MorningRod - What do you think about my invention?

MoneyHacker · Sep 2, 2019

I really love the product but the price is definitely too high unless you mass produce. I only can think of one solution for this is to sell in bundles to a family, like 3 curtains using 1 monitor (i mean the wall plug) to reduce the cost first and then go for mass production. I don't know the market but this price is maybe considered high with households but reasonable for some hotels or commercial real estate i guess.

Vadim26 · Sep 2, 2019

Pretty cool, I clicked on the thread , because of the tittle.

Are you a mechanical engineer yourself?
And how long did it take you to make it?

Impressive to say the least.

Quick ideas: looks like one of the projects for Kickstarter, so maybe try to get funding from there? It would do well I think.

The less custom parts you have (3D printing) , and more standardized manufacturing is (injection molding) - the cheaper production will be.

neoswarm · Sep 2, 2019

love the idea. Could see myself as a customer "one day"....being honest where I'd actually spend the money at this point (i work remote and get up whenever i pretty much want).

my first thought of Morning Rod is you're selling a feature....

sure morning rod is what it actually is....but what about what you're selling..a benefit....how about something a bit more emotional??

MorningRise.com
MorningAwake.com
MorningLife.com

just my 2 cents and change!

Mike

Jon L · Sep 2, 2019

I like this a lot. Which items make up the bulk of the cost on this? The motors seem expensive. Why two of them? A pulley system could make one of them go away. Also, does the motor need to be as controllable as it is?

Real Deal Denver · Sep 2, 2019

FAIL - you didn't research the market. These have been around for a very long time. I had a friend that installed them as a business 5 years ago.

FAIL - Bad design. Could you place these close to a window and make the solar powered? Could you design it with one motor? Could you use stock materials in place of 3-D printing parts?

FAIL - You don't patent something that is easy to reverse engineer and redesign in dozens of different variations.

This is why the marketing dept leads all other depts. Especially engineering. If the marketing gets a green light - everything else is just details.

Look below - even WalMart is in on this game.

danielfrenkel · Sep 2, 2019

Vadim26 said:
Pretty cool, I clicked on the thread , because of the tittle.

Are you a mechanical engineer yourself?
And how long did it take you to make it?

Impressive to say the least.

Quick ideas: looks like one of the projects for Kickstarter, so maybe try to get funding from there? It would do well I think.

The less custom parts you have (3D printing) , and more standardized manufacturing is (injection molding) - the cheaper production will be.

Haha, I don't know if the name is worth keeping. Seem to be very divisive here. What are your thoughts?

I'm not an engineer, but learn quick. It took about 1.5 years to really learn everything about designing an IoT device. But it's been fun and it's great to have a project in mind when trying to learn something. My main product is actually a sliding glass door opener when I'll share later. This was just easier to learn and build to start out.

But now I can do really fast 3D design via Fusion 360, PCB Design via Eagle, Embedded coding with C (Arduino is a great thing to learn), as well as venture off into designing web apps.

If you have an electronics idea, message me and I'll point you in the right direction.

And I keep thinking about Kickstarter as well, but need to come up with a good price point first and grow a mailing list, which this thread is motivating me to do. Thanks for your reply

Scot · Sep 2, 2019

@danielfrenkel youve obviously got a mind for invention and the ability to prototype well.

But between Upscale and Morning Rod, it’s obvious you need to learn more about overseas manufacturing. Your price estimates for both inventions are way too inflated and out of the price range for the majority of consumers.

Honestly, you’d probably be better off licensing this to one of those “Seen on TV” marketing firms. You obviously can create and prototype pretty damn well, why not focus on that and roll in the royalties?

danielfrenkel · Sep 2, 2019

Scot said:
@danielfrenkel youve obviously got a mind for invention and the ability to prototype well.

But between Upscale and Morning Rod, it’s obvious you need to learn more about overseas manufacturing. Your price estimates for both inventions are way too inflated and out of the price range for the majority of consumers.

Honestly, you’d probably be better off licensing this to one of those “Seen on TV” marketing firms. You obviously can create and prototype pretty damn well, why not focus on that and roll in the royalties?

Where do you suggest I begin? I do know I'm lacking is some business knowledge but don't have a mentor anyone I can really turn to learn more. Any suggestions?

reedracer · Sep 2, 2019

All the above. Instead of a name about what it is, make it about the benefits. Both this and the Upscale are for a more affluent market, so punny names may not appeal.
Hello Sunshine
Daybreak
etc.

I wanted to invent these 30 years ago so I could close the curtains on the 'hot' side of the house and open the shaded side automatically as part of a connected home to save energy. That is another use for these (open sourced software would make that happen anyhow, eventually)

danielfrenkel · Sep 2, 2019

Scot said:
@danielfrenkel youve obviously got a mind for invention and the ability to prototype well.

But between Upscale and Morning Rod, it’s obvious you need to learn more about overseas manufacturing. Your price estimates for both inventions are way too inflated and out of the price range for the majority of consumers.

Honestly, you’d probably be better off licensing this to one of those “Seen on TV” marketing firms. You obviously can create and prototype pretty damn well, why not focus on that and roll in the royalties?

And it currently costs $105 to make. This is buying parts in really small amounts. It could be about $50 or less if mass-produced. But getting there is a whole different game

danielfrenkel · Sep 2, 2019

Regarding the price, this blinds conversion kit seems to be selling ok for $249, so my initial $199 doesn't seem so crazy

AXIS Gear - Smart Blinds For Your Smart Home - DIY Home Automation - Powered by ZigBee + Bluetooth - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Brewmacker · Sep 2, 2019

Hi Daniel,

I think it wonderful that you are taking action and it is impressive what you have done so far.

It seems/appears like your set up at the moment:

is pretty bulky,
will needs to replace my current rails,
will maybe require modification to my existing curtains,
would require drilling into walls and
if there is no wall socket then maybe electrical wiring is needed from a local junction box.

Your product is also aimed for summer conditions, but in a month or two it will be back to getting up in the dark for the next 7 months (at least here in north Europe)

Personally, I use two pretty powerful lights/lamps aimed directly at my head and connected to a wall socket timer. Total cost €5 and hint: works really very well in summer but also really well in winter too when it is dark outside

I have seen this concept before, like 5 minutes ago right next to my head, at my work desk, which closes the blinds when direct sunlight is detected. It is indeed not a new concept. The question is, how to make you stand out from the crowd.

I know this is your baby so I would like to help you with some suggestions to re-focus your USP:

Firstly, app/alexa driven is a good touch - as long as it is not costing a fortune (consider selling that as an optional add-on module).

Have you considered :

a one size fits all (or 80%) of curtain set ups? Plug and Play.
a passive set up (i.e. spring-loaded opening, with timer in combination with magnets or mechanical catch to keep curtains in closed (OR NOT OPEN) position)?
a battery powered device? If the window is on the sunny side the battery can be charged via a small solar panel sitting in the window.
(as a wake up call device) the curtains do not need to be opened all the way but just enough to break the "black out spell"?
setting your alarm by your window so you can open the curtains, hit snooze and go back to bed

I wish you luck with your endeavor and look forward to hearing how your do moving forward.

PizzaOnTheRoof · Sep 2, 2019

Scot said:
@danielfrenkel youve obviously got a mind for invention and the ability to prototype well.

But between Upscale and Morning Rod, it’s obvious you need to learn more about overseas manufacturing. Your price estimates for both inventions are way too inflated and out of the price range for the majority of consumers.

Honestly, you’d probably be better off licensing this to one of those “Seen on TV” marketing firms. You obviously can create and prototype pretty damn well, why not focus on that and roll in the royalties?

I would 100% patent it and hand it off to a bigger more capable company in exchange for royalties.

SEBASTlAN · Sep 2, 2019

The name's not as bad as Morning Head

danielfrenkel · Sep 2, 2019

I'm going to focus on building a solid email list of interested buyers and testing things out with different landing pages, then launching a Kickstarter if things look good. The name of the product is easy to change and I'll test out some alternatives as well

glascodash8 · Sep 3, 2019

I would absolutely buy this

Rearden · Sep 3, 2019

I would really look at licensing it. That's how I take my product ideas to market. You don't need a full patent to get a deal. Really you have done enough development to get a deal (most of the time). If you wanted to go the licensing route let me know and I can help. D

garyfritz · Sep 3, 2019

I would LOVE a product like this. I have a large east-facing window in my bedroom that looks out over a lake. Beautiful view to wake up to, but not at 4:30am. I don't see the view all summer long because I don't want to hassle with opening/closing the shades every day.

BUT I wouldn't buy your product. The kind of curtains you used let in WAAAYY too much light. Too much space between the wall and the curtain rod. I use cellular blinds that recess back into the windowframe so it *totally* blocks the light.

danielfrenkel · Sep 3, 2019

ChrisV said:
I honestly didnt even notice until later when I saw it on the list. I mean if you're gonna do this then go all out and market it as a "bedroom privacy time system" cuz right now the name doesn't match the product. Even then I still think it's risky.

Yea.

Btw OP, what did you use to do that mock-up?

Fusion 360 to create the mockup. It's powerful and free for small users. But it's actually a rendering of the actual files used to 3D print everything

FastNAwesome · Sep 3, 2019

danielfrenkel said:
So I built a curtain rod that works with my existing off-the-shelf curtains that automatically opens and closes the curtains for me.

I LOVE IT. As in - would buy.

I love how in some rural places you can sleep in a real, nice darkness, and then be waken up by the morning sun.

And I really dislike that I only get to pick one in my current apartment.

Where I live, your desired price is close to minimal wage, per window. Still, would buy, and consider it a permanent improvement to my quality of life. But would expect it to be of solid quality, reliable and built to last. And to still be able to use the curtain normally not extra carefully.

I assume at certain scale you would be able to drive the production price down?

Anyway, much luck to you, hope it becomes a success!

biophase · Sep 3, 2019

danielfrenkel said:
That's the problem, it gets attention when I mention it, so from a marketing standpoint it stands out from the crowd. 50% people tell me to change it, 50% tell me to keep it. Idk...

It's a name that you like now because people may remember, but in 2 years you will wish you choose a different name.

biophase · Sep 3, 2019

danielfrenkel said:
Regarding the price, this blinds conversion kit seems to be selling ok for $249, so my initial $199 doesn't seem so crazy

AXIS Gear - Smart Blinds For Your Smart Home - DIY Home Automation - Powered by ZigBee + Bluetooth - - Amazon.com

AXIS Gear - Smart Blinds For Your Smart Home - DIY Home Automation - Powered by ZigBee + Bluetooth - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Also run by someone on this forum.

danielfrenkel · Sep 3, 2019

biophase said:
Also run by someone on this forum.

Know who it is?

Raitis · Sep 4, 2019

I guess there should be demand for this just as there is demand for the wake-up lights that fade in gradually.

Your market size is a bit skewed to the places/seasons where it's light outside when you wake up.

The name made me smile though.

Brewmacker · Sep 4, 2019

biophase said:
Also run by someone on this forum.

This is a really nice example and is very much something I would consider buying if I had this problem! If we go back to the check list from my previous post:

Brewmacker said:
Hi Daniel,

I think it wonderful that you are taking action and it is impressive what you have done so far.

It seems/appears like your set up at the moment:

is pretty bulky,

will needs to replace my current rails,

will maybe require modification to my existing curtains,

would require drilling into walls and

if there is no wall socket then maybe electrical wiring is needed from a local junction box.

Your product is also aimed for summer conditions, but in a month or two it will be back to getting up in the dark for the next 7 months (at least here in north Europe)

Personally, I use two pretty powerful lights/lamps aimed directly at my head and connected to a wall socket timer. Total cost €5 and hint: works really very well in summer but also really well in winter too when it is dark outside

I have seen this concept before, like 5 minutes ago right next to my head, at my work desk, which closes the blinds when direct sunlight is detected. It is indeed not a new concept. The question is, how to make you stand out from the crowd.

I know this is your baby so I would like to help you with some suggestions to re-focus your USP:

Firstly, app/alexa driven is a good touch - as long as it is not costing a fortune (consider selling that as an optional add-on module).

Have you considered :

a one size fits all (or 80%) of curtain set ups? Plug and Play.

a passive set up (i.e. spring-loaded opening, with timer in combination with magnets or mechanical catch to keep curtains in closed (OR NOT OPEN) position)?

a battery powered device? If the window is on the sunny side the battery can be charged via a small solar panel sitting in the window.

(as a wake up call device) the curtains do not need to be opened all the way but just enough to break the "black out spell"?

setting your alarm by your window so you can open the curtains, hit snooze and go back to bed

I wish you luck with your endeavor and look forward to hearing how your do moving forward.

is it pretty bulky? Nope
will needs to replace my current rails? Nope
will maybe require modification to my existing curtains? Nope
would require drilling into walls? Not with adhesive, Nope
if there is no wall socket then maybe electrical wiring is needed from a local junction box? Possibly, but it operates with rechargeable battery driven with a solar powered option

It may not fit every kind of curtain, but would very much suit my needs meets my expectations (neglecting any reliability/manufacturing factors).

Also if you look at the related products on the amazon page you are entering a pretty well filled market. Do you actually have a potentially patentable idea? Not that it matters much anymore except for ticking a box for potential investors.

I know you are getting a lot of positive feedback here @danielfrenkel and I do not mean to rain/shit on your parade, or to undermine the advice of others. Nor am I in anyway an "automatic curtain opening" product expert so take my advice with a pinch of salt.

Have you found, or maybe need to adapt, and sell/shout your USP to stand out from the crowd with this product.?

You maybe need to ask yourself (which is the hardest thing to do btw) is this a stepping stone to a fastlane business or a learning process for when a fastlane idea comes along? And if yes, is the energy and money that you will invest worth it? Or is there something better you could invest in that would yield better results?

Still think its great and interesting what you are doing (process wise) and will continue to keep an eye out for your product.

B

NCNY · Sep 4, 2019

Sell the experience instead of the item

"Imagine waking up by the warmth of natural sunlight instead of your annoying alarm clock"...

amp0193 · Sep 4, 2019

Vairavan said:
Sorry, bro. It's already available on the market:

Almost every product idea you can come up with is already on the market.

If it’s not then it’s likely that there is no market.

It doesn’t matter if you do the same thing as someone else, but you have to have value skew and do something better in some way.

danielfrenkel · Sep 8, 2019

I found a few great companies that this would fit with and will try to license it. Got this book and it's been great to far. Despite the title, it contains a ton of info on licensing. He also has a different but similar book on it.

Amazon.com

HOWEVER! I need to change the name, as highlighted in this thread

Any ideas?

ChrisV · Sep 8, 2019

danielfrenkel said:
Any ideas?

BlackIt, LightsOut, NightBlock, BlaqOut, OurTime, ShadowRod.

MoonBeam

Search 'curtains' on Amazon and see if you can come up with any inspiration.

ChrisV · Sep 8, 2019

NCNY said:
Sell the experience instead of the item

"Imagine waking up by the warmth of natural sunlight instead of your annoying alarm clock"...

NaturalWake, MorningGlow, EasyWake, MorningLight.

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