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GOLD! This is what 60 Pounds (27 KGS) Looks Like

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TinyOldLady

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From some other thread I learned that a magic note written by Vigilante can help you immensely with achieving your goals :smile2:. Maybe you can get one of those
 

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Supa

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You got this @Vigilante! Looking forward to see your successes on here :)

Somewhere on here is a weight loss progress thread of mine (that I probably should update someday), where I started my weight loss journey with something like 250 lbs (113 kg) and as of today I am at around 202 lbs (92 kg).

It took me about 2 years so far (started in March 2016) with probably more than a year of not doing anything but holding the current weight at that time (or going up a bit, then back down), in between.

In the months I lost weight I pretty much did one thing:

I put less calories in my mouth than my body burned.

Did I exercise? Yes, definitely. But only a few months of the whole process.

At first I ate according to @Belcher 's eating plan he made for me (hope you're still around here) which was, as he later told me, basically made to be less calories a day than I burn a day.

Later I started using a calorie counting app called YAZIO (similar to MyFitnessPal but I like the design and user experience a lot more) to track everything I put into my mouth (including every drink except light drinks or water).

The great part about it is the process.

I once read somewhere that weight loss is simple, it's just not easy. That's what I also believe.

Put less in your mouth than your body burns. Simple. Actually doing that for months on end without seeing too much of a hint of success for a long long time? Not so easy.

What YAZIO (and MFP too) gives you, is a daily calorie goal.

So let's use mine: 2083 per day.

If I am below or exactly at 2083 calories on that day, I am green. Awesome.

It also counts your steps and adds them and calories burned from activity into the calculation, which will add a second number in yellow for activity. If you overstep your calorie goal (of 2083 for me) that day, but are still within the range of the calories you burned due to extra activity like half an hour on the bike at the gym, you are yellow. Not so awesome but still okay.

Now, if you even overstep that extra activity, you are red. Not good.

What that does for you? It breaks a long winded and tough to do process down into daily achievable goals.

Each day you are green is a little success.

It may sound complicated.
I really have to type in every little bit I eat?
Some may ask. And the reply?
Mhm. And what you drink.

But, in all seriousness now, it's really not that complicated.

You can scan the barcodes of pretty much everything and find it in the app's (btw it's a free app) database. You can even save everything of that database into your favorites list, including whole meals that you can put together and have everything added to your breakfast/lunch/dinner within less than 10 seconds.

After a while you get a pretty good understanding of what you can eat and drink to be green that day.

Carbs? Holy shit, one plate of noodles has what?! 500 calories? For that tiny portion? F*ck that.

Proteins? How hard can it be to get a decent number of calories with those little F*ckers? Two big chicken breasts only 230 calories? How much am I supposed to eat of those? I'm full.

Fat? Oh boy that gotta be ... huh, that's pretty okay, isn't it? Like 400 calories for a satisfying portion? That's ... that's pretty good.

My fiancée and I also joined a gym a month or so ago, which not just adds yellow numbers onto the daily calories burned, but also feels awesome. We are doing the calorie counting together, too, which helps tremdeously.

You can of course hit the gym or do the workout you'd like to do in addition. You can do Keto, Paleo or whatever works best for you.

As long as at the end of the day you are green.

I don't know if anything of what I wrote now will help you, Vig, or anybody else on here, but if it does I'd be happy to have posted this :)
 

Solrac

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Wow, congrats!

If I didn't know better, that photo of you in the mirror looks like Lai Topez!
I just had a pretty hard laugh, that's hilarious.

I get told that I'm someone's doppelganger all the time. I get Zac Efron the most these days (I'm not complaining!). I have a bunch of funny stories!

Thanks, I will post pictures of the show. I know it might not have immediate correlations to entrepreneurship, but there is definitely a lot to be learned from doing these events that you can apply in a business sense.
 

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I am a proponent of going all in and not F'ing around with things. To me, a cheat day is just that, cheating. Mentally you are telling yourself that you'll do something for so long, then the prize is your old bad habit....

That doesn't seem to make sense for long term change. If you are making a lifestyle change and replacing your old habits with more empowering new habits, why would you need to tease yourself with the old ones? ...unless you are planning on going back to them when you're done with your "diet".

If you are starting out and pre-planning your "cheat days" you've already lost the point, LOL.
 
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I am a proponent of going all in and not F'ing around with things. To me, a cheat day is just that, cheating. Mentally you are telling yourself that you'll do something for so long, then the prize is your old bad habit....

That doesn't seem to make sense for long term change. If you are making a lifestyle change and replacing your old habits with more empowering new habits, why would you need to tease yourself with the old ones? ...unless you are planning on going back to them when you're done with your "diet".

If you are starting out and pre-planning your "cheat days" you've already lost the point, LOL.
Not planning on any cheat days. The nice part of the plan I am on is it is auto pilot. Eat exactly what they tell you. No more, no less.

Not tempted by anything as it is what it is. The pain in the a$$ for me is the shit ton of vegetables they want you to eat.

5 servings of non-starchy vegetables a day, which is 5x more than I am used to eating.

Plus, 64 ounces of water a day. 64 ounces more than I am used to drinking.

30 minutes of exercise a day, which is 29 minutes more than I am used to.

No booze while your body kicks into ketosis, which may also cause me to kick into the DT's. :)

I think this is fun. I know what is at the end of the rainbow. Not worried. No time to worry when I am trying to shovel down some bell peppers.
 

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If you still view food as a reward, rather than fuel for performance, then you haven't fixed your relationship with food. Cheat days don't help people lose weight, it only prolongs their "mental illness".

If that isn't enough, it's quite easy to undo a week of dieting with a single cheat "day". It's literally two steps forward and two steps back.

The reward for dieting is an extended lifespan, a more healthy and energetic life, and not looking like 200 pounds of chewed bubblegum.
 
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Vigilante

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Vig, I'm holding you to it. This is a pix from our 2018 Summit. I want the same picture next year with you, and we are going to post it, with before and after.

View attachment 19488


BECAUSE YOU CAN!

Get rid of the sugar. Get rid of the grease.

WALK THE TALK, around the block and you'll get rid of the doc.

Pullin' for ya Vig.
Any time I need some motivation I may just come back and look at that photo.
 

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Not planning on any cheat days. The nice part of the plan I am on is it is auto pilot. Eat exactly what they tell you. No more, no less.

Not tempted by anything as it is what it is. The pain in the a$$ for me is the sh*t ton of vegetables they want you to eat.

5 servings of non-starchy vegetables a day, which is 5x more than I am used to eating.

Plus, 64 ounces of water a day. 64 ounces more than I am used to drinking.

30 minutes of exercise a day, which is 29 minutes more than I am used to.

No booze while your body kicks into ketosis, which may also cause me to kick into the DT's. :)

I think this is fun. I know what is at the end of the rainbow. Not worried. No time to worry when I am trying to shovel down some bell peppers.
Yup I hear ya. I'm glad you can do it the easy way, which is pre-buying meals. It adds another layer when folks all the sudden have to use their kitchen other than a place to set their keys, mail, and delivered food. Any extra new things you can eliminate only increase your probability of long term change.

I have no doubt you'll stick to this, because it is just your new life. You owe it to them, to all of them.
 
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Yup I hear ya. I'm glad you can do it the easy way, which is pre-buying meals. It adds another layer when folks all the sudden have to use their kitchen other than a place to set their keys, mail, and delivered food. Any extra new things you can eliminate only increase your probability of long term change.

I have no doubt you'll stick to this, because it is just your new life. You owe it to them, to all of them.
I do think if I had to cook it and I was cooking in the kitchen some eggs, and the rest of the family was there with some toast, etc... tough to skip past the decades worth of conditioning. I am fortunate that I have my own office, with an empty refrigerator that was just waiting for all this stuff to roll in. Breakfast and lunch at the office, and I can just have at home the few things I need for the hours inbetween.

The crazy thing is I actually think it is CHEAPER than my old life, which would usually be grab something to eat in the morning, like a donut... grab an extensive lunch at a restaurant, and possibly restaurant or something extravagant for dinner. I'm saving money doing this.

Travelling to Vegas next week for a day, but will fast a little, bring some of their pre-made meal bars, etc... Aint no big thing. Can grab a salad en route. No worries.
 

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If you still view food as a reward, rather than fuel for performance, then you haven't fixed your relationship with food. Cheat days don't help people lose weight, it only prolongs their "mental illness".
That'll preach. :clap::
 

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Have you ever looked into intermittent fasting? Essentially all it involves is skipping breakfast every morning and staving off your morning appetite with black coffee or carbonated water. I find it I start getting hungry around 10:30am I drink some coffee and I don't feel hungry again until 12:30 or even 1pm.

The advantages to fasting in the morning means you can have a HUGE lunch and dinner while still staying in a caloric deficit for the day. You can also eat the foods you love (in reasonable amounts) because you have extra calories to work with saved up from the morning. I found it much more enjoyable than eating 6 bite sized meals a day (as many fitness gurus encourage) and I achieved fast and sustainable results.

I lost 30lbs of body fat in 4 months and I have kept the weight off for 2.5 years since I started. Just wanted to let you know what worked for me. Congrats on starting your weight loss journey and I wish you the best of luck!

Austin
 

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lewj24

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I am a proponent of going all in and not F'ing around with things. To me, a cheat day is just that, cheating. Mentally you are telling yourself that you'll do something for so long, then the prize is your old bad habit....
I disagree. Not that I can convince you but for anyone reading.

If you actually wanted to go hard as F*ck when it comes to losing weight you would stop eating entirely. Fasting for extended periods of time has been proven to be the most effective way to lose weight for obvious reasons. If you really want to go hard go under Dr supervision, take some multivitamins, and only drink water until you are happy with your weight. In this case no cheat days are a great thing.

Otherwise if you don't want to go hard as shit I believe the best way is to eat healthy while intermittent fasting and having a cheat day once per week. The reason is if all you do is eat the same healthier food every day your body will adapt and you will plateau.

We are dealing with human physiology here. Anybody who works out will tell you that you have to mix up your routine in order to escape the plateau because your body adapts to it quickly.

The same thing happens with diet. If you don't mix things up your progress will slow unless you are fasting. I believe you will lose weight quicker by adding in cheat days vs not having them. It also helps you mentally through the journey.
 

Real Deal Denver

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WHAT a thread! Can't get enough of the great advice here!

I have to lose a lot more than 60 lbs. so I'm working right along side of you brother!

THANK YOU for the flour pic. I'm buying two bags, one for my wife and I, as added inspiration.
 

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I disagree. Not that I can convince you but for anyone reading.

If you actually wanted to go hard as f*ck when it comes to losing weight you would stop eating entirely. Fasting for extended periods of time has been proven to be the most effective way to lose weight for obvious reasons. If you really want to go hard go under Dr supervision, take some multivitamins, and only drink water until you are happy with your weight. In this case no cheat days are a great thing.

Otherwise if you don't want to go hard as sh*t I believe the best way is to eat healthy while intermittent fasting and having a cheat day once per week. The reason is if all you do is eat the same healthier food every day your body will adapt and you will plateau.

We are dealing with human physiology here. Anybody who works out will tell you that you have to mix up your routine in order to escape the plateau because your body adapts to it quickly.

The same thing happens with diet. If you don't mix things up your progress will slow unless you are fasting. I believe you will lose weight quicker by adding in cheat days vs not having them. It also helps you mentally through the journey.
Apologies for coming off harsh here, but this is really bad advice. I know it's well intentioned, but it's wrong on many levels.

1) "mixing up" your routine is a recipe to make zero gains. In lifting, you make gains by progressively adding weight to the bar, or adding sets/reps, in some periodized fashion.. Progressive overload is the name of the game. Switching out exercises every time you hit the gym will only slow your gains overall.

2) In dieting, it's far more efficient to eat the exact same thing every single day to minimize variation in your diet. Fluctuating carb / salt intakes will cause wild variations of scale weight, due to fluctuations in water weight. The uninitiated masses will perceive this as wild fluctuations in actual body composition and get dejected. Most people are unwilling to eat the same thing every day, so they trade efficiency for variety in their diet. It's not immoral or anything, just less efficient.

3) For people who are overweight to mildly obese, straight up fasting is not the most effective way to get in shape. It will certainly peel off pounds, but you're going to be stripping muscle mass. That shit isn't easy to rebuild, so this is a terrible idea except for the morbidly obese who are in imminent danger of health complications.

4) Cheat days will destroy your progress, period. You'll be running a 3500 calorie deficit or so during the week, which is more than easy to make up with a couple trips to a restaurant on a cheat day. Cheat meals are less terrible, but again they are not reflective of a healthy relationship with food. Either way, it's taking steps backwards and not getting your mind right.

5) Flexible dieting is a real thing. At the end of the day, total macronutrient intake is going to determine body composition, along with exercise. High carb /low fat vs. low carb / high fat makes zero difference in the long run (holding protein intake constant), so folks that have an unhealthy relationship with food would be better off transitioning into an IIFYM type diet, with the goal of cutting out highly processed junk food and replacing it with less processed foods over time.

With respect to plateaus, they usually occur because the body reaches a sort of equilibrium. When you start losing weight, you are in a calorie deficit. Eventually your body weight decreases, lowering your TDEE. Eventually your daily intake and TDEE equilibrate, and you plateau. The solution to this is to either increase activity, decrease calorie intake, or both - not to go back to doing the same eating habits that made you fat in the first place.

Other times you can plateau because your body is adept at maintaining equilibrium. While you are burning fat, your body may hold onto water weight to keep overall mass consistent. Eventually you'll drop all that water weight and the scale will drop a couple pounds overnight. I've observed this with myself numerous times. Eating a cheat meal could trigger the water weight to release earlier than it otherwise would have, but it comes at the expense of burning less fat because you have come out of your calorie deficit. This makes one think the cheat meal helped them get in shape, when the reality is the opposite.

I dropped 50 pounds myself many years ago, and know all of this stuff from personal experience. I've gained some of it back after getting laid off and not lifting, but our home gym is done and I'm back at it myself.
 

Real Deal Denver

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With respect to plateaus, they usually occur because the body reaches a sort of equilibrium. When you start losing weight, you are in a calorie deficit. Eventually your body weight decreases, lowering your TDEE. Eventually your daily intake and TDEE equilibrate, and you plateau.
Great info. I don't know what it all means, so I am going to have to do some research to fill in the blanks. In the meantime - can you "simplify" this for me?

For example:

I have heard so much about dieting, and I don't know what the best information is.

First - plateauing scares me. If I eat large quantities of good food - salads, for example - I hope I never plateau. I can just keep up my very healthy diet for as long as I want right? And I drop pounds as I go. It just depends on how long I want to do that? I hope, anyway.

Second - a friend of mine hates exercise and lost a lot of weight by eating six snacks a day. All good food, of course - no junk food. He explained that his digestive system stayed working constantly, as there was always food there, so it did not store any excess as fat. He made impressive gains using this method. What do you think of that method?

Third - Let's go all out. The snack method AND going to the gym. To be honest, I hate the gym, but I could do 30 minutes 3 or 4 times a week - moderate exercise. Not heavy. I used to have a trainer and I quit because I always felt like I was hit by a bus. Always in pain. Just got sick of it. Now, I'm in bad shape, but no pain.

I'd like to have a guide of some sort to know what to expect. I already cut out soda, fast food, and will soon cut out starch - wheat and potatoes.

With the snack method, and the moderate gym, could I expect to lose 8-10 lbs a month? Steadily? In a year that might be 100 lbs, which would be fantastic. I could eat salads, et al., for a year - I love salads actually and it would be no sacrifice for me.

Thanks for any connecting of the dots you might be able to do for me ~
 

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3) For people who are overweight to mildly obese, straight up fasting is not the most effective way to get in shape. It will certainly peel off pounds, but you're going to be stripping muscle mass. That sh*t isn't easy to rebuild, so this is a terrible idea except for the morbidly obese who are in imminent danger of health complications.
This is wrong. Straight up fasting has been proven to be the best way to lose weight. Tons of research have been done on this like that guy who fasted for 382 days straight and has kept the weight off ever since. Why? Because your insulin levels are the lowest when you fast. Insulin causes weight gain. Not calories. So the longer your insulin is down the more weight-loss you get. Muscle loss is very minor in comparison to the amount of fat you will lose when fasting unless you have no fat to lose. And it is always easier to regain lost muscle than to create new muscle.

4) Cheat days will destroy your progress, period. You'll be running a 3500 calorie deficit or so during the week, which is more than easy to make up with a couple trips to a restaurant on a cheat day. Cheat meals are less terrible, but again they are not reflective of a healthy relationship with food. Either way, it's taking steps backwards and not getting your mind right.
No they will not destroy your progress. Tons of bodybuilders use cheat days regularly to get a better physique. A cheat day is also not about calories. It is about confusing your hormones so they don't plateau. Weight loss is driven by your hormones.

Food will also always be associated with a reward for people. There is nothing wrong with this. Food activates dopamine in our brains to reward us for not starving to death. You cannot stop the good feeling of dopamine with food unless you only eat the worst tasting food you can find (good luck with that). Getting a dopamine reward hit isn't bad. Same with sex and getting likes on social media. Nothing wrong with it as long as it's normal. Plenty of people become healthy while also eating delicious foods regularly.

With respect to plateaus, they usually occur because the body reaches a sort of equilibrium. When you start losing weight, you are in a calorie deficit. Eventually your body weight decreases, lowering your TDEE. Eventually your daily intake and TDEE equilibrate, and you plateau. The solution to this is to either increase activity, decrease calorie intake, or both - not to go back to doing the same eating habits that made you fat in the first place.
Again it is not about calories this is completely wrong. People that fast for long periods of time show that their TDEE actually goes up, not down while they are losing weight. No plateau.

So here is the deal with the calorie thing. You are correct in the fact that you do have to be in a caloric deficit in order to lose weight but what people don't understand is that your body will change how many calories it burns based off of what you eat. If you only eat bread (low calorie) you will burn way less calories than someone who only eats nuts (high calorie). The body adjusts its TDEE based off of those foods effects on your hormones. That is what people miss.

Why does this happen? Because what exactly is a calorie? Everyone says it but nobody knows what it is.
The Calorie was invented in 1850. It is defined in Wikipedia as, "the approximate amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius at a pressure of one atmosphere." In other words they would burn a Big Mac and measure how much heat was given off to determine how many calories it contained.

Your body is not a fire pit that burns its food for heat. It is a complex living organism with numerous hormones and processes involved in breaking down food and building up cells. Calories are flat wrong if looked at alone.

382 day fast guy

5,000 calorie per day guy
 

lewj24

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He explained that his digestive system stayed working constantly, as there was always food there, so it did not store any excess as fat
This is bro science and not how your metabolism works.
 

Supa

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So here is the deal with the calorie thing.
Great points and an interesting in depth look at the whole process of calories.

It seems like you have some deep knowledge on that topic, so I‘d love to hear your opinion one thing.

I can‘t speak from lots of knowledge on the topic of how the body transforms and burns calories and adjust its TDEE, I can only speak from my own experience and that of others.

I think there are two huge reasons, among others, why calorie counting or CiCo (Calories In, Calories Out) works for so many people.

One is that you are staying at a caloric deficit.

The other one, and those are just my thoughts now, could be, that if you count your calories and in the process of it, limit them to a specific daily goal, after while you learn what you can eat, that will do both things: satisfying your hunger and keeping you below your caloric deficit limit.

So, you could either eat some carb-rich foods that‘ll satisfy your hunger for a short amount of time, that have lots of calories.
Or you could eat foods high in proteins and fats, that will keep your hunger satifyed and you below your caloric limit, therefore at a caloric deficit.

So basically, you eat at a caloric deficit aswell as lots of proteins and fats instead of carbs.

Again, this comes from some basic research and own experiences. I would love to hear your opinion on that.
 

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EVERYWHERE is an obstacle; a burger commercial, a fast-food joint, a great menu at the restaurant -- you literally cannot escape the encitement and encouragement for a poor diet.
Perhaps profit is the cause of obesity (i.e. that which drives the fast food chains etc).
 

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Congrats on making this change.

I’ve lost 60lbs at one point in my life and would fluctuate 15lbs from that new baseline for years forward.

I’m in the best shape of my life now as far as leanness and physical performance and it’s honestly been the easiest tome I’ve had getting there.

A few things that have worked for me in case you’re interested.

1. Visualization of your ideal self. This may seem weird for some people, but literally becoming someone who doesn’t eat processed foods, or rarely touches breads and sugar was based on being my future self.

I have virtually zero cravings and this has spurred from dropping sugar from my diet. I do not count calories. I eat 5/6 times a day. Omelette for breakfast of 4 eggs, veggies and maybe bacon, 2-3 small/medium sized meals all containing lean meat, quinoa or rice, and a vegetable, then fruit, nuts, quest protein bars.

Making this stuff taste good is essential and my meals taste better than any crap I used to eat. Marinade your meats, grill them and lay them on a bed of quinoa and kale. Chop up some olives, red roasted peppers and apples and mix it in. There’s your lunch. Sprinkle on some balsamic. I’d take that over any fast food. And you feel great throughout the day. Not bloated.

2. Going back to point one. Understand you’re becoming someone new. This isn’t a diet. You’re becoming a person who fuels there body with nutritious meals because a Ferrari doesn’t take 87 unleaded.

I want to be the best version of myself. That includes fueling myself with the best foods and exercising to stay healthy.

3. Fall in love with some form of exercise. For me it’s Crossfit, Olympic Weight Lifting, Powerlifting, Running. I mean I love to workout. I have 3 half marathons in October I’m doing 3 days in a row. Ones in Bryce Canyon, the other Zion and the last The Grand Canyon.

I love to compete and I love a challenge. When I used to aimlessly do body part splits and incline treadmill for exercise I hated it. Doing challenging lifts, learning new complex moves and competing in things fuels my desire to gym it.

I will not miss the gym. I left the gym tonight at 9pm on a Friday and have a two hour commute home from there. The gyms by where I work and homes not. Most people would not workout in my situation.

Now we all have responsibilities, and family obligations, but working out needs to be a part of your weekly routine. And make it intense. Quality time over quantity. I could probably give you some workouts that won’t take more than 20 minutes and you’ll be torched.

This will all get easier in time and with a concrete vision of your goal.

Good luck.
 

lewj24

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Great points and an interesting in depth look at the whole process of calories.

It seems like you have some deep knowledge on that topic, so I‘d love to hear your opinion one thing.

I can‘t speak from lots of knowledge on the topic of how the body transforms and burns calories and adjust its TDEE, I can only speak from my own experience and that of others.

I think there are two huge reasons, among others, why calorie counting or CiCo (Calories In, Calories Out) works for so many people.

One is that you are staying at a caloric deficit.

The other one, and those are just my thoughts now, could be, that if you count your calories and in the process of it, limit them to a specific daily goal, after while you learn what you can eat, that will do both things: satisfying your hunger and keeping you below your caloric deficit limit.

So, you could either eat some carb-rich foods that‘ll satisfy your hunger for a short amount of time, that have lots of calories.
Or you could eat foods high in proteins and fats, that will keep your hunger satifyed and you below your caloric limit, therefore at a caloric deficit.

So basically, you eat at a caloric deficit aswell as lots of proteins and fats instead of carbs.

Again, this comes from some basic research and own experiences. I would love to hear your opinion on that.
Not exactly sure what you want my opinion on but I'll try.

1g of carbs is approximately 4 calories.
1g of protein is approx. 4 calories.
1g of fat is approx. 9 calories.

I believe your example of cutting calories isn't the norm. If your goal is to cut calories you will eat 0 fat since it has the most calories per gram. You wouldn't add fat and cut carbs for the hope of being more full since you can eat twice as many carbs and still have less calories. Eating no fat results in a poor diet that will give you tons of problems and eventually kill you. Did you know if have no fat in your diet you will die (look up rabbit starvation)? Same with protein. You can, however, live your whole life without carbs.

Just straight calorie counting, no matter what the diet, does work for everyone in the short term. Millions of people have lost weight on Weight Watchers calorie point system. The problem is they gain it all back in the long run.

They say OK here's the calculator that says you can eat 2500 calories per day to maintain your weight. So now just eat 2200 calories to lose weight. So you do this. Then you lose some weight. Until you plateau. Now your base is 2200 calories and you cut down to 2000. then 1800. then 1600. Then 1400. Until you are at your goal weight. Well guess what? Your body has been starving this whole time and it has taken increased will power to stay on this calorie counting plan. Now if you eat 1500 calories you will gain your weight back which is exactly what your body wants to do even though before you were eating 1,000 calories more to maintain your weight. You then start gaining weight back slowly and cheating here and there because you're losing willpower and you are craving food. And eventually you gain it all back plus some. We want long term results not short term.

If calorie counting works then why have so many failed? Why is it so hard to lose weight? Millions lose weight this way every year yet obesity rates keeps rising. Why? Because they gain it back the next year. These people then think, "That Weight Watchers diet worked I just didn't discipline myself to keep up with it so I'm going to join them again." Even though they were set up for failure from the start. This is what we call in the business world 'repeat customers' if there are no fat people weight loss companies go under.

It's hard to write everything on here. I have been thinking about trying to coach people who want to lose weight one on one but have been hesitant because of the entry barriers and time dependency/lack of scale involved. Still thinking about it.
 

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I am a proponent of going all in and not F'ing around with things. To me, a cheat day is just that, cheating. Mentally you are telling yourself that you'll do something for so long, then the prize is your old bad habit....

That doesn't seem to make sense for long term change. If you are making a lifestyle change and replacing your old habits with more empowering new habits, why would you need to tease yourself with the old ones? ...unless you are planning on going back to them when you're done with your "diet".

If you are starting out and pre-planning your "cheat days" you've already lost the point, LOL.
I hate quotes like the above. There is no one size fits all. There have been several others on here that say a cheat day works for them. Don't discount it because it didn't work for you. No one shoe fits all. Except flip flops. ;)
 

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Not exactly sure what you want my opinion on but I'll try.

1g of carbs is approximately 4 calories.
1g of protein is approx. 4 calories.
1g of fat is approx. 9 calories.

I believe your example of cutting calories isn't the norm. If your goal is to cut calories you will eat 0 fat since it has the most calories per gram. You wouldn't add fat and cut carbs for the hope of being more full since you can eat twice as many carbs and still have less calories. Eating no fat results in a poor diet that will give you tons of problems and eventually kill you. Did you know if have no fat in your diet you will die (look up rabbit starvation)? Same with protein. You can, however, live your whole life without carbs.

Just straight calorie counting, no matter what the diet, does work for everyone in the short term. Millions of people have lost weight on Weight Watchers calorie point system. The problem is they gain it all back in the long run.

They say OK here's the calculator that says you can eat 2500 calories per day to maintain your weight. So now just eat 2200 calories to lose weight. So you do this. Then you lose some weight. Until you plateau. Now your base is 2200 calories and you cut down to 2000. then 1800. then 1600. Then 1400. Until you are at your goal weight. Well guess what? Your body has been starving this whole time and it has taken increased will power to stay on this calorie counting plan. Now if you eat 1500 calories you will gain your weight back which is exactly what your body wants to do even though before you were eating 1,000 calories more to maintain your weight. You then start gaining weight back slowly and cheating here and there because you're losing willpower and you are craving food. And eventually you gain it all back plus some. We want long term results not short term.

If calorie counting works then why have so many failed? Why is it so hard to lose weight? Millions lose weight this way every year yet obesity rates keeps rising. Why? Because they gain it back the next year. These people then think, "That Weight Watchers diet worked I just didn't discipline myself to keep up with it so I'm going to join them again." Even though they were set up for failure from the start. This is what we call in the business world 'repeat customers' if there are no fat people weight loss companies go under.

It's hard to write everything on here. I have been thinking about trying to coach people who want to lose weight one on one but have been hesitant because of the entry barriers and time dependency/lack of scale involved. Still thinking about it.
Thanks for the time you put into writing this.

Though I strongly disagree with you on one thing here.

What you‘re saying describes the JoJo effect and I agree that it‘s a huge problem for a lot of people.

BUT the people suffering from it are those I call 30-day dieters. The „this new diet here will do it“ people who just want quick results, instant gratification in other words.

Where I disagree, is that you ASSUME that all people who count calories fall under this subgroup.

Bodybuilders count calories to gain. And to lose, while in the defining phase.

Don‘t get me wrong, you‘re right that if someone lowers their daily caloric limit at each plateau they hit, they will JoJo the F*ck back as soon as they eat normally again.

You also only name Weight Watchers. Their point system is flawed. Users lose for a while since it basically is calorie counting and looking at what they put into their mouth. Though as soon as the quit WW they have no idea of calories or foods itself, only about WW‘s point system.

What was suggested to me, for the times I plateaued, was to just keep going at it. Not changing your caloric goal or anything. Keep going and it will dissolve within 2 or 3 weeks. And it always did.

I started with a daily caloric goal of about 2200, and now, 30 lbs later, the calorie counting app I‘m using adjustes it over time to the current 2083 lbs.

So, yeah, you are right that people who cut their daily caloric intake too low due to being frustrated of a plateau that will go away on itself in a few weeks, will JoJo back up probably.

That‘s not calorie counting or CiCo, though.
 

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BUT the people suffering from it are those I call 30-day dieters. The „this new diet here will do it“ people who just want quick results, instant gratification in other words.

Where I disagree, is that you ASSUME that all people who count calories fall under this subgroup.
I am not assuming they all are instant gratification people on 30 day diets. You don't plateau that quickly like the example I said above. I'm talking about the people that are on a calorie counting plan for 6 to 12 months. They lose weight. Everyone is impressed and gives complements and then slowly but surely they gain it all back.

Also the problem isn't counting calories. It's counting calories without understanding that each calorie is different. 1 calorie of fat, 1 calorie of carbs, and 1 calorie of protein are processed differently in the human body. I haven't even gone into how different the process is in the human body for each type of fat (sat fat, mono fat, trans fat, poly fat), and the different types of carbs (sugar, fiber). We haven't even really got into macros or micros and how they effect the body.

What I'm trying to say is there is nothing wrong with body builders or dieters or health nuts counting calories to see where they are at AS LONG AS they understand each calorie is different and effects your body differently. 1g of carbs in bread is way different than 1g of carbs in spinach. 1g of sucrose vs 1g of lactose. 1g fat vs 1g protein. 1g trans fat vs 1g fiber. All way different.

When people say things like, "3500 calories equals a pound of muscle." I cringe because this may be scientifically true but it paints people a picture that makes them think every calorie is the same and that calories are all that matter.

People say, "You are making weight loss way to complicated, all it is is calories in vs calories out. Just don't eat as much." I say to that, No It's not all about calories for weight loss. if you want a one sentence summary of everything I've been trying to say it boils down to: eat a healthy natural diet (paleo, keto, mediterranean, south beach, etc.) that you enjoy and combine it with intermittent fasting, cheat days, and exercise and you will lose weight. It's almost common sense but everyone harps about these damn calories and then people believe you and then they start yo-yo dieting for the rest of their lives because they were told it was all about that damn calorie.
 

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What was suggested to me, for the times I plateaued, was to just keep going at it. Not changing your caloric goal or anything. Keep going and it will dissolve within 2 or 3 weeks. And it always did.
I'm also trying to bring awareness on how big of a role hormones play in weight gain/loss. Here you talk about a plateauing metabolism. Well what controls your metabolism? Hormones.
 
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Nearly all weight reduction eating plans work. Paleo, Keto, South Beach, Weight Watchers... All work. So you're both right. Carry on.
 

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Nearly all weight reduction eating plans work. Paleo, Keto, South Beach, Weight Watchers... All work. So you're both right. Carry on.
No they don't all work. That is wrong. So many people on Weight Watchers lose weight in the short term (6-12 months) and then gain it back in the long term. I don't want the same to happen to you which is the only reason I keep responding.

Caloric reduction does not work in the long run.

The goal is long-term, lasting weight loss.

Weight Watchers Corporate Laughing at People Regaining Weight Back

Biggest Loser Contestants
 

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Working out doesn't burn many calories. I think it takes something like 27 flights of stairs to burn off a half of an Oreo cookie for a man that weighs 220lbs. Working out does raise testosterone levels which in turn burns fat.
What if he enrolls in a high-intensity cardio fitness class like Zumba? He can easily burn anywhere from 300 - 600+ calories per hour assuming he goes all out. 2 times a day, 6 days a week, while on that South Beach diet (looks very delicious yummy!)
 
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Due to the request of several we decided to reopen this. Debate is fine but please don't keep reposting the same message and keep things positive. There are several people following this for whom your guys content has been extremely beneficial. Keep in mind there's more than one correct answer.

I have also heard one amazing update post-meetup and I hope he comes into this thread or elsewhere and posts his update. In interest of his privacy (and since I got the information secondhand) I won't post it but know that there are SEVERAL fastlaners who are rocking this and improving their physical health.

Carry on. Keep it civil, constructive, and helpful!
 
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donut.jpg I'm in day three, and the initial results have been fun. We all know how to improve our physical health. For me, having a specific crafted plan to follow has made a huge difference. This weekend has been a singificant carb crash as I get my body into ketosis. The food I purchased arrived Thursday, so I started following the specific first week plan Friday morning. So much water! I did also do a six mile bike ride yesterday, as I start slowly training for the two 5k's that I registered for (the first one fittingly on Father's day) --- I will probably walk that one but don't care. Better than sitting on the couch.

Spent some time chatting with @LightHouse about water weight loss (using water to flush out the easy first level impurities and lack of hydration). My guess is this first week I will drop 6-8 lbs which should be not super difficult as the initial weight will melt off. I bet it's harder for someone remotely healthy to drop a few pounds than someone fat fat fat to drop a dozen.

@LightHouse then promptly texted me a photo of him eating one of my favorite donuts.
 

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