Hiring SEO specialist

[e_fastlane]

Where are you guys finding quality SEO and web designers.

I currently have a healthy business, but it relies mostly on paid advertisement. Our website is overall pretty good and converts good, but it is not SEO optimized at all. We have fluctuated anywhere from 2nd to 8th page for our main keywords. The sad part is the competition really isn't high for our keywords since we provide a niche product.

So that goes back to my initial question. Where can I find SEO specialists? I'm not talking about the link blasters, spammers etc...

Most large legitimate companies have a web designer and SEO specialist (maybe one in the same position), so there is a correct answer to my question. As a small business owner that has never formally hired anyone, I don't even know where to start looking.


P.S. Before anyone PM's me with their super L33T SEO package, unless you've got a verifiable and impressive resume, I will not pay a cent except for results. I have no problem paying $X,XXX+ for a guarantee into a 1st or 2nd spot. If you aren't confident enough in your skills to do that then don't PM trying to sell your packages.

 

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[Nick]

You will have a hard time finding a seo specialist because you make way too many wrong assumptions about what a seo specialist is and you do not understand very well how seo works.

First of all, seo specialist = total different from webdesign.

Second, you should understand there are no ranking guarantees for seo, no legit seo company can guarantee you 1st or 2nd place in google. That is not how the industry works. Can a lawyer guarantee that you will win a case? No, he does his best with the case, advise you, but in the end the judges decide. Similar with seo, you do the best you can with the website, but google decides in the end how to do the ranking. You can only improve your chances, no guarantees.

Also, seo specialists do not usually have resumes with past results, because they are irrelevant - websites rankings change all the time, someone might do some other work on the website after he left and get it penalized, etc..

Some advice:

Do not buy any predefined seo package.

You need someone to take a look at your website, see in which state it is, how is your competition, which keywords you want to rank for, which keywords you should try to rank for, and then formulate a strategy on how to implement and reach your goals.

Predefined seo packages are for people who know a little bit about the seo and can make a decision on what type of backlinks and how many they need for ranking. If you have no idea, do not go with any pre defined seo packages, as it is a gamble (most are ineffective anyway without a good strategy to back them up).

Second, there is a difference between getting to number 1-2 in google, and staying there. If you employ a seo specialist and you pay him x,xxx$ to get you to number 1, he can do that using certain short term techniques, show you that you are number 1, get the money, and then after a couple days/ weeks, you will fall from your position, because he did not use long term sustainable seo techniques, because his objectives are not aligned with yours.

Third, there is blackhat seo, and (mostly) whitehat seo. If you employ a seo specialist that uses blackhat techniques and gets your site penalized, the damage is virtually irreparable, because that domain will be permanently flagged by google, and it is very hard to lift a serious penalty on a domain - you may be forced to completely change your website domain if you want to rank again in google. This is something you should also be aware of.

Best course of action would be to follow the recommendation for a seo specialist by someone you trust who has used similar services with good success.

 

[crlerk]

How much SEO work have you done by yourself?
I do not think you should go out and hire someone if you do not know what they are supposed to fix.

If you have not done so; evaluate your site's SEO with free tools that are available.
Also I would suggest a trial account on SEOMoz since they have some solid tools.

And in regards to your question about design. There are of course people who do both, but most are specialized, or at least much better, in for example design but can work some SEO as well.
If you do not want to do any of the work yourself, ask a local web agency to give you an evaluation of your site and what they can do for you.

- Carl-Erik

 

[dochustle]

Like anything: LEARN THE BASICS.

If you are not educated your going to get ripped off. There are thousands of resources out there to learn the basics of SEO. Check out Seomoz.org, they have a great beginners guide.

There is no reason for you not to learn everything you can, implement what you learn, and than when you get stuck, ask for outside help.

Its like someone going into a used car dealership and not knowing anything about cars. They end up walking out with a 99' Honda that they paid 5000 dollars for. They way your message came across would be easy for someone selling there SEO services to smell out and take advantage of you.

DONT BE LAZY!

 

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[healthstatus]

hmmm, I will go against the grain here (stunner I know), you are actually doing what you need to do and put out questions to people who have used successful SEO companies. If you know your SEO isn't good, then you know the basics. Right now you can REALLY damage your efforts if you don't do it correctly and with the recent major updates there is a lot of bad information, things that were recommended in January and February of THIS year will get you hammered if you follow them.

SEOmoz is a good site with some good tools and information. Companies that rank well for the keywords SEO, site SEO, search engine optimization are probably pretty to good to look at, since it is super competitive and shows their chops. Ongoing SEO is expensive, in the $1k and up per month range, but treat this like a job interview, check references, and do lots of due diligence (don't just read the testimonials on the page) get emails of clients and ask hard questions. If the person you hire screws up, it is hard to get another chance. You need to hire an expert!

 

[splok]

Imagine that you need to go to a doctor but that there is no agency or organization that controls what a "doctor" is. Anyone can call themselves a doctor and prescribe whatever treatment they want. Now imagine that, for privacy reasons, you can never ask a doctor about his previous patients. The doctor can tell you the results ("he was deathly ill when he came in, but after a weekend, he was better than ever!"), but you can never verify them. However, imagine that you can speculate at the quality of the average doctor by looking around at people who've tried some of their remedies. Maybe you see a person or two, here and there, who were miraculously cured and vitalized! But that the majority weren't helped or got sicker, and that a decent chunk literally died from the treatment. Then you stop to consider, if the doctor knew how to make himself healthy, then he could use his gifts making himself really, really healthy... only he hasn't.

Welcome to the world of SEO "experts"

 

[e_fastlane]

hmmm, I will go against the grain here (stunner I know), you are actually doing what you need to do and put out questions to people who have used successful SEO companies. If you know your SEO isn't good, then you know the basics. Right now you can REALLY damage your efforts if you don't do it correctly and with the recent major updates there is a lot of bad information, things that were recommended in January and February of THIS year will get you hammered if you follow them.

SEOmoz is a good site with some good tools and information. Companies that rank well for the keywords SEO, site SEO, search engine optimization are probably pretty to good to look at, since it is super competitive and shows their chops. Ongoing SEO is expensive, in the $1k and up per month range, but treat this like a job interview, check references, and do lots of due diligence (don't just read the testimonials on the page) get emails of clients and ask hard questions. If the person you hire screws up, it is hard to get another chance. You need to hire an expert!

Thank you for reading and understanding what I was actually saying. I came here to see if there was any recommendations from people that already had success in hiring SEO specialists. I did have someone that helped my page rank to the end of the first page but that was before the newest updates, and I am not confident that he knows what to do anymore. Once I know that they can get me to the top, I have no problem paying much more than 1k per month if they can keep me there, so I am aware that it takes upkeep.

You will have a hard time finding a seo specialist because you make way too many wrong assumptions about what a seo specialist is and you do not understand very well how seo works.

First of all, seo specialist = total different from webdesign.

Second, you should understand there are no ranking guarantees for seo, no legit seo company can guarantee you 1st or 2nd place in google. That is not how the industry works. Can a lawyer guarantee that you will win a case? No, he does his best with the case, advise you, but in the end the judges decide. Similar with seo, you do the best you can with the website, but google decides in the end how to do the ranking. You can only improve your chances, no guarantees.

Also, seo specialists do not usually have resumes with past results, because they are irrelevant - websites rankings change all the time, someone might do some other work on the website after he left and get it penalized, etc..

Some advice:

Do not buy any predefined seo package.

You need someone to take a look at your website, see in which state it is, how is your competition, which keywords you want to rank for, which keywords you should try to rank for, and then formulate a strategy on how to implement and reach your goals.

Predefined seo packages are for people who know a little bit about the seo and can make a decision on what type of backlinks and how many they need for ranking. If you have no idea, do not go with any pre defined seo packages, as it is a gamble (most are ineffective anyway without a good strategy to back them up).

Second, there is a difference between getting to number 1-2 in google, and staying there. If you employ a seo specialist and you pay him x,xxx$ to get you to number 1, he can do that using certain short term techniques, show you that you are number 1, get the money, and then after a couple days/ weeks, you will fall from your position, because he did not use long term sustainable seo techniques, because his objectives are not aligned with yours.

Third, there is blackhat seo, and (mostly) whitehat seo. If you employ a seo specialist that uses blackhat techniques and gets your site penalized, the damage is virtually irreparable, because that domain will be permanently flagged by google, and it is very hard to lift a serious penalty on a domain - you may be forced to completely change your website domain if you want to rank again in google. This is something you should also be aware of.

Best course of action would be to follow the recommendation for a seo specialist by someone you trust who has used similar services with good success.

ACTUALLY, many lawyers are in the business by guaranteeing results or you pay nothing, so I'm not sure why you made that assumption. They obviously pick only the cases that they are confident they can win with their ability. If I had very highly competitive words, I would not expect anyone to guarantee results. I had a great system worked out with my last SEO guy. I would pay him for every page he advanced me, and then for every ranking on the first page. I don't want anyone working for free, I'm just not interested in someone that downloaded an ebook or read blackhatworld and is now a self-proclaimed expert.

Maybe we had a miscommunication about what a web designer is. In my eyes a web designer is someone that creates the website and optimizes it, its not just osmsone who downloads a template and adds some pictures. On-site SEO is a very big influencer for rankings, especially on less competitive words.

Imagine that you need to go to a doctor but that there is no agency or organization that controls what a "doctor" is. Anyone can call themselves a doctor and prescribe whatever treatment they want. Now imagine that, for privacy reasons, you can never ask a doctor about his previous patients. The doctor can tell you the results ("he was deathly ill when he came in, but after a weekend, he was better than ever!"), but you can never verify them. However, imagine that you can speculate at the quality of the average doctor by looking around at people who've tried some of their remedies. Maybe you see a person or two, here and there, who were miraculously cured and vitalized! But that the majority weren't helped or got sicker, and that a decent chunk literally died from the treatment. Then you stop to consider, if the doctor knew how to make himself healthy, then he could use his gifts making himself really, really healthy... only he hasn't.

Welcome to the world of SEO "experts"

I know that every 'seo' company is a self proclaimed expert, and I know about blackhatworld and all their temporary techniques. If I didn't, I would have just googled SEO and used the first person that came up... Thats why I came here to ask ...

Like anything: LEARN THE BASICS.

If you are not educated your going to get ripped off. There are thousands of resources out there to learn the basics of SEO. Check out Seomoz.org, they have a great beginners guide.

There is no reason for you not to learn everything you can, implement what you learn, and than when you get stuck, ask for outside help.

Its like someone going into a used car dealership and not knowing anything about cars. They end up walking out with a 99' Honda that they paid 5000 dollars for. They way your message came across would be easy for someone selling there SEO services to smell out and take advantage of you.

DONT BE LAZY!

I actually DO have extensive internet marketing experience, which is what my previous company was based on. SEO was never the focus but it was still a part of it. I know the basics. My website already makes money, and my lack of SEO is not laziness but rather a time issue. I personally have alot of other issues that require my individual attention. I am not in the business of SEO, thats why I'm looking for help on hiring someone that is. I don't get an accounting degree just so I can run my business. I focus on making money doing what I specialize in and make enough to hire an accountant to do the accounting.


I still wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer in my thread. I guess I was just a bit surprised I got jumped on so fast. I didn't come on here asking "how do I make money?", and it seems that you guys just assumed the worst. Even if I disagreed with what you said, your advice is still appreciated.

SO, now that I hopefully have cleared up what I meant. Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

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[splok]

Most large legitimate companies have a web designer and SEO specialist (maybe one in the same position), so there is a correct answer to my question

I guess I'm just saying that this isn't necessarily true. The fact that large, legitimate companies have a position or outsources that position does't do much to counter my skepticism. In fact, those can be the places where the less skilled people can be likely to thrive. I also wouldn't in any way assume seos working for large, legitimate companies are above black hat techniques. They probably have even more leeway since they're probably dealing with sites with much more authority and resilience than average.

If I didn't, I would have just googled SEO and used the first person that came up

Ironically, that may be the one way that you're guaranteed to hire an seo that can actually rank something

Ok, but recommendations (other than the above)... Make a connection (or ideally, already have one) with someone running a top ranking site in a very different. Find out if they used any external resources, and if so, ask for a recommendation. If that seems unfeasible for whatever reason, you could try contacting well respected members of seo/IM forums for either direct consulting or recommendations (though you'd still need to be quite good at sniffing out bullshit if going this route).

 

[The-J]

The law is more rigid than Google's search engine algorithms, so that's a bad analogy.

SEO is mainly about backlinks. It's about giving links and getting links from high-traffic and highly relevant Web sites. Optimizing text for certain keywords is just one small part of it and that part is getting smaller every single update.

This, however, doesn't mean you could just buy backlinks and expect front page. Spammy links are bad for rankings and can get you penalized by Google.

My opinion? Buying SEO is an absolute scam. Why? Cuz Google changes it up every six months. The ones who don't get hit badly are the market leaders who provide content that is the best in their niche. This is done on purpose.

Instead of working on SEO, work on building a brand. A brand that sticks in people's heads. A brand that appears on the biggest influencers both in your niche and in the 'mainstream web space'. This is something I'm personally having trouble with, but have essentially decided is the better strategy than wasting my time and money with SEO. The rankings will follow as you gain power in your niche.

 

[Nick]

You are very aggressive mate, and you send the vibe that you are suspicious of everyone here trying to rip you off, that's why it looks to you that "...I got jumped on so fast".

"I had a great system worked out with my last SEO guy. I would pay him for every page he advanced me, and then for every ranking on the first page."

That is so not a great system.

I think that your desire for easy accountability - see what ranking website is, pay certain money - stands in your way of choosing and employing a good seo specialist.

1.Find someone you trust

2.Follow his advice. He knows probably more about seo than you, so instead of insisting on these old concepts of yours - i want to see rankings on page x in order to pay- let him assess the situation and guide you to a successful strategy.

Maybe he will assess that extending your pool of long tail keywords to rank for is a better strategy for getting leads than top ranking for a certain keyword.

Maybe he will assess that an increase in a lower searches keyword ranking from position 3 to position 1 is more important than an increase in ranking from page 20 to page 4 for a higher searches keyword.

Etc..

If you want to follow the progress, here are 2 strategies better than your previous one:

1. Set up conversion goals in analytics, and follow how many people have filled your lead page/ placed an order coming from search engines

2. See the increase in traffic from search engines overall, regardless of particular rankings.

Not perfect, but overall better. Good luck.

 

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[e_fastlane]

You are very aggressive mate, and you send the vibe that you are suspicious of everyone here trying to rip you off, that's why it looks to you that "...I got jumped on so fast".

To be fair, Its not that I think everyone is here to rip me off, its that I know that every forums have these people. EVEN with my warning not to message me with SEO link building packages, I got two PM's trying to sell me some garbage. This isn't my first time on a forum, so I already know what to expect, and tried to fend off a PM box full of advertising.

"I had a great system worked out with my last SEO guy. I would pay him for every page he advanced me, and then for every ranking on the first page."

That is so not a great system.

I think that your desire for easy accountability - see what ranking website is, pay certain money - stands in your way of choosing and employing a good seo specialist.

1.Find someone you trust

2.Follow his advice. He knows probably more about seo than you, so instead of insisting on these old concepts of yours - i want to see rankings on page x in order to pay- let him assess the situation and guide you to a successful strategy.

Maybe he will assess that extending your pool of long tail keywords to rank for is a better strategy for getting leads than top ranking for a certain keyword.

Maybe he will assess that an increase in a lower searches keyword ranking from position 3 to position 1 is more important than an increase in ranking from page 20 to page 4 for a higher searches keyword.

Etc..

If you want to follow the progress, here are 2 strategies better than your previous one:

1. Set up conversion goals in analytics, and follow how many people have filled your lead page/ placed an order coming from search engines

2. See the increase in traffic from search engines overall, regardless of particular rankings.

Not perfect, but overall better. Good luck.

I believe this is great advice if I knew someone I could trust for SEO. The problem is I don't, which is what I tried to make clear in my post. Accountability replaced the fact that the person working for me has not built up trust. If I had someone I could trust about SEO, I would be asking them the questions and not random people on a forum! I do not believe I am expecting too much when I require accountability from someone that doesn't already have a built reputation.

I guess I posted on here to see if anyone reputable on here knew someone that did good work and could recommend them. I'm guessing the people that do have someone are not prone to divulging their diamond in the rough.

 

[MakeItHappen]

Like anything: LEARN THE BASICS.

If you are not educated your going to get ripped off.

I second that! I have quite some seo knowledge and a lot of the seo services that are offered are really not good some are even pretty bad or a total rip off. Learn the basics before you start investing into seo! It will safe you a lot of money and ultimately make you a lot of money.

 

[PatrickP]

To be fair, Its not that I think everyone is here to rip me off, its that I know that every forums have these people. EVEN with my warning not to message me with SEO link building packages, I got two PM's trying to sell me some garbage.

REALLY?


REALLY??

It is YOUR duty to report the PM to the MODs.

Do YOUR part to keep this a great forum.

 

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[joona]

I am doing SEO for Finnish clients (don't worry, I wont sell you anything). Here are few things from my perspective:

- Ask what is their approach to the task. What do they want to do first? And after that? etc. See if their approach makes any sense. Don't show that you know anything about SEO and see if the person is trying to scam you or something. That should be apparent based on their approach.
- Ask about their previous clients and what kind of results have they gotten. See if they mention any names/websites they have optimized. Quite often companies don't allow their names to be used as cases so if the SEO mentions any names ask for contact details so that you can check if the SEO was allowed to mention them as a client or not. Also, you can ask how their experience with the SEO has been. I never reveal the names of my clients.
- Few questions you want to hear from the SEO: How does your sales process go like? What are your most popular products/services? What are your most profitable products services? All these questions are needed by the SEO to set right priorities in their work. It also shows you, the client, that the SEO is serious about improving your business and doesn't just want to collect a check.

If the person answers all those questions in a good manner... then you should be pretty well covered.

Hope this helps at least a bit.

 

[jacob]

First you have to do when hiring especially for the first time is to ask referral from network of friends, colleagues and family. When hiring you should test the person first to determine his/her full potential to do work. There are also lots of freelancing sites where you hire SEO specialist like Elance.com and Guru.com. You could also try Staff.com where you could hire full time workers.

 

[DeletedUser397]

http://www.brightedge.com/

It's what our company uses. You will not be disappoint.

Nuff said

 

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[JAJT]

My 2 cents (I seem to keep a lot of paired pennies).

The problem is this:

I came here to see if there was any recommendations from people that already had success in hiring SEO specialists.

You came here to take, not give.

You have only 10 posts and 3 of them are threads you started asking for help. 6 of your other posts are in responses to your own threads asking for help. The last post is some tidbit about Russia.

SEO may be important, but not as important as learning to take only a fraction of what you give.

The silver lining here is that you have a business and likely have a TON of wisdom to share with this amazing community. If you share your wisdom and help others you won't even need to seek out assistance when you need it - it will fly to you like a magnet.

If you chase the cat, it will always run away. If you feed it, love it, change the litter, give it treats and time you won't be able to sit down for a second without it jumping on your lap.

 

[WalterBellhaven]

I agree with the suggestions to learn as much as you can on your own rather than hiring an SEO expert. Patrick Mackenzie, who makes a living selling bingo card software to grade school teachers mainly via SEO expertise, has an excellent article about why you shouldn't pay any SEO you can afford. SEOMoz is also a good resource, as several others have mentioned. Their beginner's guide to SEO is a great place to start.

You mentioned that you used to have an SEO guy, yet your pages are now no longer on the first page of Google results. Do you know why that happened? Did other people put out better content in your niche, or did your previous SEO guy use techniques that were penalized by Google? You might find that something as simple as making your URLs more descriptive can quickly take you to the top of the search results for a low-competition niche.

 

[Gravytrain]

Relying on SEO for traffic in today's post-Penguin world is somewhat pointless.

My suggestion would be to take the money that you were willing to pay the SEO for, and use it on a diverse array of traffic sources. AdWords, Bing/Yahoo Ads, Facebook Ads, display ads, links on relevant websites and forums, guest blog posts, sponsored reviews, sponsored Tweets, email lists, Craigslist ads, whatever.

Going with SEO is putting all of your eggs in one basket, and that's never a good idea.

And as Walter pointed out: there's loads you can learn on your own just by browsing a few relevant forums and blogs. I don't suggest that you handle this personally as you have FAR better things to be doing with your time, but at least you will know specifics that can help you avoid disaster should you choose to outsource.

 

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[JasonR]

Relying on SEO for traffic in today's post-Penguin world is somewhat pointless.

My suggestion would be to take the money that you were willing to pay the SEO for, and use it on a diverse array of traffic sources. AdWords, Bing/Yahoo Ads, Facebook Ads, display ads, links on relevant websites and forums, guest blog posts, sponsored reviews, sponsored Tweets, email lists, Craigslist ads, whatever.

Going with SEO is putting all of your eggs in one basket, and that's never a good idea.

And as Walter pointed out: there's loads you can learn on your own just by browsing a few relevant forums and blogs. I don't suggest that you handle this personally as you have FAR better things to be doing with your time, but at least you will know specifics that can help you avoid disaster should you choose to outsource.

I disagree with this first statement vehemently. Many sites have actually seen an increase in organic traffic in a post penguin world.

A few of the things you mentioned in your post are actually SEO/SEM. Guest blog posts, tweets, reviews, etc. are all a part of search engine marketing.

 

[CashFlowDepot]

I've had great luck hiring full time employees in the Philippines to do SEO work for me, including keyword rich article marketing, submitting to directories( for bank links), and other tasks. See Hire the best Filipino employees and virtual assistants the Philippines has to offer! --These are college grads who will work full time for $200 - $400 per month.

Keep in mind there are some things you need to do on your web site ( meta tags, h1 tags, alt descriptions, etc) but many things are done off the site that help with your SEO.

Make sure you have plenty of good content on the site too. The subject line needs to have a keyword phrase in it and it needs to be repeated in the body.

 

[kwerner]

Thanks for the link Jackie. I'm in the market for a VA for some of my upcoming projects. I outsource tasks from time to time on Mturks, but getting someone full-time would be the bees knees. =)

 

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[LTL]

You are better off getting an SEO consultant. I'll plug myself here. I'm more of a serial link builder though and sounds like your previous SEO guy was more into getting high pr links instead of highly relevant links. If you don't mind I'd like to take a look at your keywords, current website and discuss some key performance indicators with you. I won't charge you a lick either for a consultation.

 

[mtjr825]

It's not so much about SEO anymore. Your website needs to refresh consistently with amazing content or updates to rank in google. You may want to think about looking more into content and social media marketing strategies to improve your brand awareness and search results. Both strategies are time consuming and may take away from running your business and you should consider outsourcing this. My content marketing and social media marketing company does a great job with doing this and clients get great results. You should really look into it and it may work for you.

Hope you achieve your goals.

Thank you for reading and understanding what I was actually saying. I came here to see if there was any recommendations from people that already had success in hiring SEO specialists. I did have someone that helped my page rank to the end of the first page but that was before the newest updates, and I am not confident that he knows what to do anymore. Once I know that they can get me to the top, I have no problem paying much more than 1k per month if they can keep me there, so I am aware that it takes upkeep.




ACTUALLY, many lawyers are in the business by guaranteeing results or you pay nothing, so I'm not sure why you made that assumption. They obviously pick only the cases that they are confident they can win with their ability. If I had very highly competitive words, I would not expect anyone to guarantee results. I had a great system worked out with my last SEO guy. I would pay him for every page he advanced me, and then for every ranking on the first page. I don't want anyone working for free, I'm just not interested in someone that downloaded an ebook or read blackhatworld and is now a self-proclaimed expert.

Maybe we had a miscommunication about what a web designer is. In my eyes a web designer is someone that creates the website and optimizes it, its not just osmsone who downloads a template and adds some pictures. On-site SEO is a very big influencer for rankings, especially on less competitive words.




I know that every 'seo' company is a self proclaimed expert, and I know about blackhatworld and all their temporary techniques. If I didn't, I would have just googled SEO and used the first person that came up... Thats why I came here to ask ...







I actually DO have extensive internet marketing experience, which is what my previous company was based on. SEO was never the focus but it was still a part of it. I know the basics. My website already makes money, and my lack of SEO is not laziness but rather a time issue. I personally have alot of other issues that require my individual attention. I am not in the business of SEO, thats why I'm looking for help on hiring someone that is. I don't get an accounting degree just so I can run my business. I focus on making money doing what I specialize in and make enough to hire an accountant to do the accounting.


I still wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer in my thread. I guess I was just a bit surprised I got jumped on so fast. I didn't come on here asking "how do I make money?", and it seems that you guys just assumed the worst. Even if I disagreed with what you said, your advice is still appreciated.

SO, now that I hopefully have cleared up what I meant. Does anyone have any recommendations?