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O/T: HEALTH Netflix's Game Changers (Vegan Documentary)

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markK

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For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.
About seven years ago I went to my Naturopathic doctor for my annual check-up.
She ordered blood work and when I went in for the follow-up appointment, she looked at my cholesterol numbers and said, "This is not good!....we need to do something, so you don't have to get on meds."

I was in otherwise pretty good shape with lots of bike riding and some strength training.

She basically told me about the Blood-type diet and put me on a strict vegetarian diet.
I'm like,...forget the meds, let's do this...whatever it takes.

Two months later I got new blood work done and went back.
She couldn't believe it...by going vegetarian, I dropped my total cholesterol by 100 points in two months.

In that two months time I did a fair amount of research and looked into the basis of the blood-type diet.

It does seem that people with Blood Type A, do very well on a vegetarian diet.
(I am a Type A)

It also seems that people with Blood type O, do better with a significant amount of clean animal meat and fat in their diet. They often do well with the Paleo diet.

Does anyone else have any experience with the Blood Type diet?
(Eat Right For Your Type-Dr Peter J. D'Adamo)

Or, are you a Type A or any other type that is thriving on a vegetarian/vegan diet?

In my opinion there are some tendencies with the blood type diet that seem pretty spot on and others...not so much.
 

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About seven years ago I went to my Naturopathic doctor for my annual check-up.
She ordered blood work and when I went in for the follow-up appointment, she looked at my cholesterol numbers and said, "This is not good!....we need to do something, so you don't have to get on meds."

I was in otherwise pretty good shape with lots of bike riding and some strength training.

She basically told me about the Blood-type diet and put me on a strict vegetarian diet.
I'm like,...forget the meds, let's do this...whatever it takes.

Two months later I got new blood work done and went back.
She couldn't believe it...by going vegetarian, I dropped my total cholesterol by 100 points in two months.

In that two months time I did a fair amount of research and looked into the basis of the blood-type diet.

It does seem that people with Blood Type A, do very well on a vegetarian diet.
(I am a Type A)

It also seems that people with Blood type O, do better with a significant amount of clean animal meat and fat in their diet. They often do well with the Paleo diet.

Does anyone else have any experience with the Blood Type diet?
(Eat Right For Your Type-Dr Peter J. D'Adamo)

Or, are you a Type A or any other type that is thriving on a vegetarian/vegan diet?

In my opinion there are some tendencies with the blood type diet that seem pretty spot on and others...not so much.
I can’t ever remember my type.. lol
 

WillHurtDontCare

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As a tennis fan I know that Djokovic diet change was crucial to his peak performance, although in his case he went gluten free so we are not exactly talking about the same thing because he did not go 100% vegan inmediately.
I was listening to the Human Performance Outliers podcast episode 150 with Chris Kruger & he tore into the Game Changers, specifically mentioning how Djokovic's performance declined as a result of going plant-based. He said that his diet related performance increase was due to dropping dairy & gluten I believe, not due to dropping meat. Though keep in mind Kruger is a carnivore / keto diet advocate.

But while evaluating those athletes, compare them to other world class athletes. Just because they're bigger than regular people doesn't mean that they've done anything impressive. Compare them to other world class athletes to see if their diet really gives an edge.
 

WillHurtDontCare

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Though a novel idea that I picked up from Nassim Taleb is to go through cycles of different dieting habits, meaning keto for stretches, paleo for stretches, vegan for stretches, etc. He uses a Greek Orthodox diet calendar I believe.
 

MythOfSisyphus

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Though a novel idea that I picked up from Nassim Taleb is to go through cycles of different dieting habits, meaning keto for stretches, paleo for stretches, vegan for stretches, etc. He uses a Greek Orthodox diet calendar I believe.
Was this mentioned in antifragile?
 

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For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.

I'm happy to say that once I took the plant-based diet seriously, my blood fixed itself. (I admit at first I was a junk food vegan and the results were nominal) No deficiencies (including B12) and my cholesterol finally got under 200. That last time that happened was nearly thirty years ago.
Good that you stayed off statins. Those things are toxins. They lower cholesterol levels (and may reduce coronary problems) but they do it by interfering with some critical biological functions. They cause many serious side effects. The FDA has issued an expanded warning on the dangers of statins, and studies show statins offer almost no improvement in overall all-cause survival rates. See e.g. this meta-analysis: Statins are not associated with a decrease in all cause mortality in a high-risk primary prevention setting | BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine

Cholesterol is not the devil -- your body NEEDS cholesterol. Your brain is something like 40% cholesterol, and your cell walls are made of the stuff. I can't find the studies right now, but recent large-scale studies say that cholesterol is vital. If you look at all-cause mortality, it DROPS as cholesterol levels increase, until you get to about 250 mg/ml (for men). After that the all-cause mortality starts to go up. So 250 is actually BETTER for you than <200. For women, the all-cause mortality keeps dropping as cholesterol increases.

My cholesterol runs in the 250-300 range, always has. My MD was convinced I was going to keel over any second and tried to feed me statins. Finally we measured my carotids with a sonogram, and found I had absolutely clean arteries -- the report said it was like a man half my age.

Cholesterol isn't the cause of the problem; it's a symptom. It's like a band-aid that's used to try to heal the problem: inflammation. Usually caused by sugar, stress, pollution, etc. Reduce your sugar intake and you'll help your atherosclerosis without statin's nasty side effects.
 

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I recently watched the documentary after a recommendation by a friend. There does appear to be an agenda.

But one benefit they mentioned is something I’ve struggled with, I have trouble doing squats because of an Inflammation in a tendon. Haven’t been able to fix it. I’ve decided to do a vegan experiment for 2 months to see if the mentioned increased bloodflow to tendons helps finally resolve the inflammation.
 

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Good that you stayed off statins. Those things are toxins. They lower cholesterol levels (and may reduce coronary problems) but they do it by interfering with some critical biological functions. They cause many serious side effects. The FDA has issued an expanded warning on the dangers of statins, and studies show statins offer almost no improvement in overall all-cause survival rates. See e.g. this meta-analysis: Statins are not associated with a decrease in all cause mortality in a high-risk primary prevention setting | BMJ Evidence-Based Medicine

Cholesterol is not the devil -- your body NEEDS cholesterol. Your brain is something like 40% cholesterol, and your cell walls are made of the stuff. I can't find the studies right now, but recent large-scale studies say that cholesterol is vital. If you look at all-cause mortality, it DROPS as cholesterol levels increase, until you get to about 250 mg/ml (for men). After that the all-cause mortality starts to go up. So 250 is actually BETTER for you than <200. For women, the all-cause mortality keeps dropping as cholesterol increases.

My cholesterol runs in the 250-300 range, always has. My MD was convinced I was going to keel over any second and tried to feed me statins. Finally we measured my carotids with a sonogram, and found I had absolutely clean arteries -- the report said it was like a man half my age.

Cholesterol isn't the cause of the problem; it's a symptom. It's like a band-aid that's used to try to heal the problem: inflammation. Usually caused by sugar, stress, pollution, etc. Reduce your sugar intake and you'll help your atherosclerosis without statin's nasty side effects.
A lot has changed in regards to cholesterol. Hasn’t it been found that dietary cholesterol has little effect on blood cholesterol levels?
 

garyfritz

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A lot has changed in regards to cholesterol. Hasn’t it been found that dietary cholesterol has little effect on blood cholesterol levels?
I don't think that's been settled. The standard party line is that you can control cholesterol with diet, but I suspect it's affected much more by genetics.

But my point was that the cholesterol level doesn't really matter. According to the meta-analysis I read, with 10's of thousands of participants, "high" cholesterol is not dangerous. 250 mg/dL is BETTER for you than <200. If I remember right, men had to get up around 280-300 before their all-cause mortality got back up to the level seen at 200. You may have more coronary issues at 250 than at 200, but you will have fewer problems in other areas.

I found another, more recent, even larger meta-analysis. This one says the optimal level is about 230, and it doesn't show the constantly-improving all-cause mortality for women. (The study participants were all Korean, so it's conceivable they might have somewhat different cholesterol metabolism than Caucasians.) But it covers over 12 MILLION people, so it should carry some weight.


 

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Cholesterol is not the devil -- your body NEEDS cholesterol.
I tend to agree which is why I refused to go on the statins for years. Part of me believes that the demonization of cholesterol is just another Scripted conspiracy to drum up pharmaceutical sales. Reminds me of the "low fat" craze some decades ago. Yet, while I never was a full believer of the cholesterol narrative, given a choice I'd rather have a cholesterol at 200 vs 300. I have substantial anecdotal evidence in my life that when my readings where high, even beyond where I was comfortable, I also felt like dogshit.
 

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Cholesterol isn't the cause of the problem; it's a symptom. It's like a band-aid that's used to try to heal the problem: inflammation. Usually caused by sugar, stress, pollution, etc. Reduce your sugar intake and you'll help your atherosclerosis without statin's nasty side effects.
Thats usually my argument for doing the ketogenic diet. High fats are not the problem, but instead inflammation. Thats why its hard to ask typical doctors of switching to any new diet because they usually stick to their guns and not explore newer options in diets. Most of them echo the same ideas of low salt, no fried foods, etc. I haven't had lab results in a while, but I do take meds for hypothyroidism, statin for high cholesterol, and don't take anything for my low testosterone. After a month or so on the keto diet, I am curious if my body has gone through any cellular changes. I certainly feel great and have lost tons of weight.
 

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Reiterating that I haven't seen this particular documentary, for me the real story is that the mainstream medical establishment REFUSES to address to their patients that nutrition and diet are interlinked to disease.

You can pull up any nutrition based documentary, whether it be Paleo, Raw/Whole Food, Plant-Based, Keto, and each will present an argument (and evidence) that a significant dietary lifestyle change can reverse disease, or their markers. The American diet is so f*cked up that any substantial dietary change focused on nutrition tends to have profound results.

Right now it's easier for MDs to prescribe a pill than it is to tell someone that their diet is killing them.

http://instagr.am/p/B4nSCuAJlsR/ View: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4nSCuAJlsR/
 

WillHurtDontCare

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Reiterating that I haven't seen this particular documentary, for me the real story is that the mainstream medical establishment REFUSES to address to their patients that nutrition and diet are interlinked to disease.

Right now it's easier for MDs to prescribe a pill than it is to tell someone that their diet is killing them.
Anyone who feels unwell, physically, psychologically, or in whatever piece of your overall health should consider whether the following criteria are met:
  • Sufficient sleep
  • Sufficient exercise
  • Sufficient nutrition
  • Sufficient socializing
  • Sufficient sunlight
I think that the most infuriating thing about being alive today is that almost all of us are wired to seek complex (or rather, novel) solutions to problems when simple ones provide the best results. Note I feel this way not just about health, but life in general.

You can pull up any nutrition based documentary, whether it be Paleo, Raw/Whole Food, Plant-Based, Keto, and each will present an argument (and evidence) that a significant dietary lifestyle change can reverse disease, or their markers. The American diet is so f*cked up that any substantial dietary change focused on nutrition tends to have profound results.
And to steal an idea from Nassim Taleb, sometimes cycling between those diets is sufficient (I think that he uses the Greek Orthodox calendar). I think in each one of those diets you get dogmatists & fanatics (probably true of any popular movement) who say that there way is the one true way. I've tried keto (1 year), paleo (a few years), vegeterian (2 years), and now I'm back to keto (almost paleo).

I think an important takeaway is that you can get different benefits under different circumstances and you can benefit from periodically going from one to another. The important part is to look at your consumption strategically and avoid eating certain foods together (I've heard that carbs & fats shouldn't be mixed because they cause weight gain).

TLDR: Those diets work because they are systems, and those systems provide benefits (sometimes unique, sometimes overlapping).
 

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I found the documentary super good, of course it is a bit biased showing all those athletes winning at their sports with their vegan diet however that being said we have examples in tennis (Djokovic is pretty much plant based) and Soccer (Lionel Messi) so probably there is some truth about it.

Diet is just one part of your "wellbeing" equation so you have to also see other variables to optimize your life. A guy like Warren Buffet eats like a fat 5 years old however he is healthy because of low stress and overall enjoyment of life.


its not about being a veggie or carnivore but rather macronutrients and whole foods.

documentaries like this are interesting but in general, diet cults should be avoided
 
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WillHurtDontCare

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"If you want to advance a private interest, turn it into a public cause."


James Cameron has a vested financial interest in a company the sells vegan products, so his motivations behind this documentary are suspect.

Keep in mind that vegan meat alternatives are processed food. Beyond Meat contains garbage like canola oil. I'll dig up the points that I've read on why canola oil is horrible for you later - it's been a bit since I've thought about it so I need to find my notes.
 

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Yes, for several years.

However discussing a plant-based diet (or the pejorative, veganism) is like religion and politics. As such, I refuse to do it here. People don't care about facts (or the closed-door reality of the meat trade) and are mostly interested in defending their biases with their selective studies and anecdotal YouTube videos. So I'll just share my experience.

I went vegan after I did the research, and from all angles and all extremes. As an animal lover, I found it was another cultural Script that I couldn't reconcile. Other factors played a role as well, so it was the combination of factors that made me do the move.

Prior to that I was Paleo for 6 years and a heavy meat eater.

Based on my personal results and how I feel, I will be vegan for the rest of my life, regardless if the dietary shift is just a fad or more transcendent.

As for the results, I recently saw someone who I hadn't seen in twelve years. He looked at me and asked, "Wow, did you discover the fountain of youth?" For someone my age, I'm in great shape. My energy levels are better than when I was Paleo. When I look at other folks my age they have guts billowing above their belt, zero muscle tone, bad skin, and are on six medications.

But moreover and more importantly, quantitatively, my blood results are the best I've seen in thirty years. YES, thirty years.

For over two decades I've been fighting high cholesterol (dangerously high levels) and it took all I could to resist the medical establishment's insistence I get put on drugs, namely cholesterol lowering statins. You're at a severe risk of heart attack was the common refrain I heard every year I had my blood work.

I'm happy to say that once I took the plant-based diet seriously, my blood fixed itself. (I admit at first I was a junk food vegan and the results were nominal) No deficiencies (including B12) and my cholesterol finally got under 200. That last time that happened was nearly thirty years ago.

Additionally, I've had GERD since my mid-30's and was advised to take a daily proton-pump inhibitor, aka Zantac, et. al. That also disappeared as did the need for the medication.

That's my experience. Of course it is anecdotal and just one story, but someone asked.

As for this documentary...

I haven't seen it so I can't comment.

I'm sure it is produced with an agenda, so I can see why some might call it "propaganda" as all narrative based documentaries are produced with that in mind.

Whatever anyone decides, you have to do what works for you, both heart and soul. What started out as the hardest thing I've ever accomplished, has become quite easy. And I'm happy with the outcome.

PS: I get plenty of protein, but thanks for asking.
At the risk of derailing the thread, would you (or anyone!) recommend a specific plant-based cookbook/recipe website?

I'm not ready to make a complete switch, but the wife and I need to add in more vegetables. We tend to create one pot meals, which can limit the amount of vegetables we work in.
 
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"If you want to advance a private interest, turn it into a public cause."


James Cameron has a vested financial interest in a company the sells vegan products, so his motivations behind this documentary are suspect.

Keep in mind that vegan meat alternatives are processed food. Beyond Meat contains garbage like canola oil. I'll dig up the points that I've read on why canola oil is horrible for you later - it's been a bit since I've thought about it so I need to find my notes.
Yea I get it.. I think raw food diet stuff is probably the most beneficial. Im thinking about volunteering at the local organic garden but they’re asking for a full background check and I’m all.. that’s a lot of check boxes. Wtf.. lol.

I really might just end up ordering from Purple Carrot the very second my income goes to the next level. I just.. ugh. Cooking is still an issue.
 

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James Cameron has a vested financial interest in a company the sells vegan products, so his motivations behind this documentary are suspect.
That's not surprising, any food-based/diet based documentary will have an agenda. And those financing the agenda often have other interests.

Keep in mind that vegan meat alternatives are processed food.
Funny how non-vegans think vegans are all about the meat alternatives.

Yes, vegan meat alternatives are probably as junky as any non-vegan junk food. No matter what anyone eats, canola is simply not a good oil, and it doesn't matter what label it receives. A vegan who truly eats "plant-based" ain't eating Beyond Burgers and Gardien everyday, but maybe once every few weeks, perhaps at a restaurant or at a weekend BBQ.

would you (or anyone!) recommend a specific plant-based cookbook/recipe website?
I don't have any, but you would be amazed at what can be done. You have to be willing to experiment with things. Your best bet is to go to Costco or a book store and find a vegan cookbook. Flip through it and buy the one that has the most recipes that strike you as tasty. Use those recipes as templates.

I should also note that your taste cravings will change to more plant-based options as you progress. The intial shift is the hardest thing I ever did, but it gets easier as your body adapts to less sugar and processed carbs.
 

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Funny how non-vegans think vegans are all about the meat alternatives.

Yes, vegan meat alternatives are probably as junky as any non-vegan junk food. No matter what anyone eats, canola is simply not a good oil, and it doesn't matter what label it receives. A vegan who truly eats "plant-based" ain't eating Beyond Burgers and Gardien everyday, but maybe once every few weeks, perhaps at a restaurant or at a weekend BBQ.
I don't think that vegans are all about meat alternatives. When I was vegetarian for the better part of 2 years I ate mostly beans, broccoli, spinach, berries, & nuts.

I brought up the meat alternatives because I got caught up in them myself, and people end up thinking they are just as good as meat from a nutrition standpoint, but better because they aren't actually meat. In this case my problem isn't with vegans, but with processed food getting called healthy, because I fell for that.
 

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A thorough failure masked as being "Scientific"
Don't let them make you think it's okay to cut out your BIGGEST source of essential nutrients.

Game changers is a criminally misleading waste of film funded by a man with a clear conflict of interest (founder and CEO of a 140 million dollar pea-protein enterprise). Many things could be said, and many thorough takedowns, debunkings, and teardowns can be found online. I implore to start with just one and see if you aren't facepalming at some of the film's claims after.

One takedown that EVERYONE should check out, is Layne Norton's beautiful, one-two demolition. Norton is an uber-skeptic, and usually HATES modern "low-carb/carnivore" diet trends; but even he can smell the BS: The Game Changers Review - A Scientific Analysis | Biolayne

I won't get too deep since I have a clear conflict of interest (2 year high-protein animal-sourced low carb diet) But I've seen the corporate push to feed the lower classes cheap processed and profitable plant foods for awhile now. Considering the irreparable damage and millions of lives lost just with the "fat demonization"movement of Ancel Keys in the 70s with MILLIONS dead of preventable heart attacks/strokes/cancers, I only see tens of millions of more dead, sickly, and dying if we let our steak savoring billionaires dictate that we eat solely soy protein and insects for years to come. They want you to live like an animal. Choose to be a human.
 

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You may “feel” better at first (usually placebo or just change in general), but after a while the lack is certain vitamins and nutrients takes it’s toll.
You know why they feel better? Because they stop eating cereal and a bagel with cream cheese for breakfast. A sandwich, chips and a coke for lunch, and pasta with meatballs for dinner, with sugary snacks and drinks in between all day.

In other words, they stop putting processed garbage in their body all day every day, and start eating healthier foods. Of course you'd feel better. You'd feel better if you ate healthier and still consumed some meat.

Another thing people report is weight loss. And if you're eating the garbage I talked about above, of course you'll lose weight. Things that taste good are usually high in calories. People eat 3-4,000 calories a day and not even know it.

Vegetables are super low in calories, so people unknowingly put them selves in a calorie deficit, then think that a miracle happened when they cut 10lbs.


This is an extreme and silly example ^ But weight loss comes down to being in a calorie deficit, not eating plants.

I think this thread has gotten a bit off topic though haha.
 

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But I've seen the corporate push to feed the lower classes cheap processed and profitable plant foods for awhile now. Considering the irreparable damage and millions of lives lost just with the "fat demonization"movement of Ancel Keys in the 70s with MILLIONS dead of preventable heart attacks/strokes/cancers, I only see tens of millions of more dead, sickly, and dying if we let our steak savoring billionaires dictate that we eat solely soy protein and insects for years to come. They want you to live like an animal. Choose to be a human.
But I've seen the corporate push to feed the lower classes cheap processed and profitable factory-farmed meat for awhile now. Considering the irreparable damage and millions of lives lost just with the "carb demonization"movements of Keto and Paleo with MILLIONS dead of preventable heart attacks/strokes/cancers, I only see tens of millions of more dead, sickly, and dying if we let our steak savoring billionaires dictate that we eat antibiotic and hormone stuffed protein for years to come. They want you to live like an animal. Choose to be a human.


I'm not denying anything about the Game Changers production, I haven't done the research, but this attitude 'billionaires want you to do X' is a villain creation strategy used by almost every side.

Everyone thinks that their side is the underdog. "I'm part of the rebels, and THEY are the Empire."

Maybe the pea-protein guy isn't the bad guy. Maybe the meat industry is and the pea-protein is a capitalist (we're pro that here, right?) changing the world via the free market?

And I say this as someone who will have meat for every meal.
 

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Veganism can work for a very small select few people but the vast majority will FAIL on the diet and should not be considered a healthy diet. Like the smoker who smokes 2 packs a day and lives till 90 years old, there will always be outliers.

Common side effects of veganism are: accelerated aging, cavities, rotten teeth, depression, anxiety, acne, digestion issues, "skinny-fat" build, lack of libido, irritability, loss of muscle, lack of energy, brain fog and hair loss among females.


There are hundreds of "I'm no longer vegan" videos on youtube and that list is growing every week. There were some famous vegan youtuber enfluencers who were busted eating fish which goes to show you they were shilling all along for affiliate links all along while telling their audience to go vegan.

If someone wants to go vegan, I'm all for it but I can't stand on the sidelines and let vegan propoganda like the game changers mislead people about how healthy veganism is. For most people, it is destructive to your health. Any vegan who is promoting veganism as a healthy diet for everyone is flat out misinformed.

Here are the missing micronutrients that vegans are not getting: Vitamins A, B6, B12, D, F, K2, Creatine, Carnitine, Carnisine, Taurine, Heme-iron, CoQ10, and CLA.

Try veganism at your own risk

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HwBtRlyxPs


My cousin and my one of my good friends turned vegan and they did it for "ethical" reasons. Anecdotally, I've noticed that the vast majority of vegans I meet are atheist who seem to be filling a spiritual void in their lives. They constantly spam my facebook feed about how everyone should convert to veganism. It's really annoying and I am tempted to screen shot their posts and post it here.

It's strange that a lot of vegans are "left-leaning", socialist, intersectionalists, 3rd wave feminist, globalists, anti-religion, and anti-free markets. Whenever I meet a vegan in real life, I can make assumptions about that person's beliefs and politics which are usually correct.

On a lighter note...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
 

MakeItHappen

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Common side effects of veganism are: accelerated aging, cavities, rotten teeth, depression, anxiety, acne, digestion issues, "skinny-fat" build, lack of libido, irritability, loss of muscle, lack of energy, brain fog and hair loss among females.
What? lol I call bullshit on this. Each of these side effects effect millions upon millions of people... no matter if they eat vegan, paleo, keto etc. ... you can eat junk food bullshit with each of these diets. And you can eat in a way that gives you all the vitamins and minerals you need with all of these diets.

I have become a vegan years ago and so have 8 people around me... none had the effect you talk about. Now that's just anecdotal experience. I have eaten junk food and healty diets when I wasn't a vegan and I have eaten junk food and healty since I am a vegan. You can do both and all the "common side effects" you talk about will happen to you if you eat junk food. This doesn't happen if you choose healty sources for your vitamins and minerals. I have had blood tests over the years and so have most of the 8 people and they are all fine.

Everybody that comments on these kind of threads pushes there own beliefs anyways and nobody changes there minds. That's why I haven't commented on these threads but a comment like yours is so ignorant it isn't even funny...

I have watched game changers and yes like each and every documentary it has an agenda just like the documentaries about paleo, keto etc. ...

BTW... I have started lifting when I went vegan with a friend that eats meat, diary and eggs but without any junk food, snacks and sweets. We both gained the same amount of muscle over the years and we are both healty accourding to our blood tests. This teached my friend that you can be healty and ripped as a vegan which he didn't believe at all at the beginning. At the same time it helped me to not become a "militant" vegan because I see that my friend is doing just fine health wise as well with his diet.
 

Maxboost

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And you can eat in a way that gives you all the vitamins and minerals you need with all of these diets.
The vegan diet is nutrient deficient and needs supplementation in "order for it to work". A diet that needs pharmaceutical supplements is NOT healthy.

What I would like to know are what supplements are you taking? The majority of mico nutrients I have listed can ONLY be found in animal food sources.

I have become a vegan years ago and so have 8 people around me... none had the effect you talk about.
These side effects are all common on the hundreds of "ex vegan" testimonials on youtube. It's odd that the 8 vegan friends of yours would share their medical and dental reports with you. I've never shared my health reports with my best friends and I never asked them about theirs either...It's flat out none of my business.....

The vegan diet is often LOADED with sugars which rots your teeth, gives you a boost of energy, and effects your quality of sleep. The lack of micronutrients causes constant food cravings which causes irratability since vegans are "full" but never "satiated". My cousin would ALWAYS eat every couple of hours...

You can do both and all the "common side effects" you talk about will happen to you if you eat junk food.
What's junk food made of? You guess it....plants! If you do the nutrient breakdown of Mcdonalds, it is loaded with plant derivatives and cheap processed meat from factory farms that was fed grain. Chips and chocolate bars are all made of processed plant material. What do vegans eat?...ONLY plants!

Plants do not want to be eaten. See the video. That is why many EX-vegans reported digestion issues and in some cases were hospitalized..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnnklDVhso


We both gained the same amount of muscle over the years
I call BS on this. I am an experienced lifter since I was a teenager with plenty of friends who have competed in bodybuilding. Either your friend was not lifting correctly using progressive compound movements, eating enough calories, resting correctly or working out consistently. EVERYONE who has done some kind of bodybuilding will tell you need meat to build a base for muscle growth, just ask a LEGIT strongman about it...

View: https://youtu.be/fGenwfzJJyA
 

broswoodwork

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Devilery

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Common side effects of veganism are: accelerated aging, cavities, rotten teeth, depression, anxiety, acne, digestion issues, "skinny-fat" build, lack of libido, irritability, loss of muscle, lack of energy, brain fog and hair loss among females.
I tried to avoid topics about vegan diet, but damn, where did you get all this information from?
I've been vegan for 2 years. Yeah, not that long, but enough to tell a difference. Guess what?
I'm looking, feeling and performing better than ever. Could I have progressed the same on any other diet? Probably. But I just can't let you leave such a crap here.

You mentioned a looot of side-efects, but zero sources? How come?
I won't deny that vegans can experience them. Yet these are very common issues for all types of diets.

Here's my experience: I have gained 15 pounds of mostly lean weight in past 10 months and pretty much doubled all my compound lifts. I do endurance sports - swimming, running, cycling. I'm bigger, stronger, hornier and more motivated than ever before.

Of course, it takes time until you fully adjust to vegan diet. It DOES take research and then putting the acquired knowledge in practice.

Here's the thing about deficiencies. Most of what you mentioned actually can be found in plant sources, but few of them (b12, creatine, carnitine, carnisine, cla can't). I do take supplements, quite a lot actually. Mainly due exercising 6 times a week (even more in the summer), but also because I'm vegan. Honestly, I don't see such a big deal because I rather take few supplements instead of contributing to the barbaric animal farming industry AND damaging my health.

Yes! It does take effort. Yes! It does complicate several aspects of life. And I honestly don't even care what you eat, but please, if you do make such a serious claims - back them up. Thank you!
 
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MichaelCash

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It is hard to be a vegetarian because you need to know how to get enough proteins which you need for your hair, nails, bones, etc. Even pork has a lot of nutrients and vitamins that your body needs.
 
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