600 for each new venture.
 

biophase

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If both a wealthy person an a poor person both have the entrepreneur mindset. The wealthy can afford to start immediately and fail more times. Failure isn't free. There is a monetary cost like I have experienced.

Like right now, I can't do much with my venture until I build up capital again. A wealthy person can afford to keep trying non-stop. I can keep trying, but I will have to keep building up funds again from slowlane for another business venture.

You said your cost before was $600 for samples? $600 isn't that much. But that is assuming it works. If not, they you are constantly going to have to spend $600 for each new venture.
Yes what you say is correct, but how did the wealthy person get to be able to spend $600 on a sample. If this was 2007 and my first business, it would be hard for me to spend $600 on a sample. The fact that I can do it easily in 2018 and it was hard in 2007 has nothing to do with privilege.

Being wealthy doesn't help you at all without knowledge. The wealthy can also fail bigger and fail more. That's why you see people on Shark Tank that put in $500,000 into a losing venture. Was entrepreneurship easier for them since they had more money? No. In fact, bootstrap often leads to innovation vs. just throwing money at the problem.

I still think that you are totally wrong on your mindset here. If someone gave you $5,000 to get whatever you are thinking of off the ground. You have no better chance of success than if you waited 2 years and saved $5,000 yourself.
 

chendawg

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I find that to be a bad thing that "it is the easiest time in history to make money." Lower barriers to do things, makes things harder for entrepreneurship.
I disagree. It still takes effort. Take health and fitness for example. We have way more science and tech such as nutritional info and advance machines than say, 100 years ago. Yet more people are becoming fatter and fatter.

The elite fitness gurus, however, will get better and better because they have much more tools to push their bodies to the limit. That's who it's helping, not the masses. People in general are undisciplined and aren't willing to put in the work, even if you tell them exactly what to do.

As for business in general, we now have technology to leverage our efforts.
 

Longinus

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This is typical slowlane bias about "the rich". You think if you throw a lot of money into a project, it will work out no matter what. That's BS, it takes more than that.

I would even say it's better to start with failures. People who were successful from the start, usually think they possess "the golden touch", starting projects that fulfill their needs instead of people's and losing big time.
 

chendawg

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I still think that you are totally wrong on your mindset here. If someone gave you $5,000 to get whatever you are thinking of off the ground. You have no better chance of success than if you waited 2 years and saved $5,000 yourself.
In general for most businesses, this is true. The only caveat is businesses where a network effect is absolutely essential, such as Uber or FB. I'm really not too sure how much capital is actually needed to launch those ventures, but I'd imagine it's a lot of money, money that 99% of the population doesn't have to put towards a venture. Having access to a lot of capital at once is essential towards making those ventures successful.

However, ventures like that attract outside investments easily soooooo........
 

MJ DeMarco

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I saw read their story, looks like they got a lot of publicity early on and didn't have to pay for the marketing. They also had an unremarkable product, so must be cheap to produce. Looks like they won on both fronts of capital (doesn't happen to many). Their power is in their story. If that story, didn't end up getting the big initial publicity upfront, they would be paying up the arse like any other business for publicity like that.
TLDR for everyone else: Tom's, the huge shoe company "got lucky".

I am trying again, but I haven't lived at all because of entrepreneurship.
I've just been sacrifiing too long and my whole life is on put.
In other words, your friends all have nice cushy jobs and are consuming to the hilt with their nice cars and fancy condos.

You feel left out.

If this is your mentality about entrepreneurship and how you "live" during the process, you should just update the resume and forget about it.

enjoy your excuses and have a good life
Pretty much.

but that doesn't mean you disregard the numbers. If both a wealthy person an a poor person both have the entrepreneur mindset. The wealthy can afford to start immediately and fail more times. Failure isn't free. There is a monetary cost like I have experienced. Like right now, I can't do much with my venture until I build up capital again. A wealthy person can afford to keep trying non-stop. I can keep trying, but I will have to keep building up funds again from slowlane for another business venture.
Of course a wealthy person has more OPTIONS, more SPINS, better probabilities, and MORE to gamble.

That's F*cking life.

I can't believe we're talking about this and need to explain it to someone, but I guess that's the product of today's "rich people are evil" and "privileged" educational indoctrination camps that turns everyone into a victim who isn't the right gender, skin color, or social class.

It's clear as a beginner with ZERO WINS and HUNDREDS OF EXCUSES, you're focusing on the wrong types of businesses.

I can think of dozens of great businesses I would start if I was back at square 1... having a job, having debt, low to zero capital, and nothing but a dream to be an entrepreneur.

And no, I wouldn't be plotting how to start the next uBer or airBnb. I'd be plotting on how to score some small wins while growing my skills.

While a "productocracy" would be on my mind as a long-game construct, my first objective would be purely building skills and building capital. If that happened in a "me too" business, I wouldn't care because "me too" businesses still can grab market share through other executional advantages. (Better service, better branding, better marketing, better story, etc.)

This is typical slowlane bias about "the rich". You think if you throw a lot of money into a project, it will work out no matter what. That's BS, it takes more than that.
You mean the OP wants to jump in the pool and become Michael Phelps in 1 week?

IOW, he doesn't see the value in the process, the value of starting from nothing with perhaps, a "me too" product that builds capital. Nope, his view of a "productocracy" is too spend billions in R&D and then compete against Apple's iPhoneX.

He fails to see that you can own a pool cleaning business (pure human capital) can still have the the makings of a productocracy -- not an easy road, certainly not, but certainly not impossible.

This entire thread is a classic example of how you think internally, destroys how you act externally. When you got it wrong on the INSIDE, you most definitely will be wrong on the OUTSIDE.

Good luck.
 

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