Random Chat, Thoughts, Posts, and/or Rants Thread

[WillHurtDontCare]

I’m not some super fan of JP or anything, but I think you are being a bit hyperbolic. I have enjoyed and agreed with the majority of the stuff he has put out there.

If more people lived by these rules, we would have a lot less useless idiots in the world. I would hardly call him poison.

So my question is why? Why would you consider him poisonous and why would you suggest people avoid him? I’m not fighting you, just genuinely intrigued.

I guess my only issue with him is the whole guru thing. He is telling people how to be fulfilled and happy, but I think I’m probably more fulfilled and happy than he is, so… I generally don’t chase down his content.

You’ll need to elaborate.

I know he’s got drug problems. And he’s a polarizing figure. But I never thought of his work as “poison”.

What examples can you post that made you think that way? (I’m no JP fanboy, to be clear… you just made a bold claim).

I took both of your comments as sincere questions, which is fair considering I made a bold claim.

My point is that he wrote a book on how to live, yet that same book couldn't keep him from falling into drug addiction and suicidal thoughts. His has feel good ideas that crumble when shit gets real.

I read and really enjoyed 12 Rules in the beginning of 2018, but I started reading serious books later (Nietzche, the Classics, others) and realized this book was feel good garbage.

My other criticism of him is political. Since this is an entrepreneur I'll try to keep the summary tame inasmuch as political topics ever are, but there are a lot of serious, ugly, society-wide / international issues that have caused the issues that made young men read his books. And the answer isn't focusing on yourself - the answer is getting together in groups of men, talking about what an unacceptable mess everything has become, and taking action as a collective; not cleaning your room, petting a cat, or fulfilling the rest of his list alone. His ideas don't scratch the surface of that though. Basically, he's a gatekeeper, whose ideas prevent people from getting to the ideas that would make a difference.

Maybe still has demons to fight. I wouldn’t give it much thought or judgement, people should judge his work on its own merit.

I don't like to resort to ad hominems too quickly or over irrelevant details, but if you write a book on titled rules for life and your life falls into shambles after that book was written, it is a legitimate criticism to say that because your book didn't even help you, it won't help others.

And I'm not trying to talk smack on Peterson for the sake of it. There is a massive issue with lost young men and women that needs to be addressed. But I don't see his ideas as beneficial to the people who need help, which is why I brought this up.

 

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[S.Y.]

I’ve listened to plenty of jordan Peterson. He says a whole bunch of words and you nod your head or say wow.

And then you walk away 5 minutes later and you have no clue what he said and leave with nothing you can use or take away.

You try to explain to someone what you just learned and you end up saying some nonsense about lobsters.

That’s when you realise how pointless it is listening to him.

Someone share something Jordan has said that you remember and that helped you or changed your life.

Don’t post a link to one of his ramblings, actually write in your own words what he said and how it helped you.

I bet you can’t.

Here is one: build the discipline to do things that matter, things that bring value and meaning; rather than to succumb to your desires and impulses. (I think the rule is Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient)

Here is how one practical way to read that. What to do to achieve our goals might not be clear, but most of the time, we know what we should stop doing - the whole idea of improvement by subtraction. We might not know what works, but we sure know what doesn't. It can be cutting social media, cutting video games, cutting processed foods full of sugar.... Stop looking for the easy way out. Things that truly matter requires sacrifices.

 

[Private Witt]

Here is one: build the discipline to do things that matter, things that bring value and meaning; rather than to succumb to your desires and impulses. (I think the rule is Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient)

Here is how one practical way to read that. What to do to achieve our goals might not be clear, but most of the time, we know what we should stop doing - the whole idea of improvement by subtraction. We might not know what works, but we sure know what doesn't. It can be cutting social media, cutting video games, cutting processed foods full of sugar.... Stop looking for the easy way out. Things that truly matter requires sacrifices.

This is awesome, but I feel I'll have the same response as Mitch does with JP and in five minutes it evaporate so I'll just remember Improvement by Subtraction as I have a mountain I can dig in to.

 

[MitchC]

I was expecting the clean up your room example and similar ones but not so many of them

Come on @Kak did you really need him to tell you to stand up straight?

@Antifragile i like your example and I think it could be used on yourself too, do not do things that will make you hate yourself

It also reminded me of something I actually took from him, that playing and physical playing with kids is so important and we are missing that. I actually joined bjj because of that and he is right

His future authoring program is good too

So I guess there is some value, maybe I was a little harsh, I also don’t think he’s toxic, but certainly he isn’t the most aspirational example of someone to follow

But man, back to my original criticism, did you guys really need this guy to use all those words to tell you to clean your room?

Did you really get value from being told to stand up straight?

Also thanks @thechosen1 I’ll add that to my reading list

 

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[Guest-5ty5s4]

I was expecting the clean up your room example and similar ones but not so many of them

Come on @Kak did you really need him to tell you to stand up straight?

@Antifragile i like your example and I think it could be used on yourself too, do not do things that will make you hate yourself

It also reminded me of something I actually took from him, that playing and physical playing with kids is so important and we are missing that. I actually joined bjj because of that and he is right

His future authoring program is good too

So I guess there is some value, maybe I was a little harsh, I also don’t think he’s toxic, but certainly he isn’t the most aspirational example of someone to follow

But man, back to my original criticism, did you guys really need this guy to use all those words to tell you to clean your room?

Did you really get value from being told to stand up straight?

Also thanks @thechosen1 I’ll add that to my reading list

Yeah, overall, the books are more of the fluffy kind. Not actionable advice.

@Antifragile as for the drug bit, the reason why I wouldn’t call it a drug problem was because he was on a prescription the whole time, and he was the one who wanted to get off of it. His doctor was still prescribing it for some reason. It was certainly an issue. But he was the one who quit. Who got him on the pills? The doctor. For a medical reason. It is very different than being a recreational addict. This is just my own opinion… and it’s splitting hairs.

He had some really good videos about it.

Especially the ones where he straight up said “does the fact that I’m imperfect make me a hypocrite?”

Is anyone here perfect?

Do you need to be perfect to give other people advice?

 

[GPM]

I’ve listened to plenty of jordan Peterson. He says a whole bunch of words and you nod your head or say wow.

And then you walk away 5 minutes later and you have no clue what he said and leave with nothing you can use or take away.

You try to explain to someone what you just learned and you end up saying some nonsense about lobsters.

That’s when you realise how pointless it is listening to him.

Someone share something Jordan has said that you remember and that helped you or changed your life.

Don’t post a link to one of his ramblings, actually write in your own words what he said and how it helped you.

I bet you can’t.

I only found out about JP like 6 months ago, prior to that I only knew that Reddit cried everytime they saw his name.

I was having extreme difficulty getting my kids to stay in their room at night and not come out and get into our bed. I have friends who have 6-10 year old kids climb into bed with them every night, I wanted to nip that before it became a serious habit.

When searching for how to cure this I came across my first ever JP video. His advice was to make little presents of whatever, wrap them up, and put them where your kids can see them. If they stay in their bed all night, or do whatever it is you want them to do, they get a surprise in the morning. I used glow sticks, sidewalk chalk, and baby sized smarties boxes. It worked like a charm.

I also stumbled across another one from him that essentially boiled down to "don't let your kids do things that make you dislike them". You will always love your kids, but it is a LOT easier when you also like them. So if they are picking up habbits and doing things that make you not like them you need to squash that fast.

This is about the limit of my JP exposure this far, so anyone who says he is full of shit is probably themselve full of shit. Both items have literally improved the quality of my life in an absolutely measurable way.

 

[MattR82]

I really liked Peterson's chapter on order and chaos, and having one foot in each to help move forward.

I was waaayyy too far into chaos.

He can definitely be very fluffy in some of his stuff though. And there is a lot I don't agree with. But the above mentioned was like a lightbulb moment for me.

 

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[Vinz]

Jordan Peterson is a drug addicted basket case who cries in public far too often. His books are harry potter philosophy and you shouldn't listen to him.

You'd get more out of reading the Loeb library. The ancient Greeks and Romans figured out everything worth knowing about the human condition millenia ago.

And if you're not ready for that yet, go through the posts of this forum's lawn care extraordinaire. You'll get way more out of those than you would from reading "12 rules for keeping disaffected young men from discovering serious ideas that actually help the world".

Self authoring isn't a book, but a "program" were you go through past events, program your future (very similar to the 1/5/10 Planasy) and overall get a better picture of yourself
The program really helped me.
I don't really like 12 rules for life, too wishy washy and not what I needed
Don't know why you think he is so bad. Yeah the books aren't super solid as I said, but the program helped me
What I'm talking is diving more into psychology, I've got into ancient philosophy but again, not what I needed.
For me psychology is much more explanatory of human behavior

 

[Vinz]

The school shooter bit. Chapter in the 12 rules book. It was really good … basically “why do people (insert horrible action I don’t wanna type out)?”

I found that part very eye opening but I agree it wasn’t “actionable.” Not all reading must be for business though.

The best psychology book I’ve ever ready though was Nathaniel branden’s “6 Pillars of Self Esteem.”

The takeaway for me was that the most important thing for self confidence is living according to your values and standing up for yourself and that every time you do something against your own values, you lose face in your own eyes.

*also, I don’t think it’s fair to say that JBP “has drug problems.” But oh well.

Double up on six pillars of self esteem.
For me, it is the book I needed for a long time
Very actionable, to the point, and illuminating about an issue that should be important to everyone, and that I struggled a lot with
His other (kinda complementary) book " how to raise your self esteem" is even more actionable.
I'm studying them to the point. And I'm honestly seeing changes I could never have hoped for.

Which is why I want to dive into psychology now.
Throw me the best books you read !
Thinking fast and slow is already my next one.

Speaking again about JP, the videos of his lectures are probably more valuable than the books

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Double up on six pillars of self esteem.
For me, it is the book I needed for a long time
Very actionable, to the point, and illuminating about an issue that should be important to everyone, and that I struggled a lot with
His other (kinda complementary) book " how to raise your self esteem" is even more actionable.
I'm studying them to the point. And I'm honestly seeing changes I could never have hoped for.

Which is why I want to dive into psychology now.
Throw me the best books you read !
Thinking fast and slow is already my next one.

Speaking again about JP, the videos of his lectures are probably more valuable than the books

Nathaniel Branden is one of the greatest minds I've ever read. I discovered him because of Ayn Rand, of course.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I tried to get genetic/DNA testing so I can continue to prioritize my health. Looks at this bull-shit in the Terms of Service. "PHI" is basically your DNA.

As if I trust a government and/or law enforcement organization with my DNA. "For specialized government fuctions and activities." Yea, sure.

I have a hard time trusting my DNA to a corporation alone, but this shitpile of terms?

F*ck no.

 

[Two Dog]

Do you need to be perfect to give other people advice?

It's never stopped anyone I've ever met.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

It's never stopped anyone I've ever met.

The point is that there are no perfect people.

 

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[Kak]

This might be an unpopular post, but I think some here would be interested to know this bit of information.

The deep psychology and philosophy dives are not something that I have observed the wealthy engaging in.

If you are someone who needs some direction in life, someone who finds meaning in the works of historical philosophers, and it works for you… Great, but I haven’t personally found the need and this stuff has literally never been conversation in my circles either.

I suppose we all have a psychological and philosophical foundation, whether we explicitly define it or not. I guess I just built my own. It’s not based on anyone else’s work and I never think about it as a whole, and rarely think about individual elements.

It goes a bit like this-

• Faith and family first. That means above business and politics. I’d burn it all down and turn everything I’ve ever done inside out if I had to. Don’t care. If it makes more sense for my faith and family to move to Antarctica and just abandon my businesses and life in Texas, ok, sounds good.
• Business over politics. I put my business ahead of my political views. (Think Yellowstone Dutton mentality.) I don’t say the pledge of allegiance. I decide what I’m allegiant to. I don’t care about a flag.
• Be someone others can count on. Reliable, professional, capable, honest, wise and helpful.
• Have an internal locus of control.
• Be a resource. Gain knowledge every day. Intelligence is a choice. Capability is a choice. Never shy away from learning something new. I see people who just give up learning and it is sad. They just declare themselves “someone who doesn’t know how to do that.” Make no mistake, you can learn. Not learning is a decision.
• If I’m not capable of something I want to be capable of, I work on becoming capable of it.
• If business and value is good, more/bigger is always better. If entrepreneurship is an honorable pursuit (and it should be) then more is better.
• “The hard way” is often easier than “the easy way”
• I always want to be a useful value creator. So I’ll likely never traditionally, easy-chair retire. I already feel like I can do whatever I want, so it’s not like I need to create more freedom to play golf in my life.
• Talk is cheap. Prove it with action.
• Comparisons to other people is a waste of time and a cancer to your emotional well being. Everyone has their crap. I wouldn’t trade places with anyone.
• Social Media is nearly useless to me. I either maintain relationships with certain people or I don’t.
• Lead. It’s most of the world’s job to follow a leader. I view it as my job to be the absolute best leader I can be. Someone worthy of that followership.
• Time is is infinitely more finite and valuable than money. Build with that in mind.
• Most of the world is lobotomized by government schools, media, and their “experts.”
• I wholly reject all collectivist solutions for solving the world’s problems. That includes Republican, democrat, nationalist, independent, liberal, WEF, conservative, if it’s a collective solution it’s a way for someone with more guns than you to steal from you.
• Supply and demand are the foundation of actual economics. Most people with economist titles are as useless as psychics or soothsayers. They’re selling snake oil that again benefits the people with more guns than you. John Maynard Keynes was evil.
• Free market is more than an economic principle, it’s also good leadership.
• I am thankful for what I have and what I get to do.
• The law and what’s right are not tethered to one another.

Now I say all this, not because this is some strict code I’ve created for myself that I live by… It’s literally how I’m wired. This is the stuff I do, and believe, WITHOUT really explicitly pondering it. Anyway, maybe that helps someone, and maybe it doesn’t, but it’s about where my psychological and philosophical considerations begin and end. I have deeper whys for each of them, but it has just unfolded that way in my life.

Many of you would consider me someone “that has it all together.” I am convinced only a true sociopath can feel like they “have it all together” all the time. That said, I almost always feel like my life is working properly and the above is essentially my foundational value system.

I suppose my whole point of this is that I view additional pondering of this, at this point, as re-pouring an already stable foundation. Wheel spinning. I decided what my values are a long time ago. They change a little with time, but they are not perpetually under massive review.

 

[Vinz]

This might be an unpopular post, but I think some here would be interested to know this bit of information.

The deep psychology and philosophy dives are not something that I have observed the wealthy engaging in.

If you are someone who needs some direction in life, someone who finds meaning in the works of historical philosophers, and it works for you… Great, but I haven’t personally found the need and this stuff has literally never been conversation in my circles either.

I suppose we all have a psychological and philosophical foundation, whether we explicitly define it or not. I guess I just built my own. It’s not based on anyone else’s work and I never think about it as a whole, and rarely think about individual elements.

It goes a bit like this-

• Faith and family first. That means above business and politics. I’d burn it all down and turn everything I’ve ever done inside out if I had to. Don’t care. If it makes more sense for my faith and family to move to Antarctica and just abandon my businesses and life in Texas, ok, sounds good.
• Business over politics. I put my business ahead of my political views. (Think Yellowstone Dutton mentality.) I don’t say the pledge of allegiance. I decide what I’m allegiant to. I don’t care about a flag.
• Be someone others can count on. Reliable, professional, capable, honest, wise and helpful.
• Be a resource. Gain knowledge every day. Intelligence is a choice. Capability is a choice. Never shy away from learning something new. I see people who just give up learning and it is sad. They just declare themselves “someone who doesn’t know how to do that.” Make no mistake, you can learn. Not learning is a decision.
• If I’m not capable of something I want to be capable of, I work on becoming capable of it.
• If business and value is good, more/bigger is always better. If entrepreneurship is an honorable pursuit (and it should be) then more is better.
• “The hard way” is often easier than “the easy way”
• I always want to be a useful value creator. So I’ll likely never traditionally, easy-chair retire. I already feel like I can do whatever I want, so it’s not like I need to create more freedom to play golf in my life.
• Talk is cheap. Prove it with action.
• Comparisons to other people is a waste of time and a cancer to your emotional well being. Everyone has their crap. I wouldn’t trade places with anyone.
• Social Media is nearly useless to me. I either maintain relationships with certain people or I don’t.
• Lead. It’s most of the world’s job to follow a leader. I view it as my job to be the absolute best leader I can be. Someone worthy of that followership.
• Time is is infinitely more finite and valuable than money. Build with that in mind.
• Most of the world is lobotomized by government schools, media, and their “experts.”
• I wholly reject all collectivist solutions for solving the world’s problems. That includes Republican, democrat, nationalist, independent, liberal, WEF, conservative, if it’s a collective solution it’s a way for someone with more guns than you to steal from you.
• Supply and demand are the foundation of actual economics. Most people with economist titles are as useless as psychics or soothsayers. They’re selling snake oil that again benefits the people with more guns than you. John Maynard Keynes was evil.
• Free market is more than an economic principle, it’s also good leadership.
• I am thankful for what I have and what I get to do.
• The law and what’s right are not tethered to one another.

Now I say all this, not because this is some strict code I’ve created for myself that I live by… It’s literally how I’m wired. This is the stuff I do, and believe, WITHOUT really explicitly pondering it. Anyway, maybe that helps someone, and maybe it doesn’t, but it’s about where my psychological and philosophical considerations begin and end. I have deeper whys for each of them, but it has just unfolded that way in my life.

Many of you would consider me someone “that has it all together.” I am convinced only a true sociopath can feel like they “have it all together” all the time. That said, I almost always feel like my life is working properly and the above is essentially my foundational value system.

I suppose my whole point of this is that I view additional pondering of this, at this point, as re-pouring an already stable foundation. Wheel spinning. I decided what my values are a long time ago. They change a little with time, but they are not perpetually under massive review.

Thanks for the perspective !
You said "an already stable foundation". It can describe my problem. I lack a good foundation which wasn't given to me by my parents . I understood some of that growing up (still 23) but I feel a missed a lot of steps.
Everyone is different, someone might need to build that foundation in a conscious way
But now I feel that, as I am building the foundation, I can then go on making my own decisions, by my standards and considerations, without always needing advice (internet advice) which I always needed.

When did you develop this values ? Did you learn them from somebody ?

Me wanting to dive deep into psychology is for , like I said, developing a good foundation. But also out of interest.
A lot of what you described seems like something that grows out of experience. What if a lack of psychological stability inhibits action and experience ? And shouldn't I focus on developing that base first ?

What Nathaniel Branden talks about in his book is all internal. No law, free market, politics or faith.
Responsibility, integrity, self acceptance.
Again, someone that has problems with that will find great value in it. I did.
Stoicism gave me support in difficult times, but other than that, people focus on it too much for sure.

 

[Kak]

When did you develop this values ? Did you learn them from somebody ?

The honest answer to the first question is never. I have never unpacked or developed these. I just identified them already being there.

For question two, I’m going to credit an amalgamation of everything I’ve tried, failed at, succeeded at, people I respect, people I don’t respect, and why. There wasn’t just one wise figure that gave me these, they are uniquely mine and are truth when tested against my experiences.

Again, I’m not perfect. I’m not even suggesting anyone should attempt to replicate this… I’m just satisfied with what my life is and that is the lens I look at the world through.

I’ll be honest and admit I’m not fully sure what stoicism is and I also don’t care about Marcus Aurelius, but people seem to mention it here when I talk about Steven Covey’s circle of influence vs circle of concern… I really like that concept.

What if a lack of psychological stability inhibits action and experience ? And shouldn't I focus on developing that base first ?

Why do you believe you have a lack of psychological stability? What makes you think that? Identifying a problem means you know that is a problem. If you know it’s a problem, it’s probably because you hold some kind of value that you are contradicting.

I’m am the farthest thing from a psychologist you will find on the forum. Again, some people may need stuff like this, I didn’t give it that kind of thought. I also started businesses well before this list of values looked the way it does today. I’m sure it will continue to change, but in the case of how I ran my life, no, I didn’t develop a philosophical or psychological base before I became an entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur shaped my values not the other way around.

I think the irony is that people go seeking the psychological and philosophical combination that’s “the best” before starting they’re going to die still pondering what’s “the best.” The happiest and most fulfilled people don’t have time to wonder if they are happy and fulfilled.

Be a solid person and move forward.

 

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[GPM]

So I have been cutting bad foods out of my diet. No more Oreos, or chips, or ice cream and stuff. I have 0% Greek yogurt with thawed out blueberries in it rather than having flavored stuff or adding honey to mine.

Instead of chips and stuff I'll make popcorn once a week or so, and I am slowly lowering the butter content on it.

Other than that I eat pretty much the same. The weather is also terrible so I am getting 0 cardio now since I don't own a winter bike anymore and I am stuck in Canada this winter.

Adding all these things up, with 0 intent to do so, I have lost about 5lbs, and I am not exactly a big guy so that's significant. I have been the same weight for about 15 years. Small changes to the diet and without the intention to do so and my weight is down. That's pretty interesting to me.

 

[GPM]

Random thought: You know you are starting to get old when you are sneaking your own purchases into your own Christmas stocking and going to act surprised when you see it.

 

[MTF]

So I have been cutting bad foods out of my diet. No more Oreos, or chips, or ice cream and stuff. I have 0% Greek yogurt with thawed out blueberries in it rather than having flavored stuff or adding honey to mine.

Instead of chips and stuff I'll make popcorn once a week or so, and I am slowly lowering the butter content on it.

Other than that I eat pretty much the same. The weather is also terrible so I am getting 0 cardio now since I don't own a winter bike anymore and I am stuck in Canada this winter.

Adding all these things up, with 0 intent to do so, I have lost about 5lbs, and I am not exactly a big guy so that's significant. I have been the same weight for about 15 years. Small changes to the diet and without the intention to do so and my weight is down. That's pretty interesting to me.

How are you NOT overeating when stuck at home during winter? That's a huge challenge for me. I have no issues whatsoever spending hours a day training (assuming I have no injuries and have energy) but I find it extremely hard to limit food.

 

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[GPM]

How are you NOT overeating when stuck at home during winter? That's a huge challenge for me. I have no issues whatsoever spending hours a day training (assuming I have no injuries and have energy) but I find it extremely hard to limit food

About 3 weeks or so after cutting chips and stuff out of my diet I rarely crave snacks anymore. I craved salt and vinegar chips SO BAD for a long time since you can't get them in Mexico. Miss Vickies Costco bags of salt and vinegar were my weakness. Now I can be starving and shopping, see a bag of them, and have 0 desire to eat them.

The less crap I eat, the less I want to eat it.

I still snack, but now it is roasted peanuts (1.2kg tub of them from costco! So good! If you get them from the grocery store they are usually cooked in canola oil), cheese, or other various mixed nuts, or a piece of fruit.

The less I eat, the less I find I even want to eat. All those cravings and binge eatings are slowly going away. So even not being addicted to food, it turns out I WAS actually addicted to that crap and I did not even know it. I went through withdrawal from it all the same, and now that it is essentially out of my system I don't even want it.

The last time I had a chip (that wasn't a plain taco chip, I still eat those from time to time in homemade salsa) was on September 11 of this year. I knew the habit was kicked when our daughter got some chips in a goodie bag for some kids birthday party about a month ago, and rather than eat them I just threw them in the trash. I still have a bunch of those mini chocolate bars from Halloween that were not handed out, and I am probably going to throw them out or give them away as well.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I don't like to resort to ad hominems too quickly or over irrelevant details, but if you write a book on titled rules for life and your life falls into shambles after that book was written, it is a legitimate criticism to say that because your book didn't even help you, it won't help others.

This is an interesting discussion. I agree, Peterson has failed to live up to his own philosophy. And this is coming from someone who wishes very much he could say that that’s not true. Because I share Peterson’s political views by and large and really would have liked to see him succeed.

But he hasn’t. The doctor may have prescribed him the benzos for a medical condition, but he’s a psychologist who has published works about addiction. The fact he was unaware of the possible complications is preposterous. The whole narrative of trying to blame the doctor, and spinning it as if it wasn’t addiction is just a media game imo.

The fact of the matter is he had symptoms of ANXIETY, and he was prescribed medication to solve his ANXIETY. But why would he have anxiety, when his philosophy pretends to be precisely the solution to that anxiety? And even in the case he did, why did he need to accept some pills in order to “ease the pain” and “handle it”? Wasn’t his philosophy enough?

I think the irony is that people go seeking the psychological and philosophical combination that’s “the best” before starting they’re going to die still pondering what’s “the best.” The happiest and most fulfilled people don’t have time to wonder if they are happy and fulfilled.

Be a solid person and move forward.

Hah, this is very true. I think the issue is that it’s hard for some personality types to do things before they “figure it out”. I can bet that for @Vinz the next question will essentially be “how can I be a solid person and move forward?”

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

The deep psychology and philosophy dives are not something that I have observed the wealthy engaging in.

Mostly agree. The Hindus separated the priests & merchants into different classes. Both roles are very demanding in their own ways.

Though Peter Thiel did quite well in both.

Many of you would consider me someone “that has it all together.” I am convinced only a true sociopath can feel like they “have it all together” all the time.

Agreed. The essence of human nature is struggle and conflict.

What if a lack of psychological stability inhibits action and experience ? And shouldn't I focus on developing that base first ?

This is a luxury belief. If you were conscripted by the roman army to fight against the Gauls you'd be too busy fighting to stay alive to analyze your own psyche.

Most of the thoughts in your head are useless and you should ignore them.

 

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[Antifragile]

Most of the thoughts in your head are useless and you should ignore them

Isn’t that the truth!

 

[Antifragile]

This might be an unpopular post

This is the only part of the post that was unpopular .

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

This might be an unpopular post, but I think some here would be interested to know this bit of information.

The deep psychology and philosophy dives are not something that I have observed the wealthy engaging in.

If you are someone who needs some direction in life, someone who finds meaning in the works of historical philosophers, and it works for you… Great, but I haven’t personally found the need and this stuff has literally never been conversation in my circles either.

I suppose we all have a psychological and philosophical foundation, whether we explicitly define it or not. I guess I just built my own. It’s not based on anyone else’s work and I never think about it as a whole, and rarely think about individual elements.

It goes a bit like this-

• Faith and family first. That means above business and politics. I’d burn it all down and turn everything I’ve ever done inside out if I had to. Don’t care. If it makes more sense for my faith and family to move to Antarctica and just abandon my businesses and life in Texas, ok, sounds good.
• Business over politics. I put my business ahead of my political views. (Think Yellowstone Dutton mentality.) I don’t say the pledge of allegiance. I decide what I’m allegiant to. I don’t care about a flag.
• Be someone others can count on. Reliable, professional, capable, honest, wise and helpful.
• Have an internal locus of control.
• Be a resource. Gain knowledge every day. Intelligence is a choice. Capability is a choice. Never shy away from learning something new. I see people who just give up learning and it is sad. They just declare themselves “someone who doesn’t know how to do that.” Make no mistake, you can learn. Not learning is a decision.
• If I’m not capable of something I want to be capable of, I work on becoming capable of it.
• If business and value is good, more/bigger is always better. If entrepreneurship is an honorable pursuit (and it should be) then more is better.
• “The hard way” is often easier than “the easy way”
• I always want to be a useful value creator. So I’ll likely never traditionally, easy-chair retire. I already feel like I can do whatever I want, so it’s not like I need to create more freedom to play golf in my life.
• Talk is cheap. Prove it with action.
• Comparisons to other people is a waste of time and a cancer to your emotional well being. Everyone has their crap. I wouldn’t trade places with anyone.
• Social Media is nearly useless to me. I either maintain relationships with certain people or I don’t.
• Lead. It’s most of the world’s job to follow a leader. I view it as my job to be the absolute best leader I can be. Someone worthy of that followership.
• Time is is infinitely more finite and valuable than money. Build with that in mind.
• Most of the world is lobotomized by government schools, media, and their “experts.”
• I wholly reject all collectivist solutions for solving the world’s problems. That includes Republican, democrat, nationalist, independent, liberal, WEF, conservative, if it’s a collective solution it’s a way for someone with more guns than you to steal from you.
• Supply and demand are the foundation of actual economics. Most people with economist titles are as useless as psychics or soothsayers. They’re selling snake oil that again benefits the people with more guns than you. John Maynard Keynes was evil.
• Free market is more than an economic principle, it’s also good leadership.
• I am thankful for what I have and what I get to do.
• The law and what’s right are not tethered to one another.

Now I say all this, not because this is some strict code I’ve created for myself that I live by… It’s literally how I’m wired. This is the stuff I do, and believe, WITHOUT really explicitly pondering it. Anyway, maybe that helps someone, and maybe it doesn’t, but it’s about where my psychological and philosophical considerations begin and end. I have deeper whys for each of them, but it has just unfolded that way in my life.

Many of you would consider me someone “that has it all together.” I am convinced only a true sociopath can feel like they “have it all together” all the time. That said, I almost always feel like my life is working properly and the above is essentially my foundational value system.

I suppose my whole point of this is that I view additional pondering of this, at this point, as re-pouring an already stable foundation. Wheel spinning. I decided what my values are a long time ago. They change a little with time, but they are not perpetually under massive review.

This would be a good thread/post

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Double up on six pillars of self esteem.
For me, it is the book I needed for a long time
Very actionable, to the point, and illuminating about an issue that should be important to everyone, and that I struggled a lot with
His other (kinda complementary) book " how to raise your self esteem" is even more actionable.
I'm studying them to the point. And I'm honestly seeing changes I could never have hoped for.

Which is why I want to dive into psychology now.
Throw me the best books you read !
Thinking fast and slow is already my next one.

Reading books is at best a very slow way of improving self-esteem imo. Your current level of self-esteem and current values are formed and shaped by years of experience.

You can start chipping away at that only by giving yourself different experiences. The confidence that you can deal with what life throws at you, that’s acquired… by actually dealing with what life throws at you successfully.

It’s impossible (and perhaps harmful) to have confidence if you’re not prepared. For example, someone who has never been in a professional or street fight and has never trained would be crazy to feel confident about getting in the ring with say Andrew Tate. It would actually be harmful for them to feel confident.

They should feel scared - and the way they should deal with that fear is by practicing really hard, getting a good coach, and training for the fight.

NOT by drinking, procrastinating, meditating, not thinking about it, positive visualization, working on their self-esteem, reading books and so on.

The problem for most people who struggle is that they have ineffective strategies for dealing with negative emotions. Their strategies consist mainly of illusions and magical thinking…

Thinking that by working on your self-esteem you’ll be successful in business is magical thinking. Thinking that by meditating you’ll be more successful is once again magical thinking. Same for affirmations, visualization and all the rest of it.

It’s magical thinking simply because those things can never be causes that bring about the desired effects. Success in business doesn’t care about whether you meditate, practice affirmations, have high self-esteem or anything else. It just cares about the right actions being performed in the right way, which is what brings about success.

Just like in a fight with say Andrew Tate, it’s not your affirmations or positive thinking that will get you to win, it’s being able to dodge his kicks and punches and strike when he’s vulnerable… as well as your endurance. These are the actual, physical causes of success in fighting. Mindset is just the cherry on top of the cake…

So while books like Nathaniel Branden’s may be helpful for people who have never thought much about their life and don’t have things together, I think they have only marginal utility for people who have a good foundation: no addictions, a long/term relationship/family, property, little/no debt, good health & physical condition, good nutrition.

People who already have this foundation actually need more experience to grow and improve their self-esteem. It’s a trap to think you first need “more” to get started. If that’s the thinking, then you’ll never get started. Because the magical thinking is actually distracting you from the very things that could actually change your situation for the better.

 

[MTF]

Just like in a fight with say Andrew Tate, it’s not your affirmations or positive thinking that will get you to win, it’s being able to dodge his kicks and punches and strike when he’s vulnerable… as well as your endurance. These are the actual, physical causes of success in fighting. Mindset is just the cherry on top of the cake…

Reminds me of this:

 

[UK_Mike]

I think the gas station I use just swapped in a credit card one. It was free before. Other places around here still have quarter machines.

Mine too - the old one was free, now they charge. I guess they have to maintain the machine and that costs. But it will only take card / phone payments, and I usually have loads of bits of loose change that I'd rather use. I mean, I'd rather it went back to free, but if I've got to pay, at least let me use up the little coins. Free ones very thin on the ground now, though.

My air machine is literally my bike pump. That is an insane workout!

Mine too, though a floor pump rather than a little one. I have a mini compressor that's always in the boot and runs off the lighter socket, but I can pump up my slow puncture quicker than the compressor does it, and it would be even quicker if I could fix the slow leak around the valve that ensures some air is coming out as I pump it back in. I have a "proper" compressor in the shed, but at this time of year that involves 5-7 minutes playing a hot air gun on it so the fuse doesn't blow when the pump starts up from cold, and then another 5 minutes waiting for it to fill the air tank. I do pump the tyres up with it, but only when it's on for something else.

 

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[Consolation]

I’ve listened to plenty of jordan Peterson. He says a whole bunch of words and you nod your head or say wow.

And then you walk away 5 minutes later and you have no clue what he said and leave with nothing you can use or take away.

You try to explain to someone what you just learned and you end up saying some nonsense about lobsters.

That’s when you realise how pointless it is listening to him.

Someone share something Jordan has said that you remember and that helped you or changed your life.

Don’t post a link to one of his ramblings, actually write in your own words what he said and how it helped you.

I bet you can’t.

As a fan of JBP, I agree.

I have to write notes due to his ramblings. I have to go through many of his videos to find what he was rambling on. As a non-English speaker, I have to rewind, skipped back and forth a lot in his videos to understand what the hell he was saying. His political-themed videos are pointless to me.

And the PUAs and self-help gurus (of which I despise) used a lot of his videos. Sometimes to the point of taking it out of context. Just as what you have pointed out - they can't express JBP without using his own words.

'Rescue you father' will take a 4-hours clip by DRJBP.

I'm still a fan, though.

 

[MitchC]

Microsoft Clarity is incredible

And it’s free

How are more people not talking about this? How did I not know about this sooner?

Here I was paying for Hotjar like an idiot

Hotjar is worse in every single way and slows your site down and costs money, and it can be really expensive depending how many visits you want

Microsoft Clarity has features that make doing what you’d use hotjar for 1000x easier and faster

Bing ad manager absolutely sucks and all they had to do was copy google.

So strange they just absolutely knocked Clarity out of the park and it’s free when Bing ads is so bad and actually makes them money.

Also what a strange situation for hotjar. Just sit there collecting money from people who haven’t discovered clarity yet and pray they don’t.

Their offer now is to literally pay for something worse than what you can get for free from Microsoft. Ouch.

If you’re doing ecom set clarity up.

You can filter recordings by JavaScript errors, angry clicks, quick back button presses, dead clicks, and then go and fix all those issues with your site.

You can also watch recordings live while they’re on your site, a frustrating but helpful experience for launching new offers like I did today for Black Friday. You can see and make changes in real time based on what people are doing.