How to Learn Code, Start a Web Company, $15k+ per month within 9 months

[Denim Chicken]

Guys first of my videos with how to get into this stuff...

This is just a quick run down on how to buy a theme and get it up and running. Let me know if you guys have any feedback etc. I will start a new thread on this soon (showing techniques, building stuff, hosting etc)

Appreciate you taking the time to do this, will check it out!

 

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[Fox]

We can probably safely say that his tagline and use of numbers encouraged many members to follow his advice. This might lead to an influx of overpriced, poor designers who just want to make the advertised "15K / month". There are already a lot of service based businesses with this mentality, which is a shame. @Fox

First page on this thread:

*** Disclaimer ***

While $15k+ a month (sales) might sound like a lot its not really. Its enough. Enough to invest in my real businesses and cover my basic living costs. Not every month is clean profit. I reinvest a lot of money into education, design and growing. Things go wrong and learning from scratch is hard work. Some jobs run overtime, some things I have to do twice, or three times or more.

I am not sipping cocktails on some beach while I go code once or twice a week on a hammock.
I am sleeping on a mattress with a desk, white boards and notepads in the corner. I code 8 - 10 hours a day and also spend half the morning at Uni trying to learn Spanish.

This is a crash course on entrepreneurship while you earn money. You have to learn to sell, cold call, manage, outsource, and so on. Everyday.
Coding websites is time intensive by nature.

If you are looking for easy money this probably isn't it. If you are looking to learn about business really fast though while funding and learning how to grow your own business this is excellent. Maybe in a few more months it will be more smooth but everyday right now is a full on grind. I love it though and have seen huge growth in a short time but its not for everyone.

Just want to add that in before someone thinks this is some overnight hack plan.

 

[Fox]

I don't know if this is true and I googled it but couldn't find it. My brother told me this story when I was younger and I loved it. I t stuck with in my mind for a long time...


*********

A guy walks into Colgate one day and asks to speak to the CEO. He says he has a way that he can increase profits 20% every year.
They call a meeting of all the top company heads and prepare to hear what this guy has to say.
But he tells them he wants a million dollar guarantee first for the advice he is about to give.
They tell him its too much and they need time to think about it. He leaves and tells them to call him when he is ready.

The team sit down and try to think of what he knows that they don't. They go through their marketing, sales, distribution, ingredients, corporate structure. Nothing. They can see where the value can be added.

They call him back in and promise to give him one million dollars if his idea works. He says okay and signs the contract.

He walks up to the whiteboard and draws one small circle - "this is the size of your tube now" referring to where the toothpaste comes out of the tube. he now draws a bigger circle "you need to make it this size".

They are stunned, people will use more toothpaste and faster meaning more sales. The idea is put into use and immediately profits go up.
The man becomes a millionaire overnight for drawing two circles.

Colgate makes millions, he takes a small share, everyone wins.

**********

Its only a story but it does create a point. You can live in a world where you add huge value with simple actions or you can work long hard hours and make similar to the rest of the crowd. This isn't to attack anyone but to show the power of mindset.

 

[sector7]

I don't know if this is true and I googled it but couldn't find it. My brother told me this story when I was younger and I loved it. I t stuck with in my mind for a long time...


*********

A guy walks into Colgate one day and asks to speak to the CEO. He says he has a way that he can increase profits 20% every year.
They call a meeting of all the top company heads and prepare to hear what this guy has to say.
But he tells them he wants a million dollar guarantee first for the advice he is about to give.
They tell him its too much and they need time to think about it. He leaves and tells them to call him when he is ready.

The team sit down and try to think of what he knows that they don't. They go through their marketing, sales, distribution, ingredients, corporate structure. Nothing. They can see where the value can be added.

They call him back in and promise to give him one million dollars if his idea works. He says okay and signs the contract.

He walks up to the whiteboard and draws one small circle - "this is the size of your tube now" referring to where the toothpaste comes out of the tube. he now draws a bigger circle "you need to make it this size".

They are stunned, people will use more toothpaste and faster meaning more sales. The idea is put into use and immediately profits go up.
The man becomes a millionaire overnight for drawing two circles.

Colgate makes millions, he takes a small share, everyone wins.

**********

Its only a story but it does create a point. You can live in a world where you add huge value with simple actions or you can work long hard hours and make similar to the rest of the crowd. This isn't to attack anyone but to show the power of mindset.

I know of a similar story (which some might think contradicts with a few of the points I made, but I don't have an ego problem ):

A guy was having car troubles. His motor made a really loud noise and the car kept stalling. He took the car to 5 different mechanics and none of them were able to fix it. Finally, he decides to go to an expert in that particular motor.

A guy in a white coat, clean and professional comes out to look at his car. He takes a small screwdriver out of the coat's front pocket, places it gently on top of a screw, loosens the screw a little and then tells the guy to go start the engine.

Surprisingly, the engine starts running without any issues! The guy is shocked and can't believe that a simple screw was causing all the problems!

He thanks the expert and asks him how much it will cost him.

The expert replies back:

Expert: That will be $100.

Customer: What?! All you did was loosen a screw! It took you 30 seconds to fix my problem! How could you charge me so much?!"

Expert: No no no, loosening the screw costs only $1. Knowing where to put the screwdriver costs $99.

Moral of the story: well you already know the moral

When you are an expert at something, you can certainly charge a premium price. But experts are rare and hard to find. Sales guys or amateurs pretending to be experts are not as rare We can all list countless examples of people who do this and thrive in business and in life. I don't know Fox at all so this is not a personal attack, and I am glad he saw that from my original post. I have no reason at all to think that he is not authentic, but chances are high many of the readers following his advice are not.

 

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[devine]

I'd be curious to know when you find a fastlane customer willing to pay your rates.

Shortcuts seeking wantrepreneurs consider websites being expenses.
Real fastlaners consider their websites their assets. Sometimes their best assets.

a) "People like" me? Do we know each other from somewhere? Do you know anything about the quality of my work?

You comment on works you haven't seen, making bold and devaluing statements. So look here, it just worked both ways.

But that's not my point actually. I can easily picture the quality of your work, because I hire designers/developers and manage/supervise their work for big companies, it's my job to know who to interview and who not to interview within 5 seconds, because we get thousands of inquiries and offers every month. Safe to say I can have a quite accurate picture about one's competency from 1 sentence of text, because otherwise it would take forever to find a right specialist.

Trust me, no skilled specialist could possibly come up with statements like you just made, not on this planet. Think why for a minute.

b) A logo can cost anywhere from $5 to $500k+ and can look exactly the same. Both vectorized, both professional and both equally liked by the customer. Big corporations with large budgets have no problem with spending lots of money on one. Business owners who work hard for their money on the other hand, know that they have better uses for their money.

What's the difference between Begum, Bodoni, Didot and Zahrah for high fashion brand logo?
The comprehension you might have here determines how accurate the phrase "look exactly the same" is.

These are not criteria for logo actually. Logo cannot cost less than a few thousands for a simple reason: anyone with enough understanding of cognitive psychology, as well as ability to implement it into web design, charges much more than that.
Logotype quality is not in its visual appeal, it's about impact. I've seen many pretty logos, but I haven't seen many logos that make any difference. They are often just a waste of space.

And yes, there are situations in which logotype doesn't matter at all.

This is what Fox and everyone following his steps are doing. Surely they are not professional designers after a few months of online tutorials and landing some clients. I'd be interested to hear if Fox considers himself a professional designer or an amateur. Did you read this topic at all? What you listed is what Fox recommends.

I consider this thread very false-promising, but that's what its intent is: just start.
I can create a thread with 30 pages of my own posts about complications and difficulties about working in web industry, which will reduce the number of people wanting to make fortune in this industry by 99.99%.
On the other hand, it's better to give some practical advice like Fox did in his thread, which is why this thread is gold now. Not because it says that you can start making $15k/month in 9 months.
I read this thread a lot and it has a lot of value in it.

Why is that a more appropriate comparison? Only people who pay that much are celebrities or people who make money from their appearance. The reason why it's so expensive is because the process has to be done for each tooth individually and the materials are expensive. Most people don't get veneers for every single tooth in their mouth. To answer your question, I think very few people are willing to pay that much. Besides, just because someone is willing to pay a lot for something, does not mean it's worth that much.

You just answered your own question: if a website doesn't make you a significant part of profits: there is no point for you to invest much into it.
Your website is ultimately your image on the internet. On the internet you have a tenth of a second to form a right impression, or your prospect is gone.

Can you afford to form a wrong impression?

How much will it cost you?
Usually more than you can imagine.

Depends on what it is. If it was something as simple as creating a new, nice looking website, a few thousand dollars seems fair. If it means getting a new 3D printer to help with the high demand of my business, then I'd be willing to pay a lot more. It's as if I asked you how much are you willing to pay to be able to speak a new language fluently in 6 months? The price range for this can be anywhere from free up to tens of thousands of dollars. The final outcome would be the same.

Here you miss the whole point:
When it comes to websites, there is no such thing as "new, nice looking website" and it's not by any means simple.
This, again, is not a criteria of value for a website. Open awwwards.com and look through 20 pages of winning websites.
Majority of them worth dozens of thousands of dollars, but fail at delivering what they are created for.

As I said previously, a website is merely a paper: how much the content on this paper is worth? Not how much it costs, but how much it's worth?

A simple sentence written on a white canvas can be worth millions.
A poem-long writing with the most expensive graphics can be worth nothing.

I don't know why you guys always need to use exaggerated examples to prove a point. Big companies with big budgets treat their money differently, so this is irrelevant.

Well, I work with big companies, this topic doesn't look irrelevant to me.
Neither anyone who takes business seriously in 2016 can afford to think that it is. Even if you cannot afford an expensive website... just don't think any website will do the job.
What I write is logical, it's simple, but it's the opposite of what 99% of people do. And then they suffer.

I wasn't comparing that. Stop acting like a smart-a$$. The McDonald's analogy was used when I was discussing inflation.

Your inflation talk is completely irrelevant, I already explained why.
There is no risk of inflation as you imagine it.

Specialists? This topic is about making websites with HTML and CSS. Surely you can't be a "specialist" in that. Those are the basics of web design. Once you learn that, you can spend another 5 years to become a specialist in web design.

Really? Basics?
HTML is a structure of every website, people refine their efficiency at coding html every year. CSS is larger than life.
Using these "basics" efficiently is something I rarely see on the internet.

Here's a fine article on a very specific topic, responsive images: https://codepen.io/tigt/post/when-responsive-images-get-ugly
Which will give you... properly responsive images!

Maybe I should post examples of websites that have awful parallax? Ah, it will take forever to list them all.

HTML & CSS basics are instruments, not basics. They strongly correlate with web design and cannot be examined in isolation.

No web designer in his right might would guarantee that his website will bring positive results. If you find a good and honest designer, a $5k, $10k or $50k website will bring the same exact results.

Ahaha, please. If a web designer cannot gaurantee that his work will bring positive results, this web designer is a piece of rubbish. If you don't know the outcome of your work, you don't understand your work.
Competent and honest designer will tell straight how much time he can afford to allocate on $5k-10k projects. Because there is hell of a lot of things one cannot afford to do with such budget restrains.

Haha, sure. Usually the ones charging the most, are the biggest scammers. Not everybody is in it for money like you seem to be.

There are no scammers in this industry, as no one who charges a lot can get paid without justifying the price.
One simply does not walk into CEO's office and return with a bag full of money.

It's business. Everyone is in for money. It's not the Red Cross, people get paid for their work.
As you cannot book Metallica to play at your house for $10k, you cannot book a good specialist to work with you on some project that YOU want to make money off.
This is just a final degree of denial I can even imagine.

Ok, let's compare basic HTML and CSS to complex surgeries. Makes perfect sense! Web design can be learned in a few months (don't believe me? go read the original post). A surgeon spends a decade studying the subject and then his whole life practicing + studying it further. Not to mention the amount of responsibility and stress associated to the job.

Let's compare it with a website that offers good heart surgeries in a good clinic. Which otherwise thousands of people wouldn't even find out about and would eventually DIE, because they couldn't find one or because a website for such clinic looked not compeling enough.

I didn't make an anology between web design and surgery in my previous post though, I just pointed at how flawed your logic is.

Wasn't MJ's book a self published book? Seems to have done pretty well. You should give MJ some advice since you have everything figured out.

It was. As were thousands of other books that no one has even heard of.
Makes sense now?

And yeah, I would F*cking love to work with MJ on his new book, as I feel like I can bring value to it. It's just I'm not sure if it's realistic due to my schedule and MJ's plans about this book.

Again, read the original thread. Didn't Fox say that people can reach his level in 5 months? Do you think he performs brain surgeries and rocket simulations or what do you think he does other than what you listed there?

I don't think 99% of people will ever make these numbers, but it's not the point. Other 1% will achieve a lot, bringing value to other people and not taking advantage of them.
Read between the lines and you'll notice one significant thing: approach.

Approach your website like your business. Like it's your look, talk and status before your prospects on the internet.
Because this is what it effectively is.

Now, I literally almost died while writing this, didn't have such a strong pains in my head since forever, so I'll go have a sleep.
I hope at least someone will get at least a slightest insight from this message.

 

[devine]

Great kudos to @sector7 for handling it properly and writing valuable posts. It's actually a very decent behaviour.
I'll transfer 100 rep Fox has sent me and will double that from my rep bank.

 

[nitop]

seriously guys. , make as much money as possible , as fast as you can.. doing everything you can ..
this is not an ethics or econ class , so get the money the fastest way possible ... and when you have 50k-100k, jump headfast into building a real fastlane business ..

 

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[Jambla]

I like what you're doing. I had the same idea for my local area, there are so many bad websites for local businesses in my area. I understand about the value you create, from a consumer point of view I wont use a company with a poor website.

 

[leviathan]

I think the real reason prices were/are growing at abnormal rates today is because of the bigger fish. Their overcharging engages the inflation the most.
Apple sells an iPhone for $1000, a Mac for $3000. Would you say that this is dishonest overcharging? Microsoft does the same. Amazon's FDA cuts three quid for every item someone purchases from you. But is it overcharging? Everyone nowadays has an iPhone, some even have two or three.
It's equilibrium, Apple brought supply, the demand agreed on the price, and an equilibrium was made.

Overcharging didn't stop the fortune 500 companies from making billions and creating inflation in the process, on the conturary I think it's what made them great in the first place.

However, it's worth mentioning that the CEO's of most fortune 500 companies are avid philantropists. Maybe they too share sector7's sentiments(which are valid) and yearn to achieve a sort of "moral equilibrium" =)

 

[marx1984]

seriously guys. , make as much money as possible , as fast as you can.. doing everything you can ..
this is not an ethics or econ class , so get the money the fastest way possible

This isn't directed at fox, this is directed at you...

For some people, making an ethical living is more than getting rich (or a least as important).

If it was made legal, I wouldn't sell crack, for ethical reasons.

 

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[Fox]

Guys its win-win.

You don't have to trick anyone, you don't have to use high pressure sales - just do a great job, with great service, that adds value and everyone will be happy.

People are tired of poor service and companies that don't care. When you separate yourself from the rest you can price yourself as you wish. Not everyone has to buy at this price, and they definitely won't, but it only takes 20-40 clients a year to run a really successful profitable business. Its the same amount of work either way so you might as well work for those who you can add the most value too and in return also make the best margins.

 

[FastNAwesome]

Maybe someone knows a better way of doing this and or making some commission? Generally though I like to be pretty upfront about my costs and not drop dollars trying to pick up pennies.

How about getting a VPS or dedicated server where you can host multiple accounts, all white-labeled? That way, in my opinion, you'd add even further value for your clients. You could provide faster and better support. And probably better hosting too, as my guess is most are on some cheapest shared hosting possible.

I agree you shouldn't drop dollars to pick up pennies, but the only thing I see here dropped here is dollars being dropped as you refer them to other company. Unless...you feel that support you'd need to provide out weights the recurring income you'd get. But I've gotten a sense that you go for clients who really want to be hands-off about it, and let you "deal with it", in which case, dealing with your own server might be easier.

 

[devine]

It only takes 20-40 clients a year to run a really successful profitable business.

It only takes 20-40 clients a year to run a really successful profitable business.

It only takes 20-40 clients a year to run a really successful profitable business.

It only takes 20-40 clients a year to run a really successful profitable business.

Guys, re-read it until it clicks.

20 clients a year.

It means you can afford to spend only 20% (reference to reversed 20/10/70 principle of successful entrepreneurship) of your business time actually working on projects.
Other time can be invested into impoving at what you do, which will make you escape the competition very fast.

Tailor your craft towards a specific niche, make it as beneficial to a specific set of clients as possible. Work with a specific type of businesses.
This will allow you to close deals at insane rate of success.

Focus on 20 clients you can really help and you will be successful.

 

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[Andy Black]

I have about a dozen clients. My revenue is less than when I was an IT Contractor, but it's a very different type of revenue. I don't have to go on client sites anymore. I can outsource and build a team. I can build my own IP and processes and think about scaling.


These are worth listening to:

• www.tropicalmba.com/1000-true-fans-100-true-customers-or-10-true-clients
• www.tropicalmba.com/10trueclients

 

[QueueQueue]

Fox, how do you currently present your business? Do you run under a company name, or is your marketing focused more around you as an independent contractor?

 

[Fox]

Fox, how do you currently present your business? Do you run under a company name, or is your marketing focused more around you as an independent contractor?

It's a LTD company registered in Canada. I have a brand name for the website and then an actual registered business name for invoices etc. Get a good accountant and follow their advice once you do a few jobs and it gets a little larger. Just get going with cash work at first though and don't get stuck on company names, logos etc. No one uses my company website, it's all cold calls, referrals and networking.

 

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[Denim Chicken]

Saw this on the fb group and wanted to share some of my input on this board. Fox made a great 9 min feedback video, amazing! Its a fb video so couldnt upload it here.

"Hey guys and girls,

May I ask for your feedback for the following website?
It's for a german law firm and I plan to give it away to them for free since I want to build up some reputation in the law firm / lawyer niche. Could probably end up in some referrals, too.

Here you go: http://kundenzugang5.snowwhite-solutions.de/

Some informations:
- it's pure HTML / CSS / (some JS), no WordPress used
- Images are from their old website, unsplash.com and some were taken by myself
- Improved the pagespeed through the optimization of images, HTML and CSS files and by activating compression (deflate) and browser caching

Thanks for your time and have a nice day!

- Chris"​

One of the first things that stands out to me is typography. Correct typography and pictures goes a very long way in design.
My personal opinion is the font type is not correct, as well as the sizing mentioned by Fox. Law firms are generally a bit more professional and require serif fonts, unless they specifically requested a modern, casual look.

You can also kind of tell based on their old website that they have had professionals come in to do their branding and letterhead as well as photos. I would suggest trying to retain as much as possible the essence of their brand because especially if a company is established, there are already clients that align and recognize their brand. All their swag, print materials, business cards, letter head (lawyers use lots and they already have printed their logo and branding package on thousands of paper) are all branded with their current logo, color choices, etc.

First rule when revamping branding material usually is, don't damage their existing one. You dont want to obligate them to change other things and cost them money, they would be more inclined to refuse your work if they have to change all their stuff.
I would keep their original logo, as well as retain a similar serif font for the website. Their original logo is good.

And agreeing with Fox, I'd probably change your site from black/white to their original color scheme or a derivative of it. Color doesn't have to be bright and in your face, it can be accents. The background can be the light beige they had, with the navbar a charcoal color (try color code [HASHTAG]#404040[/HASHTAG]) and their original pink logo.
I haven't messed around with it so it's all in my head, you can adjust to your liking so it flows well.


I might also center align the nav (not the sticky nav) because it looks a little off.
Also the footer would nicer would 3 solid columns instead of the 4 you see. Right now its THREE col-4 and within the last column it's divided again into col-6 and col-6. My personal preference would be to just make it one column in the last one and put both branches vertically?
Your choice though, not a big deal.

Pictures could be brighter I think. My personal preference for the main slideshow above the fold is not to put the outside building. I usually hate outside of buildings, it's so impersonal and speaks like "we are located in this giant building, we're big time". I prefer the inside and maybe would prefer their picture with the sign of their name and white background. The first picture in their gallery in their old website.

Then you can delete the header and put a tagline instead on top that says exactly what they stand for, found in their about us or value proposition somewhere.

Anyway just my personal input, hope it helps in some way.

 

[Fox]

Good feedback, I will start uploading these feedback videos here too (with peoples approval).

Working on a proper desktop mic and webcam set up today if possible. I want to up the production on these videos so they are more fun and enjoyable to watch. If anyone has some experience with setting up a good home podcast/streaming set up let me know.

 

[devine]

Saw this on the fb group and wanted to share some of my input on this board. Fox made a great 9 min feedback video, amazing! Its a fb video so couldnt upload it here.

"Hey guys and girls,

May I ask for your feedback for the following website?
It's for a german law firm and I plan to give it away to them for free since I want to build up some reputation in the law firm / lawyer niche. Could probably end up in some referrals, too.

Here you go: http://kundenzugang5.snowwhite-solutions.de/

Some informations:
- it's pure HTML / CSS / (some JS), no WordPress used
- Images are from their old website, unsplash.com and some were taken by myself
- Improved the pagespeed through the optimization of images, HTML and CSS files and by activating compression (deflate) and browser caching

Thanks for your time and have a nice day!

- Chris"​

One of the first things that stands out to me is typography. Correct typography and pictures goes a very long way in design.
My personal opinion is the font type is not correct, as well as the sizing mentioned by Fox. Law firms are generally a bit more professional and require serif fonts, unless they specifically requested a modern, casual look.

You can also kind of tell based on their old website that they have had professionals come in to do their branding and letterhead as well as photos. I would suggest trying to retain as much as possible the essence of their brand because especially if a company is established, there are already clients that align and recognize their brand. All their swag, print materials, business cards, letter head (lawyers use lots and they already have printed their logo and branding package on thousands of paper) are all branded with their current logo, color choices, etc.

First rule when revamping branding material usually is, don't damage their existing one. You dont want to obligate them to change other things and cost them money, they would be more inclined to refuse your work if they have to change all their stuff.
I would keep their original logo, as well as retain a similar serif font for the website. Their original logo is good.

And agreeing with Fox, I'd probably change your site from black/white to their original color scheme or a derivative of it. Color doesn't have to be bright and in your face, it can be accents. The background can be the light beige they had, with the navbar a charcoal color (try color code [HASHTAG]#404040[/HASHTAG]) and their original pink logo.
I haven't messed around with it so it's all in my head, you can adjust to your liking so it flows well.


I might also center align the nav (not the sticky nav) because it looks a little off.
Also the footer would nicer would 3 solid columns instead of the 4 you see. Right now its THREE col-4 and within the last column it's divided again into col-6 and col-6. My personal preference would be to just make it one column in the last one and put both branches vertically?
Your choice though, not a big deal.

Pictures could be brighter I think. My personal preference for the main slideshow above the fold is not to put the outside building. I usually hate outside of buildings, it's so impersonal and speaks like "we are located in this giant building, we're big time". I prefer the inside and maybe would prefer their picture with the sign of their name and white background. The first picture in their gallery in their old website.

Then you can delete the header and put a tagline instead on top that says exactly what they stand for, found in their about us or value proposition somewhere.

Anyway just my personal input, hope it helps in some way.

The only problem with this website is that it's generally useless. Better font work and design in general is nothing but polishing a turd in this situation. It's just approached the wrong way.

Do they really need a logo? Menu? Generic highlights? Half-arsed team section? 3 CTA's? 1-mile-long footer?

 

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[Denim Chicken]

The only problem with this website is that it's generally useless. Better font work and design in general is nothing but polishing a turd in this situation. It's just approached the wrong way.

Do they really need a logo? Menu? Generic highlights? Half-arsed team section? 3 CTA's? 1-mile-long footer?

If it was up to me, I would redesign a lot more but for someone who is working on this as their first site, you gotta start somewhere. Itll help them with html and css.

 

[lifeNchoices]

I'm new here have been lurking for a few days. This is very inspiring. I myself run an IT company, I do pretty well, but I have to have customers with $$$$$ to work as i work in high end Cisco Engineering. I've been thinking about an SaaS company for a while and over the past year I have started to learn HTML/CSS/JS/NODE.js. However after meeting with other guys who have run SaaS companies it looks like its best to build you way up to your SaaS service. Running into this thread has provided me with the perfect launch pad to get my web game going. I hope to start soon in the mean time I'll be brushing up on my HTML/CSS and will build 6 sites on my own and see how they stack against the competition.



Thanks

 

[SuperDuper]

It's a LTD company registered in Canada. I have a brand name for the website and then an actual registered business name for invoices etc. Get a good accountant and follow their advice once you do a few jobs and it gets a little larger. Just get going with cash work at first though and don't get stuck on company names, logos etc. No one uses my company website, it's all cold calls, referrals and networking.

So how did you take payments before you registered your business? Do you just use paypal or something?

 

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[splok]

The amount you charge for a very simple website ($12k in your example above) is how much I charge for a complex Android + iOS app.

This whole discussion was based on the above statement, but what keeps apps from being in exactly the same place as websites? I can buy a Wordpress theme for $25, but I can also buy the source code for an app for $25. What makes your work worth more? I assume it's better and would be customized for my needs. I have some friends working for an successful app dev company that won't touch a project under $100k. Should I assume that their work is better than yours or that they're just ripping people off? Or maybe there's another option?

Sometimes different markets pay different prices for different things. Someone who's primary concern is budget is a very different customer than one who cares about trust, comfort, speed, or simply spending less time worrying about it. For some people, being able to quickly say "here's what I want, go do it" and then forget about it with the confidence that it will get done well and on time is worth a LOT.

Just food for thought: If you changed your target market and sales pitch, you might be able to charge 10-20x for your apps...

 

[Paul Thomas]

This thread is awesome - almost through 23 pages.

In any of your experience have you seen this "model" viable as a side business while working a 9-6 "slowlane"? If and when it picks up the goal could be to switch over completely (and make more) as to manage your time once you get efficient and start value-based pricing. So you'd need to work early mornings, nights and weekends.

At face value it seems very doable. But, in reality, is this or is this not the model to do that with?

Thanks!

 

[DogsBreakfast]

I haven't finished the udemy course yet but I found a dogshit website that was ranked #1 in my town, and contacted him by email 2 days ago offering a free website redesign. Called him up yesterday and it went pretty well, but I definitely need to improve on the phone.

Said I would send some designs in a few days for him to choose from and start building a website for him.

He mentioned on the phone he has 10 businesses and recently took over this business and was going to look for a webdesigner. Also I can use his website to boost mine once I make one.

huge thanks to fox and everyone on this forum will update how it goes.

Haven't gotten through this entire thread yet but saw this questions somewhere. If you want to add a passive income to this business you can offer a monthly fee to maintain the website including backups for security and support etc.

 

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[Fox]

This thread is awesome - almost through 23 pages.

In any of your experience have you seen this "model" viable as a side business while working a 9-6 "slowlane"? If and when it picks up the goal could be to switch over completely (and make more) as to manage your time once you get efficient and start value-based pricing. So you'd need to work early mornings, nights and weekends.

At face value it seems very doable. But, in reality, is this or is this not the model to do that with?

Thanks!

I got some students who are working this around a day job and they are doing great. It is definitely possible.

 

[Fox]

Haven't gotten through this entire thread yet but saw this questions somewhere. If you want to add a passive income to this business you can offer a monthly fee to maintain the website including backups for security and support etc.

Thanks. Yes there is a lot of different options; updates, adwords, maintenance, blog posts, and many others. In my experience most of the money is made on the initial sale so I stick to that but there is lots of different ways to do this.

Let us know how that sale goes.

 

[Fox]

After reading numerous articles on FB groups I have changed the name and url to make it easier to find for those interested.

New link...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/makemoneywithwebdesign

 

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[Paul Thomas]

As a reference point - is this something you would say needs updating/revision?

http://www.ueso.org/

My thought is that one could use revision, while the below is fine and wouldn't need an update?

http://drmichellekatz.com/

Sorry if this type of thing has been asked a lot, just curious to get some reference point for things on the edge - some websites are obvious in need of revamp.

 

[daivey]

Sector, you had some good points, but you also missed out on a lot of things. You're not looking at the overall value.

Here's an example.

Sector7 web design company... They will charge you $5,000 and build you a nice website.

OP web designed company.... They will charge $10,000, they will build you a nice website. They will answer their phone when you call on the first ring. They will respond to every single question. They will hold your hand through the entire process.

The problem with your post and your idea is that you think that website=website... But you're looking at the wrong thing.

the OP isn't just selling websites.. he is selling an online business plan.

you on the other hand are selling just websites.... and you market yourself as a website seller.

So that's the fundamental difference. This is the same arugment you will have with clients all the time to win business... "but so and so does it cheaper, why should I buy from you?"... because so and so, doesn't answer his god damn phone when you call... so and so doesn't spend 3 hours walking you through how to use it... because so and so won't hold your hand.

anyway, you're a smart guy... but you need to learn to apply your logic..

why does a BMW cost more than a Honda??? They both take you from point A to point B.

First, I want to start by thanking you for taking your time to provide so much information. There's something for everyone to learn in this topic, no matter what business they run.

Please do not take what I am about to say the wrong way. It is only my own personal opinion and my opinions are rarely "politically correct" but they are not meant to insult anyone.

I run a web / app development and design company in the U.S. My goal is not only to offer value to my customers but also to give them a great deal. The amount you charge for a very simple website ($12k in your example above) is how much I charge for a complex Android + iOS app. How do you justify charging $4800 for some basic "programming" in CSS and HTML (which are not programming languages actually and can be learned in a couple of weeks just like you said)? How can you charge $1200 for graphic elements and a logo? I am very curious to see one of these websites you have done.

I think the approach of charging based on the value you bring to a company is wrong and leads to inflation. What if every single business charged by that model? Can you imagine what would happen to prices?

Imagine going to the dental hygienist to get your teeth whitened before an interview for a modeling job. The teeth whitening helps you land that job and you end up making $100k a year. Let's just assume that if you had yellow teeth, you would not have gotten the modeling job. Would you be willing to pay $20k (20% of the yearly salary of your new job) to get your teeth whitened?

Imagine you have problems with your prostate so you start eating pumpkin seeds (good for your prostate) which helps you cure your problem within a couple of months. Would you be willing to then pay thousands of dollars for those pumpkin seeds that potentially saved your life even though you can buy them from other places for $5 a pound or find cheaper alternatives that result in the same outcome?

Imagine you need to fly to China and sign a $100k contract. Would you be willing to pay $20 000 for the plane ticket to your destination if it meant getting to contract?

The same applies to people who think that minimum wage should be increased. What do you think will happen to prices overall if a McDonalds employee starts making $15 an hour? Everything else will become more expensive as well, so the minimum wage increase is mostly an illusion.

Came from the dentist the other day and was charged $1400 for two hours of work. When that dentist had to pay $20k for his new website, he's going to charge $700 an hour to compensate for that. When he knows that a Burger King worker who never finished high school makes $15 an hour, he'll bump his prices accordingly. This is happening everywhere around us, but seems like few are aware of it.

Just because your website brings 10 new clients for that particular business, does not mean you need to charge him extra for that. Many other web design companies create the same websites like you do and bring the same amount of clients + "value" to your customer, but charge a fraction of the cost. You could say that they are stupid or you could say that they are fair. Depends on how you view it.

I understand that most of us on this forum consider ourselves smarter than the "stupid and naive slowlaners", but we should never go down to the level of taking advantage of people and we should think thoroughly about this since sometimes we are not aware of what we're doing. Better to be an honest slowlaner than a crooked fastlaner. One thing I notice repeatedly on this forum is that many members do not grasp the concept that a world without slowlaners would be hell on Earth. We should wake up every single morning and thank God (or whatever you believe in) for slowlaners because without them, the fastlane model would not work. Without people willing to work their whole lives and do repeated tasks for very little money, without people who don't dream of retiring at 30 and then just enjoying life, without people who devote their whole lives to improving the lives of others and not expecting monetary rewards, without all the scientists, authors, mathematicians, inventors, engineers who make incredible discoveries and don't even patent their work or ask for any sort of recognition, this world would not function. These are the true heroes.

These are the people who's value goes unnoticed. Not some "smartass" who builds a new social media app and becomes a millionaire by 20. Not someone who takes advantage of people's ignorance. Not some salesman who bothers hundreds of people each day to sell them something they don't want and lands a couple of clients that don't know any better (not referring to you, but I'm sure you're aware that most salesman do this - I could go on a tangent about how impolite, rude, obnoxious and annoying it is to disturb hundreds of people to sell your service to them, but I'm not going to).

I am not here to argue with anyone, but am simply presenting a different perspective. Charging $12k for such a basic website means taking advantage in my book, no matter what "value" you bring to the client. Would be fun to compare our work in private @Fox and see if the $10k difference in price truly reflects on the value each of us brings to our customers. Sure, one could argue that I am undercharging my clients, but I would not be able to sleep at night if I charged them that amount for a simple WordPress website and some content, which any high school student can learn to do after a few months of practice.

This is why I think a SAAS business model is the best for a web based fastlane business. This way, you are not charging your clients much, but it's the volume that makes you money. I'd recommend the web development and design business as a means to learn new things, put money aside and focus on a fastlane business on the side. The development / design business is a job. The only way you can make it not be a job is to charge ridiculous amounts of money and make others do the work for you for very little money.

Let us not take advantage of people's ignorance. There is a right price for everything and an inflated price. Both add the same amount of value, but are both fair? That's for each of us to decide.

If you have something rude to say to me, I'd appreciate it if you could do it through a private message. I do not wish to turn this great topic into a mess.