Intro, AMA, and a Recent Sale for $6M of InvestorJunkie.com

[lludwig]

Bump...

I'm on another podcast and go into more detail about how I monetized and tracked affiliate links at Investor Junkie.

Larry Ludwig - Selling an Affiliate Site For $6 Million

On today’s show, we are talking with Larry Ludwig who has over twenty years of experience creating and promoting websites for himself and others.

evergreenprofits.com

 

[lludwig]

Hey Larry,

Have you noticed the new owners of Investor Junkie have changed the theme of the site?

From an SEO perspective, why do you think they would switch to a Themeforest theme knowing that the business had been built on user experience, speed, conversion, etc? Why would they spend $6m on a site and take the risk on hurting the evolution of the site?

To be honest, I think it hurts the value a little bit and could also hurt serps.

I thought this question might benefit future website buyers. Thoughts?

Yes, I am aware, and no I have no public comment.

 

[JohnZ123]

Phenomenal results! Welcome to the forum

 

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[SEBASTlAN]

Wow 6M congrats.

 

[James Fake]

Very cool story. Glad to see you here! Nice car btw too...

 

[Tiago]

I don't really know what I want next is the biggest question. I still need some soul searching on this. I haven't seen a problem that I want to solve. What I'm trying to do more of is forget about any real or preconceived limits I may think I have.

"What problem could I solve if I had no limits?" Is the question I keep asking.

It isn't so much the money other than keeping score. I mean I've even considered maybe I'll get some VC and using someone else's money to build something much bigger than I could do myself. But would I be happy? I don't know as on one hand, it would be challenging. Yet I would get more into operations would have to deal with more employees.

This book might be able to help you upgrade your questions and find what you really, really, really want to do.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062102419/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

 

[Owner2Millions]

@lludwig congrats. I love reading these types of threads on how people worked and worked and finally achieved what they worked so hard for attain. I myself have been lurking a lot lately and trying so many different things lately within my business.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

@lludwig -- ha ha, sorry, I had no idea you would be roped into an *unofficial* AMA. Thank you for responding to may of the forum's questions. Rep+

PS: Can I edit the thread title to include your company name and so it is more descriptive?

 

[lludwig]

Hi @lludwig Congratulations for the sale and thanks for answering the many questions. If you don't mind sharing, can you tell us how was your site valued? Roughly what TTM multiple did you get? I understand if you don't want to share, but I would really love to know.

I have a tech website which makes a little bit which I could potentially scale. However I am always in a dilemma whether to invest my full time to it. I have another separate business which does decently so I am always postponing working on this site. A rough idea of how much I could potentially sell this for might just be the motivation I need... Thanks.

Per my NDA I cannot disclose the multiple.

It depends upon the site and other factors as well.

There are companies that can help in valuation, but ultimately it's is whatever someone wants to pay.

 

[Lionhearted]

I don't really know what I want next is the biggest question. I still need some soul searching on this. I haven't seen a problem that I want to solve. What I'm trying to do more of is forget about any real or preconceived limits I may think I have.

"What problem could I solve if I had no limits?" Is the question I keep asking.

It isn't so much the money other than keeping score. I mean I've even considered maybe I'll get some VC and using someone else's money to build something much bigger than I could do myself. But would I be happy? I don't know as on one hand, it would be challenging. Yet I would get more into operations would have to deal with more employees.

For me identifying my core principle was the key (the one thing that makes me most happy and must have in my life). In my case my core principle is freedom. I need to be option rich. I keep that in mind and move forward in way that complements my core principle and stay true to that. Congratulations on your success. I am benefiting greatly from this thread. Thank you. Love the "Lego for adults analogy".

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Can you give me an example? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Not sure you are doing this, but I've heard it is common in the finance space.

When people register for your site, at the bottom there is a checkbox that says, "Would you like to receive a free report from XYZ company on the best mutual funds?"

When someone clicks the check box (they're already registering for YOUR service) you get paid because they opted in for the free report. That's a lead for the "free report company."

You're affiliating for the "free report company" and they pay you $1 for each registration lead.

There's terminology for this type of arrangement (beyond "affiliate program") which I can't remember.

Also Mixergy had a podcast with a dude in the financial space who was doing it, and was making a killing on it.

I've been unable to recall either.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

@MJ DeMarco, I think you're talking about co-registration (co-reg).

Yes!! That's it!

 

[lludwig]

When people register for your site, at the bottom there is a checkbox that says, "Would you like to receive a free report from XYZ company on the best mutual funds?"

When someone clicks the check box (they're already registering for YOUR service) you get paid because they opted in for the free report. That's a lead for the "free report company."

You're affiliating for the "free report company" and they pay you $1 for each registration lead.

There's terminology for this type of arrangement (beyond "affiliate program") which I can't remember.

Also Mixergy had a podcast with a dude in the financial space who was doing it, and was making a killing on it.

I've been unable to recall either.

Ah ok, completely different than what I was thinking.

Yea Investing Channel is the company that popularized this email signup. I forget the terminology though.

I disliked this technique as I felt it was too spammy. Plus HATED Investing Channel as a service but that's a whole other story.

No, I did not do this but considered it. That was popular a few years ago, but I haven't seen anyone do this recently in mass. There was much more money to be made than that way.

Emails, in general, I had an issue to monetize.

Unlike other niches, investing readers had a very limited lifetime. It was not uncommon for me to completely refresh the list within one year. Meaning an email subscriber lasted no longer than a year, if that. Meaning they would get the information they needed and be gone. Sure they may have and did come back for other topics but it was to satisfy other specific needs than long-term general education. People just don't have the patience to invest for the long-term and the habits I saw from readers confirmed it as well.

A side note it was very common for individuals to test out two robo-advisors and would pick the winner (in total returns) after six months!!

 

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[lludwig]

Zero Hedge has an example on their site since they use Investing Channel.

 

[lludwig]

Wow really strong insight

AND ValuePengiun was just aquired for $105M!

LendingTree, Inc. to Acquire ValuePenguin

11/12x multiple. Another debt based site (mostly).

 

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[lludwig]

lludwig

That is amazing, I have so many business ideas but don't have the financial backing or (frankly) time that is required to turn them into a success. I can believe you invested investorjunkie, that website is huge! I am wondering what you are interested in now, are you interested in product based businesses or service? Do you want to build websites based on market evaluation and than sell them in 2 years for a profit?

-SamUSA

One official direction I can speak about is creating an affiliate marketing course.

 

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[lludwig]

Hello and congratulations for the excellent result

I have 2 questions:
1. How many articles have you published in total?
2. What was the biggest source of traffic to the site?

1. I had around 1200 articles at the time
2. SEO.

 

[lludwig]

Which professionals did your team form? And what did you do as a technician on the site?
Thanks again

I had:

• Writers
• Editors
• Designers
• Programmers
• SEO Consultant
• Affiliate manager

The second question is too vague.

 

[dru-man]

Dug into lludwig's course a few days ago and I've been taking notes.

I was a little concerned it would be too entry-level for me based on the sales page, but I'd already taken notes on all his posts on the forum and was eager to pick his brain a bit more without pestering him for free info - jumping onto a paid program of his seemed the appropriate way to do that. Plus figured the Facebook group will end up being great value on its own.

Anyhow, been through first couple lessons: the content is solid and he has a good style of breaking things down. even for things I sort of knew already he always adds a little extra spin that makes it worthwhile. Which makes perfect sense given how entrenched he was in his big project the past few years.

Looking forward to digging into the next videos. Research is up next and definitely imagine he'll have some solid insights to offer there.

No affiliation in case anyone's wondering.

 

[ZeroTo100]

Hey Larry,

Have you noticed the new owners of Investor Junkie have changed the theme of the site?

From an SEO perspective, why do you think they would switch to a Themeforest theme knowing that the business had been built on user experience, speed, conversion, etc? Why would they spend $6m on a site and take the risk on hurting the evolution of the site?

To be honest, I think it hurts the value a little bit and could also hurt serps.

I thought this question might benefit future website buyers. Thoughts?

 

[lludwig]

I can understand that.

If you care to elaborate, I wanted to ask some questions regarding SEO for 2020.

The landscape to rank is definitely changing and it’s becoming harder in my opinion to get on page one. Plus, google is doing a better job keeping users on their site as appose to sending them off. Also, I’m seeing more snipits, Q&A, videos, paid ads on page one and less review type pages ranking. What are your thoughts on all this and how would you approach SEO in starting a new site with a small team and a small budget in 2020.

Sure, in fact, I recently discussed some of my thoughts on a recent article on my site about the trends for the next 10 years.

8 Blogging and Business Trends for the Next 10 Years

It's hard to predict the future, though one should try. I tell you the 8 blogging trends you should not ignore.

larryludwig.com

Currently, 60-85% of all traffic comes from organic search. You rely on Google for most of your traffic. Even though it’s on the decline, if you aren’t optimizing for Google, you should be. You are missing out on a huge audience for your blog.

Though the trend is obvious. Less traffic is coming from organic search. From the data at Advanced Ranking, in May 2014 the CTR was 39% for the #1 position in organic search.

Today the #1 position gets an average CTR of 31% or a decrease of 8%.

You should mix SEM with SEO IMHO. That's not to say you should ignore SEO, just the fact you have to "pay to play" at least some level for some keywords.

YouTube is another area that's still ripe for plucking with SEO. So I would do a multi-channel approach.

Schema is becoming more important and should be using it. Though like you said can be a double edge sword. In some cases, it's shown that showing in featured snippets can decrease the CTR of SERP. So it should create an open loop in which it causes people to want to click and not completely solve their problem. Even though Google may want that at some level. So add value but don't give away everything. In many cases Google's snippets can't do it all and the person must click to the source website.

Though for something like a recipe or some question and answer (in the case of voice search) then that might be all that's needed.

In regards to keyword research, do you focus more on search volume or click-through data?

Just wondering, as an SEO yourself, how do you see search ranking changing going into 2020?

Thoughts?

Neither, it's intent.

It's always been important and now even more so. What matters is quality over quantity. I want the right people to visit my site. What matters is with the keyword where are they alone the sales funnel journey. I always use this example. "what is a mortgage" compared to "best mortgage rate" is a much different intent and much further along in the sales funnel journey.

So don't hit the visitor with mortgage rates for "what is a mortgage". They are much earlier in the sales funnel process so you can't be so transactional. In fact, Google will penalize you for this.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

@lludwig -- did the company that acquired this property recently sell it?

 

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[lludwig]

Thanks for providing this story! Oddly, I'm new to the forum and this post is virtually where I'm heading. I'm not sure I'm in a great niche and I'm pivoting and building content. But I like the ability of an affiliate/advertising site as a way to get started and move quickly.

If you have advice for someone just getting started in affiliate marketing, I'd be grateful to hear it! My technical skill is very high, but I have a low sales and marketing quotient!

Build an audience and serve that audience.

 

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[FastNAwesome]

Welcome to the forum. Great and inspiring intro!

 

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[lludwig]

Congrats and welcome @lludwig
How I used SEO to create (and eventually sell) in a tough niche
@MJ DeMarco @lludwig just linking a similar 7 figure exit success thread posted last month that went a bit under the radar, I hope @Jason "GrandK" doesn't mind me linking.

I'll have to contact him since I think term life does have some opportunities as well. Thanks!

 

[lludwig]

Very interesting story. Highly reminiscent of mine. Your Fundrise review page is awesome.

Curious if you would provide some feedback on my new site. I started it before I sold my last one so I was able to do a carve out some exclusions in the non-compete (2 years just like yours).

Sure PM me if you don't want to to be known.

 

[Timmy C]

Congratulations!!

 

[IGP]

Larry,

I see you work with Bankrate. I've been a partner of theirs since 2011. Did you ever attend any of their affiliate conferences at The Breakers?

If so, we have likely met or crossed paths several times.

At the one a few years ago (where they had just acquired Caring.com for 50MM+), they spoke for a while about the senior living and senior care sector and why it is going to be a huge boom moving forward (baby boomers getting old, etc.)

I've often thought about doing a site in that niche. Money to be made for sure in the same model.

 

[GatsbyMag]

@lludwig

I can't relate to your current situation. But from what I've seen, a lot of successful entrepreneurs around me have lost their personalities on their pursuit to wealth. I notice that once those entrepreneurs have retaken an old hobby or started pursuing something that meaningfully impacts society, their eyes light up again. I hope that helps in some way.

As CEO of InvestorJunkie I presume you received a lot of cold emails, calls, InMails etc. requesting for your business. I'm a young salesman and I'm interested in hearing about what kind of cold outreaches got your attention. Did the messaging tend to be short and to the point? Did they address an immediate or potential problem your business might face? Were the subject lines catchy or formal?

Or is it too difficult to say what kind of messaging got your attention because it varied so greatly?

 

[lludwig]

This book might be able to help you upgrade your questions and find what you really, really, really want to do.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062102419/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

Bought it on Audible.