MorningRod - What do you think about my invention?

[Real Deal Denver]

I found a few great companies that this would fit with and will try to license it. Got this book and it's been great to far. Despite the title, it contains a ton of info on licensing. He also has a different but similar book on it.

Amazon.com

HOWEVER! I need to change the name, as highlighted in this thread

Any ideas?

THANK YOU Daniel!

Got the book. BONUS - also subscribed to his YouTube channel; InventRightTV.

What a resource! My lucky day today. I've found two unbelievable resources that will keep me immersed exactly where I need/want to be.

I have a product that is close to launch, but I've been holding back because I just don't feel that I know enough to ensure success. Stephen Key fills that void in a superb way.

You have done a great service today! Thanks for the book intro. I not only have an excellent book, but a library of material from a master that's been there and done it - and has done it extremely well.

So glad I did not jump into things!

 

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[danielfrenkel]

BlackIt, LightsOut, NightBlock, BlaqOut, OurTime, ShadowRod.

MoonBeam

Search 'curtains' on Amazon and see if you can come up with any inspiration.

I really really appreciate you taking the time to come up with these

 

[doitman]

You didn't provide a cost breakdown for the parts. I second the having one motor. Also, you might consider other mechanical drives like pneumatics. Maybe even just have a spring loaded setup that springs the curtain open at a given time. Of course then it would have to be reset every night. So, a secondary cheaper product.

I'm sure the plastic molding for mass production will bring the cost down significantly.

EDIT: By the way, I personally do like your product idea. And I love the marketing angle. For marketing, my opinion is that you want the market to either love or hate your advertising, vs to just be neutral about it. Sure, you'll turn off a lot of people to your morning rod idea, but you'll definitely get positive attention from many others based on their constitution. For viral video marketing, we advise out clients to go big. Consumer attention span is so short. Make them feel emotion when you can, even with automated curtain rods.

 

[ChrisV]

So $149 seems like a great price to you, which probably means with a little convincing you'd buy it at $199 So maybe that should be my goal for the moment.

Be careful with that idea. You wanna hit the sweet spot where it flies off the shelves. You don't want to have to do 'a little convincing' for every customer. You just want to put it up and let people eat it up. More convincing = more advertising.

But between Upscale and Morning Rod, it’s obvious you need to learn more about overseas manufacturing. Your price estimates for both inventions are way too inflated and out of the price range for the majority of consumers.

Wait.. the UpScale was made by someone else.

But @OP , It might also be cool to have this have a setting to automatically close when the homeowner leaves the home, but privacy and security reasons (don't want anyone peaking in your home)

 

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[reedracer]

HOWEVER! I need to change the name, as highlighted in this thread

Any ideas?

Here Come the Sun
NewDay
Behold
Curtains 3.0
Diurnal Motion
Arise

 

[Scot]

Here Come the Sun
NewDay
Behold
Curtains 3.0
Diurnal Motion
Arise

Or go straight up informercial and call it Magic Curtain

 

[ChrisV]

Here Come the Sun

dootin doo doo

 

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[Dianne Cohen]

I'm in some dire need of feedback and a reality check from you guys. The thread about the UPSCALE was great and I could use some feedback like that.

So I've always used blackout curtains in my home since they make it nice and dark at night and block the sun during the hot summer days.

But I've always struggled to wake up since they leave the room nearly pitch black in the mornings. So I built a curtain rod that works with my existing off-the-shelf curtains that automatically opens and closes the curtains for me.

View attachment 27066

I set the open time in the app for 5:30am each morning, then have them close at 9am to keep the south-facing bedroom cool during the day. I have another one in the living room that closes 20 minutes past sunset each evening so that no one can look into our house when it gets dark.

Here are the problems: I'm not sure if this thing is worth selling. It's been fun to build, but it currently costs me $105 in parts to make. That means it would need to sell for at least $299 in order to make a living (probably more?). However, the market for window coverings is huge, and most people have many windows they'd probably use this on, so there's a potential that people will buy more than one.

The second problem, all the plastics are 3D printed. They're really sturdy and look great, but doing injection molding is going to require some serious investment, and will probably require the rod to sell for even more. So again, not sure what to do here.

Finally, do people absolutely NEED this? Of course not. My wife and I can't wake up without it anymore, and it does make our bedroom cooler throughout the day, but I don't think it can be sold as something that is needed.

I understand that the cost is really high, but there's just no way around it. The electronics, motors, and aluminum extrusions just add up very quickly.

Anyways, just trying to see what you all think from a business perspective and if I should at least try to sell it via social media marketing to gauge reactions.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Very Cool! Love it, but most likely would not buy it.

 

[Tourmaline]

I'd buy it. $200 seems reasonable. $250 I could swing. $300 would be a little steep.

Maybe give a little discount when buying multiple. Say $900 for 5?

Sorry if this has been answered already, but is this patented? @danielfrenkel

I would look for investors to get this mass manufactured if you don't have the funds already. Or sell it to a window brand get royalties.

 

[SpongeGod]

Hey I saw this on reddit today. It looks really similar to what you have made.
Ah nevermind, I think this might be your post judging from the app.
https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/d6e3rs View: https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/d6e3rs/i_wanted_my_blinds_to_open_and_close/

 

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[Entre Eyes]

Another angle to include...

SECURITY market.

When people are away they can help give the impression of someone inside the home.

 

[Intax]

I'm in some dire need of feedback and a reality check from you guys. The thread about the UPSCALE was great and I could use some feedback like that.

So I've always used blackout curtains in my home since they make it nice and dark at night and block the sun during the hot summer days.

But I've always struggled to wake up since they leave the room nearly pitch black in the mornings. So I built a curtain rod that works with my existing off-the-shelf curtains that automatically opens and closes the curtains for me.

View attachment 27066

I set the open time in the app for 5:30am each morning, then have them close at 9am to keep the south-facing bedroom cool during the day. I have another one in the living room that closes 20 minutes past sunset each evening so that no one can look into our house when it gets dark.

Here are the problems: I'm not sure if this thing is worth selling. It's been fun to build, but it currently costs me $105 in parts to make. That means it would need to sell for at least $299 in order to make a living (probably more?). However, the market for window coverings is huge, and most people have many windows they'd probably use this on, so there's a potential that people will buy more than one.

The second problem, all the plastics are 3D printed. They're really sturdy and look great, but doing injection molding is going to require some serious investment, and will probably require the rod to sell for even more. So again, not sure what to do here.

Finally, do people absolutely NEED this? Of course not. My wife and I can't wake up without it anymore, and it does make our bedroom cooler throughout the day, but I don't think it can be sold as something that is needed.

I understand that the cost is really high, but there's just no way around it. The electronics, motors, and aluminum extrusions just add up very quickly.

Anyways, just trying to see what you all think from a business perspective and if I should at least try to sell it via social media marketing to gauge reactions.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Just let the market determine it. I personally like it and I know some people who'd buy it but just make a social media campaign and a landing page and see if there is enough interest.

 

[BellaPippin]

I love the idea and would buy the product but the name is... ummm. I don’t think it’s the best.

I first thought of some sort of contraption that hit me in the head until I got out of bed

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/F0Y7kjfHRl3a0/giphy.gif



That said, this is one of those Shark Tank successes I feel. I'm sure they can make it work. The compulsive buyers at QVC would buy it I'm sure lol

 

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[danielfrenkel]

Just let the market determine it. I personally like it and I know some people who'd buy it but just make a social media campaign and a landing page and see if there is enough interest.

So I posted this on Reddit and some Facebook groups and got hundreds of replies and about 4k like/upvotes. Many of the replies wanted to buy it, so I think there's a market

However, it was too expensive in its current design so I've redesigned it to only use 1 motor (based on many suggestions here), which has significantly decreased the costs.

My goal is to sell a kit to the hobby market for people who own a 3D printer. There are millions of 3D printers in the wild and many people searching for something to create. Selling a kit to those people seems like a first good step to get this out there and gain feedback at the lowest cost possible

 

[danielfrenkel]

Hey I saw this on reddit today. It looks really similar to what you have made.
Ah nevermind, I think this might be your post judging from the app.
https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/d6e3rs View: https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/d6e3rs/i_wanted_my_blinds_to_open_and_close/

That's me

 

[OverByte]

I think this is a great idea if marketed correctly. The timing is good for products like this, there is a whole craze right now making talk about circadian rhythm alot more mainstream (blue light blockers, sleep trackers, "natural" alarm clocks). For what it's worth I had looked into this at some point for my bedroom and couldn't find anything that I liked at the time. Instead I ended up buying one of those fancy daylight alarm clocks, a top end model for like $170+ tax or something. I would have rather had the curtains open so I think paying $200 for this would be reasonable. Keep in mind I'm from Canada and used to paying a bit more than average for these less ubiquitous goods.

For me the main selling points would be:
* working with existing curtains
* nice app interface for programming it
* silent opening
* I like the idea of it opening over time and having this configurable
* must appear to be very sturdy/durable.

Also note, if I'm paying $200 the product would have to have a bunch of reviews stating that it is extremely well made, quiet with a great interface. I think you may have trouble with initial sales because of this but I don't think that should discourage you but keep it in mind. I think alot of people would be in the same boat as me where this isn't an impulse buy and they want to see that a bunch of people have verified it before buying. Selling on amazon would be helpful from this perspective since they have a great return policy I'm more willing to take chances. I don't know if I'd buy something like this from an unknown website (even if it had a bunch of testimonials).

Nice idea and I like that you went out and got a bunch of feedback.

Just saw the last post about the print yourself market, I'm skeptical that the hobby market is big enough (overlap of people wanting this solution and also having a 3d printer and wanting to DIY this). I could be completely wrong about that though. I personally think there is a market for the real finished product which is probably better worth your time.

 

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[danielfrenkel]

I think this is a great idea if marketed correctly. The timing is good for products like this, there is a whole craze right now making talk about circadian rhythm alot more mainstream (blue light blockers, sleep trackers, "natural" alarm clocks). For what it's worth I had looked into this at some point for my bedroom and couldn't find anything that I liked at the time. Instead I ended up buying one of those fancy daylight alarm clocks, a top end model for like $170+ tax or something. I would have rather had the curtains open so I think paying $200 for this would be reasonable. Keep in mind I'm from Canada and used to paying a bit more than average for these less ubiquitous goods.

For me the main selling points would be:
* working with existing curtains
* nice app interface for programming it
* silent opening
* I like the idea of it opening over time and having this configurable
* must appear to be very sturdy/durable.

Also note, if I'm paying $200 the product would have to have a bunch of reviews stating that it is extremely well made, quiet with a great interface. I think you may have trouble with initial sales because of this but I don't think that should discourage you but keep it in mind. I think alot of people would be in the same boat as me where this isn't an impulse buy and they want to see that a bunch of people have verified it before buying. Selling on amazon would be helpful from this perspective since they have a great return policy I'm more willing to take chances. I don't know if I'd buy something like this from an unknown website (even if it had a bunch of testimonials).

Nice idea and I like that you went out and got a bunch of feedback.

Just saw the last post about the print yourself market, I'm skeptical that the hobby market is big enough (overlap of people wanting this solution and also having a 3d printer and wanting to DIY this). I could be completely wrong about that though. I personally think there is a market for the real finished product which is probably better worth your time.

I agree with all your points. I own one of those $200 Philips lights as well but never use it anymore.

The reason for the hobby market is for 2 reasons. I've gone through hundreds of Kickstarter and Indiegogo hardware campaigns. About 90 percent of them either do not deliver or deliver an extremely poor product (based on hundreds or thousands of angry comments)

The reason is that hardware is insanely hard to do. The reason I think the hobby market is a good fit is that it's small, yet still big enough.

It's estimated that over 500,000 3D printers were sold in 2018

Wohlers Report 2018: 3D Printer Industry Tops $7 Billion

How much is the 3d printing industry worth? The Wohlers Report 2018 shows the 3D Printing Industry exceeds $7.3 Billion. This year's report reveals significant increases in metal additive manufacturing (AM). Investors will appreciate the solid 21 percent growth to hit that $7.3 billion.

www.forbes.com

Half million 3D printers sold in 2017 - on track for 100M sold in 2030 - 3D Printing Industry

3D Printing Industry research shows, the market for Desktop 3D Printers has experienced an acceleration of growth in 2018, with just under 500K desktop 3D printers sold. Extending and analysing the quarterly data provided by research firm Context, shows an impressive 52% year-on-year growth in...

3dprintingindustry.com

And even more insane, is that the company that makes the processor I use, which is extremely popular in the hobby electronics community, has shipped over 100 Million units of processor that's only been out since 2017.

Espressif Achieves the 100-Million Target for IoT Chip Shipments | Espressif Systems

Espressif affirms its leading position in the IoT Market, as its products have been integrated into award-winning high-volume industrial and consumer applications.

www.espressif.com

In addition, Prusa, which manufactures consumer 3D printers, does about $30 million per year.

Going this route will allow me to continually improve the product and ship it out starting in 2 weeks, rather than dealing massive headaches down the road. Once it begins to sell, I can get investments and mass produce it.

I also like to think of August, which makes a simple consumer door lock. They received $73 million in funding because manufacturing a polished IoT product is hard and stupid expensive

August Home | Crunchbase

August develops smarter home access products and services including the award winning August Smart Lock.

www.crunchbase.com

 

[Real Deal Denver]

I agree with all your points. I own one of those $200 Philips lights as well but never use it anymore.

The reason for the hobby market is for 2 reasons. I've gone through hundreds of Kickstarter and Indiegogo hardware campaigns. About 90 percent of them either do not deliver or deliver an extremely poor product (based on hundreds or thousands of angry comments)

The reason is that hardware is insanely hard to do. The reason I think the hobby market is a good fit is that it's small, yet still big enough.

It's estimated that over 500,000 3D printers were sold in 2018

Wohlers Report 2018: 3D Printer Industry Tops $7 Billion

How much is the 3d printing industry worth? The Wohlers Report 2018 shows the 3D Printing Industry exceeds $7.3 Billion. This year's report reveals significant increases in metal additive manufacturing (AM). Investors will appreciate the solid 21 percent growth to hit that $7.3 billion.

www.forbes.com

Half million 3D printers sold in 2017 - on track for 100M sold in 2030 - 3D Printing Industry

3D Printing Industry research shows, the market for Desktop 3D Printers has experienced an acceleration of growth in 2018, with just under 500K desktop 3D printers sold. Extending and analysing the quarterly data provided by research firm Context, shows an impressive 52% year-on-year growth in...

3dprintingindustry.com

And even more insane, is that the company that makes the processor I use, which is extremely popular in the hobby electronics community, has shipped over 100 Million units of processor that's only been out since 2017.

Espressif Achieves the 100-Million Target for IoT Chip Shipments | Espressif Systems

Espressif affirms its leading position in the IoT Market, as its products have been integrated into award-winning high-volume industrial and consumer applications.

www.espressif.com

In addition, Prusa, which manufactures consumer 3D printers, does about $30 million per year.

Going this route will allow me to continually improve the product and ship it out starting in 2 weeks, rather than dealing massive headaches down the road. Once it begins to sell, I can get investments and mass produce it.

I also like to think of August, which makes a simple consumer door lock. They received $73 million in funding because manufacturing a polished IoT product is hard and stupid expensive

August Home | Crunchbase

August develops smarter home access products and services including the award winning August Smart Lock.

www.crunchbase.com

One more time, for those too busy to read the prior threads. Don't reinvent the wheel. This product has been mastered by many companies that have done this cheaper and better than your design - and in addtion to that, they have the distribution channels already in place. But you go ahead and plow time and money into this. Yeah - it could work. Sure it could. Like the picture below, there are all kinds of ways to invent a wheel.



Ever heard of purchasing agents? Some companies call them buyers. They are going to research new products before they take them on to sell. This is what they're going to find. Think you can compete in that market? Sure you can... go for it. And then you're going to find out what it's like to be a grape laying on a highway, facing an oncoming FedEx truck. You'll figure it out very soon.



Blow that wad of cash you have. So we can go on to a different topic, at least...

 

[danielfrenkel]

One more time, for those too busy to read the prior threads. Don't reinvent the wheel. This product has been mastered by many companies that have done this cheaper and better than your design - and in addtion to that, they have the distribution channels already in place. But you go ahead and plow time and money into this. Yeah - it could work. Sure it could. Like the picture below, there are all kinds of ways to invent a wheel.

View attachment 27738

Ever heard of purchasing agents? Some companies call them buyers. They are going to research new products before they take them on to sell. This is what they're going to find. Think you can compete in that market? Sure you can... go for it. And then you're going to find out what it's like to be a grape laying on a highway, facing an oncoming FedEx truck. You'll figure it out very soon.

View attachment 27739

Blow that wad of cash you have. So we can go on to a different topic, at least...

You're free to move to the next topic, I won't hold you back.

 

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[Real Deal Denver]

You're free to move to the next topic, I won't hold you back.

Move on? Why? I want to stay right here. I like reading about how you think you can market an inferior product for twice or triple the cost. I'm a people watcher. I learn a lot from observing. It kind of gives me hope and makes me happy that there are so many people willing to part with their money on a whim.

A fool and his money are soon parted. A sucker is born every minute. On and on the sayings go. I like to see them in action.

Please proceed.

 

[Tammyanne]

I'm in some dire need of feedback and a reality check from you guys. The thread about the UPSCALE was great and I could use some feedback like that.

So I've always used blackout curtains in my home since they make it nice and dark at night and block the sun during the hot summer days.

But I've always struggled to wake up since they leave the room nearly pitch black in the mornings. So I built a curtain rod that works with my existing off-the-shelf curtains that automatically opens and closes the curtains for me.

View attachment 27066

I set the open time in the app for 5:30am each morning, then have them close at 9am to keep the south-facing bedroom cool during the day. I have another one in the living room that closes 20 minutes past sunset each evening so that no one can look into our house when it gets dark.

Here are the problems: I'm not sure if this thing is worth selling. It's been fun to build, but it currently costs me $105 in parts to make. That means it would need to sell for at least $299 in order to make a living (probably more?). However, the market for window coverings is huge, and most people have many windows they'd probably use this on, so there's a potential that people will buy more than one.

The second problem, all the plastics are 3D printed. They're really sturdy and look great, but doing injection molding is going to require some serious investment, and will probably require the rod to sell for even more. So again, not sure what to do here.

Finally, do people absolutely NEED this? Of course not. My wife and I can't wake up without it anymore, and it does make our bedroom cooler throughout the day, but I don't think it can be sold as something that is needed.

I understand that the cost is really high, but there's just no way around it. The electronics, motors, and aluminum extrusions just add up very quickly.

Anyways, just trying to see what you all think from a business perspective and if I should at least try to sell it via social media marketing to gauge reactions.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I will ask my son since he works for (www.view.com)"view glass"...as a lead engineer and similar method but different.

 

[pds]

@danielfrenkel Great execution! Personally, I would buy this and considered purchasing AXIS, but the cost seemed too high.

Let the market decide. There's a huge and growing market for biohackers and sleep optimization. You can easily find this market and advertise to them. Plenty of podcasts / blogs as well.

I suggest you make a landing page and test it out at different price points. Let people go through the checkout process and see if there's sufficient demand for it at.

 

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[SYK]

100% let the market decide. The folks on reddit are about as a direct link to your target market as you’ll get and the feedback is promising. Your market is them, not 65 y/o men.

Test fast and small like @pds suggested. If you then go down the crowdfunding route, feel free to reach out. I did it with a physical product and can share plenty. Good and bad.

 

[Rardburgundy]

I own a slowlane business that sells and installs high end technology into homes and businesses. Here are some of my thoughts:

-Price Point. I think that your cost would be completely sufficient if you target high end customers. I sell motorized shades that range from $1-1.5k per window.

-Power Supply. Is there a way to give the customer options? Most motorized shades have the ability to be battery powered. Can you redesign your tube to house a whole bunch of D batteries? Can you give install companies the ability to pre-wire a new construction home and have a power supply that could power 10 rods? If batteries can't be done, can you get your power wire UL listed to be ran in the wall so that there isn't wire coming down the wall? Also, a solar option would probably be ugly. Minimal is better and wall acne is gross, inside our outside.

-Control. While a standalone app is nice, you have to have your shades play nice with smart home systems.

-CEDIA channel. I think this is where your focus should be. License. Everyone's heard of Hunter Douglas and Lutron. But there are a lot of small shade companies that target just the rich...QMotion, Screen Innovations, Mechoshade, etc. They may like your product and want to incorporate it into their lineup.

I like your product and definitely know a market exists.

 

[Deleted72597]

Interesting idea, good job on the execution so far!
Here are some inputs you can do what you want with.

1. Idea
I too believe there is a market for this and I believe it's worth spending time on it.
Considering the "need" for the product, at least you can market it with all psychology relating to the physiological need for sleep and the positive benefits of it, the security provided by trust in waking up when you should. One could argue for all levels of Maslow's pyramid of needs being covered to some extent by this product.

2. Price
I would easily buy this for $200 if I was in the targeted group of people, probably $250, $300-$400 if I had a good economy and there were no other options.

3.
I don't know how sunlight producing lamps contest with this product, but it certainly comes to mind.

4.
I would consider keeping the name for the exact reason others suggest you should consider changing it.
I myself fell victim to leaning more towards clicking on the topic in the forum because of the association with sex. Imagine what that might do for product exposure in different marketing strategies (at least if the target audience is the average consumer)? Of course, you would have to get behind using this bias as a part of your product.

5.
Even if the core idea stems from the wish for better sleep (sunlight awakening, alarm factor etc.) I would consider looking more into another version of the idea that takes its purpose more away from sleep and awakening, away from the big potential market that buys one product and into the market of people with more wealth or projected wealth. People who have a big house with plenty of big windows and would want this for style, simplicity, displayed luxury, design, etc. The concept of automation is a better selling point if it automates more, rather than less. Not that it couldn't cover all needs, I'm just saying. That sort of market might help alleviate the challenge of production cost and price. It would shift competition from alarms, sun lamps, etc. towards very similar products. In a market that is willing to pay more for more, you could also make your product beat the competition by focussing more on design and style. Or maybe you could beat the competition that already focuses on style and design by offering a lower price than their options. You could also consider potential buyers like hotels and businesses in the process if you haven't already.

If it was me inventing this product, I would focus heavily on all possible adaptions and markets for that exact or a similar device. I would also research competition for all those markets and adaptions.

I think you're on to something, keep going! I'm sure you can find some way to turn what you have into something that sells.

 

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[FiftySeven]

As featured on Hackaday Oct 14th:

The MorningRod Wants Your Mornings Easier, Not Harder

Curtains are about as simple as household devices get, but they can be remarkably troublesome to automate. Everyone’s window treatments are slightly different, which frustrates a standardized…

hackaday.com

Congrats!

'57

 

[Mark Trade]

My background is Patents and Trademarks.

1st, I assume you have a provisional patent applied for, before telling everyone.???

2nd, if you haven't, then you may have just lost your idea to someone else.!!! fact.!!!

3rd, have you done a patent search in your own country or via the IP Website.???


In the words of an expert, tell no-one NOTHING until you are 100% covered.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

My background is Patents and Trademarks.

1st, I assume you have a provisional patent applied for, before telling everyone.???

2nd, if you haven't, then you may have just lost your idea to someone else.!!! fact.!!!

3rd, have you done a patent search in your own country or via the IP Website.???


In the words of an expert, tell no-one NOTHING until you are 100% covered.

I was going to PM you, but decided it would be best for the benefit of everyone here, to put this out in the open.

I have several inventions I am working on. Here is what I see as a big big problem. First, I can't patent them effectively because they can be easily redesigned in 25 different ways. Think of a handheld hairdryer for example. Ever look how many of these are for sale in WalMart? Dozens. If I wanted to, I could make my own design, with many improvements over what is out there, within one hour. But it would be a waste of time because someone would advance my design to be even better. And back and forth it would go.

Secondly, if I did manage to patent something effectively, and someone did infringe on it - what would I do about it? A patent only gives me a license to sue them, which is going to take a lot of time and money. The odds are against me all the way. Even if I do win, getting the money is another battle. These crooks know how to shut down and restart under a different name - in other words, they take the money and run.

All valid concerns. But, let's say I do come up with something. Say, a phone that projects a hologram image in front of me of who is calling. Cool. Someone will come up with the same thing doing it a different way. As Mark Zuckerburg once said - you can't patent a chair.

I have not found anyone, despite years of trying, that can address my concerns in a logical manner. Sure, the patent attorneys say go for it - so they get paid. My friends say go for it because they're supportive.

I don't like swimming in shark-infested waters, and I've been looking for someone like you for a very long time.

 

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[Mark Trade]

I was going to PM you, but decided it would be best for the benefit of everyone here, to put this out in the open.

I have several inventions I am working on. Here is what I see as a big big problem. First, I can't patent them effectively because they can be easily redesigned in 25 different ways. Think of a handheld hairdryer for example. Ever look how many of these are for sale in WalMart? Dozens. If I wanted to, I could make my own design, with many improvements over what is out there, within one hour. But it would be a waste of time because someone would advance my design to be even better. And back and forth it would go.

Secondly, if I did manage to patent something effectively, and someone did infringe on it - what would I do about it? A patent only gives me a license to sue them, which is going to take a lot of time and money. The odds are against me all the way. Even if I do win, getting the money is another battle. These crooks know how to shut down and restart under a different name - in other words, they take the money and run.

All valid concerns. But, let's say I do come up with something. Say, a phone that projects a hologram image in front of me of who is calling. Cool. Someone will come up with the same thing doing it a different way. As Mark Zuckerburg once said - you can't patent a chair.

I have not found anyone, despite years of trying, that can address my concerns in a logical manner. Sure, the patent attorneys say go for it - so they get paid. My friends say go for it because they're supportive.

I don't like swimming in shark-infested waters, and I've been looking for someone like you for a very long time.

1st up, you have valid concerns, however your looking at this all wrong. (Yes I'm going to be blunt, for a reason, which I will later divulge).

The USA and Australia Patent Laws work along the same lines, so the lingo is almost identical. (Lingo means language). In the US, a utility patent, also known as a “patent for invention,” prohibits other individuals or companies from making, using, or selling the invention without authorization. When most people refer to a patent, they are most likely referring to a utility patent.

Utility Patent: Definition, How It's Issued, Search, and Examples

A utility patent is a patent that covers the creation of a new or improved—and useful—product, process, or machine.

www.investopedia.com

Now, you mentioned the following, If I wanted to, I could make my own design, with many improvements over what is out there, within one hour. But it would be a waste of time because someone would advance my design to be even better. And back and forth it would go.

That's not entirely correct, so, lets imagine you have a Walmart hairdryer, Model 101 and your not happy with where the buttons / controls are placed. You figure, that by placing the buttons on the side of the handle and the control on top, it's a much better ergonomic design. That's called an improvement patent. Many items sold in stores are manufactured under multiple patents. You need to think outside the square.

IMPORTANT: Utility patents cover the creation of a new or "improved"— and useful — product, process, or machine and give its inventor exclusive commercial rights to it for 20 years. So go back over and look at our example where, we looked at the buttons / controls. You are within the law, to patent that idea, the only one who will likely object is Walmart. Now this opens a can of worms, Walmart is bigger than you and would probably bleed you dry. So approach it from a different angle, make an appointment and go see them and explain what you have come up with. Leave out all the important details, but just give them the basics. See if they are willing to go as partners on your patent, it's a win-win. Don't aim to be a big fish in a small pond. You will lose.

Another option is what's called be a small fish in a big pond. Don't make an improvement to the Hair Dryer, make an improvement to the button or the control, or the power cord or plug, the fan, the grill, the heating element. Introduce a safety feature that shuts the dryer off, if it hasn't sensed movement in 30 seconds. Chances are those buttons and controls, fans and cords, plugs are used in more appliances and electronics than just Dryers.

You also mentioned the holographic phone, yes, you could patent that, but you would own ownership of it, if someone else tried to improve on it, that's fine, you still own the original patent. If a phone manufacturer bought and used their idea, you would still get royalties, because your patent for the holographic phone was registered first. If someone invented the 3d holographic phone, you would still get royalties. If another invented Obi Wan Kanobee as a popup in the hologram, you would still get royalties.

Improvement Patent | Everything you Need to Know

Learning how to patent an improvement on an existing product is a vital step toward marketability and premiums. Use UpCounsel to get legal help and save up to 60% vs law firms.

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Now the best bit, this is where you can make a lot of money, I know, so does my Bank Manager. Don't try and invent something, or make an improvement. Look at expired patents. Think about it.!!

 

[Real Deal Denver]

Another option is what's called be a small fish in a big pond. Don't make an improvement to the Hair Dryer, make an improvement to the button or the control, or the power cord or plug, the fan, the grill, the heating element. Introduce a safety feature that shuts the dryer off, if it hasn't sensed movement in 30 seconds. Chances are those buttons and controls, fans and cords, plugs are used in more appliances and electronics than just Dryers.

You also mentioned the holographic phone, yes, you could patent that, but you would own ownership of it, if someone else tried to improve on it, that's fine, you still own the original patent. If a phone manufacturer bought and used their idea, you would still get royalties, because your patent for the holographic phone was registered first. If someone invented the 3d holographic phone, you would still get royalties. If another invented Obi Wan Kanobee as a popup in the hologram, you would still get royalties.

Very good points. Thank you for your insight.

However.

In the first example, you say I can patent the buttons, for example, which may be used on other non-related products. Let's say I use existing buttons from a different product, which I have not invented. I haven't really invented anything then - I have combined existing patented products in a new way though. So would I owe royalties to the patent holders of the hairdryer and the button designer then? What would "my" patent be - since it is a new product that didn't exist before.

The same applies for the second product. I did not invent the phone or the holographic image projector.

This equally fascinating and equally frustrating. But I am seeing things in a way that I haven't before, and I have read dozens of books on inventing and patents. None of them looked at things this way - I guess that's why I kept buying books looking for the complete answer.

As far as the curtain rods which is the topic of this thread; the same would apply. This could be a combination of already existing products - the rods, the motor, the control, etc. And what if I took that finished invention and, say, made it waterproof so it could be used for a shower curtain or an outside patio? Same invention - but then again, not.

I read about the paper clip being invented. Then someone came along and cut ribs into it so it would hold the papers better without slipping. The new paper clip was considered a new invention, in spite of the fact that it was an exact copy of the other paper clip, except for the added feature...

Thanks for the insight. I can't wait for your response!