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O/T: HEALTH Netflix's Game Changers (Vegan Documentary)

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alekssiht

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Watched it and I actualy went vegeterian after this. Been eating this way for a month now.
EDIT
This I have noticed so far:
After meal bloating/gases went away.
Digestive system works much better, stool looks healthy( Poop that is passed in one single piece or a few smaller pieces is typically considered to be a sign of a healthy bowel) so that got fixed within a week.
Much more clarity in head(No brain fog nor the feeling of food coma, even when consumed a relatively large meal) Which when I ate "normal" diet, happened pretty often.
Also I had some burning feeling in my esophagus from some food(which I have not figured out, what made it) but it is gone now.
Can't complain about the cost of a grocery basket(mabye 5 to 10 EUR difference)
Also, quit dairy. Face skin looks much more healthier(Mabye I had some tolerance issues). I had these small acne type pimples around my mouth(Which is an indication, that digestive system is disturbed) and my back is clean from any red spots.

Cons
People are giving me a lot of shit about that eating choice(Figured out quickly that it is easier, just not to tell when being asked.(A petrol station worker actually laughed through her teeth when I ordered a Vegan tortilla)
Need some discipline and to get a quick snack from petrol stations or smaller shops is complicated at times.
Needs more prep and some reading about food nutritional value to get all the necessary nutrients.
 
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alekssiht

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It is hard to be a vegetarian because you need to know how to get enough proteins which you need for your hair, nails, bones, etc. Even pork has a lot of nutrients and vitamins that your body needs.
It needs some more knowledge about foods in general but it dedinitely is not hard. I would say it is more interesting to cook and from my 1 month experience so far, it has been very educational for me.
And there are excellent recipes for high protein/calories meals, which are tasty and very good looking!
 

luniac

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I chose the middle way, i eat a a little meat with my salad and a little meat with my potatoes.
I don't buy factory farmed meat, i do research on the brands i buy and hope for the best.
I probably get like 30-50 grams of protein from meat directly. I also eat 4 eggs daily.
I'd be concerned about long term effects of veganism.
Some guys like MJ seem to be doing great, but i hear stories of people's health getting worse too so i don't know.

That said, i don't believe in consuming tons of meat, you end up pissing out the excess protein anyway from what i've read. You can also develop kidney stones i think.
 

alekssiht

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I chose the middle way, i eat a a little meat with my salad and a little meat with my potatoes.
I don't buy factory farmed meat, i do research on the brands i buy and hope for the best.
I probably get like 30-50 grams of protein from meat directly. I also eat 4 eggs daily.
I'd be concerned about long term effects of veganism.
Some guys like MJ seem to be doing great, but i hear stories of people's health getting worse too so i don't know.

That said, i don't believe in consuming tons of meat, you end up pissing out the excess protein anyway from what i've read. You can also develop kidney stones i think.
Nice to hear that!
But is it not bad to eat too much eggs? Due excess cholesterol
 

Maxboost

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I tried to avoid topics about vegan diet, but damn, where did you get all this information from?
I've been vegan for 2 years. Yeah, not that long, but enough to tell a difference. Guess what?
I'm looking, feeling and performing better than ever. Could I have progressed the same on any other diet? Probably. But I just can't let you leave such a crap here.

You mentioned a looot of side-efects, but zero sources? How come?
I won't deny that vegans can experience them. Yet these are very common issues for all types of diets.

Here's my experience: I have gained 15 pounds of mostly lean weight in past 10 months and pretty much doubled all my compound lifts. I do endurance sports - swimming, running, cycling. I'm bigger, stronger, hornier and more motivated than ever before.

Of course, it takes time until you fully adjust to vegan diet. It DOES take research and then putting the acquired knowledge in practice.

Here's the thing about deficiencies. Most of what you mentioned actually can be found in plant sources, but few of them (b12, creatine, carnitine, carnisine, cla can't). I do take supplements, quite a lot actually. Mainly due exercising 6 times a week (even more in the summer), but also because I'm vegan. Honestly, I don't see such a big deal because I rather take few supplements instead of contributing to the barbaric animal farming industry AND damaging my health.

Yes! It does take effort. Yes! It does complicate several aspects of life. And I honestly don't even care what you eat, but please, if you do make such a serious claims - back them up. Thank you!



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eefgRVi7Ko


Here are 2 reputable scientists, TL:DW? The vegan doctor got CRUSHED and admitted that the vegan diet IS NUTRIENT deficient at the end. Dr. Kahn (vegan doctor) says "DON'T BE A DUMB VEGAN", takes your supplements, which ultimately begs the question " why would a supposedly superior diet need supplements?".

Also pay CLOSE attention to the end, where ALL of the nutrients that are ONLY FOUND in animal products.

Again, vegans will not address the anti nutrients in plants that prevent the human body from proper digestion. See my previous post. It's basically flat out misinformation from the vegan community that you can GET the same quality nutrients from plants than from animals. The plants defence mechanism will prevent you from getting those nutrients.

As for requiring a research study to show a nutrient deficient diet does terrible side effects shows an appeal to authority fallacy. Nutritional Science (Epidemology) is pretty much useless and junk science as mentioned in the debate above. And nutritional science ALWAYS LAGS real world experience. From the book Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle ( the bible of bodybuilding nutrition) Tom Venuto states that the body building diet in his book HAS NEVER been scientifically verified, even though body builders like arnold schwarzenegger has been doing it since the 60s.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q_kA5yKwFE&t=20s


TL, DW?- nutritional Science is bullshit and part of the script that MJ talks about. Most nutritional scientist are NOT randomized controlled test groups, lack the proper sample size, and include bogus self reporting.

The side effects I listed above are taken from all of the " I'm no longer vegan videos" on Youtube, there are hundreds of them on Youtube. Check this small sample out. If you want, I can post every video on this thread as sources.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g64uGnIdryE


View: https://youtu.be/1BJSG9A7B68?t=132


Aging 10 years in a matter of 2 years....no thanks...

Vegans inject themselves because of their lack of B12, does this look healthy to you?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMV7Eb1p2rY&t=239s


Vegan women lose their periods

Vegan Women Losing Period Compilation

Veganism is just another way for corporations to sell you supplements, fake meat, and medicine when the diet eventually fails you.





 

Matt Sun

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I chose the middle way, i eat a a little meat with my salad and a little meat with my potatoes.
I don't buy factory farmed meat, i do research on the brands i buy and hope for the best.
I probably get like 30-50 grams of protein from meat directly. I also eat 4 eggs daily.
I'd be concerned about long term effects of veganism.
Some guys like MJ seem to be doing great, but i hear stories of people's health getting worse too so i don't know.

That said, i don't believe in consuming tons of meat, you end up pissing out the excess protein anyway from what i've read. You can also develop kidney stones i think.
I'm vegan now but before that i used to eat several eggs a day as you do. Don't your belly fat grows consistently ? Mine surely did.
PS: I used to have alergies, constipation, acne, and other stuff and all is gone since going vegan. I rarely get sick now.
 

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WillHurtDontCare

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To anyone reading this thread: make sure to do your own research. Pick an idea. See if other people agree. Refute the idea. See which idea is most effectively refuted. See which idea withstands the best criticism. Etc.

I eat mostly beef, with things like Greek Yogurt, some greens, and some berries thrown in there. So somewhere between Paleo & Keto.

But I'm still skeptical of any one-size forever diet. A dynamic diet might be best - vegetarian for 1 month, keto for 3 months, vegetarian for 1 month, keto for 6 months, etc.

"When should I eat?" & "When should I eat what?" are probably just as important to overall nutrition.

Having made those points, here are some people criticizing The Game Changers


 

luniac

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I'm vegan now but before that i used to eat several eggs a day as you do. Don't your belly fat grows consistently ? Mine surely did.
PS: I used to have alergies, constipation, acne, and other stuff and all is gone since going vegan. I rarely get sick now.
i practice intermittent fasting and i exercise regularly, can see my abs fine lol
 

alekssiht

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eefgRVi7Ko


Here are 2 reputable scientists, TL:DW? The vegan doctor got CRUSHED and admitted that the vegan diet IS NUTRIENT deficient at the end. Dr. Kahn (vegan doctor) says "DON'T BE A DUMB VEGAN", takes your supplements, which ultimately begs the question " why would a supposedly superior diet need supplements?".

Also pay CLOSE attention to the end, where ALL of the nutrients that are ONLY FOUND in animal products.

Again, vegans will not address the anti nutrients in plants that prevent the human body from proper digestion. See my previous post. It's basically flat out misinformation from the vegan community that you can GET the same quality nutrients from plants than from animals. The plants defence mechanism will prevent you from getting those nutrients.

As for requiring a research study to show a nutrient deficient diet does terrible side effects shows an appeal to authority fallacy. Nutritional Science (Epidemology) is pretty much useless and junk science as mentioned in the debate above. And nutritional science ALWAYS LAGS real world experience. From the book Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle ( the bible of bodybuilding nutrition) Tom Venuto states that the body building diet in his book HAS NEVER been scientifically verified, even though body builders like arnold schwarzenegger has been doing it since the 60s.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q_kA5yKwFE&t=20s


TL, DW?- nutritional Science is bullshit and part of the script that MJ talks about. Most nutritional scientist are NOT randomized controlled test groups, lack the proper sample size, and include bogus self reporting.

The side effects I listed above are taken from all of the " I'm no longer vegan videos" on Youtube, there are hundreds of them on Youtube. Check this small sample out. If you want, I can post every video on this thread as sources.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g64uGnIdryE


View: https://youtu.be/1BJSG9A7B68?t=132


Aging 10 years in a matter of 2 years....no thanks...

Vegans inject themselves because of their lack of B12, does this look healthy to you?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMV7Eb1p2rY&t=239s


Vegan women lose their periods

Vegan Women Losing Period Compilation

Veganism is just another way for corporations to sell you supplements, fake meat, and medicine when the diet eventually fails you.
Dmn, I must admit that the part where you posted the aging videos that made me think a little bit. :D All this nutrition thing is pretty complicated. Can't help to think that on both sides, vegans and omnivores there are these big companies who want us to think this or that. Get us either on one or the other side for just the money and not the actual benefits of it...:S
Think it is better to try out and take the optimal route for an individual
Nice post, thanks
 

OverByte

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Every single one of these videos has a bias and that should be kept in mind. We live in an age of too much information and you can easily cherry pick arguments which support your position and discredit those that do not. Do your own research, experiment and do what works best for you. One thing almost everyone agrees on is eat whole real foods, that's a good place to start. I'd also suggest being cognizant of the new diet honeymoon (the Kresser vid talks about this) where things feel really good to start and noticed that after a few weeks things aren't as positive, so keep that in mind.
 

alekssiht

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Every single one of these videos has a bias and that should be kept in mind. We live in an age of too much information and you can easily cherry pick arguments which support your position and discredit those that do not. Do your own research, experiment and do what works best for you. One thing almost everyone agrees on is eat whole real foods, that's a good place to start. I'd also suggest being cognizant of the new diet honeymoon (the Kresser vid talks about this) where things feel really good to start and noticed that after a few weeks things aren't as positive, so keep that in mind.
Yeah, totally agree with that. Trial and error
 

Maxboost

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Dmn, I must admit that the part where you posted the aging videos that made me think a little bit.
There are hundreds of these videos on Youtube, like this one.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBHIjaL0RuI


I really don't care if people choose to be vegan, my cousin and one of my close friends are vegan but I do have problem with vegans saying the diet is "superior" or "healthy". It simply not true. Many people are getting sick just like Jaden Smith and may lead people down the wrong path.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O_x_fArBrc


If veganism were a car company, they would have thousands of recalls by now.

Every single one of these videos has a bias and that should be kept in mind. We live in an age of too much information and you can easily cherry pick arguments which support your position and discredit those that do not.
You can disprove veganism with logical, deductive arguments without the need for expensive, extensive BIASED scientific studies that will take 20 years to complete.

Here is one:

Premise 1: Man-made, 1st world, artificial diets that lack micronutrients that your ancestors ate for THOUSANDS OF YEARS are unhealthy and should be avoided.

Premise 2: Veganism is a Man-made, 1st world, artificial diet that lacks micronutrients that your ancestors ate for thousands of years.

Conclusion: Veganism is unhealthy and should be avoided by MOST people. Like smoking there will be outliers.

A vegan couple already starved their baby to death.

View: https://youtu.be/YpOviPPKpHA


An ex-vegan mother documents her health recovery and the damage veganism did to her and her young son.

View: https://youtu.be/uQ3Vg_g4uoo


I find it absolutely crazy that members of a forum that has read the book "Unscripted" and are told to think critically fall into the "Script" of veganism, when it can be thoroughly debunked and refuted.

People like James Cameron who produced "The Game Changers" are profitting like John Kellog did in the past by providing vegan misinformation to make billions off of you by selling vegan supplements and eventually medicine.
 

MJ DeMarco

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A vegan couple already starved their baby to death.
Wow, the propaganda on this is some serious next level shit.

When you malnourish a child and fail to feed him, the fact that their parents were vegan doesn't matter. The "vegan" element was added as a convenient fact to help drive an agenda driven story, in other words, to rile up the meat-crusaders like you in a tizzy.

That said...

Curious, @Maxboost did you even bother to watch the documentary?

Or are you so triggered, so threatened by vegans that you've wasted hours posting YOUR propaganda?

Why the F*ck do you care what I eat? Am I telling you what to eat?

Funny how anti-vegans claim that vegans are preachy.

There's only one group on this thread preaching and offering a militant response.

The vegans (those of you who feel like "coming out" and dealing this new form of racism and ridicule) don't care how many videos you post. As if we haven't seen (or heard) it all before.
  • I'm not losing my hair.
  • My blood is fine. (First clean bill of health in over 20 years, but OMG, there's a Joe Rogan video! Oooooh let me dismiss it because some YT celebrity with an agenda says so!)
  • My B12 is fine.
  • I get plenty of protein.
  • I have a better BMI today than I did 3 years ago when I first went vegan.
  • My body-fat % has gone down by 22% while maintaining my muscle-mass.
  • I have more energy.
  • My cholesterol dropped from 272 to 190.
  • My GERD disappeared.
  • My doctor stopped telling to take statins.
  • My doctor stopped telling me to take PPIs.
  • My IBS (bloat and gastrointestinal issues) disappeared.
  • Once I turned 45, penile tumescence ["morning wood"] pretty much disappeared (maybe once per month)and now years later it has returned to a daily occurrence. While I never had ED, there's a difference there as well.
  • My healing time improved. (Recently sprained an ankle that normally would take me about 10 days to get over, but it only took 48 hours.)
I will be vegan for life.

But go ahead, post some more YouTube videos.

Or dare I start posting pro-vegan videos from YouTube? The kind you don't want to see? Of course I wont, because I have respect for whatever diet someone choose to be on.

I find it absolutely crazy that members of a forum that has read the book "Unscripted" and are told to think critically fall into the "Script" of veganism
Ha Ha -- so a practice that is practiced by a tiny % of the world (maybe 3%?) is a SCRIPT?? But what you do -- what EVERYONE does -- and is promoted by trillion dollar empires is NOT the Script??? Do you even hear yourself?

You're delusional.

BTW, if you're practicing what EVERYONE practices, you're following a Script, whether it be tradition, culture, or what the media tells you. (Vegan couple kills baby!!)

I did my research.

And I practiced a variety of lifestyle diets for years.

To everyone else who in considering a vegan diet as a life change, a lifestyle, I wholeheartedly recommend it.

DON'T BELIEVE THEIR PROPAGANDA.

Do what works for you.

Obviously, not all people have the same genetics, so if it doesn't work for you, stop.

Move on.

I don't fall into the camp who believes one diet fits all. Never have.

And BTW, being vegan means plant-based, not Beyond Burgers, Gardien, Impossible Whoppers and processed vegan crap.

PS: I finally watched the documentary but it really didn't tell me anything I already didn't uncover in my own prior research. I also think that showing "outliers" to a vegan diet doesn't really help the cause. People can't relate to athletes and strongmen, they related to the average Joe. I was hoping there would be more of this. I also wasn't a big fan of Arnold showing up... but whatever.

PS2: And here's the real thing of note: This post will get very FEW likes. Why? Because people would rather be right while having me sick as a dog, rather than be wrong and having me rave about health. Imagine reporting that you feel the healthiest you've ever felt in your entire life, better at 50 than 25!? Great right? Perhaps worth a like? Nope, just say you're vegan. Freaking sad.
 
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Wow, the propaganda on this is some serious next level shit.

When you malnourish a child and fail to feed him, the fact that their parents were vegan doesn't matter. The "vegan" element was added as a convenient fact to help drive an agenda driven story, in other words, to rile up the meat-crusaders like you in a tizzy.

That said...

Curious, @Maxboost did you even bother to watch the documentary?

Or are you so triggered, so threatened by vegans that you've wasted hours posting YOUR propaganda?

Why the F*ck do you care what I eat? Am I telling you what to eat?

Funny how anti-vegans claim that vegans are preachy.

There's only one group on this thread preaching and offering a militant response.

The vegans (those of you who feel like "coming out" and dealing this new form of racism and ridicule) don't care how many videos you post. As if we haven't seen (or heard) it all before.
  • I'm not losing my hair.
  • My blood is fine. (First clean bill of health in over 20 years, but OMG, there's a Joe Rogan video! Oooooh let me dismiss it because some YT celebrity with an agenda says so!)
  • My B12 is fine.
  • I get plenty of protein.
  • I have a better BMI today than I did 3 years ago when I first went vegan.
  • My body-fat % has gone down by 22% while maintaining my muscle-mass.
  • I have more energy.
  • My cholesterol dropped from 272 to 190.
  • My GERD disappeared.
  • My doctor stopped telling to take statins.
  • My doctor stopped telling me to take PPIs.
  • My IBS (bloat and gastrointestinal issues) disappeared.
  • Once I turned 45, penile tumescence ["morning wood"] pretty much disappeared (maybe once per month)and now years later it has returned to a daily occurrence. While I never had ED, there's a difference there as well.
  • My healing time improved. (Recently sprained an ankle that normally would take me about 10 days to get over, but it only took 48 hours.)
I will be vegan for life.

But go ahead, post some more YouTube videos.

Or dare I start posting pro-vegan videos from YouTube? The kind you don't want to see? Of course I wont, because I have respect for whatever diet someone choose to be on.



Ha Ha -- so a practice that is practiced by a tiny % of the world (maybe 3%?) is a SCRIPT?? But what you do -- what EVERYONE does -- and is promoted by trillion dollar empires is NOT the Script??? Do you even hear yourself?

You're delusional.

BTW, if you're practicing what EVERYONE practices, you're following a Script, whether it be tradition, culture, or what the media tells you. (Vegan couple kills baby!!)

I did my research.

And I practiced a variety of lifestyle diets for years.

To everyone else who in considering a vegan diet as a life change, a lifestyle, I wholeheartedly recommend it. DON'T BELIEVE THEIR PROPAGANDA. Do what works for you.

Obviously, not all people have the same genetics, so if it doesn't work for you, stop. Move on. I don't fall into the camp who believes one diet fits all. Never have.

And BTW, being vegan means plant-based, not Beyond Burgers, Gardien, Impossible Whoppers and processed vegan crap.

PS: I finally watched the documentary but it really didn't tell me anything I already didn't uncover in my own prior research. I also think that showing "outliers" to a vegan diet doesn't really help the cause. People can't relate to athletes and strongmen, they related to the average Joe. I was hoping there would be more of this. I also wasn't a big fan of Arnold showing up... but whatever.
Thank you.. this thread was getting crazy.
 

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PizzaOnTheRoof

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Wow, the propaganda on this is some serious next level shit.

When you malnourish a child and fail to feed him, the fact that their parents were vegan doesn't matter. The "vegan" element was added as a convenient fact to help drive an agenda driven story, in other words, to rile up the meat-crusaders like you in a tizzy.

That said...

Curious, @Maxboost did you even bother to watch the documentary?

Or are you so triggered, so threatened by vegans that you've wasted hours posting YOUR propaganda?

Why the F*ck do you care what I eat? Am I telling you what to eat?

Funny how anti-vegans claim that vegans are preachy.

There's only one group on this thread preaching and offering a militant response.

The vegans (those of you who feel like "coming out" and dealing this new form of racism and ridicule) don't care how many videos you post. As if we haven't seen (or heard) it all before.
  • I'm not losing my hair.
  • My blood is fine. (First clean bill of health in over 20 years, but OMG, there's a Joe Rogan video! Oooooh let me dismiss it because some YT celebrity with an agenda says so!)
  • My B12 is fine.
  • I get plenty of protein.
  • I have a better BMI today than I did 3 years ago when I first went vegan.
  • My body-fat % has gone down by 22% while maintaining my muscle-mass.
  • I have more energy.
  • My cholesterol dropped from 272 to 190.
  • My GERD disappeared.
  • My doctor stopped telling to take statins.
  • My doctor stopped telling me to take PPIs.
  • My IBS (bloat and gastrointestinal issues) disappeared.
  • Once I turned 45, penile tumescence ["morning wood"] pretty much disappeared (maybe once per month)and now years later it has returned to a daily occurrence. While I never had ED, there's a difference there as well.
  • My healing time improved. (Recently sprained an ankle that normally would take me about 10 days to get over, but it only took 48 hours.)
I will be vegan for life.

But go ahead, post some more YouTube videos.

Or dare I start posting pro-vegan videos from YouTube? The kind you don't want to see? Of course I wont, because I have respect for whatever diet someone choose to be on.



Ha Ha -- so a practice that is practiced by a tiny % of the world (maybe 3%?) is a SCRIPT?? But what you do -- what EVERYONE does -- and is promoted by trillion dollar empires is NOT the Script??? Do you even hear yourself?

You're delusional.

BTW, if you're practicing what EVERYONE practices, you're following a Script, whether it be tradition, culture, or what the media tells you. (Vegan couple kills baby!!)

I did my research.

And I practiced a variety of lifestyle diets for years.

To everyone else who in considering a vegan diet as a life change, a lifestyle, I wholeheartedly recommend it.

DON'T BELIEVE THEIR PROPAGANDA.

Do what works for you.

Obviously, not all people have the same genetics, so if it doesn't work for you, stop.

Move on.

I don't fall into the camp who believes one diet fits all. Never have.

And BTW, being vegan means plant-based, not Beyond Burgers, Gardien, Impossible Whoppers and processed vegan crap.

PS: I finally watched the documentary but it really didn't tell me anything I already didn't uncover in my own prior research. I also think that showing "outliers" to a vegan diet doesn't really help the cause. People can't relate to athletes and strongmen, they related to the average Joe. I was hoping there would be more of this. I also wasn't a big fan of Arnold showing up... but whatever.

PS2: And here's the real thing of note: This post will get very FEW likes. Why? Because people would rather be right while having me sick as a dog, rather than be wrong and having me rave about health. Imagine reporting that you feel the healthiest you've ever felt in your entire life, better at 50 than 25!? Great right? Perhaps worth a like? Nope, just say you're vegan. Freaking sad.
I think the problem most people here have with it is that veganism is counter-culture.

As with any counter-culture movement people will join who have absolutely no idea why they should join in the first place, they just do it because it’s different.

Obviously you’ve done the research, tested a variety of diets, and have come to your own conclusions that the vegan diet works best for you and your genetics.

The sad part is that 99% of people going vegan now do it to be different or ethical, not realizing the potential health risks involved. That’s when they get into trouble.

Meat vs Plants.....it’s all just food. Eat what you want, assess, and adjust. Just don’t eat CRAP. Go carnivore. Go vegan. Whatever YOU want cause at the end of the day, it’s your own blood bag you’re taking to the grave.

Personally I love Mexican food too much to go vegan :hilarious:
 

MJ DeMarco

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Thank you.. this thread was getting crazy.
Yes, and take note on WHY it was getting crazy. Was it the vegans offering a militant response? Or the meat eaters?

The sad part is that 99% of people going vegan now do it to be different or ethical, not realizing the potential health risks involved.
Sorry, but your 99% metric is asinine. People aren't going vegan because it's cool or counter-culture. I'm sure there are weak-minded folks who think of it like that, but I don't know any.

And you say "the potential health risks" as if it were a fact that the vegan diet is dangerous.

Pure fallacy and propaganda, again, put up by deeply vested interests that reside on both sides of the political aisle, including the meat lobby. I see they convinced you pretty well.

You know how many times I've heard someone say, "Gee, I fixed my diabetes by eating a diet rich in cheese, burgers, and milkshakes!" NEVER. But I hear it all the time when it comes to plant-based diets. (BTW, the SO is a nurse who works with chronically obese and diabetic patients, and also is vegan.)

But yea, I'll look forward to the next study that suggests milk is good for you, you know, the one put forth by the American Dairy Association.

This is why I refuse to argue with people about veganism because they state their arguments as if based on factual scientific data, when their facts are entirely centered around dogma, YouTube videos from agenda driven personalities, and the Meat Packing Lobby. (More doctors prefer Camels!)



That said, I'm not here to convince anyone to go vegan.

When I did so three years ago, I've largely kept the dietary move to myself.

If I wasn't asked, I didn't tell. Still, it is one the most pervasive scripts I've ever found in culture, more so than the "go to college" or "save a $100 a month and get rich" narratives.

I'm done talking about it.

While I won't preach my views to the forum, I'm also not going to stand idly by and allow ignorance and propaganda to pervade. My forum won't be used to promote veganism, but it certainly wont be used to perpetuate myths, dogma, and typical militant responses from triggered carnivores threatened by the shift.

Like religion and politics where facts don't matter and reason is tossed in favor of bias and tradition, the topic is incapable of a rational debate.

There's a reason why poliitcs and religion is not allowed on this forum. And now we can add plant-based topics, or its nasty trigger word, "veganism".

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