My progress - mobile apps dev business, online learning, etc.

[RJ the first]

How much revenue does 100 downloads a day translate to in a month?

I've hardly made anything on it. If you figure in costs like - legal fees, Apple Developer account, contractors to do things like graphics, etc. - I've lost money. It's kind of hard to swallow, but I tell myself it's a learning experience, and that the guys making the top money like Carter Thomas did not start making money until they had about 20 apps under their belt. I told myself I have to learn the market research and ASO part of the business, there's no way to learn that stuff if you don't release apps into the App Store and try things out for yourself. Noone's going to let you learn using their apps.

There is a lady in my 'mastermind' group who pulls in $20000 a month, she has 40 apps in the app store. Only half of those apps make any money at all - and the majority of that money is made by the highest grossing top 10-15 apps in her portfolio (one app that does $12000 a month). She has 20-30 apps that make $0 to a few hundred a month.

Also there is no ratio on how much number of download translates into revenue, because it would depend on your click through rate and average revenue per user. The days when I made the most money from ad networks were not the days where I had the most downloads.

But if we generalize and try to extrapolate using my current click through rate - what it boils down to is that 100 downloads a day for my App 1 would translate into roughly into $5 a day, or $150 a month. For me to consider this a successful app it would have to be pulling in at least ten times that much downloads, or $1500 at 1000 downloads a day.

For point of comparison - the top app in my niche is averaging about 1000+ downloads a day, and is making $4000 a month. This information is kind of sketchy because I'm not sure how accurate Apptopia is as far as revenue or download numbers. But if we are to take those numbers as true - this app is pulling in about 1000 downloads a day and has much higher revenue per user - meaning they spend longer time on the app, and click through ads more.

Should've never made the app if you weren't expecting it to do a lot of business. It was a big waste of time.

Well the way I work is - I never write or reskin an app just once - to make it worth my while I have to be able to reuse the code. App 2 was very quick and easy to put out - because it was basically the code for App 1 with different graphics, a new name, and a different database. I could reskin App 1 in a different ways using different themes, but I might just do it one more time because I'm sick of that code lol.

This was another experiment, and holiday apps can be pretty profitable. Right now there are a ton of Christmas and holiday apps that are making money consistently every year. Valentine's day too. And to get your app to rank in the top 10 for 'Christmas' or 'Valentine's day' keywords - you have to release it much earlier in the year.

I would be careful with App 4 since the Pokemon Go Company has been sending out cease and desist letters.

Are you doing some of the programming or is it all outsourced? If you were hiring people to do everything how much money would you have lost so far? How long would it take for App 1 to break even?

And yet I see tons of Pokemon apps on the app store! Minecraft apps too, etc. It would not be a big loss of time because App 4 would be a quick reskin of App 3 - with different theme and different graphics.

If I get a cease and desist I will just take it down. Like I said, I consider the first 5-10 apps just a learning experience, or just experiments. This would be my experiment to see how this type of app with a known 'trending' theme like Pokemon would perform, and what type of experience I'd have with it.

I'd say at this point I'm doing like 80% of the coding. The rest of the coding is template code that I hack on and change for my purposes. This situation is not ideal and does not scale if I eventually want to get to the point where I have 100+ apps in the app store. The reason I say '100+ apps in the app store' is - I find that most of the people who I study that are doing really good money have at least dozens if not more than 100 apps in the app store. It's only by releasing that many apps and trying a lot of things that you stumble onto the top 10 or 20 or so apps that will be making money for you.

But yeah, I can't spend all my time coding if I want to concentrate on market research and ASO, business development stuff. But at the moment I don't have much money coming in so I have to do it myself.

 

[RJ the first]

Here's my intro thread.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/software-dev-in-chicago.70118/

I'm a 40s software dev in Chicago. I've been working a slow lane job as a consultant, building enterprise applications for corporations. My main expertise is full stack development and architecture, but in my spare time for the past few years I've been working on mobile apps in my spare time for enjoyment.

This is my progress thread. My original idea was - to start a mobile app development business - developing my own app ideas and making money off them in the app store, and also hiring myself out as a contractor to create mobile apps for small businesses.

In the past month I created 3 mobile apps, about to post them to the store once the graphic designer gets back to me with icons.

Also in the past month, I've decided to expand my focus. I will also be exploring affiliate marketing, ecommerce sites, and creating online learning courses as ways to make extra money.

I love programming mobile apps. But my goal is financial freedom. I'll post my thoughts and progress here as I go on...

 

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[Scot]

I'm glad it wasnt that easy to talk me out of my business idea.

When it comes down to it.. who will you listen to a "business coach" or the market?

 

[RJ the first]

just wanted to say 'hi.' I have a custom software company that writes custom business software. App development is so far outside my wheelhouse.
That said, I think you're right about trying a few different things to see what you're most interested in.

I wonder if a niche app might be interesting. For example:

I recently needed to troubleshoot something on my car. I have a $20 device that connects to the OBD2 connector on my car. My phone can connect to this device via a Wifi hotspot built into the device. There are a few apps out there will connect to this "ELM" device. Most suck. The ones that don't are expensive at $10 or so. For a hobbiest, that's more than I wanted to spend.

I WOULD spend $1 or $2 for a month's access to that app, if it were well designed and easy to use. The ones that are that cheap or free are awful.

There's a way to validate this idea and estimate public interest before undertaking a lengthy and expensive development process. Create a landing page with a service like QuickMVP and use an Adwords campaign to drive users to it. The page should have a form to collect emails of interested users. If you get 200-300 emails per day or so it's a viable product.

 

[RJ the first]

Finished ASO course, 4 hours of keyword research, finished adding HeyZap with adMob SDK. Submitted app to the App Store.

 

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[lowtek]

check out alex berman's channel on YouTube. He's the marketing guy for experiment 27, a lead gen firm for SaaS companies.

Outbound cold emailing is a monster strategy to generate leads when you're boostrapping. He goes in depth on the details. How to find them, how to write the email, etc.

Great channel for new entrepreneurs.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAr7M4Pz-c1WCpIz3YAJQeQ?&ab_channel=AlexBerman

 

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[Scot]

Good, just don't let someone talk you out of what could be a profitable venture.

 

[RJ the first]

Still waiting on LLC paperwork to go through.
Taking an ASO and App Marketing online course.
Decided on a soft launch of my app in Canada - once LLC papers and DUNS number are available I will switch my personal Apple Developer account to my company name and do a full launch.

 

[RJ the first]

Hired two contractors to work on next four apps. Still waiting on status of my app approval from Apple. I received my confirmation that my LLC has been formed and my paperwork has gone through. I applied for a D-U-N-S number with Dun & Bradstreet (I need the D-U-N-S number to change my Apple Developer account from my own name to the company name).

 

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[RJ the first]

So ... just planning stuff out in my head.

4th quarter 2016 is our first quarter.
Goals were to establish the company legally and have 4-5 'freemium' apps in the app store. Like I wrote previously - this is mostly done. Apps have been written, and legal paperwork filed.
Secondary goals for 4th quarter 2016 are - to thoroughly learn ASO and marketing while launching this first set of 5 or so apps, to set me up for the future.

All of the people I admire who are killing it with monthly revenue of 40-50k or even upwards of half a million or more monthly revenue - they all have 100-200 apps in the store, most of which make money. It all adds up, as long as your ECPM is good and you make the right moves with marketing, ASO, and product development.

So 1st quarter, 2nd quarter, and 3rd quarter 2017 - is all about getting as many solid apps into the app store as possible. If at all possible, funding the development of these apps through this first set of apps I'm in the process of launching now. I want to have a minimum of 20-30 apps in the store by end of 3rd quarter 2017. I'm just thinking volume. I'd have to crank out 5 or so apps per quarter, which is about my current rate. By end of the first year I want to be focusing about 80% on games with high retention and ECPM.

Ideally by end of second year I want to be at around 100+ apps. So sometime in first or second year in business I have to scale up the rate at which I release apps. I think this will happen when I make enough from apps per month to allow me to quit my job. At this point I think the growth of the business will happen exponentially because I'll have all day to devote myself to it.

Modest goal by end of first year would be - I'm consistently making a couple grand or so a month.
Ambitious goal by the end of the first year would be - I'm able to quit my job.

Modest goal by end of second year would be - I make enough to allow me to quit my job.
Ambitious goal by the end of second year would be - I make enough to quit my job and also be able to live a baller lifestyle. Income of 30-60k a month.

If I can hit these goals, then goals for 3rd 4th and 5th year would be to grow this thing as much as I can, and be in the same league as Muoyo Okome, Anthony Hammond, and Tasmin Ahmed. Multi millionaires. If I can hit this goal - then the thing to do next is to focus on starting a new company to create totally original products with longer research and development cycles, like 'Color Pop Effects' - or, diversify into real estate, angel investing, or stocks. Ways to make money that require a large quantity of cash to get started, vs. the 'app game' which requires a large quantity of time.


I'm pretty good at pipe dreaming right? I still have to get this first set of apps to make money, or learn enough about ASO so that it gradually gets easier to make money as I produce more apps. I'm definitely dedicated to throwing myself into this and taking it all the way. I feel like this thing is already going to happen - because it's in my head already, and it's all I think about.

 

[RJ the first]

I went from 1455 in my category to 433 in my category! Best downloads day yet yesterday - improved by 10%. Still waiting on approval of latest revision. Just got new database back from contractor for another app. I got a new MacBook Pro yesterday and am setting it up with XCode and Unity.

 

[Andy Black]

I don't know anything about app development, or app marketing or sales.

From skimming this thread I understand you're releasing apps quickly to get better at creating them, and to learn marketing and ASO?



You mention someone is pulling decent MRR with 40 apps in the App Store.

Are all her apps related to each other?

Is she somehow getting the contact details of people who download her apps so she can notify them of a new app when it is released?

If she is building some sort of list/audience then I can really see how releasing more and more apps can help grow her monthly downloads. Otherwise, did she release 40 apps looking for lightning strikes and the law of averages mean she found a few?



Some things to consider:

You're experimenting with catching trends.

Following trends means you're competing in an overcrowded App Store against businesses who specialise in this.

What's your unfair advantage over them?

Do you know a vertical / app genre better than them?

Do you know that market better than them?

I get that you're "learning", but it also smacks a little of chasing money and less of chasing needs.


What would happen if your unfair advantage was the people you already knew?

Can you make this higher friction and engage the market more rather than see this as an exercise in selling electrons?

Can you go B2B and help a local business save money or make money? (With one eye on scaling to all businesses in that vertical?)

Would this make more money per app download than Pokemon apps (leading question)?



R + R = Profit. (Repeat business plus Referrals).

How will you get Repeat business?

How will you get Referrals?



Control?

Can you get banned from the App Store?

What happens when the App Store ranking algorithm changes (or new competing apps appear) and you drop ranking and downloads dry up?

Can you contact buyers of your previous apps?



EDIT: A trivial step to improving your marketing, sales, and business mindset is something as simple as hitting the Like button more. People are following and commenting because your taking lots of action (and big kudos for that btw). That's an audience you're building right there. Learn to engage your audience.

 

[RJ the first]

I did some work yesterday on the mobile apps. I sent the app icon back to the graphic designer for revision. I checked in the 'In app purchases' code. We are realistically less than a week from going live. After a lot of research over the past week, I don't have a lot of hope that they will make money. I basically did these apps with no market research, and I told myself it would just be a 'portfolio building' and 'learning' experience.

Last week I spent an afternoon talking to a well known youtube vlogger and 'business coach'. He advised me that the apps were a tough game to get into - the competition is fierce, and dominated by players with big profits. It's especially tough for someone like me with no advertising knowledge. He advised me that since I'm a software architect by trade, I could leverage my existing technical info to create courses on Udemy. He told me that these were the easiest way to make money for someone like me, they were in fact 20 times easier than making apps.

Yesterday I took an online course on affiliate marketing. It sounds interesting. I'm still thinking about a 'plan'. I'm still wondering - I may be stuck on the idea of mobile apps because I'm a software dev and like coding in Swift and I like building things, not because it is necessarily a good plan to fulfill people's needs or to get to financial freedom.

 

[RJ the first]

I'm glad it wasnt that easy to talk me out of my business idea.

When it comes down to it.. who will you listen to a "business coach" or the market?

I think I am going to have to experiment with different business ideas and maybe even pursue a couple at the same time. I think at some point I will know when to focus on something exclusively.

Right now I want to explore building my apps business and also creating online technology courses. Both are in line with my core skill set and will make me more valuable at my day job even if I struggle initially.

 

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[Chazmania]

I agree with Scot. You have a skill set that at least gets you in the game, with a 'puncher's chance' of having success. There's always going to be bigger fish in the sea but I say keep going anyway.

 

[RJ the first]

Read some books, checked in some code, waiting on LLC paperwork. Got icons back from designer and checked them in. Subscribed to apptopia.

In App Empire he discourages founders from also being programmers. I can see why - you are wearing two hats. And it will be hard to scale the way you want to unless you bring in more people to code. Right now there's not much money so I have to do it myself.

 

[hatzil]

Still waiting on LLC paperwork to go through.
Taking an ASO and App Marketing online course.
Decided on a soft launch of my app in Canada - once LLC papers and DUNS number are available I will switch my personal Apple Developer account to my company name and do a full launch.

Hey RJ I'm starting an app business aswell(outsourcing), I want to recommend these books:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EW78YV4/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20
it may help you(or others) with marketing stuff.
as well as https://www.amazon.com/Fake-Make-How-Prototype-Hours-ebook/dp/B00X8U2BCY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475786409&sr=8-1&keywords=fake it make it - YOU DON'T need to read the entire book. just prototyping with powerpoint is very easy & fast method for prototyping if it fits you.
the first book is a book recommended by people on this forum.

for all the legal purposes, I found this book ( this is an overview ). https://www.amazon.com/Business-Law-Basics-Entrepreneurs-Businesses-ebook/dp/B01F5Y4BLO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475786673&sr=8-1&keywords=james hart

I like to hear from you especially on all the legal stuff since i'm struggling to protect myself,anyway keep updating man!

 

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[hatzil]

Hey hatzil. How is your business going? How many apps do you have? I have about 3-4 ready to be launched but am waiting on legal stuff right now.

Other questions:
-what category are your apps in? Games? I am working on lifestyle apps for positive thinking.
-have you made money yet on apps?
-do you have any suggestions for ad network SDKS? I'm just using adMob right now but plan to use HeyZap as mediation framework and add several other ad networks when I do a full launch (iAd, Chartboost, adColony etc.)
-do you have suggestions for Analytics SDKs - I'm thinking about using Flurry.
-do you go to Upwork for outsourcing? I find it is hit or miss there, I had trouble when I hired a designer to make some UI enhancements
-what have you been doing for marketing that has been effective for you? I'm not really sure how I can market my lifestyle apps, I was thinking Facebook ads first

-what do you think of the chances of an independent mobile app company like yours or mine making it with all the competition in today's App Store? It seems daunting to me, but I've been searching Apptopia and there are quite a few independent developers clearing upwards of $30k a month, some as high as $1m a month for lifestyle apps like 'the holy Bible app' or 'health and nutrition tips'.

I'm currently new to this business, and working on 1 app. before I continue- I need to deal with few legal stuff.
-my app is a niche app, from a field I know for 2 years. I have validated my idea using a prototype I gave to people in this field and tracked their reaction. move than that- this is something i'm planning to use myself. I think games is a risky business, since it's hard to validate it.
-I plan to make money on my app right from the 2 version. ( version 1 is used for beta testers). While this goes on, I'm tracking my users with analytics for 2 reasons:
* To validate my idea, watch what features they want more, what they hate,etc
*Plan B: if i'm running out of cash, I will be in a powerful position to attract investors(I have the statistics, and the development costs is low compared to the growth and value potential)

-I currently not planning on putting ads on my first version, but looking out for it, will love to learn from you.
- They analytics I want to use is something a friends suggested, it is called: Mixpanel
-I want to go to upwork but have issues with my paypal, some how they have technical issue with my paypal. anyway- I tried dribbble.com to find designer and got good offer for 75$/screen, but I'm confused on all the legal stuff since you pay the designer outside of the site. from what I understand by the law the designers work is his work and I need some kind of contract that proves I bought the rights for this work. I think Upwork deal with all these stuff so I don't have to worry about it.
- I believe in organic growth as much as possible(I have low budget,too). before you spend any cash on advertising, who is your audience? are they using any thing where you can reach them with free exposure?- I'm planning on reaching them on forums,youtube reviews,bloggers. also- able them to invite their friends to use the app, etc. ( I suggest reading apprenuer ).
There is also the SEO side- there are ways to make your app get more exposure, if you just use the right keywords, title, author name, get good reviews, etc.
if you're launching few apps, you can market each other from your apps.
make ways for your audience to reach you- fb,instagram,twitter,etc.
get user base- if users can register on your app, this worth a lot.
-well,I think apps are pure fastlane(In terms of growth potential,passive income,etc). BUT- i'm a bit pessimist. there are tons of apps nobody wants/uses and overall there are tons of ways to fail. In my opinion, you need to validate your app as soon as possible, know your audience ( what are they using currently? ),know your competitors, and have a good business plan(how are you planning to profit?), etc.
So I think this is very important to make a good plan/research before you execute.
What helped me the most is documenting my entire process.

 

[RJ the first]

I'm currently new to this business, and working on 1 app. before I continue- I need to deal with few legal stuff.
-my app is a niche app, from a field I know for 2 years. I have validated my idea using a prototype I gave to people in this field and tracked their reaction. move than that- this is something i'm planning to use myself. I think games is a risky business, since it's hard to validate it.
-I plan to make money on my app right from the 2 version. ( version 1 is used for beta testers). While this goes on, I'm tracking my users with analytics for 2 reasons:
* To validate my idea, watch what features they want more, what they hate,etc
*Plan B: if i'm running out of cash, I will be in a powerful position to attract investors(I have the statistics, and the development costs is low compared to the growth and value potential)

-I currently not planning on putting ads on my first version, but looking out for it, will love to learn from you.
- They analytics I want to use is something a friends suggested, it is called: Mixpanel
-I want to go to upwork but have issues with my paypal, some how they have technical issue with my paypal. anyway- I tried dribbble.com to find designer and got good offer for 75$/screen, but I'm confused on all the legal stuff since you pay the designer outside of the site. from what I understand by the law the designers work is his work and I need some kind of contract that proves I bought the rights for this work. I think Upwork deal with all these stuff so I don't have to worry about it.
- I believe in organic growth as much as possible(I have low budget,too). before you spend any cash on advertising, who is your audience? are they using any thing where you can reach them with free exposure?- I'm planning on reaching them on forums,youtube reviews,bloggers. also- able them to invite their friends to use the app, etc. ( I suggest reading apprenuer ).
There is also the SEO side- there are ways to make your app get more exposure, if you just use the right keywords, title, author name, get good reviews, etc.
if you're launching few apps, you can market each other from your apps.
make ways for your audience to reach you- fb,instagram,twitter,etc.
get user base- if users can register on your app, this worth a lot.
-well,I think apps are pure fastlane(In terms of growth potential,passive income,etc). BUT- i'm a bit pessimist. there are tons of apps nobody wants/uses and overall there are tons of ways to fail. In my opinion, you need to validate your app as soon as possible, know your audience ( what are they using currently? ),know your competitors, and have a good business plan(how are you planning to profit?), etc.
So I think this is very important to make a good plan/research before you execute.
What helped me the most is documenting my entire process.

Thanks hatzil. I will definitely read Appreneur. And I may have to check out dribble because I don't think my UI is that great right now. I think ideal would be to find a designer on dribble that's also on Upwork.

How did you go about validating app ideas? Did you do something like a landing page with QuickMVP? I have to start thinking about ideas for next set of apps eventually and was thinking of doing something like that.

I agree about the ASO. I'm taking a course right now so I can do that stuff myself. I mean there's not much to know about keywords and writing description and coming up with a title - you just have to be good at it, and know what works. It's kind of an art.

Do you know of any other forum that is just for app business guys like you and me? Not 'coding' forums per se but forums for buys trying to build businesses.

Please keep in touch on this, it's great to talk to people doing the same thing.

 

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[Jon L]

just wanted to say 'hi.' I have a custom software company that writes custom business software. App development is so far outside my wheelhouse.
That said, I think you're right about trying a few different things to see what you're most interested in.

I wonder if a niche app might be interesting. For example:

I recently needed to troubleshoot something on my car. I have a $20 device that connects to the OBD2 connector on my car. My phone can connect to this device via a Wifi hotspot built into the device. There are a few apps out there will connect to this "ELM" device. Most suck. The ones that don't are expensive at $10 or so. For a hobbiest, that's more than I wanted to spend.

I WOULD spend $1 or $2 for a month's access to that app, if it were well designed and easy to use. The ones that are that cheap or free are awful.

 

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[RJ the first]

My 4th Quarter Goals 2016 are:



4th Quarter Goals

1. 4-5 apps in the App Store
2. Establish company legally

• A. File LLC paperwork
• B. Apply for DUNS number
• C. Change Apple Developer account to change name to company name

I realized that I have already basically hit these goals.


My first app is up for submission. I basically have 3 more apps ‘in the can’ right now, that would be ready for submission with less than a days work. I am holding off on submitting the other 3-4 apps right now because:

-I’m waiting on DUNS number to come in so I can change the Apple Developer account to my company name
-I want to have a few weeks of tweaking ASO, keywords, and marketing strategy with the first app before submitting the rest of the apps.
-But this is all ‘process’. The coding of the first series of 5-6 apps is basically done.


I have already spent the money and gotten the LLC paperwork back from the state. We are now a legal entity. There are some items that I still have to do:

-Waiting for DUNS number
-Starting a company checking account and applying for company credit cards
-But this is all ‘process’ - the work here is done and these remaining items can be taken cared of in less than a day or with a few emails.

Other things that I could be doing for 4th Quarter 2016 if I have time: Start coming up with Udemy courses and submit them to make extra income and explore e-learning as a fast lane opportunity. But right now I am really focused on getting this mobile app company off the ground.

 

[eTox]

So my current problem, and questions...

Now that we have apps in the App Store, I want
to also open up a business checking account and a business credit card.

The problem is no money has come in yet. And I have been bankrolling whatever expenses we've had so far, which are not that much

-$100 Apple developer membership
-$1000 to file LLC status
-$300 on outsourcing some research work

How do I attribute the $1400 I've already spent out of my own bank account to the business so i can write it off as business expenses?

How do I open up a bank account without any money coming in from the business? I'd like to avoid using my own money since I have already registered the company and that's what it's for.

How do I apply for a business credit card without money coming in from the business? I may see some start to trickle in now that we're in the App Store but honestly my only expectation from the first few apps is that I get a chance to practice App Store optimization on them. Again I'd like to avoid continuing to use my own money to fund the business and I'd like to buy things on credit to help the business along like - hiring a graphic designer for a game I'm reskinning, or buying an iPad to do tablet testing on.

I'd also like to start writing off expenses like my internet bill, computer supplies, software licenses etc. to the business since that's what it's there for. Again I'd hate to keep pumping money into the business if I can avoid it.

Not sure if I can do any of the above without using my own money until money starts coming in from the business.

You remind me of myself almost a year ago. God, time flies.

What about marketing? How are you going to bring in the app to your users?

 

[RJ the first]

I'm glad it wasnt that easy to talk me out of my business idea.

When it comes down to it.. who will you listen to a "business coach" or the market?

Scot - I forgot to mention this. Make what you want of it - but the guy who advised me not to go into mobile apps because it is too hard to make money these days due to competition - is the guy who wrote this book

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N14RSNY/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

 

[RJ the first]

Submitted updated version of app with bugfixes and Fabric SDK.

 

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[RJ the first]

Submit a new version of the app - fix for in app purchase bug, also redid my monetization. Removed mediation and ad network sdks that were showing game ads.

 

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[RJ the first]

Great progress @RJ the first, keep going mate it's great to see how fast you're moving

Thanks, I appreciate it. Tbh most of this 'activity' is pure desperation! . Once I realized that I can't work for other people anymore and have to put myself in a position where I'm working for myself ASAP!

So I've been working around the clock. Right now, I am just learning. I feel like I am not expecting much monetarily out of this first set of 4-5 apps. I just have to learn marketing and ASO - and you can't do that unless you have a bunch of apps already in the App Store.

My first app really took a nosedive in downloads over the weekend. I'm not sure if that's just the pattern in sales over the weekend or if the latest change in keywords caused it. I guess that's part of the learning process...

 

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[beatgoezon]

Thanks, I appreciate it. Tbh most of this 'activity' is pure desperation! . Once I realized that I can't work for other people anymore and have to put myself in a position where I'm working for myself ASAP!

So I've been working around the clock. Right now, I am just learning. I feel like I am not expecting much monetarily out of this first set of 4-5 apps. I just have to learn marketing and ASO - and you can't do that unless you have a bunch of apps already in the App Store.

My first app really took a nosedive in downloads over the weekend. I'm not sure if that's just the pattern over in sales over the weekend or if the latest change in keywords caused it. I guess that's part of the learning process...

That's expected mate, keep experimenting with your first 5-6 apps. You'll see patterns and get better at this as it goes

 

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[RJ the first]

Having problems. App 1 was up to 100+ downloads a day, and growing fast. Then I made a change to keywords and fell out of rank for some important long tail keywords - and downloads fell - they're now only about 20-30 a day for App 1. I changed the keywords back with my last update - it only helped a little.

App 2 has never picked up. But it is a special occasions app for Valentine's day, so I wasn't expecting it to do a lot of business, maybe around Valentines Day it will pick up.

I told myself anyway that I was not expecting the first 5 or so apps to make money, I am doing them to learn about stuff like product development, marketing and ASO. After App 5 I hope business will pick up. But App 3 has potential to make money - it is a 'photo stickers' app in a popular kids niche that doesn't have much competition. App 4, the one I'm working on now, is a Pokemon app - so it may make money since the market is there. App 5 is a game I'm reskinning - still waiting for the graphics for that one...

 

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[RJ the first]

My App 3 is live on the App Store for one day. For this app I wanted to experiment with a Facebook Ads campaign for mobile to see if I can drive downloads to generate some organic growth. I started a 7 day campaign at 40$ a day for the age range of 13-40 worldwide. This app should probably be for a lower age range but 13's as low as I can go on FB ads. I just wanted to see if FB ads was worth the investment.

 

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[RJ the first]

Hi Andy!

>From skimming this thread I understand you're releasing apps quickly to get better at creating them, and to learn marketing and ASO?

Yes. For the first quarter of my business's existence, I am not really concentrating on profits. My focus is taking care of legal paperwork to establish the LLC. I am focusing on streamlining my development process, using my own programming skills and any contractors I use to do additional programming or graphic design work, so that in the future I can turn over apps quickly. This is key because I already know that - the people who are really making money in the app store typically have dozens or hundreds of apps in the app store - I have observed that the majority of their money comes from the top 25% or a third of their apps, so it's a matter of releasing a lot of apps to establish the small subset of apps that really make money for you.

>What's your unfair advantage over them?

I would say - most of these app store 'speculators' are not programmers. They typically pay contractors thousands of dollars to create their apps for them. I would estimate the average cost to pay a contractor to create an app from scratch for you including configuration of ad network sdks, app analytics and notification sdks, the actual release and testing of the app etc. - would cost between $1000-$5000 depending on the app.

My advantage is, I myself am a good programmer and can take care of all of these things myself for free. Also, my intellect. I am not a marketing or business guru - but I am a very smart guy, and have been taking many business courses and reading books and blogs. Once I have these skills down, I don't have to rely on anyone for this.

>Do you know a vertical / app genre better than them?

I'm focusing on games, and photo apps with social sharing. I'm not an 'expert' on this stuff, I have to work a full time job so I'm not someone who spends 40 hours a week studying the marketing around these types of apps.

>I get that you're "learning", but it also smacks a little of chasing money and less of chasing needs.

What is the 'need' around games and funny photo apps with social sharing? Relieving boredom for games, and having fun and sharing funny pictures with your friend for photo apps. These needs are by nature very trend-based. I hear what you are saying though - this is definitely the aspect of my business that I need to really focus on if I am to really make money with this going forward.


>Can you go B2B and help a local business save money or make money? (With one eye on scaling to all businesses in that vertical?) . Would this make more money per app download than Pokemon apps (leading question)?

I am not sure - there are people with Pokemon and Minecraft apps that get through the app review process - which is based on luck. It all depends on who reviews your app frankly. If my Pokemon app got through, it might be making money by now. It was worth a shot, because I already had the code and could turn this app over in only a few days for no money.

But - I hear you and I appreciate you are making a very good suggestion. For what it's worth, I was contacted by an entrepreneur recently to partner on a sports betting app. I am considering that. I also get that in addition to chasing trends, I could make money as a freelance programmer who creates e-commerce apps for local businesses. So far I have not pursued this track - my thinking around this is, I am interested in 'fast lane', creating apps for 50/hour for a local business is not fast lane vs. creating an original app that could potentially bring in $10000 a month. The people in this business I admire the most are those with an original app portfolio of hundreds of apps, with the top 25% or so of their app portfolio pulling in tens or hundreds of thousands a month in revenue.

I also appreciate what you suggest could potentially be a way to make money right now while I am developing my original apps. This is valid, and I will definitely give some thought to it. I have observed on Upwork that the people who are really making money as freelance programmers also have pretty huge app portfolios they use to solicit business. I think I am almost at the point where my own app portfolio is impressive enough where I could do this myself.

>Can you get banned from the App Store?

Yes I've heard of it. I would probably not be banned for trying to submit a Pokemon app - the people I've heard of being banned have used illegal services that use 'bots' to fake downloads and post fake reviews for your apps to game the app rating system.


>What happens when the App Store ranking algorithm changes (or new competing apps appear) and you drop ranking and downloads dry up?

Yes the algorithm always changes, but what I observe is if your app has been a top app in its genre for some time, that your search ranking is almost impervious to these changes due to its historical data.

>Can you contact buyers of your previous apps?

Only if they contact you through your 'developer contact' link. Or maybe if they contact you through Facebook. The best way to study user feedback is to do 'review mining' through a service like App Annie to get useful information like what features users want the most. Or through using an analytics SDK like Flurry to gather metrics around user engagement.

 

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