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GOLD! Think big and then think bigger than that.

Kak

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Just offering some counter balance to the heavy biases of some on this forum.
"Counterbalance" and successful debate require some form of actual evidence. You have provided nothing, but sour opinion and conjecture.

We understand that some people, despite a valiant life long effort, might still be left with nothing. It is possible, sure, but FAR from probable.

First of all... The people of this forum are more optimistic than that, and they have every right to be... Why? Because the odds are still with them. Plenty of people have set themselves free from a tyrannical life ruled by a collection of others. Plenty have become independently wealthy. Plenty COULD do it all again if they went broke today. Why? Because they don't give up.

Second of all... Who lives a happier and more fulfilling life?

The guy that never gives up on his dreams, strives and stays with it. Energized by progress and adaptation he continues on and dies suddenly without ever seeing them through...

Or...

The miserable, self loathing guy that not only gives up even trying, but spends the rest of his life attempting to destroy the morale of others that do want to try...​

In the worst case scenarios above, both end up dead my friend. Who had the better life? Who left the better example to his children? Who would you rather be?

I know I would rather leave my mark or die trying. It is part of a fulfilling time on this earth.

I will defend my position on this to no end because I believe it is of the greatest IMPORTANCE. I will not let you piss in everyone's cheerios from a soapbox you are attempting to build on a foundation of quicksand. I will not let you pontificate against the positive enthusiasm in this thread. These folks want to be the very best that they can be and your little existential crisis shouldn't have to be a consideration to them.

I dont know or care what people want on this forum..
Then why are you trying to tell them what to do?

Tell me again... Who is "biased?"
 

Brad S

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"Counterbalance" and successful debate require some form of actual evidence. You have provided nothing, but sour opinion and conjecture.

We understand that some people, despite a valiant life long effort, might still be left with nothing. It is possible, sure, but FAR from probable.

First of all... The people of this forum are more optimistic than that, and they have every right to be... Why? Because the odds are still with them. Plenty of people have set themselves free from a tyrannical life ruled by a collection of others. Plenty have become independently wealthy. Plenty COULD do it all again if they went broke today. Why? Because they don't give up.

Second of all... Who lives a happier and more fulfilling life?

The guy that never gives up on his dreams, strives and stays with it. Energized by progress and adaptation he continues on and dies suddenly without ever seeing them through...

Or...

The miserable, self loathing guy that not only gives up even trying, but spends the rest of his life attempting to destroy the morale of others that do want to try...​

In the worst case scenarios above, both end up dead my friend. Who had the better life? Who left the better example to his children? Who would you rather be?

I know I would rather leave my mark or die trying. It is part of a fulfilling time on this earth.

I will defend my position on this to no end because I believe it is of the greatest IMPORTANCE. I will not let you piss in everyone's cheerios from a soapbox you are attempting to build on a foundation of quicksand. I will not let you pontificate against the positive enthusiasm in this thread. These folks want to be the very best that they can be and your little existential crisis shouldn't have to be a consideration to them.



Then why are you trying to tell them what to do?

Tell me again... Who is "biased?"
I get what you're saying.

I dont disagree with you.

The past me would have completely agreed with you because that is what I WANTED or NEEDED to believe.

Why?

To have hope.

Sometimes "giving up" hope is the most hopeful thing you can do.

I don't care about the existential reality of life either.

That's obvious and nothing new.

What I have said is neither pessimistic nor optimistic, it just IS.

You have assigned a meaning to it.

Maybe I haven't articulated my thoughts well.

Or maybe my words are taken as a challange to some peoples world and self view that they NEED to keep intact because even a false certainty is better than uncertainty and doubt.

Or maybe we just have different experiences.

But regardless I respect your opinion and don't care to beat this thing anymore.

It's your thread and really your forum.

You've positioned yourself well on here.

Believe me when I say I dont care to hijack it.

Nor kill anyone's hope.

No one can ever learn anything except by their own experiences anyway.

If thinking big works for you or anyone else than of course they should keep doing it.





Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

theforamyst

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I read your introduction post on this forum, so maybe it's better to give an example off of that:



You have multiple options.

Thinking small:
  • Open a pizzeria. Operate it. Hope people walk in and that you can get online orders.
Thinking big:
  • Buy a commercial kitchen. Master online food order marketing in your local market. "Open 100 pizzerias" online that target different niches yet are all made in the same kitchen and use the same ingredients. Grow into other markets.
  • Invest in an automatic pizza making robot and install it in a self driving car. Perfect the technology. Wait for self-driving legalization. Raise funding. Franchise the model to everyone that wants to get in.
  • Open a pizzeria where the demand is highest, you can charge the largest premium, and you can grow the fastest. For example: a Chicago-style deep dish chain in Asia.
There's a lot of examples. Just have to think bigger. Adjust your mindset. Go for the higher payout.
Thanks, great reply. Rep transferred.

Would the producing of chocolate products and selling them online too, also fit in what you mention under 'Grow into other markets'? Or would that be too much?
And waffles and hamburgers are other things that are also on my mind. I guess they wouldn't be too much bc it's Think bigger, right? :)
 

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Why is that? Can you give some examples? I'm struggling to get this. What chapters or concepts from TMF are most relevant here?
Real world example-- The guy behind The Honest Company, Shoedazzle, and Legal Zoom, Brian Lee, shared that he had tried to open a yogurt store while running one of those companies because he wanted something convenient nearby.

It failed.

In a small operation, you're dealing with petty day to day issues with minimum wage staff. The return on your investment of time to solve those problems is miniscule.

Consider the scenario-- your net worth is $10,000.
Option A, take a risk of losing $50,000 with potential gain of 50,000 or Option B, risk losing $500,000 with a potential gain of over a million?

Option B is a no brainer-- your risk is essentially the same, either way, you're bankrupt if things go south, but with a higher potential return, you can afford to attract better people, investors, etc.
 

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Would the producing of chocolate products and selling them online too, also fit in what you mention under 'Grow into other markets'? Or would that be too much?
By markets I meant geographically.

Chocolates are not complimentary to what you're doing at all. Completely different ingredients, machines, and marketing.

Burgers and waffles also aren't necessarily in the same space. You're at a minimum running different marketing campaigns. However, if the supply chain (ingredients) are the same, then you can expand into that.

Thinking "big" doesn't mean creating a thousand shitty little businesses. It means creating one business that disrupts the space by having something of extreme value - whether that be the end value or price competitiveness.
 

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But now I've won another 10 businesses. I can afford another staff to complete the returns, and I can hire a sales person, so I don't even have to keep creating proposals.
@CareCPA is going to be a financial services mogul
 

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Just offering some counter balance to the heavy biases of some on this forum.
So, what's the alternative? Throwing up your hands & hoping things work out?

There are a few points made in this thread:
It takes similar effort, whether you pursue a small thing or a big thing.
The likelihood of success between small vs. big things is can be similar; often, big things have a higher probability of success.
Because of #1 & #2, it's logical to pursue bigger opportunities.
 

Kak

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Let's talk about this... https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/magnolia/article/Montgomery-restaurant-lands-at-top-of-Yelp-s-10862039.php

The restaurant in question is called Tony's. It was recently ranked number 1 in the entire country for places to eat by yelp. Let me tell you... They deserve it.

As someone that has been there several times I can say it is absolutely incredible how good the sandwiches are. Yelp is absolutely correct... Everything I have ever had there is literally the best I have ever had. I am convinced there is no way to make a better tasting sandwich. The people who work there are beyond pleasant.

Wow! High honor! With that high of praise from Yelp... It is safe to say their restaurant is the best. Certainly in the area, for sandwiches. It is basically proven fact that it is phenomenal food and value.

Unfortunately, Tony's is crammed in a class C real estate building between a discount dry cleaner and a pawn shop. I kid you not. This is their only location.

So why aren’t there 6 Tony's Italian Deli in the city? Why not 6 more in Dallas? Chicago? Miami? LA? Why aren't there at least 20 of them?

Why for every 1 Tony's Italian Deli is there...
40,000 Subways
2,800 Jimmy Johns
1,550 Firehouse Subs
800 Quiznos
413 Potbellys
350 Schlotzsky's
260 Jason's Deli
124 Jersey Mikes
When they made it work with a lesser product and service?

The answer is leadership. The owners work there. They work their asses off. They trapped themselves. They can't afford to quit and they cant afford to grow. This amazing sandwich joint will probably die when they retire. Sucks for you guys!

We avoid this by thinking bigger from the very beginning. Not getting caught up in the micro of one location, but the macro of the entire enterprise. The right leader could leverage this yelp ranking into a restaurant chain making millions and the owners would be doing less work, if any.

Moral of the story... Your product does NOT speak for itself, you speak for it, and your business needs leadership.
 
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MTF

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So why aren’t there 6 Tony's Italian Deli in the city? Why not 6 more in Dallas? Chicago? Miami? LA? Why aren't there at least 20 of them?
Perhaps they just don't want to grow bigger and are content being the best, not the biggest. Not everyone is interested in building a huge business. They wouldn't be ranked number 1 in the entire country if they were like your typical Subway.

This amazing sandwich joint will probably die when they retire. Sucks for you guys!
Or it won't. One of the oldest companies in the world is Nishiyama Onsen Keiunkan, a hot spring hotel in Japan. It was founded in 705 AD and has been operated by 52 generations of the same family for over 1,300 years.

Pretty sure they'll still be around in a 1000 years.

Perhaps the reason why they're still around is because they didn't obsess about building a big business. Instead, they focused on building a great business, even if its scale is limited to just one location.

The owners of Tony's Italian Deli are probably much happier running their little restaurant and personally greeting their regulars by name than running a huge, soulless corporation.

I like the concept of thinking bigger, but there are other ways to grow than just growing bigger. Not every entrepreneur wants to build a huge business and become a billionaire. A lot just want to have a great business that fits their lifestyle, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Kak

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Perhaps they just don't want to grow bigger and are content being the best, not the biggest. Not everyone is interested in building a huge business. They wouldn't be ranked number 1 in the entire country if they were like your typical Subway.



Or it won't. One of the oldest companies in the world is Nishiyama Onsen Keiunkan, a hot spring hotel in Japan. It was founded in 705 AD and has been operated by 52 generations of the same family for over 1,300 years.

Pretty sure they'll still be around in a 1000 years.

Perhaps the reason why they're still around is because they didn't obsess about building a big business. Instead, they focused on building a great business, even if its scale is limited to just one location.

The owners of Tony's Italian Deli are probably much happier running their little restaurant and personally greeting their regulars by name than running a huge, soulless corporation.

I like the concept of thinking bigger, but there are other ways to grow than just growing bigger. Not every entrepreneur wants to build a huge business and become a billionaire. A lot just want to have a great business that fits their lifestyle, and there's nothing wrong with that.
What exactly is your point? That I made an assumption that they want more money and they might not? How presumptive of me!

You are making your own assumption that they want to fart around with a 100k operation into their 70s.

Add either one of our assumptions and my point, that leadership is required beyond just a good product and service if you want to grow, still stands.

I PERSONALLY believe the whole "we don't want to grow" notion is rooted in pisspoor leadership, self doubt and a misunderstanding of the ability to leverage time. I can't however prove that.

I am not suggesting they become soulless. I am not suggesting that they try to "run" a multinational corporation. I asked why don't they even have 20 locations. Because they absolutely could.
 
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I am not suggesting they become soulless. I am not suggesting that they try to "run" a multinational corporation. I asked why don't they even have 20 locations. Because they absolutely could.
Speaking of soulless...

I understand that there's still a lot of hate on corporations. But I'm sure they have to be there for a reason.

With a few hundred thousand customers and gazillions of complaint/feedback/sales channels, how might you work on staying true to your customers, even when things have gotten big? I know it might need a different approach than the time the business was once small.

This might be a crucial component to help the Tony's restaurant to hypothetically spread out.
 

Kak

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View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxlWeoa53s


One of my awesome incubator folks sent me this video. It is EXCELLENT. I highly recommend it. It fully embodies Think Bigger and it also is opposite of what I would ever call soulless.

Very inventive, but still a lot of amazing entrepreneurial lessons within.
 
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MTEE1985

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One of my awesome incubator folks sent me this video. It is EXCELLENT. I highly recommend it. It fully embodies Think Bigger and it also is opposite of what I would ever call soulless.

Very inventive, but still a lot of amazing entrepreneurial lessons within.
First video link on the forum I’ve actually clicked on.

Loved the first 10 minutes and will go finish it now. Thanks for the share and please transfer these rep points to the appropriate person (assuming they’re a forum member)
 
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Atu

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I PERSONALLY believe the whole "we don't want to grow" notion is rooted in pisspoor leadership, self doubt and a misunderstanding of the ability to leverage time. I can't however prove that.
Dear Sir, there is a proof for that: McDonald's: Behind The Arches by John F. Love
And here: The Founder (2016) - IMDb

To those who have no time to read the excellent book: Mc Donald Brothers tried the franchise path, but failed. They were explicitly saying: "We don't want to grow". Mister Ray Kroc stepped in and by using his leadership powers built the multi-million company, that in fact changed the world.

My own conclusion is: If you have something valuable, you better use it for something good. If you try to limit your good, life will punish you.
 

Kak

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Dear Sir, there is a proof for that: McDonald's: Behind The Arches by John F. Love
And here: The Founder (2016) - IMDb

To those who have no time to read the excellent book: Mc Donald Brothers tried the franchise path, but failed. They were explicitly saying: "We don't want to grow". Mister Ray Kroc stepped in and by using his leadership powers built the multi-million company, that in fact changed the world.

My own conclusion is: If you have something valuable, you better use it for something good. If you try to limit your good, life will punish you.
While I find Ray Croc’s treatment of the original proprietors ethically questionable and could have been done much better... His vision and leadership was unquestionably more sophisticated than them. He outclassed them in every way and this is a perfect example.

I am convinced though that people that say they don’t want to grow out loud literally don’t have any understanding of time leverage.

Who do you think works worse hours? The owner operator sandwich shop where the owner literally has one day off a week and never gets vacation.... OR.... The businessman that owns 8 restaurants and is looking at his 9th and 10th. I know who.
 
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Kak

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It's been approx. a year. Can't believe I'm still rereading this thread. As you said it is:

An ongoing thread, a reminder at all times to think bigger.
Wow! It feels like yesterday I was fascinated by the high speed rail project. It is such a cool deal. The support is strong around the state.

Bottom line. They became the experts, took it one day at a time, and built something that is already amazing. They built a team that will complete one of, if not the, first truly high speed railways in the United States.
 
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Andy Black

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One of my awesome incubator folks sent me this video. It is EXCELLENT. I highly recommend it. It fully embodies Think Bigger and it also is opposite of what I would ever call soulless.

Very inventive, but still a lot of amazing entrepreneurial lessons within.
I love how he sees everything so simply.


Paraphrasing:

The more you have, the greater your responsibility to give back.

Don’t treat the illness. Treat the wellness.

Find The ONE Thing that impacts hundreds of other things.

If it’s not a slam-dunk, then why are you doing it?

Is it useful? Is it entertaining? If it’s neither then it’s useless.

Our job is to simplify the complicated. Consultants complicate the simple.

Experts know how things used to be done, not necessarily how things should be done going forward.

The biggest inventions come from two guys in a garage, not 500 PhDs.
 

MTF

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Bottom line. They became the experts, took it one day at a time and built something that is already amazing. A team that will complete one of if not the first truly high speed railway in the United States.
This will be a very stupid comparison because of the scale, but I think it's important to emphasize what you said here.

Last week I talked with the owners of a goat farm (an "organic" one, not an industrial one) who moved from a big city to the countryside. They knew nothing about goats when they started, and there were very few resources available to learn about it.

Guess what...

Yeah, they made some very stupid mistakes, but in the end learned everything themselves and now own a successful, growing farm—despite knowing absolutely nothing about it in the beginning.

Running a goat farm is not like starting an online business with relatively few negative consequences. If you screw up when buying goats and managing their health, your entire herd can die (and they were extremely lucky it didn't happen to them). If you screw up when making any dairy products, someone can get sick and you'll get sued. And lastly, if for any reason you fail to learn something, your entire investment in the farm is gone (not many real estate buyers in the middle of nowhere).

Most people today (and I'd say primarily young people who seem to be less reliant than the previous generations) would probably never consider starting something in which they have no experience. They wouldn't start unless they had everything explained to them step-by-step, with ideally another person overseeing everything so that they don't have to become the actual experts.

This leaves many fields wide open for those who are willing to risk looking stupid, willing to suffer from frustrating learning experiences, and willing to expand their knowledge to an area that might be completely different than their current skill-set.
 

Kak

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After an in depth discussion about a facet of the medical industry with one of my Kill Bigger incubator folks. I want to give a book recommendation of very high praise for some very interesting reasons.

The book... Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies of a Silicon Valley Startup.
https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Blood-Secrets-Silicon-Startup/dp/152473165X

It documents Theranos, a blood testing startup and entrepreneur Elizabeth Holmes.

It undoubtedly tells the story of reprehensible lies and deception, however it also shows effective and ineffective leadership synchronously.

What interests me in stories like these about schemers like Bernie Madoff and and drug dealers like Escobar. The brain behind the operation could have been highly successful in a legitimate venture.

In Elizabeth’s case, what she actually built, a world class team, a portfolio of investors, and countless interested customers, was amazing visionary leadership. She alone attracted money and talent. (Because there wasn’t much of a product) This is leadership.

She was also an a**hole to her team and created a toxic environment later on. Eventually we find that the whole concept was unproven and the investors, customers, and stakeholders were lied to at various stages in the process. Shit leadership.

For the startup phase if you take Elizabeth’s model, add a great product or service, subtract the deceit, you too can build something bigger than you, from zero to one, on visionary leadership.
 
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Kak

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“Why not?”

I have to admit something to the forum. It is not something I am proud of... but nonetheless here goes... I, Kak, have limiting beliefs.

What? I'm supposed to be the "think big" guy. Yeah. I don't think big enough.

Anyway, I thought I should take my own advice and share a few things. I take pride in the fact that I am a PRODUCER FIRST and a consumer distant second. The problem is, I find myself OFTEN limiting what I think I will be willing to buy despite my business, one day, potentially letting me afford something far more expensive. I am not saying expensive is better... Oh wait it is.

It goes a little like this... “I could never have a Rolls Royce because I drive 30k miles a year and I would trash it. They don’t last long enough.”

“Why would anyone buy/fly a G6 they’re 60 million dollars and they cost 8k an hour to run. I can get a Cessna CJ from 1989 that only costs 900k and 850 bucks an hour.”

“I would never buy that car new, that’s just stupid.”

“I can get more house for my money in this neighborhood than this one.”

“10 million dollar homes? What the hell would I do with all of that room?”

What it boils down to is lying to myself. It is the same damn thing as someone with no money saying “I don’t care about money.” It is crap.

Would I rather change the world than not? Yes. Do people change the world? Yes. So it is possible? Yes.

Would I rather have a G650 than a 1980s Cessna Jet? Yes. Do people own G650s? Yes. So it is possible? Yes.

Would I rather pick everything about my car? Make it new? Make it a Rolls Royce? Yes. Do people buy them new? Yes. So it is possible? Yes.

Would I rather live in a stately 10 million dollar manor than a 1m dollar house? Yes. Do people actually buy these homes? Yes. So it is possible? Yes.

So they make mansions, Rolls Royces, exclusive country clubs, yachts, and Gulfstream Jets for someone... There are people that are literally buying them every day... Why not me? Why not you?

Why not? I think that is a good question to start asking.

Whether I actually buy crap like this or not... I want to not have a problem affording said item.
 

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It goes a little like this... “I could never have a Rolls Royce because I drive 30k miles a year and I would trash it. They don’t last long enough.”

“Why would anyone buy/fly a G6 they’re 60 million dollars and they cost 8k an hour to run. I can get a Cessna CJ from 1989 that only costs 900k and 850 bucks an hour.”

“I would never buy that car new, that’s just stupid.”

“I can get more house for my money in this neighborhood than this one.”

“10 million dollar homes? What the hell would I do with all of that room?”

What it boils down to is lying to myself. It is the same damn thing as someone with no money saying “I don’t care about money.” It is crap.
I'd like to add that for some people (particularly those who don't care about living a billionaire lifestyle) these are actually not limiting beliefs. It's just how you perceive the world and value, something closer to maths and life philosophy than the mindset.

For example, I would never pay $500 for dinner. It doesn't matter if I can afford it or not, I just consider it ridiculous to spend so much money on something I don't care about that is highly unlikely to be that much better than a $50 dinner.

As for something like spending $60 million on G6 or 900k for a Cessna, I'm not a billionaire so this is probably beyond my understanding, but would spending almost 67x more money result in a 67x improvement, or even at least a 10x improvement? If not, I'd venture out to say that it's a bad deal no matter if you can afford it or not.

Obviously, for some people $60 million is like $600 for another guy, so maybe at this level they just don't look at value in the same way. Still, I think that a lot of people, even when they're wealthy, want to get the most value for the money. Like everyone else, they don't want to be overcharged or get little additional value after spending several times more than a regular person.

Also, beyond maths, unnecessary spending is wasteful. If you truly want to live in a $10 million mansion, I have nothing against it at all. But a lot of people just wouldn't use 90% of the rooms of the area and so they would greatly overpay for what they actually use. The question whether they can afford it or not is yet again irrelevant. The point is that they spent $10 million where spending $1 million might have been sufficient, and they'd have $9 million to spend on other things that would give them more utility or value in any other form.

In the same way, it makes little sense to buy expensive stuff that you're only going to use once a year (like a yacht) or go to a restaurant, order six meals just because you can, and then eat only one.

But just to emphasize it one last time, this is highly personal. I genuinely don't want to live in a huge mansion or drive a luxury car so I have a different perspective on this. Not a better one, just different. Yours is just as reasonable considering that you really do want these things. You operate on a different level than most people here and if you think that these are limiting beliefs, then you're probably right.
 

Kak

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I'd like to add that for some people (particularly those who don't care about living a billionaire lifestyle) these are actually not limiting beliefs. It's just how you perceive the world and value, something closer to maths and life philosophy than the mindset.

For example, I would never pay $500 for dinner. It doesn't matter if I can afford it or not, I just consider it ridiculous to spend so much money on something I don't care about that is highly unlikely to be that much better than a $50 dinner.

As for something like spending $60 million on G6 or 900k for a Cessna, I'm not a billionaire so this is probably beyond my understanding, but would spending almost 67x more money result in a 67x improvement, or even at least a 10x improvement? If not, I'd venture out to say that it's a bad deal no matter if you can afford it or not.

Obviously, for some people $60 million is like $600 for another guy, so maybe at this level they just don't look at value in the same way. Still, I think that a lot of people, even when they're wealthy, want to get the most value for the money. Like everyone else, they don't want to be overcharged or get little additional value after spending several times more than a regular person.

Also, beyond maths, unnecessary spending is wasteful. If you truly want to live in a $10 million mansion, I have nothing against it at all. But a lot of people just wouldn't use 90% of the rooms of the area and so they would greatly overpay for what they actually use. The question whether they can afford it or not is yet again irrelevant. The point is that they spent $10 million where spending $1 million might have been sufficient, and they'd have $9 million to spend on other things that would give them more utility or value in any other form.

In the same way, it makes little sense to buy expensive stuff that you're only going to use once a year (like a yacht) or go to a restaurant, order six meals just because you can, and then eat only one.

But just to emphasize it one last time, this is highly personal. I genuinely don't want to live in a huge mansion or drive a luxury car so I have a different perspective on this. Not a better one, just different. Yours is just as reasonable considering that you really do want these things. You operate on a different level than most people here and if you think that these are limiting beliefs, then you're probably right.

Good points, I must admit. Let me rephrase it then...

Let’s say these items were free. Life, for the sake of argument, is all inclusive. You could pick the way you travel. You could pick the car or cars you drive. You could have dinner wherever you want. You could just drive around and pick a home, any home, and just move in.

What would your life look like? How is that different that what you limit yourself to in your real life goal setting? Why the delta?

That is really more the point I am trying to make.

Don’t tell me you would rather fly the airlines than driving up to a big beautiful jet and leaving for your destination in 10 minutes.
 
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Don’t tell me you would rather fly the airlines than driving up to a big beautiful jet and leaving for your destination in 10 minutes.
Ha that is one aspect of being a billionaire that I do think is definitely worth it as it's not like driving an expensive car and drawing attention to yourself wherever you go.
 

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