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HOT TOPIC The Undercover Billionaire: Building a $1m business in 90 days

shaitand

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First post, joined today just to post this.

The chances of you being unbiased are extremely low. I am not sure what your purpose of being here is but it's certainly not the same as the rest of us. I will choose not to engage further
It's no big mystery, this thread was indexed by Google and found in relation to the show. So it has nothing to do with the book or specific subset of information this forum is about although I have begun poking around.

My point is really just that it isn't a treadmill because the growth isn't linear but quadratic. If you graph the difficulty of wealth growth it would be a curve and not a diagonal line. It really doesn't change the validity of concepts I've seen here now that I'm poking around but recognizing that growth pattern helps explain why the possibility for those 16/17/18/19 which I have seen expressed is so low.
 

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It's no big mystery, this thread was indexed by Google and found in relation to the show. So it has nothing to do with the book or specific subset of information this forum is about although I have begun poking around.

My point is really just that it isn't a treadmill because the growth isn't linear but quadratic. If you graph the difficulty of wealth growth it would be a curve and not a diagonal line. It really doesn't change the validity of concepts I've seen here now that I'm poking around but recognizing that growth pattern helps explain why the possibility for those 16/17/18/19 which I have seen expressed is so low.
Yeah, we've had three episodes now and there are definitely some issues both with what we've seen and what they've revealed we are going to see. SPOILERS ahead I guess?

His first concept was to steal things from unguarded property and sell them. Tires specifically but in general he looked for things to take. He considered a set in a dumpster which would likely be legal but otherwise he looked on railroad and other not currently occupied properties. The tires he ultimately found and sold for $1600 weren't abandoned in trash so that is a first degree misdemeanor in PA, if he'd gotten just $400 more it would have been a felony offense. Most wealthy people have a zero tolerance and crucify them view of thieves and he is advocating stealing railroad property on the first day.

The unlicensed streetside vending was also illegal even if just a fine.

His used insurance and only paid a $250 co-pay for what was almost certainly several thousand dollars worth of ER care needed because was living out of that truck.

He hasn't been paying for gas. He wouldn't have gotten through his first week without gas and his entire initial plan was to burn it up like crazy driving around to steal other people's stuff and sell it.

He is parking vehicles on someone's property by the road to sell them without consent or payment. Again, a run down building doesn't make it public property. You can't just derive value from it without consent.

They didn't actually show his conversations with his "team" and how he convinced them to work without payment but working without payment is a labor law violation. He needs to pay all of them, including himself and not just the future ownership stake he indicated he wasn't going to tell them about. If he is actually getting them to work on such terms he and they are likely to run afoul of the IRS since they are dodging social security, employment taxes, etc.

When he rented his apartment they also glossed over the standard requirement for proof of income that is 3-4x rent or deposits for utilities.

His current plan is to increase capital by gathering a $10,000 for a house. Someone who is that level of poor and unemployed couldn't qualify for a mortgage with or without a downpayment.

The biggest cheat is probably the camera crew and documentary cover though. The SBDC is a great resource but they aren't going to put in that kind of time and personal attention for most people walking in the door. The business owners, potential hires, were probably at least partially swayed by him being worthy of that kind of attention and by the fact they are getting free advertising.

So a real person would be broke, dehydrated and possibly dead or have a bill for several thousand dollars, fined, and in jail doing what he has done by episode 3.
So what does this tell us? Labor laws in the US are probative and hurt people trying to get ahead.

I'm enjoying your input in this thread, and you're obviously an intelligent guy. But it's known that we generally use our cognitive faculties to rationalize our preconceived biases mores than using the same faculties to get to an objective truth.

All of your cognitive faculties seem to be devoted to proving one overarching hueristic: poor people are pretty much doomed. It's a heuristic.

You seem like a lot of people I know: a well-educated, compassionate liberal (or somewhere left of center,) using their intelligence to backwards rationalize political views.

He's not trying to prove that any homeless guy can become a multimillionaire, and he's certainly not trying to to rub his success in the face of the impoverished. He's not making any grand political or societal statements. He's simply curious if he can do it.

But the impoverished (as well as those who advocate for them) are going to be offended by this because it creates cognitive dissonance. Right now they're completely comfortable believing that the game is rigged and the reason they can't get ahead is because of X, Y, and Z factor that's outside their control. When they see evidence that this might not be the case, it challenges their entire worldview. So you start to see all these mental backflips. "He has this advantage (a cellphone,)" "he has that advantage (a truck.)" Seriously? The bottom line is he has less advantage than 98% of people in America. Like you want the guy to be straight up living in a homeless shelter then making a million dollars? I bet he would do it too. But that would be a political statement.

So you think that doing a few rule bending things is the only reason he's succeeding? You think he couldn't do it otherwise? Building a $1M business in 90 days is not a small feat. So what if he had to build a $1M in 180 days, while rigorously following all labor laws to the T? Do you think that's the one thing that would make the difference?

On a micro scale, you may be right, but as far as the overarching thesis...I definitely don't think that him bending a few rules or having a cellphone is the only reason he's going to succeed at this.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Wow 6 pages which I haven't read on a reality TV show I haven't watched. Should I set the DVR?
 

shaitand

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@shaitand .... now write a similar post showing the good things he has done and things we could learn from this ..... balance ......
Fair enough, it just wasn't the discussion at the point I hopped on. Even with the nitpicks, he has reduced himself to a very low starting point which means he is showing a path to everyone. He is successively scaling up his seed into higher dollar returns which is good. He needs to grow capital.

I disagree with the lottery assessment. Everything carries risk, he is mitigating, managing, and calculating risk. The items he was trying to scavenge can be found where he was looking, are valued highly because they are used for high dollar operations not because they are uncommon. Expanding his time to search was more like a raffle where he is stuffing the ballot box with many many tickets.

The trinket sales and other small efforts were just a way to extend his survival time to let him keep stuffing the box until he won and in relative terms the reward was high enough to justify it. His actual margin was about 400% which is repeatable, the margin on the trinkets was a one off with a 400% return. That took him to a higher tier of capital growth with cars. The margin is 200-400% on his car deals. Noticing a pattern? He is scaling his capital growth.

Even the business itself would normally be another way to grow the capital, you build it up to be valued high and then sell it. A business more or less gets valued on a multiple of years revenue projection so you get someone who will pay future profits now and take the future revenue alongside dumping all the risk. Take the capital return and start a few of them and do the same thing again.

At that point it depends on your goal. Your capital seed is large enough for passive traditional investments with lower risk/lower reward. There is a little secret, when you start spreading across many investments you are reducing the impact of a failure but increasing the probability that a failure will occur. Mathematically, that is going to be very important to remember if you want to keep your money at this stage.
 

shaitand

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Seriously? The bottom line is he has less advantage than 98% of people in America.
But that isn't actually accurate. His credit advantage puts him ahead of most of the population. Only 57% of the population have a FICO score over 700 and most of them are located in the large cities.

The difference between the liberal you describe and me is that I support and believe in the game but want to see a more level playing field. The measures people at the top are taking to limit their own risk (credit scores, income requirements, etc) come directly at the expense of the people with the steepest challenge in improving their situation.

He is stating that he is trying to prove the American dream is alive. The american dream isn't alive if it isn't accessible to 43% of the population. The issue is that when you don't have financial intelligence you will "struggle" no matter how much you have in the middle class so you think when you were cash poor in college is what that looks like. The difference between that existence is actually being poor is huge. The difference between being poor and destitute is even more massive.

You look at the gas and figure, ah it's maybe $50, big deal. You look at that truck and figure it's only maybe $1200. You look at that phone and figure everybody has a phone. Make that truck a car and he can't haul things anymore, slash a massive swath of opportunities. You also take away his shelter. Take away that phone which everybody most definitely does not have and his entire ability to research opportunities and locate buyers efficiently disappears, so do most of his gig opportunities. That phone doesn't cost a few dollars, it costs money every month. You need an address even to activate a pre-paid.

Yeah, it's about $2k. That is nothing to me and probably nothing to you all said and done, after all, with those advantages he several times that in a couple weeks and secured an apartment (something you can't really do anymore and likely soon won't be able to do at all without both a decent credit score and stable income 3-4x the rent).

These are not advantages 98% of the population has, they are a strategic selection of massive advantages that provide a huge swath of opportunities to someone looking for them which nearly half the population doesn't have. Take them away and there aren't nearly as many opportunities which exist regardless of how you hustle and efforts to make things like food, shelter, transportation, education, and internet access a basic right are generally opposed by the people who've built success on those same advantages. It is a way to keep out the competition and enjoy the tax benefits of risk while minimizing the actual risk. It is no different than labor protection laws or the codes and regulations those in the trades use to prevent competition.

All that is without accounting for the TV crew and the advantages that brings. He could have used a button cam in all his initial interactions with other people.

For the 57% of the population who do have those advantages available to them... this show is for you and you are crazy if you aren't paying attention. For the other 43%... I'm not saying there aren't ways just that we acknowledge there is a dramatically higher probability those people can spend their lives putting in a sincere effort to find them and still come up empty. 98% of the population don't put in that effort and pretending otherwise is where the left is wrong.
 
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Kak

Kak

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But that isn't actually accurate. His credit advantage puts him ahead of most of the population. Only 57% of the population have a FICO score over 700 and most of them are located in the large cities.
I haven't seen him use credit once. Give it a rest.

The 43% need to take responsibility for their lives just like the rest of us did. Good credit doesn't happen by accident. They don't live in a vacuum devoid of the ability to improve themselves.

I bet locus of control correlates to the opinions in this discussion.
 
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Take this over to sports. The kids on my basketball team aren't going to be 6 ft+ tall, their dad did not play in the NBA, etc. ...... do you agree they would be better off watching a video on dribbling from Steph Curry than one from you?

Should we completely discredit his dribbling video because my kids don't have a shoe contract like he does? Or should we try to learn something from someone that might see things in a different light and teach us something?
 

shaitand

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I haven't seen him use credit once. Give it a rest.

The 43% need to take responsibility for their lives just like the rest of us did. They don't live in a vacuum devoid of the ability to improve themselves.

I bet locus of control correlates to the opinions in this discussion.
He has stated his intention is to get enough for a down payment to flip a house on just this last episode. That is using credit. He rented an apartment. That is using credit AND establishing income but they skipped that part of the conversation and instead just showed the haggle around the security deposit. These are things I've explained, now three times. I also explicitly stated I wasn't saying there weren't other ways for people in that position to be successful and that is what people on the left get wrong. Which is basically the same thing as "They don't live in a vacuum devoid of ability to improve themselves."

I'm not really going anywhere with this other than what I've already stated. I'm not sure why you feel some need to stand up straw men of my arguments and beat them down. Give it a rest.

You might be right about the concept of the Locus of control but that test is pretty loaded.

Lets look at an example.

"In the long run, people get the respect they deserve in this world.
Unfortunately, an individual's worth often passes unrecognized no matter how hard he tries."

Pick one.

Change up the phrasing.

"In the long run, people are more likely to get respect if they deserve it."
"Unfortunately, an individuals worth passes unrecognized no matter how hard he tries."

Now pick one.

If you picked this "In the long run, people get the respect they deserve in this world" OR this "Unfortunately, an individuals worth passes unrecognized no matter how hard he tries." you need to pick up a book on Critical thinking.

Essentially every question contains one option that is an absolute blanket assertion and another which is only a tendency but allows for exceptions. In other words, since absolutes are illogical there is only one logical conclusion no matter your personal leanings on internal vs external control. That is just a measure of how many times someone will illogically select an absolute assertion.
 

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I disagree with the lottery assessment. Everything carries risk, he is mitigating, managing, and calculating risk. The items he was trying to scavenge can be found where he was looking, are valued highly because they are used for high dollar operations not because they are uncommon. Expanding his time to search was more like a raffle where he is stuffing the ballot box with many many tickets.

The trinket sales and other small efforts were just a way to extend his survival time to let him keep stuffing the box until he won and in relative terms the reward was high enough to justify it.
You'd probably enjoy MJ's video on this concept if you haven't run across it before:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYBtdmJWoTc
 

shaitand

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Take this over to sports. The kids on my basketball team aren't going to be 6 ft+ tall, their dad did not play in the NBA, etc. ...... do you agree they would be better off watching a video on dribbling from Steph Curry than one from you?

Should we completely discredit his dribbling video because my kids don't have a shoe contract like he does? Or should we try to learn something from someone that might see things in a different light and teach us something?

This is exactly the reason I'm watching the show. If you are smart there is more to be learned than he intends to teach even.

There are two different streams of conversation here. One is about what the guy is asserting he will have done if he succeeds, "prove the american dream is alive" and that seems to be where I'm clashing with a few people, probably because of their politics. Really, I'd just as soon move beyond that. I think it is important to accurately assess the board and the impact of the pieces on play when I play a strategy game and that is what life is.

The other is about whether someone interested in being an entrepreneur will learn something from it. I think someone with aspirations to be an entrepreneur should definitely watch this.

A man I looked up to as kid once told me "life is a game and shekels are how you keep score, don't let anyone tell you otherwise."

I was a high school dropout with my actual parents on food stamps when he said that. Life has been a struggle but at this point I'm an Engineer pulling a solid six figures for a blue chip company who can step into a similar position at most any major tech company at will. I receive recruitment attempts from Amazon and Google at least a couple times a month. I make more than the man who told me that made, have a higher net worth, and I'm about 20 years younger. That income doesn't come with nearly as much wealth as it should.

Now I'm looking to start shifting to wealth and income from entrepreneurship. In a way I have more challenges, I have a wife and child and that wife is only going to tolerate so much discomfort for so long and we also have expenses. Replacing $15k/mo income is going to be a challenge since that income also requires a great deal of my time but I'll get there.

Those are the struggles, the advantage is I have a big cash stream, equity in a home, another home we've just inherited that is paid off but in need of repairs, and a couple hundred k in retirement funds. Growing that wealth to a million in 7 years isn't the challenge. I need to grow it into enough passive income to replace my salary in 7 years and a million in solid and reliable investments would only optimistically do half that but it would snowball and accelerate. I want to grow to a million in capital in a year not seven and have my goal 2m goal in three and by 10 my first billion.
 

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MakeItHappen

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issue is that when you don't have financial intelligence you will "struggle"
Well to me that's not an issue but reality.
If you can't handle money you won't have much of it.
If you can't handle your diet you won't be slim and healthy.
If you can't handle relationships you won't have many friends.

What is it about money that people get irrational about what's fair and what isn't.

If you have a lot of money people what you to give it to the poor.

Well if that's what fair is I want a tax on beauty and health, too. Oh, and I want a tax on happy marriages. Otherwise it's unfair Top all the people that don't have it.

Take them away and there aren't nearly as many opportunities which exist regardless of how you hustle
Well, he has 90(!!!!!) days to make a million. Take away the truck, smart phone and $100 but gives ihm 365 days instead of 90 and he would crush it too.

It is not the resources that let him succeed but time and his resourcefulness.
 

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but want to see a more level playing field.
I grew up poor. My family lived on welfare. I was kicked out of school by the age of 16. Moved out of my house around the time I turned 17 and never went back. Went on to make a few million.

I am a risk taker. Always have been. I also look for angles that help leverage. Nobody that knew me thought that I would succeed. I did not listen to them though.

Your way of thinking does not match this forum.
 

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I want to grow to a million in capital in a year not seven and have my goal 2m goal in three and by 10 my first billion.
Don’t worry - if you already have a phone you’re 90% there.
 

VigilantCMDR

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Honestly since the show is still new, we should make a thread and discuss it episode by episode if we think it is scripted or not.

I think it'd be worthwhile, but that's just my 2cents.
 

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I was a high school dropout with my actual parents on food stamps when he said that. Life has been a struggle but at this point I'm an Engineer pulling a solid six figures for a blue chip company who can step into a similar position at most any major tech company at will. I receive recruitment attempts from Amazon and Google at least a couple times a month. I make more than the man who told me that made, have a higher net worth, and I'm about 20 years younger. That income doesn't come with nearly as much wealth as it should.

Now I'm looking to start shifting to wealth and income from entrepreneurship. In a way I have more challenges, I have a wife and child and that wife is only going to tolerate so much discomfort for so long and we also have expenses. Replacing $15k/mo income is going to be a challenge since that income also requires a great deal of my time but I'll get there.

Those are the struggles, the advantage is I have a big cash stream, equity in a home, another home we've just inherited that is paid off but in need of repairs, and a couple hundred k in retirement funds. Growing that wealth to a million in 7 years isn't the challenge. I need to grow it into enough passive income to replace my salary in 7 years and a million in solid and reliable investments would only optimistically do half that but it would snowball and accelerate. I want to grow to a million in capital in a year not seven and have my goal 2m goal in three and by 10 my first billion.
Okay... So I answered before reading your entire post.

What exactly is your point? You made it through the engineering program and have done well. You are also on the right track with your direction. So, what is the issue? Why can't everyone do it?
 
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shaitand

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Well to me that's not an issue but reality.
If you can't handle money you won't have much of it.
If you can't handle your diet you won't be slim and healthy.
If you can't handle relationships you won't have many friends.

What is it about money that people get irrational about what's fair and what isn't.
Yeah but can you not handle money/diet/relationships because you suck or because there is something you don't know or understand that others aren't letting you in on? That is going to vary with individual of course but financial intelligence and knowledge takes care of that on the money part. Some people have all the merit and just haven't pieced together the puzzle yet, others have the solution alongside starting resources by previous generations.

There are lot of reasons people want things to be fair. I'm not talking about fair, I'm talking about a level playing field. There is a mathematician named John Nash. John Nash discovered a concept of group dynamics and a movie about him expressed the concept in a simple way. He and friends at a bar looked at a group of girls coming in. John explained that they could all go after the 9 and maybe one person gets laid which is your typical capitalist mindset. But if instead they all work together to impress the whole group without going after any particular girl they increase the probability not only that everyone gets laid but that any individual in their group gets laid at all, in fact the difference is so significant that going the first route the probability of nobody getting laid is quite high and in the second group strategy the probability that none of them get laid is extremely low.

Our "group" is the united states and a level playing field increases the chance that we can all move up to the investment class... there is a whole world full of girls we can lay and if we collaborate in a group strategy there is a much better chance for all of us of getting laid... err wealthy. You actually lower your chance of getting wealthy by purely being out for yourself. That is just math... quite advanced statistics actually and the guy won a nobel for it but as definitive as 2+2.
 

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If you want to make this challenge “everyone” friendly it would be impossible.

As you drop the bar lower and lower someone will still have an even lower level.

“Okay ya but he was still in America”

“Ya but he actually went to school and can read and write”

“He can speak English though”

When it comes to a challenge like this you got to pick a reasonable base.

His starting point is very reasonable.

To ask him to account for everyone would be like having a survival show where the person dropped in to the jungle is morbidly obese and has a sugar addiction.

Bottom line - it’s TV, not the Olympics or a scientific experiment. You can take valuable lessons from this and apply it to your own set up. Or you can pick small holes and provide to everyone else how much mindset holds most people back.
 

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He is stating that he is trying to prove the American dream is alive. The american dream isn't alive if it isn't accessible to 43% of the population. The issue is that when you don't have financial intelligence you will "struggle" no matter how much you have in the middle class so you think when you were cash poor in college is what that looks like. The difference between that existence is actually being poor is huge. The difference between being poor and destitute is even more massive.
There are various personality factors that predict wealth. See my previous post:

You're right. The game is rigged. It's rigged in favor of those who work hard and are smart. Ones who have an internal Locus of Control and see obstacles as challenges rather than roadblocks. The game is seriously rigged in their favor.

I presented data in another thread showing the best statistical markers for various measures of success (income, extrinsic success, occupational status) and by far the top predictors were Intelligence and Conscientiousness (which is basically, the propensity to work hard and do a good job.)

26666

Who wins? Smart people who work hard. That's how the game is rigged.
I don't know to what extent external circumstances factor into wealth, but if you have any numbers on it, I would actually love to see it.

But what you make has a lot to do with who you are as a person.

Let's take Joe Underachiever and John Achiever.

You give Joe Underachiever even $10,000, do you really think he's going to use it to build a viable business? No he's gonna buy lottery tickets and other dumb bullshit. The $10,000 is significantly more resources than a truck and a cellphone.

But on the other hand you give Joe Achiever the same $10,000 and what does he do? He says "I don't need $10,000... just give me a truck and a cellphone and I'll build a million dollar corperation in 90 days" :p

Access to capitalism a veryyyy small part of building wealth. We see it all day on this forum. Someone has $50,000 to invest, and doesn't achieve much financially. But then you get someone who has $6, a pack of gum and the drive to succeed and bootstrap a million dollar business. We see it all the time on here.

You're neglecting differences in personality. It's something akin to the opposite of a Fundamental Attribution Error.

I mean if you want to argue the role of perhaps genetics in Intelligence and Personality, and how that contributes to achievement, then we can talk. But to just argue that someone can't make it just due to a lack of capital is fictitious.

Re: credit... has he used credit yet? Unless he's actually borrowing money, we're nitpicking. They check your score when renting but I'm sure he could have succeed without an apartment.

If he flips a house purchased off credit, then yes. That's cheating.

But your assessment of the 'unfairness of the credit system' can be discredited with a simple thought experiment. Your sister Sally never pays you back when you lend her money. She wants to borrow $500. Your sister Sam also wants to borrow money but always pays you back on time. Who do you lend money to? It's common sense really... people won't lend money to people with low credit scores because they don't pay it back. It's not some anti-Marxist conspiracy. You pay back your loans on time, you get good credit. You default on a bunch and no one is gonna want to lend you money. And rightfully so.

You look at the gas and figure, ah it's maybe $50, big deal. You look at that truck and figure it's only maybe $1200. You look at that phone and figure everybody has a phone. Make that truck a car and he can't haul things anymore, slash a massive swath of opportunities. You also take away his shelter. Take away that phone which everybody most definitely does not have and his entire ability to research opportunities and locate buyers efficiently disappears, so do most of his gig opportunities. That phone doesn't cost a few dollars, it costs money every month. You need an address even to activate a pre-paid.
Come on dude... it's 2019. Even homeless people have cellphones (and I mean that literally, I see homeless people with phones all the time.)

Access to capital is only a small part. Personality is a huge factor in building wealth. See this thread:

 

MakeItHappen

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There are lot of reasons people want things to be fair. I'm not talking about fair, I'm talking about a level playing field
I am all for it.
In my opinion in many ways it was never easier to become successful in the first world given that you are willing to do whatever it takes.
All the knowledge of the world can be found online... for free.

Things can always be better but if you REALLY want to succeed and you have what it takes you can absolutely do it.

You actually lower your chance of getting wealthy by purely being out for yourself.
Of course, it's all about providing value for others... customers, business partners, employees etc.
 

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I love the difference in opinions of the people watching the show.

He's talking to an attorney on the phone about getting a liquor license. True, a poor person wouldn't be able to afford a 15 minute conversation with one.

He finds (or steals) tires are sells them. That might be illegal.

The SBA place let's him do an open casting for team members, as do a local pub. Would a local place really let a person do that? I don't know.

So let me tell you what I learned in this episode.

Call an attorney and let them tell you the rules vs. sitting at home and googling it. He had a phone, I'm sure he could have read all that info. But he's used to asking and paying people for answers and advice. I need to do that more often.

When he found the tires, he didn't even attempt to put them in his truck and drive to another location. Probably because he couldn't pick them up himself. I probably would have been embarrassed to sell them at that location or I would have been afraid that the buyer would have said, "you just found these here and now you want $1500?". But the value he provided was in the finding of the tires, not the presentation or location of the sale. Limiting belief on my part.

I could have hired using an open casting like him. I was thinking, how many people could I have interviewed in the span of one day this way. I would have put something like "looking for people who volunteer at dog rescues."

I don't care that he's not paying for gas, food, etc... How does showing that part pertain to me learning from him?

I watch the show and see him pick up $700 car and sell it for $4200. They don't go over the signing over of the title, no notary, etc... But that stuff is for people that need all the directions given to them. Can you find a $1500 car worth $7000? It's probably pretty hard, but that's not the point. Here's what I learned... Go in a car dealer and see if you can get a trade in car that is going to auction anyway or get lucky and find a run down used car lot and offer to move cars for them. These were things I've never thought of.

The rest of the people can call BS... and they can also stay poor.
maybe those tires were planted? :D
 

Fox

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Maryland native Glenn Stearns is a self-made billionaire with perhaps more of an emphasis on the 'self-made' than others. Growing up in a low-income household, Glenn was just 14 years old when he became a father. A few years ago, he sold his mortgage company for $2.2 billion.
Maybe he got a phone for his 15th birthday though?

The guy is already a self-made billionaire. I doubt he started with a truck and a TV crew back then.

When you read up on his back story it wasn't easy and he had every reason to quit. Now he is on TV showing you how to do it. For free.

That people can knock this guy is unreal.
 

Real Deal Denver

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I'm pretty comfortable with where I've set my bar -- I was able to retire at 36 based on the choices I made, so if it's okay with you, I'm going to hold off taking career advice from a random guy on the Internet...

But thank you for the insult and advice!

Oh, and by the way, you wouldn't have walked out after 8 or 9 hours for one very simple reason -- the type of person who would walk out after 8 or 9 hours wouldn't have ever gotten to that position in the first place. That's the problem with your hypothetical...
Sorry you take things so personal. As you may remember, I have complimented you many times in the past because I have great respect and admiration for who you are. That is a lot more than just "your accomplishments." It is the total package. I will continue to buy your books, even though you yourself have told me that I can glean the same information from your website for free. Your books are a necessary addition to my arsenal... er, library.

However, I stand by my assertation of a 24-hour meeting being nothing less than a disgusting abuse of power. Nobody should hold that much power over anyone else. They stayed in the meeting, not because it was so earth-shattering and fantastic, but because they did not want to risk the ire of the emperor if they left at a decent time - say ten hours. I know - I've been in that culture more than once, and with big-name companies - like IBM, as one example. I could write a book about that with some fascinating real-world examples - except that it would be a waste of time. But then again... how not to manage. It might work?

I have worked more than 24 hours straight many times (worked, not just sitting in a meeting). I have much more respect (now that I've done it) for people that would put their foot down and not tolerate such abuse/control tactics like that. I did it voluntarily - which I'm sure is the cop-out used too often by ones that do it out of fear of reprisal.

You have every right to be respected and admired based on your accomplishments @JScott. And you should be. But the day you "try" to exert such ridiculous control such as having a 24-hour meeting is the day you lose respect - whether you realize it or not. Great leaders don't need to go to such lengths to show off their bravado. Respect is given. If it is "forced" from someone, it is not worth anything in the first place. It's a lot like love - there is no greater GIFT than genuine love. As an extreme example, I'm sure the concentration camp guards liked to think they were respected, and perhaps even loved. But what they really had - whatever you want to call it - was worthless. They were respected out of fear, and the desire to make things as tolerable as possible, by their underlings. I see a direct parallel there to a 24-hour meeting! Clown tactics.

However, my point was, after all - to promote "The Profit" as a powerful show that is worthy of the time invested to watch. Not only is Marcus a business genius, but there is so much to learn from the "common folk" that run business ventures that need his help.

I am glad this thread will be following this series because I don't have the time nor desire to follow a long drawn out reality series. I'd buy the book in a heartbeat because I wouldn't have to sit through all the rhetoric and drama.

Fair enough?

26668
 

shaitand

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It's common sense really... people won't lend money to people with low credit scores because they don't pay it back. It's not some anti-Marxist conspiracy. You pay back your loans on time, you get good credit. You default on a bunch and no one is gonna want to lend you money. And rightfully so.
Credit for most people has little relationship to actual loans.

My last credit nick actually came from a card company. I paid them off and asked them to close the card, they mailed a final statement but had a paper statement fee in fine print. So I had a zero statement in hand but they automatically reopened the card with a $5 fee, two months later I have a missed payment reported to credit for the $5 and then another the following month but with a late fee. I call and after much battling I finally pay the combined fee to close it out... rinse and repeat they did it again leading to ANOTHER missed payment. This time it took me months to notice with late fees. To get rid of it, not only did I have to pay them everything but I had to find a mailing address for payment off an old statement and mail a check for the $5 separate from paying the bill on the phone. Then because I saved the two print statements with $0 balance. I had bad credit for years because of this and couldn't buy a home and luckily credit checks for employment weren't a thing yet. Later I found out I could dispute it with the credit agencies, one of them left a single missed payment (which they've continued to refuse to take off) but removed the rest and others cleared it off entirely.

The cable companies run similar scams. I had a Comcast business account that I called and closed out. They agreed and since I'd paid for the equipment up front I just moved away. Several months later it is on my credit report for $1600. Technically I should have canceled in writing they claim, some reps claim they have no record of a call and others admit they do. For the equipment, I was supposed to return it anyway and they assert they will charge a fee every month until returned... even if the equipment is no longer possible to find. After a long battle via the BBB they finally stopped charging more. Again, I ended up having to pay these bogus charges to get them off my credit.

There were others and that is just me. Ultimately I got to the point where I just had enough income and paid everyone even if the charges were fraudulent because everything was rigged to give them the leverage.

Your credit rating has little to do with your willingness or capacity to repay debt and while it is understandable lenders want a tool like this to reduce their risk a few thousand lenders understandably wanting lower risk doesn't translate into a right to lower risk at the expense of credit opportunities for 150 million people. Personally with 20% security I think people should be able to borrow directly from the Fed with only their repayment history to the Fed used for credit. As for jobs and leases people did just fine in those industries before they started using credit scores.
 

shaitand

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Okay... So I answered before reading your entire post.

What exactly is your point? You made it through the engineering program and have done well. You are also on the right track with your direction. So, what is the issue? Why can't everyone do it?
Small nitpick. I never went through any engineering program. Sounds like a great way to accumulate debt.
 

ChrisV

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biophase

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He has stated his intention is to get enough for a down payment to flip a house on just this last episode. That is using credit. He rented an apartment. That is using credit AND establishing income but they skipped that part of the conversation and instead just showed the haggle around the security deposit. These are things I've explained, now three times.
Maybe he is using a hard money lender for the house?
Some low income apartment landlords don't check credit. For a $400/mo apartment there could be no credit check. Cash talks (deposit + first month's rent).

Replacing $15k/mo income is going to be a challenge since that income also requires a great deal of my time but I'll get there.

Those are the struggles, the advantage is I have a big cash stream, equity in a home, another home we've just inherited that is paid off but in need of repairs, and a couple hundred k in retirement funds. Growing that wealth to a million in 7 years isn't the challenge.

I need to grow it into enough passive income to replace my salary in 7 years and a million in solid and reliable investments would only optimistically do half that but it would snowball and accelerate. I want to grow to a million in capital in a year not seven and have my goal 2m goal in three and by 10 my first billion.
Your posts puzzle me. It seems like you are intelligent and have a good head on your shoulders. It feels like you want this level business playing field, which is how many people who've never been in business seem to say.

But then you talk about making your first billion in 10 years without having even started a business that can make $180k a year?

Something doesn't add up in your mindset.
 

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