Teaching People to Lose Weight as Fatty BoomBatty

[MitchC]

However, this forum does have a bias against coaching and teaching generally. These are viewed by most as 2nd class professions, especially if the said person isn’t top 1% at practicing the skill they want to teach or coach about.

This is not true

We are allergic to, and are here because we are allergic to the fake bullshit gurus out there offering advice on shit they've never done, the exact thing you are advocating for in this stupid thread

We are all here to learn from MJ and from others who have actually done it

People successfully sell coaching here

Fox successfully sold websites and made a course
Biophase did Amazon coaching after building Amazon businesses
Lex DeVille had a freelancing course

Lets take one example

I did a group Amazon coaching call years ago with Biophase

The advice he gave was the complete opposite of what I hear fake gurus teach day in and day out, still to this day

His advice didn't make as much sense on the surface and didn't sound as good, but I know that it would result in far better outcomes

This is the difference between a fake guru and someone who has done it. The fake guru repeats some bullshit that sounds good and makes sense when you hear it but doesn't actually work.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

As someome who actually does ecommerce I can spot fake ecommerce gurus from a mile away

I doubt this. I've been in internet marketing for 12+ years, and I still can't tell for certain if a lot of products / courses are scams, merely by looking at their marketing. Some that LOOK LIKE scams are actually good products. And some that DON'T look like scams are actually terrible products.

And btw, many "guru" products are actually solid. The reasons for failure are all to do with sucky students, not with the course material. If someone doesn't apply what they learn (and that's the case for 80%+ of buyers – I know, since I've sold courses), they will get no results.

We are allergic to, and are here because we are allergic to the fake bullshit gurus out there offering advice on shit they've never done, the exact thing you are advocating for in this stupid thread

But I wasn't talking about fake bullshit gurus. You're just moving the goalposts. Not everyone who didn't do it is a fake bullshit guru.

His advice didn't make as much sense on the surface and didn't sound as good, but I know that it would result in far better outcomes

Did you apply it? Or how do you "know"? Or is this just faith in your guru?

This is the difference between a fake guru and someone who has done it. The fake guru repeats some bullshit that sounds good and makes sense when you hear it but doesn't actually work.

Listen pal – I'm not talking about a fake guru. I'm talking about someone who actually learns what it takes to succeed in e-commerce without doing it themselves. They read books, they talk with e-commerce owners, they see from them what's working, what's not working, maybe they wrote copy for e-commerce and worked with the owner and learned about the biz, they see different strategies and what results they got, and so on. They study the competition, they look at what they're doing now to get traffic vs what they did in the beginning. And so on. Maybe they even pay people like biophase to learn - if they give you the same knowledge that biophase did, are they now a "fake guru" and that knowledge worth nothing?

Of course if all you do is minimum effort, watch some Hormozi videos, and then vomit the same thing, you're not going to become a real coach. You must apply yourself to PROPER, scientific means of study. Which may or may not involve getting experience directly yourself. It's really a pity that people like you don't see the value of great theoreticians.

 

[MitchC]

I doubt this. I've been in internet marketing for 12+ years, and I still can't tell for certain if a lot of products / courses are scams, merely by looking at their marketing. Some that LOOK LIKE scams are actually good products. And some that DON'T look like scams are actually terrible products.

I can tell from their free content and tips not their marketing, although I guess that’s the same thing

They say things that sound good in theory but in practice don’t work.

And then they do exactly what I said and exactly what you said and they blame the students when it doesn’t work

Did you apply it? Or how do you "know"? Or is this just faith in your guru?

This stupid a$$ response proves my entire F*cking point

How would the guru know if he never did it?

Biophase is not a guru either, he actually runs Amazon stores

I know people who run stores and people who have tried to run stores. The guys who succeeded did what biophase said, the guys who failed did exactly what every guru I see is teaching

Listen pal – I'm not talking about a fake guru. I'm talking about someone who actually learns what it takes to succeed in e-commerce without doing it themselves. They read books, they talk with e-commerce owners, they see from them what's working, what's not working, maybe they wrote copy for e-commerce and worked with the owner and learned about the biz, they see different strategies and what results they got, and so on. They study the competition, they look at what they're doing now to get traffic vs what they did in the beginning. And so on. Maybe they even pay people like biophase to learn - if they give you the same knowledge that biophase did, are they now a "fake guru" and that knowledge worth nothing?

Who’s moving the goal posts now?

Who is this magical person with access and knowledge like that

The guy who wrote copy for stores, if he somehow had access to the split test results of all his copy, I’d maybe let him coach me in copywriting, or on how to get copywriting jobs, but no he’s not going to teach me how to run a store by asking store owners what’s working and looking at their business from the outside it’s laughable and exactly what I’m saying.

It's really a pity that people like you don't see the value of great theoreticians.

Who said that?

There’s a time and a place for theory and knowledge, but teaching someone something you’ve never done is not the same thing.

Back to the weightloss.

There’s a difference between having the knowledge of calories in calories out, and the experience of what it’s like and what it actually takes to follow a diet. Time and a place for both but if you want results I know who I’d be asking advice from.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

How would the guru know if he never did it?

The same way you would know: others did it

 

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[ugudango]

If this thread was meant for losing credibility with dumb takes then you did a fantastic job

#FakeGurusAreGood

 

[Kevin88660]

I doubt this. I've been in internet marketing for 12+ years, and I still can't tell for certain if a lot of products / courses are scams, merely by looking at their marketing. Some that LOOK LIKE scams are actually good products. And some that DON'T look like scams are actually terrible products.

And btw, many "guru" products are actually solid. The reasons for failure are all to do with sucky students, not with the course material. If someone doesn't apply what they learn (and that's the case for 80%+ of buyers – I know, since I've sold courses), they will get no results.


But I wasn't talking about fake bullshit gurus. You're just moving the goalposts. Not everyone who didn't do it is a fake bullshit guru.


Did you apply it? Or how do you "know"? Or is this just faith in your guru?


Listen pal – I'm not talking about a fake guru. I'm talking about someone who actually learns what it takes to succeed in e-commerce without doing it themselves. They read books, they talk with e-commerce owners, they see from them what's working, what's not working, maybe they wrote copy for e-commerce and worked with the owner and learned about the biz, they see different strategies and what results they got, and so on. They study the competition, they look at what they're doing now to get traffic vs what they did in the beginning. And so on. Maybe they even pay people like biophase to learn - if they give you the same knowledge that biophase did, are they now a "fake guru" and that knowledge worth nothing?

Of course if all you do is minimum effort, watch some Hormozi videos, and then vomit the same thing, you're not going to become a real coach. You must apply yourself to PROPER, scientific means of study. Which may or may not involve getting experience directly yourself. It's really a pity that people like you don't see the value of great theoreticians.

It’s possible to provide valuable business advice and insight even though you have not done it.

They are called journalists in a specialized field.

These are the people who wrote books and done hundred of interviews of business owners in a particular field.

They provided the width of the topic while a hands on coach provided the depth of a very specific niche.

But its easy to spot them. They can cite a lot of case studies and reference and know the numbers at finger tip. They are a perfect complement to learning from someone in the field.

You can find a business coach “who has done it before” but the problem no one has done exactly what you intends to do or is currently doing, except your direct competitor who is probably not interested in teaching you.

Consulting a generalist who knows a bit about what you do is still better than a hands on specialist who knows nothing about what you do.

 

[Oso]

This is not true

I'm unable to verbalize how much I outright disagree.

A simple thread scroll of the last 3-6 months will reveal the sheer amount of people dropping by talking about how they want to coach/teach/consult/write about shit they don't know anything about, and shit they haven't actually executed on. This behavior is essentially being encouraged here as of late because "it doesn't matter, bro, ChatGPT and Google can teach you everything you need to know."

What's even more bothersome is once upon a time, members here would actively call them out on their bullshit, MJ included. It seems everyone is beginning to float towards the mentality of "hey, man, if it gets you paid and it isn't illegal, you do you." Which is fine and all as people will live their lives. That's cool. The hypocrisy of it all is what drives me insane, and is ultimately why I try to spend as little time as possible on this forum nowadays.

When I initially joined, the community that existed felt like a strong, fierce group of people who were ready to go to war to help people and be successful. They were working on interesting shit. Some of them were doing groundbreaking shit. Now it feels like a whole bunch of lazy twats looking to make a quick and easy buck with their lame a$$ cryptos, their trash "courses," their irrelevant "workout plans," etc. The list is literally F*cking endless.

It feels like this forum is on the path of becoming the next "entrepreneurship" subreddit. And it's sad.

Cheers.

 

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[Kevin88660]

I'm unable to verbalize how much I outright disagree.

A simple thread scroll of the last 3-6 months will reveal the sheer amount of people dropping by talking about how they want to coach/teach/consult/write about shit they don't know anything about, and shit they haven't actually executed on. This behavior is essentially being encouraged here as of late because "it doesn't matter, bro, ChatGPT and Google can teach you everything you need to know."

What's even more bothersome is once upon a time, members here would actively call them out on their bullshit, MJ included. It seems everyone is beginning to float towards the mentality of "hey, man, if it gets you paid and it isn't illegal, you do you." Which is fine and all as people will live their lives. That's cool. It's the hypocrisy of it all is what drives me insane, and is ultimately why I try to spend as little time as possible on this forum nowadays.

When I initially joined, the community that existed felt like a strong, fierce group of people who were ready to go to war to help people and be successful. They were working on interesting shit. Some of them were doing groundbreaking shit. Now it feels like a whole bunch of lazy twats looking to make a quick and easy buck with their lame a$$ cryptos, their trash "courses," their irrelevant "workout plans," etc. The list is literally F*cking endless.

It feels like this forum is on the path of becoming the next "entrepreneurship" subreddit. And it's sad.

Cheers.

The recommendation algo, searches elsewhere online and the forum categorization here pretty much does a good job in making sure I don’t spend time reading things I don’t have interest in.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

What's even more bothersome is once upon a time, members here would actively call them out on their bullshit, MJ included.

I still do, I just get tired of being a mean old man.

Now it feels like a whole bunch of lazy twats looking to make a quick and easy buck with their lame a$$ cryptos, their trash "courses," their irrelevant "workout plans," etc.

I think your assessment is correct, however this is more of a cultural/societal problem, than a forum problem.

The forum is FREE, so it merely reflects whatever the culture is driving. And right now, the culture is driving easy fixes to hard problems... the crypto boom hasn't helped, YT get rich gurus haven't helped, and the clown business model of coaches teaching you how to be coaches (with ZERO experience or track record) hasn't helped either.



Also, my work is more popular overseas than it is here in the USA, which means, people in lesser developed countries aren't working for a dream, they are working for survival -- this encourages a lot of freelancer, easy-entry bullshit.

That said, there is a high likelihood I will be transforming the forum into a private, paid forum (don't worry, members with substantial track records will have grandfather privileges) with more transparency and barriers for access. This entry barrier will reduce a lot of the noise and low-value posts from drive-bys. Since G00gle has completely marginalized the forum's search engine traffic (and presence) there really is no sense in continuing the status quo.

And if anyone is curious why I'm considering such a move is forthcoming (not sure when however as I'm still dealing with platform software issues) it is because of low-value/landfill posts like these which have become far too frequent.

HOT! - MINDSET - Lost my job. Give it to me straight how F*cked am i?

I just lost my job. I am applying to multiple jobs right now but this has totally stalled my progress towards where i want to be. HOw F*cked am i? I have enough to live off of for 4 months but I dont want to go backwards in progrses. Im 28 and i feel like time is running out to be truly free...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

INVESTING - What future/forex broker allow you to risk only 1-2$ per trade ?

I have been learning and back testing a strategy with paper trading for a while and now i want to test it with real money, risking only 1-2$ per trade until I'm confident enough to put in more capital

www.thefastlaneforum.com

More importantly, I find most of my time is spent managing the bullshit around here, rather than actually providing meaningful help to people doing "groundbreaking things," and not spending quality time in the INSIDERS section where there is likely to be less noise and more action.

 

[Kevin88660]

I still do, I just get tired of being a mean old man.



I think your assessment is correct, however this is more of a cultural/societal problem, than a forum problem.

The forum is FREE, so it merely reflects whatever the culture is driving. And right now, the culture is driving easy fixes to hard problems... the crypto boom hasn't helped, YT get rich gurus haven't helped, and the clown business model of coaches teaching you how to be coaches (with ZERO experience or track record) hasn't helped either.

View attachment 55389

Also, my work is more popular overseas than it is here in the USA, which means, people in lesser developed countries aren't working for a dream, they are working for survival -- this encourages a lot of freelancer, easy-entry bullshit.

That said, there is a high likelihood I will be transforming the forum into a private, paid forum (don't worry, members with substantial track records will have grandfather privileges) with more transparency and barriers for access. This entry barrier will reduce a lot of the noise and low-value posts from drive-bys. Since G00gle has completely marginalized the forum's search engine traffic (and presence) there really is no sense in continuing the status quo.

And if anyone is curious why I'm considering such a move is forthcoming (not sure when however as I'm still dealing with platform software issues) it is because of low-value/landfill posts like these which have become far too frequent.

HOT! - MINDSET - Lost my job. Give it to me straight how F*cked am i?

I just lost my job. I am applying to multiple jobs right now but this has totally stalled my progress towards where i want to be. HOw F*cked am i? I have enough to live off of for 4 months but I dont want to go backwards in progrses. Im 28 and i feel like time is running out to be truly free...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

INVESTING - What future/forex broker allow you to risk only 1-2$ per trade ?

I have been learning and back testing a strategy with paper trading for a while and now i want to test it with real money, risking only 1-2$ per trade until I'm confident enough to put in more capital

www.thefastlaneforum.com

More importantly, I find most of my time is spent managing the bullshit around here, rather than actually providing meaningful help to people doing "groundbreaking things," and not spending quality time in the INSIDERS section where there is likely to be less noise and more action.

Depends on what you want.

You can raise the bar higher but interactions will be much less.

There needs to be a minimum critical mass of participation.

Having a “low value post” with lots of people screaming at it “low value” is really a “fake negative signal” in my opinion.

Flexing disagreement from a positional of higher moral ground is also a need that exists online.

There is also a natural tendency of inverse correlation between actions and words.

People who execute more, talk less, generally. The saas guys who made it had a gap of 4-5 years with no post. The most vocal participants might not spend too much time talking what they are executing on, unless there is a marketing potential. Even if they do talk about it, it might not get much response, because people are more attracted to drama than substance.

This leaves you with only the exception of Johnny boy who can consistently create engaging stories about his personal growth in expanding his business.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Having a “low value post” with lots of people screaming at it “low value” is really a “fake negative signal” in my opinion.

A low value post is a low value post.

Period.

It doesn't matter if 20 people scream at it, or ignore it completely. Either way, their days are numbered.

Also, you HAVE NO CLUE what goes on behind the scenes here, so your "opinion" is malformed because it lacks all available information.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

That said, there is a high likelihood I will be transforming the forum into a private, paid forum (don't worry, members with substantial track records will have grandfather privileges) with more transparency and barriers for access.

I think this is a great idea. I always like to say that people will pay for value — and if they don’t pay, then they don’t truly need it. Those posters you referenced above don’t really care if they get banned or not. The forum is more entertainment and wasting time than anything else for them.

Also, my work is more popular overseas than it is here in the USA, which means, people in lesser developed countries aren't working for a dream, they are working for survival -- this encourages a lot of freelancer, easy-entry bullshit.

In my case, when I returned from the UK to Romania, I wasn’t worried about survival. But I still went back to freelancing, because I didn’t know what else to do.

And this is important for educated, intelligent people. It’s not that many of us lack ambition or merely want to survive, but rather that we simply don’t know what to do.

So freelancing ends up being an obvious choice to controlling your own time, learning about businesses by working with other businesses and so on. I mean, much better than sitting thumb up the butt, excuse the expression, and thinking what you should do.

I can predict the standard answer from you here would be “so you don’t have any problems?”, and that’s useful up to a point. However, as a 23-year old back then, my “problems” would be things like making money on my own without a job, dating, discipline, sleeping late, OCD.

So being honest, those aren’t great problems to solve, and are unlikely businesses to be successful in. Not impossible, just unlikely.

For beginners to succeed they need direction — this doesn’t mean every answer is figured out for them, but a journey should be mapped out. And the most important thing for a beginner is generating cash flow — LOTS OF IT. Once you have cash flow, the gateways of opportunities open up. Nowadays I have people reaching out to me by themselves offering to send me business. I am in talks with such an agency today. Success breeds success.

So the key question for a beginner is how do you get that first success? What does that first “cash flow” business look like?

I’m not saying this is the only path, but it’s far more common than 20-yr old kid launches tech product, gets investors, becomes billionaire/millionaire.

If I was to give advice to my 23-yr old self I would say:
• start a B2B business, not a B2C. If you start a B2C, start an eCommerce business that can be scaled via ads.
• Avoid B2C, avoid courses / info products, avoid SaaS (unless programming is your forte / you have access to good programmers).
• seek to sell something with a direct impact on the bottom line: more revenue or lower costs.

Now what that B2B business is, how to find them, etc. all of that doesn’t have to be figured out. But the direction is a requirement for a beginner imo. Otherwise they don’t even know what to think about except the pathetic little problems that they or their friends have, which are unlikely to lead to great success. Or they look around, they see their friends doing say landscaping, they do landscaping too.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Here we go @MJ DeMarco :

Post in thread 'Moved across the country alone and living in a car. Update thread until stability'
MINDSET - EXECUTION - Moved across the country alone and living in a car. Update thread until stability

Just posted 2mins after my post. I’m telling you, “not knowing what to do” and “lacking direction” is the NUMBER ONE reason why more (intelligent) people don’t do “groundbreaking things”.

It’s certainly why I went back to freelancing instead of launching a business. And I had read TMF beforehand, and as we both know I’m not exactly a dumb guy either.

 

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[Bounce Back]

I think your assessment is correct, however this is more of a cultural/societal problem, than a forum problem.

As someone who was originally here in 2016 (by the way I remembered my original username a few weeks back) - agree with this 100% and feel the same vibe Oso is saying. I agree nothing has changed except MJs books are more popular, the forum's SEO is better, and society itself has had ~10 more years of seeing sketchy people make money online to the point its more normalized and people don't feel as much shame following their path.

 

[Kevin88660]

Here we go @MJ DeMarco :

Post in thread 'Moved across the country alone and living in a car. Update thread until stability'
MINDSET - EXECUTION - Moved across the country alone and living in a car. Update thread until stability

Just posted 2mins after my post. I’m telling you, “not knowing what to do” and “lacking direction” is the NUMBER ONE reason why more (intelligent) people don’t do “groundbreaking things”.

It’s certainly why I went back to freelancing instead of launching a business. And I had read TMF beforehand, and as we both know I’m not exactly a dumb guy either.

Here we go @MJ DeMarco :

Post in thread 'Moved across the country alone and living in a car. Update thread until stability'
MINDSET - EXECUTION - Moved across the country alone and living in a car. Update thread until stability

Just posted 2mins after my post. I’m telling you, “not knowing what to do” and “lacking direction” is the NUMBER ONE reason why more (intelligent) people don’t do “groundbreaking things”.

It’s certainly why I went back to freelancing instead of launching a business. And I had read TMF beforehand, and as we both know I’m not exactly a dumb guy either.

Starting with boring ideas is always better than not taking any action.

Plenty of information in this forum alone or elsewhere on SAAS and Ecommerce.

While I am clueless about how to actually run them myself, it is obvious that they are a viable market big enough for any new entrant to dive into a niche.

We could observe that people who are drawing high pay in slowlane jobs right out of colleges are those who studied computer science and joined Big Tech. So it makes sense to do the same if you want the same result. Similarly most of the success case studies from this forum and elsewhere seem to be overwhelmingly from E-commerce and SAAS.

A “slower” path is getting apprenticeship in an evergreen unsexy field with a lot of small businesses run by aging boomers and their children are too uninterested to take over them. I call this a “Sure Millionaire Path” in ten years if you put in the hours. You are not going to have a beautiful 8 figures exit. But you aren’t wasting your time here and there either.

I don’t claim to have “best ideas” but I always struggle to understand about having no idea to work on.

 

[Aidan04]

I'm unable to verbalize how much I outright disagree.

A simple thread scroll of the last 3-6 months will reveal the sheer amount of people dropping by talking about how they want to coach/teach/consult/write about shit they don't know anything about, and shit they haven't actually executed on. This behavior is essentially being encouraged here as of late because "it doesn't matter, bro, ChatGPT and Google can teach you everything you need to know."

What's even more bothersome is once upon a time, members here would actively call them out on their bullshit, MJ included. It seems everyone is beginning to float towards the mentality of "hey, man, if it gets you paid and it isn't illegal, you do you." Which is fine and all as people will live their lives. That's cool. It's the hypocrisy of it all is what drives me insane, and is ultimately why I try to spend as little time as possible on this forum nowadays.

When I initially joined, the community that existed felt like a strong, fierce group of people who were ready to go to war to help people and be successful. They were working on interesting shit. Some of them were doing groundbreaking shit. Now it feels like a whole bunch of lazy twats looking to make a quick and easy buck with their lame a$$ cryptos, their trash "courses," their irrelevant "workout plans," etc. The list is literally F*cking endless.

It feels like this forum is on the path of becoming the next "entrepreneurship" subreddit. And it's sad.

Cheers.

Exactly. What the hell happened to talking about CENTS businesses?

What happened to helping people and fixing inconveniences in people's lives?

What happened to progress threads? (@Spenny and @NIK4658 you guys are F*cking killing it right now)

What happened to watching someone go from zero to Fastlane status over a few years?

Damn shame what people are posting about these days. Notice how we haven't had a lot of new Gold threads?

A bit of a radical idea, but I think it's time for a mass purge of users.

 

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[heavy_industry]

it is because of low-value/landfill posts like these which have become far too frequent.

A bit of a radical idea, but I think it's time for a mass purge of users.

*** SWEATS PROFUSELY ***

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Exactly. What the hell happened to talking about CENTS businesses?

The issue is that it’s very hard to build a CENTS business as a newbie. If you’ve been in the startup world for 15 years, you were involved in scaling a few startups from the ground up, and so on, then maybe you have a sufficient combo of skills, know-how, connections, and industry-specific insight to pull it off. Or, sure, you can be Mark Zuckerberg and happen to land on the right idea at the right time.

But as a newbie? The chances are stacked against you! 80% of the forum users at least are brokies — don’t even have a business, much less a successful one lol. I know because I ran surveys — and this was 3-4 years ago. Now it’s probably worse.

The number of people here who made $100K/year+ in revenue from their business is 1% or less.

Take my business for instance. When I started it, it lacked C and E. It had NTS. Now I’ve built E over time. C is still not there.

So most new businesses have no ability to go for CENTS from the get-go. You go for some lower variant of CENTS and build up to it over time. If you don’t do this, guess what, your future CENTS business doesn’t get off the ground.

What happened to progress threads?

I don’t have a progress thread, but I have posted threads asking for advice on the issues I was dealing with. It always got 1-2 responses, usually from the more senior members, and advice which was sort of generic, because guess what, they don’t know my industry.

There are some great progress threads going on… a recent one is @mikecarlooch — I’ve been helping him, but I’m lucky because I’m ahead of the journey and in a similar (non-competing) niche to him, so I can advise him.

But when you get a real estate developer advising me, for example, or the other way around, you can clearly see how the advice isn’t going to be tailored to our industries.

This is precisely the challenge of running a “business” forum. Business is not the same thing. One business and another business, are two completely different entities. It’s like having two animals of a different species sharing the same name — how confusing would that be?

What each needs to be successful is wildly different.

 

[Aidan04]

The issue is that it’s very hard to build a CENTS business as a newbie. If you’ve been in the startup world for 15 years, you were involved in scaling a few startups from the ground up, and so on, then maybe you have a sufficient combo of skills, know-how, connections, and industry-specific insight to pull it off. Or, sure, you can be Mark Zuckerberg and happen to land on the right idea at the right time.

Excuses. @Spenny is 22 and in college, and he's killing it and making tons of sales with his products. Same with @NIK4658.

These people are just my friends. Think about the thousands of others just like them.

We all started from relatively nothing in our garages. You scale as time goes on from prototype to initial models to final versions with feedback from customers. If your shit solves a problem, nobody cares.

Sure, different fields have different barriers to entry, and different fields develop different aspects of CENTS over time, but you're missing my point.

Also, I get it. I'm a "brokie". I'm not as wealthy as you, but I'm 19, and probably far ahead of most people my age.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Excuses. @Spenny is 22 and in college, and he's killing it and making tons of sales with his products. Same with @NIK4658.

These people are just my friends. Think about the thousands of others just like them.

We all started from relatively nothing in our garages. You scale as time goes on from prototype to initial models to final versions with feedback from customers. If your shit solves a problem, nobody cares.

Sure, different fields have different barriers to entry, and different fields develop different aspects of CENTS over time, but you're missing my point.

I don’t know a lot about either, but I have given their threads a glance. “Killing it” seems to be a huge exaggeration though.

I’m not sure about Spenny’s actual numbers. It seems he sold 1000 or so of a $10 item with a 40% profit margin?

Bottom line is they’re both incredibly tiny as businesses.

And if that’s what you call “killing it” it means that you’ve set your sights far too low — way below the “fastlane”. And that’s precisely why I agree with making this forum a paid-only community. Everyone needs to set their sights much much higher, and demand 100x from themselves.

What they’re doing is great compared to their age and “most people”. But you’re not here hopefully to compare yourself with most people. Imo if you truly want to be a fastlane entrepreneur you shouldn’t compare yourself with tiny businesses. You should be asking how can I be top 1% amongst the top 1%?

You shouldn’t even compare yourself with me. Or with Johnny boy. Or most people here. I look at myself as basically a loser. There are other 30-year olds with $20M in the bank. Compared to them, as Dan Pena would say, I’m not even a drop of sweat on their ball sack, excuse Dan’s expression.

You want to think big? Fine, me too. There are 20-year old kids going from 0 to $5 million in a year. That’s what I’m interested in. What are they doing? What kind of opportunities do they pursue? What kind of strategies do they use to achieve that scale? That imo is a real CENTS business — and that’s super HARD to build, otherwise everyone would do it. The rest is just vanity metrics.

What I’ve noticed is that these people who scale really fast, do so with REAL CENTS businesses. Very solid control, clear entry barriers that they somehow get around through cleverness or knowing something others don’t, clear need, they get others to do the work from the start, and scale is built-in either via viral marketing or flywheels. Usually they have an insane profit margin too, that allows for rapid accumulation of cash. Usually they also leverage existing marketing infrastructure really well to do it.

 

[Spenny]

This is a trainwreck of a thread. It is all fine to play devil's advocate, Black Dragon, but calling people "brokies" isn't professional to people who could be your peers for the Fastlane. It doesn't make others want to work or associate with you. Maybe you don't care, whatever. Others will be busy collaborating.

"The good old days" were previously mentioned on the forum, when people worked on amazing projects and helped each other. I know you're working with Mike, but does a thread like this inspire community?

Calling people brokies?
Clearly trolling others?
Looking to be controversial for an argument?

Does this make me want to read posts? Does this make me want to stay around? Contribute? If this was a first impression of the forum, Elon Musk will never post.

For those reading, are you withholding something that can boost the community? Why the hell are we whining and reminising about the past when you can make a difference RIGHT NOW by posting high-quality content?

Amazing insights? Guidance for new members? Don't be selfish. Don't be silly and whine. Do something goddamn it.

I haven't done much on the forum compared to others, but I try my best to ensure that my posts and conversations with people generate value and uplift them. @Black_Dragon43 and @Oso, you're both in a great position to post GOLD after GOLD if you want to. You've both been on the forum for a while and I'm sure people and learn a lot.

Let's try to at least be an example. Those with two brain cells will follow suit.

Everyone needs to set their sights much much higher, and demand 100x from themselves.

I do agree. @Aidan04 I wish I were killing it. Compared to my age peers, I'm doing well, but I want to do much, much better.

It's not about being the 1% of the 1% of finances.

It's cool, but I don't need it.

It's more to do with solving the problems people struggle with and need help with.

I've realised that nothing will change once I get the money, the cars, the materialistic things. It may bring me momentary joy, but I don't think it'll match a five-star review.

I know that going forward, I will never forget that rush of "You got a sale!" when you're plodding around doing other stuff. Or the tsunami of sales from a successful marketing campaign. Or that person who posts and enthusiastically reviews your product. It will loom over me and likely eat me alive if ignore it.

Pandora's box is open. I want to offer more products, get more 5-star reviews, and help more people—so many more people.

I'm pleased with where I've gotten so far, but I have bigger dreams for the future. This tiny business is a speck compared to whatever Pena or any other wet wipe guru goes on about in their amped-up talks is nothing, but it means a lot to my development & direction. Far more than anything I've read, learned or experienced.

I've come to realise that I live for other people and can solve problems for them. It kills me if I can't do that. Doing my degree is an example of that.


So sure, I'm not going from $0-$5mil yet, but I know I'm on a great trajectory. I could compare myself to others doing the same, but that's not the game I'm playing. That is a bottomless pit & I'd prefer not to go there. I can work myself up, peering over the fence and hopping around, or I can relax and look around at who I can help right now & keep being consistent.

 

[BizyDad]

... it encourages you to look past the accolades someone has and think with your own brain

Nick Bollettieri is the greatest tennis coach in history. Produced over 10 grand slam champions, including the likes of Agassi, Williams sisters, Sharapova, and so on.

In all the Black Dragon threads in all the forum, if you let him talk long enough, you'll spot the moments where he contradicts himself.

The reasons for failure are all to do with sucky students, not with the course material

The ethical justification of every shyster. Don't blame my stuff, it is 100% the sucky student.

I love when BD speaks in superlatives and absolutes.

This is a trainwreck of a thread. It is all fine to play devil's advocate, Black Dragon, but calling people "brokies" isn't professional to people who could be your peers for the Fastlane. It doesn't make others want to work or associate with you. Maybe you don't care, whatever. Others will be busy collaborating.

"The good old days" were previously mentioned on the forum, when people worked on amazing projects and helped each other. I know you're working with Mike, but does a thread like this inspire community?

Calling people brokies?
Clearly trolling others?
Looking to be controversial for an argument?

Does this make me want to read posts? Does this make me want to stay around? Contribute? If this was a first impression of the forum, Elon Musk will never post.

For those reading, are you withholding something that can boost the community? Why the hell are we whining and reminising about the past when you can make a difference RIGHT NOW by posting high-quality content?

Well said. And imo, there's nothing more to say.

 

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[mikecarlooch]

I still do, I just get tired of being a mean old man.



I think your assessment is correct, however this is more of a cultural/societal problem, than a forum problem.

The forum is FREE, so it merely reflects whatever the culture is driving. And right now, the culture is driving easy fixes to hard problems... the crypto boom hasn't helped, YT get rich gurus haven't helped, and the clown business model of coaches teaching you how to be coaches (with ZERO experience or track record) hasn't helped either.

View attachment 55389

Also, my work is more popular overseas than it is here in the USA, which means, people in lesser developed countries aren't working for a dream, they are working for survival -- this encourages a lot of freelancer, easy-entry bullshit.

That said, there is a high likelihood I will be transforming the forum into a private, paid forum (don't worry, members with substantial track records will have grandfather privileges) with more transparency and barriers for access. This entry barrier will reduce a lot of the noise and low-value posts from drive-bys. Since G00gle has completely marginalized the forum's search engine traffic (and presence) there really is no sense in continuing the status quo.

And if anyone is curious why I'm considering such a move is forthcoming (not sure when however as I'm still dealing with platform software issues) it is because of low-value/landfill posts like these which have become far too frequent.

HOT! - MINDSET - Lost my job. Give it to me straight how F*cked am i?

I just lost my job. I am applying to multiple jobs right now but this has totally stalled my progress towards where i want to be. HOw F*cked am i? I have enough to live off of for 4 months but I dont want to go backwards in progrses. Im 28 and i feel like time is running out to be truly free...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

INVESTING - What future/forex broker allow you to risk only 1-2$ per trade ?

I have been learning and back testing a strategy with paper trading for a while and now i want to test it with real money, risking only 1-2$ per trade until I'm confident enough to put in more capital

www.thefastlaneforum.com

More importantly, I find most of my time is spent managing the bullshit around here, rather than actually providing meaningful help to people doing "groundbreaking things," and not spending quality time in the INSIDERS section where there is likely to be less noise and more action.

Excited to see if this happens!!

 

[Aidan04]

This is a trainwreck of a thread. It is all fine to play devil's advocate, Black Dragon, but calling people "brokies" isn't professional to people who could be your peers for the Fastlane. It doesn't make others want to work or associate with you. Maybe you don't care, whatever. Others will be busy collaborating.

"The good old days" were previously mentioned on the forum, when people worked on amazing projects and helped each other. I know you're working with Mike, but does a thread like this inspire community?

Calling people brokies?
Clearly trolling others?
Looking to be controversial for an argument?

Does this make me want to read posts? Does this make me want to stay around? Contribute? If this was a first impression of the forum, Elon Musk will never post.

For those reading, are you withholding something that can boost the community? Why the hell are we whining and reminising about the past when you can make a difference RIGHT NOW by posting high-quality content?

Amazing insights? Guidance for new members? Don't be selfish. Don't be silly and whine. Do something goddamn it.

I haven't done much on the forum compared to others, but I try my best to ensure that my posts and conversations with people generate value and uplift them. @Black_Dragon43 and @Oso, you're both in a great position to post GOLD after GOLD if you want to. You've both been on the forum for a while and I'm sure people and learn a lot.

Let's try to at least be an example. Those with two brain cells will follow suit.


I do agree. @Aidan04 I wish I were killing it. Compared to my age peers, I'm doing well, but I want to do much, much better.

It's not about being the 1% of the 1% of finances.

It's cool, but I don't need it.

It's more to do with solving the problems people struggle with and need help with.

I've realised that nothing will change once I get the money, the cars, the materialistic things. It may bring me momentary joy, but I don't think it'll match a five-star review.

I know that going forward, I will never forget that rush of "You got a sale!" when you're plodding around doing other stuff. Or the tsunami of sales from a successful marketing campaign. Or that person who posts and enthusiastically reviews your product. It will loom over me and likely eat me alive if ignore it.

Pandora's box is open. I want to offer more products, get more 5-star reviews, and help more people—so many more people.

I'm pleased with where I've gotten so far, but I have bigger dreams for the future. This tiny business is a speck compared to whatever Pena or any other wet wipe guru goes on about in their amped-up talks is nothing, but it means a lot to my development & direction. Far more than anything I've read, learned or experienced.

I've come to realise that I live for other people and can solve problems for them. It kills me if I can't do that. Doing my degree is an example of that.


So sure, I'm not going from $0-$5mil yet, but I know I'm on a great trajectory. I could compare myself to others doing the same, but that's not the game I'm playing. That is a bottomless pit & I'd prefer not to go there. I can work myself up, peering over the fence and hopping around, or I can relax and look around at who I can help right now & keep being consistent.

You're my boy so I may have been a little biased, but to me, you have the beginnings of a productocracy. To me, you're going to make giant leaps. Same with Nik and the rest of the gang.

As you said, solving problems for people is the foundation of what we do.

You shouldn’t even compare yourself with me. Or with Johnny boy. Or most people here. I look at myself as basically a loser. There are other 30-year olds with $20M in the bank. Compared to them, as Dan Pena would say, I’m not even a drop of sweat on their ball sack, excuse Dan’s expression.

You want to think big? Fine, me too. There are 20-year old kids going from 0 to $5 million in a year. That’s what I’m interested in. What are they doing? What kind of opportunities do they pursue? What kind of strategies do they use to achieve that scale? That imo is a real CENTS business — and that’s super HARD to build, otherwise everyone would do it. The rest is just vanity metrics.

What I’ve noticed is that these people who scale really fast, do so with REAL CENTS businesses. Very solid control, clear entry barriers that they somehow get around through cleverness or knowing something others don’t, clear need, they get others to do the work from the start, and scale is built-in either via viral marketing or flywheels. Usually they have an insane profit margin too, that allows for rapid accumulation of cash. Usually they also leverage existing marketing infrastructure really well to do it.

Who F*cking cares how much money those people have?

Why are you calling yourself a loser when (I assume) you have the means to live freely and do whatever you want with your life? Is that not enough? I'm personally not going to step on a hedonic treadmill and compare my material wealth to others.

Also, I had to google what the hell a "flywheel" is. Sounds like some corporate guru buzzword bullshit. I think a better term would be customer service, a value skew, or even a productocracy.

We ask a lot from ourselves, and we stay consistent. We'll reach the summit eventually, and it's not about how fast we do it.

None of us aim to become the next 20-year-old unicorn startup CEO, we just want to be free. Free to travel, pursue what we want to build, have meaningful relationships, support family/friends, and live comfortably (and possibly a bit luxuriously) without worrying about bills or finances.

 

[Lyzmin]

That said, there is a high likelihood I will be transforming the forum into a private, paid forum (don't worry, members with substantial track records will have grandfather privileges) with more transparency and barriers for access. This entry barrier will reduce a lot of the noise and low-value posts from drive-bys. Since G00gle has completely marginalized the forum's search engine traffic (and presence) there really is no sense in continuing the status quo.

I think this is a great idea. I always like to say that people will pay for value — and if they don’t pay, then they don’t truly need it. Those posters you referenced above don’t really care if they get banned or not. The forum is more entertainment and wasting time than anything else for them.

@MJ DeMarco yes please! Last year February I became a paid member. This year I haven’t renewed. Makes me think of the posting ‘Elon Musk come on the forum and… left again’. Not to compare myself with him. It takes a lot of time to find ‘gold’ in the landfill. Time which is spend better elsewhere. Which is a shame, because people like @Andy Black, @Fox and more authors post valuable content.

I’m looking forward to the developments

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Who F*cking cares how much money those people have?

Why are you calling yourself a loser when (I assume) you have the means to live freely and do whatever you want with your life?

Well, clearly we’re very different. You say it’s not about how fast you do it… but then you’re supposed to be on the “fast”lane.

You say it’s not about money / success but “having the means to live freely and do whatever you want with your life”. That sounds more like 4-hour work week dribble than fastlane to me.

I can’t but look around and see the truth. I’m a speck of dust compared to most really successful people. I’d advise everyone here to stop comparing yourself with your peers and who you personally know, and start comparing yourself with those who are winning big. Because the truth is you’re most likely surrounded by losers with very low expectations of themselves.

Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk wouldn’t hang on this forum ever — because none of us have solutions to the issues they’re dealing with or interested to solve. Heck, hardly anyone has solutions for each other here at a high level. Most of us are here helping beginners get started. Because “getting started” is what 95% of the people here are dealing with.

So my whole point is “yes” — let’s help people get started in a faster way on the fastlane. But we’re not going to do that by teaching them to open a small business doing landscaping work. Sure, opening such a small business provides value — but is that enough to build a $30M company in 4-5 years? Most likely not.

We need to be able to distinguish opportunities much better, and guide beginners towards opportunities that have fastlane potential a lot more. That’s my 2c.

does a thread like this inspire community?

It’s meant to inspire debate — debate is critical to an active community and also to the development of storehouses of knowledge in it. A newbie wanting to get started in coaching will now be able to find pro and con opinions with 1-click and make a decision for himself.

And were it not for this thread, we would never have addressed the issue of low quality posts in an open forum.

So I think it has done its role, and added far more value to the community and its development than “hey! I just made $500k, here’s how” threads lol

Calling people brokies?
Clearly trolling others?
Looking to be controversial for an argument?

Who did I troll?

It's not about being the 1% of the 1% of finances.

It's cool, but I don't need it.

It's more to do with solving the problems people struggle with and need help with.

I've realised that nothing will change once I get the money, the cars, the materialistic things. It may bring me momentary joy, but I don't think it'll match a five-star review.

This is another pet-peeve of mine. Whenever I point out "Look, X, Y, Z isn't getting results (money)", I'm told "but it's getting {insert vanity metric here}". It's getting impressions. It's getting likes. It's getting reviews. And so on. The bottom line is that beyond the "feel good" and "let's be popular" contest, the ultimate proof of value, as MJ's books make clear, is money.

Otherwise, I'd encourage you to start a charity. Ask for money from rich people, and use that money to do good. Why waste your time trying to make something economically sustainable, when you could get a ton more money and help a lot more people by running a charity, and do it a lot faster too?

If this was a first impression of the forum, Elon Musk will never post.

There’s no thread here which if it was a first impression would make Elon Musk post. If it’s not aligned with what he’s working on, he doesn’t care about it. And you chose the worst example — Elon Musk is a big brat and selfish troll, whom you wouldn’t want to be around.

And btw, do you remember when Noah Kagan posted? How long did that embarrasing drive-by with 1-word answers to the plebs last? Not long did it?!

Because guess what — all these guys, if there’s not something in it for THEM, they’re out. They don’t come here for discussions or community — most don’t care about that. They care about dollar signs. And that's what makes them different for you. Caring about others, for these guys, is just food for the plebs. It's not a reflection of their real intentions, which are visible if you look at their actions instead of what comes out of their mouths.

It doesn't make others want to work or associate with you. Maybe you don't care, whatever. Others will be busy collaborating.

Don't be naive. If it's in anyone's self-interest to do business with me, they will do business with me. Me being a nice guy has nothing to do with it.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

The ethical justification of every shyster. Don't blame my stuff, it is 100% the sucky student.

Do you want to debate the fact that 80% of course purchases aren’t even OPENED properly, much less followed-through? Because I have actual numbers. Most buyers don’t get any value because they do F*ck all. It’s the same with the buyers of MJ’s book. I dare guess that 80% of them don’t do anything. 10-15% give a half-assed effort (like sign up on fastlane and dropship tshirts lol). And only 5-10% give it a real try and stick around and stay committed for years.

Do you know what this means? It means that 80% of your money comes from losers who won’t amount to anything. It may be harsh, but it’s the truth. And as a business owner, financially, you want to get the losers since that’s where the bulk of your market is. You would never be profitable without the 80% who don’t do anything.

Does this mean it’s morally OK to sell them crap? No. But it does mean that you can’t expect this 80% to get results or blame yourself if they don’t.

When it comes to analyzing how good your course is, you need to look at the hardcore students — those who actually implement and do everything you’re telling them to do. And if they fail, then yes, your course sucks, and you need to adjust it.

 

[Fox]

Years ago I did coaching with AndrewNYC (or whatever his username was).

I paid $500 to have him teach me to hum some NLP nonsense and tap my forehead with my thumb.
In the background he had a pile of messy clothes all about to fall out of his wardrobe.

Of course it did absolutely nothing - but I was too new to the forum and felt too embarrassed to ask for a refund.

On the other hand, in the last year I have had coaching from some of the top creators on Instagram and Youtube.
People in the trenches everyday working with top brands and people like Mr Beast.

And it shows - highly applicable advice based on years of trial and error.

I actually love coaching but I absolutely hate the industry. And this thread has those same vibes.

If you can't bake a cake... how the hell can you teach someone else to do it.
And this scales up to all skills, business models, and "success".

 

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[rpeck90]

Do you want to debate the fact that 80% of course purchases aren’t even OPENED properly, much less followed-through? Because I have actual numbers. Most buyers don’t get any value because they do F*ck all. It’s the same with the buyers of MJ’s book. I dare guess that 80% of them don’t do anything. 10-15% give a half-assed effort (like sign up on fastlane and dropship tshirts lol). And only 5-10% give it a real try and stick around and stay committed for years.

Do you know what this means? It means that 80% of your money comes from losers who won’t amount to anything. It may be harsh, but it’s the truth. And as a business owner, financially, you want to get the losers since that’s where the bulk of your market is. You would never be profitable without the 80% who don’t do anything.

Does this mean it’s morally OK to sell them crap? No. But it does mean that you can’t expect this 80% to get results or blame yourself if they don’t.

When it comes to analyzing how good your course is, you need to look at the hardcore students — those who actually implement and do everything you’re telling them to do. And if they fail, then yes, your course sucks, and you need to adjust it.

With experience, you begin to realize that most people don't have the resolve to solve their problems on their own - most want someone else to fix the issue for them, which doesn't work for things like "how to build a business".

In the case of online courses, that typically comes down to the high one gets from committing to it, before realising after 2 weeks that it's boring and difficult to maintain momentum. Weight loss is a big example, excusing the pun.

In that context, most buyers, particularly for lower level courses, are going to fail and there's nothing you can do about it because they don't have the motivation to utilise the information properly.

What you do with that will dependent on what your moral compass tells you - either you can start selling entry level stuff to the hopeful, or you can raise your prices and focus on the smaller number who absolutely will benefit from what you have & have the means to pay for it.

--

To play devil's advocate - I think people are annoyed at the absolutism in which Tudor has addressed the issue, but couldn't it be put in a different light... what about building a business?

Surely, if you aspire to be a CEO, who has to build & lead a team, you can't be expected to know each team members' job better than them? If that was the case, why don't you just get a VA in the Philippines and direct the work yourself?

On that basis, could you not argue that what Tudor is really suggesting is that there are instances where developing a system is more valuable than being part of the system yourself? In fact, I am sure it's something @Kak has advocated a lot for in the past. I doubt the CEO of Starbucks, for example, is an excellent barista, and yet the business he /she runs employs 1,000's. Steve Jobs, famously, couldn't code.

From that perspective, could you not argue that the person developing/perfecting/defining a system that permits others to excel is - arguably - more valuable than the person doing the work? In a business context you, obviously, need both... but there are plenty of highly talented or skilled practitioners that I've seen totally underperform due to not having an appropriate framework through which to grow & develop their craft.

So whilst I would not advocate for someone becoming a fake guru, I think there is definitely merit in the development of systems, within the right context.

Perhaps Tudor could give some insight into how he's doing that with his business, and the agency he had in the past... how does one go from a sole proprietor to having a team? What are the necessary steps required to make that transition and at what point do you become a system builder, rather than just a cog?

--

Excuses. @Spenny is 22 and in college, and he's killing it and making tons of sales with his products. Same with @NIK4658.

These people are just my friends. Think about the thousands of others just like them.

We all started from relatively nothing in our garages. You scale as time goes on from prototype to initial models to final versions with feedback from customers. If your shit solves a problem, nobody cares.

Sure, different fields have different barriers to entry, and different fields develop different aspects of CENTS over time, but you're missing my point.

Also, I get it. I'm a "brokie". I'm not as wealthy as you, but I'm 19, and probably far ahead of most people my age.

Ignore the brokie thing, most people are broke and even people "with money" have money problems.

The issue that, I think, Tudor was referring to in his response to this is that @Spenny doesn't have a business. He's selling a product and making sales (which amazing and to be congratulated), but will it scale? Does he have the capital required to go to the next level? I'm doubtful, although I don't know him.

This problem is acute and few people appreciate its importance. In fact, I even mentioned something about it on that accountability call I've been partaking in and received a bunch of downvotes. Sales are important but there is a whole set of challenges which come with growth, and having the means to capitalize the business to the extent that you can mitigate those challenges is crucial.

As @Black_Dragon43 has done this (he has a thriving company that provides work for a growing number of staff), it would be interesting to hear his take on how he's gone about it. I think a lot of the people in the public version of this forum have not considered the wider ramifications of employing staff, paying taxes, developing IP, having systems which can be scaled etc... there comes a point where getting sales is not your biggest challenge.

 

[Panos Daras]

With experience, you begin to realize that most people don't have the resolve to solve their problems on their own - most want someone else to fix the issue for them, which doesn't work for things like "how to build a business".

In the case of online courses, that typically comes down to the high one gets from committing to it, before realising after 2 weeks that it's boring and difficult to maintain momentum. Weight loss is a big example, excusing the pun.

In that context, most buyers, particularly for lower level courses, are going to fail and there's nothing you can do about it because they don't have the motivation to utilise the information properly.

What you do with that will dependent on what your moral compass tells you - either you can start selling entry level stuff to the hopeful, or you can raise your prices and focus on the smaller number who absolutely will benefit from what you have & have the means to pay for it.

--

To play devil's advocate - I think people are annoyed at the absolutism in which Tudor has addressed the issue, but couldn't it be put in a different light... what about building a business?

Surely, if you aspire to be a CEO, who has to build & lead a team, you can't be expected to know each team members' job better than them? If that was the case, why don't you just get a VA in the Philippines and direct the work yourself?

On that basis, could you not argue that what Tudor is really suggesting is that there are instances where developing a system is more valuable than being part of the system yourself? In fact, I am sure it's something @Kak has advocated a lot for in the past. I doubt the CEO of Starbucks, for example, is an excellent barista, and yet the business he /she runs employs 1,000's. Steve Jobs, famously, couldn't code.

From that perspective, could you not argue that the person developing/perfecting/defining a system that permits others to excel is - arguably - more valuable than the person doing the work? In a business context you, obviously, need both... but there are plenty of highly talented or skilled practitioners that I've seen totally underperform due to not having an appropriate framework through which to grow & develop their craft.

So whilst I would not advocate for someone becoming a fake guru, I think there is definitely merit in the development of systems, within the right context.

Perhaps Tudor could give some insight into how he's doing that with his business, and the agency he had in the past... how does one go from a sole proprietor to having a team? What are the necessary steps required to make that transition and at what point do you become a system builder, rather than just a cog?

--



Ignore the brokie thing, most people are broke and even people "with money" have money problems.

The issue that, I think, Tudor was referring to in his response to this is that @Spenny doesn't have a business. He's selling a product and making sales (which amazing and to be congratulated), but will it scale? Does he have the capital required to go to the next level? I'm doubtful, although I don't know him.

This problem is acute and few people appreciate its importance. In fact, I even mentioned something about it on that accountability call I've been partaking in and received a bunch of downvotes. Sales are important but there is a whole set of challenges which come with growth, and having the means to capitalize the business to the extent that you can mitigate those challenges is crucial.

As @Black_Dragon43 has done this (he has a thriving company that provides work for a growing number of staff), it would be interesting to hear his take on how he's gone about it. I think a lot of the people in the public version of this forum have not considered the wider ramifications of employing staff, developing IP, having systems which can be scaled etc... there comes a point where getting sales is not your biggest challenge.

Another off-topic comment. This conversation is going nowhere. Threads like this make me wonder how I'm spending my time on this planet.