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GOLD! Intro, AMA, and a Recent Sale for $6M of InvestorJunkie.com

lludwig

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I've been a business owner in some form since 1997.

My first business was web hosting and web development.

I didn't know it at the time, but perhaps one of the worst businesses to be in.

Low margins, low barrier to entry, and you need to respond to tech support 24/7.

In December 2009 I got sick of developing and hosting websites for other customers. Two of them at the time was Comedy Central and Thought Catalog.

I was stressed out, burnt out and looking to do something else. I felt unappreciated by my customers for the long hours and what I thought was low revenue for the work.

*** UPDATE: For more of the back story with my web hosting business, read this article. ***

Something at that time just snapped for me. I had my FTE (F*ck This Event) even though I already owned a business for many years.

I couldn't deal with a high workload and the stress of customer support.

I got to thinking "why can't I develop a site for myself and generate revenue from the visitors?!??"

At the time, I was doing somewhat ok financially and had all my ducks in a row.

I was looking for a website that could help speak to me about investing, but more the advanced topics. Money magazine and Suze Orman weren't cutting it and I was way more advanced than that. I couldn't find a site that fit my needs.

So I figured I would create one myself and named it Investor Junkie. So while somewhat self-serving, I also had plenty of experience to talk about investing.

Plus I figured I could use it to showcase the technology used to develop and maintain it.

It could be used as a selling point for my web development and design. My thinking was I would monetize via affiliate marketing. I saw a few other websites doing it and doing quite well.

In 2008, the website Bankaholic sold for $15 million to Bankrate. They made their money only with affiliate links. My thoughts were "why couldn't that also be me?"

This little skunkworks operation turned into a business onto itself after 2 years into it.

It started generating more revenue and was much more profitable than my original business.

Fast forward to July 2018, I sold Investor Junkie for $6M.

XLMedia Buys Personal Finance Site InvestorJunkie For USD6 Million

About 3 years prior, I read MJ's first book and even with my years of business experience got a lot out it.

He confirmed many of my existing beliefs of owning a business and organized it in a way much better than I ever could.

MJ's books gave me more direction and helped keep me more focused on the ball. So thanks for this.

To celebrate the sale I bought one thing. Ever since I was around 8 years old I saw my first Porsche Turbo in the Hamptons and fell in love with the car. I always wanted one. So I bought a 2015 991.1 Turbo S as a little present for me. It was purely symbolic. I could have afforded it long ago, but I figured I needed some reward after all the long days and stressors of owning a business.

IMG_0491.jpg

So what's next? I really don't know. While exciting also nervous as I typically have a clear direction of what I would do next. I have some ideas but joined this forum to look at other business ideas.

Thanks for the welcome and thanks to MJ DeMarco for your books.
 
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JM35

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Congrats on the sale and welcome to the forums!

Having experience with both investing and running online business, what are your thoughts on using websites and online businesses as complements to traditional investment portfolios?

Obviously, there is a higher learning curve for investing in websites vs. stocks and ETF's (aka higher risk), but given the attractive valuations of websites and online businesses, I think it's a fascinating concept if you have the skills and enough knowledge to keep a website performing consistently.

Have you considered rolling some of those sale proceeds into a more passive online business?
 

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Marking NOTABLE, way to kill it! Glad to have had a small part of it.

So yes, what's the plan now? Repeat? Semi-retire? Go on a long holiday?
 
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lludwig

lludwig

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Have you considered rolling some of those sale proceeds into a more passive online business?
Like what? I've never found a truly passive online business. Even my web hosting business which also is now on the selling block wasn't completely passive.
 
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lludwig

lludwig

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Marking NOTABLE, way to kill it! Glad to have had a small part of it.

So yes, what's the plan now? Repeat? Semi-retire? Go on a long holiday?
Hey MJ,

I could technically retire with this sale and my existing assets already, but entrepreneurship is like a disease and plan on never formally retiring. I like to think businesses are the adult version of LEGO. I've realized I'm great at being the visionary and I do execute well, but don't like when a business becomes mundane and needs much more people (sort of what your situation was). Having loads of employees sucks.....

My plans so far...
  • Six months of transition with the website.
  • My hosting business still exists and putting that on the selling block. Originally was going to in 2008 but decided to just let it ride. Hosting businesses have horrible multiples (1x TTM revenues) and decided to just let slowly die was the best approach. Now I never want to see it again! And want to clear house and start from scratch.
  • Shut down my existing company (for legal and legacy reasons)
  • Create a new company (even if it's not final on what I have plan to do next) so I can at least have a biz entity to work from and for legal and tax reasons.
  • Re-read your two books, plus other business books to get some new ideas (if anyone has suggestions of other books for biz ideas let me know).
  • I have a non-compete and think there's still some things can be executed better in the personal finance space, but must wait till it's over. So it's gonna be hard for anything related to the personal finance space for now. I'll have to work on other verticals.
  • Create a personal brand. This was perhaps my biggest mistake in creating the Investor Junkie brand. I focused on the business brand yet didn't build my personal brand at the same time.
  • Take six months off (If I make it that long :)) after the six-month contract with the aquiring firm.
  • Buy some domain names (already doing this) for some ideas I have.
  • Focus on a plan to generate income from my liquidity event and other existing assets for my "paycheck pot" as you call it.
I have some specific new biz ideas but don't want to discuss them yet. I don't think they are fully jelled and don't want to publicly commit on a forum these ideas. At least not yet.

I also may not want do any of them and go off in a completely different direction. Not sure yet and that is my dilemma (yea I know first world problems).

The question I have for you MJ and others in my situation is what did you do next?

Since you obviously went through this period MJ you have the unique privilege as well.

Did you have a period of unknowing what you wanted to do next? Or did you know that this site and books were always in the cards?

I joined this site to at least seek other like-minded individuals and see what ideas others are working on to help perhaps stir my creative juices as well.

Also I have loads of online experience, investment experience and a talent stack of writing, tech guru, SEO, SEM, and affiliate marketing. Seeing if I could help anyone who needs help in those areas.

Thanks.
 
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Big_Benny

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"I could technically retire with this sale and my existing assets already, but entrepreneurship is like a disease and plan on never formally retiring. I like to think businesses are the adult version of LEGO".

I love this quote! It's essentially like building the model after you've followed the instructions... The real fun begins after, because that's when the restraints are taken away and you can build whatever your imagination desires.

Congratulations on your success!
 

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My thought on what to do next is that now you can really ask yourself, if you had $100M in the bank, what would you do. You've got some pocket change to really follow that answer.

I ask myself that all the time, and I figure out that I'm actually doing it, but to a much smaller scale.
 

MTF

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Congratulations, @lludwig.

Create a personal brand. This was perhaps my biggest mistake in creating the Investor Junkie brand. I focused on the business brand yet didn't build my personal brand at the same time.
I don't think it was a mistake. If you had created a personal brand instead of the Investor Junkie brand, it's very possible you wouldn't have been able to sell it for the same multiple. Also, thanks to not putting yourself in the spotlight, you could maintain your privacy.

Did you have a period of unknowing what you wanted to do next? Or did you know that this site and books were always in the cards?
Give yourself some time. Don't rush it. Appreciate what you have now. Switch your focus from business interests to health and non-business passions. Share your knowledge. With your experience, you can contribute a lot to this forum and feel productive without jumping back into another business prematurely.

I'm still figuring it out myself, but I've learned that the most important part is to learn to feel okay taking things easy. You've worked hard to get to this point, so now you can afford to slow down a little and get back to work when you're 100% convinced about your new project.

Don't freak out when you start feeling a void in your life or even get depressive thoughts. It's a normal part of the process that I think everybody who has achieved financial independence has to go through.

@biophase's question is really cool - I'm going to explore my own answers to it, too.
 
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lludwig

lludwig

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If you had created a personal brand instead of the Investor Junkie brand, it's very possible you wouldn't have been able to sell it for the same multiple.
Yea I've seen a few other friends sell in this space and I agree. I'm saying I should have created them in parallel and separate from each other.
 

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Wow. If you wrote all of the articles that have your by-line then you are an epic writer. Nice work and congrats.

It is interesting to see that you feel like the finance space still has a lot of openings. That is where there is money to be made “blogging” but the competition is fierce.

We’re you approached to sell or did you put your site on the market?
 
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lludwig

lludwig

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Wow. If you wrote all of the articles that have your by-line then you are an epic writer. Nice work and congrats.

It is interesting to see that you feel like the finance space still has a lot of openings. That is where there is money to be made “blogging” but the competition is fierce.

We’re you approached to sell or did you put your site on the market?
I wrote most, but there are many other writers and editors. Many of my original reviews and article have been updated by others.

The personal finance space is easier than my previous business of web hosting. Much easier!

I think there's still money to be made because many of the sites are horrible, plus its not just great writing that makes a site special. Otherwise, my friend from college who wanted to be the next Steven King would have been rich already. There needs to be a great UI/UX experience and functionality to add value for the reader. Most are horrible in the execution of their idea.

Plus this isn't "Field of Dreams". Build it and they certainly will not come.

I was approached. Though there is a leading firm named Founders who specializes in these types of sites and could have easily used them to sell.
 
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lludwig

lludwig

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An interesting thing I gathered from an investment only website which others on the forum may appreciate.

I had an active interest in investing when I created Investor Junkie. I didn't care about getting out of debt websites, which most personal finance blogs are about. When I started, I never really thought about why that was the case though.

I think Investor Junkie, while is great and still can grow, is somewhat limited in size because it focused ONLY on investing. Whereas debt based sites typically do much more revenue if executed right. They generate much much more traffic and have a mass appeal audience. Its great Investor Junkie is being pooled in with other websites, so they can sell ad and affiliate revenue to a much bigger pool of readers.

Nerdwallet comes to mind and their $60M in annual revenues from last count. While they compete in the investment review space with me, most of their revenue comes from debt refinancing. I can estimate their investment revenue is around $2-3M/year if that.

Recently another site was sold, Student Loan Hero for $60M. A site to help students refinance their student debt.

My theory of why this is the case is because our economy is debt based. Our society is massively in debt and most don't have much money to invest. Therefore you are limited by how much traffic you can generate compared to a debt-based website.

As a business, debt based businesses (ie credit card company) are much more profitable than investment based businesses (ie brokerage firm). Which makes me actively wonder if I should focus on something in that space for my next business venture.

Bottom line, debt-based businesses generate more revenue than investment based.
 
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mikey3times

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There needs to be a great UI/UX experience and functionality to add value for the reader. Most are horrible in the execution of their idea.
Yes! I noticed this is what you do very well. I really like your sidebar navigation components.
 
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lludwig

lludwig

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Yes! I noticed this is what you do very well. I really like your sidebar navigation components.
Thanks. Everything on the site has a purpose and nothing in the layout is by accident.

Layout, button locations, colors, lack of ads, what's clickable or not, etc.. etc.. All this affects UX and can affect SEO/SERP as well.

All of this was tested by looking at Google Analytics data, Woopra (another analytic tool), heatmaps and recording of users visiting the site. Did metrics we monitor improve or get hurt by the changes made?

I suggest studying my site very closely for similar verticals. Obviously what worked on my site may not in your vertical as I found some "determined truths" with UX/UI didn't apply to our site. Your mileage may vary, but it's a great case study.
 
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What I regret most after selling my first company was not doing something BIG with a specific end in mind.

I launched some sites and did more of what I was doing at the time in another vertical (due to a non-compete) and made good money doing it. However, it wasn't a long term play. That's where I messed up.

I had the resources, knowledge and capital to do something remarkable and instead I thought WAY to small because I had a nice comfortable bank account and no expenses.

So, my advice would be; once you realize what it is that you really want to do, GO BIG.

Set yourself a plan to reach your next level of FU money (if that's what you want) and execute relentlessly.

Good luck!
 

Sebastya

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As a business, debt based businesses (ie credit card company) are much more profitable than investment based businesses (ie brokerage firm). Which makes me actively wonder if I should focus on something in that space for my next business venture.
Interesting.

I've always thought it would be useful to have a tool that will tell you which credit card you should pay off first..I remember having 5-6 credit cards that all had balances and I wouldn't know which one to focus on since I forgot the interest rates on each card.
 

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Hi All,

First-time poster but has lurked on this forum for a while and have read both MJ DeMarco's books. I've been a business owner in some form since 1997. My first business was web hosting and web development.

I didn't know it at the time, but perhaps one of the worst businesses to be in. Low margins, low barrier to entry, and always need to respond to tech support 24/7. I was stressed out, burnt out and looking to do something else.

In December 2009 I got sick of developing and hosting websites for other customers (two of them at the time was Comedy Central and Thought Catalog). My thought was why can't I develop a site like this and generate revenue from the visitors?!??

Something at that time just snapped for me. I couldn't deal with a high workload and the stress of customer support.

I also was doing somewhat ok financially and had all my ducks in a row. I was looking for a website that could help speak to me about investing and more the advanced topics. Money magazine and Suze Orman weren't cutting it for me and way more advanced than that.

So I figured I would create one myself and named it Investor Junkie. So while somewhat self-serving also had plenty of experience to talk about investing.

Plus I figured I could create it to showcase the technology created to develop and maintain it and could be used as a selling point for my web development and design. I would monetize via affiliate marketing was my plan.

This little skunkworks operation turned into a business onto itself after 2 years into it. It started generating more revenue and was much more profitable than my original business.

Fast forward to July 2018 I sold Investor Junkie for $6M.

XLMedia Buys Personal Finance Site InvestorJunkie For USD6 Million

About 3 years ago read MJ's first book and even with my years of business experience got a lot out it. He confirmed many of my existing beliefs of owning a business. MJ's books gave me more direction and helped keep me more focused on the ball. So thanks for this.

To celebrate the sale I bought one thing. Ever since I was around 8 years old I saw my first Porsche Turbo in the Hamptons and fell in love with the car. I always wanted one. So I bought a 2015 991.1 Turbo S as a little present for me. It was purely symbolic. I could have afforded it long ago, but I figured I needed some reward after all the long days and stressors of owning a business.

View attachment 20956

So what's next? I really don't know. While exciting also nervous as I typically have a clear direction of what I would do next. I have some ideas but joined this forum to look at other business ideas.

Thanks for the welcome and thanks to MJ DeMarco for your books.
Love this.
 

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Hey MJ,

I could technically retire with this sale and my existing assets already, but entrepreneurship is like a disease and plan on never formally retiring. I like to think businesses are the adult version of LEGO. I've realized I'm great at being the visionary and I do execute well, but don't like when a business becomes mundane and needs much more people (sort of what your situation was). Having loads of employees sucks.....

My plans so far...
  • Six months of transition with the website.
  • My hosting business still exists and putting that on the selling block. Originally was going to in 2008 but decided to just let it ride. Hosting businesses have horrible multiples (1x TTM revenues) and decided to just let slowly die was the best approach. Now I never want to see it again! And want to clear house and start from scratch.
  • Shut down my existing company (for legal and legacy reasons)
  • Create a new company (even if it's not final on what I have plan to do next) so I can at least have a biz entity to work from and for legal and tax reasons.
  • Re-read your two books, plus other business books to get some new ideas (if anyone has suggestions of other books for biz ideas let me know).
  • I have a 2 year non-compete and think there's still some things can be executed better in the personal finance space, but must wait till the 2 year period. So it's gonna be hard for anything related to the personal finance space for now. I'll have to work on other verticals.
  • Create a personal brand. This was perhaps my biggest mistake in creating the Investor Junkie brand. I focused on the business brand yet didn't build my personal brand at the same time.
  • Take six months off (If I make it that long :)) after the six-month contract with the purchased firm.
  • Buy some domain names (already doing this) for some ideas I have.
  • Focus on a plan to generate income from my liquidity event and other existing assets for my "paycheck pot" as you call it.
I have some specific new biz ideas but don't want to discuss them yet. I don't think they are fully jelled and don't want to publicly commit on a forum these ideas. At least not yet.

I also may not want do any of them and go off in a completely different direction. Not sure yet and that is my dilemma (yea I know first world problems).

The question I have for you MJ and others in my situation is what did you do next?

Since you obviously went through this period MJ you have the unique privilege as well.

Did you have a period of unknowing what you wanted to do next? Or did you know that this site and books were always in the cards?

I joined this site to at least seek other like-minded individuals and see what ideas others are working on to help perhaps stir my creative juices as well.

Also I have loads of online experience, investment experience and a talent stack of writing, tech guru, SEO, SEM, and affiliate marketing. Seeing if I could help anyone who needs help in those areas.

Thanks.
This post is so authentic that I can tell from this simple message that you are the real deal.
 

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So I sold a company back in October, and am just working through the balance of my engagement with the new owners. While the money was OK, it was not "game over money."

The next business I build will be legacy money. Legacy in terms of how I can make the world a better place with it, and how I can have something significant to leave to future generations. We're way too young to take much more than 6 months off (good luck... you won't make it a month). I have several irons in the fire already.

When @biophase started building his current business, he realized he could scale MUCH faster due to his existing war scars.

I just cut the check for my first investment in a new venture, and that check equals what I spent the entire first year on the business I built and sold. I get to cut the corners and accelerate into a bigger build.

Congrats on your sale. Take some time to have fun and drive the car... then sell the car and go build again. This time, make it permanent.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Some great responses here, thread upgraded to GOLD.

The question I have for you MJ and others in my situation is what did you do next?

Since you obviously went through this period MJ you have the unique privilege as well.
I viewed it as an opportunity to pursue passions and projects with money as a secondary consideration.

When money is taken care of, you can truly "follow your passion" without respect to market dynamics. (Is there a need? How do I monetize? etc.)

I've always wanted to write. So I started writing on financial independence because financial independence was giving me the opportunity to write what I WANTED, not what the market necessarily wanted. Plus, having a message that I was passionate about and truly feeling that it needed to be heard also contributed, hence, the evolution of this forum.

Freedom from debt and bills gives you some latitude to take bigger risks (and accept less profit if need be) on things that are more important to YOU, rather than the market.

What you do next REALLY depends on how you see yourself in 1 year, 5, and 10.

If want to own a private jet, you're going to have to rinse and repeat.
 
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lludwig

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What you do next REALLY depends on how you see yourself in 1 year, 5, and 10.

If want to own a private jet, you're going to have to rinse and repeat.
I don't really know what I want next is the biggest question. I still need some soul searching on this. I haven't seen a problem that I want to solve. What I'm trying to do more of is forget about any real or preconceived limits I may think I have.

"What problem could I solve if I had no limits?" Is the question I keep asking.

It isn't so much the money other than keeping score. I mean I've even considered maybe I'll get some VC and using someone else's money to build something much bigger than I could do myself. But would I be happy? I don't know as on one hand, it would be challenging. Yet I would get more into operations would have to deal with more employees.
 
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biophase

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I don't really know what I want next is the biggest question. I still need some soul searching on this. I haven't seen a problem that I want to solve. What I'm trying to do more of is forget about any real or preconceived limits I may think I have.

"What problem could I solve if I had no limits?" Is the question I keep asking.

It isn't so much the money other than keeping score. I mean I've even considered maybe I'll get some VC and using someone else's money to build something much bigger than I could do myself. But would I be happy? I don't know as on one hand, it would be challenging. Yet I would get more into operations would have to deal with more employees.
I don’t think the right question is what problem should i solve next.

It’s what do I want to do? It doesn’t have to solve a problem. You could want to build boats or end tables.
 

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Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your sale @lludwig.

I love your quote about entrepreneurship as LEGO for adults, haha. I think a true entrepreneur never retires. Always finding joy in creating new ventures.


On what to do next...

Take your time, this is a good opportunity to search for something meaningful. Some questions that can help you in your quest:

What kind of emotions do you want in your life and what kind of things/activities will provide you with that emotions?

What is your purpose? What do you like people would say about you on your burial? What is your cause? (the thing that drives you mad and you would like to change in the world -for better)

What are your limits? What activities could help you expand those limits?


On what books to read...

Along with MJ books, I've enjoyed a lot lately How to get rich from Felix Dennis. A very honest book imo that has given me a new perspective on the pursuit of riches (and the perils of it).

---

@Kung Fu Steve, maybe this shows an opportunity to launch a coaching program to help people who have reached all their goals and now don't know what to do with their lives :D
 

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