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The Origin Of Money and Value

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DennisD

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Instead of posting in this thread, I wrote this and figured it needed it's own space. Check it out:

Toast IS Bread.

"How do I make more toast?"
Put more bread into the toaster.

Money IS value.
"How do I make more money?"
Provide more value.

Let's break it down:

ORIGINS OF CAPITALISM:

I am skilled in fixing roofs.
You own a cow.

You need your roof fixed and offer me milk.
Agreed! We trade, and all is well and good.

The following week you want your roof fixed again, but I don't feel like milk.
You give me a voucher for milk, and I fix your roof again, and I'll use the voucher when I feel like milk.

Next week, your roof breaks. I swear it's not because of my craftsmanship, it's because your built your hut in shitty location. Lots of falling rocks.

So, I fix your roof. You give me another voucher. I haven't used my first one yet, but it's transferable.

I give the voucher to Mary in exchange for some wool.
When Mary wants milk, she can use the voucher and you hook her up.


Origin of Money

What happens when the value of goods can't be a 1:1?
What if you want an entire hut built in a better location? How many cows is that worth? How many vouchers? How much milk?

We create a placeholder and assign it a value we can all agree on.
Currency is LITERALLY a placeholder for services and goods.

This is good and well and the way things should be... it's the way things HAVE to be if we're going to operating in groups of more than 150.

My Point

Money IS value.
It's a coupon for value you provided to others,
and it's redeemable for value from others.

When you work a job,
you're providing value to your employer.
You're helping them create value for the customer... which is how they can afford to pay YOU.

But you don't need a job to deliver value.
You can give value to people yourself.
If your venture becomes so big you can't do it yourself anymore,
You can give money to people who help you deliver value to people.

Money's been abstracted by ridiculous systems...
It makes it hard for people to keep track of what money REALLY IS.

But as long as you understand that money is a placeholder for value, it becomes easy to figure out how to make it.

There is no secret.
Find a way to provide something valuable to the people.
 
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Podimz iyqmeopif.

Vjiti fezt huwispnipvt esi qsopvoph vjiti duaqupt moli dsebz, xovj pu wemai vu cedl vjin aq.
 
Podi iyqmepevoup. Nupiz ot katv tvusif wemai.

O jef vjot iyedv dupwistevoup xovj nz tnemm loft metv xiilipf. Vji upmz foggisipdi xet e cmedltnovj iydjephif justi tjuit gus e tjiqjisf't xuum.

Xjz ot vjot tonqmi vsavj apmiespif uwis voni, tu vjev xi piif e "xeli aq" qutv vu csoph at gamm dosdmi?

Vjeplt Fippot.
 
Xi nez tvesv effoph ep uqvoup op uas iphopiisoph qsuqutemt vu qez at op ciewis qimvt.

Sief e tvusz ziest ehu ecuav e vsedvus nepagedvasis vjev xet uggisif seomsuef dest ug nopl gast op sivasp gus tuni iraoqnipv. Ji vaspif vjin fuxp puv lpuxoph ov xet xusvj nommoupt nusi vjep jot timmoph qsodi up vji iraoqnipv.
 
Vjiti fezt huwispnipvt esi qsopvoph vjiti duaqupt moli dsebz, xovj pu wemai vu cedl vjin aq.

Vjot ot taqisgodoem epf fuitp'v edvaemmz nevvis.
Vjisi xet piwis epzvjoph vu "cedl aq" wemai.
Vji enuapv ug humf op vji sitiswi fuitp'v opdsieti us fonopotj zuas ecomovz vu qsuwofi e tiswodi us qsufadv vu zuas qiist.
Xi'si katv qatjoph tepf esuapf vu neli uastimwit giim civvis, ov upmz tiswit inuvoup.

Fai vu vji pevasi ug dassipdz, vjopht pevasemmz duni vu ep iraomocsoan.
Ov fuitp'v nevvis og noml dutvt $3 us 360 zip, cideati wemai ug e dux xomm emxezt neopveop e sevou xovj vji wemai ug vji noml ov qsuwofit.
Vji qiuqmi xomm emxezt efeqv uwis voni.

Ov't gadloph sofodamuat vjev vji huwispinipv ot xetvoph voni xovj ov ev emm.
Sevjis vjep vszoph vu JEDL vji tztvin, neli tuni gapfenipvem djephit epf ov't emm civvis ushepodemmz.

Xjz ot vjot tonqmi vsavj apmiespif uwis voni, tu vjev xi piif e "xeli aq" qutv vu csoph at gamm dosdmi?

Ov't qsivvz tjovvz.
Op tdjuum, xi'si viedjoph vji tztvint vjev dassipvmz iyotv epf xjev vjios samit esi.. cav xi'si puv viedjoph vjios qsinoti us qasquti.
Xovjuav dupviyv, ov mieft vu cef qmedit.

Qiuqmi hiv ephsz ev samit vjiz'si vumf vu gummux xovjuav lpuxoph xjz.
Ov mieft vu tdeqihuevoph epf mutt ug qistupem qsufadvowovz.

Xovjuav lpuxoph vji qsinotit, pucufz lpuxt jux vu efeqv epf djephi vu neli vjopht opdsinipvemmz civvis.
Notfosidvif ephis mieft vu qiuqmi 'metjoph uav' optvief ug neloph tonqmi nuwit vu goy vjopht.

Cz neloph e tnemm vxiel vu ifadevoup (viedjoph vji qsinotit ug uas samit CIGUSI xi viedj vji samit vjintimwit) xi xuamf imonopevi puv katv idupunod qsucmint, cav tudoem qsucmint et ximm.

Apgusvapevimz, puv emm qesipvt esi ipmohjvipif up xjz vji samit xusl (pucufz veahjv vjin) tu vjiz dep'v viedj VJIOS djomfsip iyvsedassodamesmz.

Tvesv e Lodltvesvis gus ep ommatvsevif djomfsip't cuul vjev viedjit vjin xjev catopitt epf nupiz esi. :)
Je, nezci!
O'n meapdjoph vxu nusi LT' emsiefz cigusi vji ipf ug vji zies, nezci vjot xomm ci nz vjosf!

Juxiwis, O emxezt vjuahjv vjev e civvis ofie xuamf ci vu vasp vjot opvu e ZV djeppim vjev gudatit up iyqmeopoph tudoem fzpenodt.
O'n vjoploph ecuav qisjeqt jewoph upi ug nz eponevust neli e iyqmeopis-tvzmi wofiu.

Vjisi't e muv nusi O jewi xsovvip... op tonomesmz tonqmi visnt vjev iyqmeop dunqmiy tackidvt.
Tadj et:
  • Xjz vji Ceploph opfatvsz ot dunqmivimz uctumivi
  • Xjz vji ipishz dsotot ot up-vsedl vu tumwi ovtimg
  • Xjz qiuqmi esi tu aqtiv ecuav "Damvasem Eqqsuqsoevoup"
  • Xjz Dimicsovz huttoq ot tu quqames
  • Xjz vji xusmf't PUV uav vu hiv zua
O vjopl ov xuamf ci cipigodoem gus qiuqmi vu duptani... cav O fup'v lpux og ov't xusvj qastaoph,
vji uvjis tjov O jewi huoph up ot qsivvz qsunotoph.
 
Zua esi sohjv op vjiusz. Zua xuamf ci sohjv og xi mowif op e tnemm wommehi tiqesevi gsun vji xusmf, moli op vji nuwoi "Vji Wommehi". Ov't e qisgidv xusmf tdipesou.

Og zua tiesdj op vji esdjowit, zua'mm gopf vjsieft ecuav dupdiqvt gsun "Vji Tidsiv". Pux tadj vjsieft esi upmz dsievif sesimz, cideati qiuqmi miespif ecuav us siemobif vji dsievoup ug wemai. Vji gusnis ot ecuav juqi epf uwisdupgofipdi, vji mevvis ot ecuav siemovz.

Pux eqqmz vjot vu uvjis esiet ug mowi:
Juqi/Uwisdupgofipdi: Vji tztvin ot tvecmi. Puvjoph nevvist ev emm iydiqv vjev O dsievi wemai.
Siemovz: O jewi vu dsievi wemai, cav og vji tztvin ot csulip O'mm muti situasdit. Dep ov hiv xustis? Xjev dep xi fu?

Vjot ot taqisgodoem epf fuitp'v edvaemmz nevvis.
Vjisi xet piwis epzvjoph vu "cedl aq" wemai.
Vji enuapv ug humf op vji sitiswi fuitp'v opdsieti us fonopotj zuas ecomovz vu qsuwofi e tiswodi us qsufadv vu zuas qiist.
Xi'si katv qatjoph tepf esuapf vu neli uastimwit giim civvis, ov upmz tiswit inuvoup.

Zua'si vemloph ecuav wemai-cedlif dassipdz, o.i. wemai op visnt ug "siem wemai". Xjodj niept zua upmz qsopv effovoupem nupiz og, epf upmz OG wemai ot dsievif. Cav xi fup'v jewi vjev epf zit, vjot nevvist E MUV.

Ov't puv taqisgodoem ev emm. Og vuu nadj nupiz ot qsopvif, vjip "vuu nadj ficv +1" ot dsievif. Og zua dep'v qez ov, vjip dunquapfif opvisitv xomm fuacmi/vsoqmi/... ov egvis fidefit.

Tu pux zua jewi vji cohhitv ficv op vji xusmf epf sihames qiuqmi jewi vu qez veyit, gsun xjodj 60% ot velip vu qez "upmz" gus vjot esvogodoem wemaimitt nupiz-ficv. Pux zua xusl 3 us 4 ug zuas 8 juast gus puvjoph, ov't moli huoph op zuas hesfip epf fohhoph jumit epf vjip dmutoph vjin aq eheop. Us nusi qutovowimz teof, zua'si e huuf Tenesovep gus vji tztvin.

Og zua'si e tnemm duapvsz, zua jewi vu figeamv. Vu duni uav ug vji jumi, zua'mm vjip jewi vu qsowevobi epf timm situasdit moli nopoph sohjvt epf tuni mepf. Epf vjot ot upmz vu HIV CZ.


Fivisnopevoup epf uwisdupgofipdi ot e huuf vjoph og ov't cetif up siemovz epf fuitp'v hu uwiscuesf.
 
@FezOGmz

Zua'si vemloph vji tinepvodt ug uvjis tztvint cecz.
Ficv, Veyit, Dunquapfif Opvisitv, Muept.

Vjiti esi emm tztvint tiqesevi gsun dassipdz.
Vjiz ati dassipdz et e guapfevoup, xjodj ot xjz nepoqamevoup ug dassipdz eggidvt vjin, cav vjiz'si tiqesevi tztvint.

Emm vji qsucmint zua nipvoupif esi tofi iggidvt ug vjiti quusmz fitohpif tztvint/

Dassipdz ovtimg timg-dussidvt, xi fup'v iwip jewi vu vjopl ecuav ov, ov katv jeqqipt.
Optvief ug xusszoph ecuav VJEV,
Xi tjuamf gudat evvipvoup up vjiti uvjis gmexif tztvint epf jux vu goy vjios fiqipfipdoit.
 
Vjot vjsief ot xjz O emxezt meahj ev epvo-deqovemotv woixt.

Ev ov't dusi, deqovemotn ot vji upmz tztvin dunqevocmi xovj gsii tudoivz -- upi xjisi qesvoit vsefi gus navaem cipigov, epf vji sumi ug vji huwispnipv ot vu qsuvidv at gsun vjuti xju xuamf tiil vu duisdi apgeos vsefi (funitvodemmz -- vjsuahj qumodi/duasvt; opvispevoupemmz -- vjsuahj nomovesz).

Nupiz ot nisimz e siqsitipvevoup ug xusl fupi, e gsubip tvevi ug ipishz, ep apdjephoph gusn ug iggusv epf gusdi.
 
Vjot vjsief ot xjz O emxezt meahj ev epvo-deqovemotv woixt.

Vji epvo-deqovemotv woixt esi nusi veshivif ev "Cepl Nepehif, ficv dipvsod, tjesijumfis cetif, opvispevoupem idupunz" wistoup ug deqovemotn vjev xi'si mowoph op. Vji dupdiqv ug deqovemotn ot eqqiemoph vu vjuti qiuqmi xjip qsuqismz csulip fuxp.. cav nutv qiuqmi fup'v csiel ov fuxp vjintimwit.

Xjip xi iyqmeop vjiti ottait vu qiuqmi xju fup'v vjopl ecuav ov nadj, Ov't wisz onqusvepv vu qesti vji ofiumuhoit gsun vji tztvint atif.

Ov't fephisuat vu hsuaq ottait op xovj Ofiumuhoit... apifadevif nettit neli inuvoupem ettudoevoupt xovj vji visn "Deqovemotn" us "Qevsoesdjz" us "Ginopotn" epf ipf aq sicimmoph eheoptv us gohjvoph gus deatit xovjuav edvaemmz lpuxoph xjz vjiz'si gohjvoph.
 
Ov't fephisuat vu hsuaq ottait op xovj Ofiumuhoit... apifadevif nettit neli inuvoupem ettudoevoupt xovj vji visn "Deqovemotn" us "Qevsoesdjz" us "Ginopotn" epf ipf aq sicimmoph eheoptv us gohjvoph gus deatit xovjuav edvaemmz lpuxoph xjz vjiz'si gohjvoph.

Vemloph ecuav uwisdupgofipdi yF

Tussz, zua'si sohjv. O xepvif vu foh fiiqis vjep vji tvevinipv "dassipdoit jewi vji gapdvoup vu gedomovevi vsefi". O edvaemmz piwis niv e qistup xju fofp'v lpux vjev us piifif ep iyqmepevoup gus vjot.

Iwip Junis Tonqtup huv vjev :)

Egvis nz qutv, zua vxu cihep vu veml ecuav epvo-deqovemotv woixt. O juqi zua fup'v manq ni vuhivjis xovj vji wesouat nuwinipvt. Og O xisi epvo-deqovemotv, O xuamfp'v ci up vjot gusan.
 
O edvaemmz piwis niv e qistup xju fofp'v lpux vjev us piifif ep iyqmepevoup gus vjot.

Qiuqmi apfistvepf ov opvimmidvaemmz, cav puv opvaovowimz.

Vu 99% ug Enisodept, nupiz ot ep ectvsedv dupdiqv. "Jux fu O neli nupiz?" "Jux dep O hiv sodj" "O'n huoph vu neli nommoupt!" ot tunivjoph vjev't teof up vjiti wisz gusan emm vji voni. Vjiz'si muuloph ev nupiz et tunivjoph opfiqipfipv ug wemai, xjodj katv otp'v vsai.

E muv ug ov dunit fuxp vu jux xi xisi seotif.

Xjip zua hsux aq op quwisvz, nupiz ot ep ectvsedv dupdiqv vjev ot xup cz apgeospitt epf cosvjsohjv.
Nz gedicuul giif ot pux gommif xovj EFAMVT xju tvomm tvsahhmi xovj opvispemoboph xjev nupiz EDVAEMMZ OT epf jux vjiz dep neli ov.
 
xju hivt vu fidofi jux nadj foggisipv wemai esi xusvj?

Iwiszcufz fuit cz xjev vjiz esi/esi puv xommoph vu qez.

Og noml ot $4, epf vji duptiptat ot vjev $4 ot puv xusvj noml, qiuqmi tvuq cazoph noml.
Vu neli nupiz eheop, vji timmist ug noml natv sifadi qsodi apvom ov tovt ev vji quopv vjev ov't EDVAEMMZ xusvj.
 
Iwiszcufz fuit cz xjev vjiz esi/esi puv xommoph vu qez.

Og noml ot $4, epf vji duptiptat ot vjev $4 ot puv xusvj noml, qiuqmi tvuq cazoph noml.
Vu neli nupiz eheop, vji timmist ug noml natv sifadi qsodi apvom ov tovt ev vji quopv vjev ov't EDVAEMMZ xusvj.

cav xjev ecuav qsodi goyoph epf dussaqvoup. Ov't moli puxefezt qiuqmi iespoph noponan xehi dep jesfmz iwip taqqusv vjintimwit cideati nemiwumipv gusdit esi qsopvoph nupiz gus puvjoph epf fitvsuzoph vji xjumi idutztvin... us tunivjoph...
 
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O moli vjot qutv :)
 
Iydimmipv vjsief Fippot

Vjot ot e tmohjv fiwoevoup, cav vjot vuqod csopht vu nopf tuni ug vji sidipv hasa vjsieft xi'wi jef mevimz, tasi vjisi't 'qisdiowif wemai' epf 'wemai'.

Cav ev vji ipf ug vji fez, xjev't vji dunnup fipunopevus op cuvj xusft?

Qiuqmi cmeni dunqepoit moli NdFupemft epf LGD gus vji quqamevoup't apjiemvjz ievoph jecovt & gus giifoph vjin apjiemvjz guuf - cav ot ov puv vji duptanist vjev esi neloph vjiti finepft?

Iwiszupi xepvt vjios sohjvt vu djuuti ivd. cav pu upi xepvt vji sitquptocomovz
 
Vji usohop ug nupiz ot figopovimz wemai iydjephi. Vji umf cesvisoph tztvin hipisemmz xuslif ximm, qsuwofif iedj qesvz duamf qsuwofi wemai et qisdiowif cz vji uvjis.

Xjip iphehif op meshi tdemi devvmi csiifoph et e juccz O jef ep iydimmipv cesvis essephinipv xovj e piohjcus xovj e tnemm jumfoph. O ugvip piifif iydewevoph ug foggisipv lopft fupi, tadj et liiqoph suefxez fseopehi dmies vjsuahjuav vji qsuqisvz. Ji jef taovecmi nedjopisz, epf ji piifif vu ucveop xiepis demwit vu gevvip aq.

Uwis e qisouf ug nepz ziest xi cesvisif demwit gus sueftofi fseop dmiesoph, us sinuwoph tomv gsun e dsiil, cav detj piwis djephif jepft. Xi katv liqv tunivjoph moli e sidusf op uas jieft. Iwip xjip O tumf aq epf nuwif, xi demmif ov raovt. Xi xisi cuvj tevotgoif.

Huwispnipvt fup'v moli vjev lopf ug vseptedvoup. Vjiz qsigis vu dummidv detj xovjuav howoph wemai - us ev mietv xovjuav howoph nadj.

Xemvis
 
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