Today I made $500 without any effort

[pickeringmt]

Yeah, this is all a process - and any process needs a beginning.

Each experience brings new knowledge.

 

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[mt_myke]

lol, no he didn't. you don't add value to anything when you buy shares of a public traded company on the market.

I used to be pretty heavily into FX trading, and thought about this a lot. The value is added from the perspective of the market itself. The job of the market is to allocate resources efficiently. It does this by rewarding people who get it right. The snag for most people is, did they get it right by doing a difficult/unique analysis that others missed, or did they just guess and get lucky? To the market, it doesn't matter. The traders who get it right add value to the market, regardless of how they made their trading decisions. As a reward they get more money (capital, resources to allocate) and get to stay in the game. Those who get it wrong have to quit playing. Much like evolution, this is a very simple yet stunningly effective solution because it externalizes the hard part entirely and focuses only on making sure there's a feedback cycle that rewards whatever inputs led to the most optimal outcomes. It's also why so many decades of research into "the market" are mostly fruitless...the market is a trivial machine, the source of inputs are where all the depth, complexity, and sophistication lie.

 

[mt_myke]

Going to a casino and making an educated stock investment are not the same thing at all. Yes, if you where to pick a random ticker symbol and blindly invest in one you see, than that would be the exact same thing as going to Casino- but that is not what OP did. Fundamental analysis is a great way to pick stocks- he was educated on the company, and he invested wisely and made money.

In an efficient market it should make no difference at all...any information about the stock/company is already reflected in its current price. You can't both believe in efficient markets and believe that you can gain an "edge" with fundamental analysis of public information (secret information is another matter).

 

[daivey]

If you previously used to buy useless crap with the money your invested, then it's taking action.


Seriously dude, you're giving my post more importance than needed. I was simply stating a fact. Instead of wanting the object, I wanted to GAIN from the sales of the object (indirectly), and I did.

I'll reply only to your question why I sold: because I aimed at $500. No more, no less. I got what I wanted, and AAPL stock increased even further.
I sold at ~$110 what someone can sell today at ~$113. And my $500 are going to something more "interesting".

but you're not invested. you're gambling/speculating. you didn't take action, you faked action, the result was profit and therefore you've convinced yourself that you're taking action in some deluded way.

 

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[daivey]

Dude, you turned this thread into a chance to talk down to someone about a personal accomplishment.

There are better ways to feel good about yourself.

what personal accomplishment though? that instead of buying for consumption he gambled for profit?

 

[daivey]

To be fair, I don't think he's trying to talk down to me. At least I hope, otherwise yes he's a dick.
It seems to me that he's reasoning from a more fastlane-zealot perspective. He is right in saying that what I did is not fastlane per se. However, he's failing to see that the post has to do with mindset (investing instead of spending) and the concept of known-knowledge (the individual knows more than what he think he does, but unless he willfully act upon such knowledge then it's worthless). He is also failing to see that I never claimed to be in fastlane.

On the contrary I'm not coming from a fastlane zealot perspective at all. You're posting how you had this sudden mind-set change. The premise of your post is that instead of spending $500 on an Iphone, you went and gambled $5,000 on AAPL stock. Because AAPL stock went up and you made profit of $500, you decided to come back here and brag about your accomplishment. What if that took 5 years to accomplish and that $5000 was tied up for five years to make it? Because you made a quick buck you're reading that as "success' and that you've really made changes in your life. And I'm saying to you, you haven't. This is like a false reading that gotten to your head.

Then all of the other people that read your post decided to join in in the circle jerk of appreciation and say to you "wow great job" you're on track bro. The problem is that you're not on track to anything - that's what the scary thing is. You're getting positive reinforcement to a negative reading but are going with it. What you did was not investing. What you did was speculating, or in a way gambling, but you think that you didn't gamble because you applied "known-knowledge" to your advantage. The problem is the stock market doesn't work like that. Stocks don't just go up on "known knowledge", but you think because you profited that it does.

Then you make this gem "the individual knows more than what he think he does, but unless he willfully act upon such knowledge then it's worthless" really, so how did you know more than you thought you did??? Again a FALSE reading. You think because the stock went up that you knew more than you thought you did and so by action you go to profit from that knowledge. But again you got lucky.

Its not about Fastlane at all - in fact you're the one that said "have you even read TMF ", I never brought that up. You didn't post any process, or anything, and then it's in the investing forum. So it's like, you could at least post some useful info about why you made the choices you did.

 

[SBS.95]

Then all of the other people that read your post decided to join in in the circle jerk of appreciation and say to you "wow great job" you're on track bro. The problem is that you're not on track to anything - that's what the scary thing is.

Holy shit you are a douche. Calm the hell down. Stop taking his post so seriously. He's not claiming to be the next Warren Buffet, nor is anyone calling him that.

Instead of dropping $500 on a new iPhone, he invested it and made $500 profit. He's going to use that $500 for an LLC for a real business. A real fastlane business. This thread was never meant to be an example of a fastlane business.

If you can't see why that's a good thing, I don't know what you're doing on here. Plenty of people on this thread are quality contributors, and you're trying to put them down like they're enabling a heroine addict. Christ almighty, know when you're acting like a shithead, apologize, then excuse yourself. Your attitude reminds me of 16-year-old-me, and that guy needed a slap.

 

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[mt_myke]

Instead of dropping $500 on a new iPhone, he invested it and made $500 profit.

OK, in the interest of abating the hate, I think I see what's going on here. Everyone other than Daivey is seeing this as "instead of spending $500, I made $500", and focusing on that, and pretty much not thinking/responding/caring about the OP's claim that the $500 was made by "investing". They're just stoked that someone is making money instead of spending it. Daivey is freaking out because he (correctly) sees that this was NOT an investment but instead a lucky gamble - speculation. So, good on OP for making $500 - but you did NOT invest, you make a quick buck on a lucky gamble. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I've made tens of thousands doing the same in Forex (and then lost most, though not all, of it exactly the same way). You just need to be clear about what actually transpired.

 

[SBS.95]

OK, in the interest of abating the hate, I think I see what's going on here. Everyone other than Daivey is seeing this as "instead of spending $500, I made $500", and focusing on that, and pretty much not thinking/responding/caring about the OP's claim that the $500 was made by "investing". They're just stoked that someone is making money instead of spending it. Daivey is freaking out because he (correctly) sees that this was NOT an investment but instead a lucky gamble - speculation. So, good on OP for making $500 - but you did NOT invest, you make a quick buck on a lucky gamble. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I've made tens of thousands doing the same in Forex (and then lost most, though not all, of it exactly the same way). You just need to be clear about what actually transpired.

We can play the semantics game all day long. If it's not a long term plan, it's not really investing. Okay so he's speculating, and some people are calling investing. My counter-argument is- BFD. The point of this thread wasn't to talk about getting into investments. He made an easy $500 by (correctly) predicting Apple stock. And he's sharing that he's going to use the profits to establish an LLC. Good for him, let's all congratulate him, and then be on our ways.

I think you guys are simply reading way too much into this thread. He made $500 and he's excited and going to use the money for his business.

By the way if you were going to argue this post, your way is the way of doing it. I don't consider what you're saying "hate". What I don't understand is your decision to align yourself with daivey, where every post is a cesspool of hate and negativity. The dude is more sour than a toilet bowl in Sierra Leone right now.

 

[mt_myke]

What I don't understand is your decision to align yourself with daivey, where every post is a cesspool of hate and negativity. The dude is more sour than a toilet bowl in Sierra Leone right now.

I don't align with or support Daivey...it's more like the empathy Frodo feels for Gollum. Trading is psychologically brutal and I've seen many people end up in a bad mental place like Daivey. I'm ashamed to say I've been there myself and have lashed out in a similar manner. It's one of the reasons I got out of trading (the main one being I concluded there wasn't much point in doing it). I was hoping to get Daivey to understand that the rest of the group doesn't care about the distinction between investing and trading, and the rest of the group to understand why Daivey was getting so upset about their casual use of the term "investing".

 

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[ZCP]

This needs to be in 'Mindset, Motivation, Choices' to be the feel good 'instead of spending money, I made money' thread that I thought it was.

Didn't realize this was posted in the 'Investing and Trading' section. Needs to be moved or @daivey needs rep for calling a spade a spade.

 

[Writer]

On the contrary I'm not coming from a fastlane zealot perspective at all. You're posting how you had this sudden mind-set change. The premise of your post is that instead of spending $500 on an Iphone, you went and gambled $5,000 on AAPL stock. Because AAPL stock went up and you made profit of $500, you decided to come back here and brag about your accomplishment. What if that took 5 years to accomplish and that $5000 was tied up for five years to make it? Because you made a quick buck you're reading that as "success' and that you've really made changes in your life. And I'm saying to you, you haven't. This is like a false reading that gotten to your head.

Then all of the other people that read your post decided to join in in the circle jerk of appreciation and say to you "wow great job" you're on track bro. The problem is that you're not on track to anything - that's what the scary thing is. You're getting positive reinforcement to a negative reading but are going with it. What you did was not investing. What you did was speculating, or in a way gambling, but you think that you didn't gamble because you applied "known-knowledge" to your advantage. The problem is the stock market doesn't work like that. Stocks don't just go up on "known knowledge", but you think because you profited that it does.

Then you make this gem "the individual knows more than what he think he does, but unless he willfully act upon such knowledge then it's worthless" really, so how did you know more than you thought you did??? Again a FALSE reading. You think because the stock went up that you knew more than you thought you did and so by action you go to profit from that knowledge. But again you got lucky.

Its not about Fastlane at all - in fact you're the one that said "have you even read TMF ", I never brought that up. You didn't post any process, or anything, and then it's in the investing forum. So it's like, you could at least post some useful info about why you made the choices you did.

Just have a beer and chill.

 

[Writer]

Didn't realize this was posted in the 'Investing and Trading' section. Needs to be moved or @daivey needs rep for calling a spade a spade.

Investing:
expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture.

 

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[mt_myke]

This needs to be in 'Mindset, Motivation, Choices' to be the feel good 'instead of spending money, I made money' thread that I thought it was.

Didn't realize this was posted in the 'Investing and Trading' section. Needs to be moved or @daivey needs rep for calling a spade a spade.

Bit of a forum design problem here...if you click on the newest/most popular/etc post links at the top of the main page you don't actually know what category they came from. The URL doesn't show you either. There may be a way to tell directly from the thread but it's certainly not obvious. Most of the time it won't matter but here's a good example of a situation where it does.

 

[Writer]

No issue if @MJ DeMarco or any of the mods want to move this thread, or even close it. It went way out of hand compared to what I wanted to when I wrote the original post.

 

[mt_myke]

Investing:
expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or by using it to develop a commercial venture.

I'm surely going to come off as a huge jerk for doing this but:

spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: speculation; plural noun: speculations

1. 1.
   the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
   "there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"
2. 2.
   investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.
   "the company's move into property speculation"

This actually speaks volumes about why the "typical, average person" often sees buying stocks as gambling...the general use definitions of the words "investing" and "speculation" are basically interchangeable, in this case speculation is literally defined as investment.

 

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[daivey]

lol im not upset or angry at anyone

i just find it amusing that OP posts this in the investing sub forum to brag how he gambled and made $500 and suddenly that means his mindset is in the right place. rather than passing a long some investment knowledge.

 

[Writer]

lol im not upset or angry at anyone

i just find it amusing that OP posts this in the investing sub forum to brag how he gambled and made $500 and suddenly that means his mindset is in the right place. rather than passing a long some investment knowledge.

Believe and feel what you want. But there was no bragging.

 

[Writer]

I'm surely going to come off as a huge jerk for doing this but:

spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: speculation; plural noun: speculations

1. 1.
   the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
   "there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"
2. 2.
   investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with the risk of loss.
   "the company's move into property speculation"

This actually speaks volumes about why the "typical, average person" often sees buying stocks as gambling...the general use definitions of the words "investing" and "speculation" are basically interchangeable, in this case speculation is literally defined as investment.

Ahah... I truly enjoyed your reply. Well played!

 

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[RHL]

you didn't post any process, or anything

What's your fastlane? All this vitriol, I'm expecting a fully fledged manufacturing business with utility and design patents and a large number of high-volume retail accounts.

 

[daivey]

What's your fastlane? All this vitriol, I'm expecting a fully fledged manufacturing business with utility and design patents and a large number of high-volume retail accounts.

i never pretended to be anything that i am not.

but i do invest. aka not gamble.


but now that you mentioned it, I decided today not to spend $5 on a big mac and bought some scratch tickets. See i figured i dont need the junk food but can try to make some cashola.

 

[ddall]

OP is a young guy (assumption), happy with the outcome of his investment (lets say instead of spending 500, he purchased 5K of APPLE stock), recently read TFLM and came to the forum to share his enthusiasm for the results (10% roi) he garnered. A

That's great, and a good job on making the decision to avoid instant gratification for a device only somewhat improved over last years. Also unlauded in this thread was his action in taking profit and not greedily hanging on as so many are apt to do.

That being said, the best thing OP can hear is the cold, albeit correct, comparisons made by daivey. It should be the imperative of older more experienced entrepreneurs and business owners to clarify and help guide younger ones to the actual truth, and spare too much flattery which can lead them down a path filled with false confidence. The fact is, investing in a single stock is anything but fastlane. There is no control, barrier to entry (besides money), etc. More importantly, there are programs and algorithms trading stocks in miliseconds based on more information than a single normal human can consumer, forget what the SCC says is legal. Pursuant to this, inside info is where the real edge in the game of investing comes from, and believe the big investors hob knob and shake hands with company execs all the time, there is a network of interaction the average investor is never privy too.

Investing in a single stock is far far from fast lane. The pithy information (relative to what those in the know are aware of) gleamed online was built into the price long before you read it (and long in stocks is seconds). My education is in finance and investing, and I will share that stocks have an extremely small role in my fastlane roadmap. Also, to clarify, OP invested it is wagered 5000 not 500 given apples recent stock prices. That would mean on his 500 investment sans iphone 6, he had a return of $50.

It is truly a disservice to see others jump down daivey's throat when the clarification and cold water he is dumping on the young entrepreneur is likely the best medicine he can get. Tough love.

OP, you are in the right place, and indeed yearly iphone purchases are an excellent example of sidewalk mentality, good for you for seeing that, and for reading the book, and trying to take action. Just be aware investing is more than just reading the news, and has an unlimited downside (to zero) if not done correctly.

 

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[Writer]

This thread has definitely reached an importance level way higher than what I expected.
First of all, I never claimed to be in the fast lane, actually I claimed the opposite. In my first post I actually wrote “Yeah, it’s not much, it’s not fastlane, it’s nothing great.” I am the first one to admit that the fast lane is still on my left, so please stop putting words in my mouth. I also added that it’s nothing great for a reason, which is that I realize how small the actual action was.
The reason of my post was twofold. First and foremost, to show a change of mentality. For example, I still love Apple but I want to buy less of their stuff. This translates in more money availability. I think that this first point was understood by everyone, so there’s no need to dig further from my part.
The second is about the information. @daivey keeps calling my small investment a gamble, only because in his opinion I haven’t analyzed the data or whatever he feels necessary. This is captious as much as it can be. No one, and I mean no one, can deny that investing in any kind of stock is a bit of a gamble. You may study all the charts you want, but if Obama wakes up on the wrong side and says that he’s not happy about the economy outlook, most likely you’re going to lose money. If a Saudi coughs the wrong word about oil prices, most likely you’re going to lose money. If a statistic is released you might lose money. There are things outside of your control, even if you’re Warren Buffet (as shown by his recent mega-loss with IBM). June 2008 everyone was studying charts on the next investment, fast-forward a few months later and everyone was studying survival and minimalist living guides. Whenever you invest, there is a gamble-factor. It applies also to brick-and-mortar business, and also to any kind of business. You open a McDonald’s, and the next day City Council approves a road work just in front of you and you lose business. You open whatever you want, and the next day the NFL team moves to a different city, and your business die. Go visit Crawford, TX. Once a rich little town with decent business because of Bush’s ranch; it’s now a desert, almost a ghost town. Why? Something outside of the business’ control happened (Bush leaving), and they were providing value.
Now, as for my specific investment, what I was trying to say is that a lot of people know about a company much more than they think, and yes they can make quick money with just a little work. In my case, I have been following Apple since I was a child in the 80s, and more intensely since Jobs returned. My knowledge of their product is above that of most IT guys in the field. Much more, just for fun, I followed each and every rumor on each project that somehow pops-up. First example is the iPhone 6/6+. Back in July there were reports that the iPhone 6/6+ was NOT going to use sapphire. The meaning? If you know Apple it meant that they had foreseen an unprecedented request, since sapphire is relatively scarce. Apple knew that they were going to have a record sale and it was evident. When the first mock-ups of iPhone 6/6+ popped out, it was even clearer that Apple was going to hit a record level in sales. The dimensions of the phone, and a “bored” userbase, commanded it. Another example is Apple Pay. As soon as the first photo of a Broadcom NFC chip on a iPhone 6/6+ showed up in tech websites, it became evident that Apple was creating a wallet. Although I did not know that Apple Pay would’ve ended up being such a superb concept, it was clear that Apple was invading a new field and banks were happy (I remember rumors of talks with BOA etc.). And Apple Pay is a cash cow. It is rumored that fall 2015 will see the iPad Pro (12"), it could be a big hit.
On Apple Watch, I think they’re afraid. They will sell a gazillion of them at them, but they are not sure that people will upgrade them later, and this is why they will mix it with other products in their revenue reports. Another example is the Mac sales; it was argued in the “Apple sphere” that Mac sales were picking up, while the PC sales were going down. They did, and I was informed of that.
Let’s go to stocks analysis. Check the numbers, something I was doing anyways. After an Apple iPhone announcement, stocks go down. Then, they pick up, usually within three months. This time iPhone 6/6+ sales and Apple’s revenue was so good that the timing was faster so at first they went down and then picked up (stocks now at $114). Another thing I knew was their cash availability (mostly offshore) and other stuff related to cash. I also was informed of interesting job position openings. Tell me if your financial advisor knows who is hired in the company he suggests investing in.
It’s all information that I had anyways because I enjoyed reading it for my pleasure.
Where’s the gamble in: 1) Knowing the product 2) being informed 3) reading historical charts 4) looking at the most valuable and stable company right now? It’s not much more gamble than any other investment. Obviously it’s impossible to predict everything. Tim Cook farts today and the stocks go down at $50. But unless you predict the future, please don’t give me the “you gambled, while I don’t” argument.

 

[daivey]

This thread has definitely reached an importance level way higher than what I expected..

no it hasn't

and like was said that $500 would have only bought you 5 shares. which would have yielded maybe $50 return. After commissions and taxes, your probably only earned $30.

anyway, yes well done for the mind set change. maybe you will apple it to the rest of the your life?