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klix

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If you're on a "paleo" diet, you've just been fooled and sold to on a fad diet that is unhealthy and has adverse long-term effects.

If you want to follow the diet of the paleolithic humans, than listen to a person who studies fossilized human shit for a living. Not someone who makes his money marketing a diet book in the diet industry.

Here is a TEDx talk from someone who actually studies human shit for a living, debunking the plaeo diet Debunking the paleo diet: Christina Warinner at TEDxOU - YouTube
 

theag

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Who cares what people ate millions of years ago. Fact is, if you eat paleo style you eat a lot healthier than with the standard american diet. It works for fat loss for people. Your video is useless in proving your argument of paleo being unhealthy, as she just talks about what people ate, not if its healthy.

This whole "what is the best diet discussion" is so useless. In the youtube sidebar for your video there are a lot of other ted talks on diet, probably all with conflicting views, from vegan bodybuilding to whatever. Who cares whats the healthiest diet? I dont want to spend my time reading up on all of this shit to maybe live one year longer from the additional health benefits of the "best" diet. Nobody cares about this marginal improvement, except for diet book writers who need a link bait.

Personally I moved on from paleo to carb nite because it gives me better results for fat loss and one hardcore cheat day each week.
 

mayana

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Who cares what people ate millions of years ago. Fact is, if you eat paleo style you eat a lot healthier than with the standard american diet. It works for fat loss for people. Your video is useless in proving your argument of paleo being unhealthy, as she just talks about what people ate, not if its healthy.

This whole "what is the best diet discussion" is so useless. In the youtube sidebar for your video there are a lot of other ted talks on diet, probably all with conflicting views, from vegan bodybuilding to whatever. Who cares whats the healthiest diet? I dont want to spend my time reading up on all of this shit to maybe live one year longer from the additional health benefits of the "best" diet. Nobody cares about this marginal improvement, except for diet book writers who need a link bait.

Personally I moved on from paleo to carb nite because it gives me better results for fat loss and one hardcore cheat day each week.

I definitely agree with you about the point being just that the paleo diet is healthier than the S.A.D. diet - it's a huge improvement!

The one point where I'd differ would be that it's not really about living longer - it's the quality of the life that we do live that I think we are all striving to improve.

Whether it's a waste of time to read about different styles of eating, or diets, I think that at some point there is probably a "diminishing returns" problem. If someone eats a terrible diet and is developing health problems and is overweight, then making repeated changes and continued learning is a great thing. If you are really healthy and have been studying about health for years, then it might not be worth the time investment to spend a lot of time studying dietary issues.

Personally, I am not at the point where I feel like I know all that I need to know about my body and nutrition... so, I still like digesting (pun! ha!) information on the subject.
 

theag

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The one point where I'd differ would be that it's not really about living longer - it's the quality of the life that we do live that I think we are all striving to improve.

Whether it's a waste of time to read about different styles of eating, or diets, I think that at some point there is probably a "diminishing returns" problem. If someone eats a terrible diet and is developing health problems and is overweight, then making repeated changes and continued learning is a great thing. If you are really healthy and have been studying about health for years, then it might not be worth the time investment to spend a lot of time studying dietary issues.

Personally, I am not at the point where I feel like I know all that I need to know about my body and nutrition... so, I still like digesting (pun! ha!) information on the subject.

Yes, I agree with the quality of life of course, but I believe that the benefits between paleo and other forms of "improved diet" are really marginal compared to the difference between SAD and the "improved" ones.

I also still read quite a lot of stuff on nutrition and training (hence my switch to the carb nite solution, which is very low carb with one carb-refeed day a week to reactivate the fat burning hormones, see athlete.io for those interested) and despite this have the same feeling of not knowing a thing haha. But I feel like I'm getting closer to understanding what is needed from diet and training to support my goals (high mental performance for business and a nice physique for the ladies :banana:).

So yeah I definitely agree with the deminishing returns, thats what I wanted to say with my post but you said it better. Nothing bad about reading up on nutrition and training styles, but after a certain level your time is probably better invested elsewhere and you don't need to watch all the diet gurus debunking each others diets ;).
 

TheTruth

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Nutrition On Autopilot + Kickass mentors?


Ok great, now that I have your attention, I am putting together a group of 5 people to set-up a mastermind for nutrition and fitness.

Since there are quite a few people on here that have vast knowledge and are constantly improving this area of their life, naturally I decided to post here first.

Why am I doing this?

I have 2 business masterminds and they work wonders on keeping on track + you get new insights every week (not to mention you develop very intimate relationships with those people over the months).

I have been doing ok with nutrition, but I still have some stomach issues and I fall off the regime every now and then.

Great, so what do I bring to the table?

- I know how to run a real mastermind

- I played basketball (triple A), tennis, soccer and was into bodybuilding for a while

- Since I had some health complications last year, I expanded my extensive knowledge on nutrition (basically I know what every Guru preaches and have tried tons of challenges) -> if you have a specific diet you are trying, more likely then not I will have some experience with it

- I have built up recipes and smoothie mixes that taste killer and are very healthy.

How will this work?

We have a Skype meet-up every week and discuss what we accomplished, go over what the plan is for next week and gain feedback/advice/punishment from the group.

All goals will be track-able and there will be a 3 phase punishment system for not reaching you weekly goals. (These will be verified as a group)

Please comment in this thread why you want to be part of it and how you can contribute. Looking forward to meeting and learning from everyone who becomes part of this.
 

workingtitle

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I'd like to give the mastermind a shot. I know quite a bit about weight loss/gain.

In High School I weighed 230 lbs at 5"6. I dropped down to 132 and was dangerously underweight. Then I discovered bodybuilding and got up to 180. Tore my shoulder (showing off to a girl -- I know) and dropped back down to 140. Now, I'm 6' and 180 again. I've read everything under the sun when it comes to nutrition, workout regiments, and supplements and I can contribute my (unfortunately too much) life experience.
 

theag

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I'm definitely interested in this. Spending quite some time in improving my diet and workouts. I don't play competitive sports right now and only lift things up and put them down. Want to get back into competitive sailing soon, so that might be another area I could help out with if somebody is into this too.

Lost about 50lbs over the last 8 months and am now working more on building muscle/strength while cutting fat at the same time which is supposedly possible with the carb nite solution diet I'm currently using.

Looking forward to the group!
 

TheTruth

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I'd like to give the mastermind a shot. I know quite a bit about weight loss/gain.

In High School I weighed 230 lbs at 5"6. I dropped down to 132 and was dangerously underweight. Then I discovered bodybuilding and got up to 180. Tore my shoulder (showing off to a girl -- I know) and dropped back down to 140. Now, I'm 6' and 180 again. I've read everything under the sun when it comes to nutrition, workout regiments, and supplements and I can contribute my (unfortunately too much) life experience.

I'm definitely interested in this. Spending quite some time in improving my diet and workouts. I don't play competitive sports right now and only lift things up and put them down. Want to get back into competitive sailing soon, so that might be another area I could help out with if somebody is into this too.

Lost about 50lbs over the last 8 months and am now working more on building muscle/strength while cutting fat at the same time which is supposedly possible with the carb nite solution diet I'm currently using.

Looking forward to the group!


Cool guys,

Sorry for a bit of a delay (10000 headaches these days) ...

I'll Pm you details soon.
 

jatx

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Cool guys,

Sorry for a bit of a delay (10000 headaches these days) ...

I'll Pm you details soon.

I am interested as well. I have experimented will all sorts of ways of eating and after finding and refining the right diet I lost 25lbs of fat and gained back 25lbs of muscle (back to same weight, look/feel so much better). I was "skinny fat" before that. Now I coach people on this stuff as a fun side gig. I've learned a lot from this community and would love to contribute in any way I can.
 

qewrtyass

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im no fanatic to any kind of diets.
the key is organic and closest to nature. thats all.
 

Sheldon

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The Paleo Diet is the bees knees. My own educational background is in ecology and evolutionary biology and let me just say that the second I heard the argument for the paleo diet form a scientific perspective, I was immediately sold. It's funny because I had heard the term "paleo" before from one of my buddies that does crossfit, but I never assumed that the diet was based off of evolutionary science. My rec, go paleo! You're body will thank you. The only other thing I'd add is fresh fruit and veggie juice! That stuff will kick start your health like nothing else.
 

Sheldon

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im no fanatic to any kind of diets.
the key is organic and closest to nature. thats all.

That's exactly what the paleo diet is. It's about eating organic as much as possible, eating whole foods as much as possible (i.e. close to nature) and grass fed meats as much as possible. There are other aspects such as removing grains, legumes and dairy as well, but that's all part of the "back to nature" part of it. Except that when a paleo person says back to nature, they mean back to prehistoric nature. The paleo diet is the diet we evolved to eat. It's not just a "diet" in the colloquial sense of the word as something you do for a while to lose weight. It's a total health lifestyle. Check it out and I'm sure you will be highly intrigued.
 

Sheldon

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I use Nutribullet. Instead of dinner i have a shake with celery, carrots, kale, cucumber, blueberries' banana, and protein powder. Such a huge difference in energy in the morning.

If you're on a "paleo" diet, you've just been fooled and sold to on a fad diet that is unhealthy and has adverse long-term effects.

If you want to follow the diet of the paleolithic humans, than listen to a person who studies fossilized human shit for a living. Not someone who makes his money marketing a diet book in the diet industry.

Here is a TEDx talk from someone who actually studies human shit for a living, debunking the plaeo diet Debunking the paleo diet: Christina Warinner at TEDxOU - YouTube


Look up Dr Loren Cordain. If you look at some of his research you'll see he does extensive research on extant hunter gatherers as well as paleontological surveys to back up the Paleolithic diet. Don't be overly swayed just because someone did a TED talk about it. I'm at work now, but I will review the evidence presented in the talk when I get home.
 

Sheldon

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Here is a TEDx talk from someone who actually studies human shit for a living, debunking the plaeo diet Debunking the paleo diet: Christina Warinner at TEDxOU - YouTube

So I watched the video and here's what I came up with as counter arguments.

Myth 1: We were designed for a plant-based diet.
The speaker uses the examples that we need Vitamin C from plants and the fact that we have a longer digestive tract than carnivores as evidence that we should be eating a plant-based diet. The problem with this evidence is that it is only part of the picture. Yes, we have a longer digestive tract than a pure carnivore, but we have a shorter digestive tract that a pure herbivore. Why? Because we are OMNIVORES. Further, if you take a look at the size of the guts of our ancestors from millions of years ago, their gut size was much larger, which indicates that our omnivorous diet began to include a larger percentage of meats. Probably because we were such ballers at hunting since we used our brains, spears, and bows and arrows and such. The paleo diet recommends 50-55% of your daily calories to come from meat, fish and seafood based on 229 living hunter-gatherer societies. One other point, we can’t get B12 from plants, but we need it to survive. Look at vegans; they need a B12 supplement to live.

Myth 2: Paleolithic people ate grains and legumes.
This argument is again not complete. Just because someone has found an ancient mortar and pestle says nothing about what the complete diet consisted of or the food availability. Perhaps the few people that used the mortar and pestle only did so as a starvation aversion. There’s no way of knowing how much was in their diet, or how it affected their health. This is another reason why Dr. Cordain supplements archeological data with the survey data from 229 living hunter-gatherer societies.

Myth 3: We eat a farmer’s diet
Her argument is extremely unfocused here and she hasn’t really addressed what the modern day paleo diet really is. I’m going to use Dr. Cordain again; he calls his diet the “21st Century Paleo Diet”. Translation: because we no longer have the time nor the means to live a truly paleolithic lifestyle, the 21st century paleo diet aims to recreate a diet similar to a very generalized stone-age diet, i.e. because different locations had access to different food sources, they must be combined and simplified to their constituent parts. Now, one of the biggest differences is that we have bred much of our food to be easier to digest (Who cares? That doesn’t mean you should eat grains), and we have access to food that has originated from all over the world (same comment as before). That’s just the benefit of science and a global society that our ancestors didn’t have access to.
She focuses on how we’ve improved the food we eat through the years. One more time: Who cares? This doesn’t mean anything scientifically. That’s how I can tell she’s an archaeologist, rather than a real scientist. She should look at the physiological data backing the reasons for why grains (especially gluten containing grains), dairy and legumes aren’t good for you.


Finally, she says to eat whole foods and have diversity in our diet. Well, there’s no conflict with paleo there. So, Paleo wins!
 

Likwid24

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If you're on a "paleo" diet, you've just been fooled and sold to on a fad diet that is unhealthy and has adverse long-term effects.

What exactly are these long-term side effects you speak of???? Never heard or read anything about it. And don't give me a link to a Huffington Post article written by a "Nutritionist".

BTW- I guess I'm a fool if, in the last 9 months, went from 15% body fat to less then 7% body fat. Am stronger than I've ever been. In better cardio condition than I've ever been. More energetic (You can ask anyone that knows me. They all ask where the hell I get my energy from). Better sleeping habits. No more stomach pains, and A LOT less gas. Hardly ever get sick, and if I do, I'm over it realll quick.

I even had blood work done 2 months ago, and had a doctor questioning what I'm doing to be in such unbelievable shape. She was actually amazed at my blood work. I found it pretty amusing.

I've never had so many people ask me what kind of diet I'm on, or what I do to stay in such great shape, my entire life. And I'm 35.

So I guess if I'm considered a fool for that, then I LOVE being a fool!
 

quickdrawyall

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My opinion on the paleo diet: If the foods were that great and that superb, cavemen wouldn't have had an average life expectancy of 16 years. I've gained more weight, had more energy, and had better lifts just eating whatever I wanted while making sure my fiber, protein, baseline fats and micronutrients were covered.
 

Tiger

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Caveman didn't have to deal with genetically modified grains and other proteins that seems to be wreaking havok on our systems.
The difference in my inflammation levels, pain and overall health is night and day when I cut out sugar and grains.

Grains are completely unnecessary and offer little to no nutritional value. The little vitamins and minerals they do have can be found elsewhere in much healthier options.
My opinion on the paleo diet: If the foods were that great and that superb, cavemen wouldn't have had an average life expectancy of 16 years. I've gained more weight, had more energy, and had better lifts just eating whatever I wanted while making sure my fiber, protein, baseline fats and micronutrients were covered.
 

quickdrawyall

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Caveman didn't have to deal with genetically modified grains and other proteins that seems to be wreaking havok on our systems.
The difference in my inflammation levels, pain and overall health is night and day when I cut out sugar and grains.

Grains are completely unnecessary and offer little to no nutritional value. The little vitamins and minerals they do have can be found elsewhere in much healthier options.

You're correct. Grains offer little to no nutritional value other than as a unit of energy. That doesn't make them bad, and I know that I personally in bodybuilding can hardly gain significant size or muscle without grains added in my diet.

I don't buy that the health benefits that result from the paleo diet have to do specifically with cutting out grains. I believe it's what's put in the diet that replaces grains. You cut out grains and all the sudden you're not eating out as much, you're having more fruits, more vegetables, more whole meats. And if one isn't taking a multivitamin derived from whole foods, then they're probably missing out on at least a couple micronutrients as well as phytonutrients(which are unnecessary, but do improve your health, you just don't need them to survive). It also means you're usually cutting out hydrogenated oils, which are proven to be detrimental to your health.

Also, I don't really buy that you cut out sugar -- there's plenty of sugar in paleo foods, and I'm betting the difference you think there is between sucrose(table sugar) and fruits and vegetables isn't actually what you think it is.

I'm by no means saying that Paleo is bad. It's a very simple way to do the things that the average person should be doing to improve their diet and health. I just also think it's unnecessary for the average person.

You also may be experiencing those benefits because you might have some form of gluten intolerance. But that's just a wild guess, you would obviously know better than me about how things work for your body.
 

andviv

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My opinion on the paleo diet: If the foods were that great and that superb, cavemen wouldn't have had an average life expectancy of 16 years. I've gained more weight, had more energy, and had better lifts just eating whatever I wanted while making sure my fiber, protein, baseline fats and micronutrients were covered.
How old are you?
Body fat %?
 

quickdrawyall

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How old are you?
Body fat %?
Two very poor factors for judging someone's credibility in fitness or health.

However, I'm 19 and don't measure body fat. I don't trust scales that claim to measure fat %, one time a scale that was typically considered pretty accurate told me I had a 3% body fat(seeing as I wasn't a bodybuilder on anabolic steroids right before a show, that'd be near impossible for me to be at). And as for the calipers, I've had two different personal trainers measure my body fat within days of each other and got completely different numbers without my diet changing. So I don't trust the human error factor either. I really only trust things like water displacement, DEXA scanning or those "bod pods", and paying for however much measurements from those things for me is just not valuable at all.

Nonetheless, I used to be a huge advocate for all natural 'clean' eating, since I got into fitness and working out about 2 1/2 years ago, starting at about 135 pounds. About 1 year ago I started strength training, and about 6 months ago I dropped clean eating and adopted flexible dieting, although lately it's been more of a "eat whatever the hell I want as much as I want while hitting basic nutritional requirements for my health and to continue obtaining progress", since I'm less concerned about my body composition right now and more interested in size gain and strength gain. So in the last 6 months I've gone from about 165 pounds to 200. The body fat increase has been noticeable, but not significant enough to make my body look bad. Yet in that time the strength in all my major lifts has probably increased by about 50%.

However there are very lean, well respected bodybuilders, nutritionists and fitness enthusiasts who subscribe to the same philosophy, so don't take my word for it.
Look up
Alan Aragon
Layne Norton
Matt Ogus (extremely lean, very strong, very flexible diet)
Chris Lavado
Nick Wright (very strong, has gotten very lean, not so much currently)

To my knowledge, none of them take any hormones.
 

andviv

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Sorry. Goodbye credibility.

At that age I was able to eat a whole pizza for breakfast, another one for lunch, and a pint of ice cream for dinner and wouldn't gain any fat.
At 28-30 things do change.

The only reason I gave paleo a try was because the original poster, who was 34-35 when this started, did see improvements.

Maybe this is an old people diet --old as in 30+

I do agree with you though. Only each of us can tell the difference our food has on our body.
 

quickdrawyall

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Sorry. Goodbye credibility.

At that age I was able to eat a whole pizza for breakfast, another one for lunch, and a pint of ice cream for dinner and wouldn't gain any fat.
At 28-30 things do change.

The only reason I gave paleo a try was because the original poster, who was 34-35 when this started, did see improvements.

Maybe this is an old people diet --old as in 30+

I do agree with you though. Only each of us can tell the difference our food has on our body.

Well that doesn't make much sense. There are plenty people my age with sloppy bodies.

Nonetheless, Layne Norton is over 30, as is Alan Aragon. Layne Norton also has clients in their 30s who also see results with his planning.
http://www.biolayne.com/clients/

Besides, you saying that you could eat a whole pizza for breakfast, another one for a lunch, and a pint of ice cream from dinner is about the calories/macronutrients, not the content of the food. You're talking about foods that are calorie dense. I guarantee that if you ate 10 sweet potatoes a day, a gallon of raw milk, and 8-12 oz steaks, you'd gain a lot of weight on the paleo diet as well.

But, the fact of the matter is it'd be very hard to eat that because those are very filling foods. That's why people find the paleo diet works for them to lose weight, because the fibrous foods and the foods that are dense in fats that don't come from vegetable oils and high-protein foods satisfy them while consuming less calories, and getting more of their basic daily micronutrient requirements.

That's why it works, not because there's something magical about eating like cavemen.
 

benhebert

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I'm about to begin a 45-day paleo journey that should be interesting especially given the fact that I absolutely love carbs and pasta. I've read that it's difficult initially for your body to convert other items to energy. It's a good thing I have an unlimited supply of my own product SMART CAFFEINE.

For those looking for a little more on the diet, I wrote about the foundations of paleo here.
 

MattCour

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Mark's Daily Apple is a really fantastic resource for Paleo/Primal!! Some of the success stories are mind blowing, check them out.. I personally am a big believer in eating whole foods 95% of the time.. It's worthwhile just for the mental clarity alone, not to mention the physical benefits.
 

mlwhite79

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Gonna agree with Matt - Mark's Daily Apple is one of the most popular and helpful blogs on Paleo diet. I haven't tried it myself but I've read lots about it - I try to stick to unprocessed foods when possible.
 

Likwid24

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Sorry. Goodbye credibility.
At that age I was able to eat a whole pizza for breakfast, another one for lunch, and a pint of ice cream for dinner and wouldn't gain any fat.
At 28-30 things do change.

When I was that age, I thought I had it all figured out too. Lol.
 

Likwid24

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My opinion on the paleo diet: If the foods were that great and that superb, cavemen wouldn't have had an average life expectancy of 16 years. I've gained more weight, had more energy, and had better lifts just eating whatever I wanted while making sure my fiber, protein, baseline fats and micronutrients were covered.

Do a little research before you make such a silly statement.
 

FutureWorldDominator

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Paleo is alright.... losing weight and looking good is very simple workout,cardio AND FOLLOW YOUR MACROS! KEEP TRACK OF CALORIES... more calories in gain weight, more calories out lose weight... it's so simple... yet people make it so difficult, that's why the fitness industry is a billion dollar industry cause people try and make it more complicated then it is!
 

quickdrawyall

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When I was that age, I thought I had it all figured out too. Lol.
Do a little research before you make such a silly statement.

It's kind of insulting for you to take a look at my age and immediately discredit me, despite that I'm pointing to extremely credible, much older, big names in the fitness and health community who have PHDs and Masters degrees in nutritional sciences. They practice what I'm preaching, and they have their clients do the same. I don't "think I have it all figured out", if someone were to prove me wrong on any of this, they would. But the fact remains that the smartest, leanest people in the fitness community laugh at people who act like paleo is the only answer.

I would encourage you to do a little more research before you make such a silly statement, as I've done a lot more than a little research. Like I said, look up:
Layne Norton
Lyle McDonald
Alan Aragon
and study the wealth of educated information they've put out there before you dismiss what I'm saying.
Unlike many people who act like paleo dieting is some magical answer, I'm relying off a little more than anecdotal evidence.

Paleo is alright.... losing weight and looking good is very simple workout,cardio AND FOLLOW YOUR MACROS! KEEP TRACK OF CALORIES... more calories in gain weight, more calories out lose weight... it's so simple... yet people make it so difficult, that's why the fitness industry is a billion dollar industry cause people try and make it more complicated then it is!
^ Spot on.
Like I said earlier, the reason the paleo diet works is because it helps people consume less calories. Not some magic property that occurs in cutting out processed foods entirely.
 

Likwid24

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I would encourage you to do a little more research before you make such a silly statement, as I've done a lot more than a little research.

I'm talking about doing your research concerning our Paleolithic ancestors. You made that statement about life expectancy based on what? The average age was 30. Do your research on where that number came from.

We survived for over 2 million years on a Paleo lifestyle. We have evolved into the superior beings we are today. If you look at all the health issues in todays world, it seems as if we're de-volving. Going backwards.

I can go on and on about this, but I honestly don't have the time. I'm extremely serious about nutrition. I've done countless hours of research on all diets/lifestyles. I'm not saying I know everything. I'm just saying that I know enough to make informed decisions about what to eat, and what not to eat. I know what works for me. It might not work for everyone, but it has worked for every single person I have coached.

The Paleo lifestyle isn't about losing weight, or gaining muscle. If that's why your doing it, then your doing it for the wrong reasons. It's about eating whole, natural foods. Cutting out the crap. I've never felt, or looked better in my life. I've tried an endless number of diets. So far, nothing compares.
 

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