Lex DeVille's - I Deleted My Upwork Account...

[jmomcc]

I honestly don't see this Upwork stuff as worth the time.

I can put in a few months of work and get a 100k plus job with the same amount of time that I would put into Upwork and get less than half the money.

I understand the working from home aspect, but the time you put into it still feels like a job.

If you can do this, why don't you apply yourself, document how you did it and then sell that system to other people? Half the world would pay for a course that taught them how to land a 100k job/ make a 100k a year.

 

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[Azure]

I'd love to know what kind of job you'd land that generates 75-100k with only a few months of training.

Can I do it too?

 

[AllenCrawley]

I'd love to know what kind of job you'd land that generates 75-100k with only a few months of training.

Can I do it too?

I'd guess he's been in contact with a certain someone from the forum who makes such claims. I don't know.

Like I said, I can spend a few months putting in some work and getting a 100k+ job, 75k at the very least, and I would be using the same amount of time that someone would spend on Upwork doing menial jobs and trying to establish themselves.

Ready. Set. GO!

 

[Raoul Duke]

Well, I ignored another forum member today.

@SinisterLex keep up the good work!

 

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[AlphaWulf]

This thread has nuggets of golden information. Glad I stumbled upon it. Lex, keep up with the youtube videos. I like your attitude, cracks me up haha.

 

[Formless]

In this thread, Lex (once again) dissolves the foundation of excuses people have built for themselves, piece by piece.

Notice how fervently people defend these excuses.

You're doing fantastic work man. That video about the shark-tank company gave me a lightbulb moment about what 'big picture thinking' actually looks like. I always know it in theory, until the money starts to run low and I get dumb 'n desperate.

Another thing that's good to see is how willing you are to eat shit (i.e. do free samples, work for $5 per hour etc) just to help your clients. Reading about 'focusing on them' and seeing what 'focusing on them' looks like has a completely different level of impact. So many newbies will see it and say 'this guy used to $100 per hour and HE'S willing to do single-digit-dollar jobs? I guess I'm not above doing that myself.'


+Rep Transferred

 

[1step]

"Upwork is too saturated"
I posted a copywriting job recently and got less than 10 applications - plenty of my jobs go unfilled and must be reposted because there are no good candidates within the first 3 days (design, code, copywriting, everything!). Upwork isn't too saturated and if you think it is you probably haven't been on the hiring side of it.

In the past I have hired 3 copywriters from upwork who applied for my jobs. After the initial job, the next time I contact them a few weeks or months later they are always booked up for several weeks. Theres so much work available to them they no longer have to post applications to jobs. They are constantly contacted by people willing to pay them $50-125 an hour and naturally their hourly rate keeps climbing.

But go on and tell me how upwork is too saturated and you can't make any real money on there

 

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[Argue]

This thread is what winning looks like.

 

[thinkandgrowrich]

You guys are ridiculous for thinking I'm lying.

4 months of training and its a guaranteed 80k-180k job depending on whether or not you have prior experience. Sounds crazy right? Only because you haven't seen it.

Rather than p'ming me and asking for information you guys just claim I'm lying as though I have some evil motive or because I wanna impress people on an internet forum lol.

The only thing that sucks about the whole thing is that its a job, and I for one hate jobs. But the opportunity exists, believe what you wanna its your life.

 

[Mr.Chaos]

You guys are ridiculous for thinking I'm lying.

4 months of training and its a guaranteed 80k-180k job depending on whether or not you have prior experience. Sounds crazy right? Only because you haven't seen it.

Rather than p'ming me and asking for information you guys just claim I'm lying as though I have some evil motive or because I wanna impress people on an internet forum lol.

The only thing that sucks about the whole thing is that its a job, and I for one hate jobs. But the opportunity exists, believe what you wanna its your life.

The knowledge is always more valuable than the money.

But back on topic....less talk more action.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

You guys are ridiculous for thinking I'm lying.

I don't believe you are lying.

You're just "uber" delusional. There's a difference.

And now, you've been banned from replying any further in this thread.

Back on topic.

 

[JAJT]

And now, you've been banned from replying any further in this thread.

Huh, had no idea that was possible on forums.

That's a pretty cool feature.

 

[KCErnest]

That was more than two months ago, and because I've already experienced all this and seen how it all works, wouldn't you agree that my opinion would have some merit to it?

The amount of time spent doing all this is not worth it, espiecially with the menial amounts of money that comes along with it.

You could use the time you spend doing this hitting up legitimate businesses and making 100 times more than what you would make on Upwork, if you're already doing all that then more power to you.

Like I said, I can spend a few months putting in some work and getting a 100k+ job, 75k at the very least, and I would be using the same amount of time that someone would spend on Upwork doing menial jobs and trying to establish themselves.

No hate, you're very talented at what you do, I'm just speaking truth and offering a different perspective.

Just because its not a job doesn't mean its Fastlane.

I'm very much looking forward to your execution thread showcasing your value and expertise at securing large deals in a short amount of time. What this forum needs is more people like you that do instead of talk and stay in the slowlane. Please link your execution thread so that I can follow you and learn from your incredible knowledge.

Thanks!

 

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[CONCARL]

I look forward to all of Sinister's videos/posts too.

 

[jmomcc]

You guys are ridiculous for thinking I'm lying.

4 months of training and its a guaranteed 80k-180k job depending on whether or not you have prior experience. Sounds crazy right? Only because you haven't seen it.

Rather than p'ming me and asking for information you guys just claim I'm lying as though I have some evil motive or because I wanna impress people on an internet forum lol.

The only thing that sucks about the whole thing is that its a job, and I for one hate jobs. But the opportunity exists, believe what you wanna its your life.

I never even accused you of lying. My advice was genuine. If you know how to get a 80-180k job with 4 months of training, you are sitting on a literal goldmine. I'm not sure how you construed that as an accusation of lying. That is just fact.

 

[Chema]

@SinisterLex In less than a week I've managed to make a client

Made the first job inside Upwork to get 5-stars and now I'm working out, about 65$ in total, not bad for the time i'm dedicating to it value I'm giving in exchange, thank you so much bro!

Rep transfered, I owe you one

 

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[InspireHD]

Quick question. I got an invitation yesterday for a $5 project that is basically talking on the phone to someone for 2-5 minutes and then you answer a questionnaire. From my understanding, it is a call center quality control call -- so I think I'll be talking to someone at a call center to make sure they are polite and whatever else. I'm a little suspicious of giving out a phone number, but it sounds like a pretty easy $5. The 30+ reviews all give it high reviews.

My hold up is mainly giving out my phone number due to privacy issues and them possibly creating a list of phone numbers for future use. Any thoughts?

 

[Lex DeVille]

Quick question. I got an invitation yesterday for a $5 project that is basically talking on the phone to someone for 2-5 minutes and then you answer a questionnaire. From my understanding, it is a call center quality control call -- so I think I'll be talking to someone at a call center to make sure they are polite and whatever else. I'm a little suspicious of giving out a phone number, but it sounds like a pretty easy $5. The 30+ reviews all give it high reviews.

My hold up is mainly giving out my phone number due to privacy issues and them possibly creating a list of phone numbers for future use. Any thoughts?

I can't tell you what to do. If something makes me uncomfortable on Upwork, I usually skip it.

 

[InspireHD]

I can't tell you what to do. If something makes me uncomfortable on Upwork, I usually skip it.

Very well. I tend to be overly cautious sometimes so it was more of checking to see if I was being irrational. I was battling between the privacy concerns, etc. and the opportunity for easy money. Thanks. I think I'll pass.

 

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[wade1mil]

My hold up is mainly giving out my phone number due to privacy issues and them possibly creating a list of phone numbers for future use. Any thoughts?

Get a Google voice number and forward it to your phone.

 

[Sadik]

I read the last few argument posts and I wanted to make one small point. Upwork IS slowlane. It is not fastlane. You are still trading time for money, however high your rates be or however easy it is for you to make money off it. Of course, Lex has never implied (from whatever his posts I have read) that Upwork / Freelancing online is fastlane. But teaching people how to succeed at Upwork CAN be fastlane, as all who have read book would know.

I love this thread and Lex is doing a great job here, I can vouch from experience that his methods are perfect for Freelancing. I have been on Elance / Upwork for many many years so I am speaking from experience.

 

[Shamrox]

@SinisterLex I want to thank you for your previous thread (the original Odesk one). I only found it at the beginning of January when I finished reading FLM.

I didn't let the fact that your thread was fairly old stop me. In fact, it didn't even occur to me that the market may have been "saturated" by then. I started a profile years ago when it was known as Freelance (here in the U.K anyway) and that attitude killed any hope of success back then. Not this time baby! This time I know it's all about attitude. "The gravy train has already gone" is just another excuse.

The market is saturated! People only want to pay a few $ for a lot of work! Yadee yadee ya... That's all BS!

I CAN and therefore I WILL, regardless of all you naysaying MFs.

In January, the plan was to start with some cheap work (transcribing, blog posts, $5/per hour stuff, etc.), build a reputation while learning a little about copywriting in preparation for bigger $$ later down the line (read ca$hvertising as you recommended, etc).

I followed your advice in your previous thread and created a profile that told clients what value I will give them. I barely wrote anything about myself. It's all about the customer.

I then went off and created a website, posted a few blog articles (I still post 1 or 2 a week to keep it alive - they take about 30 minutes each), and linked back to it in my Upwork profile. That way I can show prospective customers what value I will give. I'm blown away by how you did that work for free. That was allowing the customer to experience the value you could give. What a stroke of genius. Duly noted.

Anyway, back to my story. Here's the crazy part...

I didn't get anywhere with my first few proposals. Then we had our second kid and a big writing project took over. The plan was to go try Upwork again in May once things calmed down. But, what do you know? Last week a customer contacted me out of the blue and asked me to write a few blog posts for them. Let me say that again... THEY contacted ME... a guy with a new profile, no track record and $0 earned on the platform. Why? Because he saw how I could add value based on my profile alone...

In other words, I got my first Upwork job ($200) by executing your advice.

It's not big bucks but it's a MASSIVE springboard, especially since it will also add a mountain of experience to my portfolio, which in turn will attract higher value customers.

Every post you put up in your last thread had something in common. They almost always ended with JUST DO IT! All those negative BS machines out there have something in common too. None of them have gotten off their asses and Just Done It. I used to be one of them. But no longer. I'm 30, have a beautiful wife and two young kids, and need to be enjoying time with them, not exchanging it all for money. I mean... I give you 5 days you give me 2? WTF?

Once again, thank you for inspiring confidence and explaining what it takes to JUST DO IT! The best part is, it's so fricking simple! Hard work. But more straightforward than the machine will have you believe.

Upwork isn't the route I want to go down permanently, but I now have an income stream (which in a very short time will become a significant income) that will help fund other ventures. And as has already been mentioned, if everything else goes south, there's always something to fall back on. BOOM!

As a side note, it blows my mind to see naysayers on this forum (though they are few and far between and usually post once or twice before fading off into obscurity). Haven't these people read MJ's book?

And, to anyone who isn't doing it already, listen to Lex and all the other legends on here.

JUST DO IT!!!

 

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[Lex DeVille]

A few days ago my client asked about how I prefer to get paid and suggested $25 increments for every 5 social media posts they use. They also asked for a minor adjustment to one of the photos I sent. It was the perfect opportunity to bring up feedback and secure my first 5 stars. Here's how I did it...

"I'll have the logo adjustment back to you in just a bit. Also, I'm fine with $25 idea. One question - once we reach the first $25, would you be okay closing out the first contract and leaving feedback? That will help me soooooo much to pick up clients because feedback is super important. After that we could do an ongoing contract with milestones so you don't need to close them out again and again."

Notice how I stressed the importance of feedback without asking for 5 stars. I planted a seed in the mind about what might happen to me if I don't get good feedback because it's very important. Notice also how I added value for the client at the end of my request. The result is below.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Picked up a 3rd client right after making my latest Upwork video.

Here's a look at my stats after 1 week on Upwork from scratch...



Seems I get viewed as much as others. Interviewed less than others. Hired wayyy more than others. Applied to 14 jobs, so that's an average of 2 per day. Got hired for 3 so that's a new client for every 4.7 applications. Also here's something interesting from the most recent client. He wanted an expert but listed a $5.00 price. Notice my proposed rate...





And here's where we settled...




Someone asked on YouTube last night what's an appropriate rate per 100 words for a project that will be 2500 to 3500 words, because they don't want to ask for too much and lose the client. My response was an appropriate rate is whatever you've got the guts to try.

If it doesn't work, so what. Get a new client. Try again.

I can't tell you what to set your rates at. I don't even charge per word because for me that's a waste of time. But I'm not at your skill level, and I'm not afraid of taking risks. I find ways to be valuable for clients, then command the price I want based on that value. If they don't want to pay, no problem. I'll be valuable to someone else who will.

Oh, and also I got 2 invitations my first week, but declined both of them because they weren't a fit for me.

 

[Waspy]

And here's where we settled

I think this happens way more often than you think. I've only posted a handful of jobs on upwork, but I intentionally lowball my budget. I have found that people will simply match my budget no matter what I'm asking for. Anyone matching my very low budget is automatically excluded because clearly they haven't paid any attention to the work required (and probably haven't even read the brief). So the offers that come in closer to what I would expect (usually close to double my budget) are the ones I pay attention to.

It's kinda an easy way of shortlisting for me...

 

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[Fox]

Great information on pricing from both sides. Thanks @SinisterLex and @Waspy

 

[Johnson504]

This is awesome! I can't wait to see what happens. Personally I started with freelancing in 2014 and it took some time, but not that long, to find some great gigs. The big thing is that I had to sort through all the spam jobs (I had someone offer me $20-$30 an hour for data entry, ummm, SCAM). Anyway, after only 6 months of freelancing, and making decent money, I landed a full time gig and I have been doing that for almost 2 years now. I am using the money from that to fund my business! I agree, you can get decent work on UpWork. Looking forward to seeing your progress, and thanks for sharing.

 

[Lex DeVille]

I turned a piece of work in this morning. A few hours later a response popped up on my phone and it freaked the sh*t out of me, because I thought I was about to get an earful of YOU SUCK! It started, "Lex. Warning, this is going to be kind of a long message..." you can read the rest below.



It took me two days to write this guy's product description.

This is over-delivering.

But what does it really say?

1. My writing is worth every penny of what I pitched him.

2. He's going to give me good feedback.

3. When we first talked, he asked if my proposed rate was the best I could do. I told him if he just needs 2 product descriptions, I can do them for $35 this time and if he needs more later on I can offer a packaged deal for a higher number of descriptions at a better fixed rate for him.

Now that I've proven myself, he's comfortable offering more work. So I might ask for 10 product descriptions next time and give him a price of $33 per description. It's barely lower than what he's paying now, and I'll ask for payment up front. That way, I'll secure more money faster than if I just let him do 1 or 2 at a time, and he'll save money over the long-run, which is important for smaller startups. So it's valuable for both of us.

10 descriptions at $33 = $330 which would put me almost halfway to $1,000 in my first month, which is half of a full-time earner's monthly income for a $24k/year salary.

 

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[snappyhappy]

I think this happens way more often than you think. I've only posted a handful of jobs on upwork, but I intentionally lowball my budget. I have found that people will simply match my budget no matter what I'm asking for. Anyone matching my very low budget is automatically excluded because clearly they haven't paid any attention to the work required (and probably haven't even read the brief). So the offers that come in closer to what I would expect (usually close to double my budget) are the ones I pay attention to.

It's kinda an easy way of shortlisting for me...

That's interesting! As a freelancer, when I see a job posted with a budget that is way below the rate I'd expect, I assume the client is just looking for the cheapest freelancer and doesn't appreciate the value of good copy, so I don't apply.

 

[Guest24480]

It's been a year since I tried this but I'm technically 1 for 1 on Upwork hires. Sent 1 proposal and got hired on an "over-saturated" job without any previous experience. All I did was follow Lex's advice by catering my proposal to the job listing and outlining what I thought the client wanted to hear.

I decided to revisit it again today by sending out a proposal for an ongoing article writing job. They asked for my rate per 1k words in the proposal so I thought ahh what the heck - let's test the limits here. I wrote out what I thought was the best cover letter I could muster and with no writing experience on Upwork I wrote down that my rate was $50. It's a long shot, but who knows what could happen when you sell yourself high?

Now we wait..