The Benefits of College (other than making you more likely to get a job)

[Aim_Goal]

Hello Fastlane Forum members. This is going to be my first post and I do so apologize for adding yet another post regarding college on this forum (I can almost hear someone yelling in my ear for why not to search in previous posts), though I briefly searched if there is a post similar to how I am going to put it but couldn't find one.

Though I am on the balance whether to finish college, stop, or pause for a temporary time like many others. I want to know what are the benefits or things learned in college that are or were useful and helped you in your entrepreneurial career.

For us, those in the balance of either going/continuing college or not, we should already know by now we are the ones making the decision(s), not those who answer us on forums since there will be so many opinions due to to each having their own unique "tool box set" of experiences. A better question is how college would benefit me if there are any other ways to get those benefits without the use of college education or degree.

Benefits (for the entrepreneur) I see in going through college would be:

-Gaining connections (close relationships) to possible future successful people who could be beneficial in your entrepreneurial career.

-A degree could be useful when working in contract/freelancing jobs such as coding and programming.

The reason I am asking this question because I really am on the verge of quitting or atleast pausing my college education, to be quite honest I've been in community college for 3 and a half years and about to transfer to university next semester but it seems to me I learned and developed much more through online resources (such as for code, politics, religion), youtube videos, and books for learning and mindset (such as TMF and UnScripted ) in the past 2 or 3 months than I ever did in the last 3 years, heck even family and friends are surprised and impressed how much I changed after I disconnected from everyone for a month. But the worry is the possibility of a benefit that I cannot see from where I am right now but experienced entrepreneurs who either did or did not complete (or even didn't go to college at all) college could know since they've already walked the walk

Please do tell all the benefits you find and also alternatives to where you could possibly gain those benefits elsewhere.

again I apologize for asking a possibly repetitive question but I thought it could be one that could be for many members to benefit from instead of being situation specific.

Best of regards to everyone, and especially to you MJ, you've helped me to solidify and channel all thoughts that I had and just didn't know what to do with them and I'm sure many feel the same.

 

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[WJK]

Hello Fastlane Forum members. This is going to be my first post and I do so apologize for adding yet another post regarding college on this forum (I can almost hear someone yelling in my ear for why not to search in previous posts), though I briefly searched if there is a post similar to how I am going to put it but couldn't find one.

Though I am on the balance whether to finish college, stop, or pause for a temporary time like many others. I want to know what are the benefits or things learned in college that are or were useful and helped you in your entrepreneurial career.

For us, those in the balance of either going/continuing college or not, we should already know by now we are the ones making the decision(s), not those who answer us on forums since there will be so many opinions due to to each having their own unique "tool box set" of experiences. A better question is how college would benefit me if there are any other ways to get those benefits without the use of college education or degree.

Benefits (for the entrepreneur) I see in going through college would be:

-Gaining connections (close relationships) to possible future successful people who could be beneficial in your entrepreneurial career.

-A degree could be useful when working in contract/freelancing jobs such as coding and programming.

The reason I am asking this question because I really am on the verge of quitting or atleast pausing my college education, to be quite honest I've been in community college for 3 and a half years and about to transfer to university next semester but it seems to me I learned and developed much more through online resources (such as for code, politics, religion), youtube videos, and books for learning and mindset (such as TMF and UnScripted ) in the past 2 or 3 months than I ever did in the last 3 years, heck even family and friends are surprised and impressed how much I changed after I disconnected from everyone for a month. But the worry is the possibility of a benefit that I cannot see from where I am right now but experienced entrepreneurs who either did or did not complete (or even didn't go to college at all) college could know since they've already walked the walk

Please do tell all the benefits you find and also alternatives to where you could possibly gain those benefits elsewhere.

again I apologize for asking a possibly repetitive question but I thought it could be one that could be for many members to benefit from instead of being situation specific.

Best of regards to everyone, and especially to you MJ, you've helped me to solidify and channel all thoughts that I had and just didn't know what to do with them and I'm sure many feel the same.

I have 4 college degrees, including my Juris Doctor degree (I went to law school). I haven't used any of those degrees the way that the universities thought I should. BUT, I use the information and skills I learned every day of my life. And I proved that I don't quit!

That being said, I'm not sure I would go get those degrees today. They don't have the same weight as they once had. With the advent of the internet, Kindle and INDY books, I can get any information that need on demand. I am continuing my education everyday.
During the last month, I have learned Word Press. I have built a new web site. This week I'll be emailing out about my new business and real estate blog -- no, I'm not selling anything -- just presenting ideas and information...
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog
I know that building a web site is no big deal for some of you young pups, but it's been a big stretch for an old dog like me. If I wasn't always educating myself, I wouldn't have been able to learn Word Press and keep on trying. Not only that, I'm getting to use my writing skills and add my silly artwork.

 

[Aim_Goal]

I have 4 college degrees, including my Juris Doctor degree (I went to law school). I haven't used any of those degrees the way that the universities thought I should. BUT, I use the information and skills I learned every day of my life. And I proved that I don't quit!

That being said, I'm not sure I would go get those degrees today. They don't have the same weight as they once had. With the advent of the internet, Kindle and INDY books, I can get any information that need on demand. I am continuing my education everyday.
During the last month, I have learned Word Press. I have built a new web site. This week I'll be emailing out about my new business and real estate blog -- no, I'm not selling anything -- just presenting ideas and information...
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog
I know that building a web site is no big deal for some of you young pups, but it's been a big stretch for an old dog like me. If I wasn't always educating myself, I wouldn't have been able to learn Word Press and keep on trying. Not only that, I'm getting to use my writing skills and add my silly artwork.

Hello @WJK, I went and took a glance at your website and "about" page. I must say that I felt a bit inspired. Correct me if I'm wrong but I see that your many experiences you have they seem to have the ability empower your core focuses (Real estate, also correct me if I'm wrong) even if they are not directly connected to them (such as your education in Law). I may have had the thought process of only focusing on a core subcategory in terms of education or education in categories without consideration of usefulness to empower other skills. But, thinking more about it I really should be thinking of also building/educating myself in other areas that could also empower my core set of skills/abilities.

 

[Nannan]

One thing I liked about college was the extra time I got. Compared to a 9 - 5 job, you have a lot of free time in between classes and outside. My schedule was typically 2 classes a day, each 1 - 2 hours. Sometimes we got Friday off.

If you have the extra time, use it to better yourself or perhaps even start a business with friends. And by all means fail at trying. I mean it in the absolute positive way. I have failed tons of time in grad school trying accomplish crazy things and used the "I'm still in school" as a get out of jail card.

Example: I tried working with a few friends on their startup and we failed. If this was my job and I got laid off, I need to go find another way to support myself or worse, for the people I live with. No need, I was in school, I learned my lessons, moved on and continued with my studies.

If I had a time machine for college, I would have used all the extra time to learn about starting a business, getting real life experience, perhaps through joining a club that interacted a lot with the real world.

Hope I was able to answer your question

 

[lewj24]

Tons of benefits:

Most college courses are relatively easy (google the answers).

If you are on campus you get all you can eat buffet for a meal plan.

Bunch of fun groups you can join and athletic activities.

Most colleges have a gym on campus.

Tons of partying/hanging out with other people your age. A lot of fun and goofing off.

You then get a degree that proves your "smarts." Very helpful if you want a career as a teacher/lawyer/doctor etc.

Other than that I've got nothing. You can learn more by yourself. You can literally google anything. And if you're super serious you can actually buy the actual college textbooks that the classes are run from. Pay a hundred bucks or less for an older edition text book and you will learn too much. And no need to go into a ton of debt and waste years of life.

Maybe you can say the professors are a great resource but that hasn't been my experience. Whenever I asked them a real life question they would blow it off and say, "That's covered in a different class." Maybe I had bad professors, maybe not.

 

[Jonathan1]

I'm in my final semester of my Bachelors of Psychology.
As I live, during conversations and while I think about things that happen, little bits of what I learned come back to mind and help add insight to the situation.
I've learned how to write.
I've learned critical thinking and skepticism.
I've learned how to research.
I've gotten opportunities to practice public speaking.

That said, I've read a lot of books in my private time unrelated to the curriculum which have all provided the same benefits I listed above, and I've learned far more from my own reading that the Psych curriculum.

 

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[Aim_Goal]

One thing I liked about college was the extra time I got. Compared to a 9 - 5 job, you have a lot of free time in between classes and outside. My schedule was typically 2 classes a day, each 1 - 2 hours. Sometimes we got Friday off.

If you have the extra time, use it to better yourself or perhaps even start a business with friends. And by all means fail at trying. I mean it in the absolute positive way. I have failed tons of time in grad school trying accomplish crazy things and used the "I'm still in school" as a get out of jail card.

Example: I tried working with a few friends on their startup and we failed. If this was my job and I got laid off, I need to go find another way to support myself or worse, for the people I live with. No need, I was in school, I learned my lessons, moved on and continued with my studies.

If I had a time machine for college, I would have used all the extra time to learn about starting a business, getting real life experience, perhaps through joining a club that interacted a lot with the real world.

Hope I was able to answer your question

I honestly find it hard to do that. I've tried to create 2 businesses online so far(a year and a year +half ago). They of course failed early on because both times the person I am with would stop caring while I try do the heavy lifting. They always went on unfinished because I also found it hard to manage the time. I was always the one to try start something but unfortunately I could not find someone who has similar goals as mine or serious at trying to start-up something I want. although to be quite honest they were ideas that I kind kind-of look down on after reading TFM. I'm also a person who has a real short focus span so it takes me much longer to do anything (like studying) but recently I've been trying to improve that with some techniques and practice.

I still think I should do college. But after I've reached a point where I could sustain myself and pay for college without taking loans. I already have loans and things I need to pay when I'm still young and dug myself in a whole because of bad habits and also shifting my focus on multiple things and ending up not doing anything at all.

 

[lewj24]

I also forgot to add if you go to college everyone thinks you are god.

"Oh my son got his bachelors degree at ISU!"

"I graduated with an MBA summa cum laude."

"My grandson is becoming a doctor!"

"My buddy is becoming a pharmacist."

"Did you hear so and so got engaged to a future lawyer?"

"I have my Phd. Please, call me Dr. Joe Blow."

"My daughter got a full ride to play softball."

Status is a big deal.

 

[Nannan]

I honestly find it hard to do that. I've tried to create 2 businesses online so far(a year and a year +half ago). They of course failed early on because both times the person I am with would stop caring while I try do the heavy lifting. They always went on unfinished because I also found it hard to manage the time. I was always the one to try start something but unfortunately I could not find someone who has similar goals as mine or serious at trying to start-up something I want. although to be quite honest they were ideas that I kind kind-of look down on after reading TFM. I'm also a person who has a real short focus span so it takes me much longer to do anything (like studying) but recently I've been trying to improve that with some techniques and practice.

I still think I should do college. But after I've reached a point where I could sustain myself and pay for college without taking loans. I already have loans and things I need to pay when I'm still young and dug myself in a whole because of bad habits and also shifting my focus on multiple things and ending up not doing anything at all.

I definitely understand that feeling of you do all the heavy lifting and the other person does not care. I've been through that. Heck I went through with that last year from May till January and he owns majority shares lol.

But the point is you learn from your failures, and even accomplishments, now while you're in this nice bubble called school, even if you have to take a loan. You pointed out all those problems while you are still in college. Imagine identifying these problems when you're out of college and need to support yourself.

I'm pretty sure you have a lot of positive takeaways and rude awakenings from the 2 online businesses. Trust me, they pay off in the long run. I went through almost 1 year of startup hell while in college and later in grad school and ended up leaving because literally everything sucked. The takeaways, I ended up standing up for myself, programming efficiently, debugging code efficiently and gaining people skill to name a few.

Bottom line is the benefits are still the extra time you have in college as opposed to being in the workforce and the "I'm in college card". Use the extra time to better yourself, you'll be surprised how much you will grow in such a small amount of time.

 

[Aim_Goal]

Tons of benefits:

Most college courses are relatively easy (google the answers).

If you are on campus you get all you can eat buffet for a meal plan.

Bunch of fun groups you can join and athletic activities.

Most colleges have a gym on campus.

Tons of partying/hanging out with other people your age. A lot of fun and goofing off.

You then get a degree that proves your "smarts." Very helpful if you want a career as a teacher/lawyer/doctor etc.

Other than that I've got nothing. You can learn more by yourself. You can literally google anything. And if you're super serious you can actually buy the actual college textbooks that the classes are run from. Pay a hundred bucks or less for an older edition text book and you will learn too much. And no need to go into a ton of debt and waste years of life.

Maybe you can say the professors are a great resource but that hasn't been my experience. Whenever I asked them a real life question they would blow it off and say, "That's covered in a different class." Maybe I had bad professors, maybe not.

I'm in my final semester of my Bachelors of Psychology.
As I live, during conversations and while I think about things that happen, little bits of what I learned come back to mind and help add insight to the situation.
I've learned how to write.
I've learned critical thinking and skepticism.
I've learned how to research.
I've gotten opportunities to practice public speaking.

That said, I've read a lot of books in my private time unrelated to the curriculum which have all provided the same benefits I listed above, and I've learned far more from my own reading that the Psych curriculum.

There are 2 Professors from all the professors I studied with that inspired me and helped me develop myself. One helped me intellectually in critical thinking and the other in research and entrepreneurship. I wouldn't take what I learned from with granted but it was because of them as people with their personal experiences that learned from them by interacting with them alot during office hours but They are only 2 of at least a dozen others whom I barely feel I learned from them which is very inefficient. If possible I would love to meet people who I could learn from them outside college.

In terms of prestige, I think it is an opportunity opener but I don't think I should rush it right now for the degree until I reach a point (hopefully within 3 years) where I could sustain myself and college without the need of loans and much interference from whatever is helping sustain myself (business).

I thing that bothers me these days is whenever I mention pausing or stopping college everybody jumps on you and how education is important. OFCOURSE education but many people seem to connect college and education as if they were the same thing.

 

[Kennypaul]

I think one of the benefits of college is the free time that you get after classes and lectures to work and educate yourself.
I've found out that sometimes,being around people(even people that might not share your goals) is a big inspiration to even work harder on yourself and your goals.

 

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[Jonathan1]

There are 2 Professors from all the professors I studied with that inspired me and helped me develop myself. One helped me intellectually in critical thinking and the other in research and entrepreneurship. I wouldn't take what I learned from with granted but it was because of them as people with their personal experiences that learned from them by interacting with them alot during office hours but They are only 2 of at least a dozen others whom I barely feel I learned from them which is very inefficient. If possible I would love to meet people who I could learn from them outside college.

In terms of prestige, I think it is an opportunity opener but I don't think I should rush it right now for the degree until I reach a point (hopefully within 3 years) where I could sustain myself and college without the need of loans and much interference from whatever is helping sustain myself (business).

I thing that bothers me these days is whenever I mention pausing or stopping college everybody jumps on you and how education is important. OFCOURSE education but many people seem to connect college and education as if they were the same thing.

On your last point, agreed. I use my vocabulary a little differently tho. I distinguish education from learning. Education is what you get in school, credentials etc. Learning is the knowledge and skills you gain and add to your personal value, which may be as a result of formal education or otherwise (private self directed learning). The latter is far more important in my opinion, since the more you specialize in education, the more you learn about less.

 

[Olimac21]

1. Network
2. Possibility of going abroad as a exchange student
3. First jobs to work as research assistant or with academia.

 

[Joaquim]

I do not think you should stay only for the reason to gain knowledge.

There are a lot of benefits college has besides the knowledge, as some are already mentioned above:

- In college you 'learn' to do things you don't like. This is part of life, there will always be things you don't like to do but has to be done.

- Social skills & relationships: No better place to meet all kinds of people and to learn social skills. Read about it and apply it in college. When finished you'll be way ahead!


- You have a lot of time to learn new things by yourself, read and be curious outside college. you'll benefit more from that knowledge in the long term. When you actually begin your business you won't have that much time.

- I'm not afraid of reading books with 500+ pages. These books are standard in college and that way I got used to it.

- A lot of economic benefits, cheap prices on all kinds of stuff also beneficial regulations etc.. (Speaking for my own country)

And I forgot the most important one:

Sex at your fingertips.


If it's only a year or less to go do not even hesitate, if it's longer I understand your hesitation. But do not think you'll go back if you put college on hold or that it will be better.

 

[Fastlane Liam]

You learn social skills, uh

Apart from that you're paying for the piece of paper to prove your obedience

 

[lewj24]

You guys keep saying you get a lot of free time.

Isn't this just an illusion crafted by the system? You only have a certain amount of time in your one life. College doesn't increase life expectancy, it just delays you from entering the workforce. Which I would argue takes time away from you.

Now you have less time and experience in the workforce (because college takes years) to pay off more debt (because of student loans.)

College gives you free time now but what's the long-term cost? Do you get more time later?

 

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[Nannan]

You guys keep saying you get a lot of free time.

Isn't this just an illusion crafted by the system? You only have a certain amount of time in your one life. College doesn't increase life expectancy, it just delays you from entering the workforce. Which I would argue takes time away from you.

Now you have less time and experience in the workforce (because college takes years) to pay off more debt (because of student loans.)

College gives you free time now but what's the long-term cost? Do you get more time later?

You make a good point Lew when factoring these other variables in. This does go back to the "Go to College or Not Go To College Debate". My views may be more biased because I graduated with a computer science degree, did a lot of programming work as an intern and hustled for a better life in college and grad school.

In college on average, I had to spend around 16 hours in class for the week. Studying for tests and doing homework probably took around 4 - 5 hours of the week. That's about 20 - 21 hours spent in a week dedicated to school.
A 9 - 5 job (Slowlane) will cost 40 hours a week dedicated to work with additional 1 - 2 hour overtime during good weeks. I will be paying off debts, but the pay will give me more flexibility and if I'm able to start a business that resolves a lot of people's needs, I can use their money to repay the debt quickly

21 hours in college per week < 42 hours at work

-----------------------------------------------------------

For graduating high school and entering the workforce, I think there's going to be a lot of baggage, obstacles and pressure that I believe the average high school student nowadays will not be able to handle.

If I left high school and attempted to join the workforce. I will need to move out because I will be labelled as a dead beat. While having little real world experience, I need to find a place to live, and the minimum amount of money to survive (rent, food, utility). Since most jobs require college level degrees (once again my bias as a STEM graduate) I will probably need to look for jobs that can sustain myself and to fund my chances of becoming Unscripted . So at this route, I will be attempting to join the Slowlane but speculate that I will need to live paycheck by paycheck because it covers the bare minimum.

These jobs too are once again 9 -5 or maybe even longer. According to MJ's book Millionaire Fastlane , they can be quite life draining or even more than the typical white collared jobs, the Limo driver gig sounded horrendous. Essentially, balancing this slowlane job with gaining experience.

Effectively, you are gambling 4 years of additional life/ learning experiences in exchange for a shot at freedom. I would say it will be well worth it if you are a hard worker, with tons of real life experience gained in high school. However once again, if you look at most of the high school graduates nowadays, I really think that 99% of them do not have the discipline and that they should go into a field that provides value to society and start from there.

 

[WinTheDay]

You get to meet really cool people from all walks of life.

Immense opportunities offered to you just because you are a college student.
- A few of my early on business deals came because I told them I was a college student and they liked the fact that I was in school and working on that business. One guy was even a graduate from the same University if it wasn't for that connect he would have never responded to my email, we ended up not being a good fit for business together but you get the idea.

For some reason society cuts you a lot of slack while you are in college, you have to experience it to understand what I mean. Just in day to day interactions bring up you're a student or wear you college gear.

Study abroad..I'm finally taking advantage of this next month. Incredibly easy way to travel to outside the country and experience life while earning credits.

Classes are easy and free time is evident, even people I know who has tons of credit hours still have plenty of free time. Hopefully your University has a top notch rec center, great workouts and swimming pool, rock climb, basketball..etc.

Fun and partying, man..do I have stories haha...

College has a lot of benefits, sad part is the biggest benefits available most people don't even use.

Learn a language, join a club, start a club...if done right college can be a huge benefit.
But in my opinion for 4 years anything over 15k debt not worth it. F*ck that. Avoid student loans in general but yeah I know all can't. Personally if you have a business that is producing atleast 3.5k/month consistently. I would just dropout.

This is all under the assumption that you go to a relatively decent sized school.
I can't comment on very small places like community college, no experience.

 

[lewj24]

21 hours in college per week < 42 hours at work

This is getting into the go to college or don't go to college debate but I will try to keep my response on thread topic.

You say 21 hours in college is better than 42 at work. How so?

What are the benefits of the 21 hours in college? (Read through this thread) and what are the negatives? (costs tons of money and time)

What are the benefits of 42 hours at work? (Gaining experience and getting paid) and what are the negatives? (potentially soul sucking and takes time)

You can go to college and get a bunch of free time and credentials while paying thousands of dollars that cannot be bankrupted away.

Or

You can work a normal job for 4 years, gain experience and money.

In the college scenario you get short term benefits, some credentials, and $50k in debt.

In the working scenario lets say you work a $10 per hour job full time. You have earned $80,000 over 4 years and gained real world experience.

And you say you would have been kicked out at 18 and have to fend for yourself if you didn't go to college. Wouldn't you rather be kicked out at 18 with no debt and more time than being kicked out at 22 with $50k in debt and 6 months until you have to start making payments?

 

[SteveO]

I also forgot to add if you go to college everyone thinks you are god.

"Oh my son got his bachelors degree at ISU!"

"I graduated with an MBA summa cum laude."

"My grandson is becoming a doctor!"

"My buddy is becoming a pharmacist."

"Did you hear so and so got engaged to a future lawyer?"

"I have my Phd. Please, call me Dr. Joe Blow."

"My daughter got a full ride to play softball."

Status is a big deal.

Hahaha... My parents got to say "My son almost made it through 10th grade!" My dad said that he was very worried about me in early adulthood.

 

[mike24601]

My advice to anyone seeking formal college education is to do it Cheap/Free, and Fast (3 years or less). I earned my college money via the military route, and went from a D/F student in high school to graduating at the top of my college class with zero student loan debt in less than three years. That was a seriously liberating and life affirming experience. I don't think I gained more IQ points from having gone to school but I certainly learned to organize and elucidate my thoughts. I wouldn't trade the experiences I had for $1 million. That said, some people really DO trade experiences/feels for upwards of 200, 300, or 400k in tuition and many lost years vacillating from one major to the next...and that's simply unconscionable unless you will end up with an M.D. after your name from a top 10 school.

 

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[GoGetter24]

I will say that I think a lot of people justify college due to the hazing / Stockholm syndrome / sunk-cost-denial effect. Most (65.9%) of people go through college nowadays, so you have a much larger percentage of the population who are prepped to defend it. Otherwise they'd have to swallow the fact they've massively overpaid for something: nope - they'd rather defend it than swallow that.

And worse: they can't escape it through bankruptcy, effectively re-instituting the debtors prison. I've heard of people with north of $100k debt, one guy even said his was $450k (dentistry), and it was bearing solid interest rates. Everyone had convinced him it was the right thing to do. And people will even defend that kind of price. It's a monstrous situation. And I think a lot more people need to stand up, stop defending it, and have the courage to say "I got suckered, I was hurt, and I'm still hurting".

But the problem with the binary college vs no college debate is that it misses the point entirely. The question is not what the value of some arbitrary institution of education / networking / credentialing is. The real questions are is "what is the best form of education" (and how much, how long, etc); "what is the best form of networking"; "what is the best system for credentialing"; and most importantly "what are the fair prices and expected returns for these things?".

Rather than instead starting with the position "defend university", and then start saying "connections blah blah", without comparison to other options, or saying absurd things like free time as a benefit, deliberately ignoring the fact that simply not going to university gives you that.

----------

So, if I could submit my concept of how the "education system" (which is really a combination of things including non-education) should be changed.

Separation of the components: education, life advice, credentials, socializing. These are not related things, there are massive conflicts of interest and waste that arise when they are combined.

Education for leisure is for the rich (back in the days of "A gentleman need not know Latin, but he should at least have forgotten it."). Not a way to get rich. Not a way to avoid financial suffering. Therefore it must be tied to return on investment.

This implies that it must be specific, limited, fragmented, and priced to that purpose. A student should never leave the education center thinking "I'm never going to use most of what I've had to learn". They should have learned only what they're going to use. And if they discover they need something else -- they go back for that module. Which they finish at their pace. Doesn't take a genius to see that's a better system. This implies a bunch of other things. The fixed K-12 system must go. The fixed 3 year law course or 4 year engineering degree must go, and be replaced with fragmentation. Maybe you need 4 years worth, maybe you only need 1 years worth of a specific sub field. It should depend on you and your specific goals.

Credentials should not be anything to do with the education companies. There should be no exams set by an education company, and any education company that sets its own exams should be laughed at like a restaurant that wants to set its own health inspection. Credential companies would sit between the real world, and the education industry. The real world (businesses) would specify what they need tests to screen for, and credentials companies would make tests for those. Companies would then simply look at those tests, and hire on the numbers, possibly even without interviews. Students would therefore find a education company that can educate them to score well on those tests. And everything is massively, efficiently aligned.

This separation would immediately create innovation. The exam period would drop from quarterly (or greater) to monthly or less. Leaving course study to the last minute would disappear -- pointless in a system where you can take the exam whenever you're ready. Want to be a qualified engineer in 1 year instead of 4? Up to you. It would also remove artificial year levels, which have nothing to do with real life (no one works in a company where everyone is the same age as them). And a whole bunch of other things would change, including course-level competition instead of university-level competition.

Socialization is massively removed from education. Schools claim to be socialization centered, but are useless at it. They're good at books & lectures, that's it. Which is why they do no testing of social ability, give no lessons on social skills, do nothing to check socialization development is proceeding smoothly (e.g. bullying and bad influences are reactively fixed rather than proactively avoided), and are at constant loggerheads with certain groups of their customers who actually just want to socialize (giving out detentions, them interfering with the class, etc).

Therefore this needs to be separated out. People living on a campus for 3 years so they can share STDs with each other is nothing to do with education. Partying can be done elsewhere for much cheaper. All of the clubs and societies of a university can be stripped out and be done separately. Networking can be done and paid for separately, competitively, and with more filtered and higher value offerings.

Life advice would also be separate. Going to university to "find yourself" is proven nonsense. Schools and universities do zero screening on "who you are". They do nothing to test and tease out what your innate strengths, passions, aptitudes, are and align it with what society needs (and therefore will have high payoff for you).

There would be separate advisories who would specialize in this. They would do personal testing, and they would give out advice on possible mixtures of the above parts, and sub-components (e.g. specific schools, credentialers), that the person could take. They would constantly be analyzing career markets and doing future modeling and risk analysis in that area.

Gentlemen, this entire thing could be revolutionized.

So why isn't it like this? Why are kids just lumped into monolithic regimented systems, that don't fit their best interests?

One thing this is not, is a political issue. It has nothing to do with politicians, anymore than what I'm going to eat for dinner has anything to do with politicians. Politicians interest in the education system only goes as far as their desire for power -- that's why they become politicians.

This comes down to the parents. It is because of them, and them alone, that the system is as broken as it is. They all have the ability to vote with their wallets and their time. And they do. And this dysfunctional system is the result. If they actually cared about the development of their kids, they wouldn't all default to putting them in a school as their sole responsibility. No, that's not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to play their role in their kids reaching their full potentials. And abdicating it with the minimum effort, of putting them in a school, and occasionally looking at a report card and having a parent-teacher interview, is the root cause of why their kids go on to the university & debtors prison.

 

[Maxboost]

I got scammed with a useless business degree. My advice would be to kids nowadays is, "IF you know what your job title will be after University, GO TO SCHOOL". That should eliminate 95% of the useless college degrees out there. So if you want to be a lawyer, teacher, doctor, etc.. you have to go to school.

Before you decide what you want to do until you reach 65 years of age, ask companies to job shadow for a 1 WEEK straight. So you want to be an accountant? Follow that person around for 1 week straight and see if data entry, useless meetings, late hours and admin work is what you want to do for the rest of your life.

 

[WJK]

Hello @WJK, I went and took a glance at your website and "about" page. I must say that I felt a bit inspired. Correct me if I'm wrong but I see that your many experiences you have they seem to have the ability empower your core focuses (Real estate, also correct me if I'm wrong) even if they are not directly connected to them (such as your education in Law). I may have had the thought process of only focusing on a core subcategory in terms of education or education in categories without consideration of usefulness to empower other skills. But, thinking more about it I really should be thinking of also building/educating myself in other areas that could also empower my core set of skills/abilities.

Hi Aim_Goal. I once had a wise man tell me, "It your education. You can do anything with it that you want." He was right. I've been able to craft my life in ways that my educators never dreamed.

The other part of it is that I have learned to say no. People tell me that I HAVE to do things that I'm good at, and in areas where I have my education. That's not true. I can do whatever I want, when I want, and the way I want. As long as I don't hurt someone else, and I take care of myself and mine -- my education and my success jointly have given me my freedom.

 

[mike24601]

I got scammed with a useless business degree. My advice would be to kids nowadays is, "IF you know what your job title will be after University, GO TO SCHOOL". That should eliminate 95% of the useless college degrees out there. So if you want to be a lawyer, teacher, doctor, etc.. you have to go to school.

Before you decide what you want to do until you reach 65 years of age, ask companies to job shadow for a 1 WEEK straight. So you want to be an accountant? Follow that person around for 1 week straight and see if data entry, useless meetings, late hours and admin work is what you want to do for the rest of your life.

I'd add one caveat to this. Law school is probably the biggest scam in the post-grad education arena. JD's are a dime a dozen out there now and the workforce is in a massive, soul crushing glut. If you go to law school today you are more likely than not heading down a path towards despair, unless you are hopelessly infatuated with being a lawyer and are well aware that your life will probably be filled with mind numbing tasks that are nothing like what is depicted on Law & Order. Due diligence is paramount!

 

[Aim_Goal]

It's really interesting to see everyone's view on college. Basically one could see best case scenario would be go college and either focus on it and finish it asap or go on it a bit slow while trying to make the most of your time in college but stay away from debt.

I will say that I think a lot of people justify college due to the hazing / Stockholm syndrome / sunk-cost-denial effect. Most (65.9%) of people go through college nowadays, so you have a much larger percentage of the population who are prepped to defend it. Otherwise they'd have to swallow the fact they've massively overpaid for something: nope - they'd rather defend it than swallow that.

And worse: they can't escape it through bankruptcy, effectively re-instituting the debtors prison. I've heard of people with north of $100k debt, one guy even said his was $450k (dentistry), and it was bearing solid interest rates. Everyone had convinced him it was the right thing to do. And people will even defend that kind of price. It's a monstrous situation. And I think a lot more people need to stand up, stop defending it, and have the courage to say "I got suckered, I was hurt, and I'm still hurting".

But the problem with the binary college vs no college debate is that it misses the point entirely. The question is not what the value of some arbitrary institution of education / networking / credentialing is. The real questions are is "what is the best form of education" (and how much, how long, etc); "what is the best form of networking"; "what is the best system for credentialing"; and most importantly "what are the fair prices and expected returns for these things?".

Rather than instead starting with the position "defend university", and then start saying "connections blah blah", without comparison to other options, or saying absurd things like free time as a benefit, deliberately ignoring the fact that simply not going to university gives you that.

----------

So, if I could submit my concept of how the "education system" (which is really a combination of things including non-education) should be changed.

Separation of the components: education, life advice, credentials, socializing. These are not related things, there are massive conflicts of interest and waste that arise when they are combined.

Education for leisure is for the rich (back in the days of "A gentleman need not know Latin, but he should at least have forgotten it."). Not a way to get rich. Not a way to avoid financial suffering. Therefore it must be tied to return on investment.

This implies that it must be specific, limited, fragmented, and priced to that purpose. A student should never leave the education center thinking "I'm never going to use most of what I've had to learn". They should have learned only what they're going to use. And if they discover they need something else -- they go back for that module. Which they finish at their pace. Doesn't take a genius to see that's a better system. This implies a bunch of other things. The fixed K-12 system must go. The fixed 3 year law course or 4 year engineering degree must go, and be replaced with fragmentation. Maybe you need 4 years worth, maybe you only need 1 years worth of a specific sub field. It should depend on you and your specific goals.

Credentials should not be anything to do with the education companies. There should be no exams set by an education company, and any education company that sets its own exams should be laughed at like a restaurant that wants to set its own health inspection. Credential companies would sit between the real world, and the education industry. The real world (businesses) would specify what they need tests to screen for, and credentials companies would make tests for those. Companies would then simply look at those tests, and hire on the numbers, possibly even without interviews. Students would therefore find a education company that can educate them to score well on those tests. And everything is massively, efficiently aligned.

This separation would immediately create innovation. The exam period would drop from quarterly (or greater) to monthly or less. Leaving course study to the last minute would disappear -- pointless in a system where you can take the exam whenever you're ready. Want to be a qualified engineer in 1 year instead of 4? Up to you. It would also remove artificial year levels, which have nothing to do with real life (no one works in a company where everyone is the same age as them). And a whole bunch of other things would change, including course-level competition instead of university-level competition.

Socialization is massively removed from education. Schools claim to be socialization centered, but are useless at it. They're good at books & lectures, that's it. Which is why they do no testing of social ability, give no lessons on social skills, do nothing to check socialization development is proceeding smoothly (e.g. bullying and bad influences are reactively fixed rather than proactively avoided), and are at constant loggerheads with certain groups of their customers who actually just want to socialize (giving out detentions, them interfering with the class, etc).

Therefore this needs to be separated out. People living on a campus for 3 years so they can share STDs with each other is nothing to do with education. Partying can be done elsewhere for much cheaper. All of the clubs and societies of a university can be stripped out and be done separately. Networking can be done and paid for separately, competitively, and with more filtered and higher value offerings.

Life advice would also be separate. Going to university to "find yourself" is proven nonsense. Schools and universities do zero screening on "who you are". They do nothing to test and tease out what your innate strengths, passions, aptitudes, are and align it with what society needs (and therefore will have high payoff for you).

There would be separate advisories who would specialize in this. They would do personal testing, and they would give out advice on possible mixtures of the above parts, and sub-components (e.g. specific schools, credentialers), that the person could take. They would constantly be analyzing career markets and doing future modeling and risk analysis in that area.

Gentlemen, this entire thing could be revolutionized.

So why isn't it like this? Why are kids just lumped into monolithic regimented systems, that don't fit their best interests?

One thing this is not, is a political issue. It has nothing to do with politicians, anymore than what I'm going to eat for dinner has anything to do with politicians. Politicians interest in the education system only goes as far as their desire for power -- that's why they become politicians.

This comes down to the parents. It is because of them, and them alone, that the system is as broken as it is. They all have the ability to vote with their wallets and their time. And they do. And this dysfunctional system is the result. If they actually cared about the development of their kids, they wouldn't all default to putting them in a school as their sole responsibility. No, that's not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to play their role in their kids reaching their full potentials. And abdicating it with the minimum effort, of putting them in a school, and occasionally looking at a report card and having a parent-teacher interview, is the root cause of why their kids go on to the university & debtors prison.

@GoGetter24
I like the way you detailed how the education system with those 4 components. which I believe are also important components an entrepreneur should have. Problem with society is whenever you speak against the current education a defensive mode is switched on and you get attacked with the accusation that you believe that education is not important. It is but people confuse education with knowledge. Knowledge, in my opinion, is an aspect of education with another being wisdom; and wisdom is the ability to use obtained knowledge in beneficial ways. Colleges focus more on the aspect of knowledge and almost do NOT try nurture wisdom (Unless you count polytechnic universities which apply their engineering skills in college). The way colleges are right now it seems to me it would be best to approach college after obtaining some wisdom to be able to make decisions. BUT if highschool students are being sent to college who are hyped to "Live the party life with no parental shackles on" with very light limits on how much loans they could ask for, then that's just a dead give away colleges don't give a damn about the wisdom aspect...

 

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[WJK]

I'd add one caveat to this. Law school is probably the biggest scam in the post-grad education arena. JD's are a dime a dozen out there now and the workforce is in a massive, soul crushing glut. If you go to law school today you are more likely than not heading down a path towards despair, unless you are hopelessly infatuated with being a lawyer and are well aware that your life will probably be filled with mind numbing tasks that are nothing like what is depicted on Law & Order. Due diligence is paramount!

You're right. JDs are a dime a dozen these days.

I did go to law school and I am a Juris Doctor. I never practiced. I was an expert witness and I did litigation support in real estate matters. Now, I do my own legal work for my residential real estate business. I use my education everyday of my life. I don't regret getting the education.

BUT, I didn't want to be an attorney. I had nightmares about being locked up in an office, located in a high rise tower, waist deep in legal files, and never seeing the sun again. I figured I would develop huge "bug eyes", like a nocturnal animal. Most real estate legal work is all about the contracts -- and not about the actual property. For me the fun was the field work.

One never knows where they'll end up. I have 4 college degrees and I'm still educating myself. During the last month I learned Word Press and built a new web site, so I can blog about business and real estate. And I'm doing my silly art again to make the blog posts more interesting. I couldn't do all of this IF I didn't have a good education and experience background. Have the tools in your kit never hurts!

 

[Richard Greene]

Hello Fastlane Forum members. This is going to be my first post and I do so apologize for adding yet another post regarding college on this forum (I can almost hear someone yelling in my ear for why not to search in previous posts), though I briefly searched if there is a post similar to how I am going to put it but couldn't find one.

Though I am on the balance whether to finish college, stop, or pause for a temporary time like many others. I want to know what are the benefits or things learned in college that are or were useful and helped you in your entrepreneurial career.

For us, those in the balance of either going/continuing college or not, we should already know by now we are the ones making the decision(s), not those who answer us on forums since there will be so many opinions due to to each having their own unique "tool box set" of experiences. A better question is how college would benefit me if there are any other ways to get those benefits without the use of college education or degree.

Benefits (for the entrepreneur) I see in going through college would be:

-Gaining connections (close relationships) to possible future successful people who could be beneficial in your entrepreneurial career.

-A degree could be useful when working in contract/freelancing jobs such as coding and programming.

The reason I am asking this question because I really am on the verge of quitting or atleast pausing my college education, to be quite honest I've been in community college for 3 and a half years and about to transfer to university next semester but it seems to me I learned and developed much more through online resources (such as for code, politics, religion), youtube videos, and books for learning and mindset (such as TMF and UnScripted ) in the past 2 or 3 months than I ever did in the last 3 years, heck even family and friends are surprised and impressed how much I changed after I disconnected from everyone for a month. But the worry is the possibility of a benefit that I cannot see from where I am right now but experienced entrepreneurs who either did or did not complete (or even didn't go to college at all) college could know since they've already walked the walk

Please do tell all the benefits you find and also alternatives to where you could possibly gain those benefits elsewhere.

again I apologize for asking a possibly repetitive question but I thought it could be one that could be for many members to benefit from instead of being situation specific.

Best of regards to everyone, and especially to you MJ, you've helped me to solidify and channel all thoughts that I had and just didn't know what to do with them and I'm sure many feel the same.

Before College I liked computers. No... I loved computers. I would spend hours with Python and Blender. Just making silly games and doing architectural design. Long story short I went to college to be a programmer. Really can't stand computers now but they are part of the modern age and aren't going anywhere.
I killed my love by wanting it to be a career and earned 5 figures in debt. After college couldn't find a job anyway, one that paid that is. Got offered a couple of internships and turned them down. Figured out everyone wants to be a programmer and even if I did find a job they don't pay the $200,000 a year right off the bat like I was told in college. I fell for college, thought it would be my ticket out of poverty. Really wish I could go back in time.
I have learned more from self education since getting out of college and it isn't stressful teaching myself new skills. No-one to breathe down my neck and no-one to subtract points from my grade for a little screw up. Just me being accountable for me.
You grow more educating yourself anyhow.
College may work for some but not all.
I would rather spend $10 on a book that I can take my time with and keep instead of $5,000 for a semester of someone rushing me to get this done!
Just my experience.

 

[WJK]

Before College I liked computers. No... I loved computers. I would spend hours with Python and Blender. Just making silly games and doing architectural design. Long story short I went to college to be a programmer. Really can't stand computers now but they are part of the modern age and aren't going anywhere.
I killed my love by wanting it to be a career and earned 5 figures in debt. After college couldn't find a job anyway, one that paid that is. Got offered a couple of internships and turned them down. Figured out everyone wants to be a programmer and even if I did find a job they don't pay the $200,000 a year right off the bat like I was told in college. I fell for college, thought it would be my ticket out of poverty. Really wish I could go back in time.
I have learned more from self education since getting out of college and it isn't stressful teaching myself new skills. No-one to breathe down my neck and no-one to subtract points from my grade for a little screw up. Just me being accountable for me.
You grow more educating yourself anyhow.
College may work for some but not all.
I would rather spend $10 on a book that I can take my time with and keep instead of $5,000 for a semester of someone rushing me to get this done!
Just my experience.

You sound unhappy and jaded. Your ticket out of poverty is working smart and applying yourself. -- just as it has always been.
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog

 

[Richard Greene]

You sound unhappy and jaded. Your ticket out of poverty is working smart and applying yourself. -- just as it has always been.
Welcome to Wenda's Business Blog - WJK Business Buzz Blog

I got out of poverty already. Not rich but not poor. That is just what I thought college was when I first started.
You are correct, I should have a better attitude. I'm sorry you had to deal with my negativity. Plus the OP asked for benefits and I fire back with being negative. I apologize to the OP as well. I re-read what I said and did not realize how negative and un-helpful I was being. That's not right. Thank you for correcting me and I will be more aware of my words in the future.