Why I Left RD Forums

[EasyMoney_in_NC]

I haven't seen the post about the car vs investing... but that is a common question from people that are just starting. I think it is a valid concern (like: should I pay my debt first or make my first investment) so I don't have a problem with those.

I hope you don't mind that I disagree with that idea If you have to ask a question like "should I blow a bunch of money on a car I can't really afford" Then you clearly aren't in a mindset that is conducive to investing or sharing investment ideas (which is what this place is about......no?). You shouldn't have to ask a question like that. Once one has gotten past the mature point of doing what is right, then you come to a place like this to share growth ideas. Having said that, we all have our hobbies, but we can afford our hobbies because of our hard work.

just my 2 cents.

 

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[andviv]

I don't mind that at all, actually I like these conversations as they help me to see different points of view...
I'll be very happy if we can help somebody to avoid a big financial mistake like that. But again, to each its own... people act according to their priorities in life. Many people believe that we are here on earth just to have fun no matter what, so let's put all our energy and efforts on buying/using what we want NOW. Is that incorrect or wrong? in my opinion, yes, it is financially irresponsible. But that does not mean I am right or the other person is right. This is not a black and white topic as it is very subjective, IMO.

Of course, we all here agree that this forum is a place to talk about improving our financial and investment knowledge. But that is just our perspective. Many people do believe that we here are dead wrong and are just a bunch of greedy, selfish people, that only care about having more money (I realized about this when reading Andrew's blog and people made comments like that about this forum).

So these conversations about spending now in something I can't afford but really really want are useful for those that are in the middle, not sure about what path to follow. That's why I don't want to discourage them, unless they become repetitive and those posts don't provide anything positive anymore.

What do you think?

 

[EasyMoney_in_NC]

What do I think......hmmm.........

Well............., where I can see your point about helping someone as it pertains to making a big financial mistake, I would equate that more to helping keep someone from buying a swamp, not a sports car that most likely can be "afforded" anyway. Following me? A question about whether to make you first life altering financial decision, should not include a sports car IMO, that to me is an immature and junior question that to me speaks volumes about the mental "place" an individual is. Now, if some of the known regulars here said...."I'm looking at buying a toy and its between a Porsche and a Ferrari, what should I do?" Well then to me, thats a hard decision that we chat about light heartedly, some maybe more than others with various degrees of envy But its not a life altering choice (most likely) and isn't predicated with " I'm still in my teens and worked my tail off to amass a bunch of money, should I blow it on a car?".......AHHHHH.....WHAT?
That's the way I'm seeing it. To me this site has represented more than the average in quality topics/opinions/solid information. I just don't want to see it become another "chat board" for mindless.........chatter.
Ya know, no offense to anyone including the poster of the thread I have in mind, I just think that people that are here/come here are on a much higher level.....thats all. And I say that knowing we all started off somewhere

 

[Diane Kennedy]

Easy -

I do see your point. My opinion only, but it seems like one of the drawbacks to virtual communication is that we don't really see each other and so can't pick up the hundred of other cues. In some ways that's great, because I'm learning from people I probably wouldn't normally meet and I'm very grateful to know them here. On the other hand, if someone asks about buying a Porsche, it's hard to know whether it's a stupid idea (ie...buy an asset or a car) or whether it's a decision that has nothing to do with the money - just the features.

Something very similar just happened to me in another thread. I am a Mac user and just posted the question about whether anyone had comments about the MacBook Air. I got some great responses that helped me make the decision - again, not based on price but features. In fact, one poster brought up a technical issue I hadn't considered.

Then someone brought up the age old question of why they cost so much. I've heard that one ad nauseum. I don't mean to be elitist with a "if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it" type of attitude, but I think I've got enough of a proven track record to know when i can afford a luxury and when I need to hunker down and get some investments. But, someone else might not know that. And so, I suppose advise to get a cheaper PC and give up some of the benefits I want might make sense...for someone else.

Not sure if that's the kind of thing you're talking about Easy, but if it is, I feel your pain.

The issue I see is that people need and want different types of advice based on where they are. As the forum grows, you can't keep track of who is who and so you might inadvertently give advice to someone where it's completely not applicable.

I was just thinking about the number of times that you and I have had long back and forth posts - sometimes agreeing, some not. But I know you're a successful business owner and investor, so I worry less when you make a decision that I might not agree with. That's because I know you know what you're doing and can make your own informed decisions.

By the way, whatever happened with your other business with your dad? Did you sell it?

 

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[Allthingznew]

and when I need to hunker down

Im sorry, my dad used this phrase, and I'm guilty too, but as I was reading I got a visual..cuz my dad always "hunkered" when he said it... :smilielol:

 

[yveskleinsky]

I can understand the frustration and concern of the more advanced investors. Even though I am not one of them (yet) I also don't want to sort through a lot of posts to get to the meat of the topic. ...Maybe there could be a feature kinda like the speedway forum, (locked unless you have certain speed) but it would be for advanced investors- and could be tagged as a read only post for begining and junior investors. Of course, the advanced investors could always comment on the beginning or junior posts/threads. Just a thoughts- that would help keep the more advanced topics uncluttered.

You guys really are doing a knock out job with this site, and I am always impressed with how sincere and helpful everyone is.

 

[Yankees338]

I can understand the frustration and concern of the more advanced investors. Even though I am not one of them (yet) I also don't want to sort through a lot of posts to get to the meat of the topic. ...Maybe there could be a feature kinda like the speedway forum, (locked unless you have certain speed) but it would be for advanced investors- and could be tagged as a read only post for begining and junior investors. Of course, the advanced investors could always comment on the beginning or junior posts/threads. Just a thoughts- that would help keep the more advanced topics uncluttered.

I was thinking about something like this, too. However, the Speedway hasn't had much use yet, so I don't think it'd make sense to grow it until it begins to get used more regularly.

 

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[yveskleinsky]

Maybe I wasn't clear, I didn't mean literally use the speedway for advanced investors. I meant, create a "locked" site for advanced investors. ...The speedway forum is good, but my .02 is that it was designed to talk more in-depth about business/RE ideas- (which can currently be discussed elsewhere) and if anyone has an idea that they aren't discussing in the other areas, they probably won't bring it up in the speedway as they don't want everyone to read about what they are doing without signing an NDA.

 

[andviv]

probably what Yankees is talking about is that there is already a forum for that:


The Speedway - Private Forum
Private forum to discuss private business topics. You must have at least 150 speed points (25mph) to access this forum.

 

[yveskleinsky]

I get that- but what I'm saying is to have an area that is for advanced investors on the different topics- stocks, REI, etc. not just for business ideas - and have it tagged where it is like a sticky- you need a certain level of experience (not rep points) to post. If you don't have the experience, you can still access the posts, you can only read 'em.

 

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[EasyMoney_in_NC]

I was just thinking about the number of times that you and I have had long back and forth posts - sometimes agreeing, some not. But I know you're a successful business owner and investor, so I worry less when you make a decision that I might not agree with. That's because I know you know what you're doing and can make your own informed decisions.

By the way, whatever happened with your other business with your dad? Did you sell it?

Decided to blow Mr. Buyer off (our busy season was upon us......although never really came ) Decided to keep it, although that decision has had me second guessing lately (as noted the season never came and ruined our end of year #'s) as to whether a bird in the hand......... It still made me $$ and I have people making for me, so I can't complain, but is the grass greener? Never know.
Thanks for asking though.

As for the discussions you and I have had. Sort of backs up my point/disappointment. We have never met in person, yet there is enough mutual respect (and I'm not ashamed to admit that you must only be WAY smarter than I, yet show nothing but respect) that you know when I post something, its because I (as a reasonably successful person) truly have an issue......
I think you would understand where I'm coming from if you had read the post. I don't want to flame the young sole who wrote it, thats not been my intent. Only that this individual is not a "Fastlane" thinker when it needs to be asked if, at their pre-legal adult age, they should buy an expensive sports car with the money they worked so hard to amass. Now maybe the fact that they had the wherewithal to work hard and save this $$ is a commendable thing and a way of becoming "Fastlane", but then destroyed any hope of that with "should I buy the car?" That just blew it out of the water for me. I took the time to read a post of reasonable length only to have a turd dropped at my feet for my efforts. Which brings me back to my comment about not wanting to read through a bunch of crap to get to some real info.
I was, for a brief moment thinking "bravo" what an accomplishment for such a young age, and then.........
I would have been so much more......impressed and dare I say proud of this person, anyone at their age, if they had said that they bought a car with some proceeds they acquired from a sale of..........you get my point I'm sure.


As for Yves idea, the only problem I would see with the locked thing based on speed and points is A) this is a public forum and people shouldn't be locked out from learning something. And B) for people like me that for some reason aren't high on the speed limit, that could keep me out........................o.....r .......is thaaaat whats going on here :bgh:

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Decided to blow Mr. Buyer off (our busy season was upon us......although never really came ) Decided to keep it, although that decision has had me second guessing lately (as noted the season never came and ruined our end of year #'s) as to whether a bird in the hand......... It still made me $$ and I have people making for me, so I can't complain, but is the grass greener? Never know.
Thanks for asking though.

As for the discussions you and I have had. Sort of backs up my point/disappointment. We have never met in person, yet there is enough mutual respect (and I'm not ashamed to admit that you must only be WAY smarter than I, yet show nothing but respect) that you know when I post something, its because I (as a reasonably successful person) truly have an issue......
I think you would understand where I'm coming from if you had read the post. I don't want to flame the young sole who wrote it, thats not been my intent. Only that this individual is not a "Fastlane" thinker when it needs to be asked if, at their pre-legal adult age, they should buy an expensive sports car with the money they worked so hard to amass. Now maybe the fact that they had the wherewithal to work hard and save this $$ is a commendable thing and a way of becoming "Fastlane", but then destroyed any hope of that with "should I buy the car?" That just blew it out of the water for me. I took the time to read a post of reasonable length only to have a turd dropped at my feet for my efforts. Which brings me back to my comment about not wanting to read through a bunch of crap to get to some real info.
I was, for a brief moment thinking "bravo" what an accomplishment for such a young age, and then.........
I would have been so much more......impressed and dare I say proud of this person, anyone at their age, if they had said that they bought a car with some proceeds they acquired from a sale of..........you get my point I'm sure.


As for Yves idea, the only problem I would see with the locked thing based on speed and points is A) this is a public forum and people shouldn't be locked out from learning something. And B) for people like me that for some reason aren't high on the speed limit, that could keep me out........................o.....r .......is thaaaat whats going on here :bgh:

First let me preface that I understand what EasyNC is saying and certainly can understand the frustration. My point in starting this forum, aside from book promotion, was to help people learn about a "fastlane" -- for those already in it, near it, or striving for it. I started this forum as a venue to help change the thought processes of those willing to hear it. This post (about the sports car) is one such example of someone that we all can help "see the light". If you don't want to waste your time in fostering that process, I certainly understand.

I'm not sure what I'm suppose to do other than create a separate section for "Beginners" or "newbies". Banning or flaming such a post is counterproductive to the mission -- to help others "see the light".

Some of us are deep into the chapters of our lives, while others, are just starting on chapter 1. I think we should extend those folks a little grace.

As for the title of this thread "Why I left the RD Forums" ... I left because the inmates ran the asylum -- mostly everything was self-promotion, sig-pimpage, conspiracy theories, and other counterproductive topics that contributed NOTHING to the RD concepts. That environment does not exist here, despite our growth spurt.

If you aren't happy in reading the "Chapter 1" posts, I take full responsibility. It is my personal mission to help some of the folks understand the sacrifices needed to hit a fastlane. That one thread is a classic example.

That said, I am open to suggestions that are in line with the mission. Some have suggested a "Beginners Forum" which I will strongly consider.

~ MJ

 

[EasyMoney_in_NC]

Well, now that you've done what you've done (in creating the beast [this place]) you, at some point in time will come to a crossroads (if not already). Where I 100% agree that the "newbie", beginners whatever you call them, need a helping hand which is why they/we all come to these places, it would seem to me (as one who feels he's a pretty good reader of people/judge of character) that when you encounter someone that you feel isn't even ready to be here, is it worth the effort to foster?

For example, as a car guy, you may appreciate this (and I hope you are a car guy in the mechanical sense not just the "look what I can afford" type car guy), it would be like being at a tech session about how to rebuild a transmission and the guy next to you says "is a manual transmission the one that you shift or the one that shifts on its own?" and this after sitting there talking to him for (you fill in a time frame) without him having saying anything in response, only to find out he knows absolutely less than nothing.

That's the gist of my point in all this. If you don't know/understand/think even the most rudimentary thoughts, why are you here?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Unfounded judgments and stereotypes will often lead to poor conclusions. If you see at 400lb obese person at the gym, do you ask the same question? "Why the freak are they here? They obviously have no clue about exercise since they're so overweight".

My viewpoint is to cut the newbs a little slack because they are HERE ... just like that 400lb guy at the gym. However, if they walk in, do nothing and start eating Ben & Jerry's... they can be tossed.

I also suspect that since I cannot change the oil on my car, that I am not a "car guy" despite having followed the brand since I was in my teens.

Forums are all about "give and take" ... if its all "take" ... it doesn't work. Perhaps this place, errrrr, I mean *beast* isn't for you.

 

[EasyMoney_in_NC]

Oh, no, you have me all wrong. If I saw the 400lb'er at the gym, I would commend them for taking a stand and doing something about their place in life and their weight/health. If they were at the 31 Flavors shop buying a tub of ice cream, that tends to disturb me greatly.
I meant no offense as to whether or not you could work on your car or not, I was just trying to put things in terms I (and hoping you too) could relate to, so your not a mechanical carguy, thats fine since its not really relevant to the topic.

And lastly, I think if you look back at many of my previous posts, I give what I can, not just take.

Thanks

 

[Diane Kennedy]

Im sorry, my dad used this phrase, and I'm guilty too, but as I was reading I got a visual..cuz my dad always "hunkered" when he said it... :smilielol:

Yeah, sometimes my country upbringin' just pops out. I actually took speech classes to lose my accent when I first started in radio. I was raised in Oregon, but in an area with a lot of people who came from Oklahoma and Tennessee. People from our area have what is called an "Oregon drawl." It's very similar to a backwoods type Southern accent.

 

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[EasyMoney_in_NC]

Don't feel bad Dianne, my father uses the H word all the time. I think it has real time meaning. Now how you say it may be another issue , but I happen to like the word.

 

[Allthingznew]

My dad was born in Oklahoma! But he grew up in Ca. Still in the DNA I guess. Thanks for the visual anyway, I love my dad.

 

[PurEnergy]

Robert's putting on a seminar addressing ones attitude for $5k. I guess my attitude is bad because that's OUT. The most I've ever spent on any course is around $1k. I've gone to very good seminars for much less. And there are books and information on just about any topic you can think of now for less than $50 bucks. You can start all sorts of businesses these days for $5k.

Am I the only one who is not willing to fork this kind of money for something like this? I'm all for people self educating themself becuase we all know that the schools aren't going to do it. And I've spent in the neighborhood of about $1500 per college class in the past with the help from an employer. It just seems to me that it's so obvious that "these guys" are putting together this "stuff" simply to fill thier own pockets.

This isn't a rant. I am still ready and willing to pay a certain amount of money for my education. I just don't see the value in this sort of event at that price which more than likely will be paid by what's left of peoples credit cards. This is not the way to help OTHER people. :coco:

Feel free to disagree with me.

 

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[Russ H]

Purenergy-

It all depends.

If $5000 gets me a seat next to my congresswoman at an upcoming fundraiser, and I have an important $300M project to push (with lots of backing/heavy hitters, so they'll listen), then $5K is cheap for what I get.

If it's finding a mastermind group of like minded individuals from different walks of life that can form some kind of synergistic critical mass (see "Maui Millionaires"), then $25K seems like a pretty good deal to me, too.

If, however, I'm paying someone big bucks b/c I want to do something, but haven't had the DRIVE and MOTIVATION to get off my *ss-- and I think that spending $5K or $40K on some kind of pep talk/"master plan"/coaching is gonna flip the switch to "ON", well, I know myself better than that.

If I haven't done something (due to fear of failure, or analysis paralysis, or some other factor), throwing a lot of money at seminars and teachers ain't gonna get me going.

It's just gonna drain my bank account.

-Russ H.

 

[PurEnergy]

Hello Russ,

I believe the term "It depends" can be used in any situation where there is an option.

I am not trying to offend anyone. And as I stated I've paid plenty for the education that I have. Some good some bad. I will probably spend at least a few thousand more this year. I also have most of Roberts books and would spend the money 100X for a couple of them. It's his business and who am I to say what direction he takes it in.

I just think people need to be VERY selective as to where they spend thier money on education these days. It is buyer beware now more than ever.

Maybe I'm still a little uptight. I spent 1hr and 45min on the phone with Sprint today trying to resolve a two month old fraud issue. Somebody bought three phones on my account in November and it's still not resolved. As I'm into my second hour on the phone with them I see on the television that Sprint has lost 683,000 wireless customers and is laying off 4000 employees. I got disconnected at the 1hr and 45min mark. This is in addition to about 4 more hours on the phone over the last two months.

 

[Russ H]

PurEnergy-

I suppose I should have started out by saying that I agree with you.

No offense taken.

I have learned much from RK's books and earlier CDs/tapes. The man helped me see the world with different eyes. For that, I am grateful.

But Robert Kiysaki putting on a seminar about changing your attitude? Considering how he treated us last year, I find this both ironic, and delightfully amusing! :smx4:

-Russ H.

 

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[andviv]

We've discussed training and seminars in a couple of other threads here in the forum. Do a search and you can see the opinions over there, but in general terms we do agree.

The reason many pay any amount of money for any training is because they believe this will give them what they need. This seminar is not about technical knowledge, it is about 'drive' and 'motivation'. Problem is, nobody can give them that. It has to come from within.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

When is RK giving a seminar on "How to Give Seminars and Make Millions"? I think that is the one I would attend since that is the real Fastlane plan he is executing.

 

[mglshark]

My one seminar with RK was many years ago thru Learning Annex - 500 people jam in a room for a couple of hours listening to every word. Only thing I remember now was his jokes about being gay and going to jail. Not sure if he was trying to shock us or just his sense of humor. Don't shoot the messenger comes to mind, I might not like the person but the message is worthwhile. Even to this day listening to audio books by RK gets my mind thinking, maybe because they are general, inspirational, or subliminal, who knows, it works and I like it.

Yet I hear people on the radio that beat on him, they point out the flaws in the books (yes there are some), teaming up with Trump seminars, was he "rich", was there a "rich dad" and the whole "one size fits all" money recipes seminars (get rich quick in stocks / RE). Yes they are right on one level, yet missing the bigger picture overall.

I always like going to seminars just to hang out with other like minded people and feel good about myself and the direction I am going in. The price is right if I change my thinking and take action. A different class of people hang out at the higher buck ones then the freebies. Yet the people that need them the most can afford them the least.

Books are the cheapest source of info, then audio, manuals, videos and finally bootcamps / mentoring the highest bucks. Just more $$$$ means faster learning and use - hey I'm paying I'm using! The library and the web are free (like this forum) and really can give you the classroom education we all need. The other side is taking action, falling forward and learning from the school of hard knocks.

Since the web open up the used market for this specialize info (really cheap) through E bay / Amazon anybody can self educated and have $$$ left over to used for mentoring or to "do the deal". Think about it - 10 years ago we would spend big bucks to see the marketing giants at seminar like Dan Kennedy, Jay Abraham, Jeff Paul, Marc Ross, Carton, Hartunian, Legrand, etc. I just bought some used CDs, DVDs, MP3s, tapes and handouts for less then $200 total - 5 courses from different guru's including full bootcamps plus usual seminars, etc. with the bonus crap included.

Most of these guys I seen in person or listen to before but like the message they have.

Bottom line - the cost to go to one decent seminar for one day (without air fare, food or hotel) I get several different full courses to go through and pick want I need to know now. Heck, Jay Abraham course along is 35 CD's! One CD 3 and already got several ideas to help my attitude and my businesses.

I think the web has lowered the cost barrier for people to learn. As an avenue for revenue yes you can make money but don't depend on it by itself, too easy for people to either copy you or resell your info for cheap. That is why the guru's still tour (like rock bands) the internet alone cannot keep you living in style.


IMHO! Hope I did not rant too much -


mglsharkson

 

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[Russ H]

mglsharkson-

I *do* find value in books/tapes/CDs. I can replay/reread them, and get the message hammered home (it's hard for me to remember everything the first time I hear it).

But to me, taking a class on how to invest in RE or the stock market is kinda like taking a class on how to ride a bike, or play baseball. Sure, you can get some good info and pointers. But you're going to learn more-- and how to do it faster-- by getting on that bike or picking up the mitt and ball.

Looking at it from a different POV, you can take 100 courses on how to ride a bike, or play ball. But until you actually *do* it, you're not going anywhere.

Going to a high-priced seminar about getting motivated *does* put you in with a different group of people-- but the difference is just that they have the money to spend on the seminar, not in their actual motivation.

If they were truly motivated and executing their PLANs, they wouldn't be at these seminars-- they'd be too busy DOING.

-Russ H.

 

[mglshark]

Russ H -

I agree with most of your points - but often find people in the crowd doing deals often bigger then the seminar speaker. In one case I JV (joint venture) with another guy to give a new seminar to his group which in turn it grew into 3 new businesses spin offs over several years. Another case I JV with a RE guy (met thru RK cashflow board) which we flip several properties successfully during the RE bubble. And finally one seminar I got to speak and in turn was scoop up by another "doer" for his seminar groups.

In these cases these guys were "doer's" yet they go to seminars as well. But I understand your POV that doer's are too busy executing their plans to go to seminars yet I seem to find them. The seminars I pick are not generic stuff, more high end specialize stuff. Maybe the type of seminar attracts like minded people find each other through the ether which makes things happen. Finding people that want to start a bike factory to make money rather then talk about riding a bike for a fee. I do agree spending more money on how to ride a bike without actually doing it is a waste - look at the seminar junkies. Been there, done that.Rather be a seminar doer. Take more action,get feedback and really learn.

Generic seminar for "rah rah" I pass. Specialize info for business, marketing, web - will consider.

Anyway my thoughts,

mglsharkson

 

[Russ H]

mglsharkson-

Great points.

As someone who goes to seminars here and there, I understand your enthusiasm for them.

I don't go to network-- but I suppose sometimes it just happens.

That's how I met Diane Kennedy, and in a way, why she's here on the fastlane forums.

All b/c I went to a RK seminar in Sacramento (only one I've ever gone to) a few years back.

Until you made these points, I had never looked at it that way before.

-Russ H.

 

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[Midrange]

Kiyosaki is a joke....I'm glad people are seeing the light.

 

[Russ H]

Midrange-

I'd be a bit careful on these forums about throwing out comments like that.

Someone is likely to ask you to back up your words.

Hey, why not.

Here you are:

http://www.thefastlanetomillions.com/showthread.php?p=30683#post30683

-Russ H.