A Conversation about death...

[Timmy C]

Being optimistic doesn't mean you have to constantly research cancer or dementia cures. When it happens everyone will know. You can still live your life like normal.

It isn't uncommon for people to refer to mind uploading as "creepy" due in large part to mass media and how it portrays futuristic ideas negatively. There are a lot of things people of the past would have called creepy that we do every day now - for instance, typing messages to your mom on a tiny computer from the toilet.

Regarding the data not being "you" - what is "you"?

When you copy a file from your computer to a thumb drive, it is essentially the same file. This is a major simplification. The mind is much more complex than a computer file, but with advanced technology, the concept is somewhat similar. The file is still the file, and the file can be in multiple places at once. Personally, I haven't found any reason to believe the human mind can't work similarly with the proper technology.

Yeh your right, i know I wouldn't have to look everyday. But I seem to obsess over things i always have.

Hope your right lex.

God dam you've got me looking at this stuff again haha.

 

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[Timmy C]

It's funny how as humans even though we all come from many different places and different traditions, we all have a common fear which is death. It's because we all share a common thing which is life.

I've read many interesting thoughts in this thread, and therefore I'd like to share what I think of death as a Muslim in verses from the Quran. Please don't think I'm preaching here because I'm not and I have no purpose in doing so but I'd like to quote the verses because who can explain it better than the source itself.

• (It is He) Who created death and life that He may try you- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, (67:2)

• And the stupor of death will come in truth; that is what you were trying to escape. (Surah Qaf 50:19)

• O soul that are at rest! Return to your Lord, well-pleased (with him), well-pleasing (Him), So enter among My servants, And enter into My garden. (89:27-30)

• Every human being is bound to taste death: but only on the Day of Resurrection will you be requited in full [for whatever you have done] - whereupon he that shall be drawn away from the fire and brought into paradise will indeed have gained a triumph: for the life of this world is nothing but an enjoyment of self-delusion. - 3:185

• And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees [of rank] that He may try you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful.

• “What! Did you think that We had created you without purpose, and that you would not be brought back to Us? Exalted be Allah, the True King….” (23:115-116)

• “They say, ‘There is nothing but our present life; we die, and we live, and nothing but time destroys us.’ Of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture. And when Our revelations are recited to them, their only argument is that they say, ‘Bring us our father, if you speak truly.’” (45:24-25)

• And says man: What! when I am dead shall I truly be brought forth alive? Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing? (19:66-67)

• And He it is Who originates the creation, then reproduces it, and it is easy to Him… (30:27)

And there are many more verses concerning that in the Quran.

I would like to answer the question of how will you have motivation after reading all those verses about death however that in fact it is the source of motivation for me - I feel like I have very limited time to exceed in giving the most value to humans ever in every aspect and thus in this world and the hereafter I shall reap the benefits of my efforts....but then again I start thinking sometimes that I haven't done much in this life - I mean honestly what can you do in just 60/70/80 years - that's if you actually make it? if you compare your living years to the world, you can barely do much...
It's well-known amongst Islamic scholars from early stages that your time is the most important thing you have...that's why they would never be wasting anytime usually and they would think about every second as the most important thing in their lives because they only have a limited amount of it in this world....

• Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

Sorry for long post, but I wanted to share my belief on this matter because it's such an important topic for every human being

Anything religion I just roll my eyes to be honest, it's no more real than the tooth fairy and far more destructive.

That's the last I'll say on that, back on topic.

Edited.

Not entirely destructive but I just think it's a bit silly and a coping mechanism.

 

[Lex DeVille]

It's funny how as humans even though we all come from many different places and different traditions, we all have a common fear which is death. It's because we all share a common thing which is life.

I've read many interesting thoughts in this thread, and therefore I'd like to share what I think of death as a Muslim in verses from the Quran. Please don't think I'm preaching here because I'm not and I have no purpose in doing so but I'd like to quote the verses because who can explain it better than the source itself.

• (It is He) Who created death and life that He may try you- which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving, (67:2)

• And the stupor of death will come in truth; that is what you were trying to escape. (Surah Qaf 50:19)

• O soul that are at rest! Return to your Lord, well-pleased (with him), well-pleasing (Him), So enter among My servants, And enter into My garden. (89:27-30)

• Every human being is bound to taste death: but only on the Day of Resurrection will you be requited in full [for whatever you have done] - whereupon he that shall be drawn away from the fire and brought into paradise will indeed have gained a triumph: for the life of this world is nothing but an enjoyment of self-delusion. - 3:185

• And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees [of rank] that He may try you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful.

• “What! Did you think that We had created you without purpose, and that you would not be brought back to Us? Exalted be Allah, the True King….” (23:115-116)

• “They say, ‘There is nothing but our present life; we die, and we live, and nothing but time destroys us.’ Of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture. And when Our revelations are recited to them, their only argument is that they say, ‘Bring us our father, if you speak truly.’” (45:24-25)

• And says man: What! when I am dead shall I truly be brought forth alive? Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing? (19:66-67)

• And He it is Who originates the creation, then reproduces it, and it is easy to Him… (30:27)

And there are many more verses concerning that in the Quran.

I would like to answer the question of how will you have motivation after reading all those verses about death however that in fact it is the source of motivation for me - I feel like I have very limited time to exceed in giving the most value to humans ever in every aspect and thus in this world and the hereafter I shall reap the benefits of my efforts....but then again I start thinking sometimes that I haven't done much in this life - I mean honestly what can you do in just 60/70/80 years - that's if you actually make it? if you compare your living years to the world, you can barely do much...
It's well-known amongst Islamic scholars from early stages that your time is the most important thing you have...that's why they would never be wasting anytime usually and they would think about every second as the most important thing in their lives because they only have a limited amount of it in this world....

• Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

Sorry for long post, but I wanted to share my belief on this matter because it's such an important topic for every human being,

This entire thread is about having a choice about life and death and about how most people will never have a choice because rather than considering an alternate possibility, they only accept their own beliefs as fact without questioning if that position might not be factful.

we all have a common fear which is death. It's because we all share a common thing which is life.

We do not all have a common fear which is death. This is a vague generalization that can't be proven, and can easily be disputed. Vague generalizations are common among "believers" and this isn't limited to the Muslim religion.

Please don't think I'm preaching here because I'm not and I have no purpose in doing so but I'd like to quote the verses because who can explain it better than the source itself.

Quotes coming from "the source" don't add weight to the position unless "the source" is agreed upon as a credible authority. In this case "the source" represents your version of your god which is not a credible authority to others of alternate religious beliefs. So indeed, you are preaching.

 

[100ToOne]

This entire thread is about having a choice about life and death and about how most people will never have a choice because rather than considering an alternate possibility, they only accept their own beliefs as fact without questioning if that position might not be factful.



We do not all have a common fear which is death. This is a vague generalization that can't be proven, and can easily be disputed. Vague generalizations are common among "believers" and this isn't limited to the Muslim religion.



Quotes coming from "the source" don't add weight to the position unless "the source" is agreed upon as a credible authority. In this case "the source" represents your version of your god which is not a credible authority to others of alternate religious beliefs. So indeed, you are preaching.

I may have misunderstood this thread. I thought people in this thread were discussing the meaning of death and how we can't overcome it even though we might extend life but eventually die at the end...it seems people are talking about something different lol..

As for fear of death, I didn't mean fear of death per say, because many Muslims are definitely not afraid of death...but what I meant to say the topics related to death..I mean topics such as: "what about my family, what's after death, what's the meaning of this life if I can just fall and die right now etc." that's what I meant.

As for preaching, again, I meant I'm not here to convert anybody or force beliefs on anybody or "win your soul". I meant I wanted to share what my beliefs are from where I take them - I didn't mean the source you have to agree that is authentic - I meant where I personally take it from that's all...
So I didn't feel like preaching since I didn't want any gain from this except so everyone can know what different parts of the world think....

Anything religion I just roll my eyes to be honest, it's no more real than the tooth fairy and far more destructive.

That's the last I'll say on that, back on topic.

Edited.

Not entirely destructive but I just think it's a bit silly and a coping mechanism.

Many people share your thoughts on that.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

I may have misunderstood this thread. I thought people in this thread were discussing the meaning of death and how we can't overcome it even though we might extend life but eventually die at the end...it seems people are talking about something different lol..

In a sense, that is the discussion, minus the part about "we can't overcome it." At least some portion of the population has reason to believe we can overcome it or they wouldn't be working toward that purpose. We can definitely extend life. The harder questions to answer are "for how long and by what means?"

And then there's the other question...if the option to live indefinitely becomes available, how can you really have a choice in the matter when current beliefs stop you from considering why continuing to live indefinitely might not be as bad as society currently thinks.

 

[100ToOne]

In a sense, that is the discussion, minus the part about "we can't overcome it." At least some portion of the population has reason to believe we can overcome it or they wouldn't be working toward that purpose. We can definitely extend life. The harder questions to answer are "for how long and by what means?"

And then there's the other question...if the option to live indefinitely becomes available, how can you really have a choice in the matter when current beliefs stop you from considering why continuing to live indefinitely might not be as bad as society currently thinks.

Well isn't that also a belief based on assumption?
I mean I will be honest, I can't prove that you are going to die some day. Nor can you prove that you won't die some day either. I mean even if we as a human race reach to a level where we can extend our lives by a million years, how do you know in a million years and one day you won't die?

The facts are for the years that have passed, we always had a day we lived and a day we died, we don't have any evidence that anyone is still alive from let's say a thousand years ago. So my answer to your last question is how will my belief stop me from believing in it when you can't prove it?

 

[Veloce Grey]

Honestly, if I don't die at some point I'm going to be so annoyed I'll probably drive my car off a cliff.

And if anyone uploads me to a cloud they do so at their own bloody risk as I'll make that crazed Amazon robot of a few weeks back look like a pacifist.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Well isn't that also a belief based on assumption?
I mean I will be honest, I can't prove that you are going to die some day. Nor can you prove that you won't die some day either. I mean even if we as a human race reach to a level where we can extend our lives by a million years, how do you know in a million years and one day you won't die?

The facts are for the years that have passed, we always had a day we lived and a day we died, we don't have any evidence that anyone is still alive from let's say a thousand years ago. So my answer to your last question is how will my belief stop me from believing in it when you can't prove it?

I realize they appear the same, but they are not. The belief that we can live indefinitely is a belief based on an assumption, yes. The difference between this belief and the belief that death is inevitable is that the former is based on what is possible rather than on what is not.

You cannot prove something impossible, only improbable, and there is no reason to prove what is possible because once the possible occurs, it no longer needs proving as it becomes reality. So you cannot prove that death is inevitable, and there is no reason to prove if it might not be since if we find a way to defeat death it will just be accepted as a new reality, although that doesn't mean everyone will choose to live indefinitely - only that we have the capability to do so.

We have always died in the past, this is correct. However, this is not a sound argument for why we must die in the future. Instead, it is a logical fallacy - an appeal to tradition. It doesn't matter that nobody has previously survived for thousands of years. Until CPR existed, humans were presumed dead once they stopped breathing. After CPR, it did not matter that previous humans were believed dead when they quit breathing. CPR became an accepted practice and continues to be used to this day to save and extend lives.

Your belief won't stop you from believing. If a cure for Alzheimer's becomes available, your beliefs won't make you disbelief in that cure. It will be a widely accepted cure. But if your culture or religious beliefs tell you that medicines are "bad" then those beliefs will likely hinder you from having a choice to use such medications even if you were to be diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I'm using "you" but I don't specifically mean "you" since you might not make that choice in the moment, and we wouldn't know which choice you made until you are faced with that choice.

 

[Thomas Baptiste]

MODERATOR NOTE:
The thought that it's all coming to an end for everyone is the most frustrating, sad thought in the world. Almost as sad and distressing as the realization that virtually nobody cares and everybody on the planet is an enabler.

This is probably why most people refuse to even think death. Death is uncomfortable. The event itself, and no process in the world is going to 'stop' death. We're all going to die one day. Those that accept it for what it is are going to have more fulfilling lives. I mean this is relative to everyone, but i don't really fear death like i used to before. I've been through so many life -threatening situations by now, I just literally laugh when I encounter them now. I honestly enjoy the experiences i have now, good or bad. Some people use religion and other ideals to convince themselves that they'll never die. I respect that. I was raised religious too. Personally I rather focus on the life I'm living now than the death that follows. No other living creature lives focusing on the inevitability of death.

I'm not religious but I use this alot " accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can and be wise enough to know the difference"

My point exactly.

 

[Lex DeVille]

The event itself, and no process in the world is going to 'stop' death. We're all going to die one day.

This can't be proven true. Only proven false. So it is only your opinion. Not a fact.

Those that accept it for what it is are going to have more fulfilling lives.

Again, no possible way you can prove this true. I find my life quite fulfilling and I do not accept death as a fact anymore than I accept cancer as an undefeatable disease. I also imagine it would be difficult to have a fulfilling life without the life part.

My point exactly.

My original point was that virtually everyone believes death is inevitable already, and therefore they make statements suggesting this position without challenging said position. So I guess I can make the same statement as yours...my point exactly.

 

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[Thomas Baptiste]

This can't be proven true. Only proven false. So it is only your opinion. Not a fact.


Again, no possible way you can prove this true. I find my life quite fulfilling and I do not accept death as a fact anymore than I accept cancer as an undefeatable disease. I also imagine it would be difficult to have a fulfilling life without the life part.

Opinions yes, coming from my personal experience. If you have any facts proving otherwise i'd love to see them. The basis of belief is a mixture of mindset and experience. What i stated are my belies and that's a fact.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Opinions yes, coming from my personal experience. If you have any facts proving otherwise i'd love to see them. The basis of belief is a mixture of mindset and experience. What i stated are my belies and that's a fact.

There's no reason to prove against it. We're dealing in matters of improbability and possibility. Impossibility can't be proven. Possibility can be proven when it becomes reality, but since I'm not trying to change your mind about wanting to live indefinitely, there's no reason to attempt to prove possibility in the first place.

The fact is you cannot prove defeating death impossible, only improbable. There is no need to prove defeating death is possible. If it happens then it proves itself. It may also be improbable that it will happen, but it can't be proven impossible (currently).

There is plenty of evidence to suggest defeating death and aging might happen within the next 10-100 years.

This article mentions startups working on digital immortality:
Will ‘digital resurrections’ let us bring back the dead?

This article discusses a company recently approved to use stem cells to attempt to revive the dead.
New Stem Cell Study Plans to Bring Dead People Back to Life

Here's an article that summarizes death as an illusion:
Is Death an Illusion? Evidence Suggests Death Isn’t the End

This article discusses how some cells continue to fight to survive even after death, which suggests that we don't even know when "death" has officially reached the point of no return if it even has one.
Your Cells Fight To Stay Alive — Long After Your Body Dies

 

[TheCj]

Interesting topic... We are already seeing amputees getting prosthetic/limbs that can use signals from the brain to move like the original limb. I'd think once see complete arms/legs being replaced then will be complete hips down etc.. Just keep working backwards till a full body transplant is possible..
Basically is just a matter of time before all the nerves and connections are reverse engineered etc..
So I can see life being extended via a below the neck transplant kind of thing...
Getting closer to the brain etc.. increases the complexity so time will tell...

 

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[MTF]

If you panic in the water when you wipe out on a big wave while surfing, you can drown (haven't surfed big waves yet, but was held down by a powerful wave for much longer than it was comfortable).

Oh the irony of life. Almost died when surfing today. Before I knew it, I had gotten caught in a strong current pushing me toward huge rocks. Survived without any injuries as I managed not to panic too much (I still panicked, but fortunately wasn't completely paralyzed by fear), but I've never been closer to death.

Strangely, I feel stronger and calmer for some reason now...

 

[Thomas Baptiste]

Oh the irony of life. Almost died when surfing today. Before I knew it, I had gotten caught in a strong current pushing me toward huge rocks. Survived without any injuries as I managed not to panic too much (I still panicked, but fortunately wasn't completely paralyzed by fear), but I've never been closer to death.

Strangely, I feel stronger and calmer for some reason now...

Reminds me of how I almost fell 4 stories last week while putting up atenannes on a roof for my telecommunications company. Had a laugh about it afterwards but damn my heart skipped a couple beats. The deadly calm we experienced afterwards I feel is the after-effect of adrenaline.

 

[MTF]

Wow man, that's crazy! Stay safe out there, a personal anchor system is your friend.

The deadly calm we experienced afterwards I feel is the after-effect of adrenaline.

Yeah, I believe so. Pretty strong effect.

 

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[Almantas]

Interesting topic.

I am not afraid of death. I am afraid of not living. IMO most people are so occupied making a living that they forget to simply live.

As per death, I don't believe WE are going to die. Why? I see human as a soul that is made of energy that exists forever. My belief is that our soul is part of universe, part of life and death as we know it. So, I believe WE are not going to die.

What dies? Our bodies that have a biological destruction timer inside itself and our consciousness.

I believe death and birth as we know it is like a restart. When we leave this world, our soul will jump into a different body and begin the game of life from scratch again with more lessons to learn and experiences to experience.

This is my belief and how I see death and life.

 

[The Abundant Man]

Energy/mass cannot be created nor destroyed; only transformed/transferred into something else

So even after death you're transferred/transformed into something else.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GibiNy4d4gc

 

[luniac]

diet and exercise keeps you "biologically" young for a long long time.
A lifetime of regular exercise slows down aging, study finds

Also the answer to alzheimers prevention ain't Sudoku, it's exercise.
Aerobic exercise may be key for Alzheimer's prevention

Sweating makes skin younger too, so break that full body sweat every day.
Younger Skin Through Exercise

im sure by 2100 they'll have the singularity or whatever, just gotta stay healthy long enough

 

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[Brad S]

MODERATOR NOTE:
These comments were extracted (copied) from another thread and put into a new discussion. Original discussion found here:
O/T: Health - My 600lb Life: Addiction, Enabling, More (RANT)



How you feel about this show and the people in it is how I feel about death in general and the entire population. I feel bad for these people for missing out on what little life they have, but in the end we all die (for now) and nobody seems to give a sh*t about that.

Obesity is an unfortunate problem, especially when it leads to early death. To me the bigger tragedy is death itself. Extending the lifespan won't solve the obesity problem, but it might help.

Some days I find it hard to get motivated when I think about the fact in another 50 years or so I'll be nothing more than a lingering thought (crossing my fingers for the Singularity though). My existence will extend as far as the legacy I leave behind, and the length of time it continues to be a legacy until the new society decides its not.

Columbus day in Oklahoma is now called "Indigenous People's Day." Not that it matters. Columbus ain't coming back whether we remember him or not.

I just want to have the choice to live and keep living. The thought that it's all coming to an end for everyone is the most frustrating, sad thought in the world. Almost as sad and distressing as the realization that virtually nobody cares and everybody on the planet is an enabler.

The worst part is that probably in a couple 100 of years death will have been stopped altogether.

Everything will be selected with custom genetics and aging and sickness will be no more.

We could probably reverse our own aging right now if we only knew how and had the right technology to implement it.

People are working on this.

I know some of them.

But it's a drop in the bucket compared with the amount of people that just accept death, aging and sickness as inevitable.

Our great, great, great, grandchildren will wonder how we ever could have existed at all-knowing every day our bodies are breaking down and we will be back to non existence and have no choice about it.

Talk about the greatest business opportunity that ever existed.

The people responsible for figuring out how to reverse human age and take control over all functions of the body will most likely be the first trillionaires...

 

[Fassina]

IMHO if you're under 40 you are unlikely to die of old age. If you are older, and take good care of your health that's also unlikely to happen.

We are close to figuring out life extension and many other things.

We're all technically going to die at some point though, even if we upload our consciousness into a different body. Semantics is a boring argument though.

Other than that I feel these obese people dying is sad but also not surprising. Natural selection is a thing and those that are unfit will probably not make it. You could argue that we already diminished natural selection's effects for the most part but some people can't be saved, it's our reality and we can't really argue with it.

We'll all either die to a badly programmed GAI or we're going to become immortal gods this century, we can't control it either way so just enjoy the ride and chill for now.

 

[lowtek]

Energy/mass cannot be created nor destroyed; only transformed/transferred into something else

So even after death you're transferred/transformed into something else.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GibiNy4d4gc

This is a widely misunderstood point. While mass-energy can't be destroyed, it can be rendered completely and totally useless.

So yes, your life energy is transferred to something else, but that something else is waste heat. It's irretrievably lost to the unending ravages of entropy.

That's assuming, of course, that there isn't something that transcends the material interpretation of the universe. If there's a soul, it's up for debate whether or not it would be subject to the laws of physics.

 

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[Rockstar]

“All people eventually die, but as long as someone protects what that person stood for, they won't really die.”

This make me calm for some reason. I don't belive in God or something and I don't even care.
It doesn't matter if the God exists, if life after death exists... You should always do your best.
Life is like buissnes. You don't know if you will succeed, but anyway you must give everything from yourself.

If life after death exists it's great, if not it's also okay. you will not change it so why care about it?

My attitude to life is extreme hedonism and I know that it's not the best, but i don't care

 

[Roli]

I just want to have the choice to live and keep living.

We are kindred spirits!

Any time I tell people that I hope I'm alive long enough to either be uploaded to the cloud or simply 'resleeved' I am looked at like a madman, and get many of the responses you've had on this thread.

I think we've got a good chance, although perhaps you have a slightly better chance than me, as from the way you talk about death I'm guessing you're 10-15 years younger.

I recently wrote an article about it actually. I postulated the fact that the first step to immortality will be A-mortality, in that we will live forever, barring accidents and natural disasters. Which in turn might make us super cautious...

Anyways, if I don't make it to A-mortality, I at least want to be some kind of cyborg and live to my 120s.

Hopefully we'll be sharing a glass of beer in a couple of hundred years reminiscing about this conversation.

 

[Lex DeVille]

We are kindred spirits!

Any time I tell people that I hope I'm alive long enough to either be uploaded to the cloud or simply 'resleeved' I am looked at like a madman, and get many of the responses you've had on this thread.

I think we've got a good chance, although perhaps you have a slightly better chance than me, as from the way you talk about death I'm guessing you're 10-15 years younger.

I recently wrote an article about it actually. I postulated the fact that the first step to immortality will be A-mortality, in that we will live forever, barring accidents and natural disasters. Which in turn might make us super cautious...

Anyways, if I don't make it to A-mortality, I at least want to be some kind of cyborg and live to my 120s.

Hopefully we'll be sharing a glass of beer in a couple of hundred years reminiscing about this conversation.

Hopefully I'll have better shit to talk about then.

I'm 31 in human years.

Right now we have the best chance we've ever had.

I feel you on the responses.

Though usually when I tell people I signed up for cryonics they give me the "wow, that's really interesting!" spiel to my face and save the rest for behind closed doors pillow talk.

 

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[Roli]

I'm 31 in human years.

Ha, I knew it, you have a 15 year jump start on me!

Hopefully I'll have better sh*t to talk about then.

I reckon we can talk about our latest trip to the Jovian habitats around Europa, and how goddamned beautiful Jupiter looks when you see it up that close.

I signed up for cryonics

Yeah, not so sure on the cryonics because of all the hardcore chemicals used, however it's the best we've got.

Hopefully by the time you are 80-90, there will be a much better solution...

I've seen the future, and it works!

 

[Walter Hay]

In my opinion, Heaven is a place made up by humans to help them feel better about a problem they don't know how to solve, and don't believe they can solve - basically a coping mechanism.

As a person with strong religious beliefs I agree entirely with this statement. Most Christian religions believe contrary to what their own guide book (The Bible) actually tells them on this subject.

This entire thread is about having a choice about life and death and about how most people will never have a choice because rather than considering an alternate possibility, they only accept their own beliefs as fact without questioning if that position might not be factful.

Originally a total agnostic, I had no beliefs, but as I wrote in my "Featured User" post, when I discovered a relatively small religion that was, as the philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote in “Power - A New Social Analysis” P81 as: “The best representatives of the primitive tradition (first century Christianity) are the Christxxxxxxs”, I developed beliefs that are based only upon the Bible. I have always been a skeptic, and it took me 4 years to commit to those beliefs. No "instant conversion" for me.

The outcome is that I have no fear of death, though I love life, and I do not follow the musings of philosophers, the dreaming of those who think technology is the solution to everything, the wishful thinking of those who can't bear the thought that we truly are mortal, or the preaching of those who profess to believe the Bible, but repeat the world's first lie, namely "You will not surely die." This lie generated the almost universal religious doctrine of the immortality of the soul.

I'm not wanting to debate religion because I understood the subject is taboo on the forum, but willing to answer questions.

Walter

 

[MakeItHappen]

Strangely, I feel stronger and calmer for some reason now...

I also came close to death 2 times. The last time a couple month ago.

The first time it happened out of nowhere, so I hadn't time to think about anything like "Shit I am going to die..."

The second time it was different. I had time to think..., however the only thing that I was really concerned about was not having a chance to say goodbye to my family and thinking about the sadness they will have to go through once I am gone.

I was no concerned about "stopping to exist", I wasn't concerned about all the goals I haven't reached yet and I also wasn't concerned about all the experiences I haven't had yet. All of these things however where occupying my mind quite often in my daily life before.

I often had the fear of one day being 90 years old lying on my deathbed thinking about all the "potential" I wasted and all the things I could have done/achieved.
I don't care about this anymore after this experience. The only exception is family/relationship related. I will very likely be sad about not having been the best son/husband/father/friend that I could have been, so this is still a concern.

What I learned for myself from this experience is this:
- for me death isn't something to be scared of anymore (it was before in a big way), this is kinda liberating
- goals/experiences aren't nearly as important to me anymore, I still have them but I don't let my happiness depend on them as much as I used to
- the goals that I have now are based more around my family/relationships

 

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[LuckyPup]

Growing up religious, I think this is one of it's big cons. By promising life after death, and a "once saved, always saved" doctrine.... it kind of takes the urgency out of life.

If life is "supposed to be suffering", then why try to stop suffering? It'll be better in the next life.

When I accepted to myself that there probably isn't anything more, and this is all that I have... well sh*t, that got me going. For a while, I had a "death countdown" widget for chrome that would show my number of weeks left when I opened a new tab.

People go their whole life trying not to think about death. I think about it all the time. I imagine scenarios where my wife and kids die, and how my life would change, and what I would do differently. I really like the philosophy of Stoicism which gets into this kind of thing. It lets you be at peace with how sh*tty and random life can be.

I also think about death every day and had the same Chrome widget, but it made me so anxious and depressed that I deleted it.

 

[amp0193]

I also think about death every day and had the same Chrome widget, but it made me so anxious and depressed that I deleted it.

My wife would always get a nice surprise when she opened up a new tab on my laptop. She did not appreciate it either.

Not for everyone!