Random Chat, Thoughts, Posts, and/or Rants Thread

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Okay....



Classic liberalism isn't elitist. The declaration of Independence, and the Constitution were written by classical liberalism adherents.


Take your own advice...

@Kak this is why I watch my words. Because even with me trying to speak civilly, this keyboard warrior wants to come at me all tough.


Oh really?

Now, check out the list of poorest states. 8 are solidly red. NM is blue and WV is purple. I didn't share an opinion. That's a verifiable fact.

The list of least populous are more mixed, but the smaller blue states, population wise, are older and so have a better economic base.

Kak understood the distinction I was making. He pointed to the agrarian economy in the red states. He addressed my concern with his idea intelligently.

You on the other hand jump to this obnoxious conclusion, and then proceed to give a biased and flawed view of history. But you completely misunderstood me.

I wasn't commenting about how the process of wealth happens. I wasn't saying that red states become poor because they're red. Kak put out an idea, and I said how would we do it, today. And I looked at the list of states to see the facts above, and felt that current red states would be at a disadvantage to the blue states on the world economic stage.



This is not historically accurate.

First off, historically speaking, liberals were the ones advocating for liberty. That's how they came to be known as liberals. And going back to the French revolution, liberals has always been "the left".

Most countries, if that's what you meant by state, didn't begin with liberty in mind.

If you mean our states, Georgia, Missouri, Louisiana, these states and more did not begin with liberty in mind. Do I need to list the rest or can you pick up a history book?

It wasn't that long ago that California was a solidly red state. And it was blue before that. That really throws a monkey wrench into your point. Blue red blue.

And the south used to be blue, then went red.

So your assessment of how it all works is flawed. Especially if you expand to world history. Most countries aren't divided red or blue, right or left.

So how about you get off your high horse? Maybe that's hard for the chosen one to do.




Because it's not often someone says that I have the worst opinion in the history of the forum, and then shares my exact same opinion.

Bravo buddy. Bravo. Excellent reading comprehension.

This country is so polarized, that everybody thinks that the slightest disagreement means that we all greatly disagree and the enemy must be belittle and vanquished.

There's not any room left for nuance.

Too many Americans act like if we're not in complete lock step, you must be completely against me. Too many Americans act like everybody is either red or blue. Way to be brainwashed.

We can't even have a discussion without somebody making some kind of inflammatory, off the wall remark.

This forum is full of takes worse than mine. Oops, I mean ours.



The irony...

I don’t have to agree with you and you don’t ave to agree with me. But you were on your “high horse” first with your elitist view towards people you don’t understand and clearly have no intention of understanding.

Your first comment was very arrogant.
It sums up the impression New Yorkers and Californians seem to have of the rest of us as “fly over” states. Oh, or as “deplorable” for looking after our own interests.

You cannot have the top of maslow’s hierarchy of needs without the bottom. People get filthy rich in unsexy, dirty industries like farming, oil & gas, manufacturing, auto repair, you name it. We can’t all be fancy bankers or white collar professionals.

Also, have you seen Nancy Pelosi’s district lately? Have you seen Houston or Austin? The poorest people live in dark blue cities. People in the country and the suburbs mostly own their property and have jobs (or businesses).

Everywhere there is private ownership there seems to be prosperity. Left wing politics can’t seem to get away from homelessness, lawlessness, etc.

America has gotten to where it is today because of capitalism.

Socialism is only possible because of capitalism.

If you disagree, why are you here? Go run for political office. I hear it’s pretty fastlane.

This map is a good example of why “red states” are not the horrible backwards poor states that left wing elites say they are:

What is the Real Value of $100 in Your State?

New purchasing power map compares the real value of $100 in each state. Learn more about real income vs. nominal income, as well as about price parity.

taxfoundation.org

The map begs the question, is your state really that prosperous? Or just highly inflated? We can run up debt endlessly and pat oursevels on the back for it. We can build really pretty schools and parks and government buildings and issue bonds that will never be paid back. We can sign laws for massive pensions that will fail and be bailed out by the feds. And all these things give us a warm fuzzy inside when we are supporting them. But do those things make our blue states “prosperous”? Or more like Greece or Venezuela?

 

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[Kak]

Go run for political office. I hear it’s pretty fastlane.

Damn right!!! HAHA

It pays... WELL! Ask Hunter Biden!

 

[socaldude]

The real problem is that we have strayed so far away from the Constitution and the 10th amendment

Exactly. It’s very simple. This country was founded on freedom and limited government.

It’s very simple. Who owns and controls the resources? Naturally a government becomes bigger when it makes all the rules and calls all the shots. The next step to become more powerful? Oh yeah just control all the money and resources. How you do that? Oh that’s right create a ruse where you somehow have the magic potion to all our difficulties. But they can’t be direct they gotta create a ruse or a false narrative. Oh yeah that me and you are dumb and are a threat to ourselves.

Entrepreneurship by definition is Pro freedom. Why? Because it puts the responsibility of allocating resources into the individuals hands. Me and you get to maximize efficiency and utility not a government that always lies and doesn’t produce anything.

 

[Kak]

Classic liberalism isn't elitist. The declaration of Independence, and the Constitution were written by classical liberalism adherents.

Classical liberalism is really just libertarianism. The founding fathers hated government, so they put chains on it... The chains that the supreme court has allowed the federal government to slowly remove and has provided it with the "legitimacy" theater necessary for public acceptance. And now they stand upon "precedence" as if precedence is the new constitution.

He did not mean liberalism in the classical sense... He meant classic for a liberal to say.

I am curious, what are you? I know you have always held yourself out as a republican that hated Trump... I too have a distaste for him... But for CLEARLY different reasons than you.

They paint him as far right... The reality... He is left of center, collectivist, big government, Rockefeller republican. Policy wise, he is a John Kasich, Susan Collins or a Joe Mansion with more charisma. Not my flavor of politician.

He has NEVER articulated a true conservative position. He has also flipped things that used to be conservative positions... Like free trade. Now evidently I am a "communist" for favoring the USA being competitive rather than protectionist.

I believe in capitalism. I don't believe in "capitalism... but (insert socialist patches)." I don't believe we need to "save" capitalism with with socialism lite like the left wing elites on wall street preach. It works. It recognizes the simple and undeniable fact that people, though imperfect, will act to improve their own condition. Every time a capitalistic exchange takes place, the condition of BOTH parties improves. It is the only system that uses human nature as the foundation for its existence.

Capitalism is the very reason our lives are SO incredibly much better today than 500 years ago... Because capitalists created a better world. The government is not responsible for this. You can't legislate advances in medical, technological, and energy industries. An innovator, a leader, an entrepreneur, is responsible for these. And don't say "the internet was made by the military," because I am sure that is what you will say. The internet, as we know it today, is the creation of capitalism.

Socialism on the other hand IGNORES human nature and centralizes power in the hands of the same imperfect people that capitalism understands. Once that power is there, it is wielded in greedy and unspeakable ways to improve the condition of its wielders, however this time, by force, which is NOT mutually agreed to.

EVERY other entity has to earn its profits through mutual exchange while the government profits by threat of kidnaping and caging of the disobedient.

What this comes down to is two belief systems… One that says people need to be forced to do things and the other that they are better off on their own. I believe that forcing people to do things that they don't want to do is immoral.

 

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[Thoelt53]

What this comes down to is two belief systems… One that says people need to be forced to do things and the other that they are better off on their own. I believe that forcing people to do things that they don't want to do is immoral.

“Left vs Right” is intentionally misleading. In actuality there is only Collectivism vs Individualism. Capitalism is the only system that nurtures individualism.

Anything else, be it communism or fascism, is collectivism. The notion that communists and fascists hate each other may be true. I wouldn’t know, I am neither. But what I can tell you is that they are one in the same.

Don't be fooled people.

 

[tpuffer]

Classical liberalism is really just libertarianism. The founding fathers hated government, so they put chains on it... The chains that the supreme court has allowed the federal government to slowly remove and has provided it with the "legitimacy" theater necessary for public acceptance. And now they stand upon "precedence" as if precedence is the new constitution.

Agree with this!

We have slowly over the history of our country had more government intervention foisted on us. These things are the reason our founding fathers decided to tell the king he's an idiot and we are going to do things our way.

Capitalism is the very reason our lives are SO incredibly much better today than 500 years ago... Because capitalists created a better world. The government is not responsible for this. You can't legislate advances in medical, technological, and energy industries. An innovator, a leader, an entrepreneur, is responsible for these. And don't say "the internet was made by the military," because I am sure that is what you will say. The internet, as we know it today, is the creation of capitalism.

Socialism on the other hand IGNORES human nature and centralizes power in the hands of the same imperfect people that capitalism understands. Once that power is there it is yielded in greedy and unspeakable ways to improve the condition of its yielders, however this time, by force, which is NOT mutually agreed to.

EVERY other entity has to earn its profits through mutual exchange while the government profits by threat of kidnaping and caging of the disobedient.

What this comes down to is two belief systems… One that says people need to be forced to do things and the other that they are better off on their own. I believe that forcing people to do things that they don't want to do is immoral.

We unfortunately no longer have a government By The People, For The People. It's By The Politicians, For The Sheeple. People need to quit looking to government for leadership. They are not leaders. We need to look to ourselves and be leaders. We need to better ourselves so that we can help to better those around us. People need to take ownership of their situation and WORK HARD to make it better.

It is sad that we get more and more socialistic...Last time I checked this doesn't work out well for people. We need to be real careful what we give up in return for "free".

Related to all of this. I am of the belief that the federal reserve is a good portion of the woes in our country. They are our third rendition of a central bank. Andrew Jackson worked very hard to have the second one shut down and then in a cruel bit of irony he ends up on a piece of fiat currency. He continues to roll in his grave. Capitalism isn't the issue. The issue is that the almighty dollar has lost 97%+ of its purchasing power since it was introduced by the federal reserve in 1913. Not only are we fleeced via taxes, but we are via inflation.

 

[Thoelt53]

I haven’t kept up with the current topic of this thread, so I may be repetitive.

I am not a raving Trump fan. Far from it. However, to elect Joe Biden to the Oval Office is the nail in the coffin for this country.

If you want to live in a nation locked down by power drunken maniacs, Joe Biden is your guy. He is a geriatric puppet with dementia. Kamala Harris is a full on communist. Look no further than her “cute” November 1, 2020 cartoon on the matter. She doesn’t believe in equal opportunity. She believes in equal equitable outcome, aka communism.

I suggest everyone go and read the Great Reset by Klaus Schwab. He is the sociopathic president of the World Economic Forum. Make of it what you will, but it would appear the leftist politicians in this country, along with many European governments, including the UK with Boris Johnson, are fully onboard to undermine their democratically elected governments chosen by the will of the people. They advocate one party autocratic rule in order to eliminate carbon emissions, “cure” poverty and ensure equal equitable outcomes by crushing the economy via lockdown and destroying each countries’ bill of rights. COVID is their opportunity to strike, and they do not intend to waste it.

Trump, hate him or love him, is the only person standing between that future, and a future similar to the past decade or two. Never mind the existing problems of government in this country, and there are many. What is coming is far, far worse.

Why do you think there has been a 5 year media onslaught against Trump? George Bush and Obama were far worse presidents, for too many reasons to list here, yet the media never gave them the same treatment as they have Trump.

There is a coordinated effort to destroy Trump and push him aside to further their agenda. It’s not a conspiracy theory. You needn’t look further then across the pond.

I am not afraid of Trump. I am afraid of what comes after him.

 

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[Thoelt53]

Damn right!!! HAHA

It pays... WELL! Ask Hunter Biden!

Shhhh... the media said that’s unverifiable.

 

[Thoelt53]

Today’s problems in America are due to the education, aka indoctrination system. So many college graduates have been indoctrinated to believe bogus progressive ideologies that totally ignore historical trends. Compile that with lifer politicians of the same ilk and you find yourself in a swamp, for lack of a better term. ‘Bureaucracy’ just isn’t quite vivid enough.

I’m afraid that there might not be a way to fix it.

We have strayed so far from what the Founding Fathers had envisioned for this country. Today they are viewed as evil, wealthy, rotten white men.

Never mind that their sacrifices and contributions to humanity paved the way for comforts and blessings of the world as we know it.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Honestly I feel bad for going off so hard here, but this is the rant thread ? Lol.

It’s a hard balance trying to keep friends but also feeling so passionate about what’s happening to our country, my family’s business (and all the bigger companies that operate primarily in red states - companies that support the most basic resources we need in the economy), and the jobs of all the workers who work(ed) for us as we lay off 100+ people.

And even more blue collar workers will be broke and jobless if Biden wins and they start this “green new deal” nonsense, or try to do cap and trade or a carbon tax.

Basically killing the worker. So liberal of them!

 

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[WestCoastMax]

Today’s problems in America are due to the education, aka indoctrination system. So many college graduates have been indoctrinated to believe bogus progressive ideologies that totally ignore historical trends. Compile that with lifer politicians of the same ilk and you find yourself in a swamp, for lack of a better term. ‘Bureaucracy’ just isn’t quite vivid enough.

I’m afraid that there might not be a way to fix it.

We have strayed so far from what the Founding Fathers had envisioned for this country. Today they are viewed as evil, wealthy, rotten white men.

Never mind that their sacrifices and contributions to humanity paved the way for comforts and blessings of the world as we know it.

We're becoming what James Madison feared most, a divided republic with mob rule at the center of it. The internet and education systems have corrupted our country. The internet has allowed extremist factions to disperse into their own little bubbles enabling them to carry on with their ignorance and supporting bad politicians. Our educational system like you said has enabled our young ones to be indoctrinated with false ideas. Instead of having civil discussions with each other, schools have decided to censor disputes.

Congress has become a dysfunctional branch filled with ultra-progressive leftists and regressive. Both parties seem to only do what benefits them. The same could be said with the SCOTUS. It's crazy to see that one man has been able to predict our demise 300 years back.

 

[Thoelt53]

We're becoming what James Madison feared most, a divided republic with mob rule at the center of it. The internet and education systems have corrupted our country. The internet has allowed extremist factions to disperse into their own little bubbles enabling them to carry on with their ignorance and supporting bad politicians. Our educational system like you said has enabled our young ones to be indoctrinated with false ideas. Instead of having civil discussions with each other, schools have decided to censor disputes.

Congress has become a dysfunctional branch filled with ultra-progressive leftists and regressive. Both parties seem to only do what benefits them. The same could be said with the SCOTUS. It's crazy to see that one man has been able to predict our demise 300 years back.

It wasn’t so much a prediction as it was projection of historical trend. Our Founders were well educated historians.

Everything is cyclical, which is why the Great Reset worries me. Similar corruptions of power have occurred throughout history. The difference today is that technology offers a new and far greater means of control.

 

[WestCoastMax]

It wasn’t so much a prediction as it was projection of historical trend. Our Founders were well educated historians.

Everything is cyclical, which is why the Great Reset worries me. Similar corruptions of power have occurred throughout history. The difference today is that technology offers a new and far greater means of control.

Would you mind explaining what the great reset is?

 

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[biophase]

About $1300/month maintenance fees (HOA) and $1800/month taxes.

I do have another one that I purchased for $1.2m. Being built in about 4-5 years. So far I've put down about $180k in deposits. Another $60k to go for a total deposit of $240k. This one is right beside one of the major hospitals in Toronto and has a 2 year rental guarantee (~$6000/month for 2 years). So I think it's a much better investment.

The one for $2.8m in my opinion is more of a lifestyle building, than it is an investment. I doubt families will purchase a unit when they can get a detached for the same value in or around the same area. But I honestly think it was one heck of a good deal for $10k/month... albeit risky.

To me that’s just crazy. How is your money held? Or is it used to fund the construction.

I hope both of these go well for you. But this is exactly how people doing well go broke. If both of these implode, you’d be down $1m. There’s no other way that you would lose $1m of your savings.

So tough to know what the market will be like in 4/5 years. Come closing time if the market is down you are almost forced to close t save your money. I’ve done this before and not closed after 2 years because the market was down, but I only put up $2500.

 

[Cyberthal]

Uncensored Republican info on the 2020 election is hard to find, so here's a couple of links:

The Donald

The Donald is a never-ending rally dedicated to the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump.

thedonald.win

Election Integrity (Stop the Steal) · Group · Gab.com

Election Integrity (Stop the Steal) on Gab. Information, news & action alerts to #StopTheSteal and general election integrity. This is not a group for campaigning. We only support peaceful rallies & protests. URL redirection (tinyurl, bitly, etc) posts will be eliminated. Be on the lookout for...

gab.com

I don't want to discuss it, so I didn't make a separate thread.

 

[BizyDad]

I don’t have to agree with you and you don’t ave to agree with me.

Sorry chief, I didn't read your diatribe because you lost me at this first sentence.

I do agree with you. I said that already. I agreed with you wholeheartedly. Are you even reading what I write?

I do think the root of the problem is a turning away from the Constitution.

That's why I argued with @Kak who was calling for a further turning away from one constitution, and one nation, and recommending that we break it all up.

That's the conversation you jumped into. Do you really agree with that?

Respectfully I don't really want to discuss your straw man arguments about what I believe or don't believe because you got me wrong from the jump.

I am curious, what are you? I know you have always held yourself out as a republican that hated Trump... I too have a distaste for him... But for CLEARLY different reasons than you.

This is long, but you asked...

I don't like political labels. I suppose I'm a moderate, Reagan/McCain Republican. I really don't identify with Republicanism in its current form, hence I don't like the label. This isn't the party of Lincoln any longer...

I believe the institution of government can and should play a positive and necessary role in a society, if that government is properly constructed and constrained.

Give me capitalist foundations. Pro free trade. Pro small business. Providing government support to spur innovation. I am pro strong military but want to be restrained in its use. Putting down insurrections is an acceptable use. Pro immigration. I am pro property rights, pro equal rights, pro state's rights, pro Constitution, and pro Declaration.

Lincoln understood the importance of a connected America. He encouraged infrastructure improvements, railroads and canals. I'm a big fan of the highway system.

Where I differ with the party is I don't believe trickle down works. I think there is a right level of taxation, and the current frenzy of tax the rich isn't it. But tax cuts aren't a panacea either if they lead to more and more debt. And I wish we'd balance the budget, something neither McCain nor Reagan truly committed to.

But both men displayed respect for their political opponents. I miss that. Both men understood the value of compromise. This country's founding documents were forged in the fires of compromise.

Every advancement we've made has been a compromise. Every advancement we've made has left some people feeling like we didn't go far enough and others feeling like we went too far.

This recent winner take all mentality in politics today disgusts me. It is the height of vanity. It's hubris run amok.

I like my America with a dash of common sense regulations, to avoid things like lakes burning. Why do we poison our drinking water? Are we not called to be stewards? I think unfettered capitalism is dangerous in a country that doesn't adhere to anything but the greed is good mantra.

Sure, the two people in the transaction win in your version of capitalism, so who needs lemon laws? Does your version account for how garbage ends up in the Pacific Ocean? Or who cleans it up? IF it can be cleaned. There are actuarial tables to decide whether a car company should do a recall on airbags, or just let people die and pay the damages. I guess all those people who bought Volkswagens really won in the end.

There are cracks in an unfettered capitalistic system. I believe government should stand against monopolistic powers.

With the lessening influence of religion, I believe we are seeing man/society giving themselves over to their baser selves more brazenly and frequently than ever in this country's history. I could be wrong on that. But I believe government should be a check against that if religion or societal pressure is unable to.

I wish we had a society that showed more "love your neighbor as yourself" qualities, and then I'd argue we don't need government to be a bulwark, but that's not who we are or where we are as a country. America is proudly a society of individuals first. Individualism above all.

I think a few these "socialist" ideas have improved this country. We don't have shanty towns like the '30's, and if we're not careful we'll have them again.

I also believe in some government subsidies to prop up those farmers I supposedly don't understand or care about. Food supply is too important to be left to the whims of a pure market, especially on a world stage were other governments are backing private enterprise. I don't want to go back to eating a 19th century diet. But I think there is a fine line between government subsidies and government control.

By the way, we didn't get to the moon because of one entrepreneur. And before you bring up today's space cowboys, they're all building on the foundation that government funded scientists built. The leader responsible was Kennedy. Satelites, GPS, cell phones, touchscreens, graphene, e-commerce, Ancestry.com, Google, Tesla, Space-X, Apple, all suckled at the teet of government dollars and or government research. NIH or DoD grants often precede vc capital.

Would we have had Da Vinci without the Medici? I sometimes wonder how many DaVinci's were born and never funded.

You can talk about the history and how we got here, and you're right, but you're ignoring the fact is modern-day capitalists have realized that basic scientific research is a poor investment of their dollar. The days of Bell Labs or the Xerox group funding science are done. What capitalistic company would fund archeology research? How would they answer to their shareholders?

Today's large companies like Google or Microsoft focus their scientific pursuits on things that can generate ROI relatively quickly, like self-driving cars or bringing cheaper internet to remote places. Or anything Elon Musk touches.

Modern day advancements in the field of physics like the study of black holes or similar pursuits are funded by government. Nobel prize winners are generally not funded by private enterprise.

Remind me which company proved the existence of gravitational waves?

Which entrepreneur fixed the hole in the ozone layer?

The Coronavirus vaccine will not be created by a private enterprise with private money. Government dollars back these types of projects, or at least insure against certain losses.

So again, I think government has a vital role to play in society.

You want to lessen/get rid of taxation? Do what Israel or Finland does and let government retain equity in firms that benefit from government funded research. That too socialist for everybody? I think there's ways that this could work and still be capitalistic. I think that's less crazy than breaking up the United States into 30-50 countries.

Otherwise, in my version of the best America, taxation is a necessity. Render unto Caeser. But there should be greater transparency. The people should know where their money is going. The good it is producing. Government could use some better PR.

And we are way overspending. This cannot continue. Printing money, debasing the currency, the last 20 years are especially ridiculous.

I agreed with Reagan's amnesty. He was right that Hispanic immigrants are just Republicans who don't know it yet. These people just want to come here and work. And often the most menial jobs. But their children carry on that work ethic. This invigorates the country, it's a shame when someone complains"they're taking our jobs". Maybe you shoulda done it better. Or maybe you should've taken the initiative to get a better one, because if you're losing to someone that doesn't even speak the language then you have bigger problems to worry about.

Build a wall mentality hurts America.

I agree with McCain's vote to preserve Obamacare. It was Romneycare first, and it was conceived in a conservative think tank. It is a forced market, and I'm not saying I like every bit of how it was rolled out or implemented. But I like that it was an audacious step to solve a problem long festering in our society. I like that it was tested on the state level first. The reason Republicans can't come up with anything better is because this was the best they could come up with in the first place.

But I don't want Medicare for all. To me that goes too far.

I think there are times when a person needs to break from their party. I think no party has all the answers, so we should strive to encourage intelligent discourse and debate from all sides to improve our nation and the world.

No one here has a monopoly on truth.

Just as Hamiltons and Jeffersons and Adams of yesteryear debated differing views and values, so too should we.

And while it has never been as civil a process as I'd aspire to, nevertheless it is my dream that above all America always strive to form a more perfect Union.

So what am I? The son of an immigrant who still believes in American dreams and writes long forum posts.

Who has despised Trump since he listened to him growing up on the Howard Stern show and read his stupid book and learned about how he screwed over banks and was proud of himself for not honoring his contracts or agreements. He's Don the Con. He thinks morals are for suckers. Everybody acts like he is the bastion of the right, but he's a New York liberal who was proudly pro choice until he discovered he could con conservative Christians super easily and decided to run for office. Throw in a shout out to the Confederacy here or there, and he's conned the Southerners too. He really ran with the birther thing, didn't he? Trump is the epitome of New York elitism. He hates hicks. I just know this because I listened to his interviews. If he's the hope for holding back socialism, we're screwed.

Honestly I feel bad for going off so hard here, but this is the rant thread ? Lol.

I agree, it is the rant thread. I appreciate the sentiment.

And I'm sorry to hear about your business's struggles. Laying off that many people must've been a gut punch for everyone.

 

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[sparechange]

Was googling dentistry stuff....

How many times a day do you think they brushed their teeth!?

I'm due for a cleaning...

 

[Bearcorp]

Thank you gents for sharing some insights into the USA in a dignified manner, (and for future conversations along the same lines) I appreciate being able to read online some well thought out opinions and some depth and background to them, regardless of who agrees with who or what’s right or wrong

 

[Timmy C]

It's sad seeing what's happening in America right now.

My best wishes to everyone over there.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I am not American, but imo, Trump is America's, and the free world's only hope. Biden, McCain, Romney = they are the same. Crooked politicians, who lie to your face, without any shame, and put up a wall of fakery around them, while secretly promoting their own interests and sustaining the same corrupt system. In my opinion, even if Trump loses, he could always refuse to leave.

So again, I think government has a vital role to play in society.

But the government also makes some people rich - check Don's father. It's very possible that government is the easiest way to get rich. I would speculate, that across the world, most people who get rich do so through some form of government help (not paying taxes, getting access to state level deals, anti-competitive practices from the government etc.). Think of all the congress people and Senators - all of them almost are millionaires. Bernie Sanders included! And that's all due to corruption. So I think smaller government is always ideal, which is the opposite of what the Democrats will do once in power.

With the lessening influence of religion, I believe we are seeing man/society giving themselves over to their baser selves more brazenly and frequently than ever in this country's history.

Correct, but belief in God is being replaced with belief in man - which is the motto of Communists and the Democrat party (and, for that matter, Randbots on the other side - now need to get ready for the flurry of anger). That man is supreme, and can choose to alter nature according to his will. If you don't want to work to have money, then the problem is not with you, it's with the system which is set up so that you have to work to make money. And so on.

And the issue at a deeper level that most people won't even understand is that the supremacy of man is at the core of technology. Martin Heidegger goes over this in his very insightful essay The Question Concerning Technology.

The underlying thesis is that technological development is NOT morally neutral... and actually serves to coverup the shift from reliance on God (faith), to reliance on man. Because technology makes you think in a certain way... namely, everything around is seen as a means to an end. Open up Rand's book, the Fountainhead. The second page, where Howard Roark is at a lake enjoying a swim:

"He looked at the granite. To be cut, he thought, and made into walls. He looked at a tree. To be split and made into rafters. He looked at a streak of rust on a stone and thought of iron ore under the ground. To be melted and to emerge as girders against the sky"

Here we have technological thinking unconsciously showing itself from the pen of Rand. The granite, the tree, the stone, the iron ore - they're not seen for what they are in themselves, they are ONLY seen with regards to how they can be useful to the will of man. So Roark cannot enjoy nature as it is - he must change it, shape it according to his will. This pair of eyes which sees the world as a means to man's end, and man's satisfaction as the supreme value, is the corrosive cancer that shows itself on both the right and the left.

So paradoxically, Ayn Rand and Marx are not different, except superficially. They both worship at the altar of man, and fall prey to technological thinking, which is the root cause of both of their ideologies. So man is giving in to his "baser self" because God - something above and beyond man - has been removed. Now man is supreme, hence technology becomes supreme, and nature a mere means to man's end.

We've had threads on this forum which talk about immortality, as the solution to death. People think they can become immortal - they want to use science, and technology, to achieve this aim. Doesn't matter what impact it will have on the rest of nature, THEY want it, so THEY will have it. So the whole of nature is being subordinated to man's will. The problem, of course, is that man's will is inherently corrupt - call it original sin as Christians do, or maybe original ignorance as Buddhists would - doesn't matter how you call it.

And technologically driven entrepreneurs (a la Steve Jobs, Elon Musk) are no different. They also worship at the altar of man.

 

[tpuffer]

With the lessening influence of religion, I believe we are seeing man/society giving themselves over to their baser selves more brazenly and frequently than ever in this country's history. I could be wrong on that. But I believe government should be a check against that if religion or societal pressure is unable to.

Maybe I read and listen to too much Jordan Peterson but if people looked to themselves for responsibility and leadership then they would find more meaning to do good. There are great lessons in religion even if someone doesn't practice religion. At religions core I think is to be a good person. I agree that people are losing sight of this and getting very tribal.

Does the current form of government put a check on the tribalism though? I think it could possibly, but that isn't the way it looks right now unfortunately.

And we are way overspending. This cannot continue. Printing money, debasing the currency, the last 20 years are especially ridiculous.

That's the benefit of being the reserve currency of the world. We can do what we want....for a time. At some point a transition always happens to a new reserve currency. Seems to me we are getting pretty close.

The Federal Reserve -

Not Federal - They aren't a government entity. It is owned by shares of member banks. Theses are unelected people.

No reserve - They can write a blank check when they want and can hit enter on the keyboard to conjure up more digits on the screen.

I'm clearly not a fan of the fed, but we have to know how the game is played by those who control it and then go out and prosper ourselves, and do good, and be moral, and push our society forward as Capitalist Entrepreneurs.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Uncensored Republican info on the 2020 election is hard to find, so here's a couple of links:

The Donald

The Donald is a never-ending rally dedicated to the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump.

thedonald.win

Election Integrity (Stop the Steal) · Group · Gab.com

Election Integrity (Stop the Steal) on Gab. Information, news & action alerts to #StopTheSteal and general election integrity. This is not a group for campaigning. We only support peaceful rallies & protests. URL redirection (tinyurl, bitly, etc) posts will be eliminated. Be on the lookout for...

gab.com

I don't want to discuss it, so I didn't make a separate thread.

I don’t necessarily believe what Trump is saying, but I do believe in the right for him to speak. Where the hell have we ended up as a nation? It’s become purely about who has power, not principles.

One of my lifelong friends called me retarded last night for saying that we should be able to talk about what’s happening without all the censorship. What happened to freedom?

 

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[Kid]

called me retarded last night for saying that we should be able to talk about what’s happening without all the censorship. What happened to freedom?

That was freedom - HIS - a paradox, if you want to describe it this way.

 

[BizyDad]

That was freedom - HIS - a paradox, if you want to describe it this way.

I have thought about this a lot over the years. How some people decry feeling censored but they'd prefer others keep their mouth's shut. It is a conundrum, a paradox, a double standard. It's becoming cliche, but freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

I've come to the conclusion that the only good form of censorship is self censorship, and far too few people practice it.

A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back. Or put another way, better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

And with that in mind, I'm going to take my own advice and bow out of the rant thread for a while. Thanks for the chat folks.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

That was freedom - HIS - a paradox, if you want to describe it this way.

I didn’t say he can’t say it! Sheesh lol

The freedom comment was about big tech censoring anyone without a Social Justice Warrior approved opinion.

 

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[Kid]

And with that in mind, I'm going to take my own advice and bow out of the rant thread for a while. Thanks for the chat folks.

The chat was interesting - with your posts and contributions from other posters.
Anyway, thanks for taking time to write.

 

[socaldude]

The Federal Reserve -

Not Federal - They aren't a government entity. It is owned by shares of member banks. Theses are unelected people.

No reserve - They can write a blank check when they want and can hit enter on the keyboard to conjure up more digits on the screen.

Say it isn’t so!

You mean to tell me the man behind the curtain typing in fake digital money into an excel spreadsheet was true this whole time!

Time to backspace delete all those treasuries on the balance sheet. LOL

 

[Thoelt53]

The Federal Reserve -

Not Federal - They aren't a government entity. It is owned by shares of member banks. Theses are unelected people.

No reserve - They can write a blank check when they want and can hit enter on the keyboard to conjure up more digits on the screen.

Ah, yes. The Fed can be compared to two things:

- it is about as ‘federal’ as FedEx (Federal Express).
-Like the Holy Roman Empire, which was neither holy nor Roman, the Fed is neither federal nor a reserve.

 

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[socaldude]

- it is about as ‘federal’ as FedEx (Federal Express)

I remember reading an interview in a magazine a long time ago, don’t remember which one. But Fred Smith said he wanted to copy the Fed’s business model as a government sponsored and sanctioned monopoly but owned privately.

The strategy was to get a government contract for life to handle all the logistics for the federal government with those little planes he had.

The crazy thing about the Fed is that it has never been audited. Whats to keep someone from getting a few million “accidentally” deposited into their account. Over all this time period I think it’s naive to think it hasn’t happened. Crazy. Funny that blockchain is easy to audit. But our monetary system is not compatible with blockchain.

 

[sparechange]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4


Elections on mind...